Investing Thread

[Hards Alumni]

I should have been more clear about what I said.

You and your wife both had college degrees.  My parents did too.  They were functionally poor for well over a decade before I was even born.  But they saved and didn't buy the newest things.  We never went out to dinner that didn't involve $1 tacos, never went to movies, and only got sports tickets when they were free.  Eventually, my parents finances improved (like your and your wife's, I imagine since you refer to yourself as a kept man).... BUT

You still had good jobs.  You weren't working for a couple of bucks over minimum wage.  I know this because you could afford a home, insurance, and still have money to invest in your 401k.   While you may not have felt tremendously comfortable, what you're describing is being middle class.  Similar to my upbringing.

I know plenty of people who haven't saved anything and are in their 60s and 70s, and they're worried.  And they should be.  I know they haven't properly saved, and enjoyed their money doing one thing or another.  Kids, healthcare costs, housing... these things require much larger portions of income than they did (as a percentage) than when you were young parents.  I think this is a major reason that people are having less children, and people my age and younger are saving more money than people older than me did as adults.  There is more uncertainty and just existing on this planet has become more expensive.

The people with poor jobs, no family support, and no savings?  They're screwed.

[MU82]

Hards - yes, to all of that.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Of the course of 50 plus years of experience in markets and the commercial world, I have repeatedly learned that markets are , for the most part, generally looking forward 6-9 months. Market is the sum of all investors though processes. In the short term Market is a voting machine and the long term a weighing machine .

What does today mean?

[rocky_warrior]

The market had a crazy unsustainable run up since June 1.  Sure it was fun imagining that it would continue, but correction was needed.  Probably a little over-corrected, but I think fundamentals are still good, and didn't adjust my strategy.

[Hards Alumni]

The market had a crazy unsustainable run up since June 1.  Sure it was fun imagining that it would continue, but correction was needed.  Probably a little over-corrected, but I think fundamentals are still good, and didn't adjust my strategy.

What is scoop's endowment up to these days?

[tower912]

I can think of few instances in the market, MU basketball, life in general, where overreact and panic are the best options.   Unless your house is on fire or your loved one just went into cardiac arrest.    Other than that, patience is usually the better option.

[The Sultan]

What is scoop's endowment up to these days?

You can't lose money in the market if you don't have money to put in the market.

[Goose]

Hards

I feel very badly for younger couples starting a family today because having a big family is extremely hard. When I grew up my best friends all had 5-9 siblings and I mean all of my best friends. I have three siblings, and we were a small family in our neighborhood. My wife and I have four kids before we were 30 and unfortunately never had another successful pregnancy after our youngest was born. That said, very thankful for the four because my wife was a high risk due to health issues.

Now, my three boys are married, and we have three grandkids, and all of my boys would love to have an old school big family. I have talked to them at length on the topic and they are resigned to the fact it likely will not happen due to the crazy cost of a raising a family. IMO, that is a long term issue created by the 15y+ bull market. The cost of living is no longer sustainable for many people to have a large family.

I know this is selfish, but I would prefer my kids having the number of children they want over seeing an overvalued 401k statement. There is nothing in life that comes close to matching my love of family and I feel badly for our kids not having the size family they would love to have.

To sum it up, ironically at our Monday family dinner (with MIL and wife's siblings) this was a big topic of conversation and was started by my BIL. My wife has seven siblings and my MIL has seventeen grandchildren and twelve come from three families. Times have changed and we all agreed that having more family would be more enjoyable than having more money.

[The Sultan]

Goose, honestly that sounds like the conversations of people who don't have a real good handle of how expensive it is to raise children these days.

You can't complain that people don't prepare enough for retirement on the one hand, but then wonder why people don't have larger families on the other.

[Hards Alumni]

I hear where you're coming from, but the stress that comes along with raising kids with a low income is a major deterrent.

If we wanted to encourage larger families the best place to start would be lowering (or eliminating) child care costs.  The amount of money spent by parents on child care is exorbitant.  Personally, I'd be in favor of child care for every child in America.  Basically extend education all the way down to newborns.  It would not be mandatory attendance of course, but it would add to the pool of available workers, elevate the impoverished, and spread the costs out over the population.

I'd love to see more people having kids who want to, but decide not to for financial reasons.

Sorry, I think we're getting off topic here a bit.

[Goose]

Hards

I think it is on topic to some degree. I think the trend of smaller families started quite some time back but think the last 15 years has changed the game. The price for the amount of wealth created has led to increased cost of living, both directly and indirectly. That is made the decision for a smaller family much easier.

On a sidenote, it was my bday a couple of weeks ago and was at MIL's for family dinner and we had a big crew, including my boys and their family. I was asked about my favorite moment in the past year, and I responded my son's wedding. I was then asked what I wanted for the upcoming year, and I said more grandkids or somehow finding a way for my 58y to have another child. My wife lectured me later that night for putting pressure on the kids and I realized how touchy of a subject that is in our family.

