NFC North Intelligent, Civilized Discussion 09/10 season

[Hards Alumni]

I loved the extra TD.

Everybody in America was high on Dallas last week. The Vikes heard a ton of national media say Dallas would win.

Nice for the players to make a little statement at the end of the game.

They look really good, clearly they deserve to be in the NFC title game.


Now, I know some people will disagree with me, but I say even with a loss to the Saints, the "favre experiment" was worth it. He's clearly giving the Vikings the best chance to win this season.

I know a lot of people think it "superbowl or bust", but I don't think it's that simple or black and white.

Next season, I have no idea who will play QB. Maybe Brady Quinn?

if you think Brett Favre won't be back, you are kidding yourself.

[LON]

if you think Brett Favre won't be back, you are kidding yourself.

It's been a back and forth decision for him since 2001, what makes you so sure?

[Hards Alumni]

It's been a back and forth decision for him since 2001, what makes you so sure?

history?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I understand what your saying, but I don't see how it can be anything but Super Bowl or bust. Not sure you can call it a failure, but that's why he was brought to MN. Its not as if they were a 4-12 team. They were in the playoffs last year as it was, and brought back almost the same team...actually they improved their roster independent of QB. They won a bunch of regular season games and 1 playoff game at home. This Sunday is what he was brought in for. If they don't go to the Super Bowl, what do they have that makes the 'experiment' worth it? Fact is, by this time next week, whoever loses might as well be Arizona, or Dallas, or Green Bay.

As the NFL has proven time and time again, next year is anything but guaranteed. If they lose Sunday, is there really any appreciable difference between what they accomplished in 2008/09 and 2009/10?

Well, I would say that they have a legitimate shot at making the superbowl this year.

Last year's team did not.

This year's team without Favre probably wouldn't have a shot.

Therefore, I think it's a mild success even if they lose.

Look at it this way, what did it hurt? Their choices were Jackson or Favre. Favre was an upgrade.


Here's another scenario: CC Sabathia. Yes he got the Brewers to the playoffs, but they didn't even make it out of the first round. Was it worth it? I'd say yes.

Without Favre, the Vikes probably don't get the second seed and may or may not have made the playoffs.

[Jay Bee]

Ugh... here we go again.  As 2002mualum and I recognized before the season started, Favre to the Vikings would be a terrible, stupid worthless decision to some of you unless the Vikings won the Super Bowl with Favre passing for 6 TDs and 500 yards and getting the MVP of the game.

The fact of the matter is we didn't have a good QB - and were able to bring on a great one.  Therefore it made sense.  It was a huge upgrade to our QB situation and therefore I was OK with the decision on day 1.  Simple as that.  The Favre signing was a good move the moment Chilly scooped him up from the airport.  It was an immediate success in that we gave ourselves a better chance for success this season, including raising the probability of us reaching the Super Bowl.

Having now made it two rounds further in the playoffs than last year, I believe this season is a success.  Will I be disappointed if we don't make it to the Super Bowl?  Absolutely.  But, without Favre it's unlikely we find ourselves anywhere close to where we stand today.

And as much as I think Zigi is a weirdo, props to the Wilf's for spending money on this team.  It's nice to see for once in the state of Minnesota. 

SKOL VIKINGS!

[GGGG]

I understand where you are coming from Jay Bee and I agree with you.  Plus, this season has probably been a lot of fun for Vikings fans.  And that has to factor in too...  If Sage Rosenfels was the quarterback, and the Vikings lost on the road yesterday to the Cowboys, my guess is that it wouldn't have been nearly the adventure that this season was.  And as a fan, that should count for something.

As as a Packer fan, rooting for them during the Favre era was a lot of fun, even though they only won one Super Bowl. 

[NavinRJohnson]

Here's another scenario: CC Sabathia. Yes he got the Brewers to the playoffs, but they didn't even make it out of the first round. Was it worth it? I'd say yes.

Without Favre, the Vikes probably don't get the second seed and may or may not have made the playoffs.

Very different situations. The brewers had not been to the playoffs in a quarter century. That was their goal, and he helped the achieve it. Nobody had any illusions of the Brewers making the World Series. The Viking have been in the playoffs, just last year as a matter of fact, and if they don't win Sunday,  really, how did they accomplish anything more this year than last? Does one playoff win really do anything for you? I'm sure it has been fun for the fans, and I agree that has some value, but make no mistake about what the goal for the Vikings was this year...to be playing on February 4th.

