Vaccine/Antibody updates

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Pretty spot on.  I'm vaccinated, I'm in favor of the vaccine, but I'm not big on government mandated.

As for the rest, I imagine you're a bit older than me, but you've summed up a sizeable millenial faction.  I have numerous friends in the 25-35 range like me who lean right, especially on financial and business issues, but are decidedly a left of center on stuff like the environment, LGBTQ and social issues, etc... I've been homeless for awhile. It's incredible frustrating to not want to be associated with the lunatic Bible Belt fringe that is prominent in the GOP, but also have precious little in common with the louder voices on the left and less with my peer demo who enthusiastically supports them

You're essentially a New England Republican.

[warriorchick]

This describes me to a T.

Me. too.

[Jockey]

Me. too.

So, to you guys - what do you do now?

Reminds me of the dilemma with the Catholic Church. Many people left after the scandal. Many stayed.

[MUfan12]

So, to you guys - what do you do now?

Wait for the libertarians to stop being weirdos or a legit third party to emerge?

Not sure, to be honest.

[JWags85]

So, to you guys - what do you do now?

Reminds me of the dilemma with the Catholic Church. Many people left after the scandal. Many stayed.

Similar to MUfan12's thoughts, but also just hoping for the success of moderates, regardless of party.  The problem with the 2 party system is this mentality that if you're disgusted by the far right (which I am), then you must gravitate to the other side.  And if you don't, regardless of not supporting or voting for the far right, then you're complicit or enabling them.

I'm never gonna ideologically be able to get down with Bernie or Elizabeth Warren or AOC, but at the same time, I'm certainly not going to cheer for MTG or Josh Hawley or other GOP dinosaurs.  Its a frustrating place to be, especially when they become loud or prevailing voices in their respective parties.

[tower912]

I completely get the moderate dilemma.    I consider myself just left of center.    So, two election cycles ago, I was torn between a socialist and a politician whose family and history I detested.    If the R's had put up Kasich or Bush, I probably would have voted R.   However, when they put up Trump, I had to vote Clinton.    Nothing that happened under his watch surprised me based on his history. 

If 0 is Bernie and 100 is Q, I rate myself in the low 40's.    If I am hearing you guys correctly, you put yourself in the upper 50's, lower 60's.    I have little doubt that there is room for us in the same party, or at least room for people like us to sit down in a room and hammer out some decent policy.   

[The Sultan]

I completely get the moderate dilemma.    I consider myself just left of center.    So, two election cycles ago, I was torn between a socialist and a politician whose family and history I detested.    If the R's had put up Kasich or Bush, I probably would have voted R.   However, when they put up Trump, I had to vote Clinton.    Nothing that happened under his watch surprised me based on his history. 

If 0 is Bernie and 100 is Q, I rate myself in the low 40's.    If I am hearing you guys correctly, you put yourself in the upper 50's, lower 60's.    I have little doubt that there is room for us in the same party, or at least room for people like us to sit down in a room and hammer out some decent policy.   

The problem is the politics of today, and gerrymandering only heightens this, is that the norm for the parties is about 20 and 80 on your scale.

[pbiflyer]

I completely get the moderate dilemma.    I consider myself just left of center.    So, two election cycles ago, I was torn between a socialist and a politician whose family and history I detested.    If the R's had put up Kasich or Bush, I probably would have voted R.   However, when they put up Trump, I had to vote Clinton.    Nothing that happened under his watch surprised me based on his history. 

If 0 is Bernie and 100 is Q, I rate myself in the low 40's.    If I am hearing you guys correctly, you put yourself in the upper 50's, lower 60's.    I have little doubt that there is room for us in the same party, or at least room for people like us to sit down in a room and hammer out some decent policy.   

Clinton is a socialist? Hmmmm.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Clinton is a socialist? Hmmmm.

Feel the Bern!

[MU82]

I completely get the moderate dilemma.    I consider myself just left of center.    So, two election cycles ago, I was torn between a socialist and a politician whose family and history I detested.    If the R's had put up Kasich or Bush, I probably would have voted R.   However, when they put up Trump, I had to vote Clinton.    Nothing that happened under his watch surprised me based on his history. 

If 0 is Bernie and 100 is Q, I rate myself in the low 40's.    If I am hearing you guys correctly, you put yourself in the upper 50's, lower 60's.    I have little doubt that there is room for us in the same party, or at least room for people like us to sit down in a room and hammer out some decent policy.   

Our political philosophies are similar, tower. I am a registered Unaffiliated (what NC calls Independents) who is mostly centrist on economic issues and left of center on social issues. I try to vote based on the person, not the party. Though I usually have voted for moderate Dems when given the choice, I have voted for Bush Sr., Reagan, the Republican gubernatorial candidate in NC in 2012, both of Blagojevich's opponents when I lived in Illinois, and many lower-ballot Republicans. I definitely would have voted for Kasich, and I sigh every time I hear him speak now because it's so obvious that he'd have been a significantly better president than the one we got stuck with.

