MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GOMU1104 on October 12, 2009, 08:52:15 AM
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The last one got locked, lets keep this one clean...
Week 5 Notes:
-MIN takes care of business. If anyone was expecting a letdown, they were just grasping at straws. STL is very bad. MIN has two tough games in the next 2 weeks, leading up to a rematch with GB in Lambeau Field.
-DET plays PIT tough, but cant get the W.
-GB and CHI both had byes. GB needed to get healthy and get things figured out. Tauscher could sign today, using games vs. DET and @ CLE as his "preseason."
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Jared Allen is an absolute freak, I can't stand him, but man can that guy play.
All in all, pretty boring slate of games once the Lions took 3 sacks when threatening to score at the end.
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Anybody else think Pittsburgh is a tad overrated? I realize Polomalu is hurt, but they have wins over the Titans, Lions, and Chargers and all 3 were a lot closer than they should have been. I just don't think they will beat MN at the dome, as much as I would like them to.
I might need to start finding a way to hedge some of my Vikings related bets otherwise January will be an expensive month.
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Anybody else think Pittsburgh is a tad overrated? I realize Polomalu is hurt, but they have wins over the Titans, Lions, and Chargers and all 3 were a lot closer than they should have been. I just don't think they will beat MN at the dome, as much as I would like them to.
I might need to start finding a way to hedge some of my Vikings related bets otherwise January will be an expensive month.
The stealer game is in PITT, and I think that will be MN's first loss. I think the second loss could come in GB, but we will see how the Pack addresses the offensive line issues.
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The Vikes looked good again.
Running game was somewhat limited, but teams are still selling out to stop the run, which basically leaves 2 WR and 1 TE vs 1 safety and 2 CBs. So far, Favre has sliced and diced this type of defense, and I think that is all the Vikes were hoping for.
I would call it an "opportunistic" gameplan for a QB. If a defense is going to give the Vikes a chance to run the football against 7 players, they will do that. If a team brings 8, the Vikes want Favre to make a good play. He doesn't have to make 20 plays per game. Realistically, he has to make 5-6 good/great plays per game and they are going to be in every game.
One Concern:
Favre is obviously durable, but 40 years old and coming off of surgery makes his durability suspect. Hopefully the Vikes can keep his throws per game down, and keep him fresh for longer.
Green Bay:
IF (big IF) they can improve the offensive line, and if they can commit to the run, I think they will improve greatly.
I think MN could have 2 losses after the PITT and GB games, which would give the Pack a great shot and coming back in the division.
Chicago:
I just haven't watched enough of bears to evaluate. I do know that Culter has been pretty sharp after a rough week 1, so they should be able to compete all season.
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The stealer game is in PITT, and I think that will be MN's first loss. I think the second loss could come in GB, but we will see how the Pack addresses the offensive line issues.
My bad. Still think MN wins that game.
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My bad. Still think MN wins that game.
You're more optimistic than I am.
Pass protection for the Vikes seems to be getting better, but I'm still not 100% confident that they can pick up all of the bitz packages that Pitt will come with.
On defense, Big Ben extends plays better than anybody, so the key is to get pressure from 2 lineman, not just one that ben can shrug off and run away from.
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Packers announce the signing of Tauscher.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/64002592.html
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Packers announce the signing of Tauscher.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/64002592.html
Now how soon will he be ready to play?
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My guess is that they use these next two games as his "preseason," in the hopes he can go full speed in 3 weeks.
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You're more optimistic than I am.
False, pessimistic. I am a Bears fan and want the Vikings to lose this game.
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I think Tauscher will overtake the starting spot following the Lions game. There's not much to catch up on in the offense, so if he's physically able, I see no reason why he won't start soon.
Wow, are the Rams bad.
Credit to the Vikings for being opportunistic and doing what you need to do to a bad team, but they sure are woeful. If I remember correctly, the first two turnovers weren't even "forced" by the Vikings. On the Allen TD, Boller pump faked and apparently spooked himself into a fumble, and on the second down by the goal line, Jackson never actually possessed the ball during the exchange.
Re: LancesOtherNut, do you just mean a boring slate of games for the early bunch? If so, I agree, but I thought Denver-New England was awesome. That Wild Horses formation that McDaniels unveiled is pretty innovative. And guess what, that team is good.
Re: MU_B2002... if the Steelers have weak wins vs. the Titans, Lions and Chargers (without their best player), then the same has to be said for the Vikings in three of theirs against three of the bottom five, and now including a last minute win against a Goreless 49ers team that apparently wasn't as good as their record indicated. But where it counts is in the W column, and if you can keep putting tally marks there, no one is gonna care how you got them.
PS... I like this thread a lot better than the other one. Let's keep it this way.
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My guess is that they use these next two games as his "preseason," in the hopes he can go full speed in 3 weeks.
This isn't intelligent. It belongs in another thread.
;)
Tausch might be ok, but I have to wonder why no other team took a flyer on him earlier and let him rehab his injury.
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I think Tauscher will overtake the starting spot following the Lions game. There's not much to catch up on in the offense, so if he's physically able, I see no reason why he won't start soon.
Wow, are the Rams bad.
Credit to the Vikings for being opportunistic and doing what you need to do to a bad team, but they sure are woeful. If I remember correctly, the first two turnovers weren't even "forced" by the Vikings. On the Allen TD, Boller pump faked and apparently spooked himself into a fumble, and on the second down by the goal line, Jackson never actually possessed the ball during the exchange.
Re: LancesOtherNut, do you just mean a boring slate of games for the early bunch? If so, I agree, but I thought Denver-New England was awesome. That Wild Horses formation that McDaniels unveiled is pretty innovative. And guess what, that team is good.
Re: MU_B2002... if the Steelers have weak wins vs. the Titans, Lions and Chargers (without their best player), then the same has to be said for the Vikings in three of theirs against three of the bottom five, and now including a last minute win against a Goreless 49ers team that apparently wasn't as good as their record indicated. But where it counts is in the W column, and if you can keep putting tally marks there, no one is gonna care how you got them.
PS... I like this thread a lot better than the other one. Let's keep it this way.
Any comments on the Raven game? Do you still like them to beat the Vikes in the Dome?
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This isn't intelligent. It belongs in another thread.
;)
Tausch might be ok, but I have to wonder why no other team took a flyer on him earlier and let him rehab his injury.
He worked out for Kansas City. I am willing to bet there was an understanding between GB and Tausch that he would be signed when the time was right.
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This isn't intelligent. It belongs in another thread.
;)
Tausch might be ok, but I have to wonder why no other team took a flyer on him earlier and let him rehab his injury.
Tauscher has said multiple times that he wanted to finish it out his career in Green Bay. He's a Wisconsin native (Sun Prairie, I believe?) and really had no intention at his age of starting a new career some place else. He's been in contact with Packers brass the entire time, and it was probably smart from the Packers perspective to not have him hold a valuable roster spot all the way through came and the first four weeks, and to allow Tauscher to rehab at his own pace.
He did give a token visit to Kansas City (another moderately close by team) but a lot of people, including Andrew Brandt at National Football Post, think it was just to give Tauscher a bit of leverage in case the Packers decided to jerk him around on a contract. They didn't, and it seems like the two are back together as was the plan early last off season.
Also, I have a curious question that sort of relates back to something someone mentioned in the last thread, and a few times in here. I see a lot of "Steelers are overrated, I know Polamalu is out but.." like it's just an afterthought. If, say, Peterson went out for extended period of time, wouldn't wins be much harder to come by during his absence? Not only is it just a loss of a starter, but it fundamentally changes what you can do on that side of the ball and changes the way defenses approach you. The same can be said for Polamalu. I'm just shocked that people talk about Polamalu's absence as an afterthought when he belongs in the discussion as the best defensive player in the NFL. I don't know how many of you guys watched the Steelers extensively dating back to last season, but the way LeBeau calls games with Polamalu in the lineup and with him out is like night and day.
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Any comments on the Raven game? Do you still like them to beat the Vikes in the Dome?
I made the bet, so now I have to stand by it even if that's the one I'm shaky on. ;)
Flacco is growing into his role as a franchise QB, they have two guys capable of carrying the load in the running game, and a veteran go-to receiver. They also have an aggressive, veteran-laden, opportunistic defense. However, they "aggressive'd" themselves into two late personal foul penalties and let the Bengals steal one from right under their nose yesterday. I'll say this, it should be a good match up and the toughest one the Vikings have seen yet. My realization on that bet is that a lot more has to go right for me than it does for you.
By the way, apparently Cedric Benson is having a coming out party, and the Bengals with a healthy Palmer are a lot more solid than anyone really gave them credit for. Who knew.
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I think Tauscher will overtake the starting spot following the Lions game. There's not much to catch up on in the offense, so if he's physically able, I see no reason why he won't start soon.
Wow, are the Rams bad.
Credit to the Vikings for being opportunistic and doing what you need to do to a bad team, but they sure are woeful. If I remember correctly, the first two turnovers weren't even "forced" by the Vikings. On the Allen TD, Boller pump faked and apparently spooked himself into a fumble, and on the second down by the goal line, Jackson never actually possessed the ball during the exchange.
Re: LancesOtherNut, do you just mean a boring slate of games for the early bunch? If so, I agree, but I thought Denver-New England was awesome. That Wild Horses formation that McDaniels unveiled is pretty innovative. And guess what, that team is good.
Re: MU_B2002... if the Steelers have weak wins vs. the Titans, Lions and Chargers (without their best player), then the same has to be said for the Vikings in three of theirs against three of the bottom five, and now including a last minute win against a Goreless 49ers team that apparently wasn't as good as their record indicated. But where it counts is in the W column, and if you can keep putting tally marks there, no one is gonna care how you got them.
PS... I like this thread a lot better than the other one. Let's keep it this way.
Yeah the New England/Denver game did not disappoint, I was referring to the two noon games (DET/PITT and MIN/STL)
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I made the bet, so now I have to stand by it even if that's the one I'm shaky on. ;)
Flacco is growing into his role as a franchise QB, they have two guys capable of carrying the load in the running game, and a veteran go-to receiver. They also have an aggressive, veteran-laden, opportunistic defense. However, they "aggressive'd" themselves into two late personal foul penalties and let the Bengals steal one from right under their nose yesterday. I'll say this, it should be a good match up and the toughest one the Vikings have seen yet. My realization on that bet is that a lot more has to go right for me than it does for you.
By the way, apparently Cedric Benson is having a coming out party, and the Bengals with a healthy Palmer are a lot more solid than anyone really gave them credit for. Who knew.
I don't really care about the bet at all actually. We can call it off, or change the wager to non-$ related prizes.
When I saw your original post, I just think your anti-Vikings slant was skewing your vision. While I agree that the Vikes haven't beaten the NFL's best teams, the same case could be made for the Ravens, who you seemed very confident in. Is this because you just don't like the Vikings?
I don't think the Packers are as bad as their performance on Monday night, and I don't think the Vikes are quite that good. However, let's not pretend that 5-0 with 3 road wins isn't a great start, regardless of the competition.
It seems like every week you guys are saying, "yea but wait for...".
They are eventually going to lose, so keep picking against them I guess... but that still doesn't mean they aren't a pretty good team right now, and will still be a pretty good team when they are 6-2 (losses to PITT and GB).
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I have to admit snickering while watching Kyle Orton drive the Broncos to another victory and looking at the score crawler and seeing that Cedric Benson ran for another 120 yards.
Things like those make Chicago sports radio fun to listen to.
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PXILibero2, on the Steelers.
Trust me I do not discount the importance of Troy, and I know he is a key part of what they are able to do on defense. I just feel like they are a little overhyped. Maybe it's due to the fact that I am sick of seeing them in the playoffs and winning the superbowl. Lombardi envy I guess.
And I am happy for Orton in Denver and Cedric in Cinci. But I do not disagree with anything the Bears have done involving those 2 players. Except for releasing T Jones and keeping Benson.
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I don't really care about the bet at all actually. We can call it off, or change the wager to non-$ related prizes.
When I saw your original post, I just think your anti-Vikings slant was skewing your vision. While I agree that the Vikes haven't beaten the NFL's best teams, the same case could be made for the Ravens, who you seemed very confident in. Is this because you just don't like the Vikings?
I don't think the Packers are as bad as their performance on Monday night, and I don't think the Vikes are quite that good. However, let's not pretend that 5-0 with 3 road wins isn't a great start, regardless of the competition.
It seems like every week you guys are saying, "yea but wait for...".
They are eventually going to lose, so keep picking against them I guess... but that still doesn't mean they aren't a pretty good team right now, and will still be a pretty good team when they are 6-2 (losses to PITT and GB).
I'll give you the call on that. I'm fine for calling it off, but I was the one who agreed to it, so I'll give you the right to not allow that.
5-0 is 5-0. There's no way around it. But a lot needs to go right for the Vikes to keep up this kind of production. Health is number one. Childress remaining competent is number two. Keeping Favre's pitch count down is three. Favre's been in MVP talks through the first half of each of the last three seasons, and even had 10 TD/5INT in 2006 before finishing with 18/18. In 07, he was on his way to an even more monstrous season, but really faded with 6 TD/7INT down the stretch over the last five games.
Childress has done a decent job keeping Favre's pitch count down (below 30 in each of the three cupcake games so far), but other than Detroit once more and perhaps Carolina week 15, the cupcakes are quickly coming to an end and he'll need to find a way to keep Favre's arm under wraps or the same thing will happen. After four straight years of fading at the end, it's officially a trend.
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Except for releasing T Jones and keeping Benson.
Well they did trade Jones for a second round pick.
EDIT: Still a bad move in my opinion.
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Modified thread title to be specific to this season. Let's start a new one every season so it doesn't get too long. Back to the regularly scheduled topic.
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I'll give you the call on that. I'm fine for calling it off, but I was the one who agreed to it, so I'll give you the right to not allow that.
5-0 is 5-0. There's no way around it. But a lot needs to go right for the Vikes to keep up this kind of production. Health is number one. Childress remaining competent is number two. Keeping Favre's pitch count down is three. Favre's been in MVP talks through the first half of each of the last three seasons, and even had 10 TD/5INT in 2006 before finishing with 18/18. In 07, he was on his way to an even more monstrous season, but really faded with 6 TD/7INT down the stretch over the last five games.
Childress has done a decent job keeping Favre's pitch count down (below 30 in each of the three cupcake games so far), but other than Detroit once more and perhaps Carolina week 15, the cupcakes are quickly coming to an end and he'll need to find a way to keep Favre's arm under wraps or the same thing will happen. After four straight years of fading at the end, it's officially a trend.
The bet is still on then.
Also, with all do respect, the last 1/2 of your post is more of the Packer fans "yea, but" rants.
I know the trends, and I agree that it is a concern. But, you guys keep trotting all of that stuff out here every week. Why? What are you trying to prove?
Here is what I've heard:
The vikes are good, but:
- Favre won't last, he's too old
- Favre fades in big games
- Favre will blow up against the packers
- The vikes schedule is soft
- The Vikes will have 2 losses headed to GB
I'm not denying some of the stuff you guys are saying, but you can't type it fast enough every time somebody says something positive about the Vikings.
When is it ok to call the Vikings a good team?
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The bet is still on then.
Also, with all do respect, the last 1/2 of your post is more of the Packer fans "yea, but" rants.
I know the trends, and I agree that it is a concern. But, you guys keep trotting all of that stuff out here every week. Why? What are you trying to prove?
Here is what I've heard:
The vikes are good, but:
- Favre won't last, he's too old
- Favre fades in big games
- Favre will blow up against the packers
- The vikes schedule is soft
- The Vikes will have 2 losses headed to GB
I'm not denying some of the stuff you guys are saying, but you can't type it fast enough every time somebody says something positive about the Vikings.
When is it ok to call the Vikings a good team?
They ARE a good team. But I really don't think that they're as good as their 5-0 record indicates, green and gold glasses or not. At this moment, I think they're the fifth best team in the NFC behind the Giants, Saints, Eagles and Falcons. That's nothing to be ashamed of, but much of the down talk on the Vikings in the other thread was in response to the "Consensus" talk and being the best team in the NFC, or in the league, what have you. Almost none of that came from you.
I don't know if it's going to take a few games of them getting exposed to bring this back down to earth. It's easy to ride high when you're 5-0, and I'd be enjoying it if it were me, too. But I watch a lot of football, and then I re-watch a lot of football. And then I watch it again. It's been a hobby of mine for more than five years now (starting with VHS tapes and now with DVR), and I trust what I see.
And what I see is a secondary that is in the bottom half of the NFL EVEN WITH an elite NFL pass rush, and that's difficult to do. Luckily, Favre and co. have been very protective of the ball through five games. If that continues, you're good as gold at 12-4 and cruising through this division. But with a fumble prone RB and the most turnover prone QB, do I see that continuing for 16 games? No way. The Vikings will lose some games they should lose this year, and will also lose one or two they shouldn't, and that will make this division a lot closer than the comfort level they display right now.
Upon re-reading my last post, it smacks of bitter Packer fan, and I apologize for not elaborating on the fact that I DO actually have reasons for what I say other than blind hope that the Vikings crumble. But I'm just making it known as I watch for the second time Boller and Bulger moving the ball up and down the field at a 71% clip to the likes of Keenan Burton and Danny Amendola that teams not called the Browns, Lions or Rams aren't going to bail you out inside the 10 yard line three times in a game, and it's how the Vikings respond when THAT type of pressure is on that will cement them among the NFL's elite.
After re-watching the Denver game this morning, watching the efficiency with which that team gets off the field in key situations and how their play calling evolves based on what a good defense was giving them just screams elite. I apologize for not seeing that same thing in the Vikes this year through five games.
I really want to avoid making it sound like it's just me as a Packer fan crooning for the Vikes to fail. I promise it's me as a football fan telling it how I see it after watching umpteen games this season multiple times. The main reason I said I was so shaky on the Ravens game is that I've only seen them in one game this season, against the Chargers, and while I like what I saw execution wise, only seeing one game can tell a lot of lies compared to a broader sample size.
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Before the start of the 2006 season, the Bears had a handshake agreement with Thomas Jones to trade him in the off season following that year, and they obliged.
What Ced Benson or Orton are doing/not doing is meaningless to me as a Bears fan. How any one could care what Benson is doing in Cincy now, after what he pulled in Chicago, is crazy.
I know the Vikes/Pack meet in 3 weeks, but focusing on the next two weeks in the division is quite interesting. Pack has a chance to get healthy record wise, with the Lions and Browns on tap. Bears have a very interesting next two games, @ Atl, @ Cincy. The game with the Falcons is huge. With the Falcons probably chasing the Saints, and Bears probably chasing the Vikes all year, this has the potential to be a huge game come playoff time. We'll know how elite the Vikes are after these next two weeks as well. For the favors the schedule makers gave the Vikes early, karma comes back these next two games.
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They ARE a good team. But I really don't think that they're as good as their 5-0 record indicates, green and gold glasses or not. At this moment, I think they're the fifth best team in the NFC behind the Giants, Saints, Eagles and Falcons. That's nothing to be ashamed of, but much of the down talk on the Vikings in the other thread was in response to the "Consensus" talk and being the best team in the NFC, or in the league, what have you. Almost none of that came from you.
I don't know if it's going to take a few games of them getting exposed to bring this back down to earth. It's easy to ride high when you're 5-0, and I'd be enjoying it if it were me, too. But I watch a lot of football, and then I re-watch a lot of football. And then I watch it again. It's been a hobby of mine for more than five years now (starting with VHS tapes and now with DVR), and I trust what I see.
And what I see is a secondary that is in the bottom half of the NFL EVEN WITH an elite NFL pass rush, and that's difficult to do. Luckily, Favre and co. have been very protective of the ball through five games. If that continues, you're good as gold at 12-4 and cruising through this division. But with a fumble prone RB and the most turnover prone QB, do I see that continuing for 16 games? No way. The Vikings will lose some games they should lose this year, and will also lose one or two they shouldn't, and that will make this division a lot closer than the comfort level they display right now.
Upon re-reading my last post, it smacks of bitter Packer fan, and I apologize for not elaborating on the fact that I DO actually have reasons for what I say other than blind hope that the Vikings crumble. But I'm just making it known as I watch for the second time Boller and Bulger moving the ball up and down the field at a 71% clip to the likes of Keenan Burton and Danny Amendola that teams not called the Browns, Lions or Rams aren't going to bail you out inside the 10 yard line three times in a game, and it's how the Vikings respond when THAT type of pressure is on that will cement them among the NFL's elite.
After re-watching the Denver game this morning, watching the efficiency with which that team gets off the field in key situations and how their play calling evolves based on what a good defense was giving them just screams elite. I apologize for not seeing that same thing in the Vikes this year through five games.
I really want to avoid making it sound like it's just me as a Packer fan crooning for the Vikes to fail. I promise it's me as a football fan telling it how I see it after watching umpteen games this season multiple times. The main reason I said I was so shaky on the Ravens game is that I've only seen them in one game this season, against the Chargers, and while I like what I saw execution wise, only seeing one game can tell a lot of lies compared to a broader sample size.
Good response, and I agree with a lot of what you have said, it's just interesting to read the "yea but wait for..." stuff every week.
I know the Vikes are not the best team in football, and I think they will probably finish the season at 7-4 for the next 11 games, which is decent, but not world beating.
It sounds like you watch a lot (too much) football, so I'll take you at your word that you're not a bitter Packers fan, and you are trying to be objective about what you see. ;)
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Good response, and I agree with a lot of what you have said, it's just interesting to read the "yea but wait for..." stuff every week.
I know the Vikes are not the best team in football, and I think they will probably finish the season at 7-4 for the next 11 games, which is decent, but not world beating.
It sounds like you watch a lot (too much) football, so I'll take you at your word that you're not a bitter Packers fan, and you are trying to be objective about what you see. ;)
Probably true. I'll admit to being a wanna-be scout and actually working in football operations some day, but since that's kind of a pipe dream I'm looking to work this Marquette education into a job on the business side of football instead.
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Modified thread title to be specific to this season. Let's start a new one every season so it doesn't get too long. Back to the regularly scheduled topic.
The last thread was started in August, so it hit 30-some pages in 2 months. I think getting long may be unavoidable.
On Topic: I didn't watch much football this weekend because I was running around with the wifey, but I turned on AM 620 (in Milwaukee) in the car. Much to my chagrin they were playing an old Packers vs Falcons game... on the radio. I had no idea it was a replay until Brett Favre started connecting on passes for us :P It was like War of the Worlds, but more distressing!
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Much to my chagrin they were playing an old Packers vs Falcons game... on the radio. I had no idea it was a replay until Brett Favre started connecting on passes for us :P It was like War of the Worlds, but more distressing!
Was that the Mike Vick playoff game, or would that be to much for the Packer fans to handle during the bye week?
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Was that the Mike Vick playoff game, or would that be to much for the Packer fans to handle during the bye week?
Ouch, kill me. That game was awful. I think it was either the 1995 Wild Card game, or the 1994 regular season game which propelled the Pack into the playoffs (also the last Packer game ever at County Stadium).
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Ouch, kill me. That game was awful. I think it was either the 1995 Wild Card game, or the 1994 regular season game which propelled the Pack into the playoffs (also the last Packer game ever at County Stadium).
I was at the game in County Stadium! When Favre scrambled for the end zone with no timeouts remaining, I was shouting "NOOOOO!!!!"
Then he dives and gets in...
I gotta admit, even though he plays for the Vikings, it's hard not to love the guy.
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The packers roll big today and nobody wants to talk about it?
Vander Blue is a more amazing story than I realized.
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The packers roll big today and nobody wants to talk about it?
Vander Blue is a more amazing story than I realized.
That was about the least-impressive 26-point shutout you'll ever see. Happy the Pack got the W, and has next week in Cleveland to figure their sh!t out before the rematch with MN in Green Bay.
Thought the Ravens were going to help us out a bit today. Kickers....
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Just a horrendously played game by the Bears. Killer turnovers in the red zone, killer penalties, pretty embarrassing coming off a bye week to be so sloppy.
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That Packer game was virtually unwatchable...The outcome was never in doubt, and it was just a horribly played game.
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The bears are in a little trouble, but they aren't out of it.
I think after week 8, the Vikes will be 6-2 the Packers will be 5-2 (after beating the Vikes) and the Bears will be 4-3. The Bears will need to pull a couple of road game upsets, and they will be right back in it.
I think this division will go down to the last game.
Vikes looked good for 75% of the game, but the pass defense was pretty bad, and the play-calling got progressively worse as the game went on (it was great on the opening 2 drives).
6-0 is great, but the Vikes don't really have control of the division yet. They need to win a tough road games (either Pitt or GB) and then they will really be in the drivers seat at 7-1 (although I don't think that will happen).
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If the Vikings win at Lambeau, the division race is over.
The pure football fan in me would love to see Vikings/Saints in the playoffs. I know they don't meet in the regular season, but that'd be a heck of a game.
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Vikes looked good for 75% of the game, but the pass defense was pretty bad...
6-0 is great, but the Vikes don't really have control of the division yet. They need to win a tough road games (either Pitt or GB) and then they will really be in the drivers seat at 7-1 (although I don't think that will happen).
Both teams pass defense was bad...that Ravens' defense is really a shadow of its former self.
6-0 is great, but the Vikes don't really have control of the division yet. They need to win a tough road games (either Pitt or GB) and then they will really be in the drivers seat at 7-1 (although I don't think that will happen).
That is 100% correct. I do expect the Vikings and Packers to be essentially tied after they play. However, I am beginning to think more and more that there is little hope for the Packers. That O-Line seems to be getting worse instead of better. If they could find a way to shore that up, they would be pretty darn good. I don't think they are going to be able to do that though.
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Both teams pass defense was bad...that Ravens' defense is really a shadow of its former self.
That is 100% correct. I do expect the Vikings and Packers to be essentially tied after they play. However, I am beginning to think more and more that there is little hope for the Packers. That O-Line seems to be getting worse instead of better. If they could find a way to shore that up, they would be pretty darn good. I don't think they are going to be able to do that though.
The Pack's schedule sets up pretty nicely, but they will have to win a tough game on the road if they want to win the division, and with the aforementioned offensive line, it will be tough.
I know this isn't ground-breaking, but the division will probably come down to these 3 things:
1. Injuries
2. Big road wins (which team can come up with 1 or 2 that they really "shouldn't" win, like @PITT, or @ CINCI)
3. Who loses to Detroit first (The Lions still aren't good, but they are good enough to ruin somebody's season)
Every team has their warts, and we know what they are... but the 3 things listed above will tell the story of the division.
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Any news on Winfield's injury? That could be KILLER
And I agree, the Packers game yesterday was more than hard to watch.
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Any news on Winfield's injury? That could be KILLER
And I agree, the Packers game yesterday was more than hard to watch.
Sprained foot.
http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_13594813
Could be out this week, but it doesn't look like it's going to keep him out for an extended period.
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Sprained foot.
http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_13594813
Could be out this week, but it doesn't look like it's going to keep him out for an extended period.
