NFC North Intelligent, Civilized Discussion 09/10 season

[GGGG]

One other thing...

My wife is a very sweet woman, but during Packer games, she is basically a running stream of insults ("Johnny Jolly you pretty boy!!!") and physical threats against the other team ("C'mon...break Favre's legs!!!")  After 20 years of marriage, it has become part of the Sunday landscape in our household.

Yesterday she got off a good one on Brad Childress:  "If Papa Smurf were a pedophile, that's what he'd look like."

I'm still laughing about that one today.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I just remembered something, I also have to admit that I was wrong about the Packer reception of Favre and his family.

I expected much worse than the booing and such. I was expecting some sort of serious prank/stunt/criminal act. (ie calls to his family, vandalism, etc.)

I was wrong. Packer fans were pretty good about everything.

I know it doesn't make the loss any easier, but at least no knucklehead (it one takes 1) did something really stupid.

[Hards Alumni]

I just remembered something, I also have to admit that I was wrong about the Packer reception of Favre and his family.

I expected much worse than the booing and such. I was expecting some sort of serious prank/stunt/criminal act. (ie calls to his family, vandalism, etc.)

I was wrong. Packer fans were pretty good about everything.

I know it doesn't make the loss any easier, but at least no knucklehead (it one takes 1) did something really stupid.

Packer fans are notoriously classy comparied to most every other rabid fan base.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Packer fans are notoriously classy comparied to most every other rabid fan base.

Well, as I said in the other thread, I've run into my share of less than classy packer fans, and I was betting that something weird would happen when Favre came to town.

I'm happy to admit that I was wrong and it appears that there were no major incidents.

[Moonboots]

Well, as I said in the other thread, I've run into my share of less than classy packer fans, and I was betting that something weird would happen when Favre came to town.

I'm happy to admit that I was wrong and it appears that there were no major incidents.

I'm glad nothing happened as well.  When it comes down to it, this town is all about football, and helping get this team a win. That meant making life as hard as possible for Favre... on the field.  I don't think many people (or hopefully any at all) harbored intentions of doing something stupid to Favre.

It would have been interesting to be at Lambeau on Sunday.  It sounds like the place was really rocking, especially during the frantic comeback and three-and-out that gave the Packers a chance to actually take the lead.  I wonder how many Vikings fans actually got their hands on tickets.

[GOMU1104]

It would have been interesting to be at Lambeau on Sunday.  It sounds like the place was really rocking, especially during the frantic comeback and three-and-out that gave the Packers a chance to actually take the lead.  I wonder how many Vikings fans actually got their hands on tickets.

Tough game, MIN is a very good team. The focus for GB now becomes the Wild Card...

I was in Lambeau on Sunday. The atmosphere was great, until Jonny Jollly decided a head butt would be a smart thing to do...That personal foul took alot of the juice out of the team/fans. 

Things did pick up in the 3rd quarter, when GB made the run...but again, when AD had the big gain on the screen pass, it sucked the life out of the GB fans.

Alot of Vikings fans there...

[NavinRJohnson]

That meant making life as hard as possible for Favre... on the field. 

If only the Packer defense had shared that goal.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm glad nothing happened as well.  When it comes down to it, this town is all about football, and helping get this team a win. That meant making life as hard as possible for Favre... on the field.  I don't think many people (or hopefully any at all) harbored intentions of doing something stupid to Favre.

I agree with you, but it only takes one drunk wingnut to ruin it for everybody (regardless of the team), and that's what I was afraid of.

I know most fans are reasonable, but I imagined some fool messing with deanna's hotel room or somebody making threatening phone calls, etc.

I'm not saying this because I think poorly of GB fans, I'm saying this because I think drunk, foolish people take things way too far.

Anyways, credit to the GB fans and the local authorities for making everything go smoothly.

[LON]

I'm glad nothing happened as well.  When it comes down to it, this town is all about football, and helping get this team a win. That meant making life as hard as possible for Favre... on the field.  I don't think many people (or hopefully any at all) harbored intentions of doing something stupid to Favre.

It would have been interesting to be at Lambeau on Sunday.  It sounds like the place was really rocking, especially during the frantic comeback and three-and-out that gave the Packers a chance to actually take the lead.  I wonder how many Vikings fans actually got their hands on tickets.

