MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GooooMarquette on May 26, 2020, 04:07:34 PM
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Horribly sad story, and disturbing video.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/26/us/minneapolis-police-man-died.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200526&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=88591053&segment_id=29201&user_id=a4394b6a5672354a123af665691a6f2d
According to the mayor's statement, we don't even see all of it. Apparently, he was handcuffed and pinned down for five minutes, literally dying on video with an officer's knee on his neck.
I try to give the police the benefit of the doubt if it's ambiguous because I know they have a dangerous and sh!tty job, but this guy was clearly no longer a threat. Heck, the officer in the foreground of the video was more concerned with the onlookers.
Wtf is wrong with people?
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Officer should go to prison for manslaughter. To bad he'll get paid leave.
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After having lived through Laquan McDonald in Chicago, I can believe anything.
As a Dad whose son is completing his BA in hopes of being a policeman, I'm learning how difficult that job can be everyday. It's tough and I have a newfound respect for people who do the job of a policeman well (hint: not spending their lives as municipal revenue officers or being 21-year-old jags who are on a power high).
But the expectation we have of our policemen and women is they respect the dignity of all persons with whom they come in contact. That means in Chicago's and Minneapolis' case (or Baltimore's too, as a third case like this happened in Baltimore), you use the minimum level of force necessary to detain and subdue a suspect. Training has to focus on that point and weed out those whose temperament will lead to abuse and degradation of suspects.
Otherwise, you turn small-time thugs like Mr. McDonald into folk heroes.
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Honestly, the policeman's actions just .. boggle the mind. Police aren't trained to choke the life out of people, and yet, that's precisely what is on the video.
And it's not some split second decision, it was minutes of, no other way to put this: a slow motion murdering.
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F#cking animal.
You drop those cops in Fallujah and they sh1t their panties.
Big difference when the other guys can fight back. F#cking cowards.
I hope those four cops go to prison and get anally raped nightly.
Their write-up, claiming the victim was "suffering medical distress," is so morally repulsive - since Emancipation, cops have killed black men, or watched others do it, then lied about what actually happened.
Thank God for cell cams.
I hope those four suffer unspeakable horrors. What a betrayal of trust and public confidence.
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Jack Booted Thugs. Hope they are convicted and put in the general population in prison.
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I'm not ready to throw all four of them into hell. We saw the one standing cop, and that's solidly awful. We need to know where the other two were, how far away, if they could see what was happening, etc.
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I'm not ready to throw all four of them into hell. We saw the one standing cop, and that's solidly awful. We need to know where the other two were, how far away, if they could see what was happening, etc.
Three cops held the man down while the 4th kept the crowd in check.
I call it murder.
(https://heavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/minneapolis-police-video-photo-4-officers.png?w=442)
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Three cops held the man down while the 4th kept the crowd in check.
I call it murder.
(https://heavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/minneapolis-police-video-photo-4-officers.png?w=442)
Agree. This is IMO the absolute worst of the recent officer involved deaths of black men. Even if this guy resisted arrest initially (which we haven’t seen footage to verify that even happened), there is ZERO explanation for how 4 armed cops on one man weren’t in control of the situation without resorting to the brutal knee to neck and throat.
I tend to support police in general and would have had a hard time convicting in some of the previous cases if I were on a jury - but this one? This is a no-brainer. Guilty on 2nd degree murder. Not manslaughter.
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Enough is enough, throw them in the pen and toss the key.
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Agree. This is IMO the absolute worst of the recent officer involved deaths of black men. Even if this guy resisted arrest initially (which we haven’t seen footage to verify that even happened), there is ZERO explanation for how 4 armed cops on one man weren’t in control of the situation without resorting to the brutal knee to neck and throat.
I tend to support police in general and would have had a hard time convicting in some of the previous cases if I were on a jury - but this one? This is a no-brainer. Guilty on 2nd degree murder. Not manslaughter.
I saw some surveillance video this morning showing the cops cuffing Mr Lloyd. He was not resisting. A cop was bending down and *appeared* to be yelling in his face. The cops then marched him towards a squad. Not sure what transpired between the end of that video and the knee on the neck, but it didn't look like resisting during the duration of that particular video.
Edit: found the video:
https://twitter.com/MasterAtWorkINC/status/1265532755011686400?s=09 (https://twitter.com/MasterAtWorkINC/status/1265532755011686400?s=09)
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Thank god for cell cams (and body cams and other forms of surveillance video) is right. It is the only thing in all of these cases that even has the potential to bring police officers to justice.
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Thank god for cell cams (and body cams and other forms of surveillance video) is right. It is the only thing in all of these cases that even has the potential to bring police officers to justice.
Minneapolis is full of cameras. Which makes these cops even more savage. They have to know they are being filmed, both by civilians, private security cameras and municipal cameras.
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How many incidents between police and citizens, or even between citizens themselves, happened similar to this before the advent of convenient mobile cameras where the victims received no justice? Sad to ponder.
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How many incidents between police and citizens, or even between citizens themselves, happened similar to this before the advent of convenient mobile cameras where the victims received no justice? Sad to ponder.
Even since cameras... Ex Rodney king
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I was a public defender. Lots and lots of incidents, but until cameras, no one would publicly believe our clients.
As recently as the 2000’s, (retired this past decade)I had a very good judge tell me that she was glad I had been able to present a clearly credible outside witness on a motion, as otherwise she would have had to find against my client. And that was, as stated, a very good judge.
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Sad stuff. Glad to see all Scoopers agreeing.
Not sure how we can ever end systemic racism, which is sadder still.
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Sad stuff. Glad to see all Scoopers agreeing.
Not sure how we can ever end systemic racism, which is sadder still.
Georgia, now this in Minneapolis of all places.
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Georgia, now this in Minneapolis of all places.
Different issue, different city but...
https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/05/amy-cooper-central-park-racism-video.html
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Different issue, different city but...
https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/05/amy-cooper-central-park-racism-video.html
To me, this is really frightening. Think of how many black men have been killed over the centuries because of privileged white “Karens” saying exactly what she did. Great to see she was fired and she will hopefully be a pariah for years to come.
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The bird watcher from Central Park is trying to make peace.
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To me, this is really frightening. Think of how many black men have been killed over the centuries because of privileged white “Karens” saying exactly what she did. Great to see she was fired and she will hopefully be a pariah for years to come.
Kind of an aside, but how did the term "Karen" become a thing? And basically it just means white chick? Sorry for the probably ignorant quetion.
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Kind of an aside, but how did the term "Karen" become a thing? And basically it just means white chick? Sorry for the probably ignorant quetion.
Its a reddit thing. It did mean an angry white mom that "wanted to speak to your manager" type.
Now it's just a word for a bitchy white woman.
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Its a reddit thing. It did mean an angry white mom that "wanted to speak to your manager" type.
Now it's just a word for a bitchy white woman.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/35pTQFiy14OeA/200.gif)
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To me, this is really frightening. Think of how many black men have been killed over the centuries because of privileged white “Karens” saying exactly what she did. Great to see she was fired and she will hopefully be a pariah for years to come.
I'm a little torn about this.
She obviously behaved terribly and the criticism of her behavior is well deserved. Charges for making a false 911 call seem appropriate as well.
But knowing nothing else about her - and none of us do - it seems that rooting for her to be made a pariah and celebrating her losing her job isn't an especially humane stance. We've all done things we regret, probably most of them involving lousy treatment of others, and fortunately those things don't define most of us for life.
I think we're better off hoping that this becomes a harsh learning experience for her, and others like her, rather than a life-destroying event.
It's worth noting that the victim here is taking a far more charitable stance than many.
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I'm a little torn about this.
She obviously behaved terribly and the criticism of her behavior is well deserved. Charges for making a false 911 call seem appropriate as well.
But knowing nothing else about her - and none of us do - it seems that rooting for her to be made a pariah and celebrating her losing her job isn't an especially humane stance. We've all done things we regret, probably most of them involving lousy treatment of others, and fortunately those things don't define most of us for life.
I think we're better off hoping that this becomes a harsh learning experience for her, and others like her, rather than a life-destroying event.
It's worth noting that the victim here is taking a far more charitable stance than many.
Now imagine if she hadn't been recorded and the police shows up, believes her story, etc...
Quick side story. I don't watch the television program often, "America's Got Talent" often, but this is a 9 minute clip of a black gentleman (Archie Williams) wrongly convicted of a rape and stabbing a white woman, and he spent 36 years in Angola State Prison. The Innocence Project took on his case and finger print evidence cleared him within hours. He wasn't even there. This is worth people's time:
https://twitter.com/AGT/status/1263677683457642501?s=19
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/us/fingerprint-database-archie-williams.html#click=https://t.co/Z4pYMD2sN3
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I'm a little torn about this.
She obviously behaved terribly and the criticism of her behavior is well deserved. Charges for making a false 911 call seem appropriate as well.
But knowing nothing else about her - and none of us do - it seems that rooting for her to be made a pariah and celebrating her losing her job isn't an especially humane stance. We've all done things we regret, probably most of them involving lousy treatment of others, and fortunately those things don't define most of us for life.
I think we're better off hoping that this becomes a harsh learning experience for her, and others like her, rather than a life-destroying event.
It's worth noting that the victim here is taking a far more charitable stance than many.
I agree. I also think that the heightened stress that people are dealing with could be a factor.
She wasn't treating her dog too kindly either.
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Now imagine if she hadn't been recorded and the police shows up, believes her story, etc...
I am imagining that. It's what makes her behavior terrible.
Nobody's justifying or excusing what she did. I'm just suggesting that the social media mob demanding her ruination - including those actually threatening her life - ease up a little and perhaps gain some perspective.
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I am imagining that. It's what makes her behavior terrible.
Nobody's justifying or excusing what she did. I'm just suggesting that the social media mob demanding her ruination - including those actually threatening her life - ease up a little and perhaps gain some perspective.
I don't disagree with that. But for me the main story is the long history of falsely incarcerated black people. People are reacting to that in the moment in a wide variety of ways. That long history is what makes this different than other cases where one would make it simply about what happened here and after. There's more to it than that. She can go through the legal system, make restitution, learn, change behavior, and get other chances, sure. But it's pretty easy to understand just how dangerous her actions were in this situation.
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I am imagining that. It's what makes her behavior terrible.
Nobody's justifying or excusing what she did. I'm just suggesting that the social media mob demanding her ruination - including those actually threatening her life - ease up a little and perhaps gain some perspective.
Obviously the threats of physical violence against her are way over the top. But the rest of it? I don't know ... she was perfectly willing to ruin the life of her "attacker."
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https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/status/1265761509772349440?s=19
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Obviously the threats of physical violence against her are way over the top. But the rest of it? I don't know ... she was perfectly willing to ruin the life of her "attacker."
Might I suggest there's a difference between bad behavior that occurs in the moment during a heated confrontation and dispassionately sitting behind a keyboard advocating/orchestrating the destruction of another person.
Again, nobody is suggesting what she did is OK or ought to be consequence-free. But let's not pretend these things are the same.
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Might I suggest there's a difference between bad behavior that occurs in the moment during a heated confrontation and dispassionately sitting behind a keyboard advocating/orchestrating the destruction of another person.
Again, nobody is suggesting what she did is OK or ought to be consequence-free. But let's not pretend these things are the same.
Very reasonable, Pak.
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I'm with Pakuni on this one. There need to be consequences commensurate with the societal harm, but with exceptions(these cops in MN being a perfect example of an exception) people should be redeemable.
There has to be a way back for her in some capacity. One of the ills of society IMO is that we write people off, especially within social media.
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I'm with Pakuni on this one. There need to be consequences commensurate with the societal harm, but with exceptions(these cops in MN being a perfect example of an exception) people should be redeemable.
There has to be a way back for her in some capacity. One of the ills of society IMO is that we write people off, especially within social media.
And I believe there will be a way back for her. Someone will understand why her employer had to fire her and decide to give her a chance.
But her behavior was atrocious, and I don't think her current employer had any other choice.
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Obviously the threats of physical violence against her are way over the top. But the rest of it? I don't know ... she was perfectly willing to ruin the life of her "attacker."
Black men through the years have been jailed or murdered after a white woman did what she did. From the video, she expressed zero fear. Even while telling police that a blac man was threatening her life, she made no attempt to leave the area.
In other words, she deserves every bad thing that happens to her. We just saw what cops did to a black man who was no threat to anyone. The same could easily have happened here to this innocent man.
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And I believe there will be a way back for her. Someone will understand why her employer had to fire her and decide to give her a chance.
But her behavior was atrocious, and I don't think her current employer had any other choice.
Perfectly stated chick.
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The bird watcher from Central Park is trying to make peace.
Tower
Good for him. He has every right to be angry - much angrier than any of us bystanders. Choosing some kind of forgiveness under those circumstances is as amazing as it is praiseworthy.
The most powerful and inspiring moment in recent US history (IMO) occurred in a Dallas courtroom when Brandt Jean delivered his victim’s impact statement after white police officer Amber Guyger had been convicted for the murder of his brother, Botham Jean. Brandt Jean not only forgave Guyger, he asked the judge for permission to hold Officer Guyger, for a moment, in a forgiving embrace. Guyger sobbing on Jean’s shoulder as he comforted her showed a decency, goodness and humanity that don’t seem to have a place in our dysfunctional society. That dude should have been given the Nobel Peace Prize and the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but he was a footnote in short order - too bad.
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Things are getting ugly in MPLS again tonight. I hope they bring appropriate charges ASAP.
As an aside, my daughter works practically across the street from the police building. Makes a dad kinda nervous....
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Tower
Good for him. He has every right to be angry - much angrier than any of us bystanders. Choosing some kind of forgiveness under those circumstances is as amazing as it is praiseworthy.
The most powerful and inspiring moment in recent US history (IMO) occurred in a Dallas courtroom when Brandt Jean delivered his victim’s impact statement after white police officer Amber Guyger had been convicted for the murder of his brother, Botham Jean. Brandt Jean not only forgave Guyger, he asked the judge for permission to hold Officer Guyger, for a moment, in a forgiving embrace. Guyger sobbing on Jean’s shoulder as he comforted her showed a decency, goodness and humanity that don’t seem to have a place in our dysfunctional society. That dude should have been given the Nobel Peace Prize and the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but he was a footnote in short order - too bad.
I remember that, Lenny. Great stuff.
Also, many of the families of the victims of Dylann Roof, the white supremacist who shot up a black church outside of Charleston, did not think he should get the death penalty and spoke in forgiving tones.
Sometimes, the capacity for compassion in humans surprises me. Not often enough, but sometimes.
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Autozone is burning.
Protesters or more of Bo Ryan's D.Bs?
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Autozone is burning.
Protesters or more of Bo Ryan's D.Bs?
I’m all for making fun of the Grinch but there’s a time and a place and this is neither
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Tower
Good for him. He has every right to be angry - much angrier than any of us bystanders. Choosing some kind of forgiveness under those circumstances is as amazing as it is praiseworthy.
The most powerful and inspiring moment in recent US history (IMO) occurred in a Dallas courtroom when Brandt Jean delivered his victim’s impact statement after white police officer Amber Guyger had been convicted for the murder of his brother, Botham Jean. Brandt Jean not only forgave Guyger, he asked the judge for permission to hold Officer Guyger, for a moment, in a forgiving embrace. Guyger sobbing on Jean’s shoulder as he comforted her showed a decency, goodness and humanity that don’t seem to have a place in our dysfunctional society. That dude should have been given the Nobel Peace Prize and the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but he was a footnote in short order - too bad.
That Presidential Medal of Freedom went to Rush Limbaugh instead.
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I don't know the percentage of good cops vs. bad cops and I'm sure there are a lot of good ones, but what I can share is the advice I gave my son as he moved out on his own: Recognize in life that the most dangerous encounters you will have with people are with law enforcement officers. Be careful what you say, don't do anything, keep your hands visible, make no fast movements, don't reach for anything. An encounter - even by chance - with a bad one in a bad mood and you're dead. The bad ones think they are above or even outside the law and unfortunately most have strong unions protecting them so when they do something wrong it just turns into a paid vacation.
I completely admire Sterling Brown for how he kept his cool during his situation. That's what we all need to do in that situation. It can really happen to anyone.
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https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/status/1265761509772349440?s=19
I'm not telling you how to live your life, but can you just post what the tweet says and save us all a click?
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I don't know the percentage of good cops vs. bad cops and I'm sure there are a lot of good ones, but what I can share is the advice I gave my son as he moved out on his own: Recognize in life that the most dangerous encounters you will have with people are with law enforcement officers. Be careful what you say, don't do anything, keep your hands visible, make no fast movements, don't reach for anything. An encounter - even by chance - with a bad one in a bad mood and you're dead. The bad ones think they are above or even outside the law and unfortunately most have strong unions protecting them so when they do something wrong it just turns into a paid vacation.
I completely admire Sterling Brown for how he kept his cool during his situation. That's what we all need to do in that situation. It can really happen to anyone.
The real trouble is that events like this make the good cops look like bad guys. And it makes them leave the force. Only to be replaced by more questionable guys.
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The real trouble is that events like this make the good cops look like bad guys. And it makes them leave the force. Only to be replaced by more questionable guys.
Maybe ... but just don't kneel on somebody's neck till you kill him or her.
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I don't know the percentage of good cops vs. bad cops and I'm sure there are a lot of good ones, but what I can share is the advice I gave my son as he moved out on his own: Recognize in life that the most dangerous encounters you will have with people are with law enforcement officers. Be careful what you say, don't do anything, keep your hands visible, make no fast movements, don't reach for anything. An encounter - even by chance - with a bad one in a bad mood and you're dead. The bad ones think they are above or even outside the law and unfortunately most have strong unions protecting them so when they do something wrong it just turns into a paid vacation.
I completely admire Sterling Brown for how he kept his cool during his situation. That's what we all need to do in that situation. It can really happen to anyone.
My work used to involve me interacting with cops every day, and the truth is the vast, vast majority are decent people just trying to do their jobs as best as they are able.
But there are too many a-holes on power trips who view much of the public adversarially, rather than those they serve and protect. And, unfortunately, too many within that minority rise to positions of power, usually not within the departments themselves, but in FOPs and other cop associations. And those leaders can make life very difficult for the good cops willing to call out and report on the bad cops, which reinforces the blue wall of silence.
Want to find a bad cop? A good place to look is the FOP leadership.
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Maybe ... but just don't kneel on somebody's neck till you kill him or her.
Wholeheartedly agree. I'm saying this behavior makes the good cops embarrassed to be cops. So they quit.
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Autozone is burning.
Protesters or more of Bo Ryan's D.Bs?
I laughed.
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Just saw something on the twatter that George Lloyd was from Houston and in MPLS for work. If true, that makes his death even worse, as he wouldnt be a "known dude" to the local cops who might have had issues with him in the past (not justifying that this would be ok if it was a local guy), but rather some guy there doing his job.
Again, not sure if this is true.
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I'm not telling you how to live your life, but can you just post what the tweet says and save us all a click?
Apologies. Hard to do on mobile.
Basically comparing/contrasting police response to the George Lloyd protests vs the re-open protests.
Rubber bullets/tear gas/riot gear vs nothing.
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Just saw something on the twatter that George Lloyd was from Houston and in MPLS for work. If true, that makes his death even worse, as he wouldnt be a "known dude" to the local cops who might have had issues with him in the past (not justifying that this would be ok if it was a local guy), but rather some guy there doing his job.
Again, not sure if this is true.
He moved up there for work 4 or 5 years ago.
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Rumor is downtown, north loop and NE will be the hot spots tonight. Anyone hearing the same?
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Just saw something on the twatter that George Lloyd was from Houston and in MPLS for work. If true, that makes his death even worse, as he wouldnt be a "known dude" to the local cops who might have had issues with him in the past (not justifying that this would be ok if it was a local guy), but rather some guy there doing his job.
Again, not sure if this is true.
Grew up wit ex-NBA baller, Stephen Jackson, hey?
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What happened to George Floyd was abhorrent and unacceptable. I hope justice is harsh and swift.
But rioting, looting, and burning down businesses and homes will not bring any measure of justice to the situation. It just punishes the owners and employees of those businesses who had nothing to do with George Floyd and who are dealing with an already difficult business climate thanks to Covid. By all means protest, demand change and seek justice, but violence and destruction against innocent people solves nothing and just creates most despair.
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What happened to George Floyd was abhorrent and unacceptable. I hope justice is harsh and swift.
But rioting, looting, and burning down businesses and homes will not bring any measure of justice to the situation. It just punishes the owners and employees of those businesses who had nothing to do with George Floyd and who are dealing with an already difficult business climate thanks to Covid. By all means protest, demand change and seek justice, but violence and destruction against innocent people solves nothing and just creates most despair.
Not only that, if the 1968 riots in Chicago in the aftermath of the murder of Dr. King were any indication, once the rioting, looting and arson are over, the businesses say goodbye to the damaged neighborhoods. The folks that do the criminal acts are the folks that are most damaging their community.
In Chicago's case, the one thriving merchant community serving the African-American community on the west side still has not recovered, some 52 years later.
Nobody accepts what the police officer did. But gratuitous violence and lashing out is no answer either.
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Not only that, if the 1968 riots in Chicago in the aftermath of the murder of Dr. King were any indication, once the rioting, looting and arson are over, the businesses say goodbye to the damaged neighborhoods. The folks that do the criminal acts are the folks that are most damaging their community.
In Chicago's case, the one thriving merchant community serving the African-American community on the west side still has not recovered, some 52 years later.
Nobody accepts what the police officer did. But gratuitous violence and lashing out is no answer either.
White flight and redlining didn't exactly help The neighborhoods either. Let's not act like they burned down a neighborhood that was essentially pleasentville.
That being said you're right the reaction to protest is good but rioting, looting, clashing with cops is only going to worsen the situation. Unfortunately there's a lot of hot headed individuals in the moment and not a lot of forethought.
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Rumor is downtown, north loop and NE will be the hot spots tonight. Anyone hearing the same?
I have definitely heard downtown. Not sure about the other areas.
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Got to love Teh Onion take.
https://www.theonion.com/protestors-criticized-for-looting-businesses-without-fo-1843735351?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email
Protestors Criticized For Looting Businesses Without Forming Private Equity Firm First
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He moved up there for work 4 or 5 years ago.
don't trust the twatter.
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Rioting, looting, setting things on fire. Preposterously stupid. You're hurting all the wrong people, and frankly, setting your cause back.
Especially torching police cars .. those cars are expensive and the cops didn't magic them up from somewhere. They used YOUR money to buy them, and will use more of YOUR money to replace the ones you set on fire. Well done.
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One thing for people to keep in mind, is that some of the people looting, rioting, etc...in these situations are not from the local area. There are people that travel long distances to take advantage of these situations.
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One thing for people to keep in mind, is that some of the people looting, rioting, etc...in these situations are not from the local area. There are people that travel long distances to take advantage of these situations.
source?
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Rioting, looting, setting things on fire. Preposterously stupid. You're hurting all the wrong people, and frankly, setting your cause back.
Especially torching police cars .. those cars are expensive and the cops didn't magic them up from somewhere. They used YOUR money to buy them, and will use more of YOUR money to replace the ones you set on fire. Well done.
Herd Da Bay iz wear itz goin' down, hey?
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source?
CNN has them shipped in.
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source?
I heard that today on MPR news, with the statement attributed to “local officials.”
I don’t know how reliable the “local officials” are, but MPR usually reports what it hears accurately.
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50+ buildings damaged
16 buildings burned
1 person killed
Rocks/bricks being thrown onto interstate highways from overpasses
Metro Transit has stopped all services and a lot of businesses have boarded up their windows in anticipation of a repeat tonight.
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source?
