Womens Soccer Championship.

[Pakuni]

Yes sports are down on all levels, especially football. But since were not here talking about 6-12 year olds, that is disregarded eh?

Since were talking about participation among "boys," the 6-12 age range seems spot on. Isn't that the age in which you want to start kids, identify the most talented among them and shift them into specialized programs? I mean, that's how every other country does it. If we wait until high school, it's way too late.
Anyhow, your point was ridiculous and disproved by the actual data.

[Cheeks]

I've always been amazed by the certainty that some people declare that "X female athlete or team would get destroyed in Y men's sport." I think in a lot of cases it's true, especially on a peer to peer level, but I've seen claims before that men's high school teams and groups of amateur men could destroy professional women's teams that are asserted with absolute confidence. Maybe it is true but to say it with such certainty despite no proof is odd to me. The most famous example we have is the Battle of the Sexes between Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King and the female athlete won in that case. I wonder if these assertions are as true as people think or if they are just assuming.

First off, he won the first match against #1 ranked Margaret Court 6-2 and 6-1.

Later he lost to King....not apples to apples...and he was 55 years old playing a top 5 player in the world at age 29 in the prime of her career....huge difference.

Let's take a look at the recent NCAA "women's" track champion that last year competed as a male and was an absolute stiff, this year is now a "woman" and won the NCAA championship.  Interesting times.  I hope we aren't in the process of making biological female athletes so damn frustrated by this stuff they no longer bother to participate. 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/3/cece-telfer-franklin-pierce-transgender-hurdler-wi/

[rocket surgeon]

Any y'all heer woodant like ta due Alex Morgan, hey?

scoring 5 times in 90 minutes has gotta be some kind of record for endurance, even if there was extra stoppage/injury time added on, eyn'a?   at least a break in between for a cigarette err something

[Cheeks]

This is not about name dropping or bragging this is intended to provide bonafides.....I was on track for a while to play on the U-17 national team, I played the likes of Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, Aly Wagner, etc. when we were all in middle school/high school. I trained in Germany for a summer as part of their development program for the Bundesliga.....when I tell you that the women can compete with the men, it's from first hand experience.

I played against Erik Wynalda and Cobi Jones in high school.  Played in Hamburg, Germany back when it was West Germany...yes I am old, but was pretty good.  Would have walked on at MU if their coach wasn't such an enormous prick who didn't take walk ons.

Did a camp with Mia Hamm in the 90's along with Christine Lilly and others.  They are great players, but no I do not agree they can play with the guys.

[The Sultan]

It's really ridiculous that a topic devoted to the Women's World Cup devolves into a comparison of the Men's Team.

[Cheeks]

Any y'all heer woodant like ta due Alex Morgan, hey?

She grew up playing in our local club team, Cypress Elite, just down the street.  Great player.

[Cheeks]

It's really ridiculous that a topic devoted to the Women's World Cup devolves into a comparison of the Men's Team.

I think it was more about how the depth levels of women's sports are much different.  That said, the women's team and many supporters constantly compare themselves to the men's team and say they should be paid the same, etc, etc.  So how is this different?  If the comparisons are made by the women's team and others, seems only natural it would also come up in this thread in some context. 

[The Sultan]

I think it was more about how the depth levels of women's sports are much different.  That said, the women's team and many supporters constantly compare themselves to the men's team and say they should be paid the same, etc, etc.  So how is this different?  If the comparisons are made by the women's team and others, seems only natural it would also come up in this thread in some context. 

Come 2022, if the Men's Team makes the WC, I doubt there will be any comparisons to the women's team.

[brewcity77]

So there were two notable records from the Thailand win.

First, the 13-0 margin broke the 11-0 margin set by Germany in 2007 & the 12 combined goals from a men's match, Austria 7-5 Switzerland in 1954. Regarding the women's record, Germany went on to win the World Cup.

Second, the 5 goals scored by Alex Morgan tied a record set in 1991 by Michelle Akers & matched on the men's side by Oleg Salenko in 1994. Regarding the women's record, Akers & USA went on to win the World Cup.

