NFC North Intelligent, Civilized Discussion 09/10 season

[GOMU1104]

What do you find so objectionable about my first post comparing stats?

I know you think this is some grand set-up, but I'm just comparing the 2 teams.

I would make the comparison between the Vikes and the Saints, but I thought the Packers were a more interesting subject seen as this thread is about the NFC North.

You have been doing this all season...that way, when they lose in the Divisional Playoff round you can come back and say "see, I told you in Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec they werent that good!"

And I already konw your response to this, so I will take care of it for you....

"YES, YOURE RIGHT, IM WRONG ITS A CONSPIRACY...MIAMI OR BUST!!!"

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You have been doing this all season...that way, when they lose in the Divisional Playoff round you can come back and say "see, I told you in Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec they werent that good!"

And I already konw your response to this, so I will take care of it for you....

"YES, YOURE RIGHT, IM WRONG ITS A CONSPIRACY...MIAMI OR BUST!!!"

Well, I've been saying it all along because that is what I honestly think. I'm not going to lie just to make my posts more fun for you to read.

Quick Assessment:
- They have an unproven coaching staff
- An aging QB who is playing great, but still could run out of gas
- Great running back, but not as good of a running game as is past years
- A defense that has a great pass rush, but isn't particularly strong as pass defending
- Unproven receivers that are having career years (who knows how they will play in big games)

They are a good team. I believe that. But, it's not like they won the superbowl last season and started this season 9-1. They are still relatively unproven, unlike the Colts, Patriots, Arizona and New York, who all have a lot of playoff experience and have good teams this year.

If the Vikings win the superbowl, you can blast me 1000x for being an idiot. I promise, I will admit that I was wrong. You can call me every name in the book. In fact, if you want to put $ on it, I'd go for that as well. What kind of odds do you want?

[Hards Alumni]

so you are taking the odds?

exactly.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

so you are taking the odds?

exactly.

Fine. I'll take the colts.

Who are you taking?

[Hards Alumni]

The Patriots.

But if my team were the Vikings, I'd be picking them... which is really our point.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The Patriots.

But if my team were the Vikings, I'd be picking them... which is really our point.

I think there is some miscommunication.

I'm a Vikings fan, so I have to bet on them to win the superbowl?

Is that what you guys are saying?

[LON]

Kampman and Harris out for the year.

I love Kampman but watching him in pass coverage was truly gut-wrenching and just when it seems he may be "getting it" he goes down for the year (rushing the passer, ironically).  Unfortunately we won't be seeing that anymore.  Thompson couldn't get a sack of apples for him now and he'll most likely walk in FA over the offseason.  Harris (another favorite of mine), most likely ended his career yesterday.  No way a guy that age coming off an ACL injury gets a fair shot at coming back next year (even though still under contract).

Will be interesting to see how those defensive numbers (that 2002mualum pointed out) change during the rest of the season.  At least we'll have a Stafford-less Lions squad on Turkey Day and then the MU game.

[Hards Alumni]

I think there is some miscommunication.

I'm a Vikings fan, so I have to bet on them to win the superbowl?

Is that what you guys are saying?

no, you don't.  But you have to say, as a Vikings fan, that they won't win the super bowl.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

no, you don't.  But you have to say, as a Vikings fan, that they won't win the super bowl.

Wait, that is what I'm saying, isn't it?

I'm saying they won't win the superbowl.

[MU B2002]

I am taking the Vikings.  Every team has flaws right now, but I think they have all the pieces needed to win it.  The only thing that could stop them (besides injuries, but that is obvious) would be Childress. IMHO

[GGGG]

Kampman and Harris out for the year.

I love Kampman but watching him in pass coverage was truly gut-wrenching and just when it seems he may be "getting it" he goes down for the year (rushing the passer, ironically).  Unfortunately we won't be seeing that anymore.  Thompson couldn't get a sack of apples for him now and he'll most likely walk in FA over the offseason.  Harris (another favorite of mine), most likely ended his career yesterday.  No way a guy that age coming off an ACL injury gets a fair shot at coming back next year (even though still under contract).

Will be interesting to see how those defensive numbers (that 2002mualum pointed out) change during the rest of the season.  At least we'll have a Stafford-less Lions squad on Turkey Day and then the MU game.

With Harris, I am interested to see how well Tramon Williams plays in his place.  I like Williams a lot as a nickle back, but we'll have to see how he adjusts to a full time role.  If Harris is still under contract, my guess is that he will have plenty of opportunities to play again for the Packers.