That’s the way it has been in other past higher profile situations. It’s a mix of things, people, geographies. Here’s a random example of Ferguson where half of the people arrested on a given day were not from either the Metro area or the state. It’s a bad apple thing more than a geographic thing. There will be locals, and people from elsewhere. There are bad apples everywhere and sometimes they travel. And it certainly takes away from the many more peaceful protestors in these situations.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/more-than-50-arrested-at-ferguson-police-station-on-moral-monday-other-events-elsewhere/article_c1752132-9731-542e-8525-1885fae7fd10.amp.html
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In Chicago's case, the one thriving merchant community serving the African-American community on the west side still has not recovered, some 52 years later.
The blacks who were products of CHA’s remarkably racist Henry Hoerner Homes and Rockwell Gardens burned down businesses owned by white’s following Dr. King’s murder.
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For whatever reason, auto stores are really taking a pounding in the looting. I’m not trying to be funny, just weird to me.
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At least 2 of the cops were known to be bad cops, including the shooter who casually had his hand in his pocket while murdering a man in cold blood. They had no business being on the force.
“Good” cops who look the other way and fail to speak out are bad cops. Sadly, very few guys are willing to speak up. Their fear of reprisal is stronger than their sense of decency.
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Rioting, looting, setting things on fire. Preposterously stupid. You're hurting all the wrong people, and frankly, setting your cause back.
Especially torching police cars .. those cars are expensive and the cops didn't magic them up from somewhere. They used YOUR money to buy them, and will use more of YOUR money to replace the ones you set on fire. Well done.
Worst of all, the tapes I’ve seen indicate a serious lack of social distancing by the protesters. Some Scoopers call that terrorism.
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As a white male who has never gone through what minorities go through every day, I won’t talk bad about people for reacting angrily or violently. How many times do they have to watch someone who looks like them get murdered without proper justice being served? How long until they or one of their loved ones are the ones being choked or shot while unarmed? If it’s a one time thing, sure, it’s an overreaction. But it happens over and over. I’m sure the frustration and anger builds up. It’s easy for me as a white male to sit behind a computer screen and say how they’re reacting isn’t helping. But the reality is nothing has helped and, sadly, nothing will help. So maybe if I were in there shoes I’d need to take out some frustration, too.
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Worst of all, the tapes I’ve seen indicate a serious lack of social distancing by the protesters. Some Scoopers call that terrorism.
Who hurt you, Lenny?
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As a white male who has never gone through what minorities go through every day, I won’t talk bad about people for reacting angrily or violently. How many times do they have to watch someone who looks like them get murdered without proper justice being served? How long until they or one of their loved ones are the ones being choked or shot while unarmed? If it’s a one time thing, sure, it’s an overreaction. But it happens over and over. I’m sure the frustration and anger builds up. It’s easy for me as a white male to sit behind a computer screen and say how they’re reacting isn’t helping. But the reality is nothing has helped and, sadly, nothing will help. So maybe if I were in there shoes I’d need to take out some frustration, too.
I ponder the same thing. Maybe their learned helplessness and vulnerability leads to overreaction and irrational acts in a crisis.
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As a white male who has never gone through what minorities go through every day, I won’t talk bad about people for reacting angrily or violently. How many times do they have to watch someone who looks like them get murdered without proper justice being served? How long until they or one of their loved ones are the ones being choked or shot while unarmed? If it’s a one time thing, sure, it’s an overreaction. But it happens over and over. I’m sure the frustration and anger builds up. It’s easy for me as a white male to sit behind a computer screen and say how they’re reacting isn’t helping. But the reality is nothing has helped and, sadly, nothing will help. So maybe if I were in there shoes I’d need to take out some frustration, too.
So when people abuse their children do you defend them if they were once abused? This incident was awful - anyone who isn’t outraged lacks humanity. But using injustice to justify further injustice isn’t (thankfully) a “solution” that most people (black, white or other) endorse. If you were “in their shoes” and acted like this small minority are acting you’d be wrong, too.
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Who hurt you, Lenny?
Pakuni
Sorry the sarcasm eluded you. Should have used teal, I guess.
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So when people abuse their children do you defend them if they were once abused? This incident was awful - anyone who isn’t outraged lacks humanity. But using injustice to justify further injustice isn’t (thankfully) a “solution” that most people (black, white or other) endorse. If you were “in their shoes” and acted like this small minority are acting you’d be wrong, too.
I don’t see his post as defending them as much as trying to understand them and their frustration. That certainly is what I am trying to do.
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Pakuni
Sorry the sarcasm eluded you. Should have used teal, I guess.
Given recent posts, I'm starting to wonder if we have different definitions of sarcasm.
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The Third Precinct building now engulfed in flames, and the police seem to have totally disappeared from the area. And the fire department is no longer responding to the fires.
Minneapolis is burning, and there is no law enforcement presence. Wtf?
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I don’t see his post as defending them as much as trying to understand them and their frustration. That certainly is what I am trying to do.
Most of the African American population gets it - rioting, looting, etc., is not an effective way to vent one’s frustration, no matter how legitimate and understandable that frustration is. The people who are entitled to the most anger and outrage (the victim’s family) have asked for calm. People of all races are united in their support of this victim. Will riots and violence help or hinder the pursuit of justice going forward? I’m all about trying to understand people’s behavior and the mitigating circumstances that precipitated it. Seeing that video was agonizing and heartbreaking. And when it happens in your community to someone who could be your Dad, brother or son it is so, so much worse. It is beyond awful. But rioters (depending how bad this gets) will only give cover to the racists. One tragedy on top of another. Opportunity lost, at least that’s my fear.
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So when people abuse their children do you defend them if they were once abused? This incident was awful - anyone who isn’t outraged lacks humanity. But using injustice to justify further injustice isn’t (thankfully) a “solution” that most people (black, white or other) endorse. If you were “in their shoes” and acted like this small minority are acting you’d be wrong, too.
I will try to be empathetic towards them, yes. I haven’t gone through what they’ve gone through, so I don’t know how I’d react or behave in different situations. I’m glad you know you’d be a better person than those people though. Makes me feel better about myself for having graduated from a place that graduated such great people like yourself.
Anyways, this is one good way to turn a peaceful protest into a not-so-peaceful-protest.
https://www.facebook.com/799539910084929/posts/3185804524791777/?vh=e&d=n
But the protestors should show some restraint, so...
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As a white male who has never gone through what minorities go through every day, I won’t talk bad about people for reacting angrily or violently. How many times do they have to watch someone who looks like them get murdered without proper justice being served? How long until they or one of their loved ones are the ones being choked or shot while unarmed? If it’s a one time thing, sure, it’s an overreaction. But it happens over and over. I’m sure the frustration and anger builds up. It’s easy for me as a white male to sit behind a computer screen and say how they’re reacting isn’t helping. But the reality is nothing has helped and, sadly, nothing will help. So maybe if I were in there shoes I’d need to take out some frustration, too.
Many of the businesses destroyed and being destroyed are minority owned small businesses. As a white male behind a computer screen, does that bother you at all?
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The Third Precinct building now engulfed in flames, and the police seem to have totally disappeared from the area. And the fire department is no longer responding to the fires.
Minneapolis is burning, and there is no law enforcement presence. Wtf?
What would you do? What happens if a few protesters/rioters or a few cops or firemen end up dead? Sooner or later, property will have to be protected. Sounds like the mayor has decided “not yet”.
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Many of the businesses destroyed and being destroyed are minority owned small businesses. As a white male behind a computer screen, does that bother you at all?
Sure. Would that be happening without a black man being suffocated while handcuffed and unarmed?
I’m honestly embarrassed that this is actually the concern here. What would you like people to do? They protest peacefully like in Charleston, South Carolina and they will still see the white man who shot up a black church arrested peacefully and taken to Burger King on his way to the police station because he’s hungry while the unarmed black man gets choked to death without even resisting arrest. Clearly peaceful protests do nothing. So do what? Just accept it? Do what the cops tell you to no matter what? And get murdered anyway?
I’ll step away from this one for the night. If you can’t see that redirecting the discussion to how poorly these minorities are acting towards other minorities rather than discussing what 4 cops did to an unarmed, handcuffed black man then you’re part of the problem. Don’t want violent protests? Don’t drive through the streets pepper spraying peaceful protests of a murdered minority.
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Of course the rioting, looting, violence and destruction of property is wrong.
But hurting their cause? Nobody horrified by that video of George Floyd being killed sees the rioting and thinks, "You know, maybe George Floyd deserved to die."
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I will try to be empathetic towards them, yes. I haven’t gone through what they’ve gone through, so I don’t know how I’d react or behave in different situations. I’m glad you know you’d be a better person than those people though. Makes me feel better about myself for having graduated from a place that graduated such great people like yourself.
I grew up during the Civil Rights movement. I saw MLK make a lot of progress while others who pushed hate and defended violence got nowhere.
The most heinous events can become teachable moments - or they can be used as an excuse for righteous hate and vengeance.
My Marquette education (and a long time on the planet) inform my thinking that MLK’s way was the better of the two options. Your experiences (at MU and in life) lead you down a different path. That (IMO) is unfortunate.
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Worst of all, the tapes I’ve seen indicate a serious lack of social distancing by the protesters. Some Scoopers call that terrorism.
Uncalled for and cruel.
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The rioting is awful. It doesn’t fix any grievance.
But would a peaceful protest fix anything? Have the last 60 years of protests fixed anything.
This is about corrup police. Period. Corruption at the top. Corruption by the police union. Corruption by “good” cops who look the other way from the creeps that commit this abuse.
Top that off with a racist in the White House who gives a wink to racist acts and there is no reason to think things will get better.
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What would you do? What happens if a few protesters/rioters or a few cops or firemen end up dead? Sooner or later, property will have to be protected. Sounds like the mayor has decided “not yet”.
I don’t have all the answers, but it seems there should be a middle ground between martial law and no law. Even the experts on the news programs are saying they have never seen law enforcement totally disappear in a situation like this.
Is the city going to pay property owners for damage that occurs after they abandoned the area?
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I’m all for protesting, and enough was enough more than long ago regarding police brutality against African Americans, but the National Guard or Army has to come in immediately. If Police and Emergency Response is seemingly giving up, how is the rioting and looting going to stop? People have every right to be pissed off, and express that, but more potential loss of life or more loss of people’s livelihoods, isn’t going to help bring justice for Mr. Floyd.
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Sure. Would that be happening without a black man being suffocated while handcuffed and unarmed?
I’m honestly embarrassed that this is actually the concern here. What would you like people to do? They protest peacefully like in Charleston, South Carolina and they will still see the white man who shot up a black church arrested peacefully and taken to Burger King on his way to the police station because he’s hungry while the unarmed black man gets choked to death without even resisting arrest. Clearly peaceful protests do nothing. So do what? Just accept it? Do what the cops tell you to no matter what? And get murdered anyway?
I’ll step away from this one for the night. If you can’t see that redirecting the discussion to how poorly these minorities are acting towards other minorities rather than discussing what 4 cops did to an unarmed, handcuffed black man then you’re part of the problem. Don’t want violent protests? Don’t drive through the streets pepper spraying peaceful protests of a murdered minority.
Justifying property destruction and further violence against people who have nothing to do with George Floyd’s abhorrent murder won’t solve anything. It only perpetuates misery to more people, many of whom are in a tough business climate because of covid to begin with.
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I don’t have all the answers, but it seems there should be a middle ground between martial law and no law. Even the experts on the news programs are saying they have never seen law enforcement totally disappear in a situation like this.
Is the city going to pay property owners for damage that occurs after they abandoned the area?
Goooo
You either tell the cops to defend property or not. If they do, people trying to destroy that property may get hurt. If the situation escalates, some (rioters and cops) might end up dead. How does that play with the experts on the news? The last thing this situation needs right now is more casualties. For better or for worse, I guess the mayor has decided to retreat and hope the violence dies of natural causes. Only one thing certain - any and every decision made will be widely criticized.
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Goooo
You either tell the cops to defend property or not. If they do, people trying to destroy that property may get hurt. If the situation escalates, some (rioters and cops) might end up dead. How does that play with the experts on the news? The last thing this situation needs right now is more casualties. For better or for worse, I guess the mayor has decided to retreat and hope the violence dies of natural causes. Only one thing certain - any and every decision made will be widely criticized.
But how does completely abandoning the area prevent casualties? There are widespread fires, people lighting fireworks in a big crowd, even people threatening CNN reporters covering the event. If there aren’t any more casualties, it will just be dumb luck.
And as I said, experienced officials (specifically the DC Police Chief) say they have never seen a whole area just abandoned like this. That isn’t me - that’s the police chief of one of the largest metro areas in the US.
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I’ve gotta wonder. Would it have eased tensions if the police had arrested these four cops? By them doing nothing, did people get the message that it is business as usual -that there are no consequences for killing blacks?
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nm
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The city is now warning that there may be severed gas lines around the burning police building. And CNN reporters were saying they could smell the gas so they left the immediate area. Yet there is still no police or fire department presence.
If the gas line explodes, it could be catastrophic.
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It can always get worse. The Prez just played to his base by using the “thugs” word. Of course he attacked the radical left mayor and said he will send in the national guard to start shooting looters.
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I grew up during the Civil Rights movement. I saw MLK make a lot of progress while others who pushed hate and defended violence got nowhere.
The most heinous events can become teachable moments - or they can be used as an excuse for righteous hate and vengeance.
My Marquette education (and a long time on the planet) inform my thinking that MLK’s way was the better of the two options. Your experiences (at MU and in life) lead you down a different path. That (IMO) is unfortunate.
"I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."
Dr. King certainly didn't condone rioting, but he understood why it happened and recognized that the only way to stop it was to address the injustice that caused the riot in the first place.
Rioters are committing crimes. They should be held accountable. But I would hate to see us become distracted from the greater injustice by focusing on the rioters rather than the murderer who sparked them.
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I’m all for protesting, and enough was enough more than long ago regarding police brutality against African Americans, but the National Guard or Army has to come in immediately. If Police and Emergency Response is seemingly giving up, how is the rioting and looting going to stop? People have every right to be pissed off, and express that, but more potential loss of life or more loss of people’s livelihoods, isn’t going to help bring justice for Mr. Floyd.
One of my closest friends of a decade plus is African American, and he’s been really stressed about this all, as you can imagine. He was the catalyst of one of my first stark encounters of different treatments. Long story short, he, myself, and another of his college friends (also AA) were walking in Ravenswood (where he grew up) late on week night after going to a party. CPD squad car pulled up, stopped us, and rather insistently pulled them aside for questioning about some “complaint”. Both of them were well dressed, polite and cooperative, and still patted down against the car. One officer was pretty insistent on me continuing on my way and aggressively shot down any questions I had. His partner was more reasonable but if he was of the same mind, I definitely would have been run off to let them do what they wanted to do. It was blatant unnecessary profiling and normally I have a quite high view of CPD.
Regardless, I’m quite open to his rational viewpoints of this sort of thing as it’s his personal struggle. Masters degree, lives in a beautiful high rise in Gold Coast with his fiancée, does very well financially, and he still has a perpetual fear that these things could happen to him. But where we agreed is the reaction to George Floyd had been remarkable consistent. Not that my Twitter feed is filled with Blue Lives Matter sort of presences, but it has enough diverse vantage points where I normally see the most extreme reactions retweeted with a “WTF” sort of response. There was far less here than I’ve seen with many other situations like this. It was almost uniformly “this is horrible, indefensible, etc...”. Which is great.
But now, the looting and the rioting gives people a reason to push back and deflect and redirect. The true message gets lost. The purpose of the protests (violent or otherwise, I thought they were more than merited until last night) gets muddied. And the other factor is, the people doing the vast majority of vandalism, or looting Target, or burning down Autozone aren’t the truly passionate ones in the first place, they are agents of chaos. Much like the most offensive and vocal hecklers or azzholes at a basketball game aren’t true fans of the team in the first place. And those toxic people draw attention away from what truly matters and give the opposition, who may have been silent with no leg to stand on, a reason to get vocal again. And that’s truly unfortunate.
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Rioters are committing crimes. They should be held accountable. But I would hate to see us become distracted from the greater injustice by focusing on the rioters rather than the murderer who sparked them.
Agreed.
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One of my closest friends of a decade plus is African American, and he’s been really stressed about this all, as you can imagine. He was the catalyst of one of my first stark encounters of different treatments. Long story short, he, myself, and another of his college friends (also AA) were walking in Ravenswood (where he grew up) late on week night after going to a party. CPD squad car pulled up, stopped us, and rather insistently pulled them aside for questioning about some “complaint”. Both of them were well dressed, polite and cooperative, and still patted down against the car. One officer was pretty insistent on me continuing on my way and aggressively shot down any questions I had. His partner was more reasonable but if he was of the same mind, I definitely would have been run off to let them do what they wanted to do. It was blatant unnecessary profiling and normally I have a quite high view of CPD.
Regardless, I’m quite open to his rational viewpoints of this sort of thing as it’s his personal struggle. Masters degree, lives in a beautiful high rise in Gold Coast with his fiancée, does very well financially, and he still has a perpetual fear that these things could happen to him. But where we agreed is the reaction to George Floyd had been remarkable consistent. Not that my Twitter feed is filled with Blue Lives Matter sort of presences, but it has enough diverse vantage points where I normally see the most extreme reactions retweeted with a “WTF” sort of response. There was far less here than I’ve seen with many other situations like this. It was almost uniformly “this is horrible, indefensible, etc...”. Which is great.
But now, the looting and the rioting gives people a reason to push back and deflect and redirect. The true message gets lost. The purpose of the protests (violent or otherwise, I thought they were more than merited until last night) gets muddied. And the other factor is, the people doing the vast majority of vandalism, or looting Target, or burning down Autozone aren’t the truly passionate ones in the first place, they are agents of chaos. Much like the most offensive and vocal hecklers or azzholes at a basketball game aren’t true fans of the team in the first place. And those toxic people draw attention away from what truly matters and give the opposition, who may have been silent with no leg to stand on, a reason to get vocal again. And that’s truly unfortunate.
What opposition? Those cops should be behind bars already and the looters arrested as well. There are no sides here.
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This is how the American experiment though not perfect should work.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/08/ferguson-missouri-riots-5-years-since-shooting-race-tensions-worse/1952853001/
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I don't like rioting either. So maybe prominant black athletes should lead a peaceful protest by kneeling during the national anthem? Or wearing an "I can't breathe" shirt during warm-ups before a game.
What do you think of those ideas? I'm sure they will be well received right?
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I don't like rioting either. So maybe prominant black athletes should lead a peaceful protest by kneeling during the national anthem? Or wearing an "I can't breathe" shirt during warm-ups before a game.
What do you think of those ideas? I'm sure they will be well received right?
Bingo. I wouldn’t be one to riot. But I’m also not someone who has to worry that I’ll be choked to death even if I do exactly what the police ask me to do. Or chased down by non-police and shot to death for my skin color. They’ve tried. It doesn’t do anything. So while I don’t condone it, I can see why they’re angry, scared, sad. Peaceful protests are met with pepper spray. What’s left to do? Nothing changes. So I can see why people need to take out their anger.
I remember all the outrage over the riots from...the Giants winning the World Series? Wait, nope. Nevermind. There was none of that.
If don’t want riots stop murdering black men who are cooperating with police. It shouldn’t be that difficult. If police don’t want to be put in harms way, don’t choke a guy who’s telling you he can’t breathe while you have 3 cops kneeling on him while he’s in handcuffs. Or listen to their peaceful protests. Or let them peacefully protest. Or treat them the same way white men with assault rifles are treated at state capitols.
And, apparently, stop winning sports games. But we don’t care about those riots.
Seriously, it’s not THAT hard. Police should not be murdering people. And when they are they should be treated as such, murderers. I’d say someday there won’t be a need for these riots, but sadly that day won’t come in my lifetime.
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Injustice met with injustice since justice isn't being met with justice.
Arrest the former officers when this happened and there probably isn't riots.
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"I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."
Dr. King certainly didn't condone rioting, but he understood why it happened and recognized that the only way to stop it was to address the injustice that caused the riot in the first place.
Rioters are committing crimes. They should be held accountable. But I would hate to see us become distracted from the greater injustice by focusing on the rioters rather than the murderer who sparked them.
We all should respect the rule of law, but when the rule of law does not respect us we all lose and we the people should hold our elected officials responsible. Why has the Minneapolis DA not charged these guys already, where is the Mayor? These are the people I think would and should agree with your stated position above. I don't understand the foot dragging. I know we don't agree on many things but the black community has every right to be angry. This is wrong on so many levels. If these guys were not cops they would be arrested already.
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We all should respect the rule of law, but when the rule of law does not respect us we all lose and we the people should hold our elected officials responsible. Why has the Minneapolis DA not charged these guys already, where is the Mayor? These are the people I think would and should agree with your stated position above. I don't understand the foot dragging. I know we don't agree on many things but the black community has every right to be angry. This is wrong on so many levels. If these guys were not cops they would be arrested already.
Your last sentence is intriguing and a good point. I was just reading a letter by a former Federal prosecutor saying not to expect arrests for months so the DA can build a case but you're right they'd be behind bars already hoping for credit for time served if they were normal citizens
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Re: AutoZone...
https://twitter.com/javimorillo/status/1266142878889316353?s=19
Hmm.. that sure looks like a strange situation for a white guy to start the damage.
The plot thickens, although the source is questionable:
https://twitter.com/GypsyEyedBeauty/status/1266164431584714753?s=19
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And now a black CNN reporter was arrested while the white CNN reporter was not while both covered the protests.
CNN President had to call the governor to get him released.
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Re: AutoZone...
https://twitter.com/javimorillo/status/1266142878889316353?s=19
Hmm.. that sure looks like a strange situation for a white guy to start the damage.
The plot thickens, although the source is questionable:
https://twitter.com/GypsyEyedBeauty/status/1266164431584714753?s=19
I know its twitter, but if that is true... my Lord.
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Re: AutoZone...
https://twitter.com/javimorillo/status/1266142878889316353?s=19
Hmm.. that sure looks like a strange situation for a white guy to start the damage.
The plot thickens, although the source is questionable:
https://twitter.com/GypsyEyedBeauty/status/1266164431584714753?s=19
Local anarchist? Jerk trying to defame the protests? What do you guys think?
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JB was right.
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I know its twitter, but if that is true... my Lord.
I don't buy the identification of the guy by his "ex-wife", but the video is incontrovertible.
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Local anarchist? Jerk trying to defame the protests? What do you guys think?
*puts on tin foil hat*
Police create destruction in the face of peaceful riots the same way that the Hong Kong police dressed in street clothes did. This is done because the police force has extremely racist elements who want to shift the narrative away from the murder towards what you see today. These guys will never be arrested. As with most politicians, the police will not allow a crisis to go to waste. If the police officers feel unsafe and can point to these sorts of events as dangerous, they can ask for increased pay and benefits. Not to mention they get cool new military style toys to play with because the budget for law enforcement will increase as a result.
*takes off tin foil hat*
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JB was right.
You can see our institutions ripping apart right in front of our eyes.
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And now a black CNN reporter was arrested while the white CNN reporter was not while both covered the protests.
CNN President had to call the governor to get him released.
Appalling. Cops stand aside all night for rioters and looters, then show up the next morning and arrest a TV reporter and camera crew.
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1266315061221613569
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I don't buy the identification of the guy by his "ex-wife", but the video is incontrovertible.
Incontrovertible what? Proof that white people can be vandals also?
Think about how insulting this is. The insinuation is that all it takes is a white guy to dress like Darth Vader, carry an umbrella and break a few windows at Autozone to spark massive riots, looting and destruction in black neighborhoods.
That's no less racist than conspiracies from the groyper crowd claiming George Soros is behind this.
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Appalling. Cops stand aside all night for rioters and looters, then show up the next morning and arrest a TV reporter and camera crew.
