‘I Can’t Breathe’: 4 Minneapolis Officers Fired After Black Man Dies in Custody

[shoothoops]

I'm a little torn about this.
She obviously behaved terribly and the criticism of her behavior is well deserved. Charges for making a false 911 call seem appropriate as well.
But knowing nothing else about her - and none of us do - it seems that rooting for her to be made a pariah and celebrating her losing her job isn't an especially humane stance. We've all done things we regret, probably most of them involving lousy treatment of others, and fortunately those things don't define most of us for life.
I think we're better off hoping that this becomes a harsh learning experience for her, and others like her, rather than a life-destroying event.
It's worth noting that the victim here is taking a far more charitable stance than many.

Now imagine if she hadn't been recorded and the police shows up, believes her story, etc...

Quick side story. I don't watch the television program often, "America's Got Talent" often, but this is a 9 minute clip of a black gentleman (Archie Williams) wrongly convicted of a rape and stabbing a white woman, and he spent 36 years in Angola State Prison. The Innocence Project took on his case and finger print evidence cleared him within hours. He wasn't even there. This is worth people's time:


https://twitter.com/AGT/status/1263677683457642501?s=19

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/us/fingerprint-database-archie-williams.html#click=https://t.co/Z4pYMD2sN3

[The Sultan]

I'm a little torn about this.
She obviously behaved terribly and the criticism of her behavior is well deserved. Charges for making a false 911 call seem appropriate as well.
But knowing nothing else about her - and none of us do - it seems that rooting for her to be made a pariah and celebrating her losing her job isn't an especially humane stance. We've all done things we regret, probably most of them involving lousy treatment of others, and fortunately those things don't define most of us for life.
I think we're better off hoping that this becomes a harsh learning experience for her, and others like her, rather than a life-destroying event.
It's worth noting that the victim here is taking a far more charitable stance than many.

I agree.  I also think that the heightened stress that people are dealing with could be a factor.

She wasn't treating her dog too kindly either.

[Pakuni]

Now imagine if she hadn't been recorded and the police shows up, believes her story, etc...

I am imagining that. It's what makes her behavior terrible.
Nobody's justifying or excusing what she did. I'm just suggesting that the social media mob demanding her ruination - including those actually threatening her life - ease up a little and perhaps gain some perspective.

[shoothoops]

I am imagining that. It's what makes her behavior terrible.
Nobody's justifying or excusing what she did. I'm just suggesting that the social media mob demanding her ruination - including those actually threatening her life - ease up a little and perhaps gain some perspective.

I don't disagree with that. But for me the main story is the long history of falsely incarcerated black people. People are reacting to that in the moment in a wide variety of ways. That long history is what makes this different than other cases where one would make it simply about what happened here and after. There's more to it than that. She can go through the legal system, make restitution, learn, change behavior, and get other chances, sure. But it's pretty easy to understand just how dangerous her actions were in this situation.

[MU82]

I am imagining that. It's what makes her behavior terrible.
Nobody's justifying or excusing what she did. I'm just suggesting that the social media mob demanding her ruination - including those actually threatening her life - ease up a little and perhaps gain some perspective.

Obviously the threats of physical violence against her are way over the top. But the rest of it? I don't know ... she was perfectly willing to ruin the life of her "attacker."

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/status/1265761509772349440?s=19

[Pakuni]

Obviously the threats of physical violence against her are way over the top. But the rest of it? I don't know ... she was perfectly willing to ruin the life of her "attacker."

Might I suggest there's a difference between bad behavior that occurs in the moment during a heated confrontation and dispassionately sitting behind a keyboard advocating/orchestrating the destruction of another person.

Again, nobody is suggesting what she did is OK or ought to be consequence-free. But let's not pretend these things are the same.

[MU82]

Might I suggest there's a difference between bad behavior that occurs in the moment during a heated confrontation and dispassionately sitting behind a keyboard advocating/orchestrating the destruction of another person.

Again, nobody is suggesting what she did is OK or ought to be consequence-free. But let's not pretend these things are the same.