That's good news for the Vikings pass D. It's fun watching Winfield stick his nose into every play considering his size.
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That's good news for the Vikings pass D. It's fun watching Winfield stick his nose into every play considering his size.
Pound for pound, Winfield is the best tackler on that team, and one of the better ones in the league.
He is VERY tough.
I hope he can play this week, but I definitely want him to comeback healthy against the Pack. Rodgers can definitely sling the ball around. The Vikes will need Winfield.
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Winfield may be out...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/22/winfield-apparently-wont-go/
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I doubt Winfield will play at this point. There's some talk of using him in 'limited situations' and going with a mixture of Paymah, Sapp, Allen and maybe Winfield, but whatever the case it's not looking good for at least this week. We've got tough games coming up, but a bye week is in sight. With our stronghold on the NFC North lead, I'd lean towards letting Winfield rest. Of course, if things look as dismal as they did late in the game vs. the Ravens, that could make for an ugly couple of weeks going up against Big Ben and Erin.
Adrian's ankle got twisted on Sunday, but supposedly isn't too bad. Chili says, "he's sore all over" when asked about AP's ankle. AD is already getting limited action in Wednesday practices, which I think is good. But, I do worry about his health. I'd hate to rely on a 40 year old gunslinger that throws nonstop INTs.
Besides Antoine and AD being a little banged up, Loadholt continues to have a nagging ankle, Madieu Williams a quad and Percy Harvin a re-aggravated shoulder. It may just be Winfield that is out this weekend. Of course, all teams work through injuries - at least we're not the Browns (yet).
The biggest issue the Consensus Vikings have is that there are rumors of a Chili-extension. I can't argue with getting victories, but I am still not big on Childress. Unlike the Packers, which literally have huge (female) fans, I'm not sure he has many huge fans.
By the way, Favre is completing passes at a 69.7% clip, with 12 TDs and 2 picks, good for a 109.5 rating, behind only Peyton and Drew. But, we're almost to week 9, when his arm will fall off and he'll blow the season for us like he did for the Jets.
PS - I bet Vander Blue is a Vikings fan... the kid has got great taste.
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Thanks for underlining stronghold.... makes it easier to point out that it is the incorrect word. I think you mean stranglehold, just ask Ted Nugent.
And yes, I only point this out as a bitter Bears fan who seems destined to be asking where you would like your winnings sent.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stronghold
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stranglehold
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Thanks for underlining stronghold.... makes it easier to point out that it is the incorrect word. I think you mean stranglehold, just ask Ted Nugent.
And yes, I only point this out as a bitter Bears fan who seems destined to be asking where you would like your winnings sent.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stronghold
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stranglehold
As a Bears fan I would think you'd be the last one to "crown their ass" seeing as how it's only week 7...
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Sssshhh I'm trying to jinx them.
And that to this day is still one of my favorite youtube videos.
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Sssshhh I'm trying to jinx them.
And that to this day is still one of my favorite youtube videos.
If you loved that one, just google Coach Hawkins from Colorado University..."THIS IS DIVISION 1 FOOTBALL!! GO PLAY INTRAMURALS, BROTHER!"
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But, we're almost to week 9, when his arm will fall off and he'll blow the season for us like he did for the Jets.
I find it funny that "his arm will fall off" didn't rate teal.
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Packers cruise in Cleveland. Took care of business the way they are supposed to.
Luck ran out for the Vikings this week.
Sunday should be very interesting.
P.S...Bears getting boatraced in Cincy.
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Luck ran out for the Vikings this week.
I'm a diehard packer fan but I don't think any of the Viking's success has relied on luck unfortunately.
I'm happy to see they lost and happier that they got a taste of the double-edged sword that Favre is but they are a very talented bunch. Next weeks game will hopefully be a full 60 minute effort (if it isn't then I'm betting it is more likely because the Pack isn't keeping up rather than the other way around). Of course, I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. ;D
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I'm a diehard packer fan but I don't think any of the Viking's success has relied on luck unfortunately.
Um...the SF and BAL games?
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Um...the SF and BAL games?
Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about. I realize they're very talented, but they have also been very lucky in 2 of their wins. Favre did it starting about when we thought he would. Let's see if he keeps it up.
On another note, I'm really happy the Bears traded a top 5 QB this year plus a 1st and 2nd round draft pick for the worst QB in the NFL
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Cutler may be terrible at times, but he is no where near the worst QB in a league with Jemarcus Russell, Sean Hill, Derek Anderson, Josh Johnson and Jake Delhomme.
This game he looks worse than he really has been due to a total lack of protection and a one dimensional offense due to terrible pass coverage.
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Um...the SF and BAL games?
I'd argue that SF and BAL had luck on their side that enabled them to challenge Minnesota as well as they did rather than Minnesota being lucky and surmounting the odds against them to win those games.
Put it this way, if SF and Minnesota were to play a game next week who would you expect has a higher probability to win? Answers will vary of course but my opinion is that SF is the underdog. If an underdog upsets then it's either a.) because the underdog was underrated and/or b.) because they were lucky/the opponent was unlucky. My opinion is that SF and BAL are not underrated so Minnesota won those games despite having luck stacked AGAINST it.
Anyhow.. I tire of defending those idiots and think I need to vomit now.
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Spiral...I'm not going to get into hypotheticals, as it is a complete waste of time.
Based on the final plays in the SF and BAL games, MIN was lucky to win both of them.
Moving on...next week will be fun.
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Favre did it starting about when we thought he would. Let's see if he keeps it up.
Wad's... is this you saying that Favre hasn't fallen off a cliff, as "we thought he would" by week 9? Seriously? Did you see the game? Apparently not.
The two turnovers weren't Favre trying some wacky isht. The fumble was partly on him, but due to poor line play. It happens. The second was Chester Taylor unable to catch a pass that he should have. Neither of these were indicative of Favre doing 'what we thought he would'. That's idiotic. We were 6 point underdogs and were there at the end. The reality is, wins matter and we're 1.5 up.
Winfield being out for several weeks could be brutal, though. Here is GB's chance. The Vikings are far and away the class of the NFC North (as the preseason Consensus knew), but GB still has a shot. I don't know WTF to think about Chicago...
BTW, the 'lucky' talk on this thread is stupid. Win. That's what matters. Lucky is a bird flying on the field and connecting with the ball, breaking up a pass. Lucky is a bad call by the referee. US beating SF was not about luck - that was about skills.
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I actually agree with JayBoy on this one.
The plays by Favre weren't necessarily his fault. You maybe could blame him on the fumble, for not getting rid of the ball, or protecting it better...or whatever. Like you said, it happens, because of the way he holds the ball in the pocket.
As for the pick, Taylor definitely should have caught it. On top of it, it falls into the hands of the PIT defender. Went from bad to worse.
If, for some reason, I was a MIN fan...I would be more pissed at Chilly for 1) not giving AD the ball on the goal line and 2) not having AD in on the final drive...especially the final play. You really want C. Taylor in there in crunch time?
If you fail, and dont win the division and go very deep into the playoffs...it will be because of your slapdick of a coach...not because of Favre screwing up.
However...agreeing with JayBoy ends there...Those W's were lucky. In the end, they all count the same, but you cant discount the luck involved.
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Those W's were lucky. In the end, they all count the same, but you cant discount the luck involved.
It's a double sided sword if you really want to account for wins with "luck".
You could simply call the PIT loss "unlucky" because the ball went off Taylor's hands (normally a very good receiver) when the Vikes were driving and have a very good kicker (if they needed to go for the tie).
Point being, while all 6-0 teams aren't created equal, the amount of "luck" every team gets throughout a season is usually determined by skill and their ability to execute at crunch time.
Was Kirk Gibson "lucky" to hit a home run off of Eckersly, or was that skill?
Was Christian Laettner "lucky" to hit the last second shot against UK, or was that skill?
Was Dominic James "lucky" to hit that shot last year against NC State, or was that skill?
Again, I'll be the first to admit that the Vikes were not the greatest 6-0 team on the planet, but forgive me for not voiding 2 of their wins as "luck".
Anyways, next week's game is HUGE. If the Pack wins that division, it will go down to the last game. If the Vikes win, they have a little breathing room and will definitely control their own destiny as they will have a essentially a 3 game lead at 1/2 way point.
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Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about. I realize they're very talented, but they have also been very lucky in 2 of their wins. Favre did it starting about when we thought he would. Let's see if he keeps it up.
On another note, I'm really happy the Bears traded a top 5 QB this year plus a 1st and 2nd round draft pick for the worst QB in the NFL
That makes two of us. As a Bears fan, I wouldn't even flinch, I'd make that trade again in a heartbeat. Any time you can get a Pro Bowl QB and a good young speedy receiver for an average/above average QB and picks, you make that move seven days of the week and twice on Sunday.
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The Bears defense is just plain average at best and awful today. Cutler was still a great upgrade in long term.
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"It's not really fair to put the Vikings first loss of the season entirely on Brett Favre's shoulders, but he did after all have a hand in both fourth-quarter turnovers (a fumble and an interception) that led to two long Pittsburgh defensive touchdowns in the final seven minutes and provided the difference in the Steelers' 27-17 win at Heinz Field.
Favre's interception went right through the hands of running back Chester Taylor and into the arms of Steelers reserve linebacker Keyaron Fox, who took it back 82 yards for the game-clinching score. Favre was little more culpable on his fumble, which was recovered and returned 77 yards for a touchdown by LaMarr Woodley.
The Vikings (6-1) have had some good fortune in some of their wins this season, and maybe Sunday's loss was an indication that the worm inevitably has begun to turn a bit on that front. Minnesota played well enough to win for the most part, but if you're a Vikings fan, it has to be a little concerning that Favre had season highs in both pass attempts (51) and yards (334).
Wasn't that the fear, that Favre would want to load it up at some point and throw it 50 times, even if this was supposed to be Adrian Peterson's team to lead offensively? Minnesota ran just 23 times for 89 yards (Peterson had 69 yards on 18 carries), and wound up throwing the ball more than twice that amount. Favre had no touchdowns, the one costly pick, the fumble, and was sacked four times. The Vikings offense produced just 10 points, with the other seven coming on Percy Harvin's 88-yard fourth quarter kickoff return."
...and...
"With 11 touchdown passes and 10 interceptions through his first six games, it's getting tougher all the time to make the case that Jay Cutler has been a difference maker in Chicago.
At the very least, he's no Kyle Orton."
Looks like SI agrees with what I had to say...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/10/25/Week7.snaps/index.html?eref=sihp
Also, not a bad comment about the Packers under there; however, I don't think there's much to take from these 2 wins seeing as they're against the Browns and the Lions. Can't wait for next weekend.
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"With 11 touchdown passes and 10 interceptions through his first six games, it's getting tougher all the time to make the case that Jay Cutler has been a difference maker in Chicago.
At the very least, he's no Kyle Orton."
Looks like SI agrees with what I had to say...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/10/25/Week7.snaps/index.html?eref=sihp
Congrats, Don Banks agrees. I would think most of Chicago would not. Is Orton's team having a good season? Yes. Is he responsible singlehandedly for any of those wins? I don't think so. Yes, I was sad to see Orton go, as the photos of him partying in Chicago were hilarious, but I wouldn't take back the trade. Now the Gaines Adams trade.... Maybe, but time will tell on that one.
I really can't pin anything on Jay yesterday, as he doesn't play DB. Tillman for all the props Ochocinco was giving this week, looked like a high school player trying to cover 85. At least that's how it looked in the first half. I stopped watching at that point.
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Didn't read all the posts yet but did anyone else find it hilarious that if Favre makes that tackle at the end MIN covers?
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Congrats, Don Banks agrees.
Better him, than say, Gregg Easterbrook or Peter King.
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And what a glorious cover that was by the Steelers. That clinched a 4 team parlay for me. You know, just for fun of course.
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What were your other 3 games? Hypothetically of course.
If I was to make a 4 team parlay, then I would take Pitt and lay the pts, etc.
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What were your other 3 games? Hypothetically of course.
If I was to make a 4 team parlay, then I would take Pitt and lay the pts, etc.
I called it my homer special. Pack -9, Steelers -6, Bengals +1, and I threw the Colts -15 into every bet I had yesterday. So I guess that pick didn't clinch it for me, because the Bears were a late game.
I got 12-1 on that parlay and kicking myself for not putting the Pats -14 into that one too, because I threw that game into a few other bets I had too. A 4 team is 12-1, and a 5 teamer jumps to nearly 21-1, doh! But the gambling gods were kind yesterday indeed.
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The two turnovers weren't Favre trying some wacky isht. The fumble was partly on him, but due to poor line play. It happens. The second was Chester Taylor unable to catch a pass that he should have. Neither of these were indicative of Favre doing 'what we thought he would'. That's idiotic. We were 6 point underdogs and were there at the end. The reality is, wins matter and we're 1.5 up.
So that's one Favre turnover blamed on the offensive line, and one Favre turnover blamed on the receiver?
You guys are starting to sound like Packer fans....
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Good work Vikings:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/5357/orlando-thomas-report-was-wrong
Nothing like erroneously reporting that a former player has passed away from ALS...
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If Marquette called and told me GOMU1104 passed away, do you think I'd fact check that?
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If Marquette called and told me GOMU1104 passed away, do you think I'd fact check that?
I would hope so.
I'm no journalist, but isnt breaking news supposed to be confirmed by 2 sources?
Hopefully karma comes back around this Sunday, from 3:15 PM until 6:30 PM
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Packers - 28
Vikings - 20
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I would hope so.
I'm no journalist, but isnt breaking news supposed to be confirmed by 2 sources?
Hopefully karma comes back around this Sunday, from 3:15 PM until 6:30 PM
Isn't the AP at fault then as well? They just put the Vikes release out on the wire without confirming it (twice).
"The Associated Press took the information from the Vikings site and did a write-up that made it to Yahoo News. The AP reported that Thomas died early Wednesday at the age of 37. The report said the Vikings had already planned a moment of silence of Thomas during their next home game Nov. 15. "
Either way, I would say the school, the Vikings and the AP are all equally at fault, but realistically I can see how this happens, especially in the modern media where speed of information is everything.
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Packers - 28
Vikings - 20
I would take the over on that.
The Vikes can't stop Rodgers and I don't know if the Pack can slow down the Vikes (although without Berrian, it will be easier).
Pack 38
Vikes 33
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(although without Berrian, it will be easier).
What is wrong with B Twice?
MN 24 GB 23.
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What is wrong with B Twice?
MN 24 GB 23.
Hamstring.
Although, I just looked again, and he did practice yesterday, so hopefully he can play.
Harvin is still dinged up, but I have a feeling he's going to be that way for the rest of the year and will just have to play through it.
Berrian, Rice and Harvin are not hall of famers, but have turned into a decent receiving corps if they can stay healthy.
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I would hope so.
I'm no journalist, but isnt breaking news supposed to be confirmed by 2 sources?
Hopefully karma comes back around this Sunday, from 3:15 PM until 6:30 PM
A death notice for Michael Jackson double sourced, yeah, probably. A death notice for some random football guy double sourced? Highly unlikely.
Uh, and the Vikings are journalists?
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A death notice for Michael Jackson double sourced, yeah, probably. A death notice for some random football guy double sourced? Highly unlikely.
Uh, and the Vikings are journalists?
When they release statements, that will be taken as fact by media outlets around the country, they should be sure their information is 100% true.
If you are going to issue a statement that a former player has died, from complications from ALS...youd better be 100% sure he has actually passed away.
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When they release statements, that will be taken as fact by media outlets around the country, they should be sure their information is 100% true.
If you are going to issue a statement that a former player has died, from complications from ALS...youd better be 100% sure he has actually passed away.
Yea, but by that logic, isn't the school to blame? They are the ones who contacted the Vikings and said he died. Why are the Vikings expected to double check sources if the school and/or AP doesn't?
I'm certainly not saying the team isn't responsible, but I don't think they are solely responsible. It looks like there was a rush to get the information out, and nobody thought to stop and confirm before they went to print internet.
If MU called the Cleveland Cavs to tell them that Jim Chones passed away, when he hadn't, I'd blame MU as much as I'd blame the Cavs for releasing the information.
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Yea, but by that logic, isn't the school to blame? They are the ones who contacted the Vikings and said he died. Why are the Vikings expected to double check sources if the school and/or AP doesn't?
Bingo.
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Bingo.
Whew! Glad we cleared that up. ;)
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Hamstring.
Although, I just looked again, and he did practice yesterday, so hopefully he can play.
Harvin is still dinged up, but I have a feeling he's going to be that way for the rest of the year and will just have to play through it.
Berrian, Rice and Harvin are not hall of famers, but have turned into a decent receiving corps if they can stay healthy.
As a Vikings fan, are you happy with Berrian so far? His bonus money sku's this, but last year he was the 12th highest paid player in the league (not 12th highest paid receiver, but 12th highest paid player overall).
Just wondering if he is justifying the ungodly amount of money the Vikes paid him.
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So are you saying he makes to much money for a guy that has not been to a pro bowl? (at least not that I can remember)
I was sad to see him leave Chicago, but for the amount of money he was wanting on his new deal it didn't make any sense.
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I would hope so.
I'm no journalist, but isnt breaking news supposed to be confirmed by 2 sources?
Hopefully karma comes back around this Sunday, from 3:15 PM until 6:30 PM
You're right. Vikings.com should have waited to see a death certificate.
Big game. Some folks here are saying they think the division is done if the Consensus Vikings win - anyone agree? I think it's still too early. Obviously it would put us in a great position, but I wouldn't claim the title quite yet.
We did well with Winfield out last weekend against a great QB, but I'm afraid Erin has had time to breakdown what we did and may have a great day (except for getting sacked 5 to 8 times) in terms of yardage. Really hoping AD can have a big afternoon.
SKOL VIKINGS! Vikings 27, Green Bey 21
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As a Vikings fan, are you happy with Berrian so far? His bonus money sku's this, but last year he was the 12th highest paid player in the league (not 12th highest paid receiver, but 12th highest paid player overall).
Just wondering if he is justifying the ungodly amount of money the Vikes paid him.
I like him as a player. He's productive on the field, and seems like a pretty thoughtful guy when interviewed.
He is certainly overpaid, but like most sports (up until last year) teams had to overpay to get free agents.
So, while I think he is technically "overpaid", I also know that most free agents are, so I'm fine with his current salary vs performance ratio.
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This game will more than likely determine the direction of the division for the rest of season. Will the Vikes take control of the driver's seat, or will the Packers bring it back to tied (barring a setback at TB) with 8 to play? Oh, and there's the Favre story, too. It's going to be a fun weekend.
What's the word on Winfield? I thought he was out at least a month, but some of the GB Newspapers are saying that he's questionable and the reports about him being out for a long period of time are erroneous.
* The Vikings listed Favre as a limited participant in practice with a hip problem, but that's the least of their injury issues. Three starters -- CB Antoine Winfield (right foot), WR Bernard Berrian (left hamstring) and MLB E.J. Henderson (knee) -- missed practice, and Winfield and Berrian both appear questionable at best for Sunday.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/insider/index.shtml
I thought Winfield wasn't even a consideration at this point. Having Paymah in the lineup over him is a huge advantage to Green Bay. He's the one scary player in that secondary.
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You're right. Vikings.com should have waited to see a death certificate.
Big game. Some folks here are saying they think the division is done if the Consensus Vikings win - anyone agree? I think it's still too early. Obviously it would put us in a great position, but I wouldn't claim the title quite yet.
We did well with Winfield out last weekend against a great QB, but I'm afraid Erin has had time to breakdown what we did and may have a great day (except for getting sacked 5 to 8 times) in terms of yardage. Really hoping AD can have a big afternoon.
SKOL VIKINGS! Vikings 27, Green Bey 21
If the Vikes win I think they take the division... unless they have a key injury or two.
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This game will more than likely determine the direction of the division for the rest of season. Will the Vikes take control of the driver's seat, or will the Packers bring it back to tied (barring a setback at TB) with 8 to play? Oh, and there's the Favre story, too. It's going to be a fun weekend.
What's the word on Winfield? I thought he was out at least a month, but some of the GB Newspapers are saying that he's questionable and the reports about him being out for a long period of time are erroneous.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/insider/index.shtml
I thought Winfield wasn't even a consideration at this point. Having Paymah in the lineup over him is a huge advantage to Green Bay. He's the one scary player in that secondary.
If Winfield comes back for this game, he will look like a hero...
Whether or not that is by design, I will allow you to decide on your own ;)
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Big game. Some folks here are saying they think the division is done if the Consensus Vikings win - anyone agree? I think it's still too early. Obviously it would put us in a great position, but I wouldn't claim the title quite yet.
We did well with Winfield out last weekend against a great QB, but I'm afraid Erin has had time to breakdown what we did and may have a great day (except for getting sacked 5 to 8 times) in terms of yardage. Really hoping AD can have a big afternoon.
I don't think it would be completely over, but it would be VERY tough for the Bears or the Packers to come back, especially the Packers. The Vikings would have essentially a 3 game lead on the Packers. I do think that the Packers realistically could win all 5 of their games following the Minnesota game, with the toughest being the Ravens (which will be very tough, but it's a home game - other games are at Buccaneers, Cowboys - will be tough but at home - 49ers, and at Lions). I think we lose 3 of the last 4 at Bears, at Steelers, and at Cardinals and beat the Seahawks at home. So somehow pulling off 6 straight (well 8 in a row including the last 2 wins) looks very important.
I think the Bears only real chance is to beat the Packers at home (which I think they should but who knows), and then to beat Minnesota both times they play, which I don't think will happen. The Bears have a pretty darn tough schedule left. Gimme games with the Rams, Browns, and at Lions, but their other remaining games are pretty tough. Arizona at home (should win at home but Arizona is looking good), at San Francisco (tough on the road but not looking as good as earlier this season), Philli at home, at Vikings, vs. Packers, at Ravens, and vs. Vikings. Those are some tough games.
Minnesota has some tough games left but not as many as the Bears, and with a (essentially) 3 game lead on the Packers I wouldn't expect them to lose that lead on them. Detroit, Seattle, and at Carolina seem like gimme games. Chicago at home should be a win, Cinci at home should be a win but they're strong, at Arizona is tough, at Chicago is tough, and New York is tough but at home.
Essentially I think the Packers have the easiest schedule remaining but if we lose to the Vikings that'd be tough to come back from. The Bears appear to have the toughest schedule left but if they can take both of their games against the Vikings then they are obviously in a pretty good spot.
Let's go Pack!
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cincy is not a win for the vikes later in the year, Palmer should be able to put up big numbers that game.
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cincy is not a win for the vikes later in the year, Palmer should be able to put up big numbers that game.
I hope so but it's a home game and I almost expect Palmer to get hurt at some point in this season, so he may not even be playing. I also expect Adrian Peterson to get hurt at some point this season. He runs too hard to go this long without an injury and he was so injury-prone in college.
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I hope so but it's a home game and I almost expect Palmer to get hurt at some point in this season, so he may not even be playing. I also expect Adrian Peterson to get hurt at some point this season. He runs too hard to go this long without an injury and he was so injury-prone in college.
I was unaware I was dealing with such a talented clairvoyant.
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I hope so but it's a home game and I almost expect Palmer to get hurt at some point in this season, so he may not even be playing. I also expect Adrian Peterson to get hurt at some point this season. He runs too hard to go this long without an injury and he was so injury-prone in college.
Injury-prone. I hate that expression.
He missed a handful of games in college, most of which were his jr season due to his flip. He has missed 2 games so far out of 39 possible, so I don't quite get the injury prone thing.
I expect A Rodg to get hurt at some point since it has been so long since he has been hurt and since his O-Line can't keep his jersey clean.
I would argue Favre is injury prone, but it hasn't kept him out of any games, so what does it matter?
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I don't think it would be completely over, but it would be VERY tough for the Bears or the Packers to come back, especially the Packers. The Vikings would have essentially a 3 game lead on the Packers. I do think that the Packers realistically could win all 5 of their games following the Minnesota game, with the toughest being the Ravens (which will be very tough, but it's a home game - other games are at Buccaneers, Cowboys - will be tough but at home - 49ers, and at Lions). I think we lose 3 of the last 4 at Bears, at Steelers, and at Cardinals and beat the Seahawks at home. So somehow pulling off 6 straight (well 8 in a row including the last 2 wins) looks very important.
I think the Bears only real chance is to beat the Packers at home (which I think they should but who knows), and then to beat Minnesota both times they play, which I don't think will happen. The Bears have a pretty darn tough schedule left. Gimme games with the Rams, Browns, and at Lions, but their other remaining games are pretty tough. Arizona at home (should win at home but Arizona is looking good), at San Francisco (tough on the road but not looking as good as earlier this season), Philli at home, at Vikings, vs. Packers, at Ravens, and vs. Vikings. Those are some tough games.
Minnesota has some tough games left but not as many as the Bears, and with a (essentially) 3 game lead on the Packers I wouldn't expect them to lose that lead on them. Detroit, Seattle, and at Carolina seem like gimme games. Chicago at home should be a win, Cinci at home should be a win but they're strong, at Arizona is tough, at Chicago is tough, and New York is tough but at home.
Essentially I think the Packers have the easiest schedule remaining but if we lose to the Vikings that'd be tough to come back from. The Bears appear to have the toughest schedule left but if they can take both of their games against the Vikings then they are obviously in a pretty good spot.
Let's go Pack!
I'm a Bears fan, and you have much more confidence in the Bears than I do. Only thing going in the Bears favor is the amount of home games they have remaining.
Bears problems all start up front. As I've stated on here before, Tommie Harris isn't long to be a Bear or NFL player much longer. His position in the Tampa 2 is the most important clog on the field. The injury to Urlacher hurt, but to me losing Tinoisamoa really hurt them a ton. Not that Pisa set the world on fire, but it really challenged their depth. Don't even get me started on their safetys.
Offensively, the Pace/Omiyale signins clearly are not working out. Omiyale has been replaced by Beekman this week (about 3 weeks too late). Everyone assumed their receiver play would be poor and the glaring hole on offense, but to the contrary, they've been a plus. It's hard to get a running game going when defenders are two yards into the backfield before the handoff takes place. I'd rather have the Packers o-line to be honest.
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I don't think the bears are out of it, but they'd have to get on a huge roll to make something happen.
Their defense is 2 years past its prime, and while the offense is decent, it's not good enough to score a ton of points to win tough road games.
The Packers are definitely in the hunt with a win on Sunday. With a loss, the division race isn't over, but really they'd have to hope for a Viking collapse (has happened before).
The Vikes could take control with a win. With a loss and with the way the schedule sets up, the Vikes will have fight with the Packers all year.
The real spoiler in all of this is probably Detroit. They will probably go 1-5 or 2-4 in the division. The question is: who do they beat?
If the Packers sweep detroit, and MN goes 1-1, that could swing the division. Be on the look out for spoilers.
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http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/126390-vikings-coach-dressed-in-drag?eref=sihp
That's cute.
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Forget Favre and Rodgers...Vikings D-line, good. Packers O-line, not good. Game over (and the Packers probably looking for a new coach this off season).