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1266315061221613569
Yep. The MPD gets a failing grade for its performance thus far. The initial killing. The abandonment of a neighborhood on fire. The arrest and detainment of a black reporter and camera crew on air for doing their jobs while showing their press credentials.
Many of the protesters went too far. The guy on video breaking the Auto Zone windows went too far and clearly should be arrested. But the MPD failed the city on so many levels....
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Appalling. Cops stand aside all night for rioters and looters, then show up the next morning and arrest a TV reporter and camera crew.
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1266315061221613569
The Bland statement they gave this AM doesn't help either
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"I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."
Dr. King certainly didn't condone rioting, but he understood why it happened and recognized that the only way to stop it was to address the injustice that caused the riot in the first place.
Rioters are committing crimes. They should be held accountable. But I would hate to see us become distracted from the greater injustice by focusing on the rioters rather than the murderer who sparked them.
https://twitter.com/OfficialMLK3/status/1266040838628560898
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https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1266342997077131265?s=19
Marco Rubio with an excellent tweet.
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https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1266342997077131265?s=19
Marco Rubio with an excellent tweet.
Agreed. Marco nails it.
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https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1266342997077131265?s=19
Marco Rubio with an excellent tweet.
Well said.
On the other hand,. the president wants to send in the military to extrajudicially kill suspected looters. That'll ease tensions, for sure.
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Well said.
On the other hand,. the president wants to send in the military to extrajudicially kill suspected looters. That'll ease tensions, for sure.
He'll never do it. It's just red meat for his base.
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My brother is a policeman in the state of Washington and a damn good one who keeps a level head and treats people with respect (at least from what I've seen when riding along with him). I hate to see other law enforcement that make him and others like him look bad.
Just an incredible couple of weeks of bad judgment by the police force in the Twin Cities. From the negligent homicide, arresting a journalist trying to cooperate with officers, beating on people who clearly are trying to leave the protest area already, just an incredible lack of judgment by so many in authority. I get it, they have a horrible job right now, but their decisions have been so poor, it's crazy to think these guys have ever had any training at all. It's so bad, it's almost unfixable. Maybe the National Guard will fair better in controlling things.
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Your last sentence is intriguing and a good point. I was just reading a letter by a former Federal prosecutor saying not to expect arrests for months so the DA can build a case but you're right they'd be behind bars already hoping for credit for time served if they were normal citizens
See, that is the problem. To the black community our judicial system does not even treat them as "normal citizens"; they have always been something less. I hate to say it but Minneapolis is a sanctuary city. Where do their black citizens go to find sanctuary?
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I don't like rioting either. So maybe prominant black athletes should lead a peaceful protest by kneeling during the national anthem? Or wearing an "I can't breathe" shirt during warm-ups before a game.
What do you think of those ideas? I'm sure they will be well received right?
It would just give the racist-in-chief and his followers another reason to do their hateful, racist thing.
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I’ve gotta wonder. Would it have eased tensions if the police had arrested these four cops? By them doing nothing, did people get the message that it is business as usual -that there are no consequences for killing blacks?
Very much agree. They should have arrested them immediately. I get it .. they don't want to over or under-charge, but charges can be amended.
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It would just give the racist-in-chief and his followers another reason to do their hateful, racist thing.
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. You don't like the president? Get da fuq outta here. I had no idea! ::) ::) ::)
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https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1266342997077131265?s=19
Marco Rubio with an excellent tweet.
Garbage. Rubio actively supports a racist in the White House. Merely a case of CYA.
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Very much agree. They should have arrested them immediately. I get it .. they don't want to over or under-charge, but charges can be amended.
Just finished watching the presser with the Governor. He wasn't even asked that question. About 40-45 minutes in the state police comissionser was asked why they were not in custody. He responded by saying they have to follow all proper procedures before an arrest and charges can be brought; yet some looters were arrested. I wonder, were all the proper procedures followed for them.
There is a two tier justice system; one for those in government and one for the rest of us.
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Just finished watching the presser with the Governor. He wasn't even asked that question. About 40-45 minutes in the state police comissionser was asked why they were not in custody. He responded by saying they have to follow all proper procedures before an arrest and charges can be brought; yet some looters were arrested. I wonder, were all the proper procedures followed for them.
There is a two tier justice system; one for those in government and one for the rest of us.
Once you make arrests, the four cops have Miranda rights, making them less likely to talk and possibly cut a deal (namely the three who didn't kneel on George Floyd's neck). So I can understand the slow pace.
But it's striking that the same state police taking their time with that case are willing to arrest a TV reporter on the spot, supposedly for not obeying their orders when the tape shows he was asking them where they wanted him to move. Quite the disparate treatment.
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Just reported that the one cop has been arrested.
...according to Fox News.
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I'm going to ask a bunch of dumb questions, because I simply don't know the answers here.
-The entire process of the phone call to the police about the alleged forgery of the $20 bill, to the police showing up, Floyd being suffocated to death, his being pronounced dead...that time table can't be more than 90 minutes, right?
-Where I'm going with this is, with the body cams, the eyewitness cams, a sworn statement from everyone...what here would take a relatively long time (say weeks/months) to issue an arrest warrant?
I guess what I'm getting at is, it wasn't like this was a long drawn out event, the physical evidence seems fairly isolated, there can't be more than a dozen people that would need to be interviewed (?).
I'm sure there's people here that understand the judicial process way better than I do, and I understand the state wants to make sure they have i's dotted, t's crossed correctly before filing charges, but should it take weeks/months in actuality for charges to come up?
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Once you make arrests, the four cops have Miranda rights, making them less likely to talk and possibly cut a deal (namely the three who didn't kneel on George Floyd's neck). So I can understand the slow pace.
But it's striking that the same state police taking their time with that case are willing to arrest a TV reporter on the spot, supposedly for not obeying their orders when the tape shows he was asking them where they wanted him to move. Quite the disparate treatment.
Seems like the right balance from the beginning would have been to arrest the one cop, and announce that the other three were being investigated. That probably would have prevented a lot of the violence in the past couple of nights.
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Nevermind me previous post, Chauvin has been arrested.
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Just reported that the one cop has been arrested.
...according to Fox News.
It’s true, per MPR news.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/29/george-floyd
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It’s true, per MPR news.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/29/george-floyd
Yes, here on ABC as well.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/dangerous-protests-erupt-overnight-george-floyds-death-minneapolis/story?id=70924047&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_heads_hero_live_hero_hed
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I'm going to ask a bunch of dumb questions, because I simply don't know the answers here.
These aren't dumb questions.
Two reasons I can think of for the slow movement:
First, once you make an arrest, your suspect now has Miranda rights. A suspect who has and who exercises his rights (as these cops surely will) is less likely to provide information and cooperate with the investigation ... and maybe even slip up and say something incriminating.
Second, this obviously will be a massively high profile case and the defendants will have outstanding legal representation. This isn't some poor black guy off the street who's going to end up with an overworked and possibly underskilled public defender whose primary task will be to cut a decent deal as expeditiously as possible.
Best to take your time and get it right than hurry things up for the sake of the public, make a mistake and provide the defense with reasonable doubt.
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These aren't dumb questions.
Two reasons I can think of for the slow movement:
First, once you make an arrest, your suspect now has Miranda rights. A suspect who has and who exercises his rights (as these cops surely will) is less likely to provide information and cooperate with the investigation ... and maybe even slip up and say something incriminating.
Second, this obviously will be a massively high profile case and the defendants will have outstanding legal representation. This isn't some poor black guy off the street who's going to end up with an overworked and possibly underskilled public defender whose primary task will be to cut a decent deal as expeditiously as possible.
Best to take your time and get it right than hurry things up for the sake of the public, make a mistake and provide the defense with reasonable doubt.
So will the taxpayers be paying their legal fees? Will the trial be in Minneapolis or will a change in venue be granted?
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These aren't dumb questions.
Two reasons I can think of for the slow movement:
First, once you make an arrest, your suspect now has Miranda rights. A suspect who has and who exercises his rights (as these cops surely will) is less likely to provide information and cooperate with the investigation ... and maybe even slip up and say something incriminating.
Second, this obviously will be a massively high profile case and the defendants will have outstanding legal representation. This isn't some poor black guy off the street who's going to end up with an overworked and possibly underskilled public defender whose primary task will be to cut a decent deal as expeditiously as possible.
Best to take your time and get it right than hurry things up for the sake of the public, make a mistake and provide the defense with reasonable doubt.
Thanks, makes a ton of sense now. I had just read somewhere on Twitter that they were waiting for autopsy results to come in as well, which actually never occurred to me, and that certainly is a big part of the process here that seemed obvious but I never thought of.
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So will the taxpayers be paying his legal fees?
Good question. I imagine he'll try, as he was a city employee acting within his official capacity when this occurred. However, the city will fight that in court, likely arguing that kneeling on a person's neck was outside official policy and therefore the city should not be responsible for his defense. It'll probably end up in court. Just my speculation.
Edit: For all I know, this may be addressed in the CBA. That wouldn't necessarily prevent litigation over it, but it may be a determining factor.
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I know the city of Minneapolis had to arrest the one officer that was doing the kneeling to show that they're doing something about this, but the officer is going to post bail and won't spend any time in jail. He will be free to go home and sleep in his own bed and will likely have a trial 6-12 months from now in either a suburb of Minneapolis or some rural part of Minnesota because the defense will claim he can't get a fair trial in the cities.
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https://twitter.com/OfficialMLK3/status/1266040838628560898
This.
https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1266342997077131265?s=19
Marco Rubio with an excellent tweet.
I agree except for the self defeating part. The game is rigged against the people who are rioting. They’ve been defeated over and over. They cannot win. Heck, some people tried to peacefully protest and the cops came through spraying tear gas. Nothing they can do will change anything, so I don’t think you can say it’s self-defeating when there’s no path to victory no matter what.
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It would just give the racist-in-chief and his followers another reason to do their hateful, racist thing.
Can you just not type stuff like this? It adds nothing to the discussion.
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Good question. I imagine he'll try, as he was a city employee acting within his official capacity when this occurred. However, the city will fight that in court, likely arguing that kneeling on a person's neck was outside official policy and therefore the city should not be responsible for his defense. It'll probably end up in court. Just my speculation.
...and the taxpayers will have to pay to see if they have to pay?
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These aren't dumb questions.
Two reasons I can think of for the slow movement:
First, once you make an arrest, your suspect now has Miranda rights. A suspect who has and who exercises his rights (as these cops surely will) is less likely to provide information and cooperate with the investigation ... and maybe even slip up and say something incriminating.
Second, this obviously will be a massively high profile case and the defendants will have outstanding legal representation. This isn't some poor black guy off the street who's going to end up with an overworked and possibly underskilled public defender whose primary task will be to cut a decent deal as expeditiously as possible.
Best to take your time and get it right than hurry things up for the sake of the public, make a mistake and provide the defense with reasonable doubt.
Miranda rights? That's hilarious. Those cops were told by their union bosses the SECOND that video was released to not say a damn thing to anyone about what happened. The cops knew that before they got arrested as well. They were fired from the force, but they're still members of the union.
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...and the taxpayers will have to pay to see if they have to pay?
Doesn't the union usually provide the attorneys for cops who are criminally charged?
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From the NYT:
U.S. Sen. Amy Klobuchar, a vice presidential candidate, has found herself back in the spotlight this week, and not for a reason she would have hoped for.
When she was the Hennepin County attorney, Ms. Klobuchar declined to prosecute a number of Minneapolis police officers accused of using unnecessary force.
This week, one of those officers, Derek Chauvin, knelt on the neck of a black man, George Floyd, who later died. The city has erupted in protests, and Mr. Chauvin has been fired.
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Re: AutoZone...
https://twitter.com/javimorillo/status/1266142878889316353?s=19
Hmm.. that sure looks like a strange situation for a white guy to start the damage.
The plot thickens, although the source is questionable:
https://twitter.com/GypsyEyedBeauty/status/1266164431584714753?s=19
If he did do it, some serious issues for him.
Saint Paul PD saying it wasn’t him.
https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/jacob-pederson-auto-zone-cop-not-umbrella-man/
If the article is true, he should be able to sue these people saying he was the man that started this. He is not a public figure and people will believe he did it no matter what the police say. H
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Buy ammo. Told you all that last month. Friends that are completely anti gun rights now have come around. I believe in strong restrictions and background checks and it is times like these where having a few weapons safely stored in the home makes us sleep better.
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From the NYT:
U.S. Sen. Amy Klobuchar, a vice presidential candidate, has found herself back in the spotlight this week, and not for a reason she would have hoped for.
When she was the Hennepin County attorney, Ms. Klobuchar declined to prosecute a number of Minneapolis police officers accused of using unnecessary force.
This week, one of those officers, Derek Chauvin, knelt on the neck of a black man, George Floyd, who later died. The city has erupted in protests, and Mr. Chauvin has been fired.
I hope this doesn’t derail her. She’s my favorite for JB’s VP and since I believe he cannot make it through four years due to his mental health, she would become the President. She is reasoned, moderate, not crazy on either side.
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If he did do it, some serious issues for him.
Saint Paul PD saying it wasn’t him.
https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/jacob-pederson-auto-zone-cop-not-umbrella-man/
If the article is true, he should be able to sue these people saying he was the man that started this. He is not a public figure and people will believe he did it no matter what the police say. H
Well, I mean, the SPPD has a dog in this game.. so take their denial with a huge grain of salt. I'll believe them when they can offer some shred of evidence other than, "he was working with other officers who can vouch that he was there".
But I think doxxing this dude internationally is awful as well. He has already been tried in the court of opinion and has been found guilty by mob justice.
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Miranda rights? That's hilarious. Those cops were told by their union bosses the SECOND that video was released to not say a damn thing to anyone about what happened. The cops knew that before they got arrested as well. They were fired from the force, but they're still members of the union.
You don't have the right to remain silent when you're not under custodial arrest. Therefore, pre-arrest, a person's silence/refusal to answer questions can be used against them in a court of law.
So, yeah, these guys may have been told to clam up, but without arrest, their silence can be used against them.
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Buy ammo. Told you all that last month. Friends that are completely anti gun rights now have come around. I believe in strong restrictions and background checks and it is times like these where having a few weapons safely stored in the home makes us sleep better.
More people willing to take others' lives, and with the easy capacity to do so, is exactly what we need right now.
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The former head of the NAACP in St Paul is not holding back. Hard to argue with her on this.
https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/dianne-binns-video-st-paul-naacp/
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It is being reported that 3rd degree murder charges for the first officer as well as manslaughter thus far. In Minnesota, 3rd degree murder has a max sentence of 25 years and it would seem may be easier for conviction than 2nd degree murder which has a max sentence there of 40 years. There also may be additional charges for the first officer.
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Buy ammo. Told you all that last month. Friends that are completely anti gun rights now have come around. I believe in strong restrictions and background checks and it is times like these where having a few weapons safely stored in the home makes us sleep better.
I think every newborn should be issued an AK-47 at birth. That would reduce the cost of background checks because no newborn has a criminal record.
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You don't have the right to remain silent when you're not under custodial arrest. Therefore, pre-arrest, a person's silence/refusal to answer questions can be used against them in a court of law.
So, yeah, these guys may have been told to clam up, but without arrest, their silence can be used against them.
Anything anyone says can be used against them at any time in a court of law. This is not Law and Order or NCIS. You cannot use silence against a person. I'd love to see that line of questioning.
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It is being reported that 3rd degree murder charges for the first officer as well as manslaughter thus far. In Minnesota, 3rd degree murder has a max sentence of 25 years and it would seem may be easier for conviction than 2nd degree murder which has a max sentence there of 40 years. There also may be additional charges for the first officer.
Should have arrested all four. They were all there and participated and could have stopped it. They all have training for these situations. Maybe they don't all get charged the same, but they're all accessories.
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Buy ammo. Told you all that last month. Friends that are completely anti gun rights now have come around. I believe in strong restrictions and background checks and it is times like these where having a few weapons safely stored in the home makes us sleep better.
I've made it to 42 years of age without ever firing a gun. I'm not starting now.
However, I have increased my Kung Fu movie watching considerably. Trying times, indeed.
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Doesn't the union usually provide the attorneys for cops who are criminally charged?
I believe you are right that the union will rep them.
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Same defense lawyer as the one that got the cop who shot Philandro Castile acquitted.
What a way to make a living. Dedending dirty cops.
(For the record, having a legal defense, either hired or public defender, is one of the most fundamental tenets of this country.)
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Doesn't the union usually provide the attorneys for cops who are criminally charged?
Are not Union contracts usually "negotiated" with the state, county or city? Either way the taxpayer is paying directly or indirectly. Did not some Governors just state that Police and Firefighters would be laid off without Federal dollars due to "lost" taxes.
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Same defense lawyer as the one that got the cop who shot Philandro Castile acquitted.
What a way to make a living. Dedending dirty cops.
(For the record, having a legal defense, either hired or public defender, is one of the most fundamental tenets of this country.)
So not a public defender but some high priced attorney he chose whose retainer the Union (ie the taxpayer) will be paying.
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Should have arrested all four. They were all there and participated and could have stopped it. They all have training for these situations. Maybe they don't all get charged the same, but they're all accessories.
I would be surprised if the other 3 were not charged. And I believe the first officer may face additional charges. It was very important to at the very least get some charges started. But I'd be very surprised if charges were complete at this time.
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I would be surprised if the union pays for legal representation of fired officers. If the union chooses to argue wrongful termination, the union will pay that lawyer.
Yes, if there is not federal money to the states, it is likely that there will be layoffs of public safety officers. The state and local revenues have obviously been decimated along with everything else.
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Buy ammo.
I would take your advice if I could buy ALL the ammo out there. That way, nobody else would have any. But I can't, so I turn it over to my go-to expert on this subject ...
Good evening, everybody. This here is Archie Bunker of 704 Hauser Street, veteran of the big war, speaking on behalf of guns for everybody. Now, question: What was the first thing that the Communists done when they took over Russia? Answer: gun control. And there's a lot of people in this country wanna do the same thing to us here in a kind of conspiracy, see. You take your big international bankers, they want to - whaddya call - masticate the people of this here nation like puppets on the wing, and then when they get their guns, turn us over to the Commies.
Now I want to talk about another thing that's on everybody's minds today, and that's your stick-ups and your skyjackings, and which, if that were up to me, I could end the skyjackings tomorrow.
All you gotta do is arm all your passengers. He ain't got no more moral superiority there, and he ain't gonna dare to pull out no rod. And then your airlines, they wouldn't have to search the passengers on the ground no more, they just pass out the pistols at the beginning of the trip, and they just pick them up at the end! Case closed.
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You don't have the right to remain silent when you're not under custodial arrest.
I don't think this is correct. You have the right to remain silent, always.
That's why it's called a "Miranda Warning" .. you are being reminded of your rights .. it's not a specific moment when rights are granted.
It's a guarantee those cops, all cops, know exactly what their rights are, so a theory that they will speak more freely before being arrested is false.
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I don't think this is correct. You have the right to remain silent, always.
That's why it's called a "Miranda Warning" .. you are being reminded of your rights .. it's not a specific moment when rights are granted.
It's a guarantee those cops, all cops, know exactly what their rights are, so a theory that they will speak more freely before being arrested is false.
You said it better. :)
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Pretty sure the Chicago FOP paid the legal bills for Jason Van Dyke in the Laquan MacDonald case, and they not only paid the bills for Jon Burge but will adamantly defend him to this day.
Please don’t bash public defenders.
Any defense attorney is going to ask for a change of venue. It would border on malpractice not to make that motion.
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More people willing to take others' lives, and with the easy capacity to do so, is exactly what we need right now.
Well im certainly not going to trust police to save and come to myself or my loved ones aid if someone comes bashing down my door.
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Anything anyone says can be used against them at any time in a court of law. This is not Law and Order or NCIS. You cannot use silence against a person. I'd love to see that line of questioning.
The US Supreme Court decided a case on this very issue in 2013. A murder suspect's refusal to answer police questions pre-arrest was used against him by prosecutors. The court upheld the conviction.
Maybe the justices are watching too much TV.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-246_7l48.pdf
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Are not Union contracts usually "negotiated" with the state, county or city? Either way the taxpayer is paying directly or indirectly. Did not some Governors just state that Police and Firefighters would be laid off without Federal dollars due to "lost" taxes.
Yes, but it would be union dues that would pay for any union-backed attorneys.
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Minneapolis and St. Paul have an 8pm curfew tonight and tomorrow night.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheoKeith/status/1266476548321882114?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Rumors are that other places in the state may follow.
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I know the city of Minneapolis had to arrest the one officer that was doing the kneeling to show that they're doing something about this, but the officer is going to post bail and won't spend any time in jail. He will be free to go home and sleep in his own bed and will likely have a trial 6-12 months from now in either a suburb of Minneapolis or some rural part of Minnesota because the defense will claim he can't get a fair trial in the cities.
Also, he wasn't called a THUG by the leader of our country. That term was reserved for the black folks.
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I hope this doesn’t derail her. She’s my favorite for JB’s VP and since I believe he cannot make it through four years due to his mental health, she would become the President. She is reasoned, moderate, not crazy on either side.
the "mental health" thing is BS and pure gaslighting. Biden has a stutter, he always has, that's what causes him to lose his place talking. He does not have declining mental health. Now, the current President, is it mental decline or his documented Adderall addiction?
I'm not a fan of Amy K. She doesn't do much for me and her failures as a prosecutor in MSP pretty much disqualify her after this week.
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Can you just not type stuff like this? It adds nothing to the discussion.
It would be nice, but...
In times of unrest, it is a president’s job to soothe and calm the nation. Instead he throws fire on the situation. And he does it strictly to try to divide and harm the nation.
Now, I could type a short reasoned essay explaining what he is doing and why it is so harmful. I don’t think he has earned the benefit of the doubt for anyone to do that. So, I express those feelings in a short, crass, and most importantly, blunt statement.
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If the rumor is true that Amy failed to prosecute the offending officer years ago for a different offense, she will not be the VP.
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One of my closest friends of a decade plus is African American, and he’s been really stressed about this all, as you can imagine. He was the catalyst of one of my first stark encounters of different treatments. Long story short, he, myself, and another of his college friends (also AA) were walking in Ravenswood (where he grew up) late on week night after going to a party. CPD squad car pulled up, stopped us, and rather insistently pulled them aside for questioning about some “complaint”. Both of them were well dressed, polite and cooperative, and still patted down against the car. One officer was pretty insistent on me continuing on my way and aggressively shot down any questions I had. His partner was more reasonable but if he was of the same mind, I definitely would have been run off to let them do what they wanted to do. It was blatant unnecessary profiling and normally I have a quite high view of CPD.
Regardless, I’m quite open to his rational viewpoints of this sort of thing as it’s his personal struggle. Masters degree, lives in a beautiful high rise in Gold Coast with his fiancée, does very well financially, and he still has a perpetual fear that these things could happen to him. But where we agreed is the reaction to George Floyd had been remarkable consistent. Not that my Twitter feed is filled with Blue Lives Matter sort of presences, but it has enough diverse vantage points where I normally see the most extreme reactions retweeted with a “WTF” sort of response. There was far less here than I’ve seen with many other situations like this. It was almost uniformly “this is horrible, indefensible, etc...”. Which is great.
My wife's friend said after the Amaud Abury news he had "the talk" with his 13 year old. No, not that one, but the "you have to be extra careful of the police" talk. Mixed race kid in suburban St. Louis. Another of her friends, a former cop himself, runs with a pistol on him because he lives in a white area and has received threatening looks and comments from people. Plenty of her minority friends have shared similar experiences (she's Asian so in addition to being told "go back to where you came from" is also called a "model minority"). As a white guy born into relative privilege (dad a doctor, mom a nurse), like many of us who had the honor of going to MU, we never experienced this stuff cannot fully understand. We can empathize and listen, but that isn't our life experience. I grew up in an all-white Midwestern town. The only time I was really exposed to African-Americans was a conference road game we had every year to the only minority school we played and our coaches put the fear of God in us to not go anywhere with less than two others with us. We've likely never been followed in a store. We've probably never had the doors locked on us to keep us from entering a store. We've most likely never been roughed up by the police for something as minor as parking in a handicapped spot. It's doubtful any of us have been pulled over, either driving or stopped while on foot, for no reason.