Very reasonable, Pak.

[mu03eng]

I'm with Pakuni on this one. There need to be consequences commensurate with the societal harm, but with exceptions(these cops in MN being a perfect example of an exception) people should be redeemable.

There has to be a way back for her in some capacity. One of the ills of society IMO is that we write people off, especially within social media.

[warriorchick]

I'm with Pakuni on this one. There need to be consequences commensurate with the societal harm, but with exceptions(these cops in MN being a perfect example of an exception) people should be redeemable.

There has to be a way back for her in some capacity. One of the ills of society IMO is that we write people off, especially within social media.

And I believe there will be a way back for her. Someone will understand why her employer had to fire her and decide to give her a chance.
But her behavior was atrocious, and I don't think her current employer had any other choice.

[Jockey]

Obviously the threats of physical violence against her are way over the top. But the rest of it? I don't know ... she was perfectly willing to ruin the life of her "attacker."

Black men through the years have been jailed or murdered after a white woman did what she did. From the video, she expressed zero fear. Even while telling police that a blac man was threatening her life, she made no attempt to leave the area.

In other words, she deserves every bad thing that happens to her. We just saw what cops did to a black man who was no threat to anyone. The same could easily have happened here to this innocent man.

[reinko]

And I believe there will be a way back for her. Someone will understand why her employer had to fire her and decide to give her a chance.
But her behavior was atrocious, and I don't think her current employer had any other choice.

Perfectly stated chick.

[Lennys Tap]

The bird watcher from Central Park is trying to make peace.

Tower

Good for him. He has every right to be angry - much angrier than any of us bystanders. Choosing some kind of forgiveness under those circumstances is as amazing as it is praiseworthy.

The most powerful and inspiring moment in recent US history (IMO) occurred in a Dallas courtroom when Brandt Jean delivered his victim's impact statement after white police officer Amber Guyger had been convicted for the murder of his brother, Botham Jean. Brandt Jean not only forgave Guyger, he asked the judge for permission to hold Officer Guyger, for a moment, in a forgiving embrace. Guyger sobbing on Jean's shoulder as he comforted her showed a decency, goodness and humanity that don't seem to have a place in our dysfunctional society. That dude should have been given the Nobel Peace Prize and the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but he was a footnote in short order - too bad.

[GooooMarquette]

Things are getting ugly in MPLS again tonight. I hope they bring appropriate charges ASAP.

As an aside, my daughter works practically across the street from the police building. Makes a dad kinda nervous....

[MU82]

Tower

Good for him. He has every right to be angry - much angrier than any of us bystanders. Choosing some kind of forgiveness under those circumstances is as amazing as it is praiseworthy.

The most powerful and inspiring moment in recent US history (IMO) occurred in a Dallas courtroom when Brandt Jean delivered his victim's impact statement after white police officer Amber Guyger had been convicted for the murder of his brother, Botham Jean. Brandt Jean not only forgave Guyger, he asked the judge for permission to hold Officer Guyger, for a moment, in a forgiving embrace. Guyger sobbing on Jean's shoulder as he comforted her showed a decency, goodness and humanity that don't seem to have a place in our dysfunctional society. That dude should have been given the Nobel Peace Prize and the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but he was a footnote in short order - too bad.

I remember that, Lenny. Great stuff.

Also, many of the families of the victims of Dylann Roof, the white supremacist who shot up a black church outside of Charleston, did not think he should get the death penalty and spoke in forgiving tones.

Sometimes, the capacity for compassion in humans surprises me. Not often enough, but sometimes.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Autozone is burning.

Protesters or more of Bo Ryan's D.Bs?

[withoutbias]

Autozone is burning.

Protesters or more of Bo Ryan's D.Bs?

I'm all for making fun of the Grinch but there's a time and a place and this is neither

[Jables1604]

Tower

Good for him. He has every right to be angry - much angrier than any of us bystanders. Choosing some kind of forgiveness under those circumstances is as amazing as it is praiseworthy.

