MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on September 24, 2019, 03:28:09 PM

Title: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: tower912 on September 24, 2019, 03:28:09 PM
https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2019/09/joey-hausers-status-uncertain-joshua-langford-on-the-mend-as-msu-opens-practice.html

Does anyone know the rationale?    Is this just pro forma?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Bocephys on September 24, 2019, 03:31:47 PM
This is likely to be as successful as the last letter he wrote.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: TallTitan34 on September 24, 2019, 03:32:47 PM
Does anyone know the rationale?

Hardship.  Markus was a big meanie to him.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on September 24, 2019, 03:35:00 PM
This is likely to be as successful as the last letter he wrote.

Well done.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: mileskishnish72 on September 24, 2019, 04:45:52 PM
Joey being Joey.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 24, 2019, 04:47:48 PM
Maybe the ncaa gave him a silent verbal that they'd approve it?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 24, 2019, 04:48:35 PM
https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2019/09/joey-hausers-status-uncertain-joshua-langford-on-the-mend-as-msu-opens-practice.html

Does anyone know the rationale?    Is this just pro forma?

he didn't get to shoot enough cuz markus was a ball hog
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Oldgym on September 24, 2019, 05:00:45 PM
Maybe the ncaa gave him a silent verbal that they'd approve it?

NICE!!
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 24, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
Hope he wears a cup against Wisconsin.  Also hope his mom wears a significant amount of green to the Trohl Center
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: BallBoy on September 24, 2019, 05:49:43 PM
https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2019/09/joey-hausers-status-uncertain-joshua-langford-on-the-mend-as-msu-opens-practice.html

Does anyone know the rationale?    Is this just pro forma?
he is petitioning that his first year shouldn’t count towards eligibility because he couldn’t participate and mostly that he was misinformed on the impact to his eligibility
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 24, 2019, 05:53:20 PM
he is petitioning that his first year shouldn’t count towards eligibility because he couldn’t participate and mostly that he was misinformed on the impact to his eligibility

He would have to be a complete and utter idiot to not know the effects that'd have on his eligibility... actually holds up
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: lawdog77 on September 24, 2019, 06:14:16 PM
he is petitioning that his first year shouldn’t count towards eligibility because he couldn’t participate and mostly that he was misinformed on the impact to his eligibility
I don't think that is the reason. That reason would not make him immediately eligible. That would just give him an extra year on the back end. I think it's more about being "forced" to go to Marquette.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Herman Cain on September 24, 2019, 06:18:49 PM
He would have to be a complete and utter idiot to not know the effects that'd have on his eligibility... actually holds up
Said it at the time , I felt it was a mistake for him to not finish out high school. This was completely his decision and he has to own up to it.

That said, I hope he gets the waiver.  If for no other reason, to protect MU good name in that they were a party to this  under the theory that Joey would have a better rehab under their direction.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Class71 on September 24, 2019, 07:23:34 PM
Think it is time to move on. Cheap shots at a young player is disappointing.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on September 24, 2019, 07:23:44 PM
he is petitioning that his first year shouldn’t count towards eligibility because he couldn’t participate and mostly that he was misinformed on the impact to his eligibility

LOL!

More like he was misinformed about his ability to be a one and done.

Sorry, but Joey comes off as a whiny little bitch. I root for most Marquette transfers, but I won’t be sad to see Joey fail at MSU if that comes fruition. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: BallBoy on September 24, 2019, 07:27:39 PM
I don't think that is the reason. That reason would not make him immediately eligible. That would just give him an extra year on the back end. I think it's more about being "forced" to go to Marquette.

Five year clock rule
If you play at a Division I school, you have five-calendar years in which to play four seasons of competition. Your five-year clock starts when you enroll as a full-time student at any college. Thereafter, your clock continues, even if you spend an academic year in residence as a result of transferring; decide to red shirt, if you do not attend school or even if you go part-time during your college career.

https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2019/09/tom-izzo-doubtful-that-joey-hauser-plays-for-michigan-state-this-year.html

If you follow the link in the article, it says Izzo does not believe Joey will get the waiver to play immediately but expects Joey to play 3 years for MSU. Only way that happens is to contest the first year that he was in school and push for a medical waiver to get year 6.

If you look as the criteria they need to show for immediate eligibility there were conditions outside of his control that impacted health, safety or well being of student athlete. Izzo states MSU put this together so I doubt they would throw MU under the bus for legal reasons. Being forced to go to the school doesn’t meet those criteria. It would need to be MU forced him to play hurt or the doctors cleared him to play when he wasn’t ready hence the need for him to transfer. I doubt MSU goes that way because they would potentially be disparaging MU doctors and coaching staff.

I think though the request for immediate eligibility was made it was really to make the request for the 3rd year more likely and year one shouldn’t count. He didn’t give him immediate eligibility but we will give him that extra year. It also doesn’t hurt to ask.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 24, 2019, 07:28:13 PM
LOL!

More like he was misinformed about his ability to be a one and done.

Sorry, but Joey comes off as a whiny little bitch. I root for most Marquette transfers, but I won’t be sad to see Joey fail at MSU if that comes fruition. 

It’s just doing what he needs to do. No need to be judgemental. If an MU player did this, we would cheer it.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on September 24, 2019, 07:37:38 PM
Joey who?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 24, 2019, 07:45:41 PM
Think it is time to move on. Cheap shots at a young player is disappointing.

you mean a young adult? yeah theres fully grown men on here that have been are dicks to student posters all the time where are you to call them out?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Retire0 on September 24, 2019, 08:12:12 PM
Good for Joey. He’s maturing, he’s going to need a full college career to sniff the G-League and high Euros.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 24, 2019, 08:16:53 PM
Joey who?


Yeah, I was wondering too.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on September 24, 2019, 08:17:19 PM
Feel sorry for the kid. He's been unhappy and quit on his high school and college team. He has to live with being labeled a "quitter."
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: WhiteTrash on September 24, 2019, 08:23:20 PM
I doubt MSU goes that way because they would potentially be disparaging MU doctors and coaching staff.
The thought that MSU and Tom Izzo would engage in unethical and potentially illegal conduct is crazy. Just plain crazy.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 24, 2019, 08:26:34 PM
Feel sorry for the kid. He's been unhappy and quit on his high school and college team. He has to live with being labeled a "quitter."

How did he quit on his high school team?  He was injured.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: real chili 83 on September 24, 2019, 08:29:22 PM
It’s just doing what he needs to do. No need to be judgemental. If an MU player did this, we would cheer it.

Quit acting all logical, and stuff.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jay Bee on September 24, 2019, 09:02:51 PM
Five year clock rule
If you follow the link in the article, it says Izzo does not believe Joey will get the waiver to play immediately but expects Joey to play 3 years for MSU. Only way that happens is to contest the first year that he was in school and push for a medical waiver to get year 6.

Don't trust mlive articles.

You don't ax for a Five Year Rule Waiver until your time has been exhausted. He's asking for immediate eligibility.

Who knows all the claims and pleas that may come up. 'they made me come there early after a weird injury', etc... but, that's what this is about. It's not a 5 year rule waiver thing. It's a now thing.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: #UnleashJayce on September 24, 2019, 09:09:22 PM
This thread is embarrassing
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: #UnleashJayce on September 24, 2019, 09:11:56 PM
Feel sorry for the kid. He's been unhappy and quit on his high school and college team. He has to live with being labeled a "quitter."

TIL a broken ankle is "Quitting"
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: tower912 on September 24, 2019, 09:24:30 PM

Mentioned here...https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2019/09/24/michigan-state-basketball-tom-izzo-practice/2432313001/

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2019/09/24/michigan-state-spartans-joshua-langford-returns-basketball-court/2432511001/


I did not mean this as a thread to bash Joey.   I am just trying to figure out what the rationale is.   
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jay Bee on September 24, 2019, 09:34:23 PM
Mentioned here...https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2019/09/24/michigan-state-basketball-tom-izzo-practice/2432313001/

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2019/09/24/michigan-state-spartans-joshua-langford-returns-basketball-court/2432511001/


I did not mean this as a thread to bash Joey.   I am just trying to figure out what the rationale is.

Plea is who the hell knows. Reason is the NCAA has made bizarro decisions, worth a try. Especially in a changing environment.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 24, 2019, 09:37:29 PM
This thread is embarrassing

Yep. People here seem to never tire of ripping the Hausers. Much of it either nonsensical or made up.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Its DJOver on September 24, 2019, 09:37:47 PM
Joey who?

My thoughts exactly.  I'll treat him like every other MSU player; hope he tears it up against UW-extension Madison, don't really care what he does the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: dgies9156 on September 24, 2019, 09:37:55 PM
The Baby Hauser quit on his team at Marquette. He didn't get his rattle so he ran out on his teammates. The Baby Hauser let them down pure and simple. He can transfer, but by gosh, follow the rules.

If the Baby Hauser didn't want to be here, he should not have come to Marquette.

Once you make a decision, you live with the ramifications. That's true in the real world and the Baby Hauser will find that out over and over again. Only going forward, Mommy and Daddy won't be able to bail you out. That's life Baby Hauser. Get used to it.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on September 24, 2019, 09:47:51 PM
Yep. People here seem to never tire of ripping the Hausers. Much of it either nonsensical or made up.

Just the Hausers?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 24, 2019, 09:53:54 PM
Just the Hausers?

Nope.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on September 24, 2019, 09:56:57 PM
Yep. People here seem to never tire of ripping the Hausers. Much of it either nonsensical or made up.

Joey simply does not matter to Marquette basketball now. Which means, in the context of me being a Marquette basketball fan, he doesn't matter to me. I don't dislike him, don't wish him ill will at all. I merely do not care about his basketball career now any more than I care about Jack Hoiberg, Brock Washington or any other Spartan.

Sam, I was a little more emotionally invested in. Three nice years as a Warrior, a kid who worked his butt off to make our team better. The shot he hit against Creighton is one of my favorite MU hoops memories from recent years. I didn't like the way his time at Marquette ended, but again I wish him no ill will. But he chose not to be a Warrior, so that's that.

Joey and Sam can go on to greatness at MSU and Va ... or not. Either way, it won't affect me one iota unless they meet Marquette in the tournament.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 24, 2019, 09:57:30 PM
Joey who?

Mike,

Joey the guy you've written hundreds (thousands?) of words about since his transfer. Guess you forgot.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on September 24, 2019, 10:07:18 PM
Nope.

So why the pearl clutching over the Hausers?
The cheap shots are dumb. But only slightly more so than the "how dare you speak ill of those fine young men" routine.
Newsflash - fans generally don't show much love to players who choose to leave their teams ... unless, you know, they're bad.
It's not exactly shocking.  I'm far more surprised by the urge some have here to stick up for them against any slight, real or imagined.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 24, 2019, 10:16:00 PM
So why the pearl clutching over the Hausers?
The cheap shots are dumb. But only slightly more so than the "how dare you speak ill of those fine young men" routine.
Newsflash - fans generally don't show much love to players who choose to leave their teams ... unless, you know, they're bad.
It's not exactly shocking.

Pearl clutching? Saying "How dare you"...Really? That's more than a little over the top.

Since when is setting the record straight when people say dumb or provably false things a crime. You do it rather frequently and in general I applaud you. Don't want to call out morons who claim Joey H quit on his HS team when he broke his ankle? Fine, no problem. But why rip those who do?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: forgetful on September 24, 2019, 10:22:36 PM
Don't trust mlive articles.

You don't ax for a Five Year Rule Waiver until your time has been exhausted. He's asking for immediate eligibility.

Who knows all the claims and pleas that may come up. 'they made me come there early after a weird injury', etc... but, that's what this is about. It's not a 5 year rule waiver thing. It's a now thing.

he is petitioning that his first year shouldn’t count towards eligibility because he couldn’t participate and mostly that he was misinformed on the impact to his eligibility

Jay Bee has it right. He is petitioning for immediate eligibility. That has nothing to do with his "first year" and whether it counts or not.

There is next to no reason the NCAA would allow such a waiver.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 24, 2019, 10:24:52 PM
Pearl clutching? Saying "How dare you"...Really? That's more than a little over the top.

Since when is setting the record straight when people say dumb or provably false things a crime. You do it rather frequently and in general I applaud you. Don't want to call out morons who claim Joey H quit on his HS team when he broke his ankle? Fine, no problem. But why rip those who do?