Should we be surprised by what is happening? Absolutely not. White supremacists have been infiltrating the police and military for over a decade. The FBI called attention to it and nothing was done. The police protect one another. Joe Biden nailed it today: a majority of police are good people but they have to root out the bad cops. In MSP alone, a black man who was pulled over and trying to follow the officer's orders was murdered....and the officer exonerated. Meanwhile, a minority officer shot a white woman running towards him and he got 25 years. Why wouldn't the minority population of MSP be pushed to the breaking point? Of course, the rioting only happened after peaceful protests were turned violent by the use of force by the police. Meanwhile, armed whites who stormed Capitol buildings demanding hair cuts were allowed to do whatever they wanted. What was the difference...?
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If the rumor is true that Amy failed to prosecute the offending officer years ago for a different offense, she will not be the VP.
According to the prosecutor’s office, AK was not involved in that decision. The event occurred in October 2006, and she essentially had her foot out the door to the Senate by the time the decision was made.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/us/politics/klobuchar-minneapolis-george-floyd.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Still, the timing of this event hurts her chances because it feeds into the narrative of her as being too easy on police officers.
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The US Supreme Court decided a case on this very issue in 2013. A murder suspect's refusal to answer police questions pre-arrest was used against him by prosecutors. The court upheld the conviction.
Maybe the justices are watching too much TV.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-246_7l48.pdf
5-4 decision
https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/casebrief/p/casebrief-salinas-v-texas
Conclusion:
The Supreme Court of the United States affirmed the judgment of the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals. The Court found that Genovevo's situation was outside the scope of Miranda because he agreed to accompany the officers to the station and was free to leave at any time during the interview. The privilege against self-incrimination generally was not self-executing and a witness who desired its protection had to claim it. According to the Court, a witness did not invoke the privilege by simply standing mute. In this regard, Genovevo was required to assert the privilege in order to benefit from it. Thus, Genovevo's Fifth Amendment claim failed because he did not expressly invoke the privilege against self-incrimination in response to the officer's question. The Court rejected Genovevo's argument that the invocation requirement did not apply where a witness was silent in the face of official suspicions.
So he didn't say "I'm invoking my 5th amendment rights". The problem is they used his reaction to being asked a question. While he was silent, he didn't say he wanted a lawyer (rookie mistake), and he allowed the interview to continue. The suspect gave the police his shotgun for testing (willingly) and then days later another man testified that the suspect confessed to the killings. I'm not intimately familiar with the case, but did the conviction hang on this reaction? Also, full disclosure, IANAL, but I wasted some money on school.
So I guess, what you said isn't wrong. Good info to know that everyone from then on has to invoke the 5th aloud. I, obviously, agree with the dissent in this opinion... really dangerous precedent.
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If the rumor is true that Amy failed to prosecute the offending officer years ago for a different offense, she will not be the VP.
In my opinion, I don't think it matters as I have thought from the beginning JB's VP pick would be a black female. I still would be very surprised if he picked anyone but that.
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Confirming with my union... The officer is responsible for the hiring and payment of the attorney related to the criminal charges. Not the union.
The union is responsible for the grievance arbitration if any kind of wrongful dismissal case is filed by the union.
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the "mental health" thing is BS and pure gaslighting. Biden has a stutter, he always has, that's what causes him to lose his place talking. He does not have declining mental health. Now, the current President, is it mental decline or his documented Adderall addiction?
I'm not a fan of Amy K. She doesn't do much for me and her failures as a prosecutor in MSP pretty much disqualify her after this week.
Believe what you will. I am a fan of Joe Biden, but his cognitive skills right now are impaired. His best bet is to stay at home and say nothing. Let the idiot opponent do all the campaigning for you. Biden’s problem right now is when he actually speaks. Some of the virtual town halls he is in are so bad because he is not all there. I have seen dementia and Alzheimer’s up close and personal in far too many loved ones. His characteristics come across similarly to me. It’s not a stutter.
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It would be nice, but...
In times of unrest, it is a president’s job to soothe and calm the nation. Instead he throws fire on the situation. And he does it strictly to try to divide and harm the nation.
Now, I could type a short reasoned essay explaining what he is doing and why it is so harmful. I don’t think he has earned the benefit of the doubt for anyone to do that. So, I express those feelings in a short, crass, and most importantly, blunt statement.
If he did (and he has in the past) he is unloaded on anyway. No different than when the right unloaded on Obama all the time.
There is an ever growing segment on both sides that cannot do anything but hold disdain for the other. They are everywhere and here at Scoop is no exception.
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More people willing to take others' lives, and with the easy capacity to do so, is exactly what we need right now.
For a defensive position, yes it is. The police cannot be everywhere as proven the last few days. At some point every man has to protect his family. That is what I was taught and raised with. I’m not concealing and carrying, they are at home and hopefully never to be used. But if they are needed, I will not hesitate as a deterrent first or as a powerful defense tool if it comes to it.
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Believe what you will. I am a fan of Joe Biden, but his cognitive skills right now are impaired. His best bet is to stay at home and say nothing. Let the idiot opponent do all the campaigning for you. Biden’s problem right now is when he actually speaks. Some of the virtual town halls he is in are so bad because he is not all there. I have seen dementia and Alzheimer’s up close and personal in far too many loved ones. His characteristics come across similarly to me. It’s not a stutter.
Yes, reminds me of Ronald Reagen his final year and a half as President.
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Confirming with my union... The officer is responsible for the hiring and payment of the attorney related to the criminal charges. Not the union.
The union is responsible for the grievance arbitration if any kind of wrongful dismissal case is filed by the union.
Glad to hear it, thanks.
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For a defensive position, yes it is. The police cannot be everywhere as proven the last few days. At some point every man has to protect his family. That is what I was taught and raised with. I’m not concealing and carrying, they are at home and hopefully never to be used. But if they are needed, I will not hesitate as a deterrent first or as a powerful defense tool if it comes to it.
Are you a drug lord? What world do you live in where you need to on alert for people out to murder your family?
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Buy ammo. Told you all that last month. Friends that are completely anti gun rights now have come around. I believe in strong restrictions and background checks and it is times like these where having a few weapons safely stored in the home makes us sleep better.
In a thread about a murdered, unarmed black man, this is your contribution. Honestly, you're a douche.
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For a defensive position, yes it is. The police cannot be everywhere as proven the last few days. At some point every man has to protect his family. That is what I was taught and raised with. I’m not concealing and carrying, they are at home and hopefully never to be used. But if they are needed, I will not hesitate as a deterrent first or as a powerful defense tool if it comes to it.
Out of curiosity, can you describe a situation where you used your guns to defend your family at your home?
My household did not have any guns growing up and I can’t think of one occasion where my veteran father would’ve needed a gun to protect us in our own home.
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Chicos. Please start your own thread on the poor quality of the democratic presidential candidate (who you will vote for because you've never voted for anything but blue) and the unfairness of the American people to the current president. I'm not sure how you manage to take every thread and derail it. But here we are again.
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Also, he wasn't called a THUG by the leader of our country. That term was reserved for the black folks.
Same term Obama said in 2015 about Baltimore.
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Same term Obama said in 2015 about Baltimore.
What-about
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What-about
“Criminals and thugs” referring to Baltimore riots.
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Same term Obama said in 2015 about Baltimore.
“Criminals and thugs” referring to Baltimore riots.
Did he also call Neo-Nazis very good people?
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Did he also call Neo-Nazis very good people?
I'm as anti orange fat guys as anyone but isn't this a bit of "what about ism"?
For the record I do agree the difference is equity Obama built up with race relations vs Trump having zero equity in that department so the same statement has very different connotation. But the individuals you quoted won't think of it that way.
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the "mental health" thing is BS and pure gaslighting. Biden has a stutter, he always has, that's what causes him to lose his place talking. He does not have declining mental health. Now, the current President, is it mental decline or his documented Adderall addiction?
I'm not a fan of Amy K. She doesn't do much for me and her failures as a prosecutor in MSP pretty much disqualify her after this week.
One more clue about Warrior Dad. He watches Fox News and repeats their lies. I guess that’s what most send for life do.
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I'm as anti orange fat guys as anyone but isn't this a bit of "what about ism"?
For the record I do agree the difference is equity Obama built up with race relations vs Trump having zero equity in that department so the same statement has very different connotation. But the individuals you quoted won't think of it that way.
Nah...not taking a side. Just answered the question.
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It appears some of y'all would be a lot happier if you would just fookin' move to Australia, hey?
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Top flite chutzpah here.
@Mike_Pence: We believe in law and order in this Country. We condemn violence against property or persons. We will always stand for the right of Americans to peacefully protest and let their voices be heard.
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One more clue about Warrior Dad. He watches Fox News and repeats their lies. I guess that’s what most send for life do.
OMG. How dare he. ::)
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@Mike_Pence: We believe in law and order in this Country. We condemn violence against property or persons. We will always stand for the right of Americans to peacefully protest and let their voices be heard.
Truth bro, hey?
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OMG. How dare he. ::)
Just seems...interesting...for a guy who has never voted for anything but democrats in his entire life.
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Maybe he is seeing the light.
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@Mike_Pence: We believe in law and order in this Country. We condemn violence against property or persons. We will always stand for the right of Americans to peacefully protest and let their voices be heard.
Truth bro, hey?
False bro, aina.
The guy stands for peaceful protest so much that he made a show of storming out of a football game because of a peaceful protest. Then he urged the NFL to ban peaceful protests.
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Maybe he is seeing the light.
That light you see, that's a train coming full speed at you, and it's not slowing down.
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Unless we make changes in who is running these major cites.
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@Mike_Pence: We believe in law and order in this Country. We condemn violence against property or persons. We will always stand for the right of Americans to peacefully protest and let their voices be heard.
Truth bro, hey?
If we condemn violence against persons why has only 1 of 4 cops been arrested? The Vice President of our country is speaking up against rioters while ignoring the black man that was murdered.
Hooray for America, where we speak up only if the rich white male is inconvenienced, hey? #MAGA
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More rioting tonight (in violation of the curfew), and again the police are nowhere to be found.
Crazy.
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If I need a weapon to defend myself in my home then I would also need a few other things.
I would need sand bags, lots of sand bags, concertina wire, a few dozen claymores, batteries, wire, some flares, smoke, gas masks, night vision stuff, fire extinguishers, a radio, and a few junk yard dogs for openers. At the end, I'd probably be dead.
These guys with gun safes in the basement are nuts. Oh, I have lots of been nowhere done nothing neighbors ready to protect their families. What a joke.
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More rioting tonight (in violation of the curfew), and again the police are nowhere to be found.
Crazy.
You have to know when to hold'em and when to fold'em.
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You have to know when to hold'em and when to fold'em.
The city has been on fire for two nights. When exactly will it be time to hold ‘em?
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False bro, aina.
The guy stands for peaceful protest so much that he made a show of storming out of a football game because of a peaceful protest. Then he urged the NFL to ban peaceful protests.
Lol
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The city has been on fire for two nights. When exactly will it be time to hold ‘em?
Good question.
This isn't Newark in the 60's.
Can't believe the MPD lost a police station.
The attacker's apparently know what they are doing.
They have communication and perhaps leadership, they have numbers and perhaps armaments which have not been deployed.
We know only half the story, if that.
Like all wars it will end when it ends.
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More rioting tonight (in violation of the curfew), and again the police are nowhere to be found.
Crazy.
The so called leaders of that state and city have disgraced themselves. Shockingly, the curfew is being ignored. No one saw that coming. 🤔
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Good question.
This isn't Newark in the 60's.
Can't believe the MPD lost a police station.
The attacker's apparently know what they are doing.
They have communication and perhaps leadership, they have numbers and perhaps armaments which have not been deployed.
We know only half the story, if that.
Like all wars it will end when it ends.
I am not in law enforcement, so I don’t know the answer either...but on-air analysts (chiefs or former chiefs from other cities) say they have never seen the kind of large-scale retreat we have seen in MPLS.
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Have to really question the leadership of Minneapolis and the State of Minnesota. Talk about mishandling a crisis and taking action too late. We've seen what's happened in other recent officer involved killings of black men. Yet in the case of George Floyd, it was the most egregious, heinous, non-defensible policing we've seen - why would the state have not anticipated riots/looting weren't imminent? Took 4 days to activate the National Guard?
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I mean, WTF could this cop be thinking?
@ChrisBishopL1C4: This just happened on live tv. Wow, what a douche bag. https://twitter.com/ChrisBishopL1C4/status/1266546753182056453/video/1
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I am not in law enforcement, so I don’t know the answer either...but on-air analysts (chiefs or former chiefs from other cities) say they have never seen the kind of large-scale retreat we have seen in MPLS.
You have two choices, retreat or attack. Take your pick.
The tactics employed by police for crowd control don't work anymore. That's why the World Economic Forums are held in out of the way places and are planned for a year in advance.
Read, Among Thugs, good read, funny, it's about the soccer hooligans in the '80's.
It was a game of rioting in Europe. However, old news.
Unless the police go to violence, live fire, there is really little they can do. Too many people, too many cell phones, too many streets. And there are lots of guns in the possession of the rioters. I saw Molotov cocktails, fireworks, battering rams, some serious offense. In NYC they use divide and conquer, that does not work here.
Next move may be water cannons, and tanks, but that does not look good on international t.v..
This country is a tinderbox, the solution is to change the criminal justice system, the training of police, and the patrol manuals.
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You have two choices, retreat or attack. Take your pick.
Third option. In both Dallas and Los Angeles tonight, lines of police officers got between large groups of people and divided them into smaller groups. It worked quite well actually.
In Minneapolis they have the entire police department plus the National Guard and all they do is run and hide. What was the point of calling out the National Guard if they weren’t going to use them?
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OMG. How dare he. ::)
I don’t care if he or you or anybody watches Fox. I was mocking his lame attempt to pretend he’s not Chico.
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I mean, WTF could this cop be thinking?
@ChrisBishopL1C4: This just happened on live tv. Wow, what a douche bag. https://twitter.com/ChrisBishopL1C4/status/1266546753182056453/video/1
Someone told the cops that the media is the enemy.
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Third option. In both Dallas and Los Angeles tonight, lines of police officers got between large groups of people and divided them into smaller groups. It worked quite well actually.
In Minneapolis they have the entire police department plus the National Guard and all they do is run and hide. What was the point of calling out the National Guard if they weren’t going to use them?
That is what NYC does. It does not work against an organized mob. They have mobility. The advantage the police has is leadership, a plan, and communication. In this case, in 2020, the edge may be lost.
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That is what NYC does. It does not work against an organized mob. They have mobility.
They have cellphones in LA and Dallas tonight, and the police somehow managed to do it. And I suspect when an angry mob gathers in NYC, they probably have cellphones as well. Are you saying that the people of Minneapolis somehow have a better ability to organize a mob than they do elsewhere?
And again, why would they call out the National Guard if all they were going to do is run and hide?
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They have cellphones in LA and Dallas tonight, and the police somehow managed to do it. And I suspect when an angry mob gathers in NYC, they probably have cellphones as well. Are you saying that the people of Minneapolis somehow have this great ability to organize a mob on like anywhere else?
And again, why would they call out the National Guard if all they were going to do is run and hide?
NYC uses the streets and cages. They hurd the mob like cattle.
The Guard are in reserve, protecting the more valuable assets. Next move is tanks in the street.???
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That is what NYC does. It does not work against an organized mob. They have mobility. The advantage the police has is leadership, a plan, and communication. In this case, in 2020, the edge may be lost.
So anarchy will win out in the end. Anyone who isn’t an anarchist is screwed. Okey doke.
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NYC uses the streets and cages. They hurd the mob like cattle.
The Guard are in reserve, protecting the more valuable assets. Next move is tanks in the street.???
Tell me why they were able to do it in LA and Dallas tonight. All the protesters have cellphones, and none of the police have street grids like NYC.
As for protecting “valuable assets”...the police building that was torched last night was not a valuable asset? What about the Target store, Cub Foods or AutoZone? What about the Wells Fargo, KMart, Family Dollar and other businesses that are burning tonight?
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So anarchy will win out in the end. Anyone who isn’t an anarchist is screwed. Okey doke.
No, change police culture. Then there is no need to demonstrate, riot, civil unrest, burn, loot, whatever.
You rember Rummies old tipping point line? We have reached a tipping point, or next time, or the time after that.
I remeber Kent State, another tipping point.
The Chicago Dem. Convention, another tipping point.
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No, change police culture. Then there is no need to demonstrate, riot, civil unrest, burn, loot, whatever.
You rember Rummies old tipping point line? We have reached a tipping point, or next time, or the time after that.
I remeber Kent State, another tipping point.
The Chicago Dem. Convention, another tipping point.
Oh, police culture is the genesis of all violent mob behavior. They own it all. The world was fine until cops came along and effed it all up.
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Tell me why they were able to do it in LA and Dallas tonight. All the protesters have cellphones, and none of the police have street grids like NYC.
As for protecting “valuable assets”...the police building that was torched last night was not a valuable asset? What about the Target store, Cub Foods or AutoZone? What about the Wells Fargo bank branch that’s burning tonight?
Chump change, covered by insurance.
Good t.v..
The police station was a dump, but still should have been defended.
The Secret Service uses rings of protection. Same concept for protection of valuable assets. A line of police standing shoulder to shoulder is of little use.
I'm Irish, Irish passport. Remember what they did to the Irish? Horses. NYC has dozens of horses. Now that is intimidating. I bet Dallas has horses.
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Chump change, covered by insurance.
Good t.v..
The police station was a dump, but still should have been defended.
The Secret Service uses rings of protection. Same concept for protection of valuable assets. A line of police standing shoulder to shoulder is of little use.
I'm Irish, Irish passport. Remember what they did to the Irish? Horses. NYC has dozens of horses. Now that is intimidating. I bet Dallas has horses.
Horses?
Excellent. But yeah - Minneapolis has horses too. Perhaps the officers rode away instead of running.
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Chump change, covered by insurance.
Good t.v..
The police station was a dump, but still should have been defended.
The Secret Service uses rings of protection. Same concept for protection of valuable assets. A line of police standing shoulder to shoulder is of little use.
I'm Irish, Irish passport. Remember what they did to the Irish? Horses. NYC has dozens of horses. Now that is intimidating. I bet Dallas has horses.
And you’d say what to the African American firefighter whose life savings started a bar that was burned down in this? No worries, that’s what insurance is for?
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Oh, police culture is the genesis of all violent mob behavior. They own it all. The world was fine until cops came along and effed it all up.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you.
We are talking about this particular situation.
This police action, the direct cause of the mob behavior.
Mobs form over income inequality, sports, political elections, religion, etc. Not all about police culture. However, we are talking about a police action and furthermore, a pattern of behavior.
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And you’d say what to the African American firefighter whose life savings started a bar that was burned down in this? No worries, that’s what insurance is for?
I suspect vogue is just messing with us. Every time I respond to one of his claims, he comes up with something else. Street grids, cell phones, now horses.
I’m done with his silly games.
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And you’d say what to the African American firefighter whose life savings started a bar that was burned down in this? No worries, that’s what insurance is for?
Life is difficult, I hope he has coverage and the policy doesn't have an exemption. They usually do, that's the insurance industry way.
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I suspect vogue is just messing with us. Every time I respond to one of his claims, he comes up with something else. Street grids, cell phones, now horses.
I’m done with his silly games.
What do you think the NYC horses are for? Tourist photography? No, they are for riot control going back to the Irish riots with the Protestants. Sad but true, it's history. Before my time, but they are still around. Do they have horses in the Milwaukee P.D.?
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I suspect vogue is just messing with us. Every time I respond to one of his claims, he comes up with something else. Street grids, cell phones, now horses.
I’m done with his silly games.
Agree.
Lots of good insight on this Goooo.Have a good night
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You have two choices, retreat or attack. Take your pick.
The tactics employed by police for crowd control don't work anymore. That's why the World Economic Forums are held in out of the way places and are planned for a year in advance.
Read, Among Thugs, good read, funny, it's about the soccer hooligans in the '80's.
It was a game of rioting in Europe. However, old news.
Unless the police go to violence, live fire, there is really little they can do. Too many people, too many cell phones, too many streets. And there are lots of guns in the possession of the rioters. I saw Molotov cocktails, fireworks, battering rams, some serious offense. In NYC they use divide and conquer, that does not work here.
Next move may be water cannons, and tanks, but that does not look good on international t.v..
This country is a tinderbox, the solution is to change the criminal justice system, the training of police, and the patrol manuals.
Among the thugs. Great book.
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What do you think the NYC horses are for? Tourist photography? No, they are for riot control going back to the Irish riots with the Protestants. Sad but true, it's history. Before my time, but they are still around. Do they have horses in the Milwaukee P.D.?
Horses offer better sight lines for mounted officers and also allow officers to be seen, which is effective in policing. You can also ride a horse through narrow streets or a throng of people. They are very effective with crowd control, but not explicitly riots as you imply. You can keep a parade hemmed in or on track with mounted police. Drunk people might hop on the hood of a car or otherwise disregard a slow moving cruiser, but a horse that can and will kick you in the face if you get in it’s space is an effective deterrent.
TLDR: mounted police have tons of pragmatic use, not just some riot stomping intimidation tactic
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Pentagon has ordered military police to be ready for deployment to Minneapolis.
Saturday could potentially be the most chaotic day this week across America. I have a bad feeling about this.
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In a FB group I am in, a woman who works in a dental office in Minneapolis posted that basically the police appear to have gone on ‘strike’. She said that they do not appear to be under the control or command of either the mayor or the chief. She said they are upset that the four officers were immediately fired, and furious at comments by the governor and the mayor, and so they basically have gone on strike. People nowhere near the riot area are boarding up.
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(https://66.media.tumblr.com/d85082c6ffe383f8b6493a93c432213b/tumblr_n51v1sK7321qhsmbwo3_250.gifv)
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Unless we make changes in who is running these major cites.
If you mean getting rid of the rascist cops in these cities and the union that protects them, then yes. I agree with you.
But I doubt that's what you mean.
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In a FB group I am in, a woman who works in a dental office in Minneapolis posted that basically the police appear to have gone on ‘strike’. She said that they do not appear to be under the control or command of either the mayor or the chief. She said they are upset that the four officers were immediately fired, and furious at comments by the governor and the mayor, and so they basically have gone on strike. People nowhere near the riot area are boarding up.
i doubt the police are against the firing of chauvin, probably to be followed by the other 3. they should be greatfull as those 4 have cast all cops in a terrible light. we have "bad people" involved in all aspects of our lives. doctors, teachers, fire, police. either this "woman" is terribly misguided and has some bad info or the tear gas has gotten to her. every sane person, regardless of their political persuasion could see the evil in those officers actions and inactions, this is why it is so important for good cops to band together to weed out the bad ones as we can see what can happen when the bad ones actually do what bad cops do
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so many of the most destructive people aren't even from the area. they could give 2 schmits about the destruction. they just finish up, admire their work and go home and look for the next place they can destroy. they should be arrested for domestic terrorism. then some of our famous actors/actreses michael moores of our world bail them out-nice
saw one interview last night with a 16 year old girl who lived right near by-her comment-"this is what needs to be done, yo" (head slapping forehead)
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so many of the most destructive people aren't even from the area. they could give 2 schmits about the destruction. they just finish up, admire their work and go home and look for the next place they can destroy. they should be arrested for domestic terrorism. then some of our famous actors/actreses michael moores of our world bail them out-nice
saw one interview last night with a 16 year old girl who lived right near by-her comment-"this is what needs to be done, yo" (head slapping forehead)
An idea. Stop worrying about what some dumba$$ celebrity does or what some 16 year old girl says. Worry about fixing the problem.
