Womens Soccer Championship.

[warriorchick]

This is the textbook definition of trolling, just FYI

Oooh, my first one!

Also, it was meant to be gentle teasing.  I didn't think anyone would hit the bait as hard as they did.

[#UnleashSean]

Oooh, my first one!

Also, it was meant to be gentle teasing.  I didn't think anyone would hit the bait as hard as they did.

Have you scooped?

[Pakuni]

  I have an issue with the constant need to take shots at the USMNT as a result of USWNT success.  They each have their own strengths and weaknesses.  Its as tired as the old farts complaining that the women celebrated too much yesterday.

So, the USNWT is dominant because it's far better funded than the great majority of its competitors.
But, if such funding is as key to a program's success as you claim, then why does the USMNT consistently underperform when compared to lesser funded rivals? And why is it unfair to criticize the USMNT for squandering its resources, in light of the USWNT's success over its poorer competitors?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I've always been amazed by the certainty that some people declare that "X female athlete or team would get destroyed in Y men's sport." I think in a lot of cases it's true, especially on a peer to peer level, but I've seen claims before that men's high school teams and groups of amateur men could destroy professional women's teams that are asserted with absolute confidence. Maybe it is true but to say it with such certainty despite no proof is odd to me. The most famous example we have is the Battle of the Sexes between Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King and the female athlete won in that case. I wonder if these assertions are as true as people think or if they are just assuming.

[mu03eng]

So because you, as a HS senior, got beat by a top 3 US women's player in her prime, the Women's team could thus beat the men...ok.  3rd tier athletic talent is also an absolute joke of a statement.

This is not about name dropping or bragging this is intended to provide bonafides.....I was on track for a while to play on the U-17 national team, I played the likes of Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, Aly Wagner, etc. when we were all in middle school/high school. I trained in Germany for a summer as part of their development program for the Bundesliga.....when I tell you that the women can compete with the men, it's from first hand experience.

[tower912]

I keep flashing back to freshman year.   One of the guys from my floor was dating a basketball player from the women's team.   He was  about 6'1 and had played high school basketball.   She was also about 6'1 and, as a freshman, not a starter, IIRC.    I watched them play one one one and she crushed him.   

[Pakuni]

A high school men's team would murder the best college women's team in basketball, possibly a wnba team.

https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2019/5/23/18636639/wnba-male-practice-squads

[JWags85]

So, the USNWT is dominant because it's far better funded than the great majority of its competitors.
But, if such funding is as key to a program's success as you claim, then why does the USMNT consistently underperform when compared to lesser funded rivals? And why is it unfair to criticize the USMNT for squandering its resources, in light of the USWNT's success over its poorer competitors?

I think the Women’s team is run much better as a developmental progression. The US struggles with a lot of political drama whether it be pressure to cater to the MLS, internal vs external development, etc...

The other elephant in the room is soccer’s appeal in the US vs other countries, men vs women. I’d argue it’s the premiere women’s sport in the US, especially following the 1998 Women’s WC. It’s nowhere near that for men. Compare that to a lesser funded national team like Honduras or Costa Rica, where every little boy in that country is dreaming of playing in the WC and that bleeds through. It’s certainly changing in the US but that doesn’t happen overnight

[warriorchick]

The other elephant in the room is soccer’s appeal in the US vs other countries, men vs women. I’d argue it’s the premiere women’s sport in the US, especially following the 1998 Women’s WC. It’s nowhere near that for men. Compare that to a lesser funded national team like Honduras or Costa Rica, where every little boy in that country is dreaming of playing in the WC and that bleeds through. It’s certainly changing in the US but that doesn’t happen overnight

Yep.  Plenty of boys that play football, hockey or lacrosse in the U.S. would be playing soccer if they were born in another country.

[JWags85]

This is not about name dropping or bragging this is intended to provide bonafides.....I was on track for a while to play on the U-17 national team, I played the likes of Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, Aly Wagner, etc. when we were all in middle school/high school. I trained in Germany for a summer as part of their development program for the Bundesliga.....when I tell you that the women can compete with the men, it's from first hand experience.

Thats very cool.  And all well and good.  But again, thats like saying cause Breanna Stewart competed well against a top 150 recruit during his AAU season, the WNBA All Star team is beating a team of NBA players.