Well, in that case, Joey didn’t break his ankle...more so, this article doesn’t help his case much. Izzo doesn’t seem too confident either on the request.

https://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/marquette-golden-eagles-joey-hauser.html
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on September 24, 2019, 10:28:49 PM
I’m just shocked that, after the meat summit men told us that the decision of the Hausers was met with nearly universal applause from the team, only Joey and Sam left.

Beyond that it is hysterical that the Hausers somehow feel Joey has some grounds to stand on in order to be eligible to play right away.

Decisions have consequences. Transferring is a decision. Sitting out a year is the consequence.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 24, 2019, 10:42:24 PM
Well, in that case, Joey didn’t break his ankle...

Sorry, tore ligaments that required surgery - much different. Guess he did quit on his high school team.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on September 24, 2019, 10:48:00 PM
Pearl clutching? Saying "How dare you"...Really? That's more than a little over the top.

Since when is setting the record straight when people say dumb or provably false things a crime. You do it rather frequently and in general I applaud you. Don't want to call out morons who claim Joey H quit on his HS team when he broke his ankle? Fine, no problem. But why rip those who do?

Yeah, there's definitely some pearl clutching going on here. Not necessarily by you.
Whether Joey quit on his high school team is a matter of opinion. I would say not. Others could point out that rather than stick around and support his high school teammates in whatever way he could, he bolted for Milwaukee to get an early jump on his college experience. I might not make that argument, but it's wrong to suggest that his injury caused him to leave his team.

But, again, back the point ... why is anyone taken aback by hard feelings for a couple of guys who left a team with legit Final 4 potential to chase their best interests as individuals? I'd be more surprised if there weren't hard feelings. And I'm definitely surprised that some here feel the need to defend them. I haven't ripped them, insulted them, called them selfish, etc., but I'm sure as heck not going to stick up for two guys who sunk what could have been the best MU team in 15+ years. Makes me wonder why anyone here would.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 24, 2019, 10:54:15 PM
Sorry, tore ligaments that required surgery - much different. Guess he did quit on his high school team.

Well, you went into a tear about “setting the record straight”.   A cast is one thing. A complicated surgery by a NBA doctor and close access to a top notch rehab staff are good reasons to start college early.  Sounds wise to me.
 
Please leave me out of the “he quit on his high school” narrative.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: BallBoy on September 24, 2019, 11:34:23 PM
Jay Bee has it right. He is petitioning for immediate eligibility. That has nothing to do with his "first year" and whether it counts or not.

There is next to no reason the NCAA would allow such a waiver.

My point is that he is applying for something he knows he isn't going to get because he wants to be able to say well you didn't give me it so I should get the 5 year waiver when I asked and when I ask for it is because I wasn't able to play my first year.  There is no harm in making a request.  The only bad ankle he has to stand on is his first year in school and whether due to his injury was really "able to play".  If the immediate waiver is given then it solves two birds with one stone so why not try. 

As he came a year early it would be hard to say he didn't know the coaches, their style, that he was away from home with a sick family, etc. so he would need to say that he (and his brother) was(were) rushed back from injury to play when they shouldn't have been making his wellbeing and health at risk.  Unless he has documented proof that would be a very tough direction to go so I believe he is just test running the 5 year request as they usually give the waiver to those who were injured for 2 years like Otule versus just one year and a transfer. 

As I also previously noted, MSU filled this out for him as required by the rule book so I think it is going to be less inflammatory regarding the care he was given.  They can't afford another lawsuit and the statement above would construe malpractice on MU doctors part.

Waiver: An action that sets aside an NCAA rule because a specific, extraordinary circumstance prevents you from meeting the rule. An NCAA school may file a waiver on your behalf; you cannot file a waiver for yourself. The school does not administer the waiver, the conference office or NCAA does.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: willie warrior on September 25, 2019, 06:05:49 AM
This thread is embarrassing
Agreed. Character revealed on some of the Wojo worshippers.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: tower912 on September 25, 2019, 06:19:05 AM
Reading Izzo's quotes, he considers it routine to apply for the waiver, even though he knows it is unlikely to be approved.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 25, 2019, 06:41:40 AM
Agreed. Character revealed on some of the Wojo worshippers.

Character revealed is a Buzz quote.  Also, you’re the first one to bring up Wojo in this thread. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 25, 2019, 07:08:00 AM
The Baby Hauser quit on his team at Marquette. He didn't get his rattle so he ran out on his teammates. The Baby Hauser let them down pure and simple. He can transfer, but by gosh, follow the rules.


He is following the rules.  The rules allow for a waiver application.

I'm no fan of the Hausers, but this idea that he's being a "baby" and that it is somehow a moral failing to apply for a waiver when the NCAA rules allow for it, is simply weird. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: lawdog77 on September 25, 2019, 07:32:15 AM

He is following the rules.  The rules allow for a waiver application.

I'm no fan of the Hausers, but this idea that he's being a "baby" and that it is somehow a moral failing to apply for a waiver when the NCAA rules allow for it, is simply weird.
Exactly. If Koby would have applied for one last year, I would have been 100% for it.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: StillAWarrior on September 25, 2019, 07:52:00 AM
Yep. People here seem to never tire of ripping the Hausers. Much of it either nonsensical or made up.

In fact, I'd guess that it's more likely than not that the waiver request was MSU's idea, and not Joey's.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 25, 2019, 07:57:48 AM
I kind of wish MU would start to apply for every transfer too.  The merits behind the granted waivers over the past few years are low -- so why not.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 25, 2019, 08:00:53 AM
I kind of wish MU would start to apply for every transfer too.  The merits behind the granted waivers over the past few years are low -- so why not.

I wonder if they do and we just don’t hear about it?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on September 25, 2019, 08:02:33 AM
In fact, I'd guess that it's more likely than not that the waiver request was MSU's idea, and not Joey's.

This is probably true. And even if it's not, who cares. There's nothing wrong with him trying for a waiver.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: StillAWarrior on September 25, 2019, 08:39:59 AM
This is probably true. And even if it's not, who cares. There's nothing wrong with him trying for a waiver.

I agree.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on September 25, 2019, 08:56:42 AM
Since when is setting the record straight when people say dumb or provably false things a crime. Don't want to call out morons who claim Joey H quit on his HS team when he broke his ankle?

It's dopey for some to claim that Joey "quit" on his high school team. The only people saying that are those looking for a reaction from Scoop's pro-Hauser faction.

I also don't blame him (or MSU) for seeking the waiver. The NCAA is all over the map in either granting or denying these waivers, so it's worth a shot.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: brewcity77 on September 25, 2019, 09:57:55 AM
It doesn't matter much to me if he gets it or not, but if he ends up having graduated early so he could rehab his injury and that costs him a year of eligibility, it sucks. I get why that would be the case, but unfortunate for the kid if it is.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Greggery Peccary on September 25, 2019, 11:12:40 AM
This is probably true. And even if it's not, who cares. There's nothing wrong with him trying for a waiver.
Izzo is quoted in 1 of the articles posted stating that MSU applies for this waiver for every transfer they get. Just an MSU routine.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lazar's Headband on September 25, 2019, 11:22:42 AM
Exactly. If Koby would have applied for one last year, I would have been 100% for it.

I would have said Koby had no grounds to get a waiver.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: brewcity77 on September 25, 2019, 11:27:25 AM
I would have said Koby had no grounds to get a waiver.

I would have said the same about Mustapha Heron.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Its DJOver on September 25, 2019, 11:30:38 AM
I would have said the same about Mustapha Heron.
Eh, he at least had family in the region.  How legitimate his mom's "illness" was can be called into question though.  I wouldn't have thought he'd get it, but it makes more sense than Joey or Koby getting one.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 25, 2019, 11:43:54 AM
Eh, he at least had family in the region.  How legitimate his mom's "illness" was can be called into question though.  I wouldn't have thought he'd get it, but it makes more sense than Joey or Koby getting one.

Toronto is exponentially closer to Milwaukee than Utah.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Its DJOver on September 25, 2019, 11:47:00 AM
Toronto is exponentially closer to Milwaukee than Utah.

I doubt itd be close enough.  Mustapha's mom was living in Connecticut and was recovering from a "concussion".  I didn't think he'd get it because the lack of severity regarding the illness, but the distance made sense for him.  Point is that he had a stronger case than Koby would have, or Joey does have.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2019, 12:00:34 PM
It's dopey for some to claim that Joey "quit" on his high school team. The only people saying that are those looking for a reaction from Scoop's pro-Hauser faction.

I also don't blame him (or MSU) for seeking the waiver. The NCAA is all over the map in either granting or denying these waivers, so it's worth a shot.

The NCAA has cracked down (again) after the blowback on Justin Fields and Tathan Martell getting their waivers.  They'll need documented runoff (which didn't happen) or some major hardship that prevented him from returning to MU or necessitated him transferring to MSU (family emergency within 100 miles of campus, which isn't the case). Being frustrated that Marcus didn't pass him the ball enough doesn't qualify. It's actually rather irresponsible of MSU to file waivers for every transfer
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: TAMU Garcia on September 25, 2019, 12:15:40 PM
Most of this thread was definitely unnecessary. Pretty sure most high major sit out transfers apply for waivers just in case the NCAA is feeling generous
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2019, 12:25:07 PM
I doubt itd be close enough.  Mustapha's mom was living in Connecticut and was recovering from a "concussion".  I didn't think he'd get it because the lack of severity regarding the illness, but the distance made sense for him.  Point is that he had a stronger case than Koby would have, or Joey does have.

In cases like that the NCAA doesn't just take the word of the student-athlete and school, they require actual medical documentation from doctors (statements, medical diagnosis) before they would approve a waiver based on having to move closer to home. They would have to document that it was resulting in long term issues and care was needed.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Its DJOver on September 25, 2019, 12:42:00 PM
In cases like that the NCAA doesn't just take the word of the student-athlete and school, they require actual medical documentation from doctors (statements, medical diagnosis) before they would approve a waiver based on having to move closer to home. They would have to document that it was resulting in long term issues and care was needed.

I'm sure the NCAA did their due diligence, but just by nature it's a tricky one.  A normal illness you can look at raw data/symptoms.  Head injuries are so tricky and effect everyone differently that it is not the case.  Not trying to say that Mustapha's mom pulled a fast one on the NCAA, just that it would be harder to "prove" (or disprove) the severity of the injury.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on September 25, 2019, 01:41:11 PM
Just listened to One Shining Podcast.  Turns out it's not just Marquette fans making fun of Joey Hauser for filing for a waiver to become immediately eligible.  Mark Titus brought it up and basically mocked him for even applying for the waiver as he has no grounds to stand on and then Sam Vecenie said, "I don't know why he'd be eligible other than emotional distress by Markus Howard chucking."  So unless Titus and Vecenie are Marquette fans it looks like it's viewed similarly beyond the Marquette fanbase as it is on Scoop.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on September 25, 2019, 01:45:08 PM
It doesn't matter much to me if he gets it or not, but if he ends up having graduated early so he could rehab his injury and that costs him a year of eligibility, it sucks. I get why that would be the case, but unfortunate for the kid if it is.

Joey knew he was blowing a year of eligibility when he came in the winter of 2018.  He thought he'd be cashing an NBA check by now, or the very least after this coming season.  He wasn't worried about 4 years of eligibility.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: brewcity77 on September 25, 2019, 01:50:09 PM
Joey knew he was blowing a year of eligibility when he came in the winter of 2018.  He thought he'd be cashing an NBA check by now, or the very least after this coming season.  He wasn't worried about 4 years of eligibility.

I don't disagree, but sometimes people make mistakes when they are 17-18 years old without realizing what the consequences will be. If he ends up wanting to play 4 years and that "straight to the NBA" plan doesn't work out, I think he should be able to. I could be in the minority on that, and that's fine.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: willie warrior on September 25, 2019, 02:10:33 PM
Character revealed is a Buzz quote.  Also, you’re the first one to bring up Wojo in this thread.
So what is your point? Joey/Sam will be forever linked to Wojo, who blew the whole fiasco, because of his inability to handle the situation.....and now wait for it....here come the Wojo worshippers...to his defense...in 3..2..1
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on September 25, 2019, 02:15:31 PM
I don't disagree, but sometimes people make mistakes when they are 17-18 years old without realizing what the consequences will be. If he ends up wanting to play 4 years and that "straight to the NBA" plan doesn't work out, I think he should be able to. I could be in the minority on that, and that's fine.