[IAmMarquette]

Kampman and Harris out for the year.

I love Kampman but watching him in pass coverage was truly gut-wrenching and just when it seems he may be "getting it" he goes down for the year (rushing the passer, ironically).  Unfortunately we won't be seeing that anymore.  Thompson couldn't get a sack of apples for him now and he'll most likely walk in FA over the offseason.  Harris (another favorite of mine), most likely ended his career yesterday.  No way a guy that age coming off an ACL injury gets a fair shot at coming back next year (even though still under contract).

Will be interesting to see how those defensive numbers (that 2002mualum pointed out) change during the rest of the season.  At least we'll have a Stafford-less Lions squad on Turkey Day and then the MU game.

As far as Kampman is concerned, he's been one of my favorite Packers over the last several seasons. Unfortunately, it's pretty clear that he's miscast in the 3-4. With the switch, I'm not sure the loss of Kampman is a huge one. In the Dallas game (small sample size, to be sure) Brad Jones (rookie) acquitted himself quite well.

The loss of Harris could be much more problematic. Without Harris, Charles Woodson's role could change dramatically, from do-everything-defensive-player-of-the-year-candidate to shut-down corner only. This changes the entire dynamic of the defensive secondary. As we saw earlier in the year, the Packers' secondary was a mess without Nick Collins. I can only hope the loss of Harris won't have the same effect.

[LON]

With Harris, I am interested to see how well Tramon Williams plays in his place.  I like Williams a lot as a nickle back, but we'll have to see how he adjusts to a full time role.  If Harris is still under contract, my guess is that he will have plenty of opportunities to play again for the Packers.

Opportunities yes, but will they keep a spot on the roster for an aged (football years) corner that is best suited for bump and run and not zone?

I don't see it.  But those are problems for next year, I agree with the poster re: Kampman and the 3-4, will be fun to see what the future at his spot will look like.

[NavinRJohnson]

I think they overcome the Kampman injury just fine. Harris? Probably another story. I suspect Williams will be able to fill in ok at CB, but that creates a huge hole in the nickle and dime packages. This forces the one Packer who should not be on the team, let alone the field in Jarret Bush, onto the field. That is a nightmare scenario for the Packer defense.

[LON]

I think they overcome the Kampman injury just fine. Harris? Probably another story. I suspect Williams will be able to fill in ok at CB, but that creates a huge hole in the nickle and dime packages. This forces the one Packer who should not be on the team, let alone the field in Jarret Bush, onto the field. That is a nightmare scenario for the Packer defense.

Almost makes you want Ahmed Carrol back (who is available again)...

[Dish]

Pretty fascinating last month of the season coming up (unless you're a Bears fan like me). From an NFC playoff picture stand point, this will be a pretty interesting month.

I think the 6 NFC playoff teams that would qualify now will be your 6 teams in a month from now. If the Giants lose this week or next week at home, they're probably toast.

Right now it would be set as: 1. Saints, 2. Vikings, 3. Cowboys, 4. Cardinals, 5. Eagles, 6. Packers

I think the Cardinals will eventually end up with the 3 seed (look at their remaining sked: vs Min, @ SF, @ Det, vs Stl, vs GB). Cowboys are @ NYG, vs SD, @ NO, @ Was, vs Phi).

Week 17 has the potential to be very interesting...Packers @ Cardinals, Eagles @ Cowboys. Potentially, those two games, in those two same locations, could happen the following wild card weekend. If that happened, would the NFL make the Pack play on Saturday of wild card weekend?

If I'm a Packers fan, I would desperately want to lock up that 5 seed. 6 seed guarantees you (assuming a win on wild card weekend) a visit to New Orleans in round 2. 5 seed at least gives the Pack a third chance at the Vikings (which I could see them pulling off the upset).

Lot of football left, but interesting to think about.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Pretty fascinating last month of the season coming up (unless you're a Bears fan like me). From an NFC playoff picture stand point, this will be a pretty interesting month.

I think the 6 NFC playoff teams that would qualify now will be your 6 teams in a month from now. If the Giants lose this week or next week at home, they're probably toast.

Right now it would be set as: 1. Saints, 2. Vikings, 3. Cowboys, 4. Cardinals, 5. Eagles, 6. Packers

I think the Cardinals will eventually end up with the 3 seed (look at their remaining sked: vs Min, @ SF, @ Det, vs Stl, vs GB). Cowboys are @ NYG, vs SD, @ NO, @ Was, vs Phi).

