‘I Can’t Breathe’: 4 Minneapolis Officers Fired After Black Man Dies in Custody

[GooooMarquette]

As a white male who has never gone through what minorities go through every day, I won't talk bad about people for reacting angrily or violently. How many times do they have to watch someone who looks like them get murdered without proper justice being served? How long until they or one of their loved ones are the ones being choked or shot while unarmed? If it's a one time thing, sure, it's an overreaction. But it happens over and over. I'm sure the frustration and anger builds up. It's easy for me as a white male to sit behind a computer screen and say how they're reacting isn't helping. But the reality is nothing has helped and, sadly, nothing will help. So maybe if I were in there shoes I'd need to take out some frustration, too.

I ponder the same thing. Maybe their learned helplessness and vulnerability leads to overreaction and irrational acts in a crisis.

[Lennys Tap]

As a white male who has never gone through what minorities go through every day, I won't talk bad about people for reacting angrily or violently. How many times do they have to watch someone who looks like them get murdered without proper justice being served? How long until they or one of their loved ones are the ones being choked or shot while unarmed? If it's a one time thing, sure, it's an overreaction. But it happens over and over. I'm sure the frustration and anger builds up. It's easy for me as a white male to sit behind a computer screen and say how they're reacting isn't helping. But the reality is nothing has helped and, sadly, nothing will help. So maybe if I were in there shoes I'd need to take out some frustration, too.

So when people abuse their children do you defend them if they were once abused? This incident was awful - anyone who isn't outraged lacks humanity. But using injustice to justify further injustice isn't (thankfully) a "solution" that most people (black, white or other) endorse. If you were "in their shoes" and acted like this small minority are acting  you'd be wrong, too.

[Lennys Tap]

Who hurt you, Lenny?

Pakuni

Sorry the sarcasm eluded you. Should have used teal, I guess.

[GooooMarquette]

So when people abuse their children do you defend them if they were once abused? This incident was awful - anyone who isn't outraged lacks humanity. But using injustice to justify further injustice isn't (thankfully) a "solution" that most people (black, white or other) endorse. If you were "in their shoes" and acted like this small minority are acting  you'd be wrong, too.

I don't see his post as defending them as much as trying to understand them and their frustration. That certainly is what I am trying to do.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni

Sorry the sarcasm eluded you. Should have used teal, I guess.

Given recent posts, I'm starting to wonder if we have different definitions of sarcasm.

[GooooMarquette]

The Third Precinct building now engulfed in flames, and the police seem to have totally disappeared from the area. And the fire department is no longer responding to the fires.

Minneapolis is burning, and there is no law enforcement presence. Wtf?

[Lennys Tap]

I don't see his post as defending them as much as trying to understand them and their frustration. That certainly is what I am trying to do.

Most of the African American population gets it - rioting, looting, etc., is not an effective way to vent one's frustration, no matter how legitimate and understandable that frustration is. The people who are entitled to the most anger and outrage (the victim's family) have asked for calm. People of all races are united in their support of this victim. Will riots and violence help or hinder the pursuit of justice going forward? I'm all about trying to understand people's behavior and the mitigating circumstances that precipitated it. Seeing that video was agonizing and heartbreaking. And when it happens in your community to someone who could be your Dad, brother or son it is so, so much worse. It is beyond awful. But rioters (depending how bad this gets) will only give cover to the racists. One tragedy on top of another. Opportunity lost, at least that's my fear.

[wadesworld]

So when people abuse their children do you defend them if they were once abused? This incident was awful - anyone who isn't outraged lacks humanity. But using injustice to justify further injustice isn't (thankfully) a "solution" that most people (black, white or other) endorse. If you were "in their shoes" and acted like this small minority are acting  you'd be wrong, too.

I will try to be empathetic towards them, yes. I haven't gone through what they've gone through, so I don't know how I'd react or behave in different situations. I'm glad you know you'd be a better person than those people though. Makes me feel better about myself for having graduated from a place that graduated such great people like yourself.