Meh.  I thought it was a mistake when it happened, and I don't feel any differently now.  He may get a waiver when that time comes, and I think he'd have a decent case to make to the NCAA.  He was never going to play in what ended up being his "freshman" year.  But Joey went into it with his eyes wide open.  To insinuate that he didn't know what the consequences of that would be if/when his game didn't translate to high major basketball as well as he hoped, is well....ridiculous.  I am not directing that comment at you, specifically, Brew. IMO, if he doesn't get the waiver, that is fully on him and his family for making a dumb decision. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: #UnleashJayce on September 25, 2019, 02:29:03 PM
Could be not just retroactively apply for a medical redshirt and have this entire point be moot?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lazar's Headband on September 25, 2019, 02:48:09 PM
Could be not just retroactively apply for a medical redshirt and have this entire point be moot?

No, because he would still need a second injury season to get a 6th year.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 25, 2019, 02:50:01 PM
Could be not just retroactively apply for a medical redshirt and have this entire point be moot?


You can't apply for a "medical redshirt" until you complete your initial eligibility.  And the issue is that he would rather play this season than play an extra season down the line anyway.  But if this isn't successful, undoubtedly he will apply for a medical redshirt unless he turns pro.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on September 25, 2019, 02:51:29 PM
I don't disagree, but sometimes people make mistakes when they are 17-18 years old without realizing what the consequences will be. If he ends up wanting to play 4 years and that "straight to the NBA" plan doesn't work out, I think he should be able to. I could be in the minority on that, and that's fine.

Some of this is true in ordinary circumstances, but Joey's circumstances were not ordinary. This particular 17/18-year-old has two parents who were college athletes and two older siblings were were college athletes at the time he made his decision. He can't present a valid argument that he wasn't fully informed of the consequences, was naive to the long-term ramifications or taken advantage of by an unscrupulous Marquette coaching staff.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 25, 2019, 02:51:54 PM
So what is your point? Joey/Sam will be forever linked to Wojo, who blew the whole fiasco, because of his inability to handle the situation.....and now wait for it....here come the Wojo worshippers...to his defense...in 3..2..1

No one brought up Wojo until you did
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: lawdog77 on September 25, 2019, 02:59:19 PM

You can't apply for a "medical redshirt" until you complete your initial eligibility.  And the issue is that he would rather play this season than play an extra season down the line anyway.  But if this isn't successful, undoubtedly he will apply for a medical redshirt unless he turns pro.
Maybe his argument is that he didn't play the second half of this season, so he should be aqble to only have to sit out a semester
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 25, 2019, 03:17:04 PM
Maybe his argument is that he didn't play the second half of this season, so he should be aqble to only have to sit out a semester

He only played on one side of the floor.  So it's KINDA like playing half a season right?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Marcus92 on September 25, 2019, 03:29:10 PM
I'd caution anyone against judging Joey's motives or character. He hasn't said anything publicly about his or Sam's reasons for transferring. Neither has anybody else who's involved.

Here's all Wojo had to offer:

"If you would have asked me the day after our season ended if they wouldn't be here next year, I would tell you I would be very, very surprised...But being in this business long enough, I guess nothing should surprise you. I wish them nothing but the best. I hope they find what they are looking for."

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2019/05/09/marquette-coach-steve-wojciechowski-talks-hausers-transfers/1150669001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2019/05/09/marquette-coach-steve-wojciechowski-talks-hausers-transfers/1150669001/)

Here are a few excerpts from more extensive comments by Scott Anderson, Joey's former coach at Stevens Point Area Senior High:

"I was surprised. Knowing the boys as long as I have, things have gone very well for them in Marquette and they've enjoyed their time there. But in talking with them recently, I think that they are just looking forward and feel like what they have left in their college career that they want to do it at a different place."

"They never said that there was any dissatisfaction in style of play...They have their reasons and I think people have to be respectful of that."

"This wasn't a spur of the moment kind of thing or an emotional decision. They waited until after the season, and they feel that they're doing the right thing that's best for them."

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2019/04/16/marquette-shocker-hausers-seek-better-fit-former-spash-coach-says/3481168002/ (https://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2019/04/16/marquette-shocker-hausers-seek-better-fit-former-spash-coach-says/3481168002/)

I don't see any need to disparage Joey's talent, either. He clearly needs to work on his defense and decision-making (22.3% TORate per KenPom). But he's a good passer (15.2% Assist Rate) with a pretty good handle for his size and shows an array of advanced moves inside. What really sets him apart is his outside shooting.

Only 3 players in all of Division I who are 6-9 or taller shot better from three-point range than Joey did in 2018-19:

Rapolas Ivanauskas  Colgate  6-10/225  So  43.3%
Bennie Boatwright  USC  6-10/235  Sr  42.9%
Aric Holman  Mississippi State  6-10/225  Sr  42.9%
Joey Hauser  Marquette  6-9/230  Fr  42.5%

That is what makes Joey special. He has truly elite shooting ability for his size -- something Henry Ellenson lacked. Joey has the potential to stretch the court in ways other players can't. Wojo knows it, which is why Joey almost immediately stepped into the starting lineup. Izzo knows it, which is why he recruited Joey so heavily. It's also the main reason Joey will get looks from NBA scouts: He's a big with dangerous range.

As for Wojo's role, I agree that it's his program. And it's hard to understate the impact of losing two starters. But the fact is that every program loses players. Good and bad. There were more than 700 transfers in 2019 -- about 1 in every 6 players across all of Division I men's basketball. Does that mean Jay Wright mishandled the situation when former 5-star recruit Jahvon Quinerly left Villanova?

For whatever reason, Joey wasn't the right fit at Marquette. I'm over it. I'm willing to wish him the best. It's past time to move on; a new season has begun. MU basketball will be just fine without him.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on September 25, 2019, 03:41:19 PM
I'd caution anyone against judging Joey's motives or character. He hasn't said anything publicly about his or Sam's reasons for transferring. Neither has anybody else who's involved.

Here's all Wojo had to offer:

"If you would have asked me the day after our season ended if they wouldn't be here next year, I would tell you I would be very, very surprised...But being in this business long enough, I guess nothing should surprise you. I wish them nothing but the best. I hope they find what they are looking for."

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2019/05/09/marquette-coach-steve-wojciechowski-talks-hausers-transfers/1150669001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2019/05/09/marquette-coach-steve-wojciechowski-talks-hausers-transfers/1150669001/)

Here are a few excerpts from more extensive comments by Scott Anderson, Joey's former coach at Stevens Point Area Senior High:

"I was surprised. Knowing the boys as long as I have, things have gone very well for them in Marquette and they've enjoyed their time there. But in talking with them recently, I think that they are just looking forward and feel like what they have left in their college career that they want to do it at a different place."

"They never said that there was any dissatisfaction in style of play...They have their reasons and I think people have to be respectful of that."

"This wasn't a spur of the moment kind of thing or an emotional decision. They waited until after the season, and they feel that they're doing the right thing that's best for them."

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2019/04/16/marquette-shocker-hausers-seek-better-fit-former-spash-coach-says/3481168002/ (https://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2019/04/16/marquette-shocker-hausers-seek-better-fit-former-spash-coach-says/3481168002/)

I don't see any need to disparage Joey's talent, either. He clearly needs to work on his defense and decision-making (22.3% TORate per KenPom). But he's a good passer (15.2% Assist Rate) with a pretty good handle for his size and shows an array of advanced moves inside. What really sets him apart is his outside shooting.

Only 3 players in all of Division I who are 6-9 or taller shot better from three-point range than Joey did in 2018-19:

Rapolas Ivanauskas  Colgate  6-10/225  So  43.3%
Bennie Boatwright  USC  6-10/235  Sr  42.9%
Aric Holman  Mississippi State  6-10/225  Sr  42.9%
Joey Hauser  Marquette  6-9/230  Fr  42.5%

That is what makes Joey special. He has truly elite shooting ability for his size -- something Henry Ellenson lacked. Joey has the potential to stretch the court in ways other players can't. Wojo knows it, which is why Joey almost immediately stepped into the starting lineup. Izzo knows it, which is why he recruited Joey so heavily. It's also the main reason Joey will get looks from NBA scouts: He's a big with dangerous range.

As for Wojo's role, I agree that it's his program. And it's hard to understate the impact of losing two starters. But the fact is that every program loses players. Good and bad. There were more than 700 transfers in 2019 -- about 1 in every 6 players across all of Division I men's basketball. Does that mean Jay Wright mishandled the situation when former 5-star recruit Jahvon Quinerly left Villanova?

For whatever reason, Joey wasn't the right fit at Marquette. I'm over it. I'm willing to wish him the best. It's past time to move on; a new season has begun. MU basketball will be just fine without him.

Outstanding post, M92.

The thing that I (and a few other Scoopers, if I've read them right) regret is that Sam was kind of caught in "friendly fire" in all of this. Had Joey selected Michigan State from the get-go, Sam almost certainly would be finishing his career at Marquette.

Of course, then the Wojo-haters would have ripped him for failing to sign Sam's brother, but that's a whole 'nother deal.

Maybe his argument is that he didn't play the second half of this season, so he should be aqble to only have to sit out a semester

Made me laugh out loud, though the teal was unnecessary!

Some would call this an "attack" on a "kid," but it's just a joke, one that hurts nobody.

I don't disagree, but sometimes people make mistakes when they are 17-18 years old without realizing what the consequences will be. If he ends up wanting to play 4 years and that "straight to the NBA" plan doesn't work out, I think he should be able to. I could be in the minority on that, and that's fine.

It wouldn't bother me in the least if he gets an extra season at MSU. It will have zero affect to me or Marquette, so why would I care? In general, I'm on the side of the athlete-student.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 25, 2019, 03:46:13 PM
I'd caution anyone against judging Joey's motives or character. He hasn't said anything publicly about his or Sam's reasons for transferring. Neither has anybody else who's involved.

Here's all Wojo had to offer:

"If you would have asked me the day after our season ended if they wouldn't be here next year, I would tell you I would be very, very surprised...But being in this business long enough, I guess nothing should surprise you. I wish them nothing but the best. I hope they find what they are looking for."

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2019/05/09/marquette-coach-steve-wojciechowski-talks-hausers-transfers/1150669001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2019/05/09/marquette-coach-steve-wojciechowski-talks-hausers-transfers/1150669001/)

Here are a few excerpts from more extensive comments by Scott Anderson, Joey's former coach at Stevens Point Area Senior High:

"I was surprised. Knowing the boys as long as I have, things have gone very well for them in Marquette and they've enjoyed their time there. But in talking with them recently, I think that they are just looking forward and feel like what they have left in their college career that they want to do it at a different place."

"They never said that there was any dissatisfaction in style of play...They have their reasons and I think people have to be respectful of that."

"This wasn't a spur of the moment kind of thing or an emotional decision. They waited until after the season, and they feel that they're doing the right thing that's best for them."

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2019/04/16/marquette-shocker-hausers-seek-better-fit-former-spash-coach-says/3481168002/ (https://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2019/04/16/marquette-shocker-hausers-seek-better-fit-former-spash-coach-says/3481168002/)

I don't see any need to disparage Joey's talent, either. He clearly needs to work on his defense and decision-making (22.3% TORate per KenPom). But he's a good passer (15.2% Assist Rate) with a pretty good handle for his size and shows an array of advanced moves inside. What really sets him apart is his outside shooting.

Only 3 players in all of Division I who are 6-9 or taller shot better from three-point range than Joey did in 2018-19:

Rapolas Ivanauskas  Colgate  6-10/225  So  43.3%
Bennie Boatwright  USC  6-10/235  Sr  42.9%
Aric Holman  Mississippi State  6-10/225  Sr  42.9%
Joey Hauser  Marquette  6-9/230  Fr  42.5%

That is what makes Joey special. He has truly elite shooting ability for his size -- something Henry Ellenson lacked. Joey has the potential to stretch the court in ways other players can't. Wojo knows it, which is why Joey almost immediately stepped into the starting lineup. Izzo knows it, which is why he recruited Joey so heavily. It's also the main reason Joey will get looks from NBA scouts: He's a big with dangerous range.