The most powerful and inspiring moment in recent US history (IMO) occurred in a Dallas courtroom when Brandt Jean delivered his victim's impact statement after white police officer Amber Guyger had been convicted for the murder of his brother, Botham Jean. Brandt Jean not only forgave Guyger, he asked the judge for permission to hold Officer Guyger, for a moment, in a forgiving embrace. Guyger sobbing on Jean's shoulder as he comforted her showed a decency, goodness and humanity that don't seem to have a place in our dysfunctional society. That dude should have been given the Nobel Peace Prize and the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but he was a footnote in short order - too bad.

That Presidential Medal of Freedom went to Rush Limbaugh instead.

[WarriorFan]

I don't know the percentage of good cops vs. bad cops and I'm sure there are a lot of good ones, but what I can share is the advice I gave my son as he moved out on his own:  Recognize in life that the most dangerous encounters you will have with people are with law enforcement officers.  Be careful what you say, don't do anything, keep your hands visible, make no fast movements, don't reach for anything.  An encounter - even by chance - with a bad one in a bad mood and you're dead.  The bad ones think they are above or even outside the law and unfortunately most have strong unions protecting them so when they do something wrong it just turns into a paid vacation. 

I completely admire Sterling Brown for how he kept his cool during his situation.  That's what we all need to do in that situation.  It can really happen to anyone.

[Hards Alumni]

https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/status/1265761509772349440?s=19

I'm not telling you how to live your life, but can you just post what the tweet says and save us all a click?

[Hards Alumni]

I don't know the percentage of good cops vs. bad cops and I'm sure there are a lot of good ones, but what I can share is the advice I gave my son as he moved out on his own:  Recognize in life that the most dangerous encounters you will have with people are with law enforcement officers.  Be careful what you say, don't do anything, keep your hands visible, make no fast movements, don't reach for anything.  An encounter - even by chance - with a bad one in a bad mood and you're dead.  The bad ones think they are above or even outside the law and unfortunately most have strong unions protecting them so when they do something wrong it just turns into a paid vacation. 

I completely admire Sterling Brown for how he kept his cool during his situation.  That's what we all need to do in that situation.  It can really happen to anyone.

The real trouble is that events like this make the good cops look like bad guys.  And it makes them leave the force.  Only to be replaced by more questionable guys.

[MU82]

The real trouble is that events like this make the good cops look like bad guys.  And it makes them leave the force.  Only to be replaced by more questionable guys.

Maybe ... but just don't kneel on somebody's neck till you kill him or her.

[Pakuni]

I don't know the percentage of good cops vs. bad cops and I'm sure there are a lot of good ones, but what I can share is the advice I gave my son as he moved out on his own:  Recognize in life that the most dangerous encounters you will have with people are with law enforcement officers.  Be careful what you say, don't do anything, keep your hands visible, make no fast movements, don't reach for anything.  An encounter - even by chance - with a bad one in a bad mood and you're dead.  The bad ones think they are above or even outside the law and unfortunately most have strong unions protecting them so when they do something wrong it just turns into a paid vacation. 

I completely admire Sterling Brown for how he kept his cool during his situation.  That's what we all need to do in that situation.  It can really happen to anyone.

My work used to involve me interacting with cops every day, and the truth is the vast, vast majority are decent people just trying to do their jobs as best as they are able.
But there are too many a-holes on power trips who view much of the public adversarially, rather than those they serve and protect. And, unfortunately, too many within that minority rise to positions of power, usually not within the departments themselves, but in FOPs and other cop associations. And those leaders can make life very difficult for the good cops willing to call out and report on the bad cops, which reinforces the blue wall of silence.
Want to find a bad cop? A good place to look is the FOP leadership.

[Hards Alumni]

Maybe ... but just don't kneel on somebody's neck till you kill him or her.

Wholeheartedly agree.  I'm saying this behavior makes the good cops embarrassed to be cops.  So they quit.

[MUfan12]

Autozone is burning.

Protesters or more of Bo Ryan's D.Bs?

I laughed.