The boos were the loudest in the first half, after that it was pretty much yelling as loud as you could to do anything to get them out of rhythm...fun game to be at, no doubt, just wish the result was better.

[LON]

Tough game, MIN is a very good team. The focus for GB now becomes the Wild Card...

I was in Lambeau on Sunday. The atmosphere was great, until Jonny Jollly decided a head butt would be a smart thing to do...That personal foul took alot of the juice out of the team/fans. 

Things did pick up in the 3rd quarter, when GB made the run...but again, when AD had the big gain on the screen pass, it sucked the life out of the GB fans.

Alot of Vikings fans there...

My thought was this, out of all the purple that was there (and there was quite a bit), how many of them were wearing green last year?  My guess is, quite a bit.

[Moonboots]

So the focus for GB switches to the wild card.  Hopefully I'm not too premature in saying that we should get victories against the Bucs and the Lions.  That gives us six wins, and leaves us with: Dallas, Baltimore, @ Pittsburgh, San Francisco, @ Chicago, @ Arizona.

My feelings are that the Packers need four of those six to make the playoffs.  What do you say, Packer fans (and others in the Intelligent, Civilized Discussion thread)?

Another interesting thing to note... should this team make it to the playoffs, their chances for success come almost fully down to protecting Aaron Rodgers.

Given the importance of this: http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2623_The_mighty_CHFF_interception_ladder.html

...our QB should be built for extended playoff success.  He just doesn't commit turnovers.  Now everyone else needs to pick up the slack.

[LON]

...our QB should be built for extended playoff success.  He just doesn't commit turnovers.  Now everyone else needs to pick up the slack.

If he's still alive at the end of the season...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So the focus for GB switches to the wild card.  Hopefully I'm not too premature in saying that we should get victories against the Bucs and the Lions.  That gives us six wins, and leaves us with: Dallas, Baltimore, @ Pittsburgh, San Francisco, @ Chicago, @ Arizona.

My feelings are that the Packers need four of those six to make the playoffs.  What do you say, Packer fans (and others in the Intelligent, Civilized Discussion thread)?

Another interesting thing to note... should this team make it to the playoffs, their chances for success come almost fully down to protecting Aaron Rodgers.

Given the importance of this: http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2623_The_mighty_CHFF_interception_ladder.html

...our QB should be built for extended playoff success.  He just doesn't commit turnovers.  Now everyone else needs to pick up the slack.

Packers are still talented, and are still very tough at home.

The offensive line is obviously the biggest concern. Not only because it makes the offense ineffective, but they are going to get Rodgers killed. 1 bad hit and the season is effectively over for the Packers.

The interesting thing is that this has been a problem all year, and the coaches can't seem to gameplan around it. I'm not a NFL coordinator, but I do know there are ways to slow down a great pass rush (screen pass, draw play, etc.).

Maybe they just can't execute those type of plays.

Lastly, it seems like Grant gets better as the year goes on, so maybe he'll get hot in the second 1/2 of the season.

It's not ridiculous to think that the Packers can go 6-3 in the second 1/2.

I think the Vikes will drop at game (or 2) that they shouldn't, so they will probably be 12-4.

But, a major injury to either team would certainly change everything.

[Hards Alumni]

another major problem (that the JS finally pointed out today) is that the Packers are extremely slow out of the gate.  They rarely are the first to score, and have to play from behind all game. 

[Moonboots]

Packers are still talented, and are still very tough at home.

The offensive line is obviously the biggest concern. Not only because it makes the offense ineffective, but they are going to get Rodgers killed. 1 bad hit and the season is effectively over for the Packers.

The interesting thing is that this has been a problem all year, and the coaches can't seem to gameplan around it. I'm not a NFL coordinator, but I do know there are ways to slow down a great pass rush (screen pass, draw play, etc.).

Maybe they just can't execute those type of plays.

Lastly, it seems like Grant gets better as the year goes on, so maybe he'll get hot in the second 1/2 of the season.

It's not ridiculous to think that the Packers can go 6-3 in the second 1/2.

I think the Vikes will drop at game (or 2) that they shouldn't, so they will probably be 12-4.

But, a major injury to either team would certainly change everything.

I should say that I was incorrect - sort of - with my assessment of our schedule.  We get Seattle at home in there too. I'll throw that in as a "gimme", though it'll be a step harder than the Bucs and Lions will.  So thats SEVEN wins.  We'll need three of those six listed to get to 10, and a probable wild card.