My Republican friends are much like Wags and MUfan - great people who do not like seeing our republic co-opted by a truly horrible man, his cowardly political enablers and his cultish followers.

The good thing is that politics has its ebbs and flos. There have been so many times in my voting lifetime that one party or the other has been written off -- especially the D's after Bush Sr. won and the R's after Obama's second win. Here's hoping Republicans come to their senses and put up a true Republican candidate, one with both great ideas and common decency, in 2024. Given the party leadership's total capitulation to the previous president, however, it's looking unlikely.

Of course, as you and others have noted, gerrymandering makes the problem much deeper at the state levels. Here in NC, Dems and Unaffiliateds each easily outnumber Republicans, but R's were swept into power in 2010, just in time to gerrymander the hell out of the state. It's not quite apartheid, but it is minority rule.

[tower912]

Clinton is a socialist? Hmmmm.

Nice.   To be clear, I meant 'in the democratic primary.'

[pbiflyer]

Nice.   To be clear, I meant 'in the democratic primary.'

Sorry, I misunderstood. My bad! And my apologies.

[naginiF]

If 0 is Bernie and 100 is Q, I rate myself in the low 40's.   

The fact that Q is even on the scale is a reflection of how skewed the view of 'conservative' is. I don't agree with many of Bernie's positions but I don't think there's any question that his policies are rooted in what he believes will help the majority of people in the country. You can have a debate on the shortcomings/merits/+ - impacts of those policies.

Q is an insane combination of delusional conspiracy beliefs that politicians use as a grift to further their personal ambitions. There is no debating Q because it's 90% emotion and 10% substance and there is no policy associated with it.

If Q is the equivalent of Bernie I'm like a 5 (everyone needs a little insanity in them). On a Bernie to Mitt Romney scale I'm somewhere in the 50's.

[Galway Eagle]

I completely get the moderate dilemma.    I consider myself just left of center.    So, two election cycles ago, I was torn between a socialist and a politician whose family and history I detested.    If the R's had put up Kasich or Bush, I probably would have voted R.   However, when they put up Trump, I had to vote Clinton.    Nothing that happened under his watch surprised me based on his history. 

If 0 is Bernie and 100 is Q, I rate myself in the low 40's.    If I am hearing you guys correctly, you put yourself in the upper 50's, lower 60's.    I have little doubt that there is room for us in the same party, or at least room for people like us to sit down in a room and hammer out some decent policy.   

I feel like Norway is 0. I mean Bernie's far left by USA standards but he's just another democratic socialist anywhere else.

[MU82]

The fact that Q is even on the scale is a reflection of how skewed the view of 'conservative' is. I don't agree with many of Bernie's positions but I don't think there's any question that his policies are rooted in what he believes will help the majority of people in the country. You can have a debate on the shortcomings/merits/+ - impacts of those policies.

Q is an insane combination of delusional conspiracy beliefs that politicians use as a grift to further their personal ambitions. There is no debating Q because it's 90% emotion and 10% substance and there is no policy associated with it.

If Q is the equivalent of Bernie I'm like a 5 (everyone needs a little insanity in them). On a Bernie to Mitt Romney scale I'm somewhere in the 50's.

Outstanding points.

And something like 20% of those who call themselves Republicans also believe Q has merit. It's effen scary.

[tower912]

Sorry, I misunderstood. My bad! And my apologies.

We're good.  I laughed at you pouncing on my omission. 

[MU82]

Here's a good one that I read in this morning's Charlotte Observer ...

At the YMCA of Greater Charlotte, staff balance personal safety with feasibility. The organization recommends that unvaccinated people — more than half the county's population — wear a mask indoors, said Pamela Hempstead, the Y's group exercise and health equity director.

Hempstead, who oversees upward of 20 weekly classes, from spin to water aerobics, said enforcing these guidelines is tricky.

"We are a Christian organization and it would be entirely too messy to ask people to show proof of vaccination," she said.

Dear Christian Scoopers:

Can any of you explain why being Christian would make it "too messy to ask people to show proof of vaccination"?

Do Christian police officers decline to ask drunk driving suspects for license and registration because, well, it would just be too messy?

Do Christian pharmacists just hand out medications to anybody because asking for prescriptions would just be too messy?

Of all the ridiculous things we've all read and heard during the pandemic -- and there have been hundreds, if not thousands -- that might be No. 1.

[pbiflyer]

Easy to explain. Gun toting, capitalism loving white Jesus preaches freedom!!!!!

[HutchwasClutch]

Here's a good one that I read in this morning's Charlotte Observer ...

