NFC North Intelligent, Civilized Discussion 09/10 season

[NavinRJohnson]

Forget Favre and Rodgers...Vikings D-line, good. Packers O-line, not good. Game over (and the Packers probably looking for a new coach this off season).

[wadesworld]

(and the Packers probably looking for a new coach this off season).

I hope to God they are.  McCarthy is one of the worst play-callers I've ever seen

[NavinRJohnson]

I hope to God they are.  McCarthy is one of the worst play-callers I've ever seen

Not even sure they should wait for the off season, this team plays like crap! Really a weak effort in a game they had to have (For the division, the Favre crap means nothing.).

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Turnovers are killing the Vikes right now (10 pts).

The clock can't run fast enough.

[NavinRJohnson]

Why in the hell do you try a 51 yd FG? Just go for it on 4th. McCarthy's gotta go, and I would do it tomorrow. Vikings are obviously a better team, but just a terrible job...got beat in all facets. If not for a couple turnovers, they got pounded. Jared Allen unblocked?!?!?!

[ATWizJr]

Could we protect Rodgers?  How about a couple of screens?  Capers....overrated. Adjustments way too late.

[Dish]

I thought the Pack showed a lot of heart, they could have been blown out, they got some turnovers and made this a good game. 51 yard FG decision didn't make sense, and the Pack may have been able to overturn that Dugan (Duggan?) TD late, can't remember if it was timeouts or challenges they were out of.

Pack still very much in the playoff race (and I'm a Bears fan saying this). Bears had perhaps the ugliest/boringest 30-6 win in NFL history today.

[NavinRJohnson]

Pack still very much in the playoff race (and I'm a Bears fan saying this). Bears had perhaps the ugliest/boringest 30-6 win in NFL history today.

I agree they still have a decent shot at the playoffs, but they just are not a good team.

I felt the same way (not) watching the Packers play the Lions and the Browns...those games should not be allowed on television. Absolutely terrible teams.

[muarmy81]

I thought the Pack showed a lot of heart, they could have been blown out, they got some turnovers and made this a good game. 51 yard FG decision didn't make sense, and the Pack may have been able to overturn that Dugan (Duggan?) TD late, can't remember if it was timeouts or challenges they were out of.

Pack still very much in the playoff race (and I'm a Bears fan saying this). Bears had perhaps the ugliest/boringest 30-6 win in NFL history today.

As a bears fan I must concur.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Ok, first, I have to admit that I was wrong. I thought the Vikings would drop this game and pee down there leg.

I didn't think the Vikes could pull it off. They are a good team, but the pass defense (especially without Winfield) is brutal.

Rodgers once again sliced and diced them when he had time, which is concerning if the Vikes really have playoff aspirations.

Now, I also have to say that this is the exact type of game that Favre was signed for. MN jumps out to a lead, and then the home team gets all of the momentum and mounts a great comeback.

#4 certainly isn't what he used to be, but he has a steady hand and did a very nice job of capitalizing on Harvin's return(s) and AP's long screen pass. I don't think Jackson would have been able to play that well in those circumstances. (in the second half with the Packers breathing down the Vikings neck)

Also, from the look at the Vikes locker room after the game, it appears like they "like" Brett. But, when you win, it covers up any of the "schisms" that may have developed... so I still think that Brett is a diva with a hug ego, but he's a WINNING diva, so it all gets covered up in high fives and hugs.

[Mayor McCheese]

Biggest surprise of the year is Percy Harvin, not just in the NFL North, but in the whole league (I guess Cedric Benson could have a good argument).  Percy Harvin just tore the Packers yesterday, returning and receiving. 

Game. Set. Match Favre

[muarmy81]

Ok, first, I have to admit that I was wrong. I thought the Vikings would drop this game and pee down there leg.

I didn't think the Vikes could pull it off. They are a good team, but the pass defense (especially without Winfield) is brutal.

Rodgers once again sliced and diced them when he had time, which is concerning if the Vikes really have playoff aspirations.

Now, I also have to say that this is the exact type of game that Favre was signed for. MN jumps out to a lead, and then the home team gets all of the momentum and mounts a great comeback.

