NFC North Intelligent, Civilized Discussion 09/10 season

[LON]

From Profootballtalk.com:

"Ray?  You're from New Rochelle, New York.  You went to college in Piscataway, New Jersey.  And now you live in Baltimore."

Haha yeah he probably should just keep his mouth shut.

[MU B2002]

Did Ray Rice do/say something dumb?  I didn't watch most of the game, and feel I am missing out on some sort of back story.

[Dish]

After Monday night's 27-14 loss, Rice took aim at the stadium in which the game was played, and the city in which the stadium is situated.

"To be honest with you, it was just Lambeau Field," Rice said, per Drew Olson of OnMilwaukee.com.  "I didn't see anything special.  They put us in the middle of nowhere and it's not a real exciting place.

"Everything about this place is terrible, to be honest with you."

[MU B2002]

Big deal, his team just lost, he fumbled, and he plays in the AFC on a team that has only been in their current location for a handful of years.   

I am guessing if he had the opportunity to play for Green Bay, he might gain a better understanding of what the team means to the city.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yesterday, Favre played exactly how I thought he would play all season.

He wasn't really that good, but made some nice audibles, and made 3 or 4 clutch throws that made the difference in the game (couple of 3rd downs and the TD pass). This is why I thought he could be effective.

The INT was his fault, but it wasn't a bad play. The receiver was open (behind the defender), but Brett didn't get enough air under the ball as he was running from pressure. Should have thrown the ball away, but the receiver was open, so it's not a terrible play.

AP looked better, and Chester is looking pretty good. I'd like to actually see Taylor get more carries, and/or him and Peterson in the game at the same time (very rare).

Harvin was definitely missed. Hopefully he comes back next week.

[Jay Bee]

Yes.. Favre was fine - came through when he needed to and for the most part didn't try to do too much.  This is what I wanted from him, but he's done a heckuva lot more this season. 

Our o-line wasn't overly impressive.. not as bad as the Arizona game, but they weren't moving Cinci a ton.  AP didn't get any 100+ mph speeding tickets, didn't fumble and didn't get significantly injured this week so I'm happy.

I'm with you on Chester and AD together in the backfield -- would love to see it. 

Poor Percy.  I wonder if he's tried biofeedback/self-hypnosis.  Sounds geigh, but it worked for me... but if dude's had these migraines for years, he's probably tried just about everything. 

Antoine was back in top form coming off the injury.. it was like he hadn't missed any time.  Need him healthy for the playoffs. 

With rookies starting at MLB and SS, I thought the defense played well.  Palmer could do nothing.  The Williams boys were doing their thing yesterday...

It didn't seem as big several weeks ago, but wow.. that victory at Lambeau was huge.  Even though they suck like no other and should be disbanded as a franchise, I do not want to face Green Bay in the playoffs.  It would be fun for the storylines, etc.. and the Metrodome would once again be insane (as it always is - GREAT fans in a bad stadium that sells out everytime).. but GB is very capable of taking us down and it would be demoralizing to the point of likely needing to be committed to a mental institution if we lost. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yes.. Favre was fine - came through when he needed to and for the most part didn't try to do too much.  This is what I wanted from him, but he's done a heckuva lot more this season. 

Our o-line wasn't overly impressive.. not as bad as the Arizona game, but they weren't moving Cinci a ton.  AP didn't get any 100+ mph speeding tickets, didn't fumble and didn't get significantly injured this week so I'm happy.

I'm with you on Chester and AD together in the backfield -- would love to see it. 

Poor Percy.  I wonder if he's tried biofeedback/self-hypnosis.  Sounds geigh, but it worked for me... but if dude's had these migraines for years, he's probably tried just about everything. 

Antoine was back in top form coming off the injury.. it was like he hadn't missed any time.  Need him healthy for the playoffs. 

With rookies starting at MLB and SS, I thought the defense played well.  Palmer could do nothing.  The Williams boys were doing their thing yesterday...

It didn't seem as big several weeks ago, but wow.. that victory at Lambeau was huge.  Even though they suck like no other and should be disbanded as a franchise, I do not want to face Green Bay in the playoffs.  It would be fun for the storylines, etc.. and the Metrodome would once again be insane (as it always is - GREAT fans in a bad stadium that sells out everytime).. but GB is very capable of taking us down and it would be demoralizing to the point of likely needing to be committed to a mental institution if we lost. 

Great point about Winfield... i completely forgot about that.

I think he's honestly the best tackler on the team, and maybe the best in the league. That guy is tough, and has great form. RARELY misses.