As for Wojo's role, I agree that it's his program. And it's hard to understate the impact of losing two starters. But the fact is that every program loses players. Good and bad. There were more than 700 transfers in 2019 -- about 1 in every 6 players across all of Division I men's basketball. Does that mean Jay Wright mishandled the situation when former 5-star recruit Jahvon Quinerly left Villanova?

For whatever reason, Joey wasn't the right fit at Marquette. I'm over it. I'm willing to wish him the best. It's past time to move on; a new season has begun. MU basketball will be just fine without him.

I will happily watch Joey light up the Badgers.  Hope the folks wear his Spartans jersey with one saying “Silent”, the other saying “Verbal” to the Trohl Center
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Tha Hound on September 25, 2019, 04:00:57 PM
nelsonhaha.gif
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: brewcity77 on September 25, 2019, 04:01:51 PM
Meh.  I thought it was a mistake when it happened, and I don't feel any differently now.  He may get a waiver when that time comes, and I think he'd have a decent case to make to the NCAA.  He was never going to play in what ended up being his "freshman" year.  But Joey went into it with his eyes wide open.  To insinuate that he didn't know what the consequences of that would be if/when his game didn't translate to high major basketball as well as he hoped, is well....ridiculous.  I am not directing that comment at you, specifically, Brew. IMO, if he doesn't get the waiver, that is fully on him and his family for making a dumb decision.

Some of this is true in ordinary circumstances, but Joey's circumstances were not ordinary. This particular 17/18-year-old has two parents who were college athletes and two older siblings were were college athletes at the time he made his decision. He can't present a valid argument that he wasn't fully informed of the consequences, was naive to the long-term ramifications or taken advantage of by an unscrupulous Marquette coaching staff.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. I just think this is a case where a kid made a decision that didn't work out, the benefit he received for his "redshirt" year was likely marginal compared to most students, and there's no harm in him getting a sixth year. I think it would be harsh to refuse that if he ends up trying to play out his eligibility.

That said...no reason whatsoever he should be allowed to play next year based on everything we know.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Nukem2 on September 25, 2019, 04:19:07 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. I just think this is a case where a kid made a decision that didn't work out, the benefit he received for his "redshirt" year was likely marginal compared to most students, and there's no harm in him getting a sixth year. I think it would be harsh to refuse that if he ends up trying to play out his eligibility.

That said...no reason whatsoever he should be allowed to play next year based on everything we know.
I would agree with these takes.  Suspect he would have a strong case for a sixth year, though I don’t  think he would want to do that unless he has further injuries or whatever else might happen in the meantime.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2019, 04:21:03 PM
Could be not just retroactively apply for a medical redshirt and have this entire point be moot?

you can only get a "medical redshirt" if you played and were injured within the NCAA's timeline requirements.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2019, 04:23:35 PM

You can't apply for a "medical redshirt" until you complete your initial eligibility.  And the issue is that he would rather play this season than play an extra season down the line anyway.  But if this isn't successful, undoubtedly he will apply for a medical redshirt unless he turns pro.

that's an extension of eligibility waiver. You have to have had two years of denied participation due circumstances outside of your control.  That means two season-ending injuries, personal hardship or, during your freshman year, having sat out due to the coach's decision.  Right now Joey does not qualify.

This is Michigan State just throwing something against the wall and seeing if it sticks.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on September 25, 2019, 04:26:04 PM
I'd caution anyone against judging Joey's motives or character. He hasn't said anything publicly about his or Sam's reasons for transferring. Neither has anybody else who's involved.

Here's all Wojo had to offer:

"If you would have asked me the day after our season ended if they wouldn't be here next year, I would tell you I would be very, very surprised...But being in this business long enough, I guess nothing should surprise you. I wish them nothing but the best. I hope they find what they are looking for."

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2019/05/09/marquette-coach-steve-wojciechowski-talks-hausers-transfers/1150669001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2019/05/09/marquette-coach-steve-wojciechowski-talks-hausers-transfers/1150669001/)

Here are a few excerpts from more extensive comments by Scott Anderson, Joey's former coach at Stevens Point Area Senior High:

"I was surprised. Knowing the boys as long as I have, things have gone very well for them in Marquette and they've enjoyed their time there. But in talking with them recently, I think that they are just looking forward and feel like what they have left in their college career that they want to do it at a different place."

"They never said that there was any dissatisfaction in style of play...They have their reasons and I think people have to be respectful of that."

"This wasn't a spur of the moment kind of thing or an emotional decision. They waited until after the season, and they feel that they're doing the right thing that's best for them."

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2019/04/16/marquette-shocker-hausers-seek-better-fit-former-spash-coach-says/3481168002/ (https://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2019/04/16/marquette-shocker-hausers-seek-better-fit-former-spash-coach-says/3481168002/)

I don't see any need to disparage Joey's talent, either. He clearly needs to work on his defense and decision-making (22.3% TORate per KenPom). But he's a good passer (15.2% Assist Rate) with a pretty good handle for his size and shows an array of advanced moves inside. What really sets him apart is his outside shooting.

Only 3 players in all of Division I who are 6-9 or taller shot better from three-point range than Joey did in 2018-19:

Rapolas Ivanauskas  Colgate  6-10/225  So  43.3%
Bennie Boatwright  USC  6-10/235  Sr  42.9%
Aric Holman  Mississippi State  6-10/225  Sr  42.9%
Joey Hauser  Marquette  6-9/230  Fr  42.5%

That is what makes Joey special. He has truly elite shooting ability for his size -- something Henry Ellenson lacked. Joey has the potential to stretch the court in ways other players can't. Wojo knows it, which is why Joey almost immediately stepped into the starting lineup. Izzo knows it, which is why he recruited Joey so heavily. It's also the main reason Joey will get looks from NBA scouts: He's a big with dangerous range.

As for Wojo's role, I agree that it's his program. And it's hard to understate the impact of losing two starters. But the fact is that every program loses players. Good and bad. There were more than 700 transfers in 2019 -- about 1 in every 6 players across all of Division I men's basketball. Does that mean Jay Wright mishandled the situation when former 5-star recruit Jahvon Quinerly left Villanova?

For whatever reason, Joey wasn't the right fit at Marquette. I'm over it. I'm willing to wish him the best. It's past time to move on; a new season has begun. MU basketball will be just fine without him.

Fvck the Hausers!!
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: StillAWarrior on September 25, 2019, 04:27:03 PM
that's an extension of eligibility waiver. You have to have had two years of denied participation due circumstances outside of your control.  That means two season-ending injuries, personal hardship or, during your freshman year, having sat out due to the coach's decision.  Right now Joey does not qualify.

This is Michigan State just throwing something against the wall and seeing if it sticks.

Can he argue that he was "denied participation" in that first year because of an injury?  Does it matter that he was already injured when he came?  If he had come to Marquette without the injury and was participating in practices that spring (if that's even allowed...I have no idea), would it change anything if he was injured after arriving on campus?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Marcus92 on September 25, 2019, 04:31:44 PM
The other thing that doesn't quite sit right with me is the idea that Joey "quit" his team. Does that mean everyone who decides to transfer -- which would include Marquette players such as Robert Jackson, Jamil Wilson, Andrew Rowsey, Koby McEwen, et al -- "quit" on their former teammates?

As stated before, more than 700 players in Division I transferred this year. They exercised their right to decide what's best for them and seek out better opportunities. I may not like it when talented players leave the MU program. But it's not my choice. It's a personal decision.

Using the word "quit" seems like an unfair and loaded connotation -- especially when none of Joey's coaches or teammates have said anything of the sort.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on September 25, 2019, 04:50:36 PM
The other thing that doesn't quite sit right with me is the idea that Joey "quit" his team. Does that mean everyone who decides to transfer -- which would include Marquette players such as Robert Jackson, Jamil Wilson, Andrew Rowsey, Koby McEwen, et al -- "quit" on their former teammates?

Fans of Oregon, UNC-Ashville and Utah State would probably say yes. Mississippi State, maybe not. RJax was basically shown the door.
Ff course fans are going to be pissy about a kid who transfers.
Who cares? None of it matters. Joey is doing just fine and doesn't need people protecting him from the 'q' word.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jay Bee on September 25, 2019, 06:25:23 PM

You can't apply for a "medical redshirt" until you complete your initial eligibility.  And the issue is that he would rather play this season than play an extra season down the line anyway.  But if this isn't successful, undoubtedly he will apply for a medical redshirt unless he turns pro.

#FakeNews
#Lies

What people call a 'medical redshirt' is a medical hardship waiver. You can apply for it after the season in which you had the incapacitating injury.

That's not the matter at hand for Joey.

What he MAY try to do in a few years (hard to imagine this scenario playing out, but...) is apply for a 5-Year Rule Waiver. The criteria require that he missed two or more years due to circumstances outside of his control. The problem is he doesn't fit the criteria because he's missing 2019-20 because of his own decision to transfer. NONETHELESS, the NCAA has occasionally said, 'eff our bylaws, we're going to give a waiver of the waiver... anything goes!'... but that's down the line.

What they would be trying to do now is make some sort of plea that he *had* to leave MU and therefore shouldn't have to sit out this coming year.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MUHoopsFan2 on September 26, 2019, 12:28:29 AM
The other thing that doesn't quite sit right with me is the idea that Joey "quit" his team. Does that mean everyone who decides to transfer -- which would include Marquette players such as Robert Jackson, Jamil Wilson, Andrew Rowsey, Koby McEwen, et al -- "quit" on their former teammates?

As stated before, more than 700 players in Division I transferred this year. They exercised their right to decide what's best for them and seek out better opportunities. I may not like it when talented players leave the MU program. But it's not my choice. It's a personal decision.

Using the word "quit" seems like an unfair and loaded connotation -- especially when none of Joey's coaches or teammates have said anything of the sort.
There was a 'quit' factor' on the choice of 'the team' or choosing 'the family' and or future fame over the team success. Nothing wrong with that I guess. But it wasn't grades, and it wasn't that the coaches as far as i know. Hell, both of the brothers played major roles on the team. That would be my biggest disappointment is if this came down to them not liking how Wojo handled the team. . . over them.

Wojo HAS TO WIN. MAN! Markus is a winner and a shot maker too and will be one of the all time leading scorers in Marquette, Big East and CBB history. You can't expect Wojo to tell him to pass the ball! Come on now...so if that was the reason, that was not good.   
 


On the outside looking in, it was a big mistake if you consider the fast track. But it was there's to make. To me, this was not a grass is greener on the other side thing.

Neither will get any better or worse going somewhere else or do any better than they could have it they stayed right here at MU when you look at the team they could have had returning if they stayed. 

They were in an ideal situation where they were winning, both were starters, playing with your younger brother in front of your parents, and being major cogs in the team, and at worse #2 or #3 option 'go to' guys, in their hometown, just a game or two away from a Championship the next few years with the Pro prospects right on the horizon.

What more could you ask for? Markus Howard to shoot less and pass more so you can? Well, that is fine and good but then then you lose more games and no one cares who you are. Both great young men and I wish them well and will always be a fan no matter where and when they land on their future teams.

Both can play and went as a package deal. But now they are both split up and have to wait another year.   
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Marcus92 on September 26, 2019, 10:42:42 AM
Odartey Blankson's transfer following the 2001-02 season is the only one I can think of that's even close to the Hauser's decision.

Odartey was part of a strong recruiting class of 2000 -- which also included Dwyane Wade, Scott Merritt and Terry Sanders. Marquette struggled to a 15-14 (9-7) record that year in Tom Crean's second season as head coach. Blankson was one of the highlights. He started 28 games as a freshman, averaging 6.1 ppg and 5.5 rpg and earning a reputation as a tough, versatile defender.

The next year, Wade emerged as a star and the team vaulted to 26-7 (13-3). Blankson started 27 games and averaged 8.4 ppg (third best on the team) and 6.2 rpg. While the team would lose senior starters Cordell Henry and Oluoma Nnamaka, the returning core of Wade, Blankson, Merritt, Sanders, Travis Diener and Todd Townsend looked ready to take the next step.

Then Blankson announced his decision to transfer. Crean's press release stated that "he is looking for a more prominent role." Blankson added, "I've enjoyed my time at Marquette and feel good about the contributions that I've made."

Marquette advanced to the Final Four the next season. After sitting out that year, Blankson became the leading scorer and rebounder for the UNLV Rebels -- which didn't even make the postseason in either of his seasons there. He went on to a successful pro career in Europe.

