NFC North Intelligent, Civilized Discussion 09/10 season

[IAmMarquette]

Well, you could pin it on their loss to the Bucs (which was unspeakably awful), or you could pin it on their failure to show up for 5 of 8 quarters against the team that currently leads their division.

There were some encouraging signs from the Pack today. The defense was excellent. Special teams were much improved. The 5 sacks they got today were almost half of their season total coming into this game.

Unfortunately, the two problems that have plagued the Packers the entire season once again reared their ugly heads:

1. They still can't protect Rodgers. There was one sack where the Packers kept an extra guy (maybe even 2) in to block, but Rodgers was still sacked. To add insult to injury, the Packer responsible for the sack was called for holding on the play.

2. TWELVE penalties for 100 yards. No surprise that the Packers are the most penalized team in the NFL, and that the Cowboys aren't far behind.

I've given up hope of a solution for either one, which means that in order to win, the Packers have to be nearly perfect in every other aspect of the game. They managed to do that today, but I don't see it happening often enough over the next seven games to push them to the playoffs.

[GGGG]

Agreed IAm...and those two problems are going to prevent the Packers from going very far.

But that was a *fun* game to watch tonight!

[Moonboots]

The sad part is, in my opinion, Aaron has the arm to MAKE the throw.  He just needs to be comfortable with it. I guess it's the next step in the progression of a 2nd year starting QB.

For the first time yesterday, I saw Rodgers make timing throws under pressure in big situations. Two third and longs on the 15 play drive, one to Driver, and one to Lee.  They were far and away his best throws of the evening.  I'm not even sure how he SAW the one to Lee develop.  Now he just needs to put together drives like that consistently. 15 plays, 80 yards, 7 minutes and some change.  Awesome.  Now do good Packers or bad Packers show up next week?

[NavinRJohnson]

I must say I was very impressed with the Packers effort yesterday, though I remain pessimistic for the rest of the year. They could have easily rolled over, and I expected as much, but they really came out ready to play. As someone else pointed out, the O-line is still a major problem, and the penalties were as bad as ever.

I expect they will probably win the next couple games, and keep themselves in position. After that, they will probably have some problems.

[LON]

I didn't read/hear post game comments from MM but I would guess he mentioned lane integrity and pad level at least once.  And that he didn't get anyone fired.

[Jay Bee]

<throw up> Childress extended to 2013.

ESPN reporting that Vikings coach Brad Childress has agreed to a contract extension that will keep him with the team through the 2013 season.

In other Vikings news, the Wilf's spazzed out at the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission this week... it's getting nasty, quickly. 

Both matters are not very pleasing to me, but oh well.. the season is going very well. 

[Hards Alumni]

<throw up> Childress extended to 2013.

ESPN reporting that Vikings coach Brad Childress has agreed to a contract extension that will keep him with the team through the 2013 season.

In other Vikings news, the Wilf's spazzed out at the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission this week... it's getting nasty, quickly. 

Both matters are not very pleasing to me, but oh well.. the season is going very well. 

ouch, sorry dude.  Ziggy be crazy.

[MU B2002]

Jay Bee,
You accept paypal?  Or would you prefer a gift of lynchburg, TN's finest export.
Barring an epic collapse, Vikes seem to have the north locked up.

[IAmMarquette]

Jay Bee,
You accept paypal?  Or would you prefer a gift of lynchburg, TN's finest export.
Barring an epic collapse, Vikes seem to have the north locked up.

If you're sending out bottles of JD, sign me up!

[MU B2002]

Thankfully I only made one bet regarding the NFC north.  Maybe next year.

[Jay Bee]

Jay Bee,
You accept paypal?  Or would you prefer a gift of lynchburg, TN's finest export.
Barring an epic collapse, Vikes seem to have the north locked up.

  Yes - paypal works, but so would some booze.  Your call - I'll wait to hear from you, then hit you with my paypal or home address.

  $4 to $5 million per year for Br0ad Childress is the rumor.  Ugh.  The guy that should be extended in Minnesota sports is Mr. Mauer. 

[wadesworld]

  $4 to $5 million per year for Br0ad Childress is the rumor.  Ugh.  The guy that should be extended in Minnesota sports is Mr. Mauer.

Truer words have never been spoken

[muwarrior87]

Coaches are always going to get too much heat and too much credit.

Perfect example, Childress just received a contract extension because his team is doing well now.  That may look like a real dumb decision if Favre does what he's done the past few years and tails off dramatically at the end of the season or if they lose at home in the playoffs like they did last year.

[RawdogDX]

Perfect example, Childress just received a contract extension because his team is doing well now.  That may look like a real dumb decision if Favre does what he's done the past few years and tails off dramatically at the end of the season or if they lose at home in the playoffs like they did last year.

Has he won a single playoff game?  This was a moronic decision.  If he couldn't convince farve to come out of retirement he very well could be getting fired at the end of the season.  Why give him 3 years because he could beg a guy out of retirement.