[Jay Bee]

The Viking have been in the playoffs, just last year as a matter of fact, and if they don't win Sunday,  really, how did they accomplish anything more this year than last? Does one playoff win really do anything for you? I'm sure it has been fun for the fans, and I agree that has some value, but make no mistake about what the goal for the Vikings was this year...to be playing on February 4th.

  First off, who would want to play on a Thursday night in February?  We're aiming for February 7th.  Can you list for me the teams that did NOT have a goal of making it to the Super Bowl?  We accomplished much more this year, but the key is that we gave ourselves a better chance.  You can downplay 'one playoff win' all you want, but the reality is some knuckleheads thought both Chicago and Green Bay would compete for the NFC North title this year (although the Vikes were the CONSENSUS CHAMPS!!).  To win back to back division titles, to be the #2 seed, to make it to the NFC Championship.. all huge and yes, making it to the NFC Championship game is a bigger accomplishment than limping into the playoffs and having a wildcard game that you feel like you're going to lose, then you do lose. 

  Having 9 named to the Pro Bowl is an accomplishment.  Beating Green Bay twice was very fun.  I also think Sidney Rice's career has benefitted from playing with Brett Favre... his confidence is sky high and something he can build on (also props to Cris Carter and Larry Fitz for helping the young man). 

  Of course, I will admit the upsetting part of the year that may haunt us for years to come - extending Childress.  FAK!

  Even today, where we sit.. with T-Jack starting at NO, I would be preparing for disappointment.  However, with Favre, a guy that I despised for many years, I am a true believer - in the team and in our QB. 

  Sultan, you're right on... it's been an extremely fun season... a circus was possible, but we got away from the 'schizm' quickly and the Brett/Brad 'beef' has been muted.  Plus, Brett does a better rendition of 'Pants On The Ground' than Sage or Tarvaris ever could.

 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Very different situations. The brewers had not been to the playoffs in a quarter century. That was their goal, and he helped the achieve it. Nobody had any illusions of the Brewers making the World Series. The Viking have been in the playoffs, just last year as a matter of fact, and if they don't win Sunday,  really, how did they accomplish anything more this year than last? Does one playoff win really do anything for you? I'm sure it has been fun for the fans, and I agree that has some value, but make no mistake about what the goal for the Vikings was this year...to be playing on February 4th.

The Vikes were in the playoffs last year, but they haven't had a good shot at the superbowl since 1998.

That makes Favre worth it.

Also, they didn't give anything up to get him, so even if/when he walks away, I still say it was worth it.

[MU B2002]

Hey Jay Bee,

You've got money.  Congrats.

[NavinRJohnson]

No comment necessary, but I'll make one anyway...the Viking defense played about as well as they could have in the second half, and the Vikings hillbilly QB once again, literally throws the game away. Would they have been in the game without him? No, probably not, but now they have one more playoff win than they did last season, and now its back to the drawing board where QB is concerned (If they bring him back next year, they're nuts).

He got them to the game, so it was absolutely a risk worth taking, but he also lost it, so I guess in the end, it is more or less a net zero.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No comment necessary, but I'll make one anyway...the Viking defense played about as well as they could have in the second half, and the Vikings hillbilly QB once again, literally throws the game away. Would they have been in the game without him? No, probably not, but now they have one more playoff win than they did last season, and now its back to the drawing board where QB is concerned (If they bring him back next year, they're nuts).

He got them to the game, so it was absolutely a risk worth taking, but he also lost it, so I guess in the end, it is more or less a net zero.

As much as I've harped on Brett over the years, you can't fumble the ball as many times as they did and expect to win.  Yes, really dumb throw on his part and his career is littered with really really dumb throws.  If his teammates would have hung on to the other ones, he wouldn't have had to throw that one.  I feel bad for him in a way. 

[Josey Wales]

Good ol Bert finally came through for me!!! What a game.

[MUEng92]

Has he announced his retirement yet?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No comment necessary, but I'll make one anyway...the Viking defense played about as well as they could have in the second half, and the Vikings hillbilly QB once again, literally throws the game away. Would they have been in the game without him? No, probably not, but now they have one more playoff win than they did last season, and now its back to the drawing board where QB is concerned (If they bring him back next year, they're nuts).