As a fan, I still wonder how much better that Final Four team might have been with Blankson on the roster. I can't imagine what Odartey was thinking. But whether or not I understand or agree with it is completely beside the point; it was his decision to make, and he believed it was the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on September 26, 2019, 11:17:36 AM
Odartey Blankson's transfer following the 2001-02 season is the only one I can think of that's even close to the Hauser's decision.

Dameon Mason transferred after playing 30 mpg as a sophomore.
Perhaps he feared losing playing time to the three amigos coming in the following year.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: tower912 on September 26, 2019, 11:29:11 AM
Wojo went out and got Jayce, and Symir reclassified.      The Hausers were great shooters and Sam was a leader.    I don't know who would argue differently.     But the 19-20 team has the potential to overcome their departures.     Which is more than most thought in April when the news broke.   Wojo deserves credit for that.   
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 26, 2019, 11:29:52 AM
Can he argue that he was "denied participation" in that first year because of an injury?  Does it matter that he was already injured when he came?  If he had come to Marquette without the injury and was participating in practices that spring (if that's even allowed...I have no idea), would it change anything if he was injured after arriving on campus?

Yes, but that wouldn't get him immediate eligibility. It would only help him get a 6th year if he misses another year due to injury.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: StillAWarrior on September 26, 2019, 11:31:22 AM
Yes, but that wouldn't get him immediate eligibility. It would only help him get a 6th year if he misses another year due to injury.

Right.  That's what I was referring to.  Like pretty much everyone else, I don't see anything here that would give him immediate eligibility.  I suspect that's just an MSU thing.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 26, 2019, 11:35:52 AM
Odartey Blankson's transfer following the 2001-02 season is the only one I can think of that's even close to the Hauser's decision.

Odartey was part of a strong recruiting class of 2000 -- which also included Dwyane Wade, Scott Merritt and Terry Sanders. Marquette struggled to a 15-14 (9-7) record that year in Tom Crean's second season as head coach. Blankson was one of the highlights. He started 28 games as a freshman, averaging 6.1 ppg and 5.5 rpg and earning a reputation as a tough, versatile defender.

The next year, Wade emerged as a star and the team vaulted to 26-7 (13-3). Blankson started 27 games and averaged 8.4 ppg (third best on the team) and 6.2 rpg. While the team would lose senior starters Cordell Henry and Oluoma Nnamaka, the returning core of Wade, Blankson, Merritt, Sanders, Travis Diener and Todd Townsend looked ready to take the next step.

Then Blankson announced his decision to transfer. Crean's press release stated that "he is looking for a more prominent role." Blankson added, "I've enjoyed my time at Marquette and feel good about the contributions that I've made."

Marquette advanced to the Final Four the next season. After sitting out that year, Blankson became the leading scorer and rebounder for the UNLV Rebels -- which didn't even make the postseason in either of his seasons there. He went on to a successful pro career in Europe.

As a fan, I still wonder how much better that Final Four team might have been with Blankson on the roster. I can't imagine what Odartey was thinking. But whether or not I understand or agree with it is completely beside the point; it was his decision to make, and he believed it was the right thing to do.

ODB got jealous of Wade (he was the higher rated player when they signed, before Wade blew up as a senior) and his brother, who played at LUC, got in his ear and convinced him he was being frozen out and he should leave. ODB once told a UNLV recruit during an OV that his biggest regret was leaving MU.

MU *may* have been even better in 02-03 with ODB on the roster but maybe not. Team chemistry was huge on that team. Todd Townsend was an excellent piece at the three to complement the starters.

As for Mason, he thought he was better than he really was, alienated his teammates and staff and checked out before the end of the season and decided to leave to show he could be the star. He thought he was going to be the next Wade and when he wasn't he blamed his MU teammates and coaches.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Marcus92 on September 26, 2019, 11:43:47 AM
Dameon Mason transferred after playing 30 mpg as a sophomore. Perhaps he feared losing playing time to the three amigos coming in the following year.

There are a couple reasons why Odartey comes to mind for me:

• Like Sam and Joey playing alongside Markus, Odartey played a secondary (though vital) role on a team with a clear superstar.

• Like this year's team (which finished 24-10, 2nd in the Big East behind conference powerhouse Villanova) Marquette was coming off its best season in years (26-7 in 2001-02, 2nd in CUSA behind conference powerhouse Cincinnati), returned most of the roster and was projected to be even better the next year.

Dameon Mason played on two teams that missed the NCAA tournament -- and wasn't nearly as good of a player as either Sam or Joey, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Marcus92 on September 26, 2019, 12:02:48 PM
Also, like this year's Marquette team, the 2001-02 squad lost as a strong favorite in the first round of the NCAA tournament, falling to 12 seed Tulsa.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 26, 2019, 12:07:43 PM
Also, like this year's Marquette team, the 2001-02 squad lost as a strong favorite in the first round of the NCAA tournament, falling to 12 seed Tulsa.

That’s when I knew we needed to fire Crean and hire Bruce Weber
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2019, 01:20:21 PM

MU *may* have been even better in 02-03 with ODB on the roster but maybe not. Team chemistry was huge on that team. Todd Townsend was an excellent piece at the three to complement the starters.


ODB was a really good player. Todd was a really good guy. They were not remotely close as players.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 26, 2019, 01:25:26 PM
ODB was a really good player. Todd was a really good guy. They were not remotely close as players.


I don't think that's what he is saying.  He is saying that Townsend knew his role while ODB yearned for a larger one.  This may have caused chemistry problems that could have derailed the team that eventually got to the Final Four.  He even hedged his bets.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on September 26, 2019, 01:55:14 PM
ODB was a really good player. Todd was a really good guy. They were not remotely close as players.

Lenny, sometimes the sum is equal to more than the parts. Townsend that year was kind of like what Lockett became in 2012-13. Unless you are a blueblood that regularly signs a half-dozen 5-stars and high-4-stars, you need "glue" guys like that. Townsend was a nice complementary player to a lineup that included Wade, Diener, Jackson and Merritt, with Novak off the bench. He set screens, played D, grabbed rebounds, etc.

There is absolutely no doubt that ODB was a far better player. But maybe he wouldn't have been a better fit for that 2002-03 team because, apparently, he wanted the ball more and the chemistry would have been all messed up.

We'll never know, of course, but I'm satisfied with how that season turned out sans ODB.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2019, 06:00:27 PM

I don't think that's what he is saying.  He is saying that Townsend knew his role while ODB yearned for a larger one.  This may have caused chemistry problems that could have derailed the team that eventually got to the Final Four.  He even hedged his bets.

Meh. Townsend was OK in 2002-3 for one reason - nobody guarded him. Once DWade left he didn't have that luxury. Results? 22.6% from 3 in 03-04, 23.0% in 04-05, very bad efg% both years. 4ppg, 2 rpg, 1 apg career averages - if he was a baseball player he'd have a negative WAR for his career. Loved his story, loved the guy - but he was bad at basketball. ODB wasn't a problem guy on the court the 2 years he was here. IIRC, he going to be the captain his junior year before he transferred.

ODB was a better player by a huge margin. He would have made the 2002-3 team much better.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 26, 2019, 06:26:10 PM
Meh. Townsend was OK in 2002-3 for one reason - nobody guarded him. Once DWade left he didn't have that luxury. Results? 22.6% from 3 in 03-04, 23.0% in 04-05, very bad efg% both years. 4ppg, 2 rpg, 1 apg career averages - if he was a baseball player he'd have a negative WAR for his career. Loved his story, loved the guy - but he was bad at basketball. ODB wasn't a problem guy on the court the 2 years he was here. IIRC, he going to be the captain his junior year before he transferred.

ODB was a better player by a huge margin. He would have made the 2002-3 team much better.

“Much better” than a Final Four team?

Doubtful.

Regardless no one is debating that ODB wasn’t a better player. So simply reciting stats is useless.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jay Bee on September 26, 2019, 06:59:38 PM
“Much better” than a Final Four team?


#crapshoot
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2019, 07:09:02 PM
“Much better” than a Final Four team?

Doubtful.

Regardless no one is debating that ODB wasn’t a better player. So simply reciting stats is useless.

Much better.

Stats aren't useless.

Dumb people? Maybe.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 26, 2019, 07:11:16 PM
Much better.

Stats aren't useless.

Dumb people? Maybe.


I didn’t say stats are useless. I said stats are useless for this debate because no one doubts that he is better. The question is better fit.

Dumb people...well, person...indeed.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2019, 07:14:53 PM


Dumb people...well, person...indeed.

Good catch...you are but one person.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 26, 2019, 07:20:18 PM
Good catch...you are but one person.

Oooo. A fifth grade level insult? Ignoring my post in the process?

Flying the white flag and begging for mercy I see.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2019, 07:27:38 PM
Oooo. A fifth grade level insult? Ignoring my post in the process?




It's what a 2nd grade insult deserves.

And what an ignorant post deserves.

Deal with it.

Pretty good imitation of a Sultan post, a'ina?

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 26, 2019, 07:29:20 PM

It's what a 2nd grade insult deserves.

And what an ignorant post deserves.

Deal with it.

Pretty good imitation of a Sultan post, a'ina?



First you obsess over me and now you imitate my posts?  I’m flattered!!
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2019, 07:50:07 PM
First you obsess over me and now you imitate my posts?  I’m flattered!!

The last thing I am is obsessed with you. When called me a mope who yells "get off of my lawn" at people (obsess much?) I laughed at you and poked a little fun at myself (something you're incapable of).

So don't flatter yourself that I think of you as anything but a minor annoyance. Plenty of people here actively and profoundly can't stand you but you're not that important to me.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 26, 2019, 07:59:57 PM
The last thing I am is obsessed with you. When called me a mope who yells "get off of my lawn" at people (obsess much?) I laughed at you and poked a little fun at myself (something you're incapable of).

So don't flatter yourself that I think of you as anything but a minor annoyance. Plenty of people here actively and profoundly can't stand you but you're not that important to me.

Bwahahaha!!  Suuuureeee...
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 26, 2019, 09:18:58 PM
Also, like this year's Marquette team, the 2001-02 squad lost as a strong favorite in the first round of the NCAA tournament, falling to 12 seed Tulsa.

5 seeds aren’t typically strong favorites over 12’s.  Favorites, yes, but not strong favorites.  MU was a 4.5 point favorite.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Marcus92 on September 26, 2019, 10:49:11 PM
The point was that Marquette got upset as a 5 seed in both the 2002 and 2019 NCAA tournaments.

Historically, 5 seeds win more than 65% of their first-round NCAA games. "Strong" is a subjective term, but I get what you're saying. It's not like MU was favored by double digits.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 26, 2019, 11:30:45 PM
The point was that Marquette got upset as a 5 seed in both the 2002 and 2019 NCAA tournaments.

Historically, 5 seeds win more than 65% of their first-round NCAA games. "Strong" is a subjective term, but I get what you're saying. It's not like MU was favored by double digits.

So, crapshoots = choke jobs.  I mean statistically.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on September 27, 2019, 07:50:54 PM
Let's not waste any more time talking about "quitters."  Marquette is a better team without them.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 27, 2019, 09:11:00 PM
The point was that Marquette got upset as a 5 seed in both the 2002 and 2019 NCAA tournaments.

Historically, 5 seeds win more than 65% of their first-round NCAA games. "Strong" is a subjective term, but I get what you're saying. It's not like MU was favored by double digits.

I think that is fair.  Personally I hate the 5 vs 12 game because it can mean you are taking on a strong mid major, or a big school that likely has a few very good wins and some bad losses.  I would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 28, 2019, 08:06:12 AM
I think that is fair.  Personally I hate the 5 vs 12 game because it can mean you are taking on a strong mid major, or a big school that likely has a few very good wins and some bad losses.  I would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed.

Hello Tom, Jean Felix is on line 1
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on September 28, 2019, 08:55:29 AM
During the postseasons of our best two runs since Al retired, we came darn close to losing both times as 3-seeds.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 28, 2019, 09:41:36 PM
I think that is fair.  Personally I hate the 5 vs 12 game because it can mean you are taking on a strong mid major, or a big school that likely has a few very good wins and some bad losses.  I would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed.

Historical records say your preference is incorrect (if advancing to round 2, 3 or beyond the goal).
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 28, 2019, 09:53:37 PM
Historical records say your preference is incorrect (if advancing to round 2, 3 or beyond the goal).

