Porter Moser should be the guy

[shoothoops]

Well, I don't really care what you would rather. Saying "I don't like Moser" wouldn't be true. I don't like him as much as some others that are in the mix.

Also, I would 100% take Wardle over Wojo. I think Wardle is a superior coach to Wojo. So in December of last year, I would've taken Wardle over Wojo. But I'm basing my thoughts now on who we are showing interest in. Wojo is gone, so he's no longer the baseline, nor is Wardle.

Stay classy.

You keep saying December of last year. It was Dec 28, 2020, and there post days follow up in support of it.

You routinely pump up KenPom when it supports someone you prefer, and, dismiss it when it doesn't. That's disingenuous. Final Four Runs are lucky here but not there. They are important here but not there. Winning your league is important here but not there. How you do vs your peers matters here but not there. etc...

You don't like Moser as much as others. Nothing wrong with that. But it isn't because of the numbers. You've illustrated that.

*disclaimer I am not advocating for Moser to be MUBB HC.

[brewcity77]

Stay classy.

Did you read your own post?

[shoothoops]

Did you read your own post?

Each time the goalposts move or subject gets changed.

[brewcity77]

Each time the goalposts move or subject gets changed.

Considering all you want to do is move the goalpost back to last December, I think you'd have a better grasp on the "classy" stuff you're writing.

[shoothoops]

Considering all you want to do is move the goalpost back to last December, I think you'd have a better grasp on the "classy" stuff you're writing.

Your opinion two months ago included many years of results, data, etc...your opinion of many years of evaluation changed pretty dramatically now. All the way back two whole months ago, inconsistent KenPom ratings all in the 100's for four years straight at Bradley didn't matter. You have also posted here before about pretty much saying what matters to you about NCAA post seasons are Final Fours. I even thought that sounded extreme. Not a lot of people have those. You have also mentioned the value of winning your league etc...

Can you see where this might be confusing to some?

It's all good. I have respect for you BrewCity77. We all want the same thing here, for as highly successful of an MUBB program annually as possible. Hopefully MU will make a good choice.

I am gonna use that 31 KenPom isn't good if Penn St. is 12 spots ahead of you that he mentioned. It's kind of like when the Jesuit uses traveler's dispensation when he doesn't want the fish sandwich at McDonald's, and goes for the burger on Friday's during Lent.

[Goose]

Hey guys

KenPom arguments are for bubble teams. I do not think Gonzaga or Nova fans debate their KenPom rankings. Build a winning program and leave the KenPom discussions for the SLU's of the world.

[GooooMarquette]

In 4 hours we went from:
'we should for sure look at Moser in our top 5' to
'Moser has to be our number one pick' to
'we can't afford him and he's too big for us' to
'we missed our window he's going to the NBA' to
'we're going to lose him to DePaul'

Or Indiana.

[Jockey]

I still think Wardle could be a good coach, but he'd be behind Smart, Smith, and Beilein for obvious reasons and Gates because I like the proven recruiting record.

And one concern with Moser is also style. I'm not sure what he does translates at the high major level for a full season. If he is our guy, I'm fine with it. He's an upgrade. But he's not at the top of my list.

1. Smart has way underperformed as a coach at Texas.

2. Any coaching style translates at the high major level if you get your guys and they buy in.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Who is a better BE talent recruiter, Smith or Moser? There is your hire.

Btw, I think Huntsman outbids us for Smith.

[GooooMarquette]

My far and away #1 is Craig Smith. He's literally won a coach of the year award at every institution he's head coached for. He consistently outperforms expectations and has built every program he's been a part of. Someone else said it but I agree, I think he profiles similarly to Chris Beard.

Smart was an example of consistent success at VCU. He struggled at Texas but even struggling he had them in the NCAA conversation every year but one and I think there were legitimate reasons outside his control for his lack of success. I think a change of scenery could lead to big success for him.

Beilein is the model of consistent success but the whole thing with the "Thugs" comment bothers me. To be clear, I could absolutely get past it as a person, but the negative recruiting tactics would be so easy. There are so many good coaches these days, why give time to the one who called his team full of mostly Black players thugs?

Not a model of consistent success but high on my list is Dennis Gates. I'll be honest, that's a pure gut feeling pick. I like what he's done so far, I like his recruiting chops from Florida State, and I like that he learned from Leonard Hamilton...but there simply isn't enough data to say that he's the guy for sure. Hoping to scoop up a future great before he blows up. Could end up being a dud. High risk, high reward.

Absolutely, totally with you on Smith and Gates. I would be very happy with either.