As mentioned earlier, high profile black athletes who were peacefully protesting these issues, were booed, threatened and had their livelihood taken away. So *that* didn't work.
So when is the problem going to be fixed instead of old, suburban white guys simply quoting MLK out of context and lecturing people on how they should protest?
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An idea. Stop worrying about what some dumba$$ celebrity does or what some 16 year old girl says. Worry about fixing the problem.
As mentioned earlier, high profile black athletes who were peacefully protesting these issues, were booed, threatened and had their livelihood taken away. So *that* didn't work.
So when is the problem going to be fixed instead of old, suburban white guys simply quoting MLK out of context and lecturing people on how they should protest?
As long as they don’t take a knee during the national anthem, I’m good with rioting
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Oh boy. The head of the house of Bourbon and pretend heir to the French throne is upset that the cititzens of Louisville damaged the King Louis XVI statue.
Louis de Bourbon, Duc d’Anjou
@louisducdanjou
https://twitter.com/louisducdanjou/status/1266578058452054016
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If you mean getting rid of the rascist cops in these cities and the union that protects them, then yes. I agree with you.
But I doubt that's what you mean.
Maybe Chauvin isn’t a racist, but was (thankful to use past tense) just a really bad cop, who got off on his authority? I read he and Thao, the other fired cop in the video, had DOZENS of conduct complaints against them. Maybe they didn’t discriminate against who they acted bad towards? But this country always has to make a snap judgment on race long before any facts and evidence come out.
I’m not for a minute saying he wasn’t racist, and his horrific actions Monday weren’t racially motivated, but no one in the public has any damn clue one way or the other yet. We will find out the answer, but it’s not going to be for a while.
Until then assuming only fans the flames. And if it’s so, hate crime needs to be added to list of charges against him.
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Maybe Chauvin isn’t a racist, but was (thankful to use past tense) just a really bad cop, who got off on his authority? I read he and Thao, the other fired cop in the video, had DOZENS of conduct complaints against them. Maybe they didn’t discriminate against who they acted bad towards? But this country always has to make a snap judgment on race long before any facts and evidence come out.
I’m not for a minute saying he wasn’t racist, and his horrific actions Monday weren’t racially motivated, but no one in the public has any damn clue one way or the other yet. We will find out the answer, but it’s not going to be for a while.
Until then assuming only fans the flames.
This country also has a history of saying things like "well we don't know if he actually was racist" even though the evidence seems pretty clear he is. Obviously these questions come about because we don't acknowledge racism exists in our institutions, and work to fix the problem. So when you have bad cops, who aren't actual racists, killing black people they get labelled as racist.
Because we aren't dealing with the problem.
I will also point out the irony of all these "don't tread on me" types who were out in full force because they couldn't eat at an Applebees, are largely silent when someone who works for the government literally kills someone.
I wonder why? Why aren't they invading the statehouse with their weapons brandished and hanging some in effigy over this issue?
It's a mystery.
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i doubt the police are against the firing of chauvin, probably to be followed by the other 3. they should be greatfull as those 4 have cast all cops in a terrible light. we have "bad people" involved in all aspects of our lives. doctors, teachers, fire, police. either this "woman" is terribly misguided and has some bad info or the tear gas has gotten to her. every sane person, regardless of their political persuasion could see the evil in those officers actions and inactions, this is why it is so important for good cops to band together to weed out the bad ones as we can see what can happen when the bad ones actually do what bad cops do
https://www.wrbl.com/news/mississippi-mayor-who-didnt-see-anything-unreasonable-about-george-floyds-death-refuses-to-resign/
I wish you were right, but sadly, there are a lot of people out there that think what the police did was perfectly ok. In the heart of deep-red country mayor's even feel comfortable saying it out loud.
And there are a lot more than will publicly say, "this is terrible," but when around friends they speak the truth and are ok with this. They blame the victim, and defend the cops. Not sure how much time you've seen in the south, but it is definitely different than Milwaukee. Sadly, the mentality of the south has been spreading lately, and people who used to feel shame for their racist thoughts around the country, now feel empowered to speak up, and act outwards.
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One of my favorite Twitter follows, by a former federal prosecutor who I would say is way more libertarian than liberal
FactNotStatementHat
@Popehat
I don’t understand why people don’t seek reasonable, peaceful change through orderly protest against a system that confers impunity for murdering them or through voting in a country that systematically tries to disenfranchise them.
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One of my favorite Twitter follows, by a former federal prosecutor who I would say is way more libertarian than liberal
FactNotStatementHat
@Popehat
I don’t understand why people don’t seek reasonable, peaceful change through orderly protest against a system that confers impunity for murdering them or through voting in a country that systematically tries to disenfranchise them.
That should hang in a museum
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Just seems...interesting...for a guy who has never voted for anything but democrats in his entire life.
It is also interesting when I link NYT, CNN, Washington Post, NPR or other sources you and the other gentleman are quiet on the matter.
If one relies only on right leaning news, it will effect their views. The same for left leaning news. Bubble impressions. Those of you on the harder left or harder right of things seem threatened or taken aback by someone who seeks information from multiple sources and isn’t a partisan.
And as I continue to say, both parties have changed considerably from my youth. Joe Manchin is a Democrat and so is Nancy Pelosi. Are they the universally the same on the issues? Joe Lieberman is different than Elizabeth Warren. Both ran for President under the same party. The same exercise can be done on the other side.
Maybe broaden your perspective and it might open your eyes to how other people think and help make the world a better place in finding common ground.
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Are you a drug lord? What world do you live in where you need to on alert for people out to murder your family?
I own three fire extinguishers that are in the kitchen, garage and basement. I have never needed to use them either. I have them just in case.
How many home invasions each year are thwarted by homeowners with a weapon where not a single shot needs to be fired? Look up the statistics, it will surprise you.
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Maybe Chauvin isn’t a racist, but was (thankful to use past tense) just a really bad cop, who got off on his authority? I read he and Thao, the other fired cop in the video, had DOZENS of conduct complaints against them. Maybe they didn’t discriminate against who they acted bad towards? But this country always has to make a snap judgment on race long before any facts and evidence come out.
I’m not for a minute saying he wasn’t racist, and his horrific actions Monday weren’t racially motivated, but no one in the public has any damn clue one way or the other yet. We will find out the answer, but it’s not going to be for a while.
Until then assuming only fans the flames. And if it’s so, hate crime needs to be added to list of charges against him.
Perhaps it's best - and definitely more accurate, I think- to view what's happening now as a result of more than just Derek Chauvin's personal views on race. His actions, whatever the motivations, are just the straw that broke the camel's back and shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum.
The protests and rioting are a result of years and years of unfair treatment and bad policing, not a single event. This isn't just about George Floyd. It's about Ahmed Arbery and Botham Jean and Philando Castile and Breona Taylor and Atantlanta Jefferson and Justine Ruszczyk and many, many others.
And in an odd twist, it appears Chauvin and George Floyd may have once been co-workers.
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/865803157/george-floyd-and-derek-chauvin-were-co-workers-says-former-club-owner
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Someone told the cops that the media is the enemy.
Someone told the people that the cops were the enemy.
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How many home invasions each year are thwarted by homeowners with a weapon where not a single shot needs to be fired? Look up the statistics, it will surprise you.
How do those statistics compare to the number of kids killed with a gun kept in the home for "protection"? Or the number of spouses/domestic partners? Or the number of suicides?
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Good God Chicos. Seriously, just start a new damn thread when you need to respond to every single post that was made when you were sleeping.
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In a thread about a murdered, unarmed black man, this is your contribution. Honestly, you're a douche.
There is an old adage when someone starts personal name calling they have lost the narrative. Reminds of actions of an Orange guy who doesn’t get his way and throws insults out. You can be better than this in my opinion.
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There is an old adage when someone starts personal name calling they have lost the narrative. Reminds of actions of an Orange guy who doesn’t get his way and throws insults out. You can be better than this in my opinion.
Nope. When there’s a thread about an unarmed black man being murdered while complying with police and you are drooling to come in and start up a gun debate I’ll call you for what you are.
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Curious when the so called patriotic militias come rolling in to counter protest.
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Perhaps it's best - and definitely more accurate, I think- to view what's happening now as a result of more than just Derek Chauvin's personal views on race. His actions, whatever the motivations, are just the straw that broke the camel's back and shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum.
The protests and rioting are a result of years and years of unfair treatment and bad policing, not a single event. This isn't just about George Floyd. It's about Ahmed Arbery and Botham Jean and Philando Castile and Breona Taylor and Atantlanta Jefferson and Justine Ruszczyk and many, many others.
And in an odd twist, it appears Chauvin and George Floyd may have once been co-workers.
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/865803157/george-floyd-and-derek-chauvin-were-co-workers-says-former-club-owner
Agreed. The systemic racism that has pervaded our law enforcement and criminal justice systems for years is a far bigger issue than whether Chauvin personally was a racist. That racism fueled the protests in Ferguson and Baltimore a few years back, and it is fueling protests in Minneapolis and elsewhere today.
Regarding the article, an interesting quote by the business owner about Chauvin: Santamaria also told the TV station that Chauvin "had a real short fuse," adding that he often pulled out mace and pepper spray when she thought it was unwarranted So maybe he was a racist, or maybe he was just someone who loved to play the tough guy...or possibly he was both. Tbd.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lf_2JyXocY
I know he is a celebrity, but he's a very smart man. 8 minutes well worth your time.
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Many who like Trump but don't want to be branded racists, sexists or homophobes for supporting him, say that they often don't like what he says but that they ignore his comments and twits. They say they pay attention to his policies, which they like.
In this case, "When the looting starts, the shooting starts" is policy.
He had the opportunity to try to de-escalate the situation. Instead, he fanned the flames of anger and violence. His response was not to try to calm things down but to send in the military to start shooting American citizens.
That is more than just a mindless twit, more than just a guy "not being P.C." That is a policy declaration from the President of the United States, delivered proudly, loudly and clearly.
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From the twitter machine:
St. Paul, MN Mayor Melvin Carter says every person arrested in his city last night was from out of state.
Dangerous Fringes (of all political leanings) are tearing this country apart.
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From the twitter machine:
St. Paul, MN Mayor Melvin Carter says every person arrested in his city last night was from out of state.
Dangerous Fringes (of all political leanings) are tearing this country apart.
That's nuts
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I will also point out the irony of all these "don't tread on me" types who were out in full force because they couldn't eat at an Applebees, are largely silent when someone who works for the government literally kills someone.
I wonder why? Why aren't they invading the statehouse with their weapons brandished and hanging some in effigy over this issue?
Very strong point, Sultan.
Here you have the government literally taking away freedoms, and they don't seem to mind.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lf_2JyXocY
I know he is a celebrity, but he's a very smart man. 8 minutes well worth your time.
I had never heard of the guy until yesterday, but I agree that was a very moving speech he gave.
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Nm
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In Milwaukee, police said an officer sustained a non-fatal gunshot wound while responded to the area of 200 West Locust Street. The 38-year-old officer is a 4-year veteran of the department. He was treated and expected to survive.
A Walgreens pharmacy appeared to be looted near Martin Luther King Drive and Locust Street; damage and spray paint could be seen on the outside of the building.
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That’s the way it has been in other past higher profile situations. It’s a mix of things, people, geographies. Here’s a random example of Ferguson where half of the people arrested on a given day were not from either the Metro area or the state. It’s a bad apple thing more than a geographic thing. There will be locals, and people from elsewhere. There are bad apples everywhere and sometimes they travel. And it certainly takes away from the many more peaceful protestors in these situations.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/more-than-50-arrested-at-ferguson-police-station-on-moral-monday-other-events-elsewhere/article_c1752132-9731-542e-8525-1885fae7fd10.amp.html
Not a surprise, and not anything new...the Minnesota Governor this morning said at least 80% of the 40 plus people arrested in Minneapolis and St. Paul (data not in yet from other local geographies) were not from the area. This has been going on a long time in other incidents and geographies as well.
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I had never heard of the guy until yesterday, but I agree that was a very moving speech he gave.
Have seen Killer Mike many times on Bill Maher and other programs. He is highly intelligent and he cares deeply about our country.
Yet another leader doing a better job in a crisis than the leader of the free world did.
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From the twitter machine:
St. Paul, MN Mayor Melvin Carter says every person arrested in his city last night was from out of state.
Dangerous Fringes (of all political leanings) are tearing this country apart.
Indeed, if an individual, group, or country is interested in weakening America (further) .. this is a golden opportunity.
We've seen it online with tremendous volumes of disinformation, hired by outside actors .. it's just not a great leap to bring it to the real world and create chaos.
Worst week of 2020 ... so far.
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Holy shat, if this is true. And while it’s thread from an obvious biased source, she is just quoting local officials.
https://twitter.com/joyannreid/status/1266741059163389952?s=21
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From the twitter machine:
St. Paul, MN Mayor Melvin Carter says every person arrested in his city last night was from out of state.
Dangerous Fringes (of all political leanings) are tearing this country apart.
WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHERE THEY ARE FROM?
Are they from Russia? Ireland? Who cares? Are we saying that only people from the third ward can demonstrate? Perhaps only from one or two blocks. I don't care where they are from, perhaps from Mikwaukee. "Some people say" they were from Mikwaukee. I say they were from Milwaukee. Fix the problem, where they were from is not a problem.
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WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHERE THEY ARE FROM?
Are they from Russia? Ireland? Who cares? Are we saying that only people from the third ward can demonstrate? Perhaps only from one or two blocks. I don't care where they are from, perhaps from Mikwaukee. "Some people say" they were from Mikwaukee. I say they were from Milwaukee. Fix the problem, where they were from is not a problem.
It matters because those being arrested are most likely the ones who are committing crimes versus the thousands who are protesting legally. And if the ones who who are commiting crimes, are purposely traveling to a state, to commit said crimes, doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to see their motive.
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Not a surprise, and not anything new...the Minnesota Governor this morning said at least 80% of the 40 plus people arrested in Minneapolis and St. Paul (data not in yet from other local geographies) were not from the area. This has been going on a long time in other incidents and geographies as well.
GREAT, it is a national problem, therefore, people are from everywhere.
Are you saying that I can't demonstrate in NYC because I live in New Jersey?
Then so much for being an American. You would be suprised how many Milwaukee and Chicago white people went to Alabama and Mississippi to demonstrate for civil rights in the '60's. Now we deem that unacceptable?
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It matters because those being arrested are most likely the ones who are committing crimes versus the thousands who are protesting legally. And if the ones who who are commiting crimes, are purposely traveling to a state, to commit said crimes, doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to see their motive.
MOTIVE. To draw attention to police brutality? Being willing to risk their lives, get arrested, start fires, use violance against violance? My hats off to them. They show more guts than the socalled been nowhere, done nothing white supremacist militias.
BTW, I wonder how many of those trouble makers where white?
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GREAT, it is a national problem, therefore, people are from everywhere.
Are you saying that I can't demonstrate in NYC because I live in New Jersey?
Then so much for being an American. You would be suprised how many Milwaukee and Chicago white people went to Alabama and Mississippi to demonstrate for civil rights in the '60's. Now we deem that unacceptable?
I think the inference is that people are committing acts of violence to co-opt the moment and steer it in a direction that serves ends that may not be shared with the community at large.
It would be analogous to Milwaukee and Chicago white individuals going to march at Selma with the express purpose of goading the police into retaliating against the otherwise peaceful protesters.
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Indeed, if an individual, group, or country is interested in weakening America (further) .. this is a golden opportunity.
We've seen it online with tremendous volumes of disinformation, hired by outside actors .. it's just not a great leap to bring it to the real world and create chaos.
Worst week of 2020 ... so far.
Love it, the victim is guilty.
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Love it, the victim is guilty.
No, the looters and the people burning buildings to the ground are guilty.
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I think the inference is that people are committing acts of violence to co-opt the moment and steer it in a direction that serves ends that may not be shared with the community at large.
It would be analogous to Milwaukee and Chicago white individuals going to march at Selma with the express purpose of goading the police into retaliating against the otherwise peaceful protesters.
Where do you come up with that "analogy"? We have had 60 years to fix the problem, the problem, institutional racism, has gotten worse.
I can see how some people see the problem as looting, I don't.
Now the M.P.s, you must be kidding. They are traffic cops, 30 in a 25, please. Good at guard duty, snappy salutes at the guard shack. Our president, a been nowhere done nothing fake, get's his rambo from watching t.v. and action movies. This might get very interesting.
Love watching the rubes doing their thing.
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There undoubtedly are sh*tty people of all races and political persuasions from all over the country and maybe world (looking at you, Russia) seeking to take advantage of this moment for their own ends, whether that be plain old criminal activity or fomenting civil unrest.
As bad as that is, it would be worse to let it be a distraction from the just motives behind the legitimate protests or the systemic failures that have led to them. And that's already what's happening.
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No, the looters and the people burning buildings to the ground are guilty.
Guilty of what?
Drawing attention to repeated injustice.
The list is long, the hurt is real, the crimes against blacks are unconscionable.
The crimes of looting and burning can't compare to the murders.
False equivalency.
If someone can't see that, I can't ever convince them.
It will take another generation or more.
Like Mosses in the wilderness, it takes 40 years, if you are lucky.
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There undoubtedly are sh*tty people of all races and political persuasions from all over the country and maybe world (looking at you, Russia) seeking to take advantage of this moment for their own ends, whether that be plain old criminal activity or fomenting civil unrest.
As bad as that is, it would be worse to let it be a distraction from the just motives behind the legitimate protests or the systemic failures that have led to them. And that's already what's happening.
With all do respect, yada, yada, yada.
If you take a knee at a football game you lose.
If you burn down a police station you lose.
If you drive while black you lose.
I'm a nobody.
I live in exurban New Jersey.
I worked with a former Marine, like myself.
He was blown off a 4 by in Vietnam.
Did a number on his knee, had it replaced.
The driver was killed by the mine.
My friend would not visit me in New Jersey because he did not trust the police.
Most of you have no idea what we are dealing with. With all do respect.
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No, the looters and the people burning buildings to the ground are guilty.
I go to Newark a lot, the buildings can be rebuilt. The "stuff" can be replaced. The dead are dead for all eternity. I understand how some people will never understand. It will take generations to change the deep seated "views".
Power is very hard to give up. Privilege is very comfortable. Self righteousness is difficult to identify.
Until the police love the people and not the job, we will continue to suffer as a people.
The rule of law has to be for all, not just the store owner.
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An idea. Stop worrying about what some dumba$$ celebrity does or what some 16 year old girl says. Worry about fixing the problem.
As mentioned earlier, high profile black athletes who were peacefully protesting these issues, were booed, threatened and had their livelihood taken away. So *that* didn't work.
So when is the problem going to be fixed instead of old, suburban white guys simply quoting MLK out of context and lecturing people on how they should protest?
well that was a lot of help...i didn't post anything suggesting i knew what the answers were. just some observations. not really worried about what and who are saying. and i'm not real invested in "fixing" the problem either. they sure in the hell ain't gonna take my calls anyway unless i tell them sultan sent me
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There undoubtedly are sh*tty people of all races and political persuasions from all over the country and maybe world (looking at you, Russia) seeking to take advantage of this moment for their own ends, whether that be plain old criminal activity or fomenting civil unrest.
As bad as that is, it would be worse to let it be a distraction from the just motives behind the legitimate protests or the systemic failures that have led to them. And that's already what's happening.
You're almost there brother. Keep it up and you may see the light. We can celebrate when it happens, "what's happening".
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Indeed, if an individual, group, or country is interested in weakening America (further) .. this is a golden opportunity.
We've seen it online with tremendous volumes of disinformation, hired by outside actors .. it's just not a great leap to bring it to the real world and create chaos.
Worst week of 2020 ... so far.
"So far" and the best is yet to come.
Don't get confused by outside actors, inside actors.
Just count the dead guys, they tell the story, no need to be an inside or outside actor.
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"there are a lot of people out there that think what the police did was perfectly ok."
the mississippi mayor is wrong and doubled down and is still wrong. but i'm sorry forget, your statement is like saying there are a lot of people who think God is evil too, but to me, those people aren't worth the time to acknowledge.
a big problem with society today is people who cannot acknowledge bad is bad is bad as opposed to those who have different standards depending on what jersey they wear
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As long as they don’t take a knee during the national anthem, I’m good with rioting
Right on brother, game on.
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Time for the old man to take a brat brake.
Time for a little prayer and meditation.
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Have seen Killer Mike many times on Bill Maher and other programs. He is highly intelligent and he cares deeply about our country.
Yet another leader doing a better job in a crisis than the leader of the free world did.
come on mikey, enough of your hate toward potus. we know you aren't a fan but quit trolling those who may believe differently. if potus were to walk out in the rose garden and say stop the stupidity and violence and it were heeded, you guys would still find the hate. regardless of how hard you push your hate, you aren't going to change many(if any minds) especially during this. all you guys did was move from criticizing his leadership on covid to now this...go to a meeting or something
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and i'm not real invested in "fixing" the problem either.
At least you are honest about you uncaring attitude. I guess it’s better than feigning interest.
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In a FB group I am in, a woman who works in a dental office in Minneapolis posted that basically the police appear to have gone on ‘strike’. She said that they do not appear to be under the control or command of either the mayor or the chief. She said they are upset that the four officers were immediately fired, and furious at comments by the governor and the mayor, and so they basically have gone on strike. People nowhere near the riot area are boarding up.
If they are furious that the four were fired and are refusing to do their job, then they ALL fall under the heading of Bad Cops. If she is correct, fire them all.
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come on mikey, enough of your hate toward potus. we know you aren't a fan but quit trolling those who may believe differently. if potus were to walk out in the rose garden and say stop the stupidity and violence and it were heeded, you guys would still find the hate. regardless of how hard you push your hate, you aren't going to change many(if any minds) especially during this. all you guys did was move from criticizing his leadership on covid to now this...go to a meeting or something
Did you watch the video?
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come on mikey, enough of your hate toward potus. we know you aren't a fan but quit trolling those who may believe differently. if potus were to walk out in the rose garden and say stop the stupidity and violence and it were heeded, you guys would still find the hate. regardless of how hard you push your hate, you aren't going to change many(if any minds) especially during this. all you guys did was move from criticizing his leadership on covid to now this...go to a meeting or something
This coming from someone who still brings up the former POTUS and calls him by Hussein instead of Barack to make a connection to a horrible dictator. Come on rocket you of all people telling someone to lay off the hate of the POTUS is hypocritical.
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This coming from someone who still brings up the former POTUS and calls him by Hussein instead of Barack to make a connection to a horrible dictator. Come on rocket you of all people telling someone to lay off the hate of the POTUS is hypocritical.
Small correction. He calls Obama “Hussein” as a way to continue the myth that he he is Muslim, not because of Iraq’s former leader. Otherwise yes, he is an absolute hypocrite.
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vouge65 .. you are way off base. No one is saying there aren't victims, no one is saying people don't have the right to protest, no one is saying you can't protest in another city.
Many are there to protest, strengthen, and demand improvements to our society going forward.
It's also clear there are others whose motivation is simply chaos, aimed at destruction and the weakening all of us.
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So apparently White Nationalist groups are going in to Minnesota, destroying and looting businesses, particularly black owned businesses, in an organized manner.
Pretty disgusting.
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If you mean getting rid of the rascist cops in these cities and the union that protects them, then yes. I agree with you.
But I doubt that's what you mean.