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(and the Packers probably looking for a new coach this off season).
I hope to God they are. McCarthy is one of the worst play-callers I've ever seen
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I hope to God they are. McCarthy is one of the worst play-callers I've ever seen
Not even sure they should wait for the off season, this team plays like crap! Really a weak effort in a game they had to have (For the division, the Favre crap means nothing.).
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Turnovers are killing the Vikes right now (10 pts).
The clock can't run fast enough.
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Why in the hell do you try a 51 yd FG? Just go for it on 4th. McCarthy's gotta go, and I would do it tomorrow. Vikings are obviously a better team, but just a terrible job...got beat in all facets. If not for a couple turnovers, they got pounded. Jared Allen unblocked?!?!?!
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Could we protect Rodgers? How about a couple of screens? Capers....overrated. Adjustments way too late.
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I thought the Pack showed a lot of heart, they could have been blown out, they got some turnovers and made this a good game. 51 yard FG decision didn't make sense, and the Pack may have been able to overturn that Dugan (Duggan?) TD late, can't remember if it was timeouts or challenges they were out of.
Pack still very much in the playoff race (and I'm a Bears fan saying this). Bears had perhaps the ugliest/boringest 30-6 win in NFL history today.
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Pack still very much in the playoff race (and I'm a Bears fan saying this). Bears had perhaps the ugliest/boringest 30-6 win in NFL history today.
I agree they still have a decent shot at the playoffs, but they just are not a good team.
I felt the same way (not) watching the Packers play the Lions and the Browns...those games should not be allowed on television. Absolutely terrible teams.
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I thought the Pack showed a lot of heart, they could have been blown out, they got some turnovers and made this a good game. 51 yard FG decision didn't make sense, and the Pack may have been able to overturn that Dugan (Duggan?) TD late, can't remember if it was timeouts or challenges they were out of.
Pack still very much in the playoff race (and I'm a Bears fan saying this). Bears had perhaps the ugliest/boringest 30-6 win in NFL history today.
As a bears fan I must concur.
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Ok, first, I have to admit that I was wrong. I thought the Vikings would drop this game and pee down there leg.
I didn't think the Vikes could pull it off. They are a good team, but the pass defense (especially without Winfield) is brutal.
Rodgers once again sliced and diced them when he had time, which is concerning if the Vikes really have playoff aspirations.
Now, I also have to say that this is the exact type of game that Favre was signed for. MN jumps out to a lead, and then the home team gets all of the momentum and mounts a great comeback.
#4 certainly isn't what he used to be, but he has a steady hand and did a very nice job of capitalizing on Harvin's return(s) and AP's long screen pass. I don't think Jackson would have been able to play that well in those circumstances. (in the second half with the Packers breathing down the Vikings neck)
Also, from the look at the Vikes locker room after the game, it appears like they "like" Brett. But, when you win, it covers up any of the "schisms" that may have developed... so I still think that Brett is a diva with a hug ego, but he's a WINNING diva, so it all gets covered up in high fives and hugs.
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Biggest surprise of the year is Percy Harvin, not just in the NFL North, but in the whole league (I guess Cedric Benson could have a good argument). Percy Harvin just tore the Packers yesterday, returning and receiving.
Game. Set. Match Favre
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Ok, first, I have to admit that I was wrong. I thought the Vikings would drop this game and pee down there leg.
I didn't think the Vikes could pull it off. They are a good team, but the pass defense (especially without Winfield) is brutal.
Rodgers once again sliced and diced them when he had time, which is concerning if the Vikes really have playoff aspirations.
Now, I also have to say that this is the exact type of game that Favre was signed for. MN jumps out to a lead, and then the home team gets all of the momentum and mounts a great comeback.
#4 certainly isn't what he used to be, but he has a steady hand and did a very nice job of capitalizing on Harvin's return(s) and AP's long screen pass. I don't think Jackson would have been able to play that well in those circumstances. (in the second half with the Packers breathing down the Vikings neck)
Also, from the look at the Vikes locker room after the game, it appears like they "like" Brett. But, when you win, it covers up any of the "schisms" that may have developed... so I still think that Brett is a diva with a hug ego, but he's a WINNING diva, so it all gets covered up in high fives and hugs.
I got to disagree. 2002, you must be a packers fan. As a Bears fan, i have to give MN their due. Outside of NO, I don't see too many other teams in the NFC that you could honestly consider better than MN. Even with Winfield out I think their pass rush helps cover up an inadequate secondary. With regards to Favre...he may not move like Aaron Rodgers but his arm strength looks just as strong as it did years ago. Pending any serious injuries, ie like a biceps tendon tear, he seems more than capable of keeping MN in games...hopefully, he lays an egg against Chicago but i don't see that happening.
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I got to disagree. 2002, you must be a packers fan. As a Bears fan, i have to give MN their due. Outside of NO, I don't see too many other teams in the NFC that you could honestly consider better than MN. Even with Winfield out I think their pass rush helps cover up an inadequate secondary. With regards to Favre...he may not move like Aaron Rodgers but his arm strength looks just as strong as it did years ago. Pending any serious injuries, ie like a biceps tendon tear, he seems more than capable of keeping MN in games...hopefully, he lays an egg against Chicago but i don't see that happening.
actually, he is a Vikings fan.
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I got to disagree. 2002, you must be a packers fan. As a Bears fan, i have to give MN their due. Outside of NO, I don't see too many other teams in the NFC that you could honestly consider better than MN. Even with Winfield out I think their pass rush helps cover up an inadequate secondary. With regards to Favre...he may not move like Aaron Rodgers but his arm strength looks just as strong as it did years ago. Pending any serious injuries, ie like a biceps tendon tear, he seems more than capable of keeping MN in games...hopefully, he lays an egg against Chicago but i don't see that happening.
Well, A Rodg just put a 110 and a 108 QB rating on the Vikes in 2 games.
The Vikes are good, but as a Vikings fan, I'd be very nervous to play against the saints, colts, patriots and I wouldn't count out the Cardinals or the Falcons.
Teams can throw the ball on the Vikings. Part of that is by design, as stopping the run is the priority, (followed by the pass rush); but the overall pass defense isn't great. It's pretty good, but not great.
If an opposing team can go max protect, they will be able to move the ball up and down the field against the Vikings. Rodgers attempted 41 passes and none of them were close to being picked. Credit to ARodge, but it also makes me nervous that he could drop back that many times without the Vikings getting their hands on one. (they only tipped a few)
As a fan, I'm certainly happy with the team's performance, but I'm still cautious due to the pass defense.
EDIT: Also, Flaco threw the ball 40+ times with no picks and had a rating above 105. Big Ben only had an 87 rating, but again, no INTs.
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Don't count out the Eagles too. They beat the Vikings last year in Minnesota and could do it again.
Favre has been huge for the Vikings obviously, but if you switch quarterbacks, the result is the same. I think the least of Green Bay's problems are at the QB position.
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Don't count out the Eagles too. They beat the Vikings last year in Minnesota and could do it again.
Favre has been huge for the Vikings obviously, but if you switch quarterbacks, the result is the same. I think the least of Green Bay's problems are at the QB position.
Good point about McNabb.
As far as if the QBs were swapped, you're right. ARodge didn't lost that game for the Pack. Rodgers is good. Still a little green (needs to get rid of the ball!), but he's a very good player.
With this said, as each week goes by, I think it becomes more and more obvious that Brett can still play, and he can even play a smarter and less risky style that many people said he couldn't.
It's only week 8, so we'll see what happens in the second half. Maybe he'll start chucking it all over the field... who knows.
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Good point about McNabb.
As far as if the QBs were swapped, you're right. ARodge didn't lost that game for the Pack. Rodgers is good. Still a little green (needs to get rid of the ball!), but he's a very good player.
With this said, as each week goes by, I think it becomes more and more obvious that Brett can still play, and he can even play a smarter and less risky style that many people said he couldn't.
It's only week 8, so we'll see what happens in the second half. Maybe he'll start chucking it all over the field... who knows.
I'd agree... the Packer's problem lies completely in the coaching department. So many errors, poor calls, and all around inconsistancy. No one but the coaches to blame here.
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No one but the coaches to blame here.
I would add Ted Thompson's inability to draft O-linemen, but otherwise I agree. I have lost all faith in McCarthy.
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I stand corrected. My apologies, 2002.
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I would add Ted Thompson's inability to draft O-linemen, but otherwise I agree. I have lost all faith in McCarthy.
+1
You can only use the goodwill built up on the Woodson signing for so much...
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I think we are burying the lead. And that is: How much Brett Favre loves the game of football. You can see the joy on his face. He's like a kid out there.
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I stand corrected. My apologies, 2002.
Ha. No apology needed. I wasn't offended, and I realize how my post came across.
I'm just trying to be honest with my own favorite team.
I'm excited about their performance so far (who wouldn't be excited about 7-1), but before I'm not going to puff my chest out too much after seeing the way the pass defense has played.
The Vikes are very good, but to be an elite team, they have to play better defense and ultimately intercept more passes. They only have 6 picks this season, which is a little surprising considering how many leads they have had and how many passing attempts they have gone against.
For comparison, Buffalo is top (or bottom I suppose) in the league with 279 passing attempts against. The Vikes are second with 276.
Buffalo however has 15 picks while the Vikes only have 6.
Now, for the record, Buffalo isn't a good team, so maybe this stat is worthless... but nevertheless, the INT rate is concerning if the Vikes are going to be an elite team.
It's not enough to sack a QB a few times (although that helps), but when an opposing throws it 35+ times, they have to pick off at least one of those (especially with the pressure the D-line is creating).
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+1
You can only use the goodwill built up on the Woodson signing for so much...
Thompson can draft, but he obviously missed the part where his mentor also had the ability to sign some pretty key free agents. In '96, the Packers started Andre Rison, Bruce Wilkerson, Eugene Robinson, Santana Dotson and Reggie White to name a few. They also had Kieth Jackson coming off the bench. That is at least three all-Pros right there.
Thompson has signed Woodson...late because no one else really wanted him.
I look at Jarred Allen - there is no reason why Green Bay couldn't have made some similar trade during the 2008 draft. But instead they traded down to get Jordy Nelson (who's a nice player) and a couple of other picks that are also probably nice players. But there isn't a true impact player among them.
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I think we are burying the lead. And that is: How much Brett Favre loves the game of football. You can see the joy on his face. He's like a kid out there.
He's farting in the huddle...look at that smile!
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I agree with pretty much everything that has been said on here. Especially about losing all faith in McCarthy. I also agree with the Eagles. I would put the top 3 teams in the NFC as 1. Saints 2. Vikings and 3. Eagles. I will say, though, that I think the Eagles have a higher ceiling than the Vikings. I think the Vikings are a more consistent football team, but the when the Eagles are hot they are HOT.
Congratulations Jayj, how do you want your money? The Vikings are easily the best team the Packers have seen this year, and Chilli has far outcoached McCarthy in both games, which is quite sad. Your boys are looking good. Favre's playing smarter than he ever has, and All Day AP is a man among boys. And life is just too easy for Jerad Allen when he plays the Packers.
I still think, with the way their schedule shapes up, that the Packers make the playoffs, and possibly win a Wild Card round game. I no longer see them in an NFC Championship game, though.
Rodgers is a hell of a quarterback, but he's still in his second year as a starter and makes his mistakes (most glaringly, taking too many sacks and always looking for the home run play rather than taking what the defense is giving him and making the drop off throw).
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One other thing...
My wife is a very sweet woman, but during Packer games, she is basically a running stream of insults ("Johnny Jolly you pretty boy!!!") and physical threats against the other team ("C'mon...break Favre's legs!!!") After 20 years of marriage, it has become part of the Sunday landscape in our household.
Yesterday she got off a good one on Brad Childress: "If Papa Smurf were a pedophile, that's what he'd look like."
I'm still laughing about that one today.
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I just remembered something, I also have to admit that I was wrong about the Packer reception of Favre and his family.
I expected much worse than the booing and such. I was expecting some sort of serious prank/stunt/criminal act. (ie calls to his family, vandalism, etc.)
I was wrong. Packer fans were pretty good about everything.
I know it doesn't make the loss any easier, but at least no knucklehead (it one takes 1) did something really stupid.
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I just remembered something, I also have to admit that I was wrong about the Packer reception of Favre and his family.
I expected much worse than the booing and such. I was expecting some sort of serious prank/stunt/criminal act. (ie calls to his family, vandalism, etc.)
I was wrong. Packer fans were pretty good about everything.
I know it doesn't make the loss any easier, but at least no knucklehead (it one takes 1) did something really stupid.
Packer fans are notoriously classy comparied to most every other rabid fan base.
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Packer fans are notoriously classy comparied to most every other rabid fan base.
Well, as I said in the other thread, I've run into my share of less than classy packer fans, and I was betting that something weird would happen when Favre came to town.
I'm happy to admit that I was wrong and it appears that there were no major incidents.
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Well, as I said in the other thread, I've run into my share of less than classy packer fans, and I was betting that something weird would happen when Favre came to town.
I'm happy to admit that I was wrong and it appears that there were no major incidents.
I'm glad nothing happened as well. When it comes down to it, this town is all about football, and helping get this team a win. That meant making life as hard as possible for Favre... on the field. I don't think many people (or hopefully any at all) harbored intentions of doing something stupid to Favre.
It would have been interesting to be at Lambeau on Sunday. It sounds like the place was really rocking, especially during the frantic comeback and three-and-out that gave the Packers a chance to actually take the lead. I wonder how many Vikings fans actually got their hands on tickets.
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It would have been interesting to be at Lambeau on Sunday. It sounds like the place was really rocking, especially during the frantic comeback and three-and-out that gave the Packers a chance to actually take the lead. I wonder how many Vikings fans actually got their hands on tickets.
Tough game, MIN is a very good team. The focus for GB now becomes the Wild Card...
I was in Lambeau on Sunday. The atmosphere was great, until Jonny Jollly decided a head butt would be a smart thing to do...That personal foul took alot of the juice out of the team/fans.
Things did pick up in the 3rd quarter, when GB made the run...but again, when AD had the big gain on the screen pass, it sucked the life out of the GB fans.
Alot of Vikings fans there...
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That meant making life as hard as possible for Favre... on the field.
If only the Packer defense had shared that goal.
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I'm glad nothing happened as well. When it comes down to it, this town is all about football, and helping get this team a win. That meant making life as hard as possible for Favre... on the field. I don't think many people (or hopefully any at all) harbored intentions of doing something stupid to Favre.
I agree with you, but it only takes one drunk wingnut to ruin it for everybody (regardless of the team), and that's what I was afraid of.
I know most fans are reasonable, but I imagined some fool messing with deanna's hotel room or somebody making threatening phone calls, etc.
I'm not saying this because I think poorly of GB fans, I'm saying this because I think drunk, foolish people take things way too far.
Anyways, credit to the GB fans and the local authorities for making everything go smoothly.
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I'm glad nothing happened as well. When it comes down to it, this town is all about football, and helping get this team a win. That meant making life as hard as possible for Favre... on the field. I don't think many people (or hopefully any at all) harbored intentions of doing something stupid to Favre.
It would have been interesting to be at Lambeau on Sunday. It sounds like the place was really rocking, especially during the frantic comeback and three-and-out that gave the Packers a chance to actually take the lead. I wonder how many Vikings fans actually got their hands on tickets.
The boos were the loudest in the first half, after that it was pretty much yelling as loud as you could to do anything to get them out of rhythm...fun game to be at, no doubt, just wish the result was better.
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Tough game, MIN is a very good team. The focus for GB now becomes the Wild Card...
I was in Lambeau on Sunday. The atmosphere was great, until Jonny Jollly decided a head butt would be a smart thing to do...That personal foul took alot of the juice out of the team/fans.
Things did pick up in the 3rd quarter, when GB made the run...but again, when AD had the big gain on the screen pass, it sucked the life out of the GB fans.
Alot of Vikings fans there...
My thought was this, out of all the purple that was there (and there was quite a bit), how many of them were wearing green last year? My guess is, quite a bit.
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So the focus for GB switches to the wild card. Hopefully I'm not too premature in saying that we should get victories against the Bucs and the Lions. That gives us six wins, and leaves us with: Dallas, Baltimore, @ Pittsburgh, San Francisco, @ Chicago, @ Arizona.
My feelings are that the Packers need four of those six to make the playoffs. What do you say, Packer fans (and others in the Intelligent, Civilized Discussion thread)?
Another interesting thing to note... should this team make it to the playoffs, their chances for success come almost fully down to protecting Aaron Rodgers.
Given the importance of this: http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2623_The_mighty_CHFF_interception_ladder.html
...our QB should be built for extended playoff success. He just doesn't commit turnovers. Now everyone else needs to pick up the slack.
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...our QB should be built for extended playoff success. He just doesn't commit turnovers. Now everyone else needs to pick up the slack.
If he's still alive at the end of the season...
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So the focus for GB switches to the wild card. Hopefully I'm not too premature in saying that we should get victories against the Bucs and the Lions. That gives us six wins, and leaves us with: Dallas, Baltimore, @ Pittsburgh, San Francisco, @ Chicago, @ Arizona.
My feelings are that the Packers need four of those six to make the playoffs. What do you say, Packer fans (and others in the Intelligent, Civilized Discussion thread)?
Another interesting thing to note... should this team make it to the playoffs, their chances for success come almost fully down to protecting Aaron Rodgers.
Given the importance of this: http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2623_The_mighty_CHFF_interception_ladder.html
...our QB should be built for extended playoff success. He just doesn't commit turnovers. Now everyone else needs to pick up the slack.
Packers are still talented, and are still very tough at home.
The offensive line is obviously the biggest concern. Not only because it makes the offense ineffective, but they are going to get Rodgers killed. 1 bad hit and the season is effectively over for the Packers.
The interesting thing is that this has been a problem all year, and the coaches can't seem to gameplan around it. I'm not a NFL coordinator, but I do know there are ways to slow down a great pass rush (screen pass, draw play, etc.).
Maybe they just can't execute those type of plays.
Lastly, it seems like Grant gets better as the year goes on, so maybe he'll get hot in the second 1/2 of the season.
It's not ridiculous to think that the Packers can go 6-3 in the second 1/2.
I think the Vikes will drop at game (or 2) that they shouldn't, so they will probably be 12-4.
But, a major injury to either team would certainly change everything.
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another major problem (that the JS finally pointed out today) is that the Packers are extremely slow out of the gate. They rarely are the first to score, and have to play from behind all game.
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Packers are still talented, and are still very tough at home.
The offensive line is obviously the biggest concern. Not only because it makes the offense ineffective, but they are going to get Rodgers killed. 1 bad hit and the season is effectively over for the Packers.
The interesting thing is that this has been a problem all year, and the coaches can't seem to gameplan around it. I'm not a NFL coordinator, but I do know there are ways to slow down a great pass rush (screen pass, draw play, etc.).
Maybe they just can't execute those type of plays.
Lastly, it seems like Grant gets better as the year goes on, so maybe he'll get hot in the second 1/2 of the season.
It's not ridiculous to think that the Packers can go 6-3 in the second 1/2.
I think the Vikes will drop at game (or 2) that they shouldn't, so they will probably be 12-4.
But, a major injury to either team would certainly change everything.
I should say that I was incorrect - sort of - with my assessment of our schedule. We get Seattle at home in there too. I'll throw that in as a "gimme", though it'll be a step harder than the Bucs and Lions will. So thats SEVEN wins. We'll need three of those six listed to get to 10, and a probable wild card.
Mualum, I agree with just about everything in your post. Especially the part about the ways to slow down a great pass rush (which, in our case, is EVERY pass rush we face). As one who probably watches too much Packer football, let me give my opinion. The supposed draw of going to zone blocking was that it required smaller, quicker, more agile linemen. I didn't like the sound of that when we made the switch, given that we play on a natural surface in a poor weather climate for much of the season, but the change was made.
So we don't have big, strong enough guys to buckle down and hold their ground when good defensive lines (like Minnesota) have the ability to let the dogs go, so to speak, in the pass rush. That's why getting a lead is incredibly important. They move okay laterally, but when they have to backpedal against a team that knows we're passing every down, they're going to get run over.
The worst part about it is, four of our five lineman are flat out AWFUL in space. For anyone who has tried to watch us run a screen since 2006, they see that Tauscher and Clifton can no longer move in space because age is catching up to them, and any combination of Spitz, Wells, and Sitton at center and right guard just don't have the ability to find blockers on a screen pass or any sort of pulling running play. Spitz is particularly awful. For visual evidence, see the '07 NFC Championship where a late first half screen to Brandon Jackson SHOULD HAVE gone for a touchdown, with only Antonio Pierce and no less than three Green Bay blockers stood between him and the end zone. Pierce knifed in and made the play for a loss of five without getting touched. The same scenario became commonplace in the year and a half of football we've seen since. If we were going to make a trade off for size and strength, they better damn well be mobile and smart, and they are neither of those things.
Luckily, Colledge seems to have gotten it. Of the five starting linemen right now, I think he's the only one that should remain a starter on this team when Clifton and Tauscher finally meet their end.
One high draft pick on a tackle and some FA money on a quality starting guard would be a great first step to moving this line in the right direction in as little as one season. Guys like Barbre, Giacomini, Wells and Spitz just aren't the long term answers, at least not if we want anything that resembles an elite offense.
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completely agree.
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Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams. Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.
This year, GB is not a contender. Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams.
I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.
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Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams. Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.
This year, GB is not a contender. Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams.
I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.
Many would have said that Arizona last year was fodder for the contenders, and they were one incorrect TD call away from a Superbowl victory. Weak teams try to get there because you never know what can happen.
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Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams. Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.
This year, GB is not a contender. Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams.
I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.
Wild Card teams have gotten hot and made deep playoff runs many times. Look at the Giants two years ago...they won three road games to get to the SB. This isn't like the NBA where all the draft talent is at the top and mediocre teams never get better. Making the playoffs and having a young team experience that atmosphere is important. And who knows what can happen when you get there.
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Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams. Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.
This year, GB is not a contender. Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams.
I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.
So what you're saying is that all but 4 or 5 teams this year should just quit trying so hard and start maneuvering for a better draft position? This seems a little asinine in my opinion.
Teams get hot, you never know what can happen in the playoffs. As others have pointed out, all you need to look at is recent history.
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Many would have said that Arizona last year was fodder for the contenders, and they were one incorrect TD call away from a Superbowl victory. Weak teams try to get there because you never know what can happen.
+1,
Also, a healthy wildcard team vs. an injured division champ would certainly be a good game.
Injuries are a huge factor.
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Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams. Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.
This year, GB is not a contender. Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams.
I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I)
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The return of Tauscher and Clifton may have an influence. I hope we make the playoffs with those guys healthy and play the Vikes again...anywhere.
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The return of Tauscher and Clifton may have an influence. I hope we make the playoffs with those guys healthy and play the Vikes again...anywhere.
This isn't five years ago...neither are what they once were.
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This isn't five years ago...neither are what they once were.
Neither are TJ Lang (a rookie), or Allen Barbre (crappy) either, so its an upgrade.
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Never should have let Mark Wahle walk, or did he want too much money?
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Mike Wahle had one good year after he left, and is now retired.
Same with Marco Rivera (retired)
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A couple things... Thompson made the right decision to not pony up for Wahle or Rivera. Doing so would have just compounded our problems. Rivera blew out his knee right away, and Wahle was okay for a year before hitting a wall, as previously mentioned. The issue comes in who Ted chose to replace them. I'm not sure how many of you know this, but Ted Thompson has spent more of his resources on the offensive line than any other position group on the team. Unfortunately, despite the guy's eye for talent at skill positions, he just doesn't seem to have it in the trenches on the offensive side of the ball. Maybe a high draft pick (as opposed to a steady stream of 4th and 5th round projects) or an upper tier offensive line free agent would do the trick. Or maybe James Campen needs to be shown the door.
As far as the discussion about playing for the playoffs... you want to establish a winning culture in the organization. Having a lax attitude just because you aren't an elite team won't bode well in the future. Learning to win is a process.
The league is in a strange place right now. The playoff results since the realignment have made every team going into the playoffs a contender, and dominant teams just don't exist with the regularity that they used to. As I say that, we have Denver, New Orleans and Indy hanging around as undefeated teams through week 7 for the first time in NFL history, and about five teams that show no capability to beat anybody other than each other (Cleveland, Oakland, Kansas City, St. Louis, and Detroit).
Despite the fact that parity seems to be taking a back seat this year (and in special instances like the Patriots '07 season and the Lions '08 season), it's much easier for a wild card team to roll into the playoffs and make major noise compared to a decade ago.
http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2631_Playoff_chaos?_Blame_realignment.html
http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2637_Moral_hazard_and_the_modern_playoffs.html
Take a look at those articles for some really interesting stuff.
To pull out some of the important stuff...
From 1970 to 2001, home teams had a winning record in the postseason in every single year but two (1971, 1992), when the split the playoff slate 50-50.
In 2005, just the fourth year of realignment, home teams suffered a losing record (4-6) for the first time in history. Last year, home teams went just .500. And, no matter what happens next weekend in the conference championship games, home teams (currently 3-5) will do no better than .500 this year.
That's two .500 postseasons in the 32 years from 1970 to 2001, and three .500 (or worse) postseasons in the last four years.
Anyone else sense a disturbance in the football force? Well, here it is:
Home teams won 70.4 percent of playoff games (190-80) from the merger in 1970 to the last year of the old alignment in 2001.
Home teams have won just 58.8 percent of playoff games (40-28) from the realignment of 2002 until today.
Home teams have won just 52.6 percent of playoff games (20-18) since 2004, easily the worst four years for home teams in NFL postseason history.
If the Ravens and Eagles win next Sunday, clearly a possibility, 2008 will easily go down as the worst year for home teams in NFL postseason history (3-7).
and...
Consider the chaos of the past four years, and the unlikely champions it’s yielded:
The 2005 Steelers were the first No. 6 seed to win a Super Bowl and the first team to win the Super Bowl without the benefit of a home playoff game. The 2005 Steelers, in other words, were an anomaly by historic standards.
The 2006 Colts entered the playoffs with the worst run defense the NFL had seen since the expansion Vikings of 1961 (Indy surrendered an awful 5.33 YPA) and a unit that surrendered 360 points that year. It was the worst defense of any Super Bowl champion. The 2006 Colts, in other words, were an anomaly by historic standards.
The 2007 Giants were a 10-6 team that outscored opponents by a mere 22 points. Yet like another No. 6 seed, the Steelers two years earlier, the Giants won three straight road games before winning the Super Bowl. Their +22 scoring differential is the lowest of any Super Bowl champion and only the 2006 Colts (360 points) gave up more points than the Giants (351). The 2007 Giants, in other words, were an anomaly by historic standards.
The 2008 Cardinals are the latest Team Nobody Saw Coming – the anomalous Super Bowl contender that not only lost seven games this year, but lost many of them badly. The Cardinals were blown out by 21 points or more four times this year. They scored just one more point than the surrendered (427 to 426) and if they do win Sunday – remember, they get to play at home – they’ll easily be the worst team and the worst defensive club that’s ever reached a Super Bowl.