Anyways, this is one good way to turn a peaceful protest into a not-so-peaceful-protest.

https://www.facebook.com/799539910084929/posts/3185804524791777/?vh=e&d=n

But the protestors should show some restraint, so...

[Warrior2008]

As a white male who has never gone through what minorities go through every day, I won't talk bad about people for reacting angrily or violently. How many times do they have to watch someone who looks like them get murdered without proper justice being served? How long until they or one of their loved ones are the ones being choked or shot while unarmed? If it's a one time thing, sure, it's an overreaction. But it happens over and over. I'm sure the frustration and anger builds up. It's easy for me as a white male to sit behind a computer screen and say how they're reacting isn't helping. But the reality is nothing has helped and, sadly, nothing will help. So maybe if I were in there shoes I'd need to take out some frustration, too.

Many of the businesses destroyed and being destroyed are minority owned small businesses. As a white male behind a computer screen, does that bother you at all?

[Lennys Tap]

The Third Precinct building now engulfed in flames, and the police seem to have totally disappeared from the area. And the fire department is no longer responding to the fires.

Minneapolis is burning, and there is no law enforcement presence. Wtf?

What would you do? What happens if a few protesters/rioters or a few cops or firemen end up dead? Sooner or later, property will have to be protected. Sounds like the mayor has decided "not yet".

[wadesworld]

Many of the businesses destroyed and being destroyed are minority owned small businesses. As a white male behind a computer screen, does that bother you at all?

Sure. Would that be happening without a black man being suffocated while handcuffed and unarmed?

I'm honestly embarrassed that this is actually the concern here. What would you like people to do? They protest peacefully like in Charleston, South Carolina and they will still see the white man who shot up a black church arrested peacefully and taken to Burger King on his way to the police station because he's hungry while the unarmed black man gets choked to death without even resisting arrest. Clearly peaceful protests do nothing. So do what? Just accept it? Do what the cops tell you to no matter what? And get murdered anyway?

I'll step away from this one for the night. If you can't see that redirecting the discussion to how poorly these minorities are acting towards other minorities rather than discussing what 4 cops did to an unarmed, handcuffed black man then you're part of the problem. Don't want violent protests? Don't drive through the streets pepper spraying peaceful protests of a murdered minority.

[Pakuni]

Of course the rioting, looting, violence and destruction of property is wrong.
But hurting their cause? Nobody horrified by that video of George Floyd being killed sees the rioting and thinks, "You know, maybe George Floyd deserved to die."

[Lennys Tap]

I will try to be empathetic towards them, yes. I haven't gone through what they've gone through, so I don't know how I'd react or behave in different situations. I'm glad you know you'd be a better person than those people though. Makes me feel better about myself for having graduated from a place that graduated such great people like yourself.

I grew up during the Civil Rights movement. I saw MLK make a lot of progress while others who pushed hate and defended violence got nowhere.

The most heinous events can become teachable moments - or they can be used as an excuse for righteous hate and vengeance.

My Marquette education (and a long time on the planet) inform my thinking that MLK's way was the better of the two options. Your experiences (at MU and in life) lead you down a different path. That (IMO) is unfortunate.

[Jockey]

Worst of all, the tapes I've seen indicate a serious lack of social distancing by the protesters. Some Scoopers call that terrorism.

Uncalled for and cruel.

[Jockey]

The rioting is awful. It doesn't fix any grievance.

But would a peaceful protest fix anything? Have the last 60 years of protests fixed anything.

This is about corrup police. Period. Corruption at the top. Corruption by the police union. Corruption by "good" cops who look the other way from the creeps that commit this abuse.

Top that off with a racist in the White House who gives a wink to racist acts and there is no reason to think things will get better.

[GooooMarquette]

What would you do? What happens if a few protesters/rioters or a few cops or firemen end up dead? Sooner or later, property will have to be protected. Sounds like the mayor has decided "not yet".

I don't have all the answers, but it seems there should be a middle ground between martial law and no law. Even the experts on the news programs are saying they have never seen law enforcement totally disappear in a situation like this.

Is the city going to pay property owners for damage that occurs after they abandoned the area?