On another sidenote, I highly recommend to everyone to have a weekly family dinner, especially if you have older parents. My MIL says every year that family dinner is the highlight of her year and our kids (and me) have learned a great deal sitting at that dining room table.

[JWags85]

Goose, honestly that sounds like the conversations of people who don't have a real good handle of how expensive it is to raise children these days.

Not necessarily.  I know a fair amount of people from my parent's generation (non-typical Boomer mentality) who still regularly speak of the appeal of children vs a more "comfortable" financial lifestyle.  And not the "well my family had 27 kids back in the 60s", but having 3-4 versus 1 or 2.  Less vacations, less "nice" cars, etc...

My dad's parents did very well, were totally comfortable through retirement, but would have been quite affluent...except they had 7 kids.  I have a friend now whose Dad was an exec at P&G who grew up firmly middle class...cause he has 8 siblings.  And that same friend has a good job but also had 4 kids before 33 and has far less creature comforts than some of our peers who haven't been as successful financially speaking.

I know full well how extremely expensive kids are, but now that my son is starting to interact with peer groups, its fascinating to see some of the tradeoffs that people make.  Yes this is more of a middle class/upper middle class discussion, but its a valid conversation that doesn't have to mean participants are divorced from reality

On another sidenote, I highly recommend to everyone to have a weekly family dinner, especially if you have older parents. My MIL says every year that family dinner is the highlight of her year and our kids (and me) have learned a great deal sitting at that dining room table.

Couldn't agree more.  I never anticipated living close to my parents (moved to Chicago right after college, never planned on going back to Wisconsin much less moving to a different state with them) but its been such a blessing, especially with my son.  He sees my parents multiple times a week and that won't change materially as he grows.

My wife had her maternal Grandma live with them for a big chunk of her childhood and was extremely close.  I was close to my grandparents but as alluded to above, I was one of 15 grandkids on my dad's side and my maternal grandparents weren't super touchy-feely warm when i was younger (definitely changed for my grandma though).  So I didn't have that perspective, but now that I do, I completely see the value and how great it is.

[Goose]

Fluff

I will take the group at family dinner against virtually any group in regard to be grounded in reality. I'm a nut, the rest of the crew is fully gets it. I do appreciate your feedback.

Wags

My MIL is 88y and she in my 2-3 favorite nonblood relative people of all time. I hope that we are sharing time with her for many more years. She is worldly, intelligent, well read and traveled and adds to any conversation she is part of and that is pretty damn cool. I will add, she is very tolerant, but don't think she would be a fan of Fluff.

[The Sultan]

I will take the group at family dinner against virtually any group in regard to be grounded in reality.

I have no doubt you would think that.

[Goose]

Fluff

I think you missed the part of my removing myself from the group. Not sure why my complimenting my wife's family merits a comment, but go at it, buddy.

[lawdog77]

Fluff

I think you missed the part of my removing myself from the group. Not sure why my complimenting my wife's family merits a comment, but go at it, buddy.

You're new here

[The Sultan]

Fluff

I think you missed the part of my removing myself from the group. Not sure why my complimenting my wife's family merits a comment, but go at it, buddy.

Because I think you are painfully out of touch. And if your family believes the same as you, so are they.

[Goose]

Fluff,

This should make you very happy and possibly trust my post a tad more. It is my wife's family and there is very little we have in common in how we view the world. They drove the conversation and it comes from a completely different perspective than mine. The good part of my wife's family is the most respectful group of people I have ever met.

There are plenty of things that people who know me would say about me, being out of touch would not be one of them.

[The Sultan]

Fluff,

This should make you very happy and possibly trust my post a tad more.

It doesn't.

[rocket surgeon]

Fluff,

This should make you very happy and possibly trust my post a tad more. It is my wife's family and there is very little we have in common in how we view the world. They drove the conversation and it comes from a completely different perspective than mine. The good part of my wife's family is the most respectful group of people I have ever met.

There are plenty of things that people who know me would say about me, being out of touch would not be one of them.

either he is one lonely dude or the sycophantic people he hangs with put up with his narcissism; win-win eyn'a/ 

[The Sultan]

either he is one lonely dude or the sycophantic people he hangs with put up with his narcissism; win-win eyn'a/ 

How ironic.

[Goose]

rocket

Fluff is one weird dude.

[jesmu84]

People with good jobs who are well off have the opportunity to save for retirement and invest.

Those with lower paying jobs don't have that same opportunity, but that can be said for all age groups.

It's part of why we have social security... which is supposed to be the bare minimum someone can live on... which they can't always do where they want to live due to cost of living.

Wasn't SS supposed to be the 3rd leg of the retirement stool alongside individual retirement accounts and pensions?

[4everwarriors]

Fluffy BM needs to take a keyboard break. Pretty sure the pressure to type is getting to him, hey?

[The Sultan]

Fluffy BM needs to take a keyboard break. Pretty sure the pressure to type is getting to him, hey?

I suggested that Goose is out of touch, and he gets defensive about it, but you think *I* have the problem?

Interesting.