Week 17 has the potential to be very interesting...Packers @ Cardinals, Eagles @ Cowboys. Potentially, those two games, in those two same locations, could happen the following wild card weekend. If that happened, would the NFL make the Pack play on Saturday of wild card weekend?

If I'm a Packers fan, I would desperately want to lock up that 5 seed. 6 seed guarantees you (assuming a win on wild card weekend) a visit to New Orleans in round 2. 5 seed at least gives the Pack a third chance at the Vikings (which I could see them pulling off the upset).

Lot of football left, but interesting to think about.

The NFL would LOVE Packers vs Vikings (again). It would only be better if the Packers were somehow at home.

[MU B2002]

Pretty fascinating last month of the season coming up (unless you're a Bears fan like me).

C'mon there is a lot to be excited about for us Bears fans.

1. Can they secure a top ten pick?
2. Will Chicago fire Lovie/Turner or both?
3. Will Cutler ever get shoulder pads that fit? that little shoulder thing he does is annoying.  

It will be a very exciting month.

[Dish]

I think you meant "Can they secure a top ten pick...for the Denver Broncos?"

[MU B2002]

I think you meant "Can they secure a top ten pick...for the Denver Broncos?"

Poop.  Forgot about that.

[muarmy81]

C'mon there is a lot to be excited about for us Bears fans.

It will be a very exciting month.

As a Bears fan I've focused my attention and potential excitement squarely on the shoulders of the MU BB Team...and the possibility that Turner will get the ax.

[NavinRJohnson]

I think you meant "Can they secure a top ten pick...for the Denver Broncos?"

Pretty sure they don't have a 2nd round pick for next year either.

[Dish]

You are correct sir.

Plenty of Bucs fans and Bronco fans cheering for Bears opponents down the stretch.

[Jay Bee]

Fun season so far... at least for us Vikings.  I will admit I am afraid of Green Bey making the playoffs and beating us in the dome.. that would absolutely ruin the season.  But, hopefully it's us and NO for the NFC Championship.  

There are some great football minds on this site.  I thought back to some of the finer quotes:

Hards_alumni: "WHO IS GOING TO CATCH THE BALL BOBBY WADE?  BERNARD BERRIAN?  PERCY HARVIN?"
and..
"As a Packer fan, I would take Forte over most backs in the league in a cocaine heartbeat."

MUDish: "Forte is hardly "just a guy". There's nothing wrong with a RB catching a ton of passes (see Craig, Roger or Payton, Walter). Forte is an outstanding receiver for a RB, and an outstanding blocking back. He's a borderline Pro Bowl back going into his second season. You really can't ask for much more for a complete back....the guy is the real deal"

PXILibero: "I have enough faith in the fact that I scout every NFL team - starting with the NFC North, then the rest of the conference and beyond - to know that I dwarf what you know about football tenfold.....

Specifically, how a thirty nine year old quarterback with a surgically repaired biceps and a torn rotator cuff who did no offseason work with your team is a better option than a young, growing quarterback.  The only direction Favre can go is south.  This dink and dunk crap that we saw last night will work just fine against the hapless Texans D and their tackle-missing tendencies, but when he's forced to go over the top and "make a play out there", you're going to see him throw away some games for you, and I'm going to enjoy every minute of it."

Navin3atsJohnsons: Navin:
"Obviously it will take Viking fans several weeks to realize what a mistake the Favre signing was, and Bear fans don't know what to do now that they actually seem to have a real QB in town. Should be a fun season...perhaps going all the way to week 17 before anything is decided.

Will Viking fans turn on him before or after the bye week?"

Jay Bee: "if we get through the first four at 4-0 [or] 3-1, I feel great about wrapping this thing up early.

My team is going to win the division, and I have an open offer to those that think otherwise to put their money where their mouth is."

[Dish]

I have no problem with Jay Bee bringing up my comments on Forte. He is a great receiving back, still no question about that. His offensive line has done zero for him this year as well. No question he seems to have lost his burst from a year ago. Whether that's a lack of confidence from early on in the season, or knowing the hole won't be there like he expects, I'm not sure. He still is a great blocking back too, no question there either. Pro Bowl, obviously no way this year.

It has been good to see both the Bears and Lions expose a problem with Adrian Peterson, hanging on to the football. Expect to see more of Chester Taylor down the stretch. Hunter Hillenmeyer provided a good piece of film to upcoming opponents on stripping the ball from AP, considering he did it twice last Sunday.

Bears season may be lost, but old man Favre still has to come to Chicago for a Dec 28th Monday nighter. Should be fun to watch.