He got them to the game, so it was absolutely a risk worth taking, but he also lost it, so I guess in the end, it is more or less a net zero.

#1 The throw sucked.

#2 The 5 yard penalty for too many men in the huddle was definitely dumber and probably a bigger killer. They could have run the ball and had a decent shot at a game winner.

#3 I think it's definitely a net gain. He had a great season (better than anybody predicted), helped create a lot of excitement for the franchise and got them to the NFC championship game for the first time in 10 years.

What was the downside? Was Jackson going to take them to the superbowl? I can't imagine that... so brett was definitely worth it.

[GOMU1104]

734 days ago GB fans experienced exactly what MIN fans are feeling right now. I was in Lambeau Field that night. Favre threw the pick, and I knew it was over. Didnt say a word the next 3 hours on the ride home. Went to Murphys and starred into a beer for a couple of hours.

I wouldnt wish that heartbreak on anyone.......except Vikings fans     (oh yea, and Cubs fans)

[NavinRJohnson]

BTW, what the hell happened to Adrian Peterson...the guy has had more fumbles than yards the second half of the season. Whether that was in part a result of Favre's presence is tough to say...I happen to think so, and was one of the reasons I thought the Favre signing was not a great idea. They had a great year, so maybe not a big deal, but dude flat disappeared down the stretch.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

BTW, what the hell happened to Adrian Peterson...the guy has had more fumbles than yards the second half of the season. Whether that was in part a result of Favre's presence is tough to say...I happen to think so, and was one of the reasons I thought the Favre signing was not a great idea. They had a great year, so maybe not a big deal, but dude flat disappeared down the stretch.

Are you saying that Favre has something to do with Peterson's fumbles?

[MUEng92]

That is hilarious.  The local news hasn't even started after the game and the FOX guys are already debating whether Favre will retire.

With all of the questions in life today, the stock market, health care, natural disasters...it's nice to know some things don't change.  Favre ends seasons throwing interceptions and spends offseasons making sure everyone is still talking about him.

[NavinRJohnson]

Are you saying that Favre has something to do with Peterson's fumbles?

Of course not, and you clearly know that's not what I'm saying. I do think it is reasonable to conclude that Favre has something to do with his lack of yards however. Again, they won games, so who really cares, but one does have to wonder if they stuck to running the ball more...

[Jay Bee]

Clearly we made the wrong choice by not starting T-Jack.

We are now paying the price.

[GGGG]

The Glorious Franchise is now not only 0-4 in the Super Bowl, but 0-5 in the NFCCG since their last Super Bowl loss.

LOL.

[NavinRJohnson]

Clearly we made the wrong choice by not starting T-Jack.

We are now paying the price.

Favre opened the window of opportunity, no question, but surprising to nobody,  took that chance and threw it to the Saints with a stupid decision in a big spot. The problem for the Vikings of course is that they don't have Aaron Rodgers sitting on the bench for next year, so its back to trying to develop Jackson or Sage. A good year for Viking fans to be sure, but the teams has very little to show for the Favre experience. Teams go up and down real quick in the NFL, so who knows what will happen. One things for sure, if Adrian Peterson doesn't turn back into Adrian Peterson next year, the Vikings are going to SUCK!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Of course not, and you clearly know that's not what I'm saying. I do think it is reasonable to conclude that Favre has something to do with his lack of yards however. Again, they won games, so who really cares, but one does have to wonder if they stuck to running the ball more...

I really didn't know what you were trying to say (honest, I read your post a few times.). I hear what you are saying now.

As far as Brett reducing Adrian's production, I really don't think so.

Peterson still had 1700 total yards and 18 tds (career high). He touched the ball 27 less times this season. I don't think that's a huge difference.

He also got the ball 54 times in the 2 playoff games... it's not like they didn't use him. How many times a game do you think they should use him? Its easy to say "more", but I don't think there is a magic number, ya know?

I can obviously see that AP didn't dominate like in past years, but that's probably more on the offensive line and on him than on a lack of use or touches.

[NavinRJohnson]

Almost forgot that contract extension that Childress got...nice!