I am less enthusiastic about Shaka, because his middling performance at UT despite a mountain of resources and the nearby talent pool. And yes there were some factors beyond his control, but that is the case for most every coach. Zero NCAA wins in six seasons at a wealthy school with a great recent history is still a red flag for me.

Beilein would probably be very effective, but I am worried about the longevity of a 68-year old coach. And the "thugs" comment is a concern as well.

I would also include Moser despite his inconsistent performance that you note. A final four and a sweet 16 in a four year stretch at a school like Loyola is pretty darn impressive.

[blue and gold]

My far and away #1 is Craig Smith. He's literally won a coach of the year award at every institution he's head coached for. He consistently outperforms expectations and has built every program he's been a part of. Someone else said it but I agree, I think he profiles similarly to Chris Beard.

Do you share the following concerns in regards to Craig Smith?

• Has never won a game in the NCAA tournament as a head coach
• Has only been the head coach at schools located in North Dakota, South Dakota, and Utah.
• Has never coached in any capacity at a school east of the Mississippi River
• Has only has 2 years of experience at the high major level which was at Nebraska as an assistant coach from 2012-2014

[Jockey]

In 4 hours we went from:
'we should for sure look at Moser in our top 5' to
'Moser has to be our number one pick' to
'we can't afford him and he's too big for us' to
'we missed our window he's going to the NBA' to
'we're going to lose him to DePaul'

Standard Scoop take.

[Jockey]

In 2018, I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with Moser. Today I'd put him in my top-5 of candidates. Today was impressive, though it is only his second career top-20 win per kenpom. After pulling that Tennessee upset, they got a really fortunate draw in 2018 while that region fell into the toilet.

And echo everything TAMU said. There's stuff to like, but there are a lot of valid questions, and that's before getting to his lack of recruiting history.

Not sure what you mean by recruiting history. Mid-majors don't generally get the top guys. Almost ever. Not being able to recruit Top 100 players to Loyola says nothing about his recruiting ability.

BTW, I'd be fine with Moser if he is determined to be the best guy out there. Hopefully, due diligence will be done before making a selection.

[tower912]

Best guy out there willing to come to MU.  Takes mutual interest.

[rocky_warrior]

I've seen the stats, watched the game.  By that Moser seems fine.  My gut says no though.

Could just be the harissa chicken.

[Pakuni]

Not sure what you mean by recruiting history. Mid-majors don't generally get the top guys. Almost ever. Not being able to recruit Top 100 players to Loyola says nothing about his recruiting ability.

BTW, I'd be fine with Moser if he is determined to be the best guy out there. Hopefully, due diligence will be done before making a selection.

Right.
Moser's last five classes have ranked first or second the The Valley. Against his peers, he's a top recruiter. Whether that translates to winning recruiting battles at a higher level, who knows. But it would be unrealistic to expect him to land a lot of four-star kids at Loyola. Nobody at that level does.

[Billy Hoyle]

All reasonable, Goose.

6 of Shaka's 7 NCAA Tournament wins came long, long ago when he was not the favorite on opening weekend. His only other, back in 2013, was as a 5-seed. Since then, he's been the favorite on opening weekend several times and spit the bit, including against a former D2 team filled with 6-foot-1 guys.

But yes, I get your point.

As I sit here today, I'm in the "I don't know if I'm sold on Moser yet but I'm don't think I'd be against him" camp. Sounds like you're in a similar place, maybe leaning more No than I am.

ACU was in the tourney in 2019 and is in their 8th year at D1. 27, 20, and 23 wins the last three seasons. They've fully established themselves as a successful D1 program. Oh, and only four guys on the roster under 6-1.

And all of this success despite a strict no sex policy at the university.

[JWags85]

Right.
Moser's last five classes have ranked first or second the The Valley. Against his peers, he's a top recruiter. Whether that translates to winning recruiting battles at a higher level, who knows. But it would be unrealistic to expect him to land a lot of four-star kids at Loyola. Nobody at that level does.

I compare it to what Wichita St did post-FF.  Of course he won't be snagging Top 100 guys.  But Marshall used to the exposure to bring in a number of Top 150, Top 125 guys, in addition to top JuCo guys (which obviously is not Moser's MO, but it was similar level talent.

Moser, even with the FF bump, has never recruited a player in the top 250 to Loyola.  Go back to SLU.  In his years there, he only helped recruit 2 top 200 recruits (Mitchell and Thompson in his first class with Rick).  No further top 200 recruits until he left for Loyola.

