NFC North Intelligent, Civilized Discussion 09/10 season

[LON]

Sssshhh   I'm trying to jinx them.


And that to this day is still one of my favorite youtube videos.

If you loved that one, just google Coach Hawkins from Colorado University..."THIS IS DIVISION 1 FOOTBALL!!  GO PLAY INTRAMURALS, BROTHER!"

[dsfire]

But, we're almost to week 9, when his arm will fall off and he'll blow the season for us like he did for the Jets.

I find it funny that "his arm will fall off" didn't rate teal.

[GOMU1104]

Packers cruise in Cleveland.  Took care of business the way they are supposed to.

Luck ran out for the Vikings this week.

Sunday should be very interesting.


P.S...Bears getting boatraced in Cincy.

[spiral97]

Luck ran out for the Vikings this week.

I'm a diehard packer fan but I don't think any of the Viking's success has relied on luck unfortunately.

I'm happy to see they lost and happier that they got a taste of the double-edged sword that Favre is but they are a very talented bunch.  Next weeks game will hopefully be a full 60 minute effort (if it isn't then I'm betting it is more likely because the Pack isn't keeping up rather than the other way around).  Of course, I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. 

[GOMU1104]

I'm a diehard packer fan but I don't think any of the Viking's success has relied on luck unfortunately.

Um...the SF and BAL games?

[wadesworld]

Um...the SF and BAL games?

Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about.  I realize they're very talented, but they have also been very lucky in 2 of their wins.  Favre did it starting about when we thought he would.  Let's see if he keeps it up.

On another note, I'm really happy the Bears traded a top 5 QB this year plus a 1st and 2nd round draft pick for the worst QB in the NFL

[spartan3186]

Cutler may be terrible at times, but he is no where near the worst QB in a league with Jemarcus Russell, Sean Hill, Derek Anderson, Josh Johnson and Jake Delhomme.

This game he looks worse than he really has been due to a total lack of protection and a one dimensional offense due to terrible pass coverage.

[spiral97]

Um...the SF and BAL games?

I'd argue that SF and BAL had luck on their side that enabled them to challenge Minnesota as well as they did rather than Minnesota being lucky and surmounting the odds against them to win those games.

Put it this way, if SF and Minnesota were to play a game next week who would you expect has a higher probability to win?  Answers will vary of course but my opinion is that SF is the underdog.  If an underdog upsets then it's either a.) because the underdog was underrated and/or b.) because they were lucky/the opponent was unlucky.  My opinion is that SF and BAL are not underrated so Minnesota won those games despite having luck stacked AGAINST it.

Anyhow.. I tire of defending those idiots and think I need to vomit now.

[GOMU1104]

Spiral...I'm not going to get into hypotheticals, as it is a  complete waste of time.

Based on the final plays in the SF and BAL games, MIN was lucky to win both of them.

Moving on...next week will be fun.

[Jay Bee]

Favre did it starting about when we thought he would.  Let's see if he keeps it up.

  Wad's... is this you saying that Favre hasn't fallen off a cliff, as "we thought he would" by week 9?  Seriously?  Did you see the game?  Apparently not. 
  The two turnovers weren't Favre trying some wacky isht.  The fumble was partly on him, but due to poor line play.  It happens.  The second was Chester Taylor unable to catch a pass that he should have.  Neither of these were indicative of Favre doing 'what we thought he would'.  That's idiotic.  We were 6 point underdogs and were there at the end.  The reality is, wins matter and we're 1.5 up.   
  Winfield being out for several weeks could be brutal, though.  Here is GB's chance.  The Vikings are far and away the class of the NFC North (as the preseason Consensus knew), but GB still has a shot.  I don't know WTF to think about Chicago...
 
  BTW, the 'lucky' talk on this thread is stupid.  Win.  That's what matters.  Lucky is a bird flying on the field and connecting with the ball, breaking up a pass.  Lucky is a bad call by the referee.  US beating SF was not about luck - that was about skills. 

[GOMU1104]

I actually agree with JayBoy on this one.

The plays by Favre weren't necessarily his fault.  You maybe could blame him on the fumble, for not getting rid of the ball, or protecting it better...or whatever. Like you said, it happens, because of the way he holds the ball in the pocket.

As for the pick, Taylor definitely should have caught it. On top of it, it falls into the hands of the PIT defender. Went from bad to worse.

If, for some reason, I was a MIN fan...I would be more pissed at Chilly for 1) not giving AD the ball on the goal line and 2) not having AD in on the final drive...especially the final play. You really want C. Taylor in there in crunch time?

If you fail, and dont win the division and go very deep into the playoffs...it will be because of your slapdick of a coach...not because of Favre screwing up.


However...agreeing with JayBoy ends there...Those W's were lucky. In the end, they all count the same, but you cant discount the luck involved.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Those W's were lucky. In the end, they all count the same, but you cant discount the luck involved.

It's a double sided sword if you really want to account for wins with "luck".

You could simply call the PIT loss "unlucky" because the ball went off Taylor's hands (normally a very good receiver) when the Vikes were driving and have a very good kicker (if they needed to go for the tie).

Point being, while all 6-0 teams aren't created equal, the amount of "luck" every team gets throughout a season is usually determined by skill and their ability to execute at crunch time.

Was Kirk Gibson "lucky" to hit a home run off of Eckersly, or was that skill?
Was Christian Laettner "lucky" to hit the last second shot against UK, or was that skill?
Was Dominic James "lucky" to hit that shot last year against NC State, or was that skill?

Again, I'll be the first to admit that the Vikes were not the greatest 6-0 team on the planet, but forgive me for not voiding 2 of their wins as "luck".