[Mayor McCheese]

Has he won a single playoff game?  This was a moronic decision.  If he couldn't convince farve to come out of retirement he very well could be getting fired at the end of the season.  Why give him 3 years because he could beg a guy out of retirement.

Because that begging gave Minnesota one of their best chances to win their FIRST super bowl.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it will happen, but that alone might get you a contract extension.

In 2 years, the Vikings will hate Childress

[MU B2002]

Because that begging gave Minnesota one of their best chances to win their FIRST super bowl.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it will happen, but that alone might get you a contract extension.

In 2 years, the Vikings will hate Childress

I thought they already did.  I know their fans do. (from what it seems)

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I was looking at some stats this morning to see if the Vikes were really as good as their record indicates.

I'm nervous that they aren't, and some of the stats validate that.

The very interesting thing is that GB is almost the same, and in some cases better than MN in a lot of areas.

Total Offense: MN 8 GB 7
Total Defense: MN 13  GB 3

Now, these numbers are really based upon yards not points, so I don't think it's a perfect measure, but these numbers favor GB.

The other thing to consider is that the Vikes have had a lot of big leads in the 4th quarter, which would lead to more conservative play calling with some back-up players and probably giving up some additional yards on defense as opposing teams continue to pass the ball to get back in the game (also increased opportunities for sacks).

Now, the biggest difference in number occurs in special teams:
Kick off Coverage: MN 8 GB 28
Kick off Returns:    MN 3 GB 22

MN has a clear advantage in this area with some dangerous players that can hit a homerun, but they (harvin) also give MN a shorter field to work with, thus putting more pressure on the opponent.

The one curious thing I found was the Giveaway/takeaway stat:
GB #1 with +13
MN is #4, but is only +4

The Packers have a CLEAR advantage in this area, and most coaches and football stats analysts say that turnovers determine a game.

What does all of this mean?

Well, given these numbers, I think the Vikes might be a little overrated and the Packers might be underrated. I still envision the Packers going to the playoffs, and as a MN fan, I would be a little nervous to give ARodg another shot at the Vikings secondary.

I know a few weeks ago people were calling for Thompson and McCarthy's head, but when looking at the numbers, they are a good (and young) team. They have some pretty big holes (o-line, special teams), but overall the team is solid in most areas. If you put Percy Harvin and Steve Hutchinson on the Packers, they would make a HUGE difference. The Packers are still a good team this year, but if they can make the right moves in the off season, they really might only be 2 or 3 players away from being elite.

[GOMU1104]

2002mualum...stop trying to hedge your bets. All season, you have been setting yourself up to defend your Vikes if they dont at least go to the Super Bowl.  "There not that good, etc etc etc"

As I have said since week 1...Anything less than going to the Super Bowl, should be considered a disappointment.  They are one of the top two teams in the NFC.

Quit trying to convince people to feel sorry for you.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

2002mualum...stop trying to hedge your bets. All season, you have been setting yourself up to defend your Vikes if they dont at least go to the Super Bowl.  "There not that good, etc etc etc"

As I have said since week 1...Anything less than going to the Super Bowl, should be considered a disappointment.  They are one of the top two teams in the NFC.

Quit trying to convince people to feel sorry for you.

You're right.

I'll tell ESPN to quit posting the actual stats and to make the Vikes #1 in every category.

MIAMI OR BUST!

[MU B2002]

2002's stat analysis...

Wins.  That is the stat that matters.  The only people that worry about the other stats are those that lose.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Wins.  That is the stat that matters.  The only people that worry about the other stats are those that lose.

And people that bet on games.

[GOMU1104]

You're right.

I'll tell ESPN to quit posting the actual stats and to make the Vikes #1 in every category.

MIAMI OR BUST!

The typical useless response from you...I come to expect nothing else.

Frankly, I would rather have JayBoy spit his hot fire on this thread, than constantly  have you play the "woe is us" card.

[Hards Alumni]

I agree... I know you really only do it because you hate to be wrong more than anything.

This way you allow yourself to say, "I said I didn't think they were that good"

At least JayBee does take a stand, and isn't so wishy washy.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The typical useless response from you...I come to expect nothing else.

Frankly, I would rather have JayBoy spit his hot fire on this thread, than constantly  have you play the "woe is us" card.

What do you find so objectionable about my first post comparing stats?

I know you think this is some grand set-up, but I'm just comparing the 2 teams.

I would make the comparison between the Vikes and the Saints, but I thought the Packers were a more interesting subject seen as this thread is about the NFC North.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I agree... I know you really only do it because you hate to be wrong more than anything.

This way you allow yourself to say, "I said I didn't think they were that good"

At least JayBee does take a stand, and isn't so wishy washy.

The Vikings are a good team.

They are better than the Packers.

I said they would be better than the Packers. I was right.

I didn't think the Vikings would be this good.

I'm skeptical if they can go "all the way" because they are not dominating as much as their record indicates.


Do you want me to be more "controversial"?