I really liked the old system because as the articles point out, it almost always ensured the best teams made the playoffs from each conference, and the best of the best were rewarded with home games. That's not the case under the current system. However, given the current make up of my own team, the new system plays more into my team's hands than before if we can learn to cover up our deficiencies between now and the end of the season.
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As I say that, we have Denver, New Orleans and Indy hanging around as undefeated teams through week 7 for the first time in NFL history, and about five teams that show no capability to beat anybody other than each other (Cleveland, Oakland, Kansas City, St. Louis, and Detroit).
Uh. Didn't Denver just get smoked, but that was in week 8 and your post talks about week 7. Almost looks like you cut and pasted the content out of an article.
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Uh. Didn't Denver just get smoked, but that was in week 8 and your post talks about week 7. Almost looks like you cut and pasted the content out of an article.
That info isn't from either of the articles, both were written last year during the playoffs. It should have read "had" three undefeated teams through week 7 for the first time ever, which was a stat I read in an article sometime during the middle of last week. My bad.
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Maybe a high draft pick (as opposed to a steady stream of 4th and 5th round projects) or an upper tier offensive line free agent would do the trick. Or maybe James Campen needs to be shown the door.
this is correct.
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Through 8 games:
Consensus Vikings 7-1 (3-0 div)
Chicago Bears 4-4 (1-1 div)
Green Bey Packers 4-4 (2-2 div)
Minnesota, coming off a bye week, will next face Detroit and Seattle, both at home.
Carolina up 14-0 on New Orleans.. go Panthers!!
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Aside from the fact that is is completely impractical, is there any reason Mike McCarthy should have a job tomorrow?
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The hour long Packers post-game "blitz" show on Fox6 should be fun to watch.
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Aside from the fact that is is completely impractical, is there any reason Mike McCarthy should have a job tomorrow?
only if he's a good burger flipper
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Aside from the fact that is is completely impractical, is there any reason Mike McCarthy should have a job tomorrow?
James Campen most certainly should not.
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No discipline...the most penalized team in the NFL.
The line can't block for sh!t
Play calling is garbage.
Defense can't get a stop
Time to clean house in Green Bay?
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No discipline...the most penalized team in the NFL.
The line can't block for sh!t
Play calling is garbage.
Defense can't get a stop
Time to clean house in Green Bay?
As far as I'm concerned, Thompson can stay. McCarthy and co., however, are a different story. Jay Bee, are we all squared away?
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Maybe this was McCarthy's way of making Favre look less impressive. By losing to a winless team the next week.
What Favre did against the Packers was less impressive than what a 21 yr old player did making his first start.
Brilliant, McCarthy!! And here I was starting to think you were just a terrible coach.
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As far as I'm concerned, Thompson can stay. McCarthy and co., however, are a different story. Jay Bee, are we all squared away?
I'm inclined to agree that coaching is a bigger problem than personnel, but Thompson isn't without some share of the blame.
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Thompson can draft fine, but he needs to be more aggressive in free agency. Ron Wolf drafted very well, but he added key pieces via free agency that Thompson seems unwilling to do. If that philosophy doesn't change, IMO they will plateau.
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Thompson can draft fine, but he needs to be more aggressive in free agency. Ron Wolf drafted very well, but he added key pieces via free agency that Thompson seems unwilling to do. If that philosophy doesn't change, IMO they will plateau.
Oh really? lets take at look at the packers vs vikings drafts the last 4 years
Vikings:
Percy Harvin
Phil Loadholt
Ashar Allen
Adrian Peterson
Sydney Rice
Chad Greenway
Cedric Griffen
Packers:
Raji-too early to tell
Matthews-could be great
Jordy Nelson-too early to tell
Brian Brohm-bust
Pat Lee-bust
Justin Harrell-bust
Brandon Jackson-bust
James Jones-ok
Aaron Rouse-bust
AJ Hawk-ok
Greg Jennings-great pick
Abdul Hodge-bust
Jason spitz-ok
thats one of the major differences in these two teams (btw im a huge pack fan)
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Oh really? lets take at look at the packers vs vikings drafts the last 4 years
Vikings:
Percy Harvin
Phil Loadholt
Ashar Allen
Adrian Peterson
Sydney Rice
Chad Greenway
Cedric Griffen
Packers:
Raji-too early to tell
Matthews-could be great
Jordy Nelson-too early to tell
Brian Brohm-bust
Pat Lee-bust
Justin Harrell-bust
Brandon Jackson-bust
James Jones-ok
Aaron Rouse-bust
AJ Hawk-ok
Greg Jennings-great pick
Abdul Hodge-bust
Jason spitz-ok
thats one of the major differences in these two teams (btw im a huge pack fan)
Must be a HUGE fan...only HUGE fans would have left out Aaron Rodgers and Nick Collins as a TT picks...
Moving on...Is there anyone out there that can convince me that GB can win 5 to 6 more games and stumble into the playoffs?
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Must be a HUGE fan...only HUGE fans would have left out Aaron Rodgers and Nick Collins as a TT picks...
Moving on...Is there anyone out there that can convince me that GB can win 5 to 6 more games and stumble into the playoffs?
With the level of discipline and execution we show on a weekly basis? Please...
It will be interesting to see how it is handled. Each has three years left on their deal after this season, and would be an expensive buy out. But they'd make that money back tenfold if they hired a tandem who could turn things around and become a contender. I don't think you can fire one or the other and have it work. Firing McCarthy and keeping Thompson means if you eventually decide Thompson isn't the right guy, you're left with a lame duck coach and a new GM, setting your franchise back even a few more years. If you keep McCarthy and fire Thompson, you create the lame duck situation immediately. Neither is desirable.
A guy I post with on another forum brought up another interesting point:
The worst part about it all, and this has nothing to do with today, is that teams DO NOT FEAR COMING TO LAMBEAU anymore. This used to be a game that every team in the league just marked as a L on their calender. Done deal. Not even worth talking about. Now it's just another game. This started under Sherman, and it's been made worse under TT.
And the reason is, none of these guys understand what it's like to be A PACKER.
Holmgren got it. Wolf got it. Reggie got it. I think Favre used to, but all the unnatural carnal knowledgeing Wrangler commercials and Blow Jobs from Madden have made him forget.
What franchise in ANY sport is like the Packers? Are you serious? A pro sport franchise that THRIVES in a city of 100,000 people? That's ridiculous. And during our magical run, it's was at least in a small part because guys like Wolf, Holmgren, and the players knew that being a Packer was just a touch different than playing pro sports in any other city.
That's gone. That 'magic' has been sucked out. To TT, this is just a job. To McCarthy, this is just a job. They don't get it, and maybe it's because I can't even put into words what it's supposed to be, that not everyone gets it.
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Must be a HUGE fan...only HUGE fans would have left out Aaron Rodgers and Nick Collins as a TT picks...
Moving on...Is there anyone out there that can convince me that GB can win 5 to 6 more games and stumble into the playoffs?
hey moron i have lived near green bay my entire life so i am a huge fan, and if you could read i said THE LAST 4 DRAFTS!!!
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Moving on...Is there anyone out there that can convince me that GB can win 5 to 6 more games and stumble into the playoffs?
Depends, how many times can you schedule the Bears. F***ing weak today in Chicago. And what the hell is Tommie Harris doing?! That was Florida Gator eye gouging subtle.
Jay Bee,
You accept paypal, personal check, or bartering?
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hey moron i have lived near green bay my entire life so i am a huge fan, and if you could read i said THE LAST 4 DRAFTS!!!
I dont care where you live.
Why would you include only the last 4 drafts? That makes a whole lot of sense...
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With the level of discipline and execution we show on a weekly basis? Please...
It will be interesting to see how it is handled. Each has three years left on their deal after this season, and would be an expensive buy out. But they'd make that money back tenfold if they hired a tandem who could turn things around and become a contender. I don't think you can fire one or the other and have it work. Firing McCarthy and keeping Thompson means if you eventually decide Thompson isn't the right guy, you're left with a lame duck coach and a new GM, setting your franchise back even a few more years. If you keep McCarthy and fire Thompson, you create the lame duck situation immediately. Neither is desirable.
Dont GMs usually get 2 chances to hire head coaches? That was what I always thought the standard was.
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Dont GMs usually get 2 chances to hire head coaches? That was what I always thought the standard was.
Jason Wilde on WKLH this morning said that since Mike Murphy didn't hire any of these guys, that either Thompson / McCarthy stay...or they go. They are pretty much a package deal.
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Time for McCarthy to be honest. I am so sick of his coach speak.
"We didn't do the right things and its a coaching thing and an execution thing"
great, so FIX IT. This is the 9th week of the season, and you still have this many coaching problems?
FIRE SLOCUM first of all. Maybe that will wake up the team of zombies playing special teams out there.
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Jason Wilde on WKLH this morning said that since Mike Murphy didn't hire any of these guys, that either Thompson / McCarthy stay...or they go. They are pretty much a package deal.
Rumors have been flying for awhile that health problems were only part of the reason that John Jones was let go. He wasn't really in line with Thompson's philosophies, so they brought in a president who would be. The same goes for why Andrew Brandt was let go. Now it appears that both of them may have been on the right track.
Point being, I doubt Murphy has the balls to buy out the contracts of Thompson and McCarthy three years early. We're stuck with them for next year at a bare minimum, and perhaps more. We'll be the youngest team in the league for a fourth straight year, and the accompanying mental mistakes with have that raw a roster will continue to rear their ugly head. I hope I'm wrong on this.
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A guy I post with on another forum brought up another interesting point:
The worst part about it all, and this has nothing to do with today, is that teams DO NOT FEAR COMING TO LAMBEAU anymore. This used to be a game that every team in the league just marked as a L on their calender. Done deal. Not even worth talking about. Now it's just another game. This started under Sherman, and it's been made worse under TT.
And the reason is, none of these guys understand what it's like to be A PACKER.
Holmgren got it. Wolf got it. Reggie got it. I think Favre used to, but all the fracking Wrangler commercials and Blow Jobs from Madden have made him forget.
What franchise in ANY sport is like the Packers? Are you serious? A pro sport franchise that THRIVES in a city of 100,000 people? That's ridiculous. And during our magical run, it's was at least in a small part because guys like Wolf, Holmgren, and the players knew that being a Packer was just a touch different than playing pro sports in any other city.
That's gone. That 'magic' has been sucked out. To TT, this is just a job. To McCarthy, this is just a job. They don't get it, and maybe it's because I can't even put into words what it's supposed to be, that not everyone gets it.
Not trying to be inflammatory, but this is cliche, naive and on the verge of idiotic.
Those Holmgren/wolf teams weren't good because they "understood Green Bay", they were good because Wolf spotted a HOF QB and convinced Reggie to come there. The next few drafts, Wolf found some diamonds in the rough, and the franchise took off.
Reggie was great before he ever stepped foot in GB. His understanding/embracing the community had nothing to do with it. It made him a fan favorite, but it didn't make him better at football.
Brett always had personal demons, so playing in GB probably helped him, but again, the guy is a great QB because he has a huge arm, a big ego and good understanding of the game... not because he embraced a "100,000 person community". Favre is still successful in MN right now. What has he "forgotten" exactly?
I respect the GB franchise and it's unique place in pro sport. Honestly, I do. But, some fans get carried away with the whole "They don't understand GB" crap. This is pro sports. The teams with the most talent and best gameplan win the vast majority of games. Green Bay is different from all other communities, but not a magical place that can overcome those 2 facts. Talent and gameplan are what determine the outcome.
I know people have a romantic view of the Packers and Green Bay, and that makes it a great experience for the fans. But, you have to match those romantic feelings with cold hard logic if want to evaluate the team.
McCarthy and Thompson might not be successful in GB (I'd say TBD), but it's not because they don't "understand GB", it's because they haven't made the right personnel and gameplan moves.
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The worst part about it all, and this has nothing to do with today, is that teams DO NOT FEAR COMING TO LAMBEAU anymore. This used to be a game that every team in the league just marked as a L on their calender. Done deal. Not even worth talking about. Now it's just another game. This started under Sherman, and it's been made worse under TT.
And the reason is, none of these guys understand what it's like to be A PACKER.
That is meat-headed, lowest common denominator thinking.
The reason that they aren't winning has nothing to do when them understanding "what it's like to be a PACKER." It is because the players and coaches aren't as good as their opponents. Lambeau Field does give you a little bit of an advantage, but I am not sure that it gives you any more of an advantage than any other stadium. The reason that the Packers won so many in a row at home in the mid 90s because they were a *great* team, with a *great* coach, assembled by a *great* general manager.
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Time for McCarthy to be honest. I am so sick of his coach speak.
"We didn't do the right things and its a coaching thing and an execution thing"
great, so FIX IT. This is the 9th week of the season, and you still have this many coaching problems?
FIRE SLOCUM first of all. Maybe that will wake up the team of zombies playing special teams out there.
This pretty much sums it all up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3uxqwTxk0&feature=related
FIX IT
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Relax, fellas. I didn't make the post, but I'm going to disagree that it doesn't present a viable opportunity. Coaching and talent wins on the field. That much is a given. But this team is playing flat, uninspired football. In Green Bay, there is a ready-made opportunity to instill some pride in these players and give them something extra to play for (other than, of course, the millions of dollars we pay them for a 17 week season). It's something that doesn't exist in Jacksonville or Carolina. I'd urge you to go read the way Reggie White spoke of Green Bay. He carried the same reverential tone that most of the fans do. Sure, he was the best defensive player on the planet (save, maybe, Lawrence Taylor) but he instilled that same pride in every man on that roster. Hell, you think guys like Craig Newsome, Doug Evans, Brian Williams, and George Koonce are world beaters? Heck no. We had White and Butler, and a bunch of solid, smart football players. On offense? A lights out QB, an overachieving starting RB, a converted FB as our backup RB, a mish mosh group of moderately talented receivers, and a gritty, veteran O-line.
If you don't believe there was something extra on that team, you're kidding yourself. They assembled an incredible coaching staff that utilized every resource available to them, and that includes instilling a pride and responsibility for WHO they're playing for.
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Brett always had personal demons, so playing in GB probably helped him, but again, the guy is a great QB because he has a huge arm, a big ego and good understanding of the game... not because he embraced a "100,000 person community". Favre is still successful in MN right now. What has he "forgotten" exactly?
I also want to address this one. Some may call this naive, but I really don't think Brett's career would have taken off in any other place than Green Bay. History will never tell us, but he was at a dead end in Atlanta and Ron Wolf seemed to be the only guy who thought he had a big future in the league. Had he gone to a place with some bright lights and a true night life, we might have never seen Favre the way we have for the past 18 years. The combination of Holmgren's tutelage and the mellow, distraction-free community in Green Bay was the perfect mix for Favre.
RE: What has he 'forgotten'? I don't want to speak for the guy who made the post, but I can only assume that he's speaking of an underlying assumption that since Thompson (and to a lesser degree, McCarthy) came to town, Favre has been playing more for the name on the back of the jersey than he had been previously in GB. I can't be sure, though. He's found a good situation in Minnesota, and that's that.
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Relax, fellas. I didn't make the post, but I'm going to disagree that it doesn't present a viable opportunity. Coaching and talent wins on the field. That much is a given. But this team is playing flat, uninspired football. In Green Bay, there is a ready-made opportunity to instill some pride in these players and give them something extra to play for (other than, of course, the millions of dollars we pay them for a 17 week season). It's something that doesn't exist in Jacksonville or Carolina. I'd urge you to go read the way Reggie White spoke of Green Bay. He carried the same reverential tone that most of the fans do. Sure, he was the best defensive player on the planet (save, maybe, Lawrence Taylor) but he instilled that same pride in every man on that roster. Hell, you think guys like Craig Newsome, Doug Evans, Brian Williams, and George Koonce are world beaters? Heck no. We had White and Butler, and a bunch of solid, smart football players. On offense? A lights out QB, an overachieving starting RB, a converted FB as our backup RB, a mish mosh group of moderately talented receivers, and a gritty, veteran O-line.
If you don't believe there was something extra on that team, you're kidding yourself. They assembled an incredible coaching staff that utilized every resource available to them, and that includes instilling a pride and responsibility for WHO they're playing for.
I can get with that, but what does New England use as their "extra"? In their first superbowl win they were the underdogs by a lot, and obviously St. Louis had more talent. New England didn't have the Packers culture. How were they able to do it?
I agree with you that a winning culture and attitude have to be established, but I don't think it's unique to GB.
If Reggie had gone to Carolina and won a superbowl, he'd probably talk differently about that experience.
Certainly culture and attitude can help a team win, but realistically that culture can be established anywhere, especially if you have a HOF defensive end and HOF QB (favre in the 90's or Brady now).
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I also want to address this one. Some may call this naive, but I really don't think Brett's career would have taken off in any other place than Green Bay. History will never tell us, but he was at a dead end in Atlanta and Ron Wolf seemed to be the only guy who thought he had a big future in the league. Had he gone to a place with some bright lights and a true night life, we might have never seen Favre the way we have for the past 18 years. The combination of Holmgren's tutelage and the mellow, distraction-free community in Green Bay was the perfect mix for Favre.
RE: What has he 'forgotten'? I don't want to speak for the guy who made the post, but I can only assume that he's speaking of an underlying assumption that since Thompson (and to a lesser degree, McCarthy) came to town, Favre has been playing more for the name on the back of the jersey than he had been previously in GB. I can't be sure, though. He's found a good situation in Minnesota, and that's that.
I agree that the small community probably helped Brett stay out of trouble in his personal time, which allowed him to develop as a QB.
So, in that case, the community probably did impact performance on the field. But, had Holmgren been coaching in Cleveland, and if Brett had gone there instead... he still probably would have been a great player.
GB is a unique community, but it's a short drive to Milwaukee, so if a player is really destined to find trouble... he will find it.
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I can get with that, but what does New England use as their "extra"? In their first superbowl win they were the underdogs by a lot, and obviously St. Louis had more talent. New England didn't have the Packers culture. How were they able to do it?
I agree with you that a winning culture and attitude have to be established, but I don't think it's unique to GB.
If Reggie had gone to Carolina and won a superbowl, he'd probably talk differently about that experience.
Certainly culture and attitude can help a team win, but realistically that culture can be established anywhere, especially if you have a HOF defensive end and HOF QB (favre in the 90's or Brady now).
Oh, I completely agree. I didn't mean to imply that some measure of team pride CAN'T be instilled in Carolina or Jacksonville, or that utilizing history is the only means of establishing a winning culture. There's other ways. Belichick has found it. Others have as well, by their own design. Not only does McCarthy not seem to possess any of this innovative "design," but the fact that the history is there means it should be a consideration. Even Mike Sherman had a grand appreciation for it and used it in his style of motivation, and his teams had four straight 10+ win seasons and three straight division titles. And Mike Sherman was no elite game planner.
It's a tough concept to make tangible, I realize. And maybe that guy's post was a bit over the top, but he doesn't have the entirely wrong idea. The 2003 Packers team started 2-3 and were 6-6 at one point before running the table to take the division from the formerly 6-0 Vikings. I know you remember that. The same thing in 2004. The Pack started 1-4, and then went 9-2 over the final 11 to take the division under Sherman. His teams believed. If a McCarthy coached team starts 1-4 or 2-3? Heck, bury them. They're 4-4 right now, and just about everyone is burying them as it is. There's no life on this team. I sure hope I'm proven wrong, but I'm going to have to see it to believe it at this point.
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Oh, I completely agree. I didn't mean to imply that some measure of team pride CAN'T be instilled in Carolina or Jacksonville, or that utilizing history is the only means of establishing a winning culture. There's other ways. Belichick has found it. Others have as well, by their own design. Not only does McCarthy not seem to possess any of this innovative "design," but the fact that the history is there means it should be a consideration. Even Mike Sherman had a grand appreciation for it and used it in his style of motivation, and his teams had four straight 10+ win seasons and three straight division titles. And Mike Sherman was no elite game planner.
It's a tough concept to make tangible, I realize. And maybe that guy's post was a bit over the top, but he doesn't have the entirely wrong idea. The 2003 Packers team started 2-3 and were 6-6 at one point before running the table to take the division from the formerly 6-0 Vikings. I know you remember that. The same thing in 2004. The Pack started 1-4, and then went 9-2 over the final 11 to take the division under Sherman. His teams believed. If a McCarthy coached team starts 1-4 or 2-3? Heck, bury them. They're 4-4 right now, and just about everyone is burying them as it is. There's no life on this team. I sure hope I'm proven wrong, but I'm going to have to see it to believe it at this point.
Sherman's teams started horribly. Did the player's suddenly remember they were the "packers" and then start to win? Did the Vikings suddenly remember they were "the vikings" and start to lose?
I would just say that Sherman probably wasn't a great coach, but had enough talent that they could save his season (see Fontes, Wayne), and Tice wasn't a good enough coach to get the Vikes to close out.
I think we agree for the most part, and I completely believe in a "Winning culture" (watch Tony Dungy's NFL films from back in TB).
But, I don't think there is "packer mystique" in modern day sports.
I know we love to think that there is such a thing in pro sports, but that mystique is created when teams have talent and are well coached, not because there is magic in being a Packer or a patriot or a bengal.
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Sherman's teams started horribly. Did the player's suddenly remember they were the "packers" and then start to win? Did the Vikings suddenly remember they were "the vikings" and start to lose?
I would just say that Sherman probably wasn't a great coach, but had enough talent that they could save his season (see Fontes, Wayne), and Tice wasn't a good enough coach to get the Vikes to close out.
I think we agree for the most part, and I completely believe in a "Winning culture" (watch Tony Dungy's NFL films from back in TB).
But, I don't think there is "packer mystique" in modern day sports.
I know we love to think that there is such a thing in pro sports, but that mystique is created when teams have talent and are well coached, not because there is magic in being a Packer or a patriot or a bengal.
Can they be a function of one another? When the Bengals are a good football team, they call it being a good football team. When the Packers are a good football team, they call it the Packer mystique. Perhaps just different names for the exact same concept?
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Can they be a function of one another? When the Bengals are a good football team, they call it being a good football team. When the Packers are a good football team, they call it the Packer mystique. Perhaps just different names for the exact same concept?
Perfectly stated.
I guess that's why I get up on my soapbox about "Packer Mystique"... it's really just creating a winning culture, which isn't a unique concept or magic that exists only at Lambeau.
The Packers got their butts whipped by the Vikes in the 70's and the Bears in the 80's.
There was no mystique back then, and it's not because the players "didn't understand what it means to be a PACKER" (to quote the original poster), it's because the players in GB sucked.
Chicken or the egg I suppose. You need a winning culture to win, but a winning culture really only develops WHEN YOU WIN.
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I dont care where you live.
Why would you include only the last 4 drafts? That makes a whole lot of sense...
It does make sense because thats the time that McCarthy and Childress has been at their respective locations...
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It does make sense because thats the time that McCarthy and Childress has been at their respective locations...
Ted Thompson drafts, not McCarthy.
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It does make sense because thats the time that McCarthy and Childress has been at their respective locations...
Not an apt way of comparing the two. The GMs draft, not the HCs
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So if the packers fix their offensive line problems they still won't be a good team because they don't respect GB, don't have a winning culture, and don't understand what it means to be a packer?
Whew, that is a releif...
I was afraid that one or two shrewd personel moves could turn them into a power house.
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So if the packers fix their offensive line problems they still won't be a good team because they don't respect GB, don't have a winning culture, and don't understand what it means to be a packer?
Whew, that is a releif...
I was afraid that one or two shrewd personel moves could turn them into a power house.
It's not necessarily part of the problem, but it certainly doesn't help matters when your GM's primary concern is to remain the youngest team in the league every year and your head coach is more concerned about "pad level" than creativity in the offense. Perhaps the bigger issue, at least concerning respect, Packer culture, and the rest of this tongue-in-cheek post is that neither Thompson or McCarthy are visible in the community or accommodating in any way. When you're winning, people will shrug it off. When you're losing, you're less likely to get the benefit of the doubt. Despite his 4-12 season at the end, Sherman was generally well liked across the state. Sure, many thought it was time to part ways, but not because they disliked Sherman. He had a keen appreciation for Packers history and strived to keep his team connected to that, and people were definitely drawn to it.
And thinking this team is one or two personnel moves from being a powerhouse is wishful thinking, unfortunately. I think 60% of the line will have to be retooled over the next few years. When the holdovers from the Wolf/Sherman eras are gone (Driver, Harris, Tauscher, Clifton), as well as Woodson, holes are going to start springing up elsewhere, too. A feature back would be a wonderful addition, because as much as I like Grant he's just a guy. He'll get 1100 yards a year on 3 per carry and a few 150 yard games against cupcake teams.
Special teams remains woeful.
I'm not necessarily as worried about the defense for the next few years. Kampman is just out of his element, and will probably be gone after this year. Get Capers a few more 3-4 type players and give everyone else an extra off season to let the scheme and all of its intricacies set in, and they'll be fine. I just can't be sure McCarthy will be there to see it through.
I recently watched a few 2007 Packers games and a few things immediately jumped out at me. Favre is more deliberate in his drop and the ball came out much faster than it does for Rodgers. Also, negative plays were negated almost entirely. That team was rarely in a bad down-and-distance situation, and we often looked at 2nd and 5 or less to begin series. Of course, play calling displayed a variety of slants, misdirection, designed pump fakes, screens and the like. None of that anymore. Just bland run plays, deep drops, and long passes. The question is.... why?
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neither Thompson or McCarthy are visible in the community or accommodating in any way. When you're winning, people will shrug it off. When you're losing, you're less likely to get the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with most of what you said, but the coaches are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
If they are losing, but visable the community, people will be thinking things like "Yea, he's a good guy, but I'd rather have Holmgren because he won. McCarthy is just too nice to win in today's NFL. " (EXAMPLE MIKE SHERMAN)
If they don't go out in the community and they lose (like now), people say it's because the coaches and players don't understand GB. (EXAMPLE: MIKE MCCARTHY)
Coaches are always going to get too much heat and too much credit.
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I agree with most of what you said, but the coaches are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
If they are losing, but visable the community, people will be thinking things like "Yea, he's a good guy, but I'd rather have Holmgren because he won. McCarthy is just too nice to win in today's NFL. " (EXAMPLE MIKE SHERMAN)
If they don't go out in the community and they lose (like now), people say it's because the coaches and players don't understand GB. (EXAMPLE: MIKE MCCARTHY)
Coaches are always going to get too much heat and too much credit.
That's true to an extent. Winning does solve everything. But Sherman left with the respect of much of the Packers fan base and media, not to mention three straight division titles. He was no slouch of a coach. His teams had an identity and stuck to it. His teams were disciplined. They didn't blow leads, especially to bad teams. He was a terrible GM though. I'd take Sherman over McCarthy in a heartbeat.
I never buy the "too nice" excuse. Tony Dungy managed to win just fine. Holmgren could be a hothead on Sundays, but was generally well liked by his players and the media/fans. Very different guy away from football. I haven't heard many people speak very highly of McCarthy as a person, even when he was winning. By most accounts he's a complete jackass.