How so?

A 5 seed has NEVER won the entire tournament.  A 6 seed has.  A 6 seed historically has made the Elite 8 almost 2x better than a 5 seed.  You are correct for the second and third rounds, but “beyond the goal”.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 28, 2019, 10:06:13 PM
How so?

A 5 seed has NEVER won the entire tournament.  A 6 seed has.  A 6 seed historically has made the Elite 8 almost 2x better than a 5 seed.  You are correct for the second and third rounds, but “beyond the goal”.

6th seed?? You said you'd rather be a 7 seed than a 5. You never mentioned 6.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Retire0 on September 28, 2019, 10:08:12 PM
6th seed?? You said you'd rather be a 7 seed than a 5. You never mentioned 6.



Yeah, but averages to his answer. So he’s right, duh.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 28, 2019, 10:38:26 PM
6th seed?? You said you'd rather be a 7 seed than a 5. You never mentioned 6.

LOL. You are correct.  My bad for pulling up 6 seed data, but 7 seed still proves to be true.  7 seeds have better winning % historically to get to the Elite 8 then 5 seeds.  A 7 seed has won the ncaa tournament, a 5 seed hasn’t.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 28, 2019, 10:40:46 PM
Yeah, but averages to his answer. So he’s right, duh.

I am right, both 6 seeds and 7 seeds have gone further than 5 seeds, and that was his argument. 


A 5 has never won it.  A 6 and a 7 has.  6/7 have a better winning percentage in the championship, in the Final Four, and the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 28, 2019, 11:26:43 PM
I am right, both 6 seeds and 7 seeds have gone further than 5 seeds, and that was his argument. 


A 5 has never won it.  A 6 and a 7 has.  6/7 have a better winning percentage in the championship, in the Final Four, and the Sweet 16.

You're misstating my argument. Your argument was that you would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed in the tournament. I asked why you would prefer a seed the has fared statistically worse. And by any fair measure 7s have fared worse. 5 seeds have 5 more trips to the 2nd round, 19 more trips to the S16, 3 more trips to the FF and 3 more trips to the championship game than the 7 seeds. 5 seeds have won 26 more tournament games. 7 seeds have 2 more Elite 8s and 1 more championship.

5 seed vs 7 seed wins in the NCAA tournament:

Round 1: 5s 89   7s 84
Round 2: 5s 46   7s 27
Round 3: 5s  8    7s 10
Round 4: 5s  6    7s  3
Round 5: 5s  3    7s  1
Round 6: 5s  0    7s  1

Total NCAA wins: 5s 152  7s 126
Sweet 16s:          5s  46   7s  27
Elite 8s:              5s   8   7s  10
Final 4s:              5s   6   7s    3
Final Game:         5s   3   7s    1
Championships:    5s   0   7s    1

If you honestly think these numbers indicate it's an advantage to being a 7 seed over a 5 seed (your original premise)....well, they just don't and you're easily smart enough to know it.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 28, 2019, 11:37:33 PM
You're misstating my argument. Your argument was that you would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed in the tournament. I asked why you would prefer a seed the has fared statistically worse. And by any fair measure 7s have fared worse. 5 seeds have 5 more trips to the 2nd round, 19 more trips to the S16, 3 more trips to the FF and 3 more trips to the championship game than the 7 seeds. 5 seeds have won 26 more tournament games. 7 seeds have 2 more Elite 8s and 1 more championship.

5 seed vs 7 seed wins in the NCAA tournament:

Round 1: 5s 89   7s 84
Round 2: 5s 46   7s 27
Round 3: 5s  8    7s 10
Round 4: 5s  6    7s  3
Round 5: 5s  3    7s  1
Round 6: 5s  0    7s  1

Total NCAA wins: 5s 152  7s 126
Sweet 16s:          5s  46   7s  27
Elite 8s:              5s   8   7s  10
Final 4s:              5s   6   7s    3
Final Game:         5s   3   7s    1
Championships:    5s   0   7s    1

If you honestly think these numbers indicate it's an advantage to being a 7 seed over a 5 seed (your original premise)....well, they just don't and you're easily smart enough to know it.

If that was your intent, ok.  I read “Historical records say your preference is incorrect (if advancing to round 2, 3 or beyond the goal).” to mean advancing 2nd 3rd round and beyond.  The truth is, no 5 seed has ever gone to the beyond portion, while a 6 and 7 seed both have.

Peace

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on September 29, 2019, 09:54:41 AM
So chicos says it a crapshoot 1000x and then starts using empirical and historical evidence to predict results?

What an idiot!
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jay Bee on September 29, 2019, 11:05:36 AM
So chicos says it a crapshoot 1000x and then starts using empirical and historical evidence to predict results?

lol, this is a fair point
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 29, 2019, 11:35:58 AM
lol, this is a fair point

Not really.  Both are consistent.  It is still a crapshoot.  A crapshoot isn’t a zero sum game.  I’d rather be a 1 seed than 16 seed, but even a 16 seed can lose.  I would rather be a 3 seed than a 7 seed, but history has shown plenty of 3 seeds that lost when they “should not” have.

People wrongly assert a crapshoot is a totally unpredictable outcome, that is absolutely not the case.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 29, 2019, 12:48:04 PM
If that was your intent, ok.  I read “Historical records say your preference is incorrect (if advancing to round 2, 3 or beyond the goal).” to mean advancing 2nd 3rd round and beyond.  The truth is, no 5 seed has ever gone to the beyond portion, while a 6 and 7 seed both have.

Peace

5 seeds have made the round of 32 5 more times than 7s. 5 seeds have made the Sweet 16 an astounding 19 more times than 7s. 7s have made the Elite 8 2 times more than 5s, 5s have made the FF 3 times more than 7s and the championship game 2 times more. 7s do have one championship to none for 5s. 7th seeded UCONN beat 8th seeded UK in 2014. 5 seeds have a winning percentage of .528, 7 have a winning percentage of .482. 5s have won 26 more games total.

Respectfully, if you put this information into any blender - even one designed and manufactured by Chico, inc. - it adds up that being a 5 is an advantage to being a 7. Not the other way around as you've opined. Why not just admit the obvious?

Peace.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: lawdog77 on September 29, 2019, 12:53:30 PM
Not really.  Both are consistent.  It is still a crapshoot.  A crapshoot isn’t a zero sum game.  I’d rather be a 1 seed than 16 seed, but even a 16 seed can lose.  I would rather be a 3 seed than a 7 seed, but history has shown plenty of 3 seeds that lost when they “should not” have.

People wrongly assert a crapshoot is a totally unpredictable outcome, that is absolutely not the case.
see webster..a crapshoot by definition is something that has an unpredictable outcome,Not a somewhat unpredictable outcome.  Or you could have said that I would rather be a 7, because it wouldnt feel as bad when we lost, I coild get behind that. Otherwise, your opinion is craaaazy.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lazar's Headband on September 29, 2019, 01:33:28 PM
Not really.  Both are consistent.  It is still a crapshoot.  A crapshoot isn’t a zero sum game. I ’d rather be a 1 seed than 16 seed, but even a 16 seed can lose.  I would rather be a 3 seed than a 7 seed, but history has shown plenty of 3 seeds that lost when they “should not” have.

People wrongly assert a crapshoot is a totally unpredictable outcome, that is absolutely not the case.

 ?-(
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: WarriorDad on September 29, 2019, 02:26:29 PM
Can we move the Hauser stuff to the other board?  They are not here any longer.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: forgetful on September 29, 2019, 02:27:25 PM
Can we move the Hauser stuff to the other board?  They are not here any longer.

Wait, this thread is about the Hauser's? I thought it was about seeding in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jay Bee on September 29, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
Not really.  Both are consistent.  It is still a crapshoot.  A crapshoot isn’t a zero sum game.  I’d rather be a 1 seed than 16 seed, but even a 16 seed can lose.  I would rather be a 3 seed than a 7 seed, but history has shown plenty of 3 seeds that lost when they “should not” have.

People wrongly assert a crapshoot is a totally unpredictable outcome, that is absolutely not the case.

What is your definition of “crapshoot”? Not “an unpredictable outcome”?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 29, 2019, 03:47:53 PM
5 seeds have made the round of 32 5 more times than 7s. 5 seeds have made the Sweet 16 an astounding 19 more times than 7s. 7s have made the Elite 8 2 times more than 5s, 5s have made the FF 3 times more than 7s and the championship game 2 times more. 7s do have one championship to none for 5s. 7th seeded UCONN beat 8th seeded UK in 2014. 5 seeds have a winning percentage of .528, 7 have a winning percentage of .482. 5s have won 26 more games total.

Respectfully, if you put this information into any blender - even one designed and manufactured by Chico, inc. - it adds up that being a 5 is an advantage to being a 7. Not the other way around as you've opined. Why not just admit the obvious?

Peace.

So for clarity, when you said beyond you didn’t really mean beyond....you meant it only to a certain point since a 7 has won it all and a 5 has not (love that you try to dismiss who they played....LOL).  Why not just admit the obvious?  “Beyond” was wrong...a 7 has gone further than a 5 has ever gone...won it all.

Peace

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 29, 2019, 03:55:48 PM
What is your definition of “crapshoot”? Not “an unpredictable outcome”?

I’ve answered this before.

Risky, not a sure thing.  A gamble. 

And when you factor in any loss at any time, it makes it even more so. This isn’t best of 7 or best of 5 or even best of 3.   The best team often doesn’t win the title, that’s what makes it a crapshoot.

Life is a crapshoot, nothing is 100% predictable.  Sun could explode today and not come up tomorrow...probably will, I’d bet the house on it but nothing is guaranteed.  Right now we all die, in the future maybe we don’t.  No one knows. 

In context of the tournament...a crapshoot is what I and other coaches have been saying over the years.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jay Bee on September 29, 2019, 03:58:56 PM
I’ve answered this before.

Risky, not a sure thing.  A gamble. 

Life is a crapshoot, nothing is 100% predictable.

Lol, ok. So most people say crapshoot = unpredictable

You say crapshoot = less than 100%

Pretty funny!
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: lawdog77 on September 29, 2019, 04:10:53 PM
So for clarity, when you said beyond you didn’t really mean beyond....you meant it only to a certain point since a 7 has won it all and a 5 has not (love that you try to dismiss who they played....LOL).  Why not just admit the obvious?  “Beyond” was wrong...a 7 has gone further than a 5 has ever gone...won it all.

Peace
only the uneducated, misinformed, or stubborn would want to be a 7 instead of a 5
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on September 29, 2019, 04:31:44 PM
Merriam Webster Online: something (such as a business venture) that has an unpredictable outcome

Dictionary.com: anything unpredictable, risky, or problematical; gamble.


Collinsdictionary.com: If you describe something as a crapshoot, you mean that what happens depends entirely on luck or chance.

vocabulary.com: playing craps; or a risky and uncertain venture


Hoopaloop and his the coaches he chooses to quote: Whatever I want to claim it is.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 29, 2019, 04:38:05 PM
So for clarity, when you said beyond you didn’t really mean beyond....you meant it only to a certain point since a 7 has won it all and a 5 has not (love that you try to dismiss who they played....LOL).  Why not just admit the obvious?  “Beyond” was wrong...a 7 has gone further than a 5 has ever gone...won it all.

Peace

OMG. This is yet another exhibit of why so many people find you so exasperating.

1.You say you would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed.

2.Someone provides you with facts that prove your preference is misguided.

3.You ignore the date (facts), move the goalposts, try to change the discussion and never address the fact that your original premise (better to be a 7 seed than a 5) was wrong.

I'm sure you know that an 8 seed has also won the tournament one (1) time in 34 years. so I guess it's better to be an 8 than a 5 too. LOL

I really wish you could be a man and admit that you got this one wrong. I like the idea of "Peace". But without a little humility and honesty its meaningless.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: brewcity77 on September 29, 2019, 04:55:31 PM
only the uneducated, misinformed, or stubborn would want to be a 7 instead of a 5

The reason 7's fare better in Sweet 16 games is simply a function of who they are playing against. As CBB noted, there are 10 7-seeds to reach the Elite 8 and 8 5-seeds. However what he fails to note is who they had to beat in the Sweet 16 to get there. A 7-seed has already got past the toughest challenge to reach the Elite 8, that being the 2-seed. Of the 10 7-seeds to advance, 6 had to beat 3-seeds, 3 had to beat 6-seeds, and 1 had to beat a 14-seed.