Mualum, I agree with just about everything in your post. Especially the part about the ways to slow down a great pass rush (which, in our case, is EVERY pass rush we face).  As one who probably watches too much Packer football, let me give my opinion.  The supposed draw of going to zone blocking was that it required smaller, quicker, more agile linemen. I didn't like the sound of that when we made the switch, given that we play on a natural surface in a poor weather climate for much of the season, but the change was made. 

So we don't have big, strong enough guys to buckle down and hold their ground when good defensive lines (like Minnesota) have the ability to let the dogs go, so to speak, in the pass rush.  That's why getting a lead is incredibly important.  They move okay laterally, but when they have to backpedal against a team that knows we're passing every down, they're going to get run over. 

The worst part about it is, four of our five lineman are flat out AWFUL in space.  For anyone who has tried to watch us run a screen since 2006, they see that Tauscher and Clifton can no longer move in space because age is catching up to them, and any combination of Spitz, Wells, and Sitton at center and right guard just don't have the ability to find blockers on a screen pass or any sort of pulling running play.  Spitz is particularly awful.  For visual evidence, see the '07 NFC Championship where a late first half screen to Brandon Jackson SHOULD HAVE gone for a touchdown, with only Antonio Pierce and no less than three Green Bay blockers stood between him and the end zone.  Pierce knifed in and made the play for a loss of five without getting touched.  The same scenario became commonplace in the year and a half of football we've seen since.  If we were going to make a trade off for size and strength, they better damn well be mobile and smart, and they are neither of those things.

Luckily, Colledge seems to have gotten it.  Of the five starting linemen right now, I think he's the only one that should remain a starter on this team when Clifton and Tauscher finally meet their end. 

One high draft pick on a tackle and some FA money on a quality starting guard would be a great first step to moving this line in the right direction in as little as one season.  Guys like Barbre, Giacomini, Wells and Spitz just aren't the long term answers, at least not if we want anything that resembles an elite offense.

[Hards Alumni]

completely agree.

[mu_hilltopper]

Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams.   Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.

This year, GB is not a contender.  Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams. 

I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.

[MU B2002]

Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams.   Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.

This year, GB is not a contender.  Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams. 

I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.

Many would have said that Arizona last year was fodder for the contenders, and they were one incorrect TD call away from a Superbowl victory.  Weak teams try to get there because you never know what can happen.

[GGGG]

Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams.   Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.

This year, GB is not a contender.  Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams. 

I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.

Wild Card teams have gotten hot and made deep playoff runs many times.  Look at the Giants two years ago...they won three road games to get to the SB.  This isn't like the NBA where all the draft talent is at the top and mediocre teams never get better.  Making the playoffs and having a young team experience that atmosphere is important.  And who knows what can happen when you get there.

[jmayer1]

Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams.   Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.

This year, GB is not a contender.  Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams. 

I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.

So what you're saying is that all but 4 or 5 teams this year should just quit trying so hard and start maneuvering for a better draft position?  This seems a little asinine in my opinion.

Teams get hot, you never know what can happen in the playoffs.  As others have pointed out, all you need to look at is recent history. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Many would have said that Arizona last year was fodder for the contenders, and they were one incorrect TD call away from a Superbowl victory.  Weak teams try to get there because you never know what can happen.

+1,

Also, a healthy wildcard team vs. an injured division champ would certainly be a good game.

Injuries are a huge factor. 

[IAmMarquette]

Never understood the quest for a playoff spot for weak teams.   Playoff teams break into two groups .. contenders, and fodder for the contenders.

This year, GB is not a contender.  Best it can (realistically) hope for is an away playoff wildcard game and eventual loss to all the better teams. 

I don't feel like the NFL playoffs are like the NCAAs, where you're 19 years old and just happy to be dancing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

[ATWizJr]

The return of Tauscher and Clifton may have an influence.  I hope we make the playoffs with those guys healthy and play the Vikes again...anywhere.

[GGGG]

The return of Tauscher and Clifton may have an influence.  I hope we make the playoffs with those guys healthy and play the Vikes again...anywhere.

This isn't five years ago...neither are what they once were.

[Hards Alumni]

This isn't five years ago...neither are what they once were.

Neither are TJ Lang (a rookie), or Allen Barbre (crappy) either, so its an upgrade.