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That's true to an extent. Winning does solve everything. But Sherman left with the respect of much of the Packers fan base and media, not to mention three straight division titles. He was no slouch of a coach. His teams had an identity and stuck to it. His teams were disciplined.
Sherman was so well liked and his teams were so disciplined and successful that the organization fired him after 1 bad season.
"Just win, baby" is the most honest phrase in sports.
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Sherman was so well liked and his teams were so disciplined and successful that the organization fired him after 1 bad season.
"Just win, baby" is the most honest phrase in sports.
Correction. Ted Thompson fired Mike Sherman. After he had gotten an extension. It will be interesting to see how much hypocrisy is shown if McCarthy doesn't right ship this year.
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And thinking this team is one or two personnel moves from being a powerhouse is wishful thinking,
No it's not. I'm a bears fan. Add a probowl tackle, an above avg og, and give the D another year to learn the 3-4 and they should be a good team next year. Than again all of you people have me buying into this mentality that rogers hasn't been responsible for a single loss of his carreer so far.
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Correction. Ted Thompson fired Mike Sherman. After he had gotten an extension. It will be interesting to see how much hypocrisy is shown if McCarthy doesn't right ship this year.
Toche. But, I didn't hear a lot of "outrage" when it happened.
Show me a winning coach or QB (*cough, Favre, cough cough*), I'll show you a guy who is liked by the players and the fans.
Remember in week 3 when the Jets were good and the locker room was a great environment because Favre was gone? Yea, I haven't heard that anymore now that the Jets are mediocre.
I'm not trying to make this about Favre... I'm just saying pro sports is about winning.
Winning = Liking... doesn't matter if you are Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy, Mike Ditka or Brett Favre.
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No it's not. I'm a bears fan. Add a probowl tackle, an above avg og, and give the D another year to learn the 3-4 and they should be a good team next year. Than again all of you people have me buying into this mentality that rogers hasn't been responsible for a single loss of his carreer so far.
Rodgers is a good QB. He's not yet great. You can win lots of games with him as he is now, but he CAN get better, and I expect him to. I'd put about 25% of the sacks this year on him, as a rough estimate. No other offense in the league operates like ours does right now. An overwhelming percent of the time in most NFL offenses, you'll see the designed 3 step, 5 step, 7 step drop and the ball is OUT to the corresponding routes that match up with the drops. Even when Aaron isn't pressured, he looks to escape the pocket. There's no timing routes, and Aaron's greatest weakness (other than the perceived holding on to the ball too long) is his inability to throw the ball before a receiver's break. He needs to see the receiver's numbers before the ball comes out, which explains his need to buy so much time.
Your Bears neutralized our quick slant game in the first game of the season, and every team since then has played our wide receivers to the inside. Try that against Favre, and we'd take the outside release, then run a comeback route towards the sidelines with Favre releasing the ball to a spot, the receiver breaking, and the ball being there. The quick slant and the sideline comeback were our bread and butter in '07. For whatever reason, Aaron doesn't seem to have the confidence to make that throw yet. So now two staples of our offense have been knocked out, and we're having major troubles adjusting everything else around it.
The sad part is, in my opinion, Aaron has the arm to MAKE the throw. He just needs to be comfortable with it. I guess it's the next step in the progression of a 2nd year starting QB.
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How AWFUL is it going to be when Green Bay misses the playoffs because of a loss to the TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS, their only loss of the season? Just unbelievable. Let's see if they realize that putting pressure on quarterbacks is going to work (like the players had been lobbying for), or if they'll go back to sitting in their Cover 3 and get shredded again.
And the penalties and sacks are STILL unbearable. It is disgusting. EVERY week. You would think they could at least IMPROVE on ONE of those things, but it just gets worse.
All of that said, this was a good win. Great performance by the defense.
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Well, you could pin it on their loss to the Bucs (which was unspeakably awful), or you could pin it on their failure to show up for 5 of 8 quarters against the team that currently leads their division.
There were some encouraging signs from the Pack today. The defense was excellent. Special teams were much improved. The 5 sacks they got today were almost half of their season total coming into this game.
Unfortunately, the two problems that have plagued the Packers the entire season once again reared their ugly heads:
1. They still can't protect Rodgers. There was one sack where the Packers kept an extra guy (maybe even 2) in to block, but Rodgers was still sacked. To add insult to injury, the Packer responsible for the sack was called for holding on the play.
2. TWELVE penalties for 100 yards. No surprise that the Packers are the most penalized team in the NFL, and that the Cowboys aren't far behind.
I've given up hope of a solution for either one, which means that in order to win, the Packers have to be nearly perfect in every other aspect of the game. They managed to do that today, but I don't see it happening often enough over the next seven games to push them to the playoffs.
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Agreed IAm...and those two problems are going to prevent the Packers from going very far.
But that was a *fun* game to watch tonight!
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The sad part is, in my opinion, Aaron has the arm to MAKE the throw. He just needs to be comfortable with it. I guess it's the next step in the progression of a 2nd year starting QB.
For the first time yesterday, I saw Rodgers make timing throws under pressure in big situations. Two third and longs on the 15 play drive, one to Driver, and one to Lee. They were far and away his best throws of the evening. I'm not even sure how he SAW the one to Lee develop. Now he just needs to put together drives like that consistently. 15 plays, 80 yards, 7 minutes and some change. Awesome. Now do good Packers or bad Packers show up next week?
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I must say I was very impressed with the Packers effort yesterday, though I remain pessimistic for the rest of the year. They could have easily rolled over, and I expected as much, but they really came out ready to play. As someone else pointed out, the O-line is still a major problem, and the penalties were as bad as ever.
I expect they will probably win the next couple games, and keep themselves in position. After that, they will probably have some problems.
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I didn't read/hear post game comments from MM but I would guess he mentioned lane integrity and pad level at least once. And that he didn't get anyone fired.
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<throw up> Childress extended to 2013.
ESPN reporting that Vikings coach Brad Childress has agreed to a contract extension that will keep him with the team through the 2013 season.
In other Vikings news, the Wilf's spazzed out at the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission this week... it's getting nasty, quickly.
Both matters are not very pleasing to me, but oh well.. the season is going very well.
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<throw up> Childress extended to 2013.
ESPN reporting that Vikings coach Brad Childress has agreed to a contract extension that will keep him with the team through the 2013 season.
In other Vikings news, the Wilf's spazzed out at the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission this week... it's getting nasty, quickly.
Both matters are not very pleasing to me, but oh well.. the season is going very well.
ouch, sorry dude. Ziggy be crazy.
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Jay Bee,
You accept paypal? Or would you prefer a gift of lynchburg, TN's finest export.
Barring an epic collapse, Vikes seem to have the north locked up.
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Jay Bee,
You accept paypal? Or would you prefer a gift of lynchburg, TN's finest export.
Barring an epic collapse, Vikes seem to have the north locked up.
If you're sending out bottles of JD, sign me up!
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Thankfully I only made one bet regarding the NFC north. Maybe next year.
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Jay Bee,
You accept paypal? Or would you prefer a gift of lynchburg, TN's finest export.
Barring an epic collapse, Vikes seem to have the north locked up.
Yes - paypal works, but so would some booze. Your call - I'll wait to hear from you, then hit you with my paypal or home address.
$4 to $5 million per year for Br0ad Childress is the rumor. Ugh. The guy that should be extended in Minnesota sports is Mr. Mauer.
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$4 to $5 million per year for Br0ad Childress is the rumor. Ugh. The guy that should be extended in Minnesota sports is Mr. Mauer.
Truer words have never been spoken
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Coaches are always going to get too much heat and too much credit.
Perfect example, Childress just received a contract extension because his team is doing well now. That may look like a real dumb decision if Favre does what he's done the past few years and tails off dramatically at the end of the season or if they lose at home in the playoffs like they did last year.
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Perfect example, Childress just received a contract extension because his team is doing well now. That may look like a real dumb decision if Favre does what he's done the past few years and tails off dramatically at the end of the season or if they lose at home in the playoffs like they did last year.
Has he won a single playoff game? This was a moronic decision. If he couldn't convince farve to come out of retirement he very well could be getting fired at the end of the season. Why give him 3 years because he could beg a guy out of retirement.
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Has he won a single playoff game? This was a moronic decision. If he couldn't convince farve to come out of retirement he very well could be getting fired at the end of the season. Why give him 3 years because he could beg a guy out of retirement.
Because that begging gave Minnesota one of their best chances to win their FIRST super bowl.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it will happen, but that alone might get you a contract extension.
In 2 years, the Vikings will hate Childress
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Because that begging gave Minnesota one of their best chances to win their FIRST super bowl.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it will happen, but that alone might get you a contract extension.
In 2 years, the Vikings will hate Childress
I thought they already did. I know their fans do. (from what it seems)
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I was looking at some stats this morning to see if the Vikes were really as good as their record indicates.
I'm nervous that they aren't, and some of the stats validate that.
The very interesting thing is that GB is almost the same, and in some cases better than MN in a lot of areas.
Total Offense: MN 8 GB 7
Total Defense: MN 13 GB 3
Now, these numbers are really based upon yards not points, so I don't think it's a perfect measure, but these numbers favor GB.
The other thing to consider is that the Vikes have had a lot of big leads in the 4th quarter, which would lead to more conservative play calling with some back-up players and probably giving up some additional yards on defense as opposing teams continue to pass the ball to get back in the game (also increased opportunities for sacks).
Now, the biggest difference in number occurs in special teams:
Kick off Coverage: MN 8 GB 28
Kick off Returns: MN 3 GB 22
MN has a clear advantage in this area with some dangerous players that can hit a homerun, but they (harvin) also give MN a shorter field to work with, thus putting more pressure on the opponent.
The one curious thing I found was the Giveaway/takeaway stat:
GB #1 with +13
MN is #4, but is only +4
The Packers have a CLEAR advantage in this area, and most coaches and football stats analysts say that turnovers determine a game.
What does all of this mean?
Well, given these numbers, I think the Vikes might be a little overrated and the Packers might be underrated. I still envision the Packers going to the playoffs, and as a MN fan, I would be a little nervous to give ARodg another shot at the Vikings secondary.
I know a few weeks ago people were calling for Thompson and McCarthy's head, but when looking at the numbers, they are a good (and young) team. They have some pretty big holes (o-line, special teams), but overall the team is solid in most areas. If you put Percy Harvin and Steve Hutchinson on the Packers, they would make a HUGE difference. The Packers are still a good team this year, but if they can make the right moves in the off season, they really might only be 2 or 3 players away from being elite.
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2002mualum...stop trying to hedge your bets. All season, you have been setting yourself up to defend your Vikes if they dont at least go to the Super Bowl. "There not that good, etc etc etc"
As I have said since week 1...Anything less than going to the Super Bowl, should be considered a disappointment. They are one of the top two teams in the NFC.
Quit trying to convince people to feel sorry for you.
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2002mualum...stop trying to hedge your bets. All season, you have been setting yourself up to defend your Vikes if they dont at least go to the Super Bowl. "There not that good, etc etc etc"
As I have said since week 1...Anything less than going to the Super Bowl, should be considered a disappointment. They are one of the top two teams in the NFC.
Quit trying to convince people to feel sorry for you.
You're right.
I'll tell ESPN to quit posting the actual stats and to make the Vikes #1 in every category.
MIAMI OR BUST!
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2002's stat analysis...
Wins. That is the stat that matters. The only people that worry about the other stats are those that lose.
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Wins. That is the stat that matters. The only people that worry about the other stats are those that lose.
And people that bet on games.
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You're right.
I'll tell ESPN to quit posting the actual stats and to make the Vikes #1 in every category.
MIAMI OR BUST!
The typical useless response from you...I come to expect nothing else.
Frankly, I would rather have JayBoy spit his hot fire on this thread, than constantly have you play the "woe is us" card.
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I agree... I know you really only do it because you hate to be wrong more than anything.
This way you allow yourself to say, "I said I didn't think they were that good"
At least JayBee does take a stand, and isn't so wishy washy.
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The typical useless response from you...I come to expect nothing else.
Frankly, I would rather have JayBoy spit his hot fire on this thread, than constantly have you play the "woe is us" card.
What do you find so objectionable about my first post comparing stats?
I know you think this is some grand set-up, but I'm just comparing the 2 teams.
I would make the comparison between the Vikes and the Saints, but I thought the Packers were a more interesting subject seen as this thread is about the NFC North.
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I agree... I know you really only do it because you hate to be wrong more than anything.
This way you allow yourself to say, "I said I didn't think they were that good"
At least JayBee does take a stand, and isn't so wishy washy.
The Vikings are a good team.
They are better than the Packers.
I said they would be better than the Packers. I was right.
I didn't think the Vikings would be this good.
I'm skeptical if they can go "all the way" because they are not dominating as much as their record indicates.
Do you want me to be more "controversial"?
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What do you find so objectionable about my first post comparing stats?
I know you think this is some grand set-up, but I'm just comparing the 2 teams.
I would make the comparison between the Vikes and the Saints, but I thought the Packers were a more interesting subject seen as this thread is about the NFC North.
You have been doing this all season...that way, when they lose in the Divisional Playoff round you can come back and say "see, I told you in Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec they werent that good!"
And I already konw your response to this, so I will take care of it for you....
"YES, YOURE RIGHT, IM WRONG ITS A CONSPIRACY...MIAMI OR BUST!!!"
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You have been doing this all season...that way, when they lose in the Divisional Playoff round you can come back and say "see, I told you in Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec they werent that good!"
And I already konw your response to this, so I will take care of it for you....
"YES, YOURE RIGHT, IM WRONG ITS A CONSPIRACY...MIAMI OR BUST!!!"
Well, I've been saying it all along because that is what I honestly think. I'm not going to lie just to make my posts more fun for you to read.
Quick Assessment:
- They have an unproven coaching staff
- An aging QB who is playing great, but still could run out of gas
- Great running back, but not as good of a running game as is past years
- A defense that has a great pass rush, but isn't particularly strong as pass defending
- Unproven receivers that are having career years (who knows how they will play in big games)
They are a good team. I believe that. But, it's not like they won the superbowl last season and started this season 9-1. They are still relatively unproven, unlike the Colts, Patriots, Arizona and New York, who all have a lot of playoff experience and have good teams this year.
If the Vikings win the superbowl, you can blast me 1000x for being an idiot. I promise, I will admit that I was wrong. You can call me every name in the book. In fact, if you want to put $ on it, I'd go for that as well. What kind of odds do you want?
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so you are taking the odds?
exactly.
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so you are taking the odds?
exactly.
Fine. I'll take the colts.
Who are you taking?
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The Patriots.
But if my team were the Vikings, I'd be picking them... which is really our point.
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The Patriots.
But if my team were the Vikings, I'd be picking them... which is really our point.
I think there is some miscommunication.
I'm a Vikings fan, so I have to bet on them to win the superbowl?
Is that what you guys are saying?
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Kampman and Harris out for the year.
I love Kampman but watching him in pass coverage was truly gut-wrenching and just when it seems he may be "getting it" he goes down for the year (rushing the passer, ironically). Unfortunately we won't be seeing that anymore. Thompson couldn't get a sack of apples for him now and he'll most likely walk in FA over the offseason. Harris (another favorite of mine), most likely ended his career yesterday. No way a guy that age coming off an ACL injury gets a fair shot at coming back next year (even though still under contract).
Will be interesting to see how those defensive numbers (that 2002mualum pointed out) change during the rest of the season. At least we'll have a Stafford-less Lions squad on Turkey Day and then the MU game.
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I think there is some miscommunication.
I'm a Vikings fan, so I have to bet on them to win the superbowl?
Is that what you guys are saying?
no, you don't. But you have to say, as a Vikings fan, that they won't win the super bowl.
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no, you don't. But you have to say, as a Vikings fan, that they won't win the super bowl.
Wait, that is what I'm saying, isn't it?
I'm saying they won't win the superbowl.
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I am taking the Vikings. Every team has flaws right now, but I think they have all the pieces needed to win it. The only thing that could stop them (besides injuries, but that is obvious) would be Childress. IMHO
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Kampman and Harris out for the year.
I love Kampman but watching him in pass coverage was truly gut-wrenching and just when it seems he may be "getting it" he goes down for the year (rushing the passer, ironically). Unfortunately we won't be seeing that anymore. Thompson couldn't get a sack of apples for him now and he'll most likely walk in FA over the offseason. Harris (another favorite of mine), most likely ended his career yesterday. No way a guy that age coming off an ACL injury gets a fair shot at coming back next year (even though still under contract).
Will be interesting to see how those defensive numbers (that 2002mualum pointed out) change during the rest of the season. At least we'll have a Stafford-less Lions squad on Turkey Day and then the MU game.
With Harris, I am interested to see how well Tramon Williams plays in his place. I like Williams a lot as a nickle back, but we'll have to see how he adjusts to a full time role. If Harris is still under contract, my guess is that he will have plenty of opportunities to play again for the Packers.
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Kampman and Harris out for the year.
I love Kampman but watching him in pass coverage was truly gut-wrenching and just when it seems he may be "getting it" he goes down for the year (rushing the passer, ironically). Unfortunately we won't be seeing that anymore. Thompson couldn't get a sack of apples for him now and he'll most likely walk in FA over the offseason. Harris (another favorite of mine), most likely ended his career yesterday. No way a guy that age coming off an ACL injury gets a fair shot at coming back next year (even though still under contract).
Will be interesting to see how those defensive numbers (that 2002mualum pointed out) change during the rest of the season. At least we'll have a Stafford-less Lions squad on Turkey Day and then the MU game.
As far as Kampman is concerned, he's been one of my favorite Packers over the last several seasons. Unfortunately, it's pretty clear that he's miscast in the 3-4. With the switch, I'm not sure the loss of Kampman is a huge one. In the Dallas game (small sample size, to be sure) Brad Jones (rookie) acquitted himself quite well.
The loss of Harris could be much more problematic. Without Harris, Charles Woodson's role could change dramatically, from do-everything-defensive-player-of-the-year-candidate to shut-down corner only. This changes the entire dynamic of the defensive secondary. As we saw earlier in the year, the Packers' secondary was a mess without Nick Collins. I can only hope the loss of Harris won't have the same effect.
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With Harris, I am interested to see how well Tramon Williams plays in his place. I like Williams a lot as a nickle back, but we'll have to see how he adjusts to a full time role. If Harris is still under contract, my guess is that he will have plenty of opportunities to play again for the Packers.
Opportunities yes, but will they keep a spot on the roster for an aged (football years) corner that is best suited for bump and run and not zone?
I don't see it. But those are problems for next year, I agree with the poster re: Kampman and the 3-4, will be fun to see what the future at his spot will look like.
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I think they overcome the Kampman injury just fine. Harris? Probably another story. I suspect Williams will be able to fill in ok at CB, but that creates a huge hole in the nickle and dime packages. This forces the one Packer who should not be on the team, let alone the field in Jarret Bush, onto the field. That is a nightmare scenario for the Packer defense.
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I think they overcome the Kampman injury just fine. Harris? Probably another story. I suspect Williams will be able to fill in ok at CB, but that creates a huge hole in the nickle and dime packages. This forces the one Packer who should not be on the team, let alone the field in Jarret Bush, onto the field. That is a nightmare scenario for the Packer defense.
Almost makes you want Ahmed Carrol back (who is available again)...
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Pretty fascinating last month of the season coming up (unless you're a Bears fan like me). From an NFC playoff picture stand point, this will be a pretty interesting month.
I think the 6 NFC playoff teams that would qualify now will be your 6 teams in a month from now. If the Giants lose this week or next week at home, they're probably toast.
Right now it would be set as: 1. Saints, 2. Vikings, 3. Cowboys, 4. Cardinals, 5. Eagles, 6. Packers
I think the Cardinals will eventually end up with the 3 seed (look at their remaining sked: vs Min, @ SF, @ Det, vs Stl, vs GB). Cowboys are @ NYG, vs SD, @ NO, @ Was, vs Phi).
Week 17 has the potential to be very interesting...Packers @ Cardinals, Eagles @ Cowboys. Potentially, those two games, in those two same locations, could happen the following wild card weekend. If that happened, would the NFL make the Pack play on Saturday of wild card weekend?
If I'm a Packers fan, I would desperately want to lock up that 5 seed. 6 seed guarantees you (assuming a win on wild card weekend) a visit to New Orleans in round 2. 5 seed at least gives the Pack a third chance at the Vikings (which I could see them pulling off the upset).
Lot of football left, but interesting to think about.
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Pretty fascinating last month of the season coming up (unless you're a Bears fan like me). From an NFC playoff picture stand point, this will be a pretty interesting month.
I think the 6 NFC playoff teams that would qualify now will be your 6 teams in a month from now. If the Giants lose this week or next week at home, they're probably toast.
Right now it would be set as: 1. Saints, 2. Vikings, 3. Cowboys, 4. Cardinals, 5. Eagles, 6. Packers
I think the Cardinals will eventually end up with the 3 seed (look at their remaining sked: vs Min, @ SF, @ Det, vs Stl, vs GB). Cowboys are @ NYG, vs SD, @ NO, @ Was, vs Phi).
Week 17 has the potential to be very interesting...Packers @ Cardinals, Eagles @ Cowboys. Potentially, those two games, in those two same locations, could happen the following wild card weekend. If that happened, would the NFL make the Pack play on Saturday of wild card weekend?
If I'm a Packers fan, I would desperately want to lock up that 5 seed. 6 seed guarantees you (assuming a win on wild card weekend) a visit to New Orleans in round 2. 5 seed at least gives the Pack a third chance at the Vikings (which I could see them pulling off the upset).
Lot of football left, but interesting to think about.
The NFL would LOVE Packers vs Vikings (again). It would only be better if the Packers were somehow at home.
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Pretty fascinating last month of the season coming up (unless you're a Bears fan like me).
C'mon there is a lot to be excited about for us Bears fans.
1. Can they secure a top ten pick?
2. Will Chicago fire Lovie/Turner or both?
3. Will Cutler ever get shoulder pads that fit? that little shoulder thing he does is annoying.
It will be a very exciting month.
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I think you meant "Can they secure a top ten pick...for the Denver Broncos?"
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I think you meant "Can they secure a top ten pick...for the Denver Broncos?"
Poop. Forgot about that.
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C'mon there is a lot to be excited about for us Bears fans.
It will be a very exciting month.
As a Bears fan I've focused my attention and potential excitement squarely on the shoulders of the MU BB Team...and the possibility that Turner will get the ax.
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I think you meant "Can they secure a top ten pick...for the Denver Broncos?"
Pretty sure they don't have a 2nd round pick for next year either.
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You are correct sir.
Plenty of Bucs fans and Bronco fans cheering for Bears opponents down the stretch.
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Fun season so far... at least for us Vikings. I will admit I am afraid of Green Bey making the playoffs and beating us in the dome.. that would absolutely ruin the season. But, hopefully it's us and NO for the NFC Championship.
There are some great football minds on this site. I thought back to some of the finer quotes:
Hards_alumni: "WHO IS GOING TO CATCH THE BALL BOBBY WADE? BERNARD BERRIAN? PERCY HARVIN?"
and..
"As a Packer fan, I would take Forte over most backs in the league in a cocaine heartbeat."
MUDish: "Forte is hardly "just a guy". There's nothing wrong with a RB catching a ton of passes (see Craig, Roger or Payton, Walter). Forte is an outstanding receiver for a RB, and an outstanding blocking back. He's a borderline Pro Bowl back going into his second season. You really can't ask for much more for a complete back....the guy is the real deal"
PXILibero: "I have enough faith in the fact that I scout every NFL team - starting with the NFC North, then the rest of the conference and beyond - to know that I dwarf what you know about football tenfold.....
Specifically, how a thirty nine year old quarterback with a surgically repaired biceps and a torn rotator cuff who did no offseason work with your team is a better option than a young, growing quarterback. The only direction Favre can go is south. This dink and dunk crap that we saw last night will work just fine against the hapless Texans D and their tackle-missing tendencies, but when he's forced to go over the top and "make a play out there", you're going to see him throw away some games for you, and I'm going to enjoy every minute of it."
Navin3atsJohnsons: Navin:
"Obviously it will take Viking fans several weeks to realize what a mistake the Favre signing was, and Bear fans don't know what to do now that they actually seem to have a real QB in town. Should be a fun season...perhaps going all the way to week 17 before anything is decided.
Will Viking fans turn on him before or after the bye week?"
Jay Bee: "if we get through the first four at 4-0 [or] 3-1, I feel great about wrapping this thing up early.
My team is going to win the division, and I have an open offer to those that think otherwise to put their money where their mouth is."
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I have no problem with Jay Bee bringing up my comments on Forte. He is a great receiving back, still no question about that. His offensive line has done zero for him this year as well. No question he seems to have lost his burst from a year ago. Whether that's a lack of confidence from early on in the season, or knowing the hole won't be there like he expects, I'm not sure. He still is a great blocking back too, no question there either. Pro Bowl, obviously no way this year.
It has been good to see both the Bears and Lions expose a problem with Adrian Peterson, hanging on to the football. Expect to see more of Chester Taylor down the stretch. Hunter Hillenmeyer provided a good piece of film to upcoming opponents on stripping the ball from AP, considering he did it twice last Sunday.
Bears season may be lost, but old man Favre still has to come to Chicago for a Dec 28th Monday nighter. Should be fun to watch.
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Good thing JayBoy missed my comments early in the year about how the Packers "really dont have any holes." Swing and a miss on that one...but who's counting? 8-)
I think GB is in a good position for one of the Wild Card spots, as long as they dont Sh*t the bed down the stretch. Going 3-2 in the last 5 weeks should get the job done.
It will be interesting to see how things play out in the NFCE, with DAL/PHI/NYG. They all play each other in the last 5 weeks.
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Good thing JayBoy missed my comments early in the year about how the Packers "really dont have any holes." Swing and a miss on that one...but who's counting? 8-)
It will be interesting to see how things play out in the NFCE, with DAL/PHI/NYG. They all play each other in the last 5 weeks.
A comprehensive list of dumb comments from that thread would have gone on for 19 pages; I was just providing a small sample. Plus, Packers love when people pay attention to their holes... no need to give 'em the 'satisfaction'.
I'm just not sure if any of those teams want it.. just a lot of mediocre teams, several awful teams, and two extraordinarily great teams in NFC. Doesn't meant I won't be freaked come playoff time.. but no complaints so far this year.
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I wouldn't be too smug JB. ;)
Remember, some of the experts here knew Favre would start the season well, but would eventually crash in the second half of the year.
So far, those people are right. ;D
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Good thing JayBoy missed my comments early in the year about how the Packers "really dont have any holes." Swing and a miss on that one...but who's counting? 8-)
To your credit, you weren't that far off.
The Packers are still one of the better offenses and defenses in the league (statistically).
I think consistency (offensive line play specifically) and special teams are really hurting the Packers... and in your defense, it's awfully hard for a fan to predict that the special teams will be good or bad.