Conversely, of the 8 5-seeds to reach the Elite 8, 7 of them had to beat a 1-seed to get there while 1 beat a 9-seed. So yes, if you want to get to the Elite 8, it's a little easier for a 7 because by the time they reach the Sweet 16 they are likely to face a much weaker opponent, but as you're almost twice as likely to get to the Sweet 16 from the 5-line and twice as likely to get to the Final Four from the 5-line.

Pointing out the Elite 8 odds are the cherriest of cherry picking.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on September 29, 2019, 05:16:59 PM
OMG. This is yet another exhibit of why so many people find you so exasperating.

1.You say you would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed.

2.Someone provides you with facts that prove your preference is misguided.

3.You ignore the date (facts), move the goalposts, try to change the discussion and never address the fact that your original premise (better to be a 7 seed than a 5) was wrong.

I'm sure you know that an 8 seed has also won the tournament one (1) time in 34 years. so I guess it's better to be an 8 than a 5 too. LOL

I really wish you could be a man and admit that you got this one wrong. I like the idea of "Peace". But without a little humility and honesty its meaningless.

I said I would rather be a 7 then a 5.

You said, the 5 is better for advancing to the 2nd, 3rd, and beyond then the 7 seed.  That was a false statement that you keep saying is factual....and you are exasperated because I called you out on your non factual statement.  Sorry about that, but what you said was false.  It is true up to a point, but unless BEYOND only means to a certain point (which it doesn’t) it is false.  I’m sorry you chose to use the word BEYOND.  When you said it, I knew it was off and responded back because I knew a 5 had never won it all, but a 6 and 7 had....so I knew immediately the BEYOND part of your statement was wrong.  You can be exasperated all you wish.  It is like your Hauser comment pressuring the ball in the Georgetown game.

Now you are trying to move the goalposts to suggest you didn’t really mean all of it, but most of it.  Uhm, no.

And yet you want me to man up and admit something I didn’t say was wrong, when you did?  That’s rich.

YES or NO...has a 5 seed ever held the NCAA trophy from the men’s basketball tournament?  Yes or No, has a 6 and a 7 seed done so?  Therefore, to date at least, being a 6 or 7 seed has actually proven you can go to the BEYOND and win it all....a 5 seed has not.

Sorry you are exasperated....next time say it differently and don’t get all spun up,when people ask you questions about YOUR words.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Marcus92 on September 29, 2019, 05:35:13 PM
A team's seed in the NCAA tournament reflects how they performed during the season up to that point. In the eyes of the committee, a team that earns a 5 seed is a better team than a 7 seed. I'd rather have the better team and the better seed. Always.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Marcus92 on September 29, 2019, 05:43:14 PM
As for the tournament records of 5 seeds and 7 seeds, I wonder how much of that is statistical noise within the expected deviation range. In some cases, you may be comparing the 20th best team in the country to the 25th best. Probably not that big of a difference.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: brewcity77 on September 29, 2019, 05:53:37 PM
Another note on the 5/7 debate. Yes, a 7 has won a title, but it did so as a favorite. The only 7 to ever reach the title game ended up facing a lower seed in the Championship Game when 2014 UConn beat Kentucky. Every 5-seed to ever advance to the Championship Game has faced a 1-seed.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 29, 2019, 06:19:59 PM
Another note on the 5/7 debate. Yes, a 7 has won a title, but it did so as a favorite. The only 7 to ever reach the title game ended up facing a lower seed in the Championship Game when 2014 UConn beat Kentucky. Every 5-seed to ever advance to the Championship Game has faced a 1-seed.

Yes. 5s have reached the final game 3 times as often as 7s. They've reached the FF twice as often.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 29, 2019, 06:23:29 PM
As for the tournament records of 5 seeds and 7 seeds, I wonder how much of that is statistical noise within the expected deviation range. In some cases, you may be comparing the 20th best team in the country to the 25th best. Probably not that big of a difference.

There may not be much difference in the quality of the teams - but there is a significant difference in the number of games won (26). More proof that the 5s have the easier and preferable path.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on September 29, 2019, 06:32:09 PM
I said I would rather be a 7 then a 5.

You said, the 5 is better for advancing to the 2nd, 3rd, and beyond then the 7 seed.  That was a false statement that you keep saying is factual....and you are exasperated because I called you out on your non factual statement.  Sorry about that, but what you said was false.  It is true up to a point, but unless BEYOND only means to a certain point (which it doesn’t) it is false.  I’m sorry you chose to use the word BEYOND.  When you said it, I knew it was off and responded back because I knew a 5 had never won it all, but a 6 and 7 had....so I knew immediately the BEYOND part of your statement was wrong.  You can be exasperated all you wish.  It is like your Hauser comment pressuring the ball in the Georgetown game.

Now you are trying to move the goalposts to suggest you didn’t really mean all of it, but most of it.  Uhm, no.

And yet you want me to man up and admit something I didn’t say was wrong, when you did?  That’s rich.

YES or NO...has a 5 seed ever held the NCAA trophy from the men’s basketball tournament?  Yes or No, has a 6 and a 7 seed done so?  Therefore, to date at least, being a 6 or 7 seed has actually proven you can go to the BEYOND and win it all....a 5 seed has not.

Sorry you are exasperated....next time say it differently and don’t get all spun up,when people ask you questions about YOUR words.

OK, so to you the NCAA tournament is a complete crapshoot.

But the fact that a 7-seed won that crapshoot exactly once in the decades that seeding has been done "proves" that it's "better" to be a 7-seed than a 5-seed, even though 5-seeds historically have been far more likely to reach the second weekend.

You be you, hoopaloop.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 29, 2019, 06:52:15 PM
I said I would rather be a 7 then a 5.


And I retract my original statement in regards to this. "Beyond" was not correct in every instance so I retract that single word.

My intended response to this was (and is) this: yours is an uninformed opinion not supported by the facts. If, after having the facts pointed out to you you persist in this opinion, it's not just wrong. It's stubbornly pig headed.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Small Orange Soda on September 29, 2019, 08:36:39 PM
I'd rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed experiencing a locker room mutiny.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mutaman on November 05, 2019, 11:50:31 PM
After all the posts and all writing and all the arguing, i still have no idea why they left. Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Greggery Peccary on November 06, 2019, 10:04:47 AM
After all the posts and all writing and all the arguing, i still have no idea why they left. Did I miss something?

most likely
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 06, 2019, 10:11:33 AM
Who is "they"?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mutaman on November 06, 2019, 12:07:17 PM
Who is "they"?

Chicos Bail Bonds and Keefe.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 06, 2019, 12:10:53 PM
Chicos Bail Bonds and Keefe.

Chicos = Cheeks
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: UWW2MU on November 06, 2019, 12:16:06 PM
Who is "they"?

Anyone who doesn't want to be constrained by the limits of contemporary language to box them into some normative stereotype.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Johnny B on November 06, 2019, 12:30:46 PM
Non binary ppl
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: tower912 on November 06, 2019, 12:33:20 PM
Supposedly, Joey's reason for leaving is included in his appeal.  FOIA it.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 06, 2019, 05:42:13 PM
Supposedly, Joey's reason for leaving is included in his appeal.  FOIA it.

Cannot wait until that gets out, going to be more meat for some I am sure.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: tower912 on November 06, 2019, 05:46:21 PM
Cannot wait until that gets out, going to be more meat for some I am sure.

It will be fresh meat for both all sides.  Everyone will see something in it to reinforce their opinion.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 06, 2019, 06:35:22 PM
It will be fresh meat for both all sides.  Everyone will see something in it to reinforce their opinion.

Without a doubt
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: zcg2013 on November 10, 2019, 09:07:52 AM
Seeing a lot of things on Twitter that point to Joey being eligible for the second half of the season.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 10, 2019, 09:11:21 AM
Seeing a lot of things on Twitter that point to Joey being eligible for the second half of the season.

Hope he goes for 50 against UW
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 10, 2019, 09:24:47 AM
Seeing a lot of things on Twitter that point to Joey being eligible for the second half of the season.

better hope cassius doesn't have to tell him to get his schmit together
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: brewcity77 on November 10, 2019, 09:31:29 AM
It would be odd to grant him a mid-season waiver. I wonder if it has to do with him initially enrolling in the second semester for his redshirt year. Strange decision if true. Will be interesting to see Badger heads explode when Potter doesn't get his.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 10, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
It would be odd to grant him a mid-season waiver. I wonder if it has to do with him initially enrolling in the second semester for his redshirt year. Strange decision if true. Will be interesting to see Badger heads explode when Potter doesn't get his.

They’re making Micah Potter into the second coming of Bill Russell.  I expect 20-20 every game from him
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 10, 2019, 09:42:49 AM
Just one more small step toward the anarchy that is going to destroy college sports.

Should be in the Doom thread!
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Benny B on November 10, 2019, 10:10:12 AM
Supposedly, Joey's reason for leaving is included in his appeal.  FOIA it.

Already on it.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: TallTitan34 on November 10, 2019, 10:11:13 AM
I look forward to the reasoning behind this waiver.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 11, 2019, 02:32:19 AM
He got beat up
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Retire0 on November 11, 2019, 05:40:39 AM
He got beat up

I really want to believe this.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 11, 2019, 08:03:16 PM
   kinda related except jahvon's been in a few more beds than joey-ncaa rules no waiver to quinerly

 https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28060745/ncaa-give-alabama-jahvon-quinerly-waiver-play
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: forgetful on November 11, 2019, 11:24:09 PM
I look forward to the reasoning behind this waiver.

There aren't any good reasons that would constitute a mitigating circumstance. My guess, hopes and prayers.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MuMark on November 12, 2019, 05:26:11 PM
https://twitter.com/chrissolari/status/1194389212503646209?s=21
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 12, 2019, 10:17:32 PM
Article the other day says he loves MSU, going to football games, bigger campus, etc.

Different strokes for different folks.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 13, 2019, 12:21:48 PM
https://twitter.com/chrissolari/status/1194389212503646209?s=21

this never happens. The guy who tweeted "special treatment for elite programs" is on to something here IF the original tweet is accurate.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Retire0 on November 13, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
this never happens. The guy who tweeted "special treatment for elite programs" is on to something here IF the original tweet is accurate.

Micah Porter is also getting a hearing, so it's not just for 'elite programs'.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lazar's Headband on November 13, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
Micah Porter is also getting a hearing, so it's not just for 'elite programs'.

Thought it was a phone interview.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: CountryRoads on November 21, 2019, 12:40:02 PM
Apologies if this was posted but Joey was officially denied his waiver today. Is it now time to appeal the appealed decision?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2019, 12:48:36 PM
Apologies if this was posted but Joey was officially denied his waiver today. Is it now time to appeal the appealed decision?

you only get one appeal. At least, that's how it's supposed to work, but maybe "elite" schools get a different set of rules on this.

That said, the correct decision was made - there was no reason for Joey to get a wavier.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: swoopem on November 21, 2019, 12:53:53 PM
Apologies if this was posted but Joey was officially denied his waiver today.

Good
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: brewcity77 on November 21, 2019, 12:59:24 PM
Izzo threw a fit and resigned from the NABC Board of Directors last night because of the decision. Good lord he's such a crybaby. I can't stand Tom Izzo.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2019, 01:08:21 PM
Izzo threw a fit and resigned from the NABC Board of Directors last night because of the decision. Good lord he's such a crybaby. I can't stand Tom Izzo.

Tom Izzo is more upset about this than any of his many players that have committed sexual assaults and his university’s response to Larry Nassar.  He’s a garbage human being
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: tower912 on November 21, 2019, 01:10:33 PM
Fascinating.    I would still love to see (A) Joey's rationale for asking for it, and (B) what caused the NCAA to deny it.   

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2019/11/21/michigan-state-basketball-joey-hauser-eligibility-ncaa-appeal/4259356002/
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 21, 2019, 01:11:17 PM
Too bad.  Should have been granted.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: genious expert on November 21, 2019, 01:20:57 PM
Fascinating.    I would still love to see (A) Joey's rationale for asking for it, and (B) what caused the NCAA to deny it.   