#4 certainly isn't what he used to be, but he has a steady hand and did a very nice job of capitalizing on Harvin's return(s) and AP's long screen pass. I don't think Jackson would have been able to play that well in those circumstances. (in the second half with the Packers breathing down the Vikings neck)

Also, from the look at the Vikes locker room after the game, it appears like they "like" Brett. But, when you win, it covers up any of the "schisms" that may have developed... so I still think that Brett is a diva with a hug ego, but he's a WINNING diva, so it all gets covered up in high fives and hugs.

I got to disagree.  2002, you must be a packers fan.  As a Bears fan, i have to give MN their due.  Outside of NO, I don't see too many other teams in the NFC that you could honestly consider better than MN.  Even with Winfield out I think their pass rush helps cover up an inadequate secondary.  With regards to Favre...he may not move like Aaron Rodgers but his arm strength looks just as strong as it did years ago.  Pending any serious injuries, ie like a biceps tendon tear, he seems more than capable of keeping MN in games...hopefully, he lays an egg against Chicago but i don't see that happening.

[Hards Alumni]

I got to disagree.  2002, you must be a packers fan.  As a Bears fan, i have to give MN their due.  Outside of NO, I don't see too many other teams in the NFC that you could honestly consider better than MN.  Even with Winfield out I think their pass rush helps cover up an inadequate secondary.  With regards to Favre...he may not move like Aaron Rodgers but his arm strength looks just as strong as it did years ago.  Pending any serious injuries, ie like a biceps tendon tear, he seems more than capable of keeping MN in games...hopefully, he lays an egg against Chicago but i don't see that happening.

actually, he is a Vikings fan.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I got to disagree.  2002, you must be a packers fan.  As a Bears fan, i have to give MN their due.  Outside of NO, I don't see too many other teams in the NFC that you could honestly consider better than MN.  Even with Winfield out I think their pass rush helps cover up an inadequate secondary.  With regards to Favre...he may not move like Aaron Rodgers but his arm strength looks just as strong as it did years ago.  Pending any serious injuries, ie like a biceps tendon tear, he seems more than capable of keeping MN in games...hopefully, he lays an egg against Chicago but i don't see that happening.

Well, A Rodg just put a 110 and a 108 QB rating on the Vikes in 2 games.

The Vikes are good, but as a Vikings fan, I'd be very nervous to play against the saints, colts, patriots and I wouldn't count out the Cardinals or the Falcons.

Teams can throw the ball on the Vikings. Part of that is by design, as stopping the run is the priority, (followed by the pass rush); but the overall pass defense isn't great. It's pretty good, but not great.

If an opposing team can go max protect, they will be able to move the ball up and down the field against the Vikings. Rodgers attempted 41 passes and none of them were close to being picked. Credit to ARodge, but it also makes me nervous that he could drop back that many times without the Vikings getting their hands on one. (they only tipped a few)

As a fan, I'm certainly happy with the team's performance, but I'm still cautious due to the pass defense.


EDIT: Also, Flaco threw the ball 40+ times with no picks and had a rating above 105. Big Ben only had an 87 rating, but again, no INTs.

[GGGG]

Don't count out the Eagles too.  They beat the Vikings last year in Minnesota and could do it again.

Favre has been huge for the Vikings obviously, but if you switch quarterbacks, the result is the same.  I think the least of Green Bay's problems are at the QB position.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Don't count out the Eagles too.  They beat the Vikings last year in Minnesota and could do it again.

Favre has been huge for the Vikings obviously, but if you switch quarterbacks, the result is the same.  I think the least of Green Bay's problems are at the QB position.

Good point about McNabb.

As far as if the QBs were swapped, you're right. ARodge didn't lost that game for the Pack. Rodgers is good. Still a little green (needs to get rid of the ball!), but he's a very good player.


With this said, as each week goes by, I think it becomes more and more obvious that Brett can still play, and he can even play a smarter and less risky style that many people said he couldn't.

It's only week 8, so we'll see what happens in the second half. Maybe he'll start chucking it all over the field... who knows.

[Hards Alumni]

Good point about McNabb.