Lots of corruption in the unions/organized labor. Unions should ultimately be done away with. Collusion isn’t allowed on business side of things. Why should at Will employees have the ability to collude against their employer?
Further, all private sector businesses ultimately are competing for the best talent. Businesses that win and sustain are those who attract and retain the best talent. That doesn’t happen if you exploit and treat your employees poorly.
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At least you are honest about you uncaring attitude. I guess it’s better than feigning interest.
can you read? not a word about"uncaring" said i wasn't "invested" gotta let go and trust those in power to get this thing under control. in other words, it's out of my hands. don't try to label me as someone i'm not
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This coming from someone who still brings up the former POTUS and calls him by Hussein instead of Barack to make a connection to a horrible dictator. Come on rocket you of all people telling someone to lay off the hate of the POTUS is hypocritical.
yes, i have but not day after day after...and on and on and...even though we got rid of politics section, these covid threads have given many free shots at potus when there is much blame to go around
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Small correction. He calls Obama “Hussein” as a way to continue the myth that he he is Muslim, not because of Iraq’s former leader. Otherwise yes, he is an absolute hypocrite.
another swing and a miss...it's his middle name. how the hell do you know what's in my head? is your name "warrior" because you disrespect native americans? move along, nothing to see here
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So apparently White Nationalist groups are going in to Minnesota, destroying and looting businesses, particularly black owned businesses, in an organized manner.
Pretty disgusting.
Agree. Just as disgusting as the “protesters” looting random business with no regard whatsoever for the ownership.
Sadly this was the rare officer involved killing where there was unanimous disgust. Now with what’s happened these rioters/looters only serve to perpetuate the worst of stereotypes (held by some) of Blacks in America.
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another swing and a miss...it's his middle name.
ah ... that explains why you always call the current president "john," as you believe that using the middle name is a way to show respect to our chief executive. fair enough.
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vouge65 .. you are way off base. No one is saying there aren't victims, no one is saying people don't have the right to protest, no one is saying you can't protest in another city.
Many are there to protest, strengthen, and demand improvements to our society going forward.
It's also clear there are others whose motivation is simply chaos, aimed at destruction and the weakening all of us.
Yes they are. Not in so many words, but they are. As I said, what difference does it make where the demonstrators come from. You sir are way off base.
My contention is that the "chaos" is a good thing. If the end, reform, is achieved. The end justifies the means.
They/we have tried the Mr. Nice guy approach, it has not worked. Why not burn some crap buildings?
Cant hurt, might help.
This is not about Minneapolis or this event it is about the patern of behavior of the police toward black folks, nationally.
It is about the criminal justice system, black incarceration, black unemployment, black health care, black housing, Flint, Ferguson, Atlanta, right to carry, vigilantism, and police brutality. It is about a lot more than Minneapolis.
You want me to kiss ass and say it is all about lawless looting. Well I don't think like a self-righteous, privileged white dude from suburbia.
Put another way, I don't live in fear of black people.
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So apparently White Nationalist groups are going in to Minnesota, destroying and looting businesses, particularly black owned businesses, in an organized manner.
Pretty disgusting.
If true I am very surprised.
My experience with these dress up bikers is that they are cowards and probably scared to death of cops and blacks.
American flag dew rags, black boots, and tattooed they are nothing but all time losers.
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vouge65 .. you are way off base. No one is saying there aren't victims, no one is saying people don't have the right to protest, no one is saying you can't protest in another city.
Many are there to protest, strengthen, and demand improvements to our society going forward.
It's also clear there are others whose motivation is simply chaos, aimed at destruction and the weakening all of us.
Yep. Vogue is basically here to argue for the sake of arguing.
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ah ... that explains why you always call the current president "john," as you believe that using the middle name is a way to show respect to our chief executive. fair enough.
Mt. Rushmore of 2020 posts
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If true I am very surprised.
My experience with these dress up bikers is that they are cowards and probably scared to death of cops and blacks.
American flag dew rags, black boots, and tattooed they are nothing but all time losers.
You can find many more clips like this:
https://twitter.com/angelanissel/status/1266739446558257152?s=21
This is the darkest timeline
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Yes they are. Not in so many words, but they are. As I said, what difference does it make where the demonstrators come from. You sir are way off base.
My contention is that the "chaos" is a good thing. If the end, reform, is achieved. The end justifies the means.
They/we have tried the Mr. Nice guy approach, it has not worked. Why not burn some crap buildings?
Cant hurt, might help.
This is not about Minneapolis or this event it is about the patern of behavior of the police toward black folks, nationally.
It is about the criminal justice system, black incarceration, black unemployment, black health care, black housing, Flint, Ferguson, Atlanta, right to carry, vigilantism, and police brutality. It is about a lot more than Minneapolis.
You want me to kiss ass and say it is all about lawless looting. Well I don't think like a self-righteous, privileged white dude from suburbia.
Put another way, I don't live in fear of black people.
Here's what people don't want to come out and say. There is a problem within Black America that has it committing exponentially more violent crime than any other race...which of course leads to more police encounters. There is racism and there is realism.
Violent crime = Murder, Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault. The numbers:
Percentage of U.S population = Black: 13.4% in 2019
Percentage of total violent crimes in US committed by Blacks? 37.5%
You commit the worst crimes, you end up in jail. This isn't "unfair policing" or incarceration.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
The U.S has the 33rd highest rate of killing by police per 10 million persons. The countries that comprise 1-32..virtually all are in South America/Africa. Is the evil white man to blame there too?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country
Of course the above facts never get reported on the news as in some twisted way that would be considered "racist."
Last thought, if white people are so evil and the devil, why is that immigration into Anglo societies exponentially exceeds that into countries of other races? Does saying this make me a "racist white supremacist?" Or again, is it simply realism?
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Here's what people don't want to come out and say. There is a problem within Black America that has it committing exponentially more violent crime than any other race...which of course leads to more police encounters. There is racism and there is realism.
Violent crime = Murder, Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault. The numbers:
Percentage of U.S population = Black: 13.4% in 2019
Percentage of total violent crimes in US committed by Blacks? 37.5%
You commit the worst crimes, you end up in jail. This isn't "unfair policing" or incarceration.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
The U.S has the 33rd highest rate of killing by police per 10 million persons. The countries that comprise 1-32..virtually all are in South America/Africa. Is the evil white man to blame there too?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country
Of course the above facts never get reported on the news as in some twisted way that would be considered "racist."
Last thought, if white people are so evil and the devil, why is that immigration into Anglo societies exponentially exceeds that into countries of other races? Does saying this make me a "racist white supremacist?" Or again, is it simply realism?
Way to Brita this topic...good christ (I’ve been on a Community binge)
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Way to Brita this topic...good christ (I’ve been on a Community binge)
No idea what your point is, but certainly would welcome your criticism/correction of the factual post made above. Please. Go ahead.
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can you read? not a word about"uncaring" said i wasn't "invested" gotta let go and trust those in power to get this thing under control. in other words, it's out of my hands. don't try to label me as someone i'm not
The exact attitude of why white males don’t have to worry about being murdered by police while black males do. “I can’t do anything so not my problem!”
It’s everyone’s problem.
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Agree. Just as disgusting as the “protesters” looting random business with no regard whatsoever for the ownership.
Sadly this was the rare officer involved killing where there was unanimous disgust. Now with what’s happened these rioters/looters only serve to perpetuate the worst of stereotypes (held by some) of Blacks in America.
I guess you didn't understand that apparently the "protesters looting" are outside influences affiliated with white nationalists gross. Apparently for the purpose of perpetuating the stereotype you assign to the "protesters". I guess their plan worked for you.
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Here's what people don't want to come out and say. There is a problem within Black America that has it committing exponentially more violent crime than any other race...which of course leads to more police encounters. There is racism and there is realism.
Violent crime = Murder, Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault. The numbers:
Percentage of U.S population = Black: 13.4% in 2019
Percentage of total violent crimes in US committed by Blacks? 37.5%
You commit the worst crimes, you end up in jail. This isn't "unfair policing" or incarceration.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
The U.S has the 33rd highest rate of killing by police per 10 million persons. The countries that comprise 1-32..virtually all are in South America/Africa. Is the evil white man to blame there too?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country
Of course the above facts never get reported on the news as in some twisted way that would be considered "racist."
Last thought, if white people are so evil and the devil, why is that immigration into Anglo societies exponentially exceeds that into countries of other races? Does saying this make me a "racist white supremacist?" Or again, is it simply realism?
Yes. It’s all the black people’s fault. If they just comply then bad things don’t happen.
Oh wait...
I honestly shouldn’t be surprised that this is the attitude a huge number of people take given what’s continuing to go on in the country. But it still shocks me. Truly in unbearable. Pull your head out of the sand and open your freaking eyes.
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Yep. Vogue is basically here to argue for the sake of arguing.
Not so, perhaps my points are too radical, too different, too outside the Scoop box. I don't care if you understand me, I don't try and win any useless arguments. I have most of you on ignore anyway.
I listen to your small minded, argumentative, defensive, blathering. Mostly baseless talking points, white culture attitudes and just let it go. No need to argue.
Keep up with the stale points of view. Keep living in your echo chamber, argue with your selves, I don't argue, thank you very much.
I have been very fortunate to have worked for 25 years witin an organization which was half black. I'm retired and I miss my black co-workers and the black culture. Some blacks don't like white folks, some blacks don't like other blacks, some blacks didn't like me, that's life. Some blacks were Republicans, some didn't vote, all had hightened intuition about people.
Where I look to argue for the sake of arguing is beyond me. To share ideas, experiences, knowledge, I get, to argue, I don't get. It takes two to argue or a few more to bullie.
Please, put me on ignore if you think I want to argue, if my views bother you. That would end your discomfort.
If you have something new to say, please say it, I'm all ears.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CAxyMu5gYO-/?igshid=u0dwryvxdnux
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Here's what people don't want to come out and say. There is a problem within Black America that has it committing exponentially more violent crime than any other race...which of course leads to more police encounters. There is racism and there is realism.
Violent crime = Murder, Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault. The numbers:
Percentage of U.S population = Black: 13.4% in 2019
Percentage of total violent crimes in US committed by Blacks? 37.5%
You commit the worst crimes, you end up in jail. This isn't "unfair policing" or incarceration.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
The U.S has the 33rd highest rate of killing by police per 10 million persons. The countries that comprise 1-32..virtually all are in South America/Africa. Is the evil white man to blame there too?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country
Of course the above facts never get reported on the news as in some twisted way that would be considered "racist."
Last thought, if white people are so evil and the devil, why is that immigration into Anglo societies exponentially exceeds that into countries of other races? Does saying this make me a "racist white supremacist?" Or again, is it simply realism?
What does that have to do with police brutality?
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CAxyMu5gYO-/?igshid=u0dwryvxdnux
You apparently don't know your history.
Try starting with the Pullman strike, the Irish potato famine, 1937 UAW strike and riot, 1863 draft riots, 1968 Chicago Police Riot, 1891 New Orleans 11 Italians killed by mob. Riots are not my strong suit, but there have been plenty of white riots, just not recently.
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Not so, perhaps my points are too radical, too different, too outside the Scoop box. I don't care if you understand me, I don't try and win any useless arguments. I have most of you on ignore anyway.
I listen to your small minded, argumentative, defensive, blathering. Mostly baseless talking points, white culture attitudes and just let it go. No need to argue.
Keep up with the stale points of view. Keep living in your echo chamber, argue with your selves, I don't argue, thank you very much.
I have been very fortunate to have worked for 25 years witin an organization which was half black. I'm retired and I miss my black co-workers and the black culture. Some blacks don't like white folks, some blacks don't like other blacks, some blacks didn't like me, that's life. Some blacks were Republicans, some didn't vote, all had hightened intuition about people.
Where I look to argue for the sake of arguing is beyond me. To share ideas, experiences, knowledge, I get, to argue, I don't get. It takes two to argue or a few more to bullie.
Please, but me on ignore if you think I want to argue, if my views bother you. That would end your discomfort.
If you have something new to say, please say it, I'm all ears.
Ahh the classic “you don’t agree with me, so you’re sheltered and closed minded and don’t know AA people like I do. And if you do present legit counter arguments, I’ll ignore them and say I’m not here to argue like I’ve done countless times”
You’re right, you don’t argue. You talk down to everyone in here except those that re-articulate one of your exact points.
“I have most of you on ignore...but I’m here for intelligent and open minded discussion”. You’re a riot, no pun intended. Thank you for blessing us with your wisdom and experience, I’d never be able to have a true AA point of view without you spoon feeding it to me.
In other news, even if you don’t always agree with him politically or ideologically, Killer Mike is the man. Incredible innovative musician, no BS champion for his community and his beliefs, and someone you’d love to have in your corner
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Ahh the classic “you don’t agree with me, so you’re sheltered and closed minded and don’t know AA people like I do. And if you do present legit counter arguments, I’ll ignore them and say I’m not here to argue like I’ve done countless times”
You’re right, you don’t argue. You talk down to everyone in here except those that re-articulate one of your exact points.
Yep. Call it arguing, or call it talking down to people. Either way, it really is sad to see someone so desperately in need of validation.
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Here's what people don't want to come out and say. There is a problem within Black America that has it committing exponentially more violent crime than any other race...which of course leads to more police encounters. There is racism and there is realism.
Congrats on going to White-Nationalist talking points.
Here is realism and fact for you. If you do a cross-sectional analysis of crime in America. What you find is that the incidence of violent crime is race-blind. What dictates increased rates of violent crime is poverty.
In poor desperate neighborhoods, violent crime rates are high, and it is universal regardless of the color of your skin.
It is true, that due to centuries of systemic racism, that African Americans suffer poverty more often in our nation. That is a sad reality.
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Yep. Call it arguing, or call it talking down to people. Either way, it really is sad to see someone so desperately in need of validation.
Talking down to some of you is really easy.
Where does validation come from?
That's a new one on me.
Just because some people have more life experiences, education, body of knowledge or insight does not mean they have to act like a dummy.
The latest, Queens, Flushing is boarding up in anticipation of a night of mob violence.
NYPD will be half its normal size next year because of lack of funds from Covid and tax losses.
The chickens are comming home to roost.
Now, is that talking down?
Is that a cry for validation?
Is that argumentative?
You tell me.
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You apparently don't know your history.
Try starting with the Pullman strike, the Irish potato famine, 1937 UAW strike and riot, 1863 draft riots, 1968 Chicago Police Riot, 1891 New Orleans 11 Italians killed by mob. Riots are not my strong suit, but there have been plenty of white riots, just not recently.
I really don't think as many people here are matching the aggressive rhetoric as you think. The usual suspects are trolling, but everyone else is pretty much on the same side of this one. You're swinging at people you agree with here.
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Congrats on going to White-Nationalist talking points.
Here is realism and fact for you. If you do a cross-sectional analysis of crime in America. What you find is that the incidence of violent crime is race-blind. What dictates increased rates of violent crime is poverty.
In poor desperate neighborhoods, violent crime rates are high, and it is universal regardless of the color of your skin.
It is true, that due to centuries of systemic racism, that African Americans suffer poverty more often in our nation. That is a sad reality.
Thank you.
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I really don't think as many people here are matching the aggressive rhetoric as you think. The usual suspects are trolling, but everyone else is pretty much on the same side of this one. You're swinging at people you agree with here.
If so, sorry.
Yes, I have been swinging very hard. Not good for my Afib.
There are only a few topics that get me going and this is one.
I'LL have to let some of the high balls go.
Thanks
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Ahh the classic “you don’t agree with me, so you’re sheltered and closed minded and don’t know AA people like I do. And if you do present legit counter arguments, I’ll ignore them and say I’m not here to argue like I’ve done countless times”
You’re right, you don’t argue. You talk down to everyone in here except those that re-articulate one of your exact points.
“I have most of you on ignore...but I’m here for intelligent and open minded discussion”. You’re a riot, no pun intended. Thank you for blessing us with your wisdom and experience, I’d never be able to have a true AA point of view without you spoon feeding it to me.
In other news, even if you don’t always agree with him politically or ideologically, Killer Mike is the man. Incredible innovative musician, no BS champion for his community and his beliefs, and someone you’d love to have in your corner
You got that right. No argument from me.
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Here's what people don't want to come out and say. There is a problem within Black America that has it committing exponentially more violent crime than any other race...which of course leads to more police encounters. There is racism and there is realism.
Hey guys, we've found the white supremacist
Oh, wait ... I mean the "race realist." Isn't that what Richard Spencer preaches also? I bet you're also big on human biodiversity, aren't you?
foregetful already has pointed out most of your stupidity - and make no mistake, your beliefs are stupid. Not just wrong, but lacking in intelligence.
But something forgetful didn't address was your list of countries with more killings by police ... of the 31 above the U.S., every one is a poor, third world country wracked by corruption and poverty. Nations absolutely none of us what ours to be associated with you (well, maybe you?). The nations closest to us on that list ... Swaziland, Rwanda, Mexico, Bangladesh, Pakistan. This is the company we're keeping. And you seem to have no problem with it.
Comparing the U.S. to its peers:
U.S. - 28.4 cop killings per 10 million.
Canada - 9.7
France - 3.8
Australia - 1.7
Germany - 1.3
U.K. - 0.5
And yes, in fact, nearly all of the nations' ahead of the U.S. had had their development - past and in some cases present - stunted by Western influences.
Except South Africa. You were spot on when you said white men had nothing to do with that country's struggles.
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If so, sorry.
Yes, I have been swinging very hard. Not good for my Afib.
There are only a few topics that get me going and this is one.
I'LL have to let some of the high balls go.
Thanks
All good man. I know what it's like to get spun up. It's too easy online without vocal inflection and facial cues to misread tone and intent. Been there before, will be there again.
Of all the things to be pissed about though, this is a pretty good one.
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All good man. I know what it's like to get spun up. It's too easy online without vocal inflection and facial cues to misread tone and intent. Been there before, will be there again.
Of all the things to be pissed about though, this is a pretty good one.
I have a friend who says I like to poke the bear, he is probably right.
Doesn't basketball seem a very long time ago?
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I have a friend who says I like to poke the bear, he is probably right.
Doesn't basketball seem a very long time ago?
And a very, very, long way away.
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Congrats on going to White-Nationalist talking points.
Here is realism and fact for you. If you do a cross-sectional analysis of crime in America. What you find is that the incidence of violent crime is race-blind. What dictates increased rates of violent crime is poverty.
In poor desperate neighborhoods, violent crime rates are high, and it is universal regardless of the color of your skin.
It is true, that due to centuries of systemic racism, that African Americans suffer poverty more often in our nation. That is a sad reality.
I would purport that poverty is a function of broken households, substance abuse, and lack of education. We've got affirmative action, special loan and grants programs available to minorities..for the better part of 40 years, yet things have seemingly gotten worse. What also doesn't get said enough is that there are millions of successful Blacks in America. It isn't some kind of impossibility. Yet from your perspective, your beliefs perpetuate this notion of the "system" being stacked against blacks. Your belief creates the belief among Blacks that if they don't get a job, get fired, etc., it must be because they are Black. What an awful narrative to perpetuate.
Hey guys, we've found the white supremacist
Oh, wait ... I mean the "race realist." Isn't that what Richard Spencer preaches also? I bet you're also big on human biodiversity, aren't you?
foregetful already has pointed out most of your stupidity - and make no mistake, your beliefs are stupid. Not just wrong, but lacking in intelligence.
But something forgetful didn't address was your list of countries with more killings by police ... of the 31 above the U.S., every one is a poor, third world country wracked by corruption and poverty. Nations absolutely none of us what ours to be associated with you (well, maybe you?). The nations closest to us on that list ... Swaziland, Rwanda, Mexico, Bangladesh, Pakistan. This is the company we're keeping. And you seem to have no problem with it.
Comparing the U.S. to its peers:
U.S. - 28.4 cop killings per 10 million.
Canada - 9.7
France - 3.8
Australia - 1.7
Germany - 1.3
U.K. - 0.5
And yes, in fact, nearly all of the nations' ahead of the U.S. had had their development - past and in some cases present - stunted by Western influences.
Except South Africa. You were spot on when you said white men had nothing to do with that country's struggles.
For real? At some point, perhaps after 200 years from the time of the development being "stunted by Western influence" a continent should be able to recover. Or do you just feel the African continent isn't capable? So this day Anglos are responsible for the corruption and poverty in all of those countries with higher rates of killing by police?
Quite frankly it is people with the point of view of you and forgetful that are the Racists. You don't believe Blacks can succeed on their own without artificial stimulus. Yet there are far too many whom have succeeded, which therefore renders your position wrong, ignorant and racist.
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Jail records show vast majority of those arrested in Minnesota riots are in-state residents.
https://www.kare11.com/mobile/article/news/investigations/kare-11-investigates-records-show-arrests-mostly-minnesotans-as-george-floyd-protests-riots-continue-minneapolis-st-paul/89-73f3e0e8-0664-41d5-8d3e-4467d04da7cb
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I would purport that poverty is a function of broken households, substance abuse, and lack of education. We've got affirmative action, special loan and grants programs available to minorities..for the better part of 40 years, yet things have seemingly gotten worse. What also doesn't get said enough is that there are millions of successful Blacks in America. It isn't some kind of impossibility. Yet from your perspective, your beliefs perpetuate this notion of the "system" being stacked against blacks. Your belief creates the belief among Blacks that if they don't get a job, get fired, etc., it must be because they are Black. What an awful narrative to perpetuate.
For real? At some point, perhaps after 200 years from the time of the development being "stunted by Western influence" a continent should be able to recover. Or do you just feel the African continent isn't capable? So this day Anglos are responsible for the corruption and poverty in all of those countries with higher rates of killing by police?
Quite frankly it is people with the point of view of you and forgetful that are the Racists. You don't believe Blacks can succeed on their own without artificial stimulus. Yet there are far too many whom have succeeded, which therefore renders your position wrong, ignorant and racist.
Your beliefs remain dumb and dangerous.
White rule in Africa ended 200 years ago? Christ, read a history book.
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https://youtu.be/7im330R4d-Q
Something Ners desperately needs to watch. Not that it’ll change anything.
I honestly can’t believe there are educated people that believe everyone has the same chance at success in life in America.
This guy says it better than I can.
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Wow.
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So apparently White Nationalist groups are going in to Minnesota, destroying and looting businesses, particularly black owned businesses, in an organized manner.
Pretty disgusting.
Apparently this is another conspiracy theory that is wrong. Similar to the claim it was a St Paul cop smashing windows.
There will be some WN’s as there always are causing problems. Probably some Antifa members as well. Those two love to be together. The astroturfing going on by both sides which has gone on for years and years continues with the blame game. If you are suggesting white nationalists are the ones behind the the rioting and looting you may want to go back to YouTube and watch the destruction the first three nights. Those Rioters are not white nationalists. There may be WNs and Antifa coming in now, but this sounds like another wild crazy Twitter crazed theory.
Watch the video of the poor African American firefighter in tears as his sports bar is destroyed that he had setup for retirement. It is gut wrenching.
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Your beliefs remain dumb and dangerous.
The feeling is mutual Pak.
https://youtu.be/7im330R4d-Q
Something Ners desperately needs to watch. Not that it’ll change anything.
I honestly can’t believe there are educated people that believe everyone has the same chance at success in life in America.
This guy says it better than I can.
Have seen it. I understand it. But you, me, the government can't fix the problem. People fix their own problems. When you are born without a father present, that creates a major challenge. When a woman has multiple children with multiple men, when the men rarely stick around, that creates a problem. This is true of any race. Unfortunately, it happens at a greater rate within Black America. So those kids start the "race" well behind those who have two parent households. And, the government can't manufacture a two person household. Further "family values" and religion have been frequently ridiculed by the liberal left. Both are anchoring mechanisms.