So two major scoring records, & the last time those records were set on the women's side, the record setting team went on to win the World Cup.

[Billy Hoyle]

It was a tune up for the Algarve Cup in 2017. Not a tour of the US designed to sell merch and give the squad a US vacay. Do you think a youth team is beating their MLS parent club, much less the national team, even informally? Nope

Regardless, France and Norway in a really good one. Can't wait for US-Sweden on the 20th. France/US would be a dream matchup

2017, ok, otherwise:

"It's imperative to state that this 'game' between the USWNT and Dallas boys was not really a game at all. Before the official post was blocked it was described as a 'scrimmage' between the two squads, an informal practice."

Anyone remember the college squad that beat the Dream Team in a practice, or when Greg Page knocked out Mike Tyson while sparring? We talkin bout practice. Not a game.

[tower912]

I know Michael Beasley coat Marquette a seed line

[mu03eng]

Our problem is not participation, but rather structural. Germany reshaped their professional leagues down to the youngest ages to have a unified system that fed into Der Mannschaft. England, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, all the big Euro nations have pro clubs that develop youth talent. We don't have near the universal commitment & organization.

Contrast that with the women's game, where Title IX insured more resources dedicated to women's sports than other nations. It gave us a leg up & the early dominance was paid forward with a strong culture of women's soccer, especially when the more traditional US sports (football, softball, until recently basketball) were lagging when the 1991 USWNT was winning the World Cup.

The men comparably suck because they lack the organization & structure the women have relative to their competition.

Amen

[TSmith34, Inc.]

She grew up playing in our local club team, Cypress Elite, just down the street.  Great player.

Chicos. I'll give you props for trying to raise the bar over the fucking idiots

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

First off, he won the first match against #1 ranked Margaret Court 6-2 and 6-1.

Later he lost to King....not apples to apples...and he was 55 years old playing a top 5 player in the world at age 29 in the prime of her career....huge difference.

Let's take a look at the recent NCAA "women's" track champion that last year competed as a male and was an absolute stiff, this year is now a "woman" and won the NCAA championship.  Interesting times.  I hope we aren't in the process of making biological female athletes so damn frustrated by this stuff they no longer bother to participate. 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/3/cece-telfer-franklin-pierce-transgender-hurdler-wi/

I'm aware of the details of the match. Like I said, I wasn't talking about peer to peer comparisons. I was referring to those who insist that no matter the age of the participants (like King vs. Riggs) and no matter the inexperience of the men playing, a male team/athlete will always destroy the female team/athlete.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Since were talking about participation among "boys," the 6-12 age range seems spot on. Isn't that the age in which you want to start kids, identify the most talented among them and shift them into specialized programs? I mean, that's how every other country does it. If we wait until high school, it's way too late.
Anyhow, your point was ridiculous and disproved by the actual data.

You must not be around youth sports much.  Kids are specializing at age 8.  Parents paying for private lessons, travel teams, etc.

There are U7 kids pitch tournaments in the Milwaukee area.  That's 6 and 7 year olds. 

I know a kid that played 180 baseball games in a calendar year.  At age 10 or 11.  Was on 2 or 3 summer teams, winter league, fall league.  He's a good ball player, but is that worth it?

[warriorchick]

You must not be around youth sports much.  Kids are specializing at age 8.  Parents paying for private lessons, travel teams, etc.

There are U7 kids pitch tournaments in the Milwaukee area.  That's 6 and 7 year olds. 

I know a kid that played 180 baseball games in a calendar year.  At age 10 or 11.  Was on 2 or 3 summer teams, winter league, fall league.  He's a good ball player, but is that worth it?

Not if you are a parent that has to watch 180 games.

[Pakuni]

Our problem is not participation, but rather structural. Germany reshaped their professional leagues down to the youngest ages to have a unified system that fed into Der Mannschaft. England, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, all the big Euro nations have pro clubs that develop youth talent. We don't have near the universal commitment & organization.