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I wouldn't be too smug JB. ;)
Remember, some of the experts here knew Favre would start the season well, but would eventually crash in the second half of the year.
So far, those people are right. ;D
It's just a really, REALLY long beginning to the year.. right?
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To your credit, you weren't that far off.
The Packers are still one of the better offenses and defenses in the league (statistically).
I think consistency (offensive line play specifically) and special teams are really hurting the Packers... and in your defense, it's awfully hard for a fan to predict that the special teams will be good or bad.
I was mainly referring to the O-Line...didnt think it would be this big of a problem.
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It's just a really, REALLY long beginning to the year.. right?
Well, he could still pee down his leg in the last few games... but I'm betting against it.
Football is obviously a complex game, but Brett's success can probably be boiled down to a few things:
1. He's healthy (or at least healthy enough to play well)
2. He knows the offense inside and out, which helps him be a coach on the field
3. (this is the biggest one) He routinely sees 8 and sometimes 9 man fronts (even in some 3rd downs), and that makes it easy for him to "pitch and catch" with the receivers. I'm not saying this to diminish what he has been able to do, I'm saying it because I think he's accurate and can play smart when he doesn't have to carry an offense. The Bears committed to stopping the run, which made MN pass happy, but it worked well because the Bears just aren't that good and it's not that hard for Favre to throw against 8 man fronts.
In GB, teams were routinely trying to disrupt Brett, or make it hard on him. (heavy pass coverage, exotic blitz packages, etc.).
In MN, he's seeing a lot of the same defensive sets because there aren't that many ways to stop the run other than just moving players closer to the ball (ie bring more guys than they can block).
2 receivers and a TE vs 1 safety and 2 DBs = good odds for Brett. Now, when they add Harvin in the slot, it makes it even tougher on teams (cover harvin with a safety? with a LB?)
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Well, he could still pee down his leg in the last few games... but I'm betting against it.
Football is obviously a complex game, but Brett's success can probably be boiled down to a few things:
1. He's healthy (or at least healthy enough to play well)
2. He knows the offense inside and out, which helps him be a coach on the field
3. (this is the biggest one) He routinely sees 8 and sometimes 9 man fronts (even in some 3rd downs), and that makes it easy for him to "pitch and catch" with the receivers. I'm not saying this to diminish what he has been able to do, I'm saying it because I think he's accurate and can play smart when he doesn't have to carry an offense. The Bears committed to stopping the run, which made MN pass happy, but it worked well because the Bears just aren't that good and it's not that hard for Favre to throw against 8 man fronts.
In GB, teams were routinely trying to disrupt Brett, or make it hard on him. (heavy pass coverage, exotic blitz packages, etc.).
In MN, he's seeing a lot of the same defensive sets because there aren't that many ways to stop the run other than just moving players closer to the ball (ie bring more guys than they can block).
2 receivers and a TE vs 1 safety and 2 DBs = good odds for Brett. Now, when they add Harvin in the slot, it makes it even tougher on teams (cover harvin with a safety? with a LB?)
well said. I'd say that is a great analysis of why the Vikes are winning games, and winning big.
GB did their best to stop the run, and Brett threw all over him. The other option is to drop guys back into coverage or play a lot of nickel and hope your front guys are better than the Vikes stellar O-line, and AP... which most of the time isn't going to happen.
I'd say that GB and MN are a lot alike except that GB lacks the Oline and stud RB that MN has... though GB has an advantage at WR and TE talent.
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I'd say that GB and MN are a lot alike except that GB lacks the Oline and stud RB that MN has... though GB has an advantage at WR and TE talent.
I agree with that.
I also think MN has a significant advantage in special teams, which plays a big role in turning a "good team" (GB) into a "great team" (MN).
I would also add that MN's defensive line is better, but the Packers secondary (with harris) is probably a little better (woodson is insane right now).
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I agree with that.
I also think MN has a significant advantage in special teams, which plays a big role in turning a "good team" (GB) into a "great team" (MN).
I would also add that MN's defensive line is better, but the Packers secondary (with harris) is probably a little better (woodson is insane right now).
Harris had ACL surgery on Monday of this week.
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Harris had ACL surgery on Monday of this week.
Right, so I'd say that the Packers secondary is a little bit of an unknown right now.
I think Tramon Williams can play, but obviously that shortens the bench and with effect the nickel packages.
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Remember, some of the experts here knew Favre would start the season well, but would eventually crash in the second half of the year.
So far, those people are right. ;D
You don't need to apologize for our team being great, bud. We just wrapped up the third of four months of the season (i.e., November represents the second half of the season)... if this is crashing, keep it coming, Brett!!!
Consensus Vikings quarterback Brett Favre has been named the named the NFC offensive player of the month for November after leading the Vikings to a 4-0 record and completing 91 of 130 passes (70%) for 1,193 yards, 12 touchdowns and no interceptions with a passer rating of 129.4.
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3. Minnesota
Combined record of the nine teams they've defeated this season: 39-71. Let's give them 2009 Winston Wolf Memorial "Don't Start Sucking Each Other's Popsicles Yet" status. On the flip side, I like them because they can rush the hell out of the passer and get big plays at any time from three different guys (Peterson, Rice and Harvin). That's a solid formula for indoors, and they might not have to play a playoff game outside until Super Bowl XLIV. On the flip side of the flip side, Favre is 40 years old (and needs to stay healthy for eight more games), Brad Childress is Brad Childress, and the history of the Vikings speaks for itself. Just a lot going on here.
Back to what we started in Green Bay's section: I hate to use the word "victim" with sports, because after all, it's just sports. It's the playground of life. But considering how much Favre meant to everyone in Wisconsin, what happened this season was borderline cruel. He's playing out of his mind. He's an MVP candidate. He's playing so well that I am getting impassioned e-mails from Packers fans pointing out that if an aging, past-his-prime, 40-year-old pitcher were suddenly 19-2 in late August with 225 K's (the baseball equivalent to what Favre has done so far), the HGH jokes and rumors would be flying, but with Favre, the consensus seems to be, "He's having fun out there!"
(Note: I don't agree with this. I think that Minnesota has just had an extraordinarily easy schedule and that Favre has more offensive weapons than he's ever had at any point in his career. But whatever.)
Anyway, if this Pack-Vikes playoff game happens, it's the toughest call for the Sports Gods in years. If Green Bay loses to Favre a third time, they would have to shut down the state for a week so everyone could regroup. If Minnesota blows a home playoff game to Favre's old team Gary Anderson/Darrin Nelson-style, same thing. In other words, the stakes are too high. The last time we were here? 2003. A Red Sox-Cubs World Series looming. The Sports Gods freaked out. They couldn't handle it. Bartman/Alou/Gonzalez and Grady/Pedro/Boone happened. I can see the same thing happening this time. Green Bay falls to the sixth seed (or misses the playoffs), the Saints keep the No. 1 seed, something -- anything! -- to prevent a third Favre-Packers game that would be bigger than all of us. And that's why it can't happen.
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3. Minnesota
Combined record of the nine teams they've defeated this season: 39-71. Let's give them 2009 Winston Wolf Memorial "Don't Start Sucking Each Other's Popsicles Yet" status. On the flip side, I like them because they can rush the hell out of the passer and get big plays at any time from three different guys (Peterson, Rice and Harvin). That's a solid formula for indoors, and they might not have to play a playoff game outside until Super Bowl XLIV. On the flip side of the flip side, Favre is 40 years old (and needs to stay healthy for eight more games), Brad Childress is Brad Childress, and the history of the Vikings speaks for itself. Just a lot going on here.
Back to what we started in Green Bay's section: I hate to use the word "victim" with sports, because after all, it's just sports. It's the playground of life. But considering how much Favre meant to everyone in Wisconsin, what happened this season was borderline cruel. He's playing out of his mind. He's an MVP candidate. He's playing so well that I am getting impassioned e-mails from Packers fans pointing out that if an aging, past-his-prime, 40-year-old pitcher were suddenly 19-2 in late August with 225 K's (the baseball equivalent to what Favre has done so far), the HGH jokes and rumors would be flying, but with Favre, the consensus seems to be, "He's having fun out there!"
(Note: I don't agree with this. I think that Minnesota has just had an extraordinarily easy schedule and that Favre has more offensive weapons than he's ever had at any point in his career. But whatever.)
Anyway, if this Pack-Vikes playoff game happens, it's the toughest call for the Sports Gods in years. If Green Bay loses to Favre a third time, they would have to shut down the state for a week so everyone could regroup. If Minnesota blows a home playoff game to Favre's old team Gary Anderson/Darrin Nelson-style, same thing. In other words, the stakes are too high. The last time we were here? 2003. A Red Sox-Cubs World Series looming. The Sports Gods freaked out. They couldn't handle it. Bartman/Alou/Gonzalez and Grady/Pedro/Boone happened. I can see the same thing happening this time. Green Bay falls to the sixth seed (or misses the playoffs), the Saints keep the No. 1 seed, something -- anything! -- to prevent a third Favre-Packers game that would be bigger than all of us. And that's why it can't happen.
I wish Simmons would quit hedging his bets and just say that the Vikings are the best team in the league.
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PXILibero: "I have enough faith in the fact that I scout every NFL team - starting with the NFC North, then the rest of the conference and beyond - to know that I dwarf what you know about football tenfold.....
Specifically, how a thirty nine year old quarterback with a surgically repaired biceps and a torn rotator cuff who did no offseason work with your team is a better option than a young, growing quarterback. The only direction Favre can go is south. This dink and dunk crap that we saw last night will work just fine against the hapless Texans D and their tackle-missing tendencies, but when he's forced to go over the top and "make a play out there", you're going to see him throw away some games for you, and I'm going to enjoy every minute of it."
I'll have to eat some crow. I was wrong about Favre. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. I grew up watching the guy do things that had no business being done, and I guess you can add being 40 years old and coming in entirely physically unprepared and then lighting up the league to that list. Now what remains to be seen is if the playoff meltdowns of the last decade have gone along with it.
As far as the football knowledge, well... other than being off a bit on Matt Ryan, everything else I said about the NFC has been pretty spot on, especially that if Gregg Williams' pressure 4-3 can create turnovers, the Saints will be the force of the conference. And the Packers, while down in the second tier due to the unforeseen resurgence of Favre, are still 7-4 and in great position to make the playoffs.
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As a Viking fan, I can tell you this: Mid way through the 2nd quarter of the Cards v. Vikings game .. that's the moment all Super Bowl dreams should be halted for Minnesota. Yes, yes, we may make it to NO for the NFC title game, but book that as a loss.
I've seen this movie before.
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I wish I would not have turned the game back on just in time to see the replay of EJ Henderson's foot turned the wrong way. Nasty!
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E.J.'s injury did not look good at all. Theismann like.
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Terrible game by the Vikes.
However, in all fairness, Warner and those receivers are pretty special. He made throws into very small windows.
I don't think the Vikes secondary was that bad, it was their defensive line that didn't look good. They HAVE to create pressure with their front 4, otherwise everything else breaks down.
Teams can pass the ball on the Vikes if they can keep their QB upright.
On offense, they were a trainwreck. It appears like they got rattled, and tried to score 14 points every time they go the ball. I know AP wasn't having a good night, but this is the type of game where keeping the ball on the ground (and out of Warner's hands) would have been huge.
I love AP, but he (and the offensive line) have turned into a homerun hitter(s). It would be great to see some more consistency out of them (1 would have traded 1 40 yard run for 10 4yard runs last night). I know that's easy for me to type, and a lot harder to do in real life... but they need more consistency on the ground to protect their defense.
Brett looked rattled and frustrated for the first time all year.
Fast defenses with exotic blitz packages can frustrate Favre and Peterson. The Vikes probably need to adjust by getting better at screens, seem plays and possibly the Wildcat and/or reverse plays. These type of plays could slow opposing defenses down a little bit and stop them from shooting every gap trying to get at Peterson's feet.
Realistically, I don't think this was that bad of a loss, and is probably more of a wake-up call. But, the loss of EJ Henderson makes this a tough loss.
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Terrible game by the Vikes.
However, in all fairness, Warner and those receivers are pretty special. He made throws into very small windows.
I don't think the Vikes secondary was that bad, it was their defensive line that didn't look good. They HAVE to create pressure with their front 4, otherwise everything else breaks down.
Teams can pass the ball on the Vikes if they can keep their QB upright.
On offense, they were a trainwreck. It appears like they got rattled, and tried to score 14 points every time they go the ball. I know AP wasn't having a good night, but this is the type of game where keeping the ball on the ground (and out of Warner's hands) would have been huge.
I love AP, but he (and the offensive line) have turned into a homerun hitter(s). It would be great to see some more consistency out of them (1 would have traded 1 40 yard run for 10 4yard runs last night). I know that's easy for me to type, and a lot harder to do in real life... but they need more consistency on the ground to protect their defense.
Brett looked rattled and frustrated for the first time all year.
Fast defenses with exotic blitz packages can frustrate Favre and Peterson. The Vikes probably need to adjust by getting better at screens, seem plays and possibly the Wildcat and/or reverse plays. These type of plays could slow opposing defenses down a little bit and stop them from shooting every gap trying to get at Peterson's feet.
Realistically, I don't think this was that bad of a loss, and is probably more of a wake-up call. But, the loss of EJ Henderson makes this a tough loss.
Pretty fair analysis. The Vikings' defense is predicated on their ability to create pressure up front, without (or with minimal) blitzing. Teams that can figure out how to block them/minimize their pass rush with play calling can neutralize that advantage.
Offensively, opposing defenses have been trying all year (with varying levels of success) to stop AP and make Favre beat them. The pressure the Cardinals were able to generate clearly affected Favre last night. Frankly, as a Packer fan, that's the kind of performance I'd come to expect from Favre in big (-ish) games (see just about any playoff game since 2001).
Also as a Packer fan (and I just can't help it) I prefer to see the Vikings (and Bears and Lions) lose whenever possible, but even more so with this Vikings team. For my personal well-being, the Vikings cannot have home-field in the playoffs. The prospect of them going to New Orleans somewhat eases my worst fears.
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What a sloppy game last night, but...
a win is a win is a win.
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Pretty fair analysis. The Vikings' defense is predicated on their ability to create pressure up front, without (or with minimal) blitzing. Teams that can figure out how to block them/minimize their pass rush with play calling can neutralize that advantage.
Offensively, opposing defenses have been trying all year (with varying levels of success) to stop AP and make Favre beat them. The pressure the Cardinals were able to generate clearly affected Favre last night. Frankly, as a Packer fan, that's the kind of performance I'd come to expect from Favre in big (-ish) games (see just about any playoff game since 2001).
Also as a Packer fan (and I just can't help it) I prefer to see the Vikings (and Bears and Lions) lose whenever possible, but even more so with this Vikings team. For my personal well-being, the Vikings cannot have home-field in the playoffs. The prospect of them going to New Orleans somewhat eases my worst fears.
Well, nobody had really slowed the Vikes down yet, so, as a fan, I hope this illustrates what they need to work on rather than give other teams a blueprint for how to beat them.
Also, to be fair, Warner made some great throws, and the AZ receivers are second to none. A better pass rush by the Vikes and if Warner misses a couple of throws, it's a different game.
But, football usually comes down to a few key plays. Hats off to AZ.
I still think the Vikes will drop one more and finish at 13-3... which is great... but they have played a terrible schedule, so that certainly helps.
They are a good team, but have their holes, and AZ exposed that on Sunday.
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Sounds like Ray Rice will never don a Packer uniform. Ray Rice no likey Green Bay.
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Sounds like Ray Rice will never don a Packer uniform. Ray Rice no likey Green Bay.
Or he's just bitter about getting shut down and is taking a page from the Ray Lewis handbook.
Isn't he from Piscataway?
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Isn't he from Piscataway?
From Profootballtalk.com:
"Ray? You're from New Rochelle, New York. You went to college in Piscataway, New Jersey. And now you live in Baltimore."
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From Profootballtalk.com:
"Ray? You're from New Rochelle, New York. You went to college in Piscataway, New Jersey. And now you live in Baltimore."
Haha yeah he probably should just keep his mouth shut.
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Did Ray Rice do/say something dumb? I didn't watch most of the game, and feel I am missing out on some sort of back story.
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After Monday night's 27-14 loss, Rice took aim at the stadium in which the game was played, and the city in which the stadium is situated.
"To be honest with you, it was just Lambeau Field," Rice said, per Drew Olson of OnMilwaukee.com. "I didn't see anything special. They put us in the middle of nowhere and it's not a real exciting place.
"Everything about this place is terrible, to be honest with you."
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Big deal, his team just lost, he fumbled, and he plays in the AFC on a team that has only been in their current location for a handful of years.
I am guessing if he had the opportunity to play for Green Bay, he might gain a better understanding of what the team means to the city.
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Yesterday, Favre played exactly how I thought he would play all season.
He wasn't really that good, but made some nice audibles, and made 3 or 4 clutch throws that made the difference in the game (couple of 3rd downs and the TD pass). This is why I thought he could be effective.
The INT was his fault, but it wasn't a bad play. The receiver was open (behind the defender), but Brett didn't get enough air under the ball as he was running from pressure. Should have thrown the ball away, but the receiver was open, so it's not a terrible play.
AP looked better, and Chester is looking pretty good. I'd like to actually see Taylor get more carries, and/or him and Peterson in the game at the same time (very rare).
Harvin was definitely missed. Hopefully he comes back next week.
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Yes.. Favre was fine - came through when he needed to and for the most part didn't try to do too much. This is what I wanted from him, but he's done a heckuva lot more this season.
Our o-line wasn't overly impressive.. not as bad as the Arizona game, but they weren't moving Cinci a ton. AP didn't get any 100+ mph speeding tickets, didn't fumble and didn't get significantly injured this week so I'm happy.
I'm with you on Chester and AD together in the backfield -- would love to see it.
Poor Percy. I wonder if he's tried biofeedback/self-hypnosis. Sounds geigh, but it worked for me... but if dude's had these migraines for years, he's probably tried just about everything.
Antoine was back in top form coming off the injury.. it was like he hadn't missed any time. Need him healthy for the playoffs.
With rookies starting at MLB and SS, I thought the defense played well. Palmer could do nothing. The Williams boys were doing their thing yesterday...
It didn't seem as big several weeks ago, but wow.. that victory at Lambeau was huge. Even though they suck like no other and should be disbanded as a franchise, I do not want to face Green Bay in the playoffs. It would be fun for the storylines, etc.. and the Metrodome would once again be insane (as it always is - GREAT fans in a bad stadium that sells out everytime).. but GB is very capable of taking us down and it would be demoralizing to the point of likely needing to be committed to a mental institution if we lost.
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Yes.. Favre was fine - came through when he needed to and for the most part didn't try to do too much. This is what I wanted from him, but he's done a heckuva lot more this season.
Our o-line wasn't overly impressive.. not as bad as the Arizona game, but they weren't moving Cinci a ton. AP didn't get any 100+ mph speeding tickets, didn't fumble and didn't get significantly injured this week so I'm happy.
I'm with you on Chester and AD together in the backfield -- would love to see it.
Poor Percy. I wonder if he's tried biofeedback/self-hypnosis. Sounds geigh, but it worked for me... but if dude's had these migraines for years, he's probably tried just about everything.
Antoine was back in top form coming off the injury.. it was like he hadn't missed any time. Need him healthy for the playoffs.
With rookies starting at MLB and SS, I thought the defense played well. Palmer could do nothing. The Williams boys were doing their thing yesterday...
It didn't seem as big several weeks ago, but wow.. that victory at Lambeau was huge. Even though they suck like no other and should be disbanded as a franchise, I do not want to face Green Bay in the playoffs. It would be fun for the storylines, etc.. and the Metrodome would once again be insane (as it always is - GREAT fans in a bad stadium that sells out everytime).. but GB is very capable of taking us down and it would be demoralizing to the point of likely needing to be committed to a mental institution if we lost.
Great point about Winfield... i completely forgot about that.
I think he's honestly the best tackler on the team, and maybe the best in the league. That guy is tough, and has great form. RARELY misses.
The Packers are feasting on a weak schedule, just like the Vikes have been... but they are still a pretty dangerous team.
When they were 4-4, I didn't think they were as bad as everybody was saying. I think they just ran into a buzzsaw getting the Vikes that early in the season.
Packers are definitely a good playoff team, but it will take a lot to handle the Cards. If the Cards can keep momentum going, they are a scary bunch.
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For those following the weather, the Bears can not get to Baltimore, and it looks like they might not have a chance to get there until mid Sunday morning, at the absolute earliest.
Originally the Bears had a 10:00 am flight this morning (Saturday) to get to Baltimore, and once the weather looked like trouble, they tried to leave Friday evening at 10:30. Except for long distance cross country flights, it's typical of most NFL teams to leave the morning before a game.
Not clear yet what will happen to this game. NFL already moved it from a noon (CST) kick to 3:15. NBC has an exclusive window for Sunday night, so the game can't get pushed back to Sunday evening. Only other option is Monday night, broadcast on either NFL Network or ESPN local (Chicago/Baltimore).
Maybe it's a blessing the Bears can't get there and avoid the inevitable blowout loss.
In the event the Bears do fly out Sunday morning and play Sunday afternoon, pound the Ravens giving 11...for fun of course.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4761127 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4761127)
Nice. So since the calendar turned to December, he has posted QB ratings of 79.2, 73.4, and 73.7, 3 TD's and 5 INT, and his coach tried to bench him last night (I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that he felt the need to do so, or the fact the he wasn't able to do so). If I didn't know better, I would say I was looking at his game log from last season. Good news is they get to play the hapless Bears next week. The bad news is, there won't be any bad teams in the playoffs (except maybe the Packers).
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4761127 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4761127)
Nice. So since the calendar turned to December, he has posted QB ratings of 79.2, 73.4, and 73.7, 3 TD's and 5 INT, and his coach tried to bench him last night (I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that he felt the need to do so, or the fact the he wasn't able to do so). If I didn't know better, I would say I was looking at his game log from last season. Good news is they get to play the hapless Bears next week. The bad news is, there won't be any bad teams in the playoffs (except maybe the Packers).
It's been ugly, that's for sure.
To be honest, I'm more concerned with the running game.
A team with a good running game, good defense and a QB with ratings in the 80's can still be a very good team.
A team with no running game, a worn out defense and a QB with a rating in the 80's will probably lose a lot of games.
IF (big if) the Vikes can run the ball, it will keep their defense off of the field (fresher legs) and save Favre from dropping back 35 times per game.
I don't know what will happen in the next 2 games. I'll say that the Vikes will win, but I might be looking through my purple glasses.
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It's been ugly, that's for sure.
To be honest, I'm more concerned with the running game.
A team with a good running game, good defense and a QB with ratings in the 80's can still be a very good team.
A team with no running game, a worn out defense and a QB with a rating in the 80's will probably lose a lot of games.
IF (big if) the Vikes can run the ball, it will keep their defense off of the field (fresher legs) and save Favre from dropping back 35 times per game.
I don't know what will happen in the next 2 games. I'll say that the Vikes will win, but I might be looking through my purple glasses.
No idea how the Favre-Childress situation will play out, but I would imagine that once the playoffs roll around the running game will pick up again. The bigger problem is the loss of EJ Henderson. Teams have been running all over you since that injury. That may pose a problem.
I'm okay with the Packers losing that game on Sunday. Not okay - but there's worse things that can happen. We continue to do one thing that good playoff teams do and that's not turn the ball over. The penalty situation needs to iron itself out, and the replacement DBs for Al Harris need to step up. A win against Seattle at home should do a lot towards solidifying a playoff spot for good.
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No idea how the Favre-Childress situation will play out, but I would imagine that once the playoffs roll around the running game will pick up again. The bigger problem is the loss of EJ Henderson. Teams have been running all over you since that injury. That may pose a problem.
I'm okay with the Packers losing that game on Sunday. Not okay - but there's worse things that can happen. We continue to do one thing that good playoff teams do and that's not turn the ball over. The penalty situation needs to iron itself out, and the replacement DBs for Al Harris need to step up. A win against Seattle at home should do a lot towards solidifying a playoff spot for good.
I agree that EJ is a bigger problem than Favre right now.
As far as the Favre-Childress "situation", I think it's much ado about nothing.
Honestly, I want my QB to be competitive and want to stay in the game. If Chilly really wanted him to sit down, he could have made him sit down... but Brett convinced him to let him stay in. I don't think it's a big issue.
Also, I hate the media. If the Vikes had won the game, they would have been touting how tough Brett is for staying in the game and leading the Vikings to a victory.
But, since they lost, some media members do a story about how Brett is running the team.
Blah, blah, blah.
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I agree that EJ is a bigger problem than Favre right now.
As far as the Favre-Childress "situation", I think it's much ado about nothing.
Honestly, I want my QB to be competitive and want to stay in the game. If Chilly really wanted him to sit down, he could have made him sit down... but Brett convinced him to let him stay in. I don't think it's a big issue.
Also, I hate the media. If the Vikes had won the game, they would have been touting how tough Brett is for staying in the game and leading the Vikings to a victory.
But, since they lost, some media members do a story about how Brett is running the team.
Blah, blah, blah.
Welcome to the Brett Favre experience.
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I agree that EJ is a bigger problem than Favre right now.
As far as the Favre-Childress "situation", I think it's much ado about nothing.
Honestly, I want my QB to be competitive and want to stay in the game. If Chilly really wanted him to sit down, he could have made him sit down... but Brett convinced him to let him stay in. I don't think it's a big issue.
Also, I hate the media. If the Vikes had won the game, they would have been touting how tough Brett is for staying in the game and leading the Vikings to a victory.
But, since they lost, some media members do a story about how Brett is running the team.
Blah, blah, blah.
Brett is running the team. Chilly has that scared and confused look Sherman had. Get ready for a 5 pick rocketball game soon.
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Brett is running the team. Chilly has that scared and confused look Sherman had. Get ready for a 5 pick rocketball game soon.
Thanks, this cracked me up! :D
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Welcome to the Brett Favre experience.
Well, as a Viking fan living in Packerland, I have been living it for years.
The common thread in all of this is: Win.
If Favre and the Vikes win, he's a hero and none of this stuff will matter. If they lose, it's all his fault and Childress had no control over the team.
God forbid anybody (especially the media) actually see a middle ground.
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Brett is running the team. Chilly has that scared and confused look Sherman had. Get ready for a 5 pick rocketball game soon.
I hope not.
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Well, as a Viking fan living in Packerland, I have been living it for years.
The common thread in all of this is: Win.
If Favre and the Vikes win, he's a hero and none of this stuff will matter. If they lose, it's all his fault and Childress had no control over the team.
God forbid anybody (especially the media) actually see a middle ground.
It's not that Favre wasn't controlling the team when they were winning, he was just playing well as he controlled the team. Now he is not playing well, and still is controlling the team. From day 1 he has had more control over this team and organization than anybody else. Chilly wants Favre in for all pre-season practices and activities or not in at all. Favre thus stays retired. Oh, 2-a-days are done? Favre now wants to come back and play some ball. He just loves the game so much. Oh, by the way, Chilly, the guy you wanted at mini-camp, go pick him up from the airport, be his person chauffeur from our private plane to our facilities.