The Packers are feasting on a weak schedule, just like the Vikes have been... but they are still a pretty dangerous team.

When they were 4-4, I didn't think they were as bad as everybody was saying. I think they just ran into a buzzsaw getting the Vikes that early in the season.

Packers are definitely a good playoff team, but it will take a lot to handle the Cards. If the Cards can keep momentum going, they are a scary bunch.

[Dish]

For those following the weather, the Bears can not get to Baltimore, and it looks like they might not have a chance to get there until mid Sunday morning, at the absolute earliest.

Originally the Bears had a 10:00 am flight this morning (Saturday) to get to Baltimore, and once the weather looked like trouble, they tried to leave Friday evening at 10:30. Except for long distance cross country flights, it's typical of most NFL teams to leave the morning before a game.

Not clear yet what will happen to this game. NFL already moved it from a noon (CST) kick to 3:15. NBC has an exclusive window for Sunday night, so the game can't get pushed back to Sunday evening. Only other option is Monday night, broadcast on either NFL Network or ESPN local (Chicago/Baltimore).

Maybe it's a blessing the Bears can't get there and avoid the inevitable blowout loss.

In the event the Bears do fly out Sunday morning and play Sunday afternoon, pound the Ravens giving 11...for fun of course.

[NavinRJohnson]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4761127

Nice. So since the calendar turned to December, he has posted QB ratings of 79.2, 73.4, and 73.7, 3 TD's and 5 INT, and his coach tried to bench him last night (I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that he felt the need to do so, or the fact the he wasn't able to do so). If I didn't know better, I would say I was looking at his game log from last season. Good news is they get to play the hapless Bears next week. The bad news is, there won't be any bad teams in the playoffs (except maybe the Packers).

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4761127

Nice. So since the calendar turned to December, he has posted QB ratings of 79.2, 73.4, and 73.7, 3 TD's and 5 INT, and his coach tried to bench him last night (I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that he felt the need to do so, or the fact the he wasn't able to do so). If I didn't know better, I would say I was looking at his game log from last season. Good news is they get to play the hapless Bears next week. The bad news is, there won't be any bad teams in the playoffs (except maybe the Packers).

It's been ugly, that's for sure.

To be honest, I'm more concerned with the running game.

A team with a good running game, good defense and a QB with ratings in the 80's can still be a very good team.

A team with no running game, a worn out defense and a QB with a rating in the 80's will probably lose a lot of games.

IF (big if) the Vikes can run the ball, it will keep their defense off of the field (fresher legs) and save Favre from dropping back 35 times per game.

I don't know what will happen in the next 2 games. I'll say that the Vikes will win, but I might be looking through my purple glasses.

[Moonboots]

It's been ugly, that's for sure.

To be honest, I'm more concerned with the running game.

A team with a good running game, good defense and a QB with ratings in the 80's can still be a very good team.

A team with no running game, a worn out defense and a QB with a rating in the 80's will probably lose a lot of games.

IF (big if) the Vikes can run the ball, it will keep their defense off of the field (fresher legs) and save Favre from dropping back 35 times per game.

I don't know what will happen in the next 2 games. I'll say that the Vikes will win, but I might be looking through my purple glasses.

No idea how the Favre-Childress situation will play out, but I would imagine that once the playoffs roll around the running game will pick up again.  The bigger problem is the loss of EJ Henderson. Teams have been running all over you since that injury.  That may pose a problem.

I'm okay with the Packers losing that game on Sunday.  Not okay - but there's worse things that can happen.  We continue to do one thing that good playoff teams do and that's not turn the ball over.  The penalty situation needs to iron itself out, and the replacement DBs for Al Harris need to step up.  A win against Seattle at home should do a lot towards solidifying a playoff spot for good.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No idea how the Favre-Childress situation will play out, but I would imagine that once the playoffs roll around the running game will pick up again.  The bigger problem is the loss of EJ Henderson. Teams have been running all over you since that injury.  That may pose a problem.

I'm okay with the Packers losing that game on Sunday.  Not okay - but there's worse things that can happen.  We continue to do one thing that good playoff teams do and that's not turn the ball over.  The penalty situation needs to iron itself out, and the replacement DBs for Al Harris need to step up.  A win against Seattle at home should do a lot towards solidifying a playoff spot for good.  

I agree that EJ is a bigger problem than Favre right now.

As far as the Favre-Childress "situation", I think it's much ado about nothing.