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2019/11/21/michigan-state-basketball-joey-hauser-eligibility-ncaa-appeal/4259356002/

Here's a guess...
(A) Why the hell not
(B) No reason to grant him one
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 21, 2019, 02:09:25 PM
Joey Who?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2019, 02:29:06 PM
Fascinating.    I would still love to see (A) Joey's rationale for asking for it, and (B) what caused the NCAA to deny it.   

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2019/11/21/michigan-state-basketball-joey-hauser-eligibility-ncaa-appeal/4259356002/

the waivers are only granted if the transfer was caused by mitigating circumstances.  For example, being runoff, cancelation of the scholarship, something that happened at the previous institution that led the SA to feel he/she had to leave (e.g., a female SA was the victim of a sexual assault), or the need to transfer closer to home due to a family illness or personal hardship on the part of the SA (e.g., mental health). All of this must be documented.

As far as we know, Joey did not meet any of those criteria.  Markus not passing the ball and chucking 25 times a game isn't a mitigating circumstance and getting posterized by Ja Morant in the NCAA tourney didn't lead to mental issues that would rise to the level to be granted a waiver.

And I have no idea why Izzo is leaving the NABC, they have nothing to do with the decision. Probably a sense of entitlement for an elite program.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: war1980rior on November 21, 2019, 02:32:01 PM
Joey Who?

Joey "Bag of Donuts."  Some guy.

I read the quick article and at the bottom, it said his family pushed it.  Nuff said.  He probably would have rather done a request that had a better chance of going through, but from my point of view, nothing special.  Probably easy to turn down.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 21, 2019, 02:40:21 PM
Izzo threw a fit and resigned from the NABC Board of Directors last night because of the decision. Good lord he's such a crybaby. I can't stand Tom Izzo.

Izzo is a baby, and his being "devastated" by this (his word) is curious in light of his response to other things that have occurred in the MSU athletic dept.
That said, he's not entirely wrong. The NCAA has been arbitrary and has lacked any semblance of transparency when deciding these things.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 21, 2019, 02:44:31 PM
Izzo is losses because of the inconsistency by the NCAA on this.  He wants everyone to sit out a year is his preference and I don’t blame him.  This half pregnant stuff is crap.

Friends at the NCAA have told me that once the exceptions were made, Pandora’s box was ripped open.  Suddenly everyone has a sob story or reason.  Some are legit, but some are complete bullcrap and take the NCAA a lot of time and resources to track down.  Unfortunately human beings abuse the system in some cases and essentially making fraudulent claims or overselling the reasons.  (Not saying Hauser did this...General statement I am making).

Everyone sits for one year, be consistent, stop the nonsense and making the Grey area where everyone bitches. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 21, 2019, 02:45:43 PM
the waivers are only granted if the transfer was caused by mitigating circumstances.  For example, being runoff, cancelation of the scholarship, something that happened at the previous institution that led the SA to feel he/she had to leave (e.g., a female SA was the victim of a sexual assault), or the need to transfer closer to home due to a family illness or personal hardship on the part of the SA (e.g., mental health). All of this must be documented.

As far as we know, Joey did not meet any of those criteria.  Markus not passing the ball and chucking 25 times a game isn't a mitigating circumstance and getting posterized by Ja Morant in the NCAA tourney didn't lead to mental issues that would rise to the level to be granted a waiver.

And I have no idea why Izzo is leaving the NABC, they have nothing to do with the decision. Probably a sense of entitlement for an elite program.

Is it possible for him to claim that after the letter he was "runoff" or that playing for MU lead to depression?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2019, 03:15:44 PM
Is it possible for him to claim that after the letter he was "runoff" or that playing for MU lead to depression?

he could, but Bill Scholl and Wojo would have to confirm that and there would have to be contemporaneous medical documentation of depression at the time.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2019, 03:18:48 PM
.

Everyone sits for one year, be consistent, stop the nonsense and making the Grey area where everyone bitches.

I thought the NCAA proposal to allow immediate eligibility if a certain GPA were attained made sense, but the initial proposal of a 3.3 was too high and people like Goodman, Parrish and Goodman complained so the Condi Rice commission caved.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 21, 2019, 03:32:08 PM
Is it possible for him to claim that after the letter he was "runoff" or that playing for MU lead to depression?

He can claim anything he wants, but arguing that he was run off because the coach didn't bend to his tactical demands wouldn't seem particularly effective.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: ManeCity83 on November 21, 2019, 03:45:12 PM
He could show the NCAA a video of Markus yelling in his face and making him cry on the court in front of 15,000 fans and a National TV audience.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: tower912 on November 21, 2019, 03:45:56 PM
He could show the NCAA a video of Markus yelling in his face and making him cry on the court in front of 15,000 fans and a National TV audience.
I thought that was Izzo and Henry.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: VegasWarrior77 on November 21, 2019, 03:47:52 PM
He could show the NCAA a video of Markus yelling in his face and making him cry on the court in front of 15,000 fans and a National TV audience.

What game was that?  I remember Joey staring in the distance as Markus was trying to motivate him.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: jsglow on November 21, 2019, 03:57:19 PM
He could show the NCAA a video of Markus yelling in his face and making him cry on the court in front of 15,000 fans and a National TV audience.

Curious if you say at DePaul.  Chick and I were courtside and witnessed his Team Captain (Markus) get up in his grill attempting to get him to wipe a 'sorry for himself' look off his face and get his head in the game.  I, for one, loved it.

I also loved said Team Captain congratulatory chest bumping young Jamal Cain who brought his A game that day when the team had faced foul trouble and he was forced to play major minutes.  Jamal had struggled in previous games but was important that night and his captain let him know it.... and he absolutely appreciated it.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: ManeCity83 on November 21, 2019, 04:14:35 PM
Yes, it was the DePaul game.  And I loved what Markus was doing too.  But that was the day I started seeing Joey as a big crybaby.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 21, 2019, 04:18:48 PM
I thought the NCAA proposal to allow immediate eligibility if a certain GPA were attained made sense, but the initial proposal of a 3.3 was too high and people like Goodman, Parrish and Goodman complained so the Condi Rice commission caved.

I still say pass.  A 3.3 or fill in the blank GPA for ______ Studies is different than a 3.3 in Marketing or Biology or Engineering or Computer Science.  Penalizing kids for majoring in tougher academic fields.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: swoopem on November 21, 2019, 04:25:24 PM
Not sure if this link will work or not but my Michigan St friends are bitching cuz Markus is on the committee so they think he blocked it. Obviously he’s a non voting member but they think he influenced the others. Him and Matt Painter.

I’m loving the Michigan St tears

http://web1.ncaa.org/committees/committees_roster.jsp?CommitteeName=1MBBOVERSIGH&fbclid=IwAR2trPZSmtX4q7mL7JcNsJSijBedrsAbEYOoB0EH7FAhl3hagFe6y9SnzZc

 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 21, 2019, 04:28:53 PM
Not sure if this link will work or not but my Michigan St friends are bitching cuz Markus is in the committee so they think he blocked it. Obviously he’s a non voting member but they think he influenced the others. Him and Matt Painter.

I’m loving the Michigan St tears

http://web1.ncaa.org/committees/committees_roster.jsp?CommitteeName=1MBBOVERSIGH&fbclid=IwAR2trPZSmtX4q7mL7JcNsJSijBedrsAbEYOoB0EH7FAhl3hagFe6y9SnzZc

Lol.  Matt Painter loves him some Marquette!  Blocks Joey from being able to play right away, blows a game at MU so Dawson comes to MU and he doesn't see him in the B1G every year at IU.  Awesome!
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 21, 2019, 04:35:13 PM
Lol.  Matt Painter loves him some Marquette!  Blocks Joey from being able to play right away, blows a game at MU so Dawson comes to MU and he doesn't see him in the B1G every year at IU.  Awesome!

I think we know who is gonna replace Wojo...setting his own table.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2019, 04:37:15 PM
I still say pass.  A 3.3 or fill in the blank GPA for ______ Studies is different than a 3.3 in Marketing or Biology or Engineering or Computer Science.  Penalizing kids for majoring in tougher academic fields.

I was fine with 2.6 since that's the threshold to get a APR point back for a transfer. 3.3 was too high. My thought was the committee was throwing that out there to look more charitable when they came back and said "ok, 3.0" or whatever. Instead, Condi and the committee caved to media pressure.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 21, 2019, 04:41:49 PM
Everyone sits for one year, be consistent, stop the nonsense and making the Grey area where everyone bitches.

So a kid who can show he was mistreated or cut loose should be required to sit a year?
Makes sense.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2019, 04:42:47 PM
Not sure if this link will work or not but my Michigan St friends are bitching cuz Markus is on the committee so they think he blocked it. Obviously he’s a non voting member but they think he influenced the others. Him and Matt Painter.

I’m loving the Michigan St tears

http://web1.ncaa.org/committees/committees_roster.jsp?CommitteeName=1MBBOVERSIGH&fbclid=IwAR2trPZSmtX4q7mL7JcNsJSijBedrsAbEYOoB0EH7FAhl3hagFe6y9SnzZc

This isn't the appeals committee that would have heard and decided the case. But if it were both Painter and Markus would have had to recused themselves.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: jsglow on November 21, 2019, 04:42:52 PM
Yes, it was the DePaul game.  And I loved what Markus was doing too.  But that was the day I started seeing Joey as a big crybaby.

It was truly awesome.  Joey had been playing like crap and missing free throws and was totally down in the dumps.  DePaul was doing more than just hanging around and Markus legitimately (and correctly) believed the 6'9" SPASH superstar needed a kick in the ass.  He wasn't derogatory and he didn't get personal and insult his mom.  He told a effin' Freshman what it took to win at this level, that he was central to his team's effort, and to get his head right.  All done from about a full head lower.  Beautiful.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2019, 04:43:40 PM
Lol.  Matt Painter loves him some Marquette!  Blocks Joey from being able to play right away, blows a game at MU so Dawson comes to MU and he doesn't see him in the B1G every year at IU.  Awesome!

Painter had nothing to do with it. And these decisions don't have to be unanimous.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: lawdog77 on November 21, 2019, 04:44:28 PM
So a kid who can show he was mistreated or cut loose should be required to sit a year?
Makes sense.
Agreed. Sitting for a year automatically does no good for anyone. Just need more transparency and consistency in the process.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 21, 2019, 04:44:33 PM
Too bad.  Should have been granted.

either you are in a real trolling mood or just weird.  akay-i'm grabbin me some popcorn and i'll sit back and listen
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 21, 2019, 04:49:08 PM
either you are in a real trolling mood or just weird.  akay-i'm grabbin me some popcorn and i'll sit back and listen

I’ve said many times that I don’t believe students should have to wait a year.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 21, 2019, 04:49:54 PM
So a kid who can show he was mistreated or cut loose should be required to sit a year?
Makes sense.

Define mistreatment.  He called me a naughty name?  He made me feel small?  He said I sucked or was a kitten?  He hit me? He made me run 10X the other players?   The range is huge, what bothers one person doesn’t another, some coaches truly are abusive while in other cases entitled kid cannot take even the most mild form of criticism.

People need to stop
Whining when the NCAA says your sudden bout of depression that never existed and magically came up and can only be solved if you transfer to these three schools, too.  Way too much abuse and fraud going on.

How about this...NCAA finds you are fraudulent, you sit out TWO years.  I’d be on board with that to curtail the crap side going on

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: jesmu84 on November 21, 2019, 04:52:54 PM
Define mistreatment.  He called me a naughty name?  He made me feel small?  He said I sucked or was a kitten?  He hit me? He made me run 10X the other players?   The range is huge, what bothers one person doesn’t another, some coaches truly are abusive while in other cases entitled kid cannot take even the most mild form of criticism.

People need to stop
Whining when the NCAA says your sudden bout of depression that never existed and magically came up and can only be solved if you transfer to these three schools, too.  Way too much abuse and fraud going on.

How about this...NCAA finds you are fraudulent, you sit out TWO years.  I’d be on board with that to curtail the crap side going on

Is it mistreatment if a coach punches a player?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mutaman on November 21, 2019, 04:57:42 PM

Still waiting for someone with knowledge to tell me why the Hausers left. No speculation please and I don't have time to FOIL Joey's application.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 21, 2019, 05:10:22 PM
Define mistreatment.  He called me a naughty name?  He made me feel small?  He said I sucked or was a kitten?  He hit me? He made me run 10X the other players?   The range is huge, what bothers one person doesn’t another, some coaches truly are abusive while in other cases entitled kid cannot take even