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It's not that Favre wasn't controlling the team when they were winning, he was just playing well as he controlled the team. Now he is not playing well, and still is controlling the team. From day 1 he has had more control over this team and organization than anybody else. Chilly wants Favre in for all pre-season practices and activities or not in at all. Favre thus stays retired. Oh, 2-a-days are done? Favre now wants to come back and play some ball. He just loves the game so much. Oh, by the way, Chilly, the guy you wanted at mini-camp, go pick him up from the airport, be his person chauffeur from our private plane to our facilities.
Well, I won't go as far as to say that Favre is controlling the Vikings. I think that is just too simplistic.
That's like saying "Jordan ran the Bulls" because MJ got in guys faces at practice and Phil didn't pull him off. Guess what? Phil didn't pull MJ off because the players have to be accountable to each other, not because he doesn't have "control".
Truth is, veteran players (especially star players) have a huge influence over how the team operates. This isn't high school football. The players have a lot of input in how teams are run because veteran players know football almost as well as the coordinators.
Now, as far as Chilly accepting Favre on the Vikings after his "deadline" or whatever, I think Chilly made a good choice. Certainly Favre brings more drama, but he's also played great so far this season.
Certainly Chilly would have more "control" over Tavaris Jackson, but he would also be "controlling" a 9-7 or 10-6 team. It's not the end of the world to give up some "control" if it makes the company more successful.
With all of this said, if Chilly really wanted to get Brett out of the game, I bet he could have... but Brett pleaded his case and wanted to compete. I don't think that's a huge issue.
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Well, I won't go as far as to say that Favre is controlling the Vikings. I think that is just too simplistic.
That's like saying "Jordan ran the Bulls" because MJ got in guys faces at practice and Phil didn't pull him off. Guess what? Phil didn't pull MJ off because the players have to be accountable to each other, not because he doesn't have "control".
Truth is, veteran players (especially star players) have a huge influence over how the team operates. This isn't high school football. The players have a lot of input in how teams are run because veteran players know football almost as well as the coordinators.
Now, as far as Chilly accepting Favre on the Vikings after his "deadline" or whatever, I think Chilly made a good choice. Certainly Favre brings more drama, but he's also played great so far this season.
Certainly Chilly would have more "control" over Tavaris Jackson, but he would also be "controlling" a 9-7 or 10-6 team. It's not the end of the world to give up some "control" if it makes the company more successful.
With all of this said, if Chilly really wanted to get Brett out of the game, I bet he could have... but Brett pleaded his case and wanted to compete. I don't think that's a huge issue.
Have to agree that it's not that big of an issue. I'll use the Packers as an example (because this is a NFC North discussion). If the Packers were winning 7-6 and the coach wanted to pull Rodgers. First question, as fans would you want Rodgers pulled? Second question, would you be content with Rodgers kicking back and sitting on the bench with a smile on his face or would you want him to argue with the coach to stay in the game?
I'm personally not a fan of either the Vikings or the Packers, but if the starting quarterback of my team didn't fight to stay in a 7-6 game, I would want a new QB next year that has a competitive bone in his body.
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Have to agree that it's not that big of an issue. I'll use the Packers as an example (because this is a NFC North discussion). If the Packers were winning 7-6 and the coach wanted to pull Rodgers. First question, as fans would you want Rodgers pulled? Second question, would you be content with Rodgers kicking back and sitting on the bench with a smile on his face or would you want him to argue with the coach to stay in the game?
I'm personally not a fan of either the Vikings or the Packers, but if the starting quarterback of my team didn't fight to stay in a 7-6 game, I would want a new QB next year that has a competitive bone in his body.
I would agree if it was just that. But the audibles and other issues - there is more to it. This is Burt being Burt. This is why he hated Ted and Mac - because they wouldn't give into his demands. Chilly is just cumdumpster - his bitch if you will.
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I would agree if it was just that. But the audibles and other issues - there is more to it. This is Burt being Burt. This is why he hated Ted and Mac - because they wouldn't give into his demands. Chilly is just cumdumpster - his bitch if you will.
Riiiiight.
It's that simple.
McCarthy wouldn't give into Brett.
Chilly lets Brett do whatever he wants.
Brett Favre is the Owner of the Minnesota Vikings.
That God it's not more complicated than that. ::)
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Riiiiight.
It's that simple.
McCarthy wouldn't give into Brett.
Chilly lets Brett do whatever he wants.
Brett Favre is the Owner of the Minnesota Vikings.
That God it's not more complicated than that. ::)
It pretty much is. Holmgren had him on shorter leash. Rhodes was an idiot. Sherman let Brett do what Brett wanted. Mac would have none of it. It's not hard to figure out if you talk to a few people or read a few articles.
Chilly looks the exact same way. Hey, you want to deny what everyone else see's be my guest.
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It pretty much is. Holmgren had him on shorter leash. Rhodes was an idiot. Sherman let Brett do what Brett wanted. Mac would have none of it. It's not hard to figure out if you talk to a few people or read a few articles.
Chilly looks the exact same way. Hey, you want to deny what everyone else see's be my guest.
I saw that in the first Vikings vs. Packers game, up 30-20, killing clock...run play called, he audibled into a deep pass and stopped the clock. That's not a guy that is just trying to win.
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It pretty much is. Holmgren had him on shorter leash. Rhodes was an idiot. Sherman let Brett do what Brett wanted. Mac would have none of it. It's not hard to figure out if you talk to a few people or read a few articles.
Chilly looks the exact same way. Hey, you want to deny what everyone else see's be my guest.
To be fair, there is a lot of truth to what you are saying. I can't deny that.
I'm simply saying that life, and specifically personal relationships, are rarely able to be explained in such neat little boxes and compartments as "Sherman let Brett do what Brett wanted. Mac would have none of it." and/or "Brett is running the team."
It's not this simple. It CAN'T be this simple.
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This article is exactly why I hate modern sports media.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4767366
Ed Werder might have had 1/2 of this thing written a month ago. If Brett and Chilly were having such problems, I bet the reporters knew about it. They SHOULD have known about it if it was such a problem.
BUT, when the Vikes were winning, it pays to write "Brett Favre is GREAT!" stories... now that they have lost a couple of games, it pays to write "Brett Favre is a problem stories".
It's not really journalism. It's just about selling papers or gaining viewership.
When they were 10-1, nobody dared print a story like this, even though apparently this has been a problem all year.
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Ed Werder might have had 1/2 of this thing written a month ago. If Brett and Chilly were having such problems, I bet the reporters knew about it. They SHOULD have known about it if it was such a problem.
I guess I would disagree with you...this is being written now because of the events that specific events that have transpired over the last couple days.
Although the two have discussed their recent disagreement -- which became public when Favre resisted Childress' attempts to pull him from Sunday night's loss in Carolina...
At news conferences on Wednesday, Childress and Favre said they had spoken and resolved to move forward. Childress said they had a "good talk" on Monday and Wednesday about their disagreement
These are Favre and Childress' words, not Werders. Perhaps it was known/suspected that there was some tension or differences in philosophy, but until that manifests itself in some way, why would there be any reason for anyone to know about it, let alone write about it?
Also entirely possible, if not probable that Favre has actually taken the step of starting to call more of those audibles (and calling his number instead of 28), against the coach's wishes, where earlier in the year that may not have been the case. Seems to me that would be something to write about, as it seems to be what is/was happening.
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I guess I would disagree with you...this is being written now because of the events that specific events that have transpired over the last couple days.
Although the two have discussed their recent disagreement -- which became public when Favre resisted Childress' attempts to pull him from Sunday night's loss in Carolina...
At news conferences on Wednesday, Childress and Favre said they had spoken and resolved to move forward. Childress said they had a "good talk" on Monday and Wednesday about their disagreement
These are Favre and Childress' words, not Werders. Perhaps it was known/suspected that there was some tension or differences in philosophy, but until that manifests itself in some way, why would there be any reason for anyone to know about it, let alone write about it?
Also entirely possible, if not probable that Favre has actually taken the step of starting to call more of those audibles (and calling his number instead of 28), against the coach's wishes, where earlier in the year that may not have been the case. Seems to me that would be something to write about, as it seems to be what is/was happening.
But what about these lines:
"What happened in Carolina and in several other games this season in which Childress considered removing Favre for too often changing running plays into pass attempts has nothing to do with Childress attempting to protect his 40-year-old quarterback from punishment or wanting to replace Favre with a quarterback who offers a different style, sources said."
"According to sources, Favre dislikes that Childress seldom discusses the game plan with him during the week, and does not encourage the quarterback to offer suggestions as to which plays he feels most comfortable calling in certain situations. When Favre changes the play at the line of scrimmage -- using his film study and experience -- Childress bristles, even when the audible Favre calls works perfectly."
So, this has been happening for a while, Childress has had issues with him already, but it's been a non-story until they had a "heated discussion" on the sideline?
I dunno, just seems like lazy reporting. If this was happening all season, why are "sources" just leaking it now? Have the Vikings beat reporters known about this for a while, but held back because writing a negative story about a 10-1 team would draw the ire of the fans? Did ESPN dismiss some reports because it didn't match up with the "feel good" Favre story?
I have a hard time believing that nobody knew about this until now. Every story in the St. Paul paper up until now has been about how Favre always stays late to watch film. Nobody bothered to report that Favre's own film study might not match what the head coach has in mind.
Seems too convenient. When they win, write stories about how Brett stays late. When they lose, write about how Brett doesn't get along with the coach.
WTF.
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"Childress bristles"... what does that mean? Stupid.
There is nothing different now from preseason week 3... except that 'old man Favre' may be slowing down a bit (still a far better option than Tarvaris or Sage).
Fingers are easy to point after losing to a weak team. Oakland winning is a far bigger story.
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Hmmm... tough game.
Brett's numbers look good because of the second 1/2 comeback, but he didn't play great. Certainly good, but not great.
The biggest problem tonight was the lack of pass rush (leads to exposure in the secondary) and the poor special teams play. 1 missed Extra point, poor kick coverage, and no impact returns.
When the Vikes were rolling early in the season, defense and special teams were making it much easier for the offense.
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So, the Vikings are who they are every year?
Just checking ;D
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So, the Vikings are who they are every year?
Just checking ;D
Actually, they are going to the superbowl.
I have to say that because I'm a Vikings fan, right?
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Actually, they are going to the superbowl.
I have to say that because I'm a Vikings fan, right?
no, I just want you make a concrete decision either way.
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Vikings are the consensus pick to win the Super Bowl.
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The Vikings may not win another game all year.
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Adrian Peterson has to be happy not to see Hunter Hillenmeyer again this season. Hillenmeyer has forced 3 fumbles against Peterson.
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no, I just want you make a concrete decision either way.
Well, I LIKE the Vikings... but was/am smart enough to recognize the team's shortcomings.
I would love it if they went to the superbowl, but I just don't see it.
Secondary has too many holes, the offensive line isn't as good as everybody thought, and the defensive line looks 1/2 step slow (I actually think we are watching the defense age before our eyes).
I picked the Colts a while back (not a gutsy pick, I know), but I'll stick with it. This is a QB's league now, and Peyton is a lot better than anybody else. (please note: this doesn't mean I'm now a "colts fan", it just means if I had a gun to my head and had to pick a team, that is who I picked to win)
I have the ability to root for my favorite team (Vikes), yet try to look at the situation objectively... similar to when I fill out a bracket that has MU in it. I WANT to pick MU for the final 4 every year... but I can't do it.
EDIT: Page 9 of this thread illustrates what I said a month back.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15633.200
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Well, I LIKE the Vikings... but was/am smart enough to recognize the team's shortcomings.
I would love it if they went to the superbowl, but I just don't see it.
Secondary has too many holes, the offensive line isn't as good as everybody thought, and the defensive line looks 1/2 step slow (I actually think we are watching the defense age before our eyes).
I picked the Colts a while back (not a gutsy pick, I know), but I'll stick with it. This is a QB's league now, and Peyton is a lot better than anybody else. (please note: this doesn't mean I'm now a "colts fan", it just means if I had a gun to my head and had to pick a team, that is who I picked to win)
I have the ability to root for my favorite team (Vikes), yet try to look at the situation objectively... similar to when I fill out a bracket that has MU in it. I WANT to pick MU for the final 4 every year... but I can't do it.
EDIT: Page 9 of this thread illustrates what I said a month back.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15633.200
hey, you're the one who wanted to rehash this. Not me. :)
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Vikings are the consensus pick to win the Super Bowl.
Yup, the consensus in Edina!
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hey, you're the one who wanted to rehash this. Not me. :)
Fair enough, I just wanted to illustrate again that just because I like the vikes doesn't mean I think they are going to the superbowl.
I think they are a good team that played a weak schedule, and they are in disarray right now.
A home game on Sunday will help. I think they will win.
Not sure what the playoffs hold however. Pass defense is a big issue, and the running game isn't consistent enough to protect the defense.
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What needs to happen for the Vikings to play the Packers in the first round? I want to know who to root for this weekend. As an impartial observer that "hates" both teams, there is something appealing about watching A Rodg throw for about 450 and knock Favre out of the playoffs in the dome.
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What needs to happen for the Vikings to play the Packers in the first round? I want to know who to root for this weekend. As an impartial observer that "hates" both teams, there is something appealing about watching A Rodg throw for about 450 and knock Favre out of the playoffs in the dome.
jsonline packers blog has the possibilities.
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What needs to happen for the Vikings to play the Packers in the first round? I want to know who to root for this weekend. As an impartial observer that "hates" both teams, there is something appealing about watching A Rodg throw for about 450 and knock Favre out of the playoffs in the dome.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/80270892.html
"Here's the most likely scenario in which it would happen:
•The Vikings lose at home to the New York Giants.
•The Packers lose on the road to the Arizona Cardinals.
•The Philadelphia Eagles win on the road against the Dallas Cowboys."
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http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/80270892.html
"Here's the most likely scenario in which it would happen:
•The Vikings lose at home to the New York Giants.
•The Packers lose on the road to the Arizona Cardinals.
•The Philadelphia Eagles win on the road against the Dallas Cowboys."
I have to say I see all three of those things as very real possibilities. The Vikings loss is probably the longest shot, but I will be somewhat surprised if they don't get the Giants best effort this weekend.
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The Vikings loss is probably the longest shot, but I will be somewhat surprised if they don't get the Giants best effort this weekend.
Or not...Boy do the Giants suck.
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#4 has exceeded all of my expectations.
They have some holes on this team, but they will be tough to beat at home.
The speed of the turf and the noise make a big difference to that defensive line.
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Or not...Boy do the Giants suck.
The Giants should be ashamed of themselves. What a pathetic excuse for a football team.
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I'm glad Brett's arm didn't fall off like so many said it would. Incredible numbers.. completion percentage, yard per attempt, +26 TDs (33) over INTs (7), 107.2 passer rating... I think all tops in his career. Amazing. Obviously it helps when you're with such a stellar franchise.
The Pro Bowl itself is a joke (all 'all star' games are), but I feel great about nine Vikings being named to the roster.
In the playoffs, anything goes.. losing in the divisional championship would blow.. losing to GB in either round would be physically painful.. but I wouldn't be surprised at anything in the NFC. We've got a very good chance. Last year entering the playoffs I felt terrible and was thinking we had no chance.. this year, sky's the limit.
I hope Antoine can play (well). The Brinkleys, Sanfords, Sapps, A. Allens need to come through... and we'll be fine.
Erin Rodgers is a helluva QB and Green Bay looks flat out dangerous. I don't like that.
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Yup, the consensus in Edina!
cake eaters.
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I'm glad Brett's arm didn't fall off like so many said it would. Incredible numbers.. completion percentage, yard per attempt, +26 TDs (33) over INTs (7), 107.2 passer rating... I think all tops in his career. Amazing. Obviously it helps when you're with such a stellar franchise.
The Pro Bowl itself is a joke (all 'all star' games are), but I feel great about nine Vikings being named to the roster.
In the playoffs, anything goes.. losing in the divisional championship would blow.. losing to GB in either round would be physically painful.. but I wouldn't be surprised at anything in the NFC. We've got a very good chance. Last year entering the playoffs I felt terrible and was thinking we had no chance.. this year, sky's the limit.
I hope Antoine can play (well). The Brinkleys, Sanfords, Sapps, A. Allens need to come through... and we'll be fine.
Erin Rodgers is a helluva QB and Green Bay looks flat out dangerous. I don't like that.
Must be a special day. I agree with all of the above.
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Dish....
Any clue on who is getting fired at the Bears presser today? Turner, Lovie, Both, neither?
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Dish....
Any clue on who is getting fired at the Bears presser today? Turner, Lovie, Both, neither?
Lovie is back next year. I would assume Turner too.
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Lovie is back next year. I would assume Turner too.
Turner is reported as gone.
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Ron Turner has as much chance of being the Bears' OC next season as I do.
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Ron Turner has as much chance of being the Bears' OC next season as I do.
I would believe anything with the Bears based on the length of time that John Shoop was employed by the organization.
So congrats.
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I would believe anything with the Bears based on the length of time that John Shoop was employed by the organization.
Are you saying that John Shoop was a bad OC?
2006 Oakland Raiders (32nd)
2005 Oakland Raiders (21st in NFL)
2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (22nd in NFL)
2002-2003 Chicago Bears (28th in NFL)
2001-2002 Chicago Bears (29th in NFL)
2000-2001 Chicago Bears (26th in NFL)
1999-2000 Chicago Bears (23rd in the NFL)
1997-1998 Carolina Panthers (26th in NFL)
1996-1997 Carolina Panthers (23rd in NFL)
1995-1996 Carolina Panthers (26th in NFL)
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Yikes. Bad would be an understatement.
But which is worse, the guys who is that bad at his job, or the 4 different GMs that gave him a job for 11 years.
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Turner is reported as gone.
Turner is gone and they are going to promote Marinelli to Def Coord....being reported by the tabloid SunTimes.
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Turner is gone and they are going to promote Marinelli to Def Coord....being reported by the tabloid SunTimes.
Look out NFC!
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Turner is gone and they are going to promote Marinelli to Def Coord....being reported by the tabloid SunTimes.
Now they are saying Marinelli as DC is not true.
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I was wanting lovie to be fired but i'm ok seeing him get another chance with a new OC.
I wasn't' really excited about any of the old coaches who already one candidates out there. Historically that's not the best way to go.
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I was wanting lovie to be fired but i'm ok seeing him get another chance with a new OC.
I wasn't' really excited about any of the old coaches who already one candidates out there. Historically that's not the best way to go.
I would have been excited at the prospect of Shanahan or Cowher(sp).
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I would have been excited at the prospect of Shanahan or Cowher(sp).
If you look at the track record of past their prime coaches who have already won a superbowl. I was excited about the cowher possiblility until i heard him bad mouth the wildcat. It was just too old school. Rules have changed, players have changed, i'm worried about old dogs and new tricks.
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If you look at the track record of past their prime coaches who have already won a superbowl. I was excited about the cowher possiblility until i heard him bad mouth the wildcat. It was just too old school. Rules have changed, players have changed, i'm worried about old dogs and new tricks.
Past his prime? Cowher is 52 and 4 years off a Super Bowl win, I think he is fine. As far as the wildcat hate, not everyone loves it, and not everyone runs it. I don't think its any more stupidly old school then Lovie Smith still making idiotic comments about getting off the bus running when he has a Pro Bowl caliber QB and a garbage OL that can't run block.
As a Bears fan, the presser today made me extremely annoyed and angry, not because Lovie and Angelo were given more time, but because of the stupidity and pathetic attitude of Ted Phillips. Making comments about how no team or coach in the NFL can be consistently good (what?) and consistently reiterating that the team was fine. Admit the team is flawed at certain positions and talking about improving them! And Angelo mentioned how they need to draft better, well that is hard when you are trading your only first day pick for an undersized bust of a DE. I fear the future, despite the promise and excitement I got from Cutler the last 2 weeks.
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Sorry, just saw this now. I had heard on Sunday it was a lock that Lovie would be back, and so we saw at that embarrassment of a press conference today. These "changes" are just putting a bow tie on a piece of crap. Same defensive philosophy, new face next season. New offensive coordinator, which I'm sure will be a hot job to go after, with Lovie sitting as a lame duck coach. I'm hearing outside chance of Jim Fassel being looked at. Jeremy Bates rumors are out there. I'd be shocked if it was Martz (according to my Bears guy, he said the same).
This whole "change" was only predicated by the lockout coming next March. I understand it as a business move, saving roughly $20 million makes sense, but as a fan, it made no sense.
NFL is going to look so different soon. Enjoy these playoffs. Teams like the Raiders, Jags, Bills, Titans, Cardinals, Bengals are going to become the NFL version of the Pittsburgh Pirates and KC Royals. Everyone's talking about the lack of a salary cap, but it's the lack of a salary ceiling that is radically going to change the NFL. The model small market NFL franchise is the Pack. While their gross revenues aren't great (and never will be because they play in Green Bay), their net revenues are near the top of the league because they're so well run.
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Vikes win again.
They are VERY tough at home.
Not sure what will happen next week.
Realistically, the Vikes can't seem to run the ball well enough to control the game, so it will come down to their defense.
If they can rush Brees, they have a shot. If he has time, he will carve up the Vikes secondary.
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Viking fan prediction next week: Vikes lose by 20.
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Viking fan prediction next week: Vikes lose by 20.
I hear ya, New Orleans is super tough at home and looked very sharp yesterday.
It should be entertaining.
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I hear ya, New Orleans is super tough at home and looked very sharp yesterday.
It should be entertaining.
New Orleans didn't look super tough at home when Dallas came to town... can't wait for Miami!!!! SKOL VIKINGS!
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New Orleans didn't look super tough at home when Dallas came to town... can't wait for Miami!!!! SKOL VIKINGS!
We had no turnovers against New Orleans a few weeks ago, today we coughed the ball up all over the place. Turnovers are a killer. It's that simple. If you hang on to the ball, you have a great shot at beating New Orleans.
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Dallas is upset we 'ran up the score'.. hilarious. What a bunch of gutless punk a$s losers:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4834737
"Cowboys coach Wade Phillips said the Vikings ran up the score, and Brooking agreed.
"I thought it was classless," Brooking said. "I thought it was B.S. Granted, we get paid to stop them, but we had zero timeouts left. I didn't think there was any call for that."
Shiancoe laughed after hearing Brooking's comments. "OK, we apologize. I'm sorry. Better?""
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Dallas is upset we 'ran up the score'.. hilarious. What a bunch of gutless punk a$s losers:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4834737
"Cowboys coach Wade Phillips said the Vikings ran up the score, and Brooking agreed.
"I thought it was classless," Brooking said. "I thought it was B.S. Granted, we get paid to stop them, but we had zero timeouts left. I didn't think there was any call for that."
Shiancoe laughed after hearing Brooking's comments. "OK, we apologize. I'm sorry. Better?""
Upset? Play some defense.
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I didn't see any problem with the score....emotions run high when teams lose....the Vikings are used that many many times in the playoffs over 50 years.
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I loved the extra TD.
Everybody in America was high on Dallas last week. The Vikes heard a ton of national media say Dallas would win.
Nice for the players to make a little statement at the end of the game.
They look really good, clearly they deserve to be in the NFC title game.
Now, I know some people will disagree with me, but I say even with a loss to the Saints, the "favre experiment" was worth it. He's clearly giving the Vikings the best chance to win this season.
I know a lot of people think it "superbowl or bust", but I don't think it's that simple or black and white.
Next season, I have no idea who will play QB. Maybe Brady Quinn?
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I understand what your saying, but I don't see how it can be anything but Super Bowl or bust. Not sure you can call it a failure, but that's why he was brought to MN. Its not as if they were a 4-12 team. They were in the playoffs last year as it was, and brought back almost the same team...actually they improved their roster independent of QB. They won a bunch of regular season games and 1 playoff game at home. This Sunday is what he was brought in for. If they don't go to the Super Bowl, what do they have that makes the 'experiment' worth it? Fact is, by this time next week, whoever loses might as well be Arizona, or Dallas, or Green Bay.
As the NFL has proven time and time again, next year is anything but guaranteed. If they lose Sunday, is there really any appreciable difference between what they accomplished in 2008/09 and 2009/10?
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I loved the extra TD.
Everybody in America was high on Dallas last week. The Vikes heard a ton of national media say Dallas would win.
Nice for the players to make a little statement at the end of the game.
They look really good, clearly they deserve to be in the NFC title game.
Now, I know some people will disagree with me, but I say even with a loss to the Saints, the "favre experiment" was worth it. He's clearly giving the Vikings the best chance to win this season.
I know a lot of people think it "superbowl or bust", but I don't think it's that simple or black and white.
Next season, I have no idea who will play QB. Maybe Brady Quinn?
if you think Brett Favre won't be back, you are kidding yourself.
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if you think Brett Favre won't be back, you are kidding yourself.
It's been a back and forth decision for him since 2001, what makes you so sure?
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It's been a back and forth decision for him since 2001, what makes you so sure?
history?
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I understand what your saying, but I don't see how it can be anything but Super Bowl or bust. Not sure you can call it a failure, but that's why he was brought to MN. Its not as if they were a 4-12 team. They were in the playoffs last year as it was, and brought back almost the same team...actually they improved their roster independent of QB. They won a bunch of regular season games and 1 playoff game at home. This Sunday is what he was brought in for. If they don't go to the Super Bowl, what do they have that makes the 'experiment' worth it? Fact is, by this time next week, whoever loses might as well be Arizona, or Dallas, or Green Bay.
As the NFL has proven time and time again, next year is anything but guaranteed. If they lose Sunday, is there really any appreciable difference between what they accomplished in 2008/09 and 2009/10?
Well, I would say that they have a legitimate shot at making the superbowl this year.
Last year's team did not.
This year's team without Favre probably wouldn't have a shot.
Therefore, I think it's a mild success even if they lose.
Look at it this way, what did it hurt? Their choices were Jackson or Favre. Favre was an upgrade.
Here's another scenario: CC Sabathia. Yes he got the Brewers to the playoffs, but they didn't even make it out of the first round. Was it worth it? I'd say yes.
Without Favre, the Vikes probably don't get the second seed and may or may not have made the playoffs.
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Ugh... here we go again. As 2002mualum and I recognized before the season started, Favre to the Vikings would be a terrible, stupid worthless decision to some of you unless the Vikings won the Super Bowl with Favre passing for 6 TDs and 500 yards and getting the MVP of the game.
The fact of the matter is we didn't have a good QB - and were able to bring on a great one. Therefore it made sense. It was a huge upgrade to our QB situation and therefore I was OK with the decision on day 1. Simple as that. The Favre signing was a good move the moment Chilly scooped him up from the airport. It was an immediate success in that we gave ourselves a better chance for success this season, including raising the probability of us reaching the Super Bowl.