Also, not for nothing, FC Dallas' youth squad beat the USWNT a few years ago, I wanna say 2017?  This whole argument is just apples to oranges for me, thats all. It doesn't make me anti-women, or a hater, I just think its silly and unfair to both parties.

[Pakuni]

I think the Women’s team is run much better as a developmental progression. The US struggles with a lot of political drama whether it be pressure to cater to the MLS, internal vs external development, etc...

The other elephant in the room is soccer’s appeal in the US vs other countries, men vs women. I’d argue it’s the premiere women’s sport in the US, especially following the 1998 Women’s WC. It’s nowhere near that for men. Compare that to a lesser funded national team like Honduras or Costa Rica, where every little boy in that country is dreaming of playing in the WC and that bleeds through. It’s certainly changing in the US but that doesn’t happen overnight

Costa Rica has a population under 5 million.
Even if only one in every 100 American boys focused on soccer compared to every single Costa Rican boy (which, of course, isn't true), the U.S. would still be drawing from a much larger player pool. And that doesn't even address the many, many other advantages bestowed upon American athletes.

Why is it hard to admit the USMNT vastly underperforms and the success of the USNWT simply highlights that?

[JWags85]

Costa Rica has a population under 5 million.
Even if only one in every 100 American boys focused on soccer compared to every single Costa Rican boy (which, of course, isn't true), the U.S. would still be drawing from a much larger player pool. And that doesn't even address the many, many other advantages bestowed upon American athletes.

Why is it hard to admit the USMNT vastly underperforms and the success of the USNWT simply highlights that?

Because I don't think its as simple as people make it out.  Its more than just funding and resources.  I think US Soccer (the org) from the Men's side is a joke.  Its been run incompetently for a long time in many ways, but they still have been fighting an uphill battle, even if doing things "the right way" to make the US a viable world power in the sport.

The Women have a much more level playing field, before resources, thus they were primed to take advantage.

[ATL MU Warrior]

https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2019/5/23/18636639/wnba-male-practice-squads

I played on one of those practice squads when I lived in Miami. We beat the WNBA team pretty easily in scrimmage. The guys on the team were nothing special.

The women were HIGHLY skilled, but could not compete with speed and strength of the men.

[Billy Hoyle]

Also, not for nothing, FC Dallas' youth squad beat the USWNT a few years ago, I wanna say 2017?  This whole argument is just apples to oranges for me, thats all. It doesn't make me anti-women, or a hater, I just think its silly and unfair to both parties.

Yes, in an informal scrimmage in 2015.  Using that as your standard is like when D1 teams lose to lower division teams in exhibition games or when USL teams beat Premiership teams on a US Tour (e.g. Minnesota United knocking off Swansea).

[Mr. Nielsen]

Any y'all heer woodant like ta due Alex Morgan, hey?

[rocket surgeon]

remember how good michelle wie was?  they began to rave about her like tiger at the age of 4.  someone thought she was soooo good that she should play in the PGA at the age of 16.  i believe that ruined her.  she is competitive and fun to watch(heyoooo) but has been passed by, by many others.  she has won 5 events total, including 1 major(2014 u.s. women's open)

[#UnleashSean]

https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2019/5/23/18636639/wnba-male-practice-squads

Gives me a link about them struggling to find men to play. Most of those dudes never played highschool ball.

Besides that, bringing this up proves my point even more. The WNBA teams are looking to find MEN to practice against? Why, because they have enough strength, speed, and talent to play against the top 0.01% of woman. Not 1 of those guys played a lick of even D2 college ball.

From your article "the strength and speed that’s often more easily cultivated in men helps push even the best women athletes in perfecting their game"

[JWags85]

Yes, in an informal scrimmage in 2015.  Using that as your standard is like when D1 teams lose to lower division teams in exhibition games or when USL teams beat Premiership teams on a US Tour (e.g. Minnesota United knocking off Swansea).

It was a tune up for the Algarve Cup in 2017. Not a tour of the US designed to sell merch and give the squad a US vacay. Do you think a youth team is beating their MLS parent club, much less the national team, even informally? Nope

Regardless, France and Norway in a really good one. Can’t wait for US-Sweden on the 20th. France/US would be a dream matchup

[#UnleashSean]

Costa Rica has a population under 5 million.
Even if only one in every 100 American boys focused on soccer compared to every single Costa Rican boy (which, of course, isn't true), the U.S. would still be drawing from a much larger player pool. And that doesn't even address the many, many other advantages bestowed upon American athletes.