Empathy is great. But that doesn't get a person anywhere. In fact, if people consistently feel sorry (which empathy can closely parallel) for a person, that person will always feel they are a victim/can't succeed.
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The feeling is mutual Pak.
Have seen it. I understand it. But you, me, the government can't fix the problem. People fix their own problems. When you are born without a father present, that creates a major challenge. When a woman has multiple children with multiple men, when the men rarely stick around, that creates a problem. This is true of any race. Unfortunately, it happens at a greater rate within Black America. So those kids start the "race" well behind those who have two parent households. And, the government can't manufacture a two person household. Further "family values" and religion have been frequently ridiculed by the liberal left. Both are anchoring mechanisms.
Empathy is great. But that doesn't get a person anywhere. In fact, if people consistently feel sorry (which empathy can closely parallel) for a person, that person will always feel they are a victim/can't succeed.
Yeah, like I said, “not that it’ll help.”
Watch the video of a black man complying with police officers and being choked to death. Watch an unarmed black young adult being chased down by white men and murdered. They are victims. Pull your head out of the sand. Truly unbelievable.
“We” can’t “fix things” for “them.” The government can’t “fix things” for “them.” You know what “we” can do but don’t? “We” can treat “them” like they’re part of “we.” But “we” don’t. “We” just assume that they’re up to no good because black people don’t live in this neighborhood, so “we” assume they were the thieves and “we” take it upon “ourselves” to get “justice” by murdering them.
“We” don’t need to “fix things” for “them.” “We” need to fix things for the “we” and stop pretending it’s not “we” that is the problem, it’s “them” and the violence that “they” just cannot stop themselves from doing. “They” don’t need “we” to feel sorry for them. “They” need to be treated with the minimal amount of respect any human deserves. That’s all “they” need.
Truly unbelievable. You and the many like you that actually think this way are the issue.
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In other news, even if you don’t always agree with him politically or ideologically, Killer Mike is the man. Incredible innovative musician, no BS champion for his community and his beliefs, and someone you’d love to have in your corner
Spot on. Killer Mike IS the man. Everyone shot listen to what he said yesterday.
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Spot on. Killer Mike IS the man. Everyone shot listen to what he said yesterday.
His comments yesterday were amazing to listen to.
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Spot on. Killer Mike IS the man. Everyone shot listen to what he said yesterday.
I first heard of him when he was a Bernie Bro in 2016.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUhup7uW4AMZGlm.jpg)
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Apparently this is another conspiracy theory that is wrong. Similar to the claim it was a St Paul cop smashing windows.
There will be some WN’s as there always are causing problems. Probably some Antifa members as well. Those two love to be together. The astroturfing going on by both sides which has gone on for years and years continues with the blame game. If you are suggesting white nationalists are the ones behind the the rioting and looting you may want to go back to YouTube and watch the destruction the first three nights. Those Rioters are not white nationalists. There may be WNs and Antifa coming in now, but this sounds like another wild crazy Twitter crazed theory.
Watch the video of the poor African American firefighter in tears as his sports bar is destroyed that he had setup for retirement. It is gut wrenching.
Last night in my city it was the local Youth Liberation Front, an anarchist group of white dudes who think Bernie is too moderate. Looting the Apple store, Louis Vuitton, Target, Nordstrom Rack. You know, for George Floyd. Nothing instigated by the police either, just wanton destruction. Went and saw it today, it was bad. Ready for more tonight. On both sides there are extremists using the unrest to carry out senseless violence and destruction. Sickening.
In Atlanta, what does looting the College Football HOF achieve for social justice? What did setting a Chase branch on fire advance?
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I first heard of him when he was a Bernie Bro in 2016.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUhup7uW4AMZGlm.jpg)
To be fair, i would call him a Bernie Unit. Dude is huge.
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I would purport that poverty is a function of broken households, substance abuse, and lack of education. We've got affirmative action, special loan and grants programs available to minorities..for the better part of 40 years, yet things have seemingly gotten worse. What also doesn't get said enough is that there are millions of successful Blacks in America. It isn't some kind of impossibility. Yet from your perspective, your beliefs perpetuate this notion of the "system" being stacked against blacks. Your belief creates the belief among Blacks that if they don't get a job, get fired, etc., it must be because they are Black. What an awful narrative to perpetuate.
For real? At some point, perhaps after 200 years from the time of the development being "stunted by Western influence" a continent should be able to recover. Or do you just feel the African continent isn't capable? So this day Anglos are responsible for the corruption and poverty in all of those countries with higher rates of killing by police?
Quite frankly it is people with the point of view of you and forgetful that are the Racists. You don't believe Blacks can succeed on their own without artificial stimulus. Yet there are far too many whom have succeeded, which therefore renders your position wrong, ignorant and racist.
My first post and I may get banned.
I don’t know if Elon has literally ever spent any time in a predominantly low-income black neighborhood. I suspect not, but people can put all sorts of blinders on, so who knows. The point is this:
There is a reason why the term, “made it out” is frequently used when referring to successful African Americans from these neighborhoods. They are set up for failure. Bad schools, terrible job opportunities, lack of generational family structure, etc. I don’t give two rats asses about loan and grant programs, which sound great on face but without true reform will provide minimal lasting socio-economic improvements in this setting. Great sound bites and failsafe argument bait, but like throwing cups of water at a house fire.
Lack of education..yes. A lack of education would be associated with violent crimes. Why is there a lack of education? Is it centuries of institutional racism that have lead to underfunding of urban public school systems? 100%. Do I feel that in Barrington Illinois, where I am happy to have my property taxes hiked so that my kids can have better facilities, teachers, and experiences? No. Is that realistic in Chicago? Are the elites in lakeview happy to have their taxes raised so that the CPL can make improvements? No, bc the vast majority of those families are sending their kids to private schools.
No one has to convince the black community that they have an excuse, or perpetuate a narrative as you say. There is truth and there is spin. If black folks can’t get a job, it could very well be because they haven’t had the education, the mentorship, the privilege of many of us. It could also be straight up racism. But in reality, it’s not either or, it’s all of the above. No one making excuses, just examining the situation.
Also, your an pretty boy.
Ban me now
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Ahh the classic “you don’t agree with me, so you’re sheltered and closed minded and don’t know AA people like I do. And if you do present legit counter arguments, I’ll ignore them and say I’m not here to argue like I’ve done countless times”
You’re right, you don’t argue. You talk down to everyone in here except those that re-articulate one of your exact points.
“I have most of you on ignore...but I’m here for intelligent and open minded discussion”. You’re a riot, no pun intended. Thank you for blessing us with your wisdom and experience, I’d never be able to have a true AA point of view without you spoon feeding it to me.
In other news, even if you don’t always agree with him politically or ideologically, Killer Mike is the man. Incredible innovative musician, no BS champion for his community and his beliefs, and someone you’d love to have in your corner
This is pretty spot on. I have had privilege to work on a few projects with Killer Mike over the past 7 years that afforded me the opportunity to share a few beers, smoke a few joints and talk about all sorts of things. He's an extremely proud, pragmatic, driven, and gracious man who thinks of the greater good and his lasting impact in almost everything he does. I don't agree with everything he does but I will always listen - just as he always listens too when people have thoughtful, even if differing, opinions.
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To be fair, i would call him a Bernie Unit. Dude is huge.
Luckily Bernie is mostly bones & not much meat.
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My first post and I may get banned.
I don’t know if Elon has literally ever spent any time in a predominantly low-income black neighborhood. I suspect not, but people can put all sorts of blinders on, so who knows. The point is this:
There is a reason why the term, “made it out” is frequently used when referring to successful African Americans from these neighborhoods. They are set up for failure. Bad schools, terrible job opportunities, lack of generational family structure, etc. I don’t give two rats asses about loan and grant programs, which sound great on face but without true reform will provide minimal lasting socio-economic improvements in this setting. Great sound bites and failsafe argument bait, but like throwing cups of water at a house fire.
Lack of education..yes. A lack of education would be associated with violent crimes. Why is there a lack of education? Is it centuries of institutional racism that have lead to underfunding of urban public school systems? 100%. Do I feel that in Barrington Illinois, where I am happy to have my property taxes hiked so that my kids can have better facilities, teachers, and experiences? No. Is that realistic in Chicago? Are the elites in lakeview happy to have their taxes raised so that the CPL can make improvements? No, bc the vast majority of those families are sending their kids to private schools.
No one has to convince the black community that they have an excuse, or perpetuate a narrative as you say. There is truth and there is spin. If black folks can’t get a job, it could very well be because they haven’t had the education, the mentorship, the privilege of many of us. It could also be straight up racism. But in reality, it’s not either or, it’s all of the above. No one making excuses, just examining the situation.
Also, your an pretty boy.
Ban me now
F a ban. Make this guy a mod
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So we have Ners our here parroting white supremacist talking points. 2020 had been weird.
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My first post and I may get banned.
I don’t know if Elon has literally ever spent any time in a predominantly low-income black neighborhood. I suspect not, but people can put all sorts of blinders on, so who knows. The point is this:
There is a reason why the term, “made it out” is frequently used when referring to successful African Americans from these neighborhoods. They are set up for failure. Bad schools, terrible job opportunities, lack of generational family structure, etc. I don’t give two rats asses about loan and grant programs, which sound great on face but without true reform will provide minimal lasting socio-economic improvements in this setting. Great sound bites and failsafe argument bait, but like throwing cups of water at a house fire.
Lack of education..yes. A lack of education would be associated with violent crimes. Why is there a lack of education? Is it centuries of institutional racism that have lead to underfunding of urban public school systems? 100%. Do I feel that in Barrington Illinois, where I am happy to have my property taxes hiked so that my kids can have better facilities, teachers, and experiences? No. Is that realistic in Chicago? Are the elites in lakeview happy to have their taxes raised so that the CPL can make improvements? No, bc the vast majority of those families are sending their kids to private schools.
No one has to convince the black community that they have an excuse, or perpetuate a narrative as you say. There is truth and there is spin. If black folks can’t get a job, it could very well be because they haven’t had the education, the mentorship, the privilege of many of us. It could also be straight up racism. But in reality, it’s not either or, it’s all of the above. No one making excuses, just examining the situation.
Also, your an pretty boy.
Ban me now
Let’s hear your solution then. Solve the problem.
P.S. I live in a building that is over 60% black and am exposed daily and see the disregard many have for public property/common areas, including in my building. Defacing. Littering. Smoking. Piss in elevators. Music at obnoxious levels. It’s really pleasant bro.
Why do I live here? Lost my ass on a business I started 8 years ago..so choose to live cheap AF to make up what I lost.
I suspect your pretty boy Barrington views would change if you actually did live it on the daily.
Calling others racist is such a f’in cop out and the most lazy intellectual and overplayed talking point of the liberal left.
So yea. I get wanting to “make it out.” But when I do, thankfully I don’t have to get called a sell out or Uncle Tom or not being hood enough, Black enough, for striving and working my ass off for better. Name one other culture that glorifies the aforementioned?
Sad the hood element of Black community glorifies gangster life, speaking poorly, not getting an education. The true victims in all of this are those Blacks who did make it out through their hard work and discipline.
Trust me, they want nothing to do with the hood and sure AF don’t live there, nor want to. And they also know that success in America is possible Yet I can agree that it is more difficult due to what I referenced above.
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Let’s hear your solution then. Solve the problem.
P.S. I live in a building that is over 60% black and am exposed daily and see the disregard many have for public property/common areas, including in my building. Defacing. Littering. Smoking. Piss in elevators. Music at obnoxious levels. It’s really pleasant bro.
Why do I live here? Lost my ass on a business I started 8 years ago..so choose to live cheap AF to make up what I lost.
I suspect your pretty boy Barrington views would change if you actually did live it on the daily.
Calling others racist is such a f’in cop out and the most lazy intellectual and overplayed talking point of the liberal left.
So yea. I get wanting to “make it out.” But when I do, thankfully I don’t have to get called a sell out or Uncle Tom or not being hood enough, Black enough, for striving and working my ass off for better. Name one other culture that glorifies the aforementioned?
Sad the hood element of Black community glorifies gangster life, speaking poorly, not getting an education. The true victims in all of this are those Blacks who did make it out through their hard work and discipline.
Trust me, they want nothing to do with the hood and sure AF don’t live there, nor want to. And they also know that success in America is possible Yet I can agree that it is more difficult due to what I referenced above.
Seriously Ners you really need to stop this. You are making yourself look like a complete crackpot.
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Let’s hear your solution then. Solve the problem.
P.S. I live in a building that is over 60% black and am exposed daily and see the disregard many have for public property/common areas, including in my building. Defacing. Littering. Smoking. Piss in elevators. Music at obnoxious levels. It’s really pleasant bro.
Why do I live here? Lost my ass on a business I started 8 years ago..so choose to live cheap AF to make up what I lost.
I suspect your pretty boy Barrington views would change if you actually did live it on the daily.
Calling others racist is such a f’in cop out and the most lazy intellectual and overplayed talking point of the liberal left.
So yea. I get wanting to “make it out.” But when I do, thankfully I don’t have to get called a sell out or Uncle Tom or not being hood enough, Black enough, for striving and working my ass off for better. Name one other culture that glorifies the aforementioned?
Sad the hood element of Black community glorifies gangster life, speaking poorly, not getting an education. The true victims in all of this are those Blacks who did make it out through their hard work and discipline.
Trust me, they want nothing to do with the hood and sure AF don’t live there, nor want to. And they also know that success in America is possible Yet I can agree that it is more difficult due to what I referenced above.
Go off king
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Seriously Ners you really need to stop this. You are making yourself look like a complete crackpot.
Lol. Just speaking the truth Sultan. Really wish what I just posted wasn’t my truth...or true. But, it is. Perhaps living as I do for the past 3 years has made me a crackpot. I know it definitely has colored my views. No pun intended.
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St. Paul mayor said all of those arrested last night were from out of state.
Numerous reports of white supremicists looking to start a race war.
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I first heard of him when he was a Bernie Bro in 2016.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUhup7uW4AMZGlm.jpg)
One of the few things I disagree with Killer on.
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St. Paul mayor said all of those arrested last night were from out of state.
Numerous reports of white supremicists looking to start a race war.
That’s odd. Just the opposite reported on local news in Minneapolis/St Paul. See attached.
Wonder if those reports you heard were rumors?
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St. Paul mayor said all of those arrested last night were from out of state.
Numerous reports of white supremicists looking to start a race war.
You really think that the 6 inch mafia, the dudes with the wooden guns, and all of the other jokes made open the reopen protesters are smart enough to coordinate a race war?
Antifa, yes.
The stars and bars brigade, not so much.
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Let’s hear your solution then. Solve the problem.
P.S. I live in a building that is over 60% black and am exposed daily and see the disregard many have for public property/common areas, including in my building. Defacing. Littering. Smoking. Piss in elevators. Music at obnoxious levels. It’s really pleasant bro.
Why do I live here? Lost my ass on a business I started 8 years ago..so choose to live cheap AF to make up what I lost.
I suspect your pretty boy Barrington views would change if you actually did live it on the daily.
Calling others racist is such a f’in cop out and the most lazy intellectual and overplayed talking point of the liberal left.
So yea. I get wanting to “make it out.” But when I do, thankfully I don’t have to get called a sell out or Uncle Tom or not being hood enough, Black enough, for striving and working my ass off for better. Name one other culture that glorifies the aforementioned?
Sad the hood element of Black community glorifies gangster life, speaking poorly, not getting an education. The true victims in all of this are those Blacks who did make it out through their hard work and discipline.
Trust me, they want nothing to do with the hood and sure AF don’t live there, nor want to. And they also know that success in America is possible Yet I can agree that it is more difficult due to what I referenced above.
You douchy douche bag...i can't argue with your "so prove to me you have a solution...." b.s.
No one person has a solution and you (if you went to MU), should be smart enough to understand that. But, in order to play along, here is my stab.
1.Speak out strongly against people like you who seem to believe that a person's actions are purely a result of their skin color. Teach people context, cultural history, understanding, empathy, and instill in others a willingness to be an active part of the solution.
2. Stop cutting educational funding. Invest into the future, especially in historically disadvantaged neighborhoods and school districts..
3. What others (who know much more than i do) have said about police recruiting, training, and expectations re: being regarded as an ally of the neighborhood rather than a force of the law. I don't have the time or energy to say it as succinctly as others have earlier in this thread, but we need to empower all of the good to root out all of the bad. Rather, the police, like out armed services, have allowed a culture to thrive in which where rank is more important than character, and the law is above the person. Its wrong, and its deeply rooted but addressable.
4. Provide health care as a right rather than a privilege. So much poverty and hardship is a result of the overwhelming weight of healthcare debt. Do not tie healthcare coverage to employment. If anything, today's times show the need to separate these two things. We need to allow people to responsibly manage their health regardless of their employment status.
PPS. I spent the first 6 years of my post-MU life working at a hospital in Lawndale, one of the worst neighborhoods in the country. Let me tell you that the people I met there are some of the most genuine, caring, family oriented people i have ever met. Some of them are/were drug dealers, gang members, etc.. I worked on a trauma unit with mostly gun shot and other violent crimes (read: graphic) victims. The respect and admiration shown towards me by these vulnerable persons strikes a jarring contrast to whatever nonsense you are voicing. These are people who are doing what they understand is necessary to survive. Nothing less. I can tell you that these folks don't "glorify" gangster life, these are kids who don't understand life choices until its too late and the system, and people such as yourself, have given up on them. Many of those given a second chance are able to turn things around. In fact, the majority of our spinal cord injury support team was comprised of former gang members dedicated to helping their community find solutions and to being a voice for change.
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My first post and I may get banned.
I don’t know if Elon has literally ever spent any time in a predominantly low-income black neighborhood. I suspect not, but people can put all sorts of blinders on, so who knows. The point is this:
There is a reason why the term, “made it out” is frequently used when referring to successful African Americans from these neighborhoods. They are set up for failure. Bad schools, terrible job opportunities, lack of generational family structure, etc. I don’t give two rats asses about loan and grant programs, which sound great on face but without true reform will provide minimal lasting socio-economic improvements in this setting. Great sound bites and failsafe argument bait, but like throwing cups of water at a house fire.
Lack of education..yes. A lack of education would be associated with violent crimes. Why is there a lack of education? Is it centuries of institutional racism that have lead to underfunding of urban public school systems? 100%. Do I feel that in Barrington Illinois, where I am happy to have my property taxes hiked so that my kids can have better facilities, teachers, and experiences? No. Is that realistic in Chicago? Are the elites in lakeview happy to have their taxes raised so that the CPL can make improvements? No, bc the vast majority of those families are sending their kids to private schools.
No one has to convince the black community that they have an excuse, or perpetuate a narrative as you say. There is truth and there is spin. If black folks can’t get a job, it could very well be because they haven’t had the education, the mentorship, the privilege of many of us. It could also be straight up racism. But in reality, it’s not either or, it’s all of the above. No one making excuses, just examining the situation.
Also, your an pretty boy.
Ban me now
Epic first post. And spot on.
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My first post and I may get banned.
I don’t know if Elon has literally ever spent any time in a predominantly low-income black neighborhood. I suspect not, but people can put all sorts of blinders on, so who knows. The point is this:
Ban ewe? C'mon man yur preachin' ta da choir heer, hey?
There is a reason why the term, “made it out” is frequently used when referring to successful African Americans from these neighborhoods. They are set up for failure. Bad schools, terrible job opportunities, lack of generational family structure, etc. I don’t give two rats asses about loan and grant programs, which sound great on face but without true reform will provide minimal lasting socio-economic improvements in this setting. Great sound bites and failsafe argument bait, but like throwing cups of water at a house fire.
Lack of education..yes. A lack of education would be associated with violent crimes. Why is there a lack of education? Is it centuries of institutional racism that have lead to underfunding of urban public school systems? 100%. Do I feel that in Barrington Illinois, where I am happy to have my property taxes hiked so that my kids can have better facilities, teachers, and experiences? No. Is that realistic in Chicago? Are the elites in lakeview happy to have their taxes raised so that the CPL can make improvements? No, bc the vast majority of those families are sending their kids to private schools.
No one has to convince the black community that they have an excuse, or perpetuate a narrative as you say. There is truth and there is spin. If black folks can’t get a job, it could very well be because they haven’t had the education, the mentorship, the privilege of many of us. It could also be straight up racism. But in reality, it’s not either or, it’s all of the above. No one making excuses, just examining the situation.
Also, your an pretty boy.
Ban me now
Ban ewe? C'mon man yur preachin' ta da choir heer, hey?
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My first post and I may get banned.
I don’t know if Elon has literally ever spent any time in a predominantly low-income black neighborhood. I suspect not, but people can put all sorts of blinders on, so who knows. The point is this:
There is a reason why the term, “made it out” is frequently used when referring to successful African Americans from these neighborhoods. They are set up for failure. Bad schools, terrible job opportunities, lack of generational family structure, etc. I don’t give two rats asses about loan and grant programs, which sound great on face but without true reform will provide minimal lasting socio-economic improvements in this setting. Great sound bites and failsafe argument bait, but like throwing cups of water at a house fire.
Lack of education..yes. A lack of education would be associated with violent crimes. Why is there a lack of education? Is it centuries of institutional racism that have lead to underfunding of urban public school systems? 100%. Do I feel that in Barrington Illinois, where I am happy to have my property taxes hiked so that my kids can have better facilities, teachers, and experiences? No. Is that realistic in Chicago? Are the elites in lakeview happy to have their taxes raised so that the CPL can make improvements? No, bc the vast majority of those families are sending their kids to private schools.
No one has to convince the black community that they have an excuse, or perpetuate a narrative as you say. There is truth and there is spin. If black folks can’t get a job, it could very well be because they haven’t had the education, the mentorship, the privilege of many of us. It could also be straight up racism. But in reality, it’s not either or, it’s all of the above. No one making excuses, just examining the situation.
Also, your an pretty boy.
Ban me now
Out-effing-standing.
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Here's what people don't want to come out and say. There is a problem within Black America that has it committing exponentially more violent crime than any other race...which of course leads to more police encounters. There is racism and there is realism.
Violent crime = Murder, Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault. The numbers:
Percentage of U.S population = Black: 13.4% in 2019
Percentage of total violent crimes in US committed by Blacks? 37.5%
You commit the worst crimes, you end up in jail. This isn't "unfair policing" or incarceration.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
The U.S has the 33rd highest rate of killing by police per 10 million persons. The countries that comprise 1-32..virtually all are in South America/Africa. Is the evil white man to blame there too?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country
Of course the above facts never get reported on the news as in some twisted way that would be considered "racist."
Last thought, if white people are so evil and the devil, why is that immigration into Anglo societies exponentially exceeds that into countries of other races? Does saying this make me a "racist white supremacist?" Or again, is it simply realism?
I didn't read the rest of the thread after this total garbage show.
I am going to assume you have been dunked on so much since this post.
You're a tone deaf racist white dude who doesn't know it, or openly accepts it.
I wish nothing but the worst for you, and I mean that with every fiber of my being.
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Let’s hear your solution then. Solve the problem.
P.S. I live in a building that is over 60% black and am exposed daily and see the disregard many have for public property/common areas, including in my building. Defacing. Littering. Smoking. Piss in elevators. Music at obnoxious levels. It’s really pleasant bro.
Why do I live here? Lost my ass on a business I started 8 years ago..so choose to live cheap AF to make up what I lost.
I suspect your pretty boy Barrington views would change if you actually did live it on the daily.
Calling others racist is such a f’in cop out and the most lazy intellectual and overplayed talking point of the liberal left.
So yea. I get wanting to “make it out.” But when I do, thankfully I don’t have to get called a sell out or Uncle Tom or not being hood enough, Black enough, for striving and working my ass off for better. Name one other culture that glorifies the aforementioned?