Anyways, next week's game is HUGE. If the Pack wins that division, it will go down to the last game. If the Vikes win, they have a little breathing room and will definitely control their own destiny as they will have a essentially a 3 game lead at 1/2 way point.

[DegenerateDish]

Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about.  I realize they're very talented, but they have also been very lucky in 2 of their wins.  Favre did it starting about when we thought he would.  Let's see if he keeps it up.

On another note, I'm really happy the Bears traded a top 5 QB this year plus a 1st and 2nd round draft pick for the worst QB in the NFL

That makes two of us. As a Bears fan, I wouldn't even flinch, I'd make that trade again in a heartbeat. Any time you can get a Pro Bowl QB and a good young speedy receiver for an average/above average QB and picks, you make that move seven days of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

The Bears defense is just plain average at best and awful today.  Cutler was still a great upgrade in long term.

[wadesworld]

"It's not really fair to put the Vikings first loss of the season entirely on Brett Favre's shoulders, but he did after all have a hand in both fourth-quarter turnovers (a fumble and an interception) that led to two long Pittsburgh defensive touchdowns in the final seven minutes and provided the difference in the Steelers' 27-17 win at Heinz Field.
Favre's interception went right through the hands of running back Chester Taylor and into the arms of Steelers reserve linebacker Keyaron Fox, who took it back 82 yards for the game-clinching score. Favre was little more culpable on his fumble, which was recovered and returned 77 yards for a touchdown by LaMarr Woodley.
The Vikings (6-1) have had some good fortune in some of their wins this season, and maybe Sunday's loss was an indication that the worm inevitably has begun to turn a bit on that front. Minnesota played well enough to win for the most part, but if you're a Vikings fan, it has to be a little concerning that Favre had season highs in both pass attempts (51) and yards (334).
Wasn't that the fear, that Favre would want to load it up at some point and throw it 50 times, even if this was supposed to be Adrian Peterson's team to lead offensively? Minnesota ran just 23 times for 89 yards (Peterson had 69 yards on 18 carries), and wound up throwing the ball more than twice that amount. Favre had no touchdowns, the one costly pick, the fumble, and was sacked four times. The Vikings offense produced just 10 points, with the other seven coming on Percy Harvin's 88-yard fourth quarter kickoff return."

...and...

"With 11 touchdown passes and 10 interceptions through his first six games, it's getting tougher all the time to make the case that Jay Cutler has been a difference maker in Chicago.
At the very least, he's no Kyle Orton."

Looks like SI agrees with what I had to say...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/10/25/Week7.snaps/index.html?eref=sihp

Also, not a bad comment about the Packers under there; however, I don't think there's much to take from these 2 wins seeing as they're against the Browns and the Lions.  Can't wait for next weekend.

[MU B2002]

"With 11 touchdown passes and 10 interceptions through his first six games, it's getting tougher all the time to make the case that Jay Cutler has been a difference maker in Chicago.
At the very least, he's no Kyle Orton."

Looks like SI agrees with what I had to say...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/10/25/Week7.snaps/index.html?eref=sihp

Congrats, Don Banks agrees.  I would think most of Chicago would not.  Is Orton's team having a good season? Yes.  Is he responsible singlehandedly for any of those wins? I don't think so.  Yes, I was sad to see Orton go, as the photos of him partying in Chicago were hilarious, but I wouldn't take back the trade.  Now the Gaines Adams trade.... Maybe, but time will tell on that one.


I really can't pin anything on Jay yesterday, as he doesn't play DB.  Tillman for all the props Ochocinco was giving this week, looked like a high school player trying to cover 85. At least that's how it looked in the first half.  I stopped watching at that point.

[LON]

Didn't read all the posts yet but did anyone else find it hilarious that if Favre makes that tackle at the end MIN covers?

[LON]

Congrats, Don Banks agrees.

Better him, than say, Gregg Easterbrook or Peter King.

[reinko]

And what a glorious cover that was by the Steelers.  That clinched a 4 team parlay for me.  You know, just for fun of course.

[MU B2002]

What were your other 3 games?  Hypothetically of course.



If I was to make a 4 team parlay, then I would take Pitt and lay the pts, etc.

[reinko]

What were your other 3 games?  Hypothetically of course.



If I was to make a 4 team parlay, then I would take Pitt and lay the pts, etc.

I called it my homer special.  Pack -9, Steelers -6, Bengals +1, and I threw the Colts -15 into every bet I had yesterday.  So I guess that pick didn't clinch it for me, because the Bears were a late game. 

I got 12-1 on that parlay and kicking myself for not putting the Pats -14 into that one too, because I threw that game into a few other bets I had too.  A 4 team is 12-1, and a 5 teamer jumps to nearly 21-1, doh!  But the gambling gods were kind yesterday indeed.

 

[IAmMarquette]

  The two turnovers weren't Favre trying some wacky isht.  The fumble was partly on him, but due to poor line play.  It happens.  The second was Chester Taylor unable to catch a pass that he should have.  Neither of these were indicative of Favre doing 'what we thought he would'.  That's idiotic.  We were 6 point underdogs and were there at the end.  The reality is, wins matter and we're 1.5 up.

So that's one Favre turnover blamed on the offensive line, and one Favre turnover blamed on the receiver?

You guys are starting to sound like Packer fans....

[GOMU1104]

Good work Vikings:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/5357/orlando-thomas-report-was-wrong


Nothing like erroneously reporting that a former player has passed away from ALS...

[mu_hilltopper]

If Marquette called and told me GOMU1104 passed away, do you think I'd fact check that?

[GOMU1104]

If Marquette called and told me GOMU1104 passed away, do you think I'd fact check that?

I would hope so.

I'm no journalist, but isnt breaking news supposed to be confirmed by 2 sources?


Hopefully karma comes back around this Sunday, from 3:15 PM until 6:30 PM