Why is it hard to admit the USMNT vastly underperforms and the success of the USNWT simply highlights that?

And how many of those 1 in 100 are athletically top notch? How many of those 1 in 100 decides to stay with soccer. It's not opinion or hyperbole to say that a vast majority of Americans play baseball, basketball, football, and hockey. Out of that vast majority, there are a very select few who have the ability to play these sports in college. Out of those select few, there are even fewer who will make money playing the sport. The pool gets very slim very fast. Now imagine that with your 1 in 100 claim, now knowing that 99% of the athletic kids are not playing soccer to begin with.

[#UnleashSean]

I've always been amazed by the certainty that some people declare that "X female athlete or team would get destroyed in Y men's sport." I think in a lot of cases it's true, especially on a peer to peer level, but I've seen claims before that men's high school teams and groups of amateur men could destroy professional women's teams that are asserted with absolute confidence. Maybe it is true but to say it with such certainty despite no proof is odd to me. The most famous example we have is the Battle of the Sexes between Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King and the female athlete won in that case. I wonder if these assertions are as true as people think or if they are just assuming.

I'd say a 30 year old woman beating a 53 year old man is not very surprising. I'd use this example instead:

"Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[56] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[57][56] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[58] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. With a broken wrist and a badly sprained ankle following a bar brawl he first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[56]Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[59] and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[56]"

[jesmu84]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/u-women-hockey-team-scrimmaging-against-high-school-170704740--oly.html

[Pakuni]

And how many of those 1 in 100 are athletically top notch? How many of those 1 in 100 decides to stay with soccer. It's not opinion or hyperbole to say that a vast majority of Americans play baseball, basketball, football, and hockey.

Actually, it would be opinion and hyperbole.

More American kids ages 6-12 play soccer than any other sport than baseball and basketball. Way more than hockey, and significantly more than tackle and flag football combined.
And it's certainly not the vast majority that plays any of these sports. The most popular team sport - basketball - only had 14.1 percent participation.  Baseball had 13.1 percent. soccer is third at 7.7 percent.

https://www.aspenprojectplay.org/kids-sports-participation-rates

[ZiggysFryBoy]

This is not about name dropping or bragging this is intended to provide bonafides.....I was on track for a while to play on the U-17 national team, I played the likes of Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, Aly Wagner, etc. when we were all in middle school/high school. I trained in Germany for a summer as part of their development program for the Bundesliga.....when I tell you that the women can compete with the men, it's from first hand experience.

The ODP is no joke when it comes to US youth soccer, especially at U17.  This ain't the local youth league, it's the best kids in the country.

Did you play at MU?

[#UnleashSean]

Actually, it would be opinion and hyperbole.

More American kids ages 6-12 play soccer than any other sport than baseball and basketball. Way more than hockey, and significantly more than tackle and flag football combined.
And it's certainly not the vast majority that plays any of these sports. The most popular team sport - basketball - only had 14.1 percent participation.  Baseball had 13.1 percent. soccer is third at 7.7 percent.

https://www.aspenprojectplay.org/kids-sports-participation-rates

Yes sports are down on all levels, especially football. But since were not here talking about 6-12 year olds, that is disregarded eh?

[brewcity77]

Actually, it would be opinion and hyperbole.

More American kids ages 6-12 play soccer than any other sport than baseball and basketball. Way more than hockey, and significantly more than tackle and flag football combined.
And it's certainly not the vast majority that plays any of these sports. The most popular team sport - basketball - only had 14.1 percent participation.  Baseball had 13.1 percent. soccer is third at 7.7 percent.

https://www.aspenprojectplay.org/kids-sports-participation-rates

Our problem is not participation, but rather structural. Germany reshaped their professional leagues down to the youngest ages to have a unified system that fed into Der Mannschaft. England, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, all the big Euro nations have pro clubs that develop youth talent. We don't have near the universal commitment & organization.

Contrast that with the women's game, where Title IX insured more resources dedicated to women's sports than other nations. It gave us a leg up & the early dominance was paid forward with a strong culture of women's soccer, especially when the more traditional US sports (football, softball, until recently basketball) were lagging when the 1991 USWNT was winning the World Cup.

The men comparably suck because they lack the organization & structure the women have relative to their competition.