Honestly, I want my QB to be competitive and want to stay in the game. If Chilly really wanted him to sit down, he could have made him sit down... but Brett convinced him to let him stay in. I don't think it's a big issue.

Also, I hate the media. If the Vikes had won the game, they would have been touting how tough Brett is for staying in the game and leading the Vikings to a victory.

But, since they lost, some media members do a story about how Brett is running the team.

Blah, blah, blah.

[Hards Alumni]

I agree that EJ is a bigger problem than Favre right now.

As far as the Favre-Childress "situation", I think it's much ado about nothing.

Honestly, I want my QB to be competitive and want to stay in the game. If Chilly really wanted him to sit down, he could have made him sit down... but Brett convinced him to let him stay in. I don't think it's a big issue.

Also, I hate the media. If the Vikes had won the game, they would have been touting how tough Brett is for staying in the game and leading the Vikings to a victory.

But, since they lost, some media members do a story about how Brett is running the team.

Blah, blah, blah.

Welcome to the Brett Favre experience.

[Chili]

I agree that EJ is a bigger problem than Favre right now.

As far as the Favre-Childress "situation", I think it's much ado about nothing.

Honestly, I want my QB to be competitive and want to stay in the game. If Chilly really wanted him to sit down, he could have made him sit down... but Brett convinced him to let him stay in. I don't think it's a big issue.

Also, I hate the media. If the Vikes had won the game, they would have been touting how tough Brett is for staying in the game and leading the Vikings to a victory.

But, since they lost, some media members do a story about how Brett is running the team.

Blah, blah, blah.

Brett is running the team. Chilly has that scared and confused look Sherman had. Get ready for a 5 pick rocketball game soon.

[Hards Alumni]

Brett is running the team. Chilly has that scared and confused look Sherman had. Get ready for a 5 pick rocketball game soon.

Thanks, this cracked me up! 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Welcome to the Brett Favre experience.

Well, as a Viking fan living in Packerland, I have been living it for years.

The common thread in all of this is: Win.

If Favre and the Vikes win, he's a hero and none of this stuff will matter. If they lose, it's all his fault and Childress had no control over the team.

God forbid anybody (especially the media) actually see a middle ground.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Brett is running the team. Chilly has that scared and confused look Sherman had. Get ready for a 5 pick rocketball game soon.

I hope not.

[wadesworld]

Well, as a Viking fan living in Packerland, I have been living it for years.

The common thread in all of this is: Win.

If Favre and the Vikes win, he's a hero and none of this stuff will matter. If they lose, it's all his fault and Childress had no control over the team.

God forbid anybody (especially the media) actually see a middle ground.

It's not that Favre wasn't controlling the team when they were winning, he was just playing well as he controlled the team.  Now he is not playing well, and still is controlling the team.  From day 1 he has had more control over this team and organization than anybody else.  Chilly wants Favre in for all pre-season practices and activities or not in at all.  Favre thus stays retired.  Oh, 2-a-days are done?  Favre now wants to come back and play some ball.  He just loves the game so much.  Oh, by the way, Chilly, the guy you wanted at mini-camp, go pick him up from the airport, be his person chauffeur from our private plane to our facilities.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It's not that Favre wasn't controlling the team when they were winning, he was just playing well as he controlled the team.  Now he is not playing well, and still is controlling the team.  From day 1 he has had more control over this team and organization than anybody else.  Chilly wants Favre in for all pre-season practices and activities or not in at all.  Favre thus stays retired.  Oh, 2-a-days are done?  Favre now wants to come back and play some ball.  He just loves the game so much.  Oh, by the way, Chilly, the guy you wanted at mini-camp, go pick him up from the airport, be his person chauffeur from our private plane to our facilities.

Well, I won't go as far as to say that Favre is controlling the Vikings. I think that is just too simplistic.

That's like saying "Jordan ran the Bulls" because MJ got in guys faces at practice and Phil didn't pull him off. Guess what? Phil didn't pull MJ off because the players have to be accountable to each other, not because he doesn't have "control".

Truth is, veteran players (especially star players) have a huge influence over how the team operates. This isn't high school football. The players have a lot of input in how teams are run because veteran players know football almost as well as the coordinators.

Now, as far as Chilly accepting Favre on the Vikings after his "deadline" or whatever, I think Chilly made a good choice. Certainly Favre brings more drama, but he's also played great so far this season.

Certainly Chilly would have more "control" over Tavaris Jackson, but he would also be "controlling" a 9-7 or 10-6 team. It's not the end of the world to give up some "control" if it makes the company more successful.