Sad the hood element of Black community glorifies gangster life, speaking poorly, not getting an education. The true victims in all of this are those Blacks who did make it out through their hard work and discipline.
Trust me, they want nothing to do with the hood and sure AF don’t live there, nor want to. And they also know that success in America is possible Yet I can agree that it is more difficult due to what I referenced above.
Good God.
Please go watch 13th on Netflix. You need some perspective.
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You douchy douche bag...i can't argue with your "so prove to me you have a solution...." b.s.
No one person has a solution and you (if you went to MU), should be smart enough to understand that. But, in order to play along, here is my stab.
1.Speak out strongly against people like you who seem to believe that a person's actions are purely a result of their skin color. Teach people context, cultural history, understanding, empathy, and instill in others a willingness to be an active part of the solution.
2. Stop cutting educational funding. Invest into the future, especially in historically disadvantaged neighborhoods and school districts..
3. What others (who know much more than i do) have said about police recruiting, training, and expectations re: being regarded as an ally of the neighborhood rather than a force of the law. I don't have the time or energy to say it as succinctly as others have earlier in this thread, but we need to empower all of the good to root out all of the bad. Rather, the police, like out armed services, have allowed a culture to thrive in which where rank is more important than character, and the law is above the person. Its wrong, and its deeply rooted but addressable.
4. Provide health care as a right rather than a privilege. So much poverty and hardship is a result of the overwhelming weight of healthcare debt. Do not tie healthcare coverage to employment. If anything, today's times show the need to separate these two things. We need to allow people to responsibly manage their health regardless of their employment status.
PPS. I spent the first 6 years of my post-MU life working at a hospital in Lawndale, one of the worst neighborhoods in the country. Let me tell you that the people I met there are some of the most genuine, caring, family oriented people i have ever met. Some of them are/were drug dealers, gang members, etc.. I worked on a trauma unit with mostly gun shot and other violent crimes (read: graphic) victims. The respect and admiration shown towards me by these vulnerable persons strikes a jarring contrast to whatever nonsense you are voicing. These are people who are doing what they understand is necessary to survive. Nothing less. I can tell you that these folks don't "glorify" gangster life, these are kids who don't understand life choices until its too late and the system, and people such as yourself, have given up on them. Many of those given a second chance are able to turn things around. In fact, the majority of our spinal cord injury support team was comprised of former gang members dedicated to helping their community find solutions and to being a voice for change.
The best poster on Scoop.
We have had very similar interactions and relationships with people from inner cities.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/NancyAFrench/status/1266900547342413825?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Eyewitness account from Nashville that most of the damage is being done by white people.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/NancyAFrench/status/1266900547342413825?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Eyewitness account from Nashville that most of the damage is being done by white people.
Look for yourself. Check out the 8:17 update:
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2020/05/30/george-floyd-death-nashville-tennessee-protest-may-john-cooper/5286837002/
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https://twitter.com/midmichigannow/status/1266907736735956996?s=21 (https://twitter.com/midmichigannow/status/1266907736735956996?s=21) Glimmer of Hope.
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So here we always thought that Ners was just an annoying Derrick Wilson hater who thought the fact he could dunk in high school (allegedly) made him smarter about basketball even than most D1 basketball coaches.
Turns out his racial views lie somewhere between those of Al Campanis and Jason Kessler.
Keep posting, Ners ... at least until you get your next lifetime ban. It's good for the rest of us to be reminded often what kind of person you are.
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https://twitter.com/midmichigannow/status/1266907736735956996?s=21 (https://twitter.com/midmichigannow/status/1266907736735956996?s=21) Glimmer of Hope.
Leaders lead. That's the thing. Formal press conferences feel stuffy and fake because they are.
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Look for yourself. Check out the 8:17 update:
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2020/05/30/george-floyd-death-nashville-tennessee-protest-may-john-cooper/5286837002/
Part of a disturbing trend. Violence to make legit protesters look bad.
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You douchy douche bag...i can't argue with your "so prove to me you have a solution...." b.s.
No one person has a solution and you (if you went to MU), should be smart enough to understand that. But, in order to play along, here is my stab.
1.Speak out strongly against people like you who seem to believe that a person's actions are purely a result of their skin color. Teach people context, cultural history, understanding, empathy, and instill in others a willingness to be an active part of the solution.
2. Stop cutting educational funding. Invest into the future, especially in historically disadvantaged neighborhoods and school districts..
3. What others (who know much more than i do) have said about police recruiting, training, and expectations re: being regarded as an ally of the neighborhood rather than a force of the law. I don't have the time or energy to say it as succinctly as others have earlier in this thread, but we need to empower all of the good to root out all of the bad. Rather, the police, like out armed services, have allowed a culture to thrive in which where rank is more important than character, and the law is above the person. Its wrong, and its deeply rooted but addressable.
4. Provide health care as a right rather than a privilege. So much poverty and hardship is a result of the overwhelming weight of healthcare debt. Do not tie healthcare coverage to employment. If anything, today's times show the need to separate these two things. We need to allow people to responsibly manage their health regardless of their employment status.
PPS. I spent the first 6 years of my post-MU life working at a hospital in Lawndale, one of the worst neighborhoods in the country. Let me tell you that the people I met there are some of the most genuine, caring, family oriented people i have ever met. Some of them are/were drug dealers, gang members, etc.. I worked on a trauma unit with mostly gun shot and other violent crimes (read: graphic) victims. The respect and admiration shown towards me by these vulnerable persons strikes a jarring contrast to whatever nonsense you are voicing. These are people who are doing what they understand is necessary to survive. Nothing less. I can tell you that these folks don't "glorify" gangster life, these are kids who don't understand life choices until its too late and the system, and people such as yourself, have given up on them. Many of those given a second chance are able to turn things around. In fact, the majority of our spinal cord injury support team was comprised of former gang members dedicated to helping their community find solutions and to being a voice for change.
Hey tough guy! Awesome post.
As for your “solutions,”:
1) We’ve done this for years.
2) US spends 5th most on education spend per child of any country and is 8-20 times the size of those ahead and behind.
3) This also has been taking place for years.
4) No person in this country is turned away for healthcare. There is Medicaid and if not insured people aren’t turned away.
Yet nothing ever gets better. And things are only getting worse.
As for the rest of your post - Glad to hear people were appreciative of the care you rendered in their time of need. Seems to me most people are grateful to those trying to save someone’s life..not sure that’s noteworthy?
And let’s be clear - I don’t think a person’s skin color makes them bad. I’m saying that there are consequences to decision-making and behavior.
For example, if you don’t have an education, have limited earning potential, perhaps you should consider birth control/not have a kid, much less lots of kids? This is where the problem begins. It is simply irresponsible. And it is a major problem in our inner cities/black community. But wait, to say something like that is racist, right?
If poverty is the root of all evil, and hence the catalyst for committing violent crimes - then why in the F are people with the least education and least means having the most kids?
I truly feel sad as I see young Moms pushing their baby strollers down the sidewalk with often 2-4 other young kids surrounding her and no Dad in sight. It’s like you know the odds for those kids to make it are stacked so far against them to start - through no fault of their own, but instead the reckless decision of their creators.
Of course this happens in other ethnicities as well, but it happens at an exponentially higher rate in the Black community. Perhaps it is cultural as the African proverb goes: It takes a village to raise a child? That would apply if you have too many to care for on your own - not enough time and not enough money.
So, you believe it is incumbent on everyone else to fix the problems that ail Black America, whereas I feel it is incumbent upon Black America to fix their own problems. Clearly the intervention and efforts of the past aren’t working.
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Hey tough guy! Awesome post.
As for your “solutions,”:
1) We’ve done this for years.
2) US spends 5th most on education spend per child of any country and is 8-20 times the size of those ahead and behind.
3) This also has been taking place for years.
4) No person in this country is turned away for healthcare. There is Medicaid and if not insured people aren’t turned away.
Yet nothing ever gets better. And things are only getting worse.
As for the rest of your post - Glad to hear people were appreciative of the care you rendered in their time of need. Seems to me most people are grateful to those trying to save someone’s life..not sure that’s noteworthy?
And let’s be clear - I don’t think a person’s skin color makes them bad. I’m saying that there are consequences to decision-making and behavior.
For example, if you don’t have an education, have limited earning potential, perhaps you should consider birth control/not have a kid, much less lots of kids? This is where the problem begins. It is simply irresponsible. And it is a major problem in our inner cities/black community. But wait, to say something like that is racist, right?
If poverty is the root of all evil, and hence the catalyst for committing violent crimes - then why in the F are people with the least education and least means having the most kids?
I truly feel sad as I see young Moms pushing their baby strollers down the sidewalk with often 2-4 other young kids surrounding her and no Dad in sight. It’s like you know the odds for those kids to make it are stacked so far against them to start - through no fault of their own, but instead the reckless decision of their creators.
Of course this happens in other ethnicities as well, but it happens at an exponentially higher rate in the Black community. Perhaps it is cultural as the African proverb goes: It takes a village to raise a child? That would apply if you have too many to care for on your own - not enough time and not enough money.
So, you believe it is incumbent on everyone else to fix the problems that ail Black America, whereas I feel it is incumbent upon Black America to fix their own problems. Clearly the intervention and efforts of the past aren’t working.
So you believe black people are poor so they shouldn’t have kids?
Holy sh!t.
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Let's check in on Bob Kroll, President of Minneapolis Police Union (There are a lot of Bob Kroll's in other cities too)
https://m.startribune.com/amid-attention-and-controversy-minneapolis-police-union-head-has-no-regrets/564290012/
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I didn't read the rest of the thread after this total garbage show.
I am going to assume you have been dunked on so much since this post.
You're a tone deaf racist white dude who doesn't know it, or openly accepts it.
I wish nothing but the worst for you, and I mean that with every fiber of my being.
Guess this is what happens when the facts aren’t your friend. I wish you all the best Hards. Same with MU82. Same with Wadesworld. Sorry that some real talk and debate has you guys:
#triggered
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Guess this is what happens when the facts aren’t your friend. I wish you all the best Hards. Same with MU82. Same with Wadesworld. Sorry that some real talk and debate has you guys:
#triggered
Yes, dumbass racism triggers me. Why we see what we’re seeing in this country is because of attitudes like yours.
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So you believe black people are poor so they shouldn’t have kids?
Holy sh!t.
No. I believe poor people shouldn’t have kids.
It’s already been established poverty is the catalyst for violent crime. If you want violent crime to end and systemic racism to end - poverty needs to end.
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Guess this is what happens when the facts aren’t your friend. I wish you all the best Hards. Same with MU82. Same with Wadesworld. Sorry that some real talk and debate has you guys:
#triggered
You're not worth it.
Your emperor is lucky to have you as an easily conned, fellow racist sycophant.
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Perhaps it's time to stop arguing with the guy who either is a white supremacist or just likes aping their talking points.
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Last night in my city it was the local Youth Liberation Front, an anarchist group of white dudes who think Bernie is too moderate. Looting the Apple store, Louis Vuitton, Target, Nordstrom Rack. You know, for George Floyd. Nothing instigated by the police either, just wanton destruction. Went and saw it today, it was bad. Ready for more tonight. On both sides there are extremists using the unrest to carry out senseless violence and destruction. Sickening.
In Atlanta, what does looting the College Football HOF achieve for social justice? What did setting a Chase branch on fire advance?
As I said, there will be far left and far right that do this. The group you are describing is far left. Let me guess, you live in Seattle? They are big in the Northwest.
What FORGETFUL said was White Nationalists were doing this. 38 of the 45 arrested May 29th and early May 30th in Minneapolis were from Minnesota and most were not white. The mayor is now saying no one arrested was from Minnesota? You can go directly to the Sheriff's website to see who was booked, what race, gender, age of the arrested. FORGETFUL seems to be ignoring that both sides are doing this, the far right and the far left. Been going on for years.
Here is the database to search who has been arrested. https://jailroster.hennepin.us/JailRosterOnline/jail-roster
This just came out of Dallas - these people hurt / killed this man for defending his shop. All in the name of George. It doesn't look like this shop owner is breathing either and I can imagine him saying I can't breathe. These people doing the beating up I don't think are white nationalists as a hunch. What a tragedy and more of that to come. The authorities cannot allow this to continue. Reminding me of 1968 all over again.
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1266929563046576128?s=20
Edited: Include searchable database of those arrested and a correction
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Yes, dumbass racism triggers me. Why we see what we’re seeing in this country is because of attitudes like yours.
Except I’m not racist. I’m a realist. I understand there are racists in this world - racists exists in all racial groups.
If I were a “racist” I wouldn’t have hired nearly as many minorities into my former business. Would not have been a Big Brother for 7 years in Big Brother program. Nor in my former business, would I have donated generously to numerous charities dedicated to raising money for minority causes.
And for what it’s worth, EVERY time I pass a “bum” on the streets asking for money, I give them some - even though I have little.
I’m 100% comfortable with how I’ve treated POC in my life and I’ve had some of these same discussions with them. Sometimes the discussions got heated, but they were real.
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Hey tough guy! Awesome post.
As for your “solutions,”:
1) We’ve done this for years.
2) US spends 5th most on education spend per child of any country and is 8-20 times the size of those ahead and behind.
3) This also has been taking place for years.
4) No person in this country is turned away for healthcare. There is Medicaid and if not insured people aren’t turned away.
Yet nothing ever gets better. And things are only getting worse.
As for the rest of your post - Glad to hear people were appreciative of the care you rendered in their time of need. Seems to me most people are grateful to those trying to save someone’s life..not sure that’s noteworthy?
And let’s be clear - I don’t think a person’s skin color makes them bad. I’m saying that there are consequences to decision-making and behavior.
For example, if you don’t have an education, have limited earning potential, perhaps you should consider birth control/not have a kid, much less lots of kids? This is where the problem begins. It is simply irresponsible. And it is a major problem in our inner cities/black community. But wait, to say something like that is racist, right?
If poverty is the root of all evil, and hence the catalyst for committing violent crimes - then why in the F are people with the least education and least means having the most kids?
I truly feel sad as I see young Moms pushing their baby strollers down the sidewalk with often 2-4 other young kids surrounding her and no Dad in sight. It’s like you know the odds for those kids to make it are stacked so far against them to start - through no fault of their own, but instead the reckless decision of their creators.
Of course this happens in other ethnicities as well, but it happens at an exponentially higher rate in the Black community. Perhaps it is cultural as the African proverb goes: It takes a village to raise a child? That would apply if you have too many to care for on your own - not enough time and not enough money.
So, you believe it is incumbent on everyone else to fix the problems that ail Black America, whereas I feel it is incumbent upon Black America to fix their own problems. Clearly the intervention and efforts of the past aren’t working.
1. No we have not. If we had done so, and done so well, I would not be having this argument. The 60 years since supposed real change on racial equality pales in comparison to the damage done in the 100+ years prior and the b.s. policies that, again, provide fancy talking points(ie separate but"equal") but do nothing to change the deep rooted racism that remains pervasive.
2. Educational spending does not equal investment into impoverished communities. How much of the spending in on private education? For every dollar spent on education for a white child from 5-22, how much is spent on an african american? Without looking, i can tell you without a doubt that it is not close. LEARN HOW ECONOMICS WORK.
3. Weird- black people keep getting murdered by police officers... I guess we should just keep doing what we are doing since we have been doing it the right way "for years"
4. OMFG- proving emergent care in the E.R. is NOT THE SAME as providing health care as a right. People on Medicaid are required to be poor! So your message is, go ahead and be poor and you can be on medicaid and then covered. Don't try to move up, because if you have health care costs, we will just knock you back down to the ranks of the poor, then we will cover your costs.
Decision making and poor behavior is not instinctive. It is the result of your upbringing. That is the result of your caregivers upbringing. And their upbringing the result of their caregivers...
All of us non-millionaires should decide to become millionaires. Take control of middle class america and decide to become the 0.1%. It is apparently up to us.
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Let’s hear your solution then. Solve the problem.
P.S. I live in a building that is over 60% black and am exposed daily and see the disregard many have for public property/common areas, including in my building. Defacing. Littering. Smoking. Piss in elevators. Music at obnoxious levels. It’s really pleasant bro.
Why do I live here? Lost my ass on a business I started 8 years ago..so choose to live cheap AF to make up what I lost.
I suspect your pretty boy Barrington views would change if you actually did live it on the daily.
Calling others racist is such a f’in cop out and the most lazy intellectual and overplayed talking point of the liberal left.
So yea. I get wanting to “make it out.” But when I do, thankfully I don’t have to get called a sell out or Uncle Tom or not being hood enough, Black enough, for striving and working my ass off for better. Name one other culture that glorifies the aforementioned?
Sad the hood element of Black community glorifies gangster life, speaking poorly, not getting an education. The true victims in all of this are those Blacks who did make it out through their hard work and discipline.
Trust me, they want nothing to do with the hood and sure AF don’t live there, nor want to. And they also know that success in America is possible Yet I can agree that it is more difficult due to what I referenced above.
You also played high school basketball too. So there’s that...
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So I guess Ners exposed himself, and boy is it ugly.
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No. I believe poor people shouldn’t have kids.
It’s already been established poverty is the catalyst for violent crime. If you want violent crime to end and systemic racism to end - poverty needs to end.
Holy unnatural carnal knowledge dude, you serious right now?
Please ban this guy
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ners, didn’t you hear? MAGA loves “the blacks.”
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"I would love to be a well-educated black."
-- Donald F. Trump Ners
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Saw this live. This is what it’s all about and unnatural carnal knowledge those trying to hijack for their own purposes: https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/1266922958888464384
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"I would love to be a well-educated black."
-- Donald F. Trump Ners
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."
-- Joe Biden
This is where you and I differ. I don't think you are capable of seeing it when our side does it, but we do it too, but often in different ways. Or we get a pass when we do it.
Malcom X was right when he said the white liberal is perhaps the worst thing to happen to African Americans. "The white Liberal differs from the white Conservative only in one way; the Liberal is more deceitful, more hypocritical, than the Conservative. Both want power, but the White Liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as our friend and benefactor and by winning the friendship and support of us, the White Liberal is able to use us as a pawn or a weapon in this political football game, that is constantly raging, between the White Liberals and the White Conservatives. We are nothing, but a political football."
-- Malcom X 1963. What a brilliant man.
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"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."
-- Joe Biden
This is where you and I differ. I don't think you are capable of seeing it when our side does it, but we do it too, but often in different ways. Or we get a pass when we do it.
Malcom X was right when he said the white liberal is perhaps the worst thing to happen to African Americans. "The white Liberal differs from the white Conservative only in one way; the Liberal is more deceitful, more hypocritical, than the Conservative. Both want power, but the White Liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as our friend and benefactor and by winning the friendship and support of us, the White Liberal is able to use us as a pawn or a weapon in this political football game, that is constantly raging, between the White Liberals and the White Conservatives. We are nothing, but a political football."
-- Malcom X 1963. What a brilliant man.
The white liberal in 1963 is a white conservative today.
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The white liberal in 1963 is a white conservative today.
This.
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The white liberal in 1963 is a white conservative today.
I disagree with you and Warriordad.
A liberal is a liberal, there are no black liberals or white liberals.
A conservative is a conservative, same, same.
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"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."
-- Joe Biden
This is where you and I differ. I don't think you are capable of seeing it when our side does it, but we do it too, but often in different ways. Or we get a pass when we do it.
Malcom X was right when he said the white liberal is perhaps the worst thing to happen to African Americans. "The white Liberal differs from the white Conservative only in one way; the Liberal is more deceitful, more hypocritical, than the Conservative. Both want power, but the White Liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as our friend and benefactor and by winning the friendship and support of us, the White Liberal is able to use us as a pawn or a weapon in this political football game, that is constantly raging, between the White Liberals and the White Conservatives. We are nothing, but a political football."
-- Malcom X 1963. What a brilliant man.
Aren’t you a white liberal?
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I disagree with you and Warriordad.
A liberal is a liberal, there are no black liberals or white liberals.
A conservative is a conservative, same, same.
You would be correct if liberal/democrat and conservative/republican were not being used interchangeably for decades.
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Guess this is what happens when the facts aren’t your friend. I wish you all the best Hards. Same with MU82. Same with Wadesworld. Sorry that some real talk and debate has you guys:
#triggered
Ain't triggered fam, embarrassed of folks like you. Tiny world view, smaller mind, no empathy. Loser from the front to the back.
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Holy unnatural carnal knowledge dude, you serious right now?
Please ban this guy
Question: Would you have a child if you didn’t think you were properly equipped/prepared to support/care for it. Yes or No?
Is it smart to have a child if you have no job/income or even a high school diploma? Yes or No?
If you answered “Yes” to both, That’s fine, but then you certainly have no right to complain about others kids having more opportunities to get ahead, and ascribe that as systemic racism.
Please ban this guy. Jesus. ❄️
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Holy unnatural carnal knowledge dude, you serious right now?
Please ban this guy
He has been banned. 5 times. And the worst thing that happened to him was working around it the 5th time.
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Saw this live. This is what it’s all about and unnatural carnal knowledge those trying to hijack for their own purposes: https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/1266922958888464384
That is a powerful and gut wrenching statement. It is heartbreaking that people of color can’t feel safe walking peacefully down the street.
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Ain't triggered fam, embarrassed of folks like you. Tiny world view, smaller mind, no empathy. Loser from the front to the back.
I don’t like your opinion and viewpoint so therefore you have a tiny world view, smaller mind, no empathy and are a loser from front to back.
Wow. That’s a big and open mind you have going on Hards! F’in ironic.
Empathy is good. Until it’s not.
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Is there such a thing as genocide against a socioeconomic class? Poor people serve no purpose on this planet. Your worth is your wealth.
Seriously unbelievable what I read here today. More saddened than angered honestly. What a unnatural carnal knowledgeed up world view.
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Is there such a thing as genocide against a socioeconomic class? Poor people serve no purpose on this planet. Your worth is your wealth.
Seriously unbelievable what I read here today. More saddened than angered honestly. What a unnatural carnal knowledgeed up world view.
It’s sad, Bias. I also have no understanding of why people would even want to engage with Ners and Chico. Ignore them and this thread can recover.
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Except I’m not racist. I’m a realist. I understand there are racists in this world - racists exists in all racial groups.
If I were a “racist” I wouldn’t have hired nearly as many minorities into my former business. Would not have been a Big Brother for 7 years in Big Brother program. Nor in my former business, would I have donated generously to numerous charities dedicated to raising money for minority causes.
And for what it’s worth, EVERY time I pass a “bum” on the streets asking for money, I give them some - even though I have little.
I’m 100% comfortable with how I’ve treated POC in my life and I’ve had some of these same discussions with them. Sometimes the discussions got heated, but they were real.
Hey man, if the hood fits just wear it. You should own it.
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Do us all a favor Jamie - go play in traffic you cuck loving twat.
Boom goes the dynamite.
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What's the saying. In before the lock. ?-(
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And this is why, prior to the COVID, politics are verboten on scoop. People write things that make it impossible to not draw inferences about their character. And it makes it impossible for those impressions to not bleed though to anything that might be said regarding basketball and other permitted topics.
And then major life events happen and some people type out tearful apologies and want to be taken seriously.
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From the twitter machine:
St. Paul, MN Mayor Melvin Carter says every person arrested in his city last night was from out of state.
Dangerous Fringes (of all political leanings) are tearing this country apart.
Not true. Directionally correct, but not true.
University ave was hammered by “locals”.
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/634dd31c75f84346350d8d4af81934b5/tenor.gif?itemid=10749821)
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I don’t like your opinion and viewpoint so therefore you have a tiny world view, smaller mind, no empathy and are a loser from front to back.
Wow. That’s a big and open mind you have going on Hards! F’in ironic.
Empathy is good. Until it’s not.
Not how that works, child.