His Xs and Os are without question.  But I think the recruiting is a very fair concern. Just cause he recruited as well as other mid major schools in his conference, doesn't mean he'll naturally graduate up when he hasn't for the last 20 years

[brewcity77]

Not sure what you mean by recruiting history. Mid-majors don't generally get the top guys. Almost ever. Not being able to recruit Top 100 players to Loyola says nothing about his recruiting ability.

BTW, I'd be fine with Moser if he is determined to be the best guy out there. Hopefully, due diligence will be done before making a selection.

Recruiting history means just that, he hasn't done it. And he runs a system that on its face won't be one that appeals to the kind of recruits we likely need to succeed in the Big East and beyond.

If it's Moser, I'll be very interested in his staff. Retaining Gainey would be a good start. Another recruiter and offensive specialist would help. I feel like of our candidates, Moser needs the strongest staff around him because I think the learning curve is steeper than for a Shaka or Gates who have extensive high major experience.

[willie warrior]

wllie

I just got the phone with my rabbi and we talked Rick and Moser for quite some time. Moser can flat out and coach and I would not be angry if he ended up the hire. I do have serious questions about his ability to recruit at BE at level. Some guys, albeit very few, love coaching for the sake of coaching. Rick LOVED making stiffs into players, within his system and Moser being a Rick guy has me worried.

FYI--If Rick were alive and healthy today I would have the same reservations if MU wanted to hire him. I loved Rick coaching a crappy program and work his magic because it was a thing of beauty. There is not a coach around today that would ever dispute Rick was a top five basketball guy, college or pro, and says a lot.

You really talk BB with your Rabbi? Now that is awesome. Rick Majerus was one of a kind and a basketball junkie. Too bad he did not get the support at MU he needed when BB was changing. I know very little about Moser prior to Loyola, but I am impressed with what he is doing. Other than Pitino, the ability of any of the speculated candidates to recruit at the Beast level could be questioned, except Shaka, and he has not done all that well in the dance since he is at Texas. I just do not believe right now that he is interested in MU, based on what happened previously. Right now my top 5, based on what I know would likely be:
1. Moser
2. Shaka Kahn
3. Craig Smith
4. Gates
5. Pitino
Pitino would be #1 based on his success, but apparently Scholl has ruled out his past NCAA discrepancies. He would still be worth pursuing if interested and has learned. If MU wanted to improve the quickest to the heights, Pitino would be the best--baggage or not.
But hell, who knows who else might be out there that could be interested. Moser does seem like an ideal fit, and he sure as hell can coach.
Realize the importance of doing a thorough search, but MU must also get their guy quickly so that the rebuild can begin quickly.

[MU82]

ACU was in the tourney in 2019 and is in their 8th year at D1. 27, 20, and 23 wins the last three seasons. They've fully established themselves as a successful D1 program. Oh, and only four guys on the roster under 6-1.

And all of this success despite a strict no sex policy at the university.

Ah, that all explains why they totally outworked a 3-seed and why their coach outmaneuvered one of the most overhyped guys of the last decade. Stoopid NCAA; shoulda seeded the Southland Conference champ 4th or better!

I don't think your last line applies anymore, though, because Abilene Christian sure f----- Texas.

[brewcity77]

The other one I feel strongly about today is Syracuse over WVU. Boeheim is always tough to prepare for on short rest and, despite their shooting, West Virginia is terrible against zone. Like worst in the field terrible. I also learned in the past that just because Boeheim got an undeserved bid doesn't mean he won't make a Sweet 16.

There ya go.

[Fred Garvin]

I thought West Virginia was press Virginia? Had they pressed the whole game,it might have been different. What happened to Culver? Didn't hardly play second half.

[Jockey]

Recruiting history means just that, he hasn't done it. And he runs a system that on its face won't be one that appeals to the kind of recruits we likely need to succeed in the Big East and beyond.

If it's Moser, I'll be very interested in his staff. Retaining Gainey would be a good start. Another recruiter and offensive specialist would help. I feel like of our candidates, Moser needs the strongest staff around him because I think the learning curve is steeper than for a Shaka or Gates who have extensive high major experience.

I was just giving another angle - not disagreeing with you.

Back to recruiting though, I have a question for you and Wags Or anyone else). How important do you rate assistant coaching in recruiting? They are doing most of the legwork. Obviously certain coaches are the draw - that is the reason, K, Cal, Izzo, Roy, etc. get the one-and dones. My question is more pointed at the non-"superstar" coaches.

[brewcity77]

I thought West Virginia was press Virginia? Had they pressed the whole game,it might have been different. What happened to Culver? Didn't hardly play second half.

Press Virginia largely ended when Jevon Carter left. Kudos to Huggy creating an identity around offense and shooters, but there were always some flaws with this team.