With all of this said, if Chilly really wanted to get Brett out of the game, I bet he could have... but Brett pleaded his case and wanted to compete. I don't think that's a huge issue.

[copious1218]

Well, I won't go as far as to say that Favre is controlling the Vikings. I think that is just too simplistic.

That's like saying "Jordan ran the Bulls" because MJ got in guys faces at practice and Phil didn't pull him off. Guess what? Phil didn't pull MJ off because the players have to be accountable to each other, not because he doesn't have "control".

Truth is, veteran players (especially star players) have a huge influence over how the team operates. This isn't high school football. The players have a lot of input in how teams are run because veteran players know football almost as well as the coordinators.

Now, as far as Chilly accepting Favre on the Vikings after his "deadline" or whatever, I think Chilly made a good choice. Certainly Favre brings more drama, but he's also played great so far this season.

Certainly Chilly would have more "control" over Tavaris Jackson, but he would also be "controlling" a 9-7 or 10-6 team. It's not the end of the world to give up some "control" if it makes the company more successful.

With all of this said, if Chilly really wanted to get Brett out of the game, I bet he could have... but Brett pleaded his case and wanted to compete. I don't think that's a huge issue.

Have to agree that it's not that big of an issue.  I'll use the Packers as an example (because this is a NFC North discussion).  If the Packers were winning 7-6 and the coach wanted to pull Rodgers.  First question, as fans would you want Rodgers pulled?  Second question, would you be content with Rodgers kicking back and sitting on the bench with a smile on his face or would you want him to argue with the coach to stay in the game?

I'm personally not a fan of either the Vikings or the Packers, but if the starting quarterback of my team didn't fight to stay in a 7-6 game, I would want a new QB next year that has a competitive bone in his body.

[Chili]

Have to agree that it's not that big of an issue.  I'll use the Packers as an example (because this is a NFC North discussion).  If the Packers were winning 7-6 and the coach wanted to pull Rodgers.  First question, as fans would you want Rodgers pulled?  Second question, would you be content with Rodgers kicking back and sitting on the bench with a smile on his face or would you want him to argue with the coach to stay in the game?

I'm personally not a fan of either the Vikings or the Packers, but if the starting quarterback of my team didn't fight to stay in a 7-6 game, I would want a new QB next year that has a competitive bone in his body.

I would agree if it was just that. But the audibles and other issues - there is more to it. This is Burt being Burt. This is why he hated Ted and Mac - because they wouldn't give into his demands. Chilly is just cumdumpster - his bitch if you will.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I would agree if it was just that. But the audibles and other issues - there is more to it. This is Burt being Burt. This is why he hated Ted and Mac - because they wouldn't give into his demands. Chilly is just cumdumpster - his bitch if you will.

Riiiiight.

It's that simple.

McCarthy wouldn't give into Brett.

Chilly lets Brett do whatever he wants.

Brett Favre is the Owner of the Minnesota Vikings.

That God it's not more complicated than that.  

[Chili]

Riiiiight.

It's that simple.

McCarthy wouldn't give into Brett.

Chilly lets Brett do whatever he wants.

Brett Favre is the Owner of the Minnesota Vikings.

That God it's not more complicated than that.  

It pretty much is. Holmgren had him on shorter leash. Rhodes was an idiot. Sherman let Brett do what Brett wanted. Mac would have none of it. It's not hard to figure out if you talk to a few people or read a few articles.

Chilly looks the exact same way. Hey, you want to deny what everyone else see's be my guest.

[LON]

It pretty much is. Holmgren had him on shorter leash. Rhodes was an idiot. Sherman let Brett do what Brett wanted. Mac would have none of it. It's not hard to figure out if you talk to a few people or read a few articles.

Chilly looks the exact same way. Hey, you want to deny what everyone else see's be my guest.

I saw that in the first Vikings vs. Packers game, up 30-20, killing clock...run play called, he audibled into a deep pass and stopped the clock.  That's not a guy that is just trying to win.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It pretty much is. Holmgren had him on shorter leash. Rhodes was an idiot. Sherman let Brett do what Brett wanted. Mac would have none of it. It's not hard to figure out if you talk to a few people or read a few articles.

Chilly looks the exact same way. Hey, you want to deny what everyone else see's be my guest.

To be fair, there is a lot of truth to what you are saying. I can't deny that.

I'm simply saying that life, and specifically personal relationships, are rarely able to be explained in such neat little boxes and compartments as "Sherman let Brett do what Brett wanted. Mac would have none of it." and/or "Brett is running the team."

It's not this simple. It CAN'T be this simple.