[Dish]

I'm all for protesting, and enough was enough more than long ago regarding police brutality against African Americans, but the National Guard or Army has to come in immediately. If Police and Emergency Response is seemingly giving up, how is the rioting and looting going to stop? People have every right to be pissed off, and express that, but more potential loss of life or more loss of people's livelihoods, isn't going to help bring justice for Mr. Floyd.

[Warrior2008]

Sure. Would that be happening without a black man being suffocated while handcuffed and unarmed?

I'm honestly embarrassed that this is actually the concern here. What would you like people to do? They protest peacefully like in Charleston, South Carolina and they will still see the white man who shot up a black church arrested peacefully and taken to Burger King on his way to the police station because he's hungry while the unarmed black man gets choked to death without even resisting arrest. Clearly peaceful protests do nothing. So do what? Just accept it? Do what the cops tell you to no matter what? And get murdered anyway?

I'll step away from this one for the night. If you can't see that redirecting the discussion to how poorly these minorities are acting towards other minorities rather than discussing what 4 cops did to an unarmed, handcuffed black man then you're part of the problem. Don't want violent protests? Don't drive through the streets pepper spraying peaceful protests of a murdered minority.

Justifying property destruction and further violence against people who have nothing to do with George Floyd's abhorrent murder won't solve anything. It only perpetuates misery to more people, many of whom are in a tough business climate because of covid to begin with.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't have all the answers, but it seems there should be a middle ground between martial law and no law. Even the experts on the news programs are saying they have never seen law enforcement totally disappear in a situation like this.

Is the city going to pay property owners for damage that occurs after they abandoned the area?

Goooo

You either tell the cops to defend property or not. If they do, people trying to destroy that property may get hurt. If the situation escalates, some (rioters and cops) might end up dead. How does that play with the experts on the news? The last thing this situation needs right now is more casualties. For better or for worse, I guess the mayor has decided to retreat and hope the violence dies of natural causes. Only one thing certain - any and every decision made will be widely criticized.

[GooooMarquette]

Goooo

You either tell the cops to defend property or not. If they do, people trying to destroy that property may get hurt. If the situation escalates, some (rioters and cops) might end up dead. How does that play with the experts on the news? The last thing this situation needs right now is more casualties. For better or for worse, I guess the mayor has decided to retreat and hope the violence dies of natural causes. Only one thing certain - any and every decision made will be widely criticized.

But how does completely abandoning the area prevent casualties? There are widespread fires, people lighting fireworks in a big crowd, even people threatening CNN reporters covering the event. If there aren't any more casualties, it will just be dumb luck.

And as I said, experienced officials (specifically the DC Police Chief) say they have never seen a whole area just abandoned like this. That isn't me - that's the police chief of one of the largest metro areas in the US.

[Jockey]

I've gotta wonder. Would it have eased tensions if the police had arrested these four cops? By them doing nothing, did people get the message that it is business as usual -that there are no consequences for killing blacks?

[forgetful]

nm

[GooooMarquette]

The city is now warning that there may be severed gas lines around the burning police building. And CNN reporters were saying they could smell the gas so they left the immediate area. Yet there is still no police or fire department presence.

If the gas line explodes, it could be catastrophic.

[Jockey]

It can always get worse. The Prez just played to his base by using the "thugs" word. Of course he attacked the radical left mayor and said he will send in the national guard to start shooting looters.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I grew up during the Civil Rights movement. I saw MLK make a lot of progress while others who pushed hate and defended violence got nowhere.

The most heinous events can become teachable moments - or they can be used as an excuse for righteous hate and vengeance.

My Marquette education (and a long time on the planet) inform my thinking that MLK's way was the better of the two options. Your experiences (at MU and in life) lead you down a different path. That (IMO) is unfortunate.

"I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."

Dr. King certainly didn't condone rioting, but he understood why it happened and recognized that the only way to stop it was to address the injustice that caused the riot in the first place.

Rioters are committing crimes. They should be held accountable. But I would hate to see us become distracted from the greater injustice by focusing on the rioters rather than the murderer who sparked them.