At the YMCA of Greater Charlotte, staff balance personal safety with feasibility. The organization recommends that unvaccinated people — more than half the county's population — wear a mask indoors, said Pamela Hempstead, the Y's group exercise and health equity director.

Hempstead, who oversees upward of 20 weekly classes, from spin to water aerobics, said enforcing these guidelines is tricky.

"We are a Christian organization and it would be entirely too messy to ask people to show proof of vaccination," she said.

Dear Christian Scoopers:

Can any of you explain why being Christian would make it "too messy to ask people to show proof of vaccination"?

Do Christian police officers decline to ask drunk driving suspects for license and registration because, well, it would just be too messy?

Do Christian pharmacists just hand out medications to anybody because asking for prescriptions would just be too messy?

Of all the ridiculous things we've all read and heard during the pandemic -- and there have been hundreds, if not thousands -- that might be No. 1.

Why are asking people on this board?  None of us said it.  You're a reporter, go and ask the source.

[warriorchick]

Why are asking people on this board?  None of us said it.  You're a reporter, go and ask the source.

Exactly.

[MU82]

Why are asking people on this board?  None of us said it.  You're a reporter, go and ask the source.

I thought maybe some Christians here might be able to offer some insight for nonbelievers why it would be "entirely too messy" for employees of a Christian organization "to ask people to show proof of vaccination."

I really wasn't fishing for the kind of snarky response pbiflyer made.

I'll mark you down to as either not willing or not able to discuss the subject. Thanks!

[pbiflyer]

I thought maybe some Christians here might be able to offer some insight for nonbelievers why it would be "entirely too messy" for employees of a Christian organization "to ask people to show proof of vaccination."

I really wasn't fishing for the kind of snarky response pbiflyer made.

I'll mark you down to as either not willing or not able to discuss the subject. Thanks!

Okay, the real answer is that there is no basis in christianity to claim a reason not to ask. It was a pathetic deflection.
Less snarky, more honest. Better?

[MU82]

Okay, the real answer is that there is no basis in christianity to claim a reason not to ask. It was a pathetic deflection.
Less snarky, more honest. Better?

Yes.

FWIW ... I like snark. I just wasn't fishing for it with my question.

[shoothoops]

Several L.A. County numbers:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-06/california-delta-variant-spread-impact-masks-vaccines

99.8% of COVID-19 deaths since December have been from unvaccinated people.

[MU82]

From the NYT's David Leonhardt:

In many urban and suburban communities, Covid continues to plummet. The rate of new daily cases has fallen below three per 100,000 residents in large cities like Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Houston, Minneapolis, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Washington. As a point of comparison, the national rate of new daily cases peaked last winter above 75 per 100,000 people.

But in less populated areas — which tend to be more politically conservative and skeptical of vaccines — the virus is now surging, largely from the contagious Delta variant. The states with the worst outbreaks are Arkansas and Missouri (each with more than 16 new daily cases per 100,000 people) followed by Florida (10), Nevada (10), Wyoming (nine) and Utah (eight).

There is a clear relationship between a state's Covid death rate over the past week and its overall vaccination rate:



The biggest tragedy is that this situation is avoidable. Highly effective vaccines are available to virtually any American adult who wants one — a privilege that residents of many other countries do not have. Hundreds of U.S. clinics, including in rural communities, offer immediate, walk-in shots.

Still, only 54 percent of adults in rural areas have received at least one vaccine shot, according to the most recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll, compared with 72 percent of urban residents.

"It is the unvaccinated people who are dying," Dr. Thomas Dobbs, Mississippi's state health officer, said, according to the television station WLBT. "The unvaccinated people who are going to the hospital. The unvaccinated people who are getting diagnosed, for the most part."

Tricia Jones, a 45-year-old mother of two in Grain Valley, a small city in western Missouri, did not get the vaccine because she was concerned about the side effects. Her mother had felt sick after getting a shot, and Jones decided to wait. This spring, Jones caught the virus. She was hospitalized May 13 and died June 9.

Marc Johnson, a University of Missouri immunologist, told The Missouri Independent that he expected the state's outbreak to continue worsening for much of July. In some communities, the Delta variant has only recently arrived, suggesting a coming surge.

Despite the rise in caseloads and deaths, many Republican politicians have declined to offer a full-throated call for vaccination. Instead, state legislators in Missouri have warned hospitals not to require employees to get vaccinated. And Gov. Mike Parson has sent mixed messages.

"You're gonna have to take responsibility, to take the vaccine, if you so choose to," Parson said last week. "But you know, I think it's important to understand that there's risk involved."

A few Republican governors have taken a different approach. "We're in a race against this Delta variant," Gov. Asa Hutchinson of Arkansas said on Sunday. "The solution is the vaccinations." Gov. Jim Justice of West Virginia was blunter: Anybody who is not vaccinated, he said, has entered "the death lottery."