As far as if the QBs were swapped, you're right. ARodge didn't lost that game for the Pack. Rodgers is good. Still a little green (needs to get rid of the ball!), but he's a very good player.


With this said, as each week goes by, I think it becomes more and more obvious that Brett can still play, and he can even play a smarter and less risky style that many people said he couldn't.

It's only week 8, so we'll see what happens in the second half. Maybe he'll start chucking it all over the field... who knows.

I'd agree... the Packer's problem lies completely in the coaching department.  So many errors, poor calls, and all around inconsistancy.  No one but the coaches to blame here.

[NavinRJohnson]

No one but the coaches to blame here.

I would add Ted Thompson's inability to draft O-linemen, but otherwise I agree. I have lost all faith in McCarthy.

[muarmy81]

I stand corrected.  My apologies, 2002.

[LON]

I would add Ted Thompson's inability to draft O-linemen, but otherwise I agree. I have lost all faith in McCarthy.

+1

You can only use the goodwill built up on the Woodson signing for so much...

[RawdogDX]

I think we are burying the lead.  And that is: How much Brett Favre loves the game of football.  You can see the joy on his face.  He's like a kid out there.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I stand corrected.  My apologies, 2002.

Ha. No apology needed. I wasn't offended, and I realize how my post came across.

I'm just trying to be honest with my own favorite team.

I'm excited about their performance so far (who wouldn't be excited about 7-1), but before I'm not going to puff my chest out too much after seeing the way the pass defense has played.

The Vikes are very good, but to be an elite team, they have to play better defense and ultimately intercept more passes. They only have 6 picks this season, which is a little surprising considering how many leads they have had and how many passing attempts they have gone against.

For comparison, Buffalo is top (or bottom I suppose) in the league with 279 passing attempts against. The Vikes are second with 276.

Buffalo however has 15 picks while the Vikes only have 6.

Now, for the record, Buffalo isn't a good team, so maybe this stat is worthless... but nevertheless, the INT rate is concerning if the Vikes are going to be an elite team.

It's not enough to sack a QB a few times (although that helps), but when an opposing throws it 35+ times, they have to pick off at least one of those (especially with the pressure the D-line is creating).

[GGGG]

+1

You can only use the goodwill built up on the Woodson signing for so much...

Thompson can draft, but he obviously missed the part where his mentor also had the ability to sign some pretty key free agents.  In '96, the Packers started Andre Rison, Bruce Wilkerson, Eugene Robinson, Santana Dotson and Reggie White to name a few.  They also had Kieth Jackson coming off the bench.  That is at least three all-Pros right there.

Thompson has signed Woodson...late because no one else really wanted him.

I look at Jarred Allen - there is no reason why Green Bay couldn't have made some similar trade during the 2008 draft.  But instead they traded down to get Jordy Nelson (who's a nice player) and a couple of other picks that are also probably nice players.  But there isn't a true impact player among them.

[LON]

I think we are burying the lead.  And that is: How much Brett Favre loves the game of football.  You can see the joy on his face.  He's like a kid out there.

He's farting in the huddle...look at that smile!

[wadesworld]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said on here.  Especially about losing all faith in McCarthy.  I also agree with the Eagles.  I would put the top 3 teams in the NFC as 1. Saints 2. Vikings and 3. Eagles.  I will say, though, that I think the Eagles have a higher ceiling than the Vikings.  I think the Vikings are a more consistent football team, but the when the Eagles are hot they are HOT.

Congratulations Jayj, how do you want your money?  The Vikings are easily the best team the Packers have seen this year, and Chilli has far outcoached McCarthy in both games, which is quite sad.  Your boys are looking good.  Favre's playing smarter than he ever has, and All Day AP is a man among boys.  And life is just too easy for Jerad Allen when he plays the Packers.

I still think, with the way their schedule shapes up, that the Packers make the playoffs, and possibly win a Wild Card round game.  I no longer see them in an NFC Championship game, though.

Rodgers is a hell of a quarterback, but he's still in his second year as a starter and makes his mistakes (most glaringly, taking too many sacks and always looking for the home run play rather than taking what the defense is giving him and making the drop off throw).