Contrast that with the women's game, where Title IX insured more resources dedicated to women's sports than other nations. It gave us a leg up & the early dominance was paid forward with a strong culture of women's soccer, especially when the more traditional US sports (football, softball, until recently basketball) were lagging when the 1991 USWNT was winning the World Cup.

The men comparably suck because they lack the organization & structure the women have relative to their competition.

There's a lot I agree with here, but I think by putting the blame on "structure," you're letting off the hook some of the bad decisions (and bad decision makers) along the way.
It wasn't structure that led to the hiring of Jurgen Klinsmann, and then resistance to to his ideas for overhauling the system. People made those choices.
It wasn't structure that led to the team laying an egg in the fall of 2017, it was poor decisions made by people.
Heck, going way back to the 1998 debacle, it wasn't the structure that failed the U.S. It was the decisions by the people in charge and the players.
So, yeah, there are definitely structural issues - and pay-to-play is the biggest of them - but pinning too much of the blame on structure removes too much responsibilities for the numerous gaffes people in power have made along the way.

[JWags85]

There's a lot I agree with here, but I think by putting the blame on "structure," you're letting off the hook some of the bad decisions (and bad decision makers) along the way.
It wasn't structure that led to the hiring of Jurgen Klinsmann, and then resistance to to his ideas for overhauling the system. People made those choices.
It wasn't structure that led to the team laying an egg in the fall of 2017, it was poor decisions made by people.
Heck, going way back to the 1998 debacle, it wasn't the structure that failed the U.S. It was the decisions by the people in charge and the players.
So, yeah, there are definitely structural issues - and pay-to-play is the biggest of them - but pinning too much of the blame on structure removes too much responsibilities for the numerous gaffes people in power have made along the way.

I don't disagree, but I think those are more linked than you're implying.  There is a lot of "this is the way we do things here" mentality, IMO, with how some of US Soccer operates.  US Soccer feels like a division of a successful company, but that division is getting destroyed against its competition but they refuse to adapt or mirror whats giving the competition the edge, and stick to their established way of doing things.  Both the structure and decision making is part of the same toxic tree.

I look at the Josh Sargent situation.  He made the smart decision to go to Europe to further develop but even that cant save him from domestic blunders like this International cycle.  That feels like both a structural and a mentality/decision problem to me.

[brewcity77]

I added a response in the Futbol Talk thread. I don't want to further digress from what should be a good WWC discussion.

[Its DJOver]

Chile's defense was very organized against Sweden, although they benefited from the heavy rain.  If we knock in 5+ again I'll start to believe more of how good we are instead of how bad Thailand is.  Also if Sauerbrunn comes back and pushes Ertz into the midfield I'll be curious to see who gets pushed to the bench because Horan, Lavelle and Mewis all looked great, especially considering that they had combined for zero WWC appearances. 

For being considered contenders, none of France, Germany, or England have looked great yet.  They've gotten the job done thus far, but I am far from convinced (especially if the US continues to knock goals in for fun).

[Cheeks]

Come 2022, if the Men's Team makes the WC, I doubt there will be any comparisons to the women's team.

Oh I suspect there will be many because they are paid more than the women and the revenues generated by the men's teams in FIFA dwarf the women's side. 

[Cheeks]

You must not be around youth sports much.  Kids are specializing at age 8.  Parents paying for private lessons, travel teams, etc.

There are U7 kids pitch tournaments in the Milwaukee area.  That's 6 and 7 year olds. 

I know a kid that played 180 baseball games in a calendar year.  At age 10 or 11.  Was on 2 or 3 summer teams, winter league, fall league.  He's a good ball player, but is that worth it?

Tommy John surgeries for high school players is getting insane.  Way too much playing.  Out here where the weather is great, the number of games for travel ball has become obscene.

[Jay Bee]

How cute is Alex Morgan? Geez

[Cheeks]

How cute is Alex Morgan? Geez

soccer player from LA Galaxy is her husband.

[JWags85]

soccer player from LA Galaxy is her husband.

Yep, thats why she pushed for a move to Orlando in the NWSL.  But that was a brief bit of unity, cause he's not that good and Orlando City kicked him to the curb.