Having now made it two rounds further in the playoffs than last year, I believe this season is a success. Will I be disappointed if we don't make it to the Super Bowl? Absolutely. But, without Favre it's unlikely we find ourselves anywhere close to where we stand today.
And as much as I think Zigi is a weirdo, props to the Wilf's for spending money on this team. It's nice to see for once in the state of Minnesota.
SKOL VIKINGS!
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I understand where you are coming from Jay Bee and I agree with you. Plus, this season has probably been a lot of fun for Vikings fans. And that has to factor in too... If Sage Rosenfels was the quarterback, and the Vikings lost on the road yesterday to the Cowboys, my guess is that it wouldn't have been nearly the adventure that this season was. And as a fan, that should count for something.
As as a Packer fan, rooting for them during the Favre era was a lot of fun, even though they only won one Super Bowl.
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Here's another scenario: CC Sabathia. Yes he got the Brewers to the playoffs, but they didn't even make it out of the first round. Was it worth it? I'd say yes.
Without Favre, the Vikes probably don't get the second seed and may or may not have made the playoffs.
Very different situations. The brewers had not been to the playoffs in a quarter century. That was their goal, and he helped the achieve it. Nobody had any illusions of the Brewers making the World Series. The Viking have been in the playoffs, just last year as a matter of fact, and if they don't win Sunday, really, how did they accomplish anything more this year than last? Does one playoff win really do anything for you? I'm sure it has been fun for the fans, and I agree that has some value, but make no mistake about what the goal for the Vikings was this year...to be playing on February 4th.
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The Viking have been in the playoffs, just last year as a matter of fact, and if they don't win Sunday, really, how did they accomplish anything more this year than last? Does one playoff win really do anything for you? I'm sure it has been fun for the fans, and I agree that has some value, but make no mistake about what the goal for the Vikings was this year...to be playing on February 4th.
First off, who would want to play on a Thursday night in February? We're aiming for February 7th. Can you list for me the teams that did NOT have a goal of making it to the Super Bowl? We accomplished much more this year, but the key is that we gave ourselves a better chance. You can downplay 'one playoff win' all you want, but the reality is some knuckleheads thought both Chicago and Green Bay would compete for the NFC North title this year (although the Vikes were the CONSENSUS CHAMPS!!). To win back to back division titles, to be the #2 seed, to make it to the NFC Championship.. all huge and yes, making it to the NFC Championship game is a bigger accomplishment than limping into the playoffs and having a wildcard game that you feel like you're going to lose, then you do lose.
Having 9 named to the Pro Bowl is an accomplishment. Beating Green Bay twice was very fun. I also think Sidney Rice's career has benefitted from playing with Brett Favre... his confidence is sky high and something he can build on (also props to Cris Carter and Larry Fitz for helping the young man).
Of course, I will admit the upsetting part of the year that may haunt us for years to come - extending Childress. FAK!
Even today, where we sit.. with T-Jack starting at NO, I would be preparing for disappointment. However, with Favre, a guy that I despised for many years, I am a true believer - in the team and in our QB.
Sultan, you're right on... it's been an extremely fun season... a circus was possible, but we got away from the 'schizm' quickly and the Brett/Brad 'beef' has been muted. Plus, Brett does a better rendition of 'Pants On The Ground' than Sage or Tarvaris ever could.
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Very different situations. The brewers had not been to the playoffs in a quarter century. That was their goal, and he helped the achieve it. Nobody had any illusions of the Brewers making the World Series. The Viking have been in the playoffs, just last year as a matter of fact, and if they don't win Sunday, really, how did they accomplish anything more this year than last? Does one playoff win really do anything for you? I'm sure it has been fun for the fans, and I agree that has some value, but make no mistake about what the goal for the Vikings was this year...to be playing on February 4th.
The Vikes were in the playoffs last year, but they haven't had a good shot at the superbowl since 1998.
That makes Favre worth it.
Also, they didn't give anything up to get him, so even if/when he walks away, I still say it was worth it.
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Hey Jay Bee,
You've got money. Congrats.
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No comment necessary, but I'll make one anyway...the Viking defense played about as well as they could have in the second half, and the Vikings hillbilly QB once again, literally throws the game away. Would they have been in the game without him? No, probably not, but now they have one more playoff win than they did last season, and now its back to the drawing board where QB is concerned (If they bring him back next year, they're nuts).
He got them to the game, so it was absolutely a risk worth taking, but he also lost it, so I guess in the end, it is more or less a net zero.
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No comment necessary, but I'll make one anyway...the Viking defense played about as well as they could have in the second half, and the Vikings hillbilly QB once again, literally throws the game away. Would they have been in the game without him? No, probably not, but now they have one more playoff win than they did last season, and now its back to the drawing board where QB is concerned (If they bring him back next year, they're nuts).
He got them to the game, so it was absolutely a risk worth taking, but he also lost it, so I guess in the end, it is more or less a net zero.
As much as I've harped on Brett over the years, you can't fumble the ball as many times as they did and expect to win. Yes, really dumb throw on his part and his career is littered with really really dumb throws. If his teammates would have hung on to the other ones, he wouldn't have had to throw that one. I feel bad for him in a way.
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Good ol Bert finally came through for me!!! What a game.
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Has he announced his retirement yet?
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No comment necessary, but I'll make one anyway...the Viking defense played about as well as they could have in the second half, and the Vikings hillbilly QB once again, literally throws the game away. Would they have been in the game without him? No, probably not, but now they have one more playoff win than they did last season, and now its back to the drawing board where QB is concerned (If they bring him back next year, they're nuts).
He got them to the game, so it was absolutely a risk worth taking, but he also lost it, so I guess in the end, it is more or less a net zero.
#1 The throw sucked.
#2 The 5 yard penalty for too many men in the huddle was definitely dumber and probably a bigger killer. They could have run the ball and had a decent shot at a game winner.
#3 I think it's definitely a net gain. He had a great season (better than anybody predicted), helped create a lot of excitement for the franchise and got them to the NFC championship game for the first time in 10 years.
What was the downside? Was Jackson going to take them to the superbowl? I can't imagine that... so brett was definitely worth it.
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734 days ago GB fans experienced exactly what MIN fans are feeling right now. I was in Lambeau Field that night. Favre threw the pick, and I knew it was over. Didnt say a word the next 3 hours on the ride home. Went to Murphys and starred into a beer for a couple of hours.
I wouldnt wish that heartbreak on anyone.......except Vikings fans ;D (oh yea, and Cubs fans)
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BTW, what the hell happened to Adrian Peterson...the guy has had more fumbles than yards the second half of the season. Whether that was in part a result of Favre's presence is tough to say...I happen to think so, and was one of the reasons I thought the Favre signing was not a great idea. They had a great year, so maybe not a big deal, but dude flat disappeared down the stretch.
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BTW, what the hell happened to Adrian Peterson...the guy has had more fumbles than yards the second half of the season. Whether that was in part a result of Favre's presence is tough to say...I happen to think so, and was one of the reasons I thought the Favre signing was not a great idea. They had a great year, so maybe not a big deal, but dude flat disappeared down the stretch.
Are you saying that Favre has something to do with Peterson's fumbles?
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That is hilarious. The local news hasn't even started after the game and the FOX guys are already debating whether Favre will retire.
With all of the questions in life today, the stock market, health care, natural disasters...it's nice to know some things don't change. Favre ends seasons throwing interceptions and spends offseasons making sure everyone is still talking about him.
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Are you saying that Favre has something to do with Peterson's fumbles?
Of course not, and you clearly know that's not what I'm saying. I do think it is reasonable to conclude that Favre has something to do with his lack of yards however. Again, they won games, so who really cares, but one does have to wonder if they stuck to running the ball more...
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Clearly we made the wrong choice by not starting T-Jack.
We are now paying the price.
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The Glorious Franchise is now not only 0-4 in the Super Bowl, but 0-5 in the NFCCG since their last Super Bowl loss.
LOL.
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Clearly we made the wrong choice by not starting T-Jack.
We are now paying the price.
Favre opened the window of opportunity, no question, but surprising to nobody, took that chance and threw it to the Saints with a stupid decision in a big spot. The problem for the Vikings of course is that they don't have Aaron Rodgers sitting on the bench for next year, so its back to trying to develop Jackson or Sage. A good year for Viking fans to be sure, but the teams has very little to show for the Favre experience. Teams go up and down real quick in the NFL, so who knows what will happen. One things for sure, if Adrian Peterson doesn't turn back into Adrian Peterson next year, the Vikings are going to SUCK!
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Of course not, and you clearly know that's not what I'm saying. I do think it is reasonable to conclude that Favre has something to do with his lack of yards however. Again, they won games, so who really cares, but one does have to wonder if they stuck to running the ball more...
I really didn't know what you were trying to say (honest, I read your post a few times.). I hear what you are saying now.
As far as Brett reducing Adrian's production, I really don't think so.
Peterson still had 1700 total yards and 18 tds (career high). He touched the ball 27 less times this season. I don't think that's a huge difference.
He also got the ball 54 times in the 2 playoff games... it's not like they didn't use him. How many times a game do you think they should use him? Its easy to say "more", but I don't think there is a magic number, ya know?
I can obviously see that AP didn't dominate like in past years, but that's probably more on the offensive line and on him than on a lack of use or touches.
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Almost forgot that contract extension that Childress got...nice!
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Favre opened the window of opportunity, no question, but surprising to nobody, took that chance and threw it to the Saints with a stupid decision in a big spot. The problem for the Vikings of course is that they don't have Aaron Rodgers sitting on the bench for next year, so its back to trying to develop Jackson or Sage. A good year for Viking fans to be sure, but the teams has very little to show for the Favre experience. Teams go up and down real quick in the NFL, so who knows what will happen. One things for sure, if Adrian Peterson doesn't turn back into Adrian Peterson next year, the Vikings are going to SUCK!
To be fair, I think he surprised all of us with how good he still is.
You can pound your chest now all you want, but nobody predicted that he'd play this well this season.
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He had a good game today outside of teh fumbles, but the second half of the year, hsi carries were down and he was quite average.
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He had a good game today outside of teh fumbles, but the second half of the year, hsi carries were down and he was quite average.
Absolutely, he didn't dominate in the 2nd half of the year.
But, I don't think that has to do with Favre, do you? It seems like that's what you are getting at.
He had 163 carries in the first half of the season, 151 in the second half of the season. Not a huge difference when you factor in that he only had 9 carries against the Giants in week 17.
Plenty of blame to go around, but I'm not sure Favre is responsible for Peterson's production.
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Favre opened the window of opportunity, no question, but surprising to nobody, took that chance and threw it to the Saints with a stupid decision in a big spot. The problem for the Vikings of course is that they don't have Aaron Rodgers sitting on the bench for next year, so its back to trying to develop Jackson or Sage. A good year for Viking fans to be sure, but the teams has very little to show for the Favre experience. Teams go up and down real quick in the NFL, so who knows what will happen. One things for sure, if Adrian Peterson doesn't turn back into Adrian Peterson next year, the Vikings are going to SUCK!
I can't blame the Vikings for taking a shot with Favre. They clearly had all the pieces in place for a run this year...they just needed a better quarterback. And they got one. This is why I am pretty certain that he comes back next year. The Vikings have everyone back...they are loaded. I see no reason why they wouldn't be considered one of the NFC favorites.
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I can't blame the Vikings for taking a shot with Favre. They clearly had all the pieces in place for a run this year...they just needed a better quarterback. And they got one. This is why I am pretty certain that he comes back next year. The Vikings have everyone back...they are loaded. I see no reason why they wouldn't be considered one of the NFC favorites.
I agree with this... BUT
I think the defense is starting to age, and the drop-off of an "old" defense is usually very dramatic (see: Bears, Chicago).
It will be interesting to see what offseason moves the Vikes make.
I don't think Favre could possibly be as good next season, but he could be "good enough" if they can reload some talent into the right places. (d-line is great, but high mileage, secondary could use some youth and an impact player (only 11 INTs this season) and the offensive line was not as good as advertised, but has some decent young guys)
It's an uncapped year, but there are restrictions on the best teams, so that could limit their ability to try to sign a veteran player(s).
I think the Packers are set up nicely if they can have another good draft.
I think the Bears are in deep trouble unless they can find some diamonds in the rough in the late rounds of the draft.
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Well, if the defense is *that* old, than the window is even smaller. IMO, that makes a Favre return even more likely. And I think even if they have a fall off, they will be good enough. Face it, it should have been good enough yesterday against one of the more high-powered offenses in football.
The Packers should do well, but I think Thompson needs to take a page out of Wolf's book and sign a couple free agents that can add some leadership to the defensive side of the ball.
The Bears will be bad. That defense is getting very old...they still have no receivers...and their search for offensive and defensive coordinators is almost comical.
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Well, if the defense is *that* old, than the window is even smaller. IMO, that makes a Favre return even more likely. And I think even if they have a fall off, they will be good enough. Face it, it should have been good enough yesterday against one of the more high-powered offenses in football.
The Packers should do well, but I think Thompson needs to take a page out of Wolf's book and sign a couple free agents that can add some leadership to the defensive side of the ball.
The Bears will be bad. That defense is getting very old...they still have no receivers...and their search for offensive and defensive coordinators is almost comical.
Agree 100% on all points.
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Favre will be a Bear next season!
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I can't blame the Vikings for taking a shot with Favre. They clearly had all the pieces in place for a run this year...they just needed a better quarterback. And they got one. This is why I am pretty certain that he comes back next year. The Vikings have everyone back...they are loaded. I see no reason why they wouldn't be considered one of the NFC favorites.
Brett Favre did not lose that game there was plenty of blame to go around, plus the Saints defense has lived off of turnovers this season. They don't have the best defense but they are ball hawks just as the Bears were several years ago. More and more it seems as if receivers are either becoming more careless with the ball or corners are just looking to punch it out more.
As a Bears fan, I can admit I was rooting for the Saints. Yet IMO I have a ton of respect for Favre and he pours his heart into the game and he just looks drained after this season. Joe Buck even pointed out that he looked exhausted in an interview midweek before the game. That being said I hope he comes back because it is good for football.
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Brett Favre did not lose that game there was plenty of blame to go around, plus the Saints defense has lived off of turnovers this season. They don't have the best defense but they are ball hawks just as the Bears were several years ago. More and more it seems as if receivers are either becoming more careless with the ball or corners are just looking to punch it out more.
As a Bears fan, I can admit I was rooting for the Saints. Yet IMO I have a ton of respect for Favre and he pours his heart into the game and he just looks drained after this season. Joe Buck even pointed out that he looked exhausted in an interview midweek before the game. That being said I hope he comes back because it is good for football.
He was exhausted because of the man on man session Buck had with him earlier this week. It continued well into the game...I could hardly hear the play by play over all the slurp noises.
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Brett Favre did not lose that game
Yes he did. They were tied and in (or at least close to?) field goal range, he could have ran 3 yards and slid but instead he threw the ball cross body, into the center of the field. It was the most bone headed decision a qb can make. And would be the perfect ending to his carreer. Played well, won a lot of games and killed his team with a rookie mistake at a big moment.
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I think Trent Dilfer said it best this morning on Cowherd's show. Favre is the reason his teams get where they are and he's been the reason they leave when they do (though I don't totally agree with that on yesterday's game....could have been 9 turnovers, but 5 is still a killer).
He's a player that just sucks you in because he does things that are so incredible and yet he does things that are so incredible (negatively).
I think he comes back, but who knows. If this game was in Minnesota, they win. Basically they screwed the pooch down the stretch losing to some teams they probably shouldn't have. Tough way to go out, dumb dumb throw (again), but he was magnificent last week against Dallas and this week his team couldn't hang on to the ball (doesn't excuse the dumb throw).
Another year....probably.
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Yes he did. They were tied and in (or at least close to?) field goal range, he could have ran 3 yards and slid but instead he threw the ball cross body, into the center of the field. It was the most bone headed decision a qb can make. And would be the perfect ending to his carreer. Played well, won a lot of games and killed his team with a rookie mistake at a big moment.
I don't think one play loses anything. It's a game of plays all game long. Two key turnovers in the red zone by the Vikings that cost them a minimum of 6 points if not 14 were killer. If they don't blow those, Favre is not in that position to throw the pick. That being said, another dumb throw in a critical playoff game. Favre leads the NFL in history in those.
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I can't blame the Vikings for taking a shot with Favre. They clearly had all the pieces in place for a run this year...they just needed a better quarterback. And they got one. This is why I am pretty certain that he comes back next year. The Vikings have everyone back...they are loaded. I see no reason why they wouldn't be considered one of the NFC favorites.
You might even say... CONSENSUS!
Great year, painful ending. I just hope to know whether or not Favre is coming back sometime in the next 4 months and not in September.
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Basically they screwed the pooch down the stretch losing to some teams they probably shouldn't have.
Like the Bears. :D
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Like the Bears. :D
Yup...Bears, Panthers, etc
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You might even say... CONSENSUS!
Great year, painful ending. I just hope to know whether or not Favre is coming back sometime in the next 4 months and not in September.
When is the last day of 2 a day practices. I suspect there will be a press conference about 2pm that day with his announcement.
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He is already playing the game.
Brett Favre's return for another season is "highly unlikely, but it has been an awesome year," the Minnesota Vikings quarterback told ESPN's Ed Werder after the Vikings' loss to the New Orleans Saints in the NFC Championship Game on Sunday.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4857006
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You have to give it to Favre he took a beating last night. I have never seen him get hit so hard and so often whether you hate the guy or love the guy he was gritty. He wore it out on the football field and during the press conference.
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You have to give it to Favre he took a beating last night. I have never seen him get hit so hard and so often whether you hate the guy or love the guy he was gritty. He wore it out on the football field and during the press conference.
But did he fart in the huddle?
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He is already playing the game.
Brett Favre's return for another season is "highly unlikely, but it has been an awesome year," the Minnesota Vikings quarterback told ESPN's Ed Werder after the Vikings' loss to the New Orleans Saints in the NFC Championship Game on Sunday.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4857006
I understand that Packer fans are rolling their eyes at Brett again, but in reality, what is he supposed to say?
I'm by no means excusing his previous flip/flopping ways... but in all honesty, there is nothing he can say right now that would please anybody. If he says he's retiring, nobody would believe him. If he says he's coming back, people would doubt that as well.
His best bet is to keep a low profile, but he's not the best at that.
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You have to give it to Favre he took a beating last night. I have never seen him get hit so hard and so often whether you hate the guy or love the guy he was gritty.
Yep, and like always, he made sure to put on a good show for the TV cameras to demonstrate just how gritty he is as well.
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I understand that Packer fans are rolling their eyes at Brett again, but in reality, what is he supposed to say?
I'm by no means excusing his previous flip/flopping ways... but in all honesty, there is nothing he can say right now that would please anybody. If he says he's retiring, nobody would believe him. If he says he's coming back, people would doubt that as well.
His best bet is to keep a low profile, but he's not the best at that.
For the record, not a Packer fan.
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I understand that Packer fans are rolling their eyes at Brett again, but in reality, what is he supposed to say?
I'm by no means excusing his previous flip/flopping ways... but in all honesty, there is nothing he can say right now that would please anybody. If he says he's retiring, nobody would believe him. If he says he's coming back, people would doubt that as well.
His best bet is to keep a low profile, but he's not the best at that.
Agreed on the former. Precedent has been set. Disagree on the latter. When he's said he's coming back, he's come back.
All he has to do is say "I'm coming back" and that pretty much solves it.
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http://media2.620wtmj.com/sportscentral/FavreINT%5B1%5D.mp3 (http://media2.620wtmj.com/sportscentral/FavreINT%5B1%5D.mp3)
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Agreed on the former. Precedent has been set. Disagree on the latter. When he's said he's coming back, he's come back.
All he has to do is say "I'm coming back" and that pretty much solves it.
Yes, and no.
For some people it will be good enough.
Some people will still come out and rip him.
"He's coming back, huh? Is he going to come in the Saturday before week 1?"
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I understand that Packer fans are rolling their eyes at Brett again, but in reality, what is he supposed to say?
I'm by no means excusing his previous flip/flopping ways... but in all honesty, there is nothing he can say right now that would please anybody. If he says he's retiring, nobody would believe him. If he says he's coming back, people would doubt that as well.
His best bet is to keep a low profile, but he's not the best at that.
The man needs a filter.
He should have said, "I am not making a decision at this time. As you all know, I love to play football, but I am not the spring chicken I used to be. I will take some time this off season and evaluate my abilities and drive. I will not make public statements until I have made up my mind either way."
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/images/01/25/FavreINT.mp3
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The man needs a filter.
He should have said, "I am not making a decision at this time. As you all know, I love to play football, but I am not the spring chicken I used to be. I will take some time this off season and evaluate my abilities and drive. I will not make public statements until I have made up my mind either way."
I agree with you, but he's never been that polished, which I think is part of his appeal.
He appears genuine when he speaks. (not sure if he is all of the time).
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/images/01/25/FavreINT.mp3
Is that color commentator at the end forty and a man?
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Is that color commentator at the end forty and a man?
It's Vikings announcers supposedly. They were really going after Favre....
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It's Vikings announcers supposedly. They were really going after Favre....
Yeah, Paul Allen is the play-by-play guy that was flat out pissed. Also in the audio, but not freaking out quite as much, is Pete Bercich, who played for the Vikings for about 5 years (but, he's a FIB and went to Notre Dame, so there you go...). On the audio, it's PA at the beginning.. and the end...
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Yeah, Paul Allen is the play-by-play guy that was flat out pissed. Also in the audio, but not freaking out quite as much, is Pete Bercich, who played for the Vikings for about 5 years (but, he's a FIB and went to Notre Dame, so there you go...). On the audio, it's PA at the beginning.. and the end...
PA was so confident of a Super Bowl that he was already making reservations for Miami last week. And I don't blame him. I wonder if he was taking his crack head side kick on his morning show with him?
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I guess I am not sure which one it was at the end, but he sounded exactly like that college coach Mike Gundy.
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http://www.bestweekever.tv/2010-01-25/utter-despair-sounds-like-the-local-minnesota-vikings-announcers/
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Bears Hire Martz...
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=6521
Not quite sure what I think.
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Not much else they could do. After Bates went to Seattle, they were essentially stuck. I don't blame people for turning down the job. Why someone would want to have little to no job security made the job unattractive. Martz was desperate to get back into coaching, so all in all, the move made sense on that front, combined with Martz's and Lovie's history together.
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Why someone would want to have little to no job security made the job unattractive.
Due to Lovie's current "lame duck" status?
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Correct, and from what I had heard previously, they were offering a 1 year deal with a club option for 2011. I'm not sure what Martz's deal looks like, but no coach/person would find that attractive.
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Correct, and from what I had heard previously, they were offering a 1 year deal with a club option for 2011. I'm not sure what Martz's deal looks like, but no coach/person would find that attractive.
Also unattractive: The Bears' offense.
/had to
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I don't know about everyone else, but this worries me as a Packer fan. There's no denying Cutler has talent, and there's no denying Martz' ability to work with QBs and teach his offense effectively. Sure, there's downsides. He doesn't keep enough protection in oftentimes and it leads to his QBs getting killed. But there's lots of options, lots of combination routes, and plenty of looks downfield. Cutler is plenty tough enough to take those hits, I think, and I'm worried about what might happen if they land a couple talented WRs either in free agency or the draft.
This signing hits me the same way the Gregg Williams signing did in New Orleans last off season. Kind of under the radar, but overtaking a unit with a couple talented pieces that really weren't being utilized or motivated correctly. I even said something about the Williams signing in the old pissing match thread late last off season. Martz is a bit eccentric, but he really knows his stuff when it comes to designing a passing offense, which is what it takes to win in the NFL right now.
Do I think the Bears have the people to compete for a division title next year? Maybe, but that defense is in dire need of young talent, and the offensive line needs at least a cursory revamp if they want Martz's offense to be at all effective. They might be closer than the rest of us think if Martz can get to Cutler, though.
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This is great news for Packer and Viking fans (as far as next year goes anyway). Just a dumb move. There will be entirely new personnel and coaching staffs in Chicago a year from now.
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This is great news for Packer and Viking fans (as far as next year goes anyway). Just a dumb move. There will be entirely new personnel and coaching staffs in Chicago a year from now.
What about Detroit fans...are you trying to say that this is a 3 team division?
So how is it a dumb move? According to your post it does not matter who they hire, they will all be gone anyway. So no matter who they hire it would be a dumb move according to you.
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What about Detroit fans...are you trying to say that this is a 3 team division?
So how is it a dumb move? According to your post it does not matter who they hire, they will all be gone anyway. So no matter who they hire it would be a dumb move according to you.
Probably thinks it is dumb because they need to put a whole new offense in that will probably be scrapped for another one at this time next year. Or maybe that they should have promoted from within if no one is going to be around in the coming years.
EDIT: punctuation
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Probably thinks it is dumb because they need to put a whole new offense in that will probably be scrapped for another one at this time next year.
EDIT: punctuation
Or it could be Martz's audition for the following years head coaching postion.
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So how is it a dumb move? According to your post it does not matter who they hire, they will all be gone anyway. So no matter who they hire it would be a dumb move according to you.
When did I say that?
I am saying that this move is just another dumb move in a long line of dumb moves, and will lead them to another losing season which will more or less be the final straw for Lovie and Angelo.
Absolutely the wrong guy for their personnel, and with a lack of draft picks, they simply are not going to be able to remake the roster enough to make a difference. The result will be another bad, joke of a season, and the house cleaning that should have taken place over the last month, will take place next year.
The indictments could not be more obvious...the two teams they faced in the NFC Championship and Super Bowl 3 years ago will be playing each other on Sunday, while the Bears can't get out of their own way, and haven't been back to the playoffs since.
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When did I say that?
I am saying that this move is just another dumb move in a long line of dumb moves, and will lead them to another losing season which will more or less be the final straw for Lovie and Angelo.
Absolutely the wrong guy for their personnel, and with a lack of draft picks, they simply are not going to be able to remake the roster enough to make a difference. The result will be another bad, joke of a season, and the house cleaning that should have taken place over the last month, will take place next year.
The indictments could not be more obvious...the two teams they faced in the NFC Championship and Super Bowl 3 years ago will be playing each other on Sunday, while the Bears can't get out of their own way, and haven't been back to the playoffs since.
Agree 100%. I thought you were just saying hiring Martz was a dumb move.
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I don't know if it's as dumb as it was a predictable move. I don't see how it changes anything drastic in the short term. They'll most likely be 7-9 again next year, and clean house. If anything it's a good long term move, as it seals Lovie and Angelo's fate. The Cowher overtures are legit, mainly due to the presence of Cutler. If hiring Martz now means Cowher long term, sign me up.
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I picked the Colts earlier in this thread.
I was wrong. I admit it.
I really thought it was Payton's year.
Congrats to the Saints. They played an awesome game.
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I picked the Colts earlier in this thread.
I really thought it was Payton's year.
It was Payton's year. Not just Peyton's year. ;)
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It was Payton's year. Not just Peyton's year. ;)
Touche.
I'm an even bigger loser now. :(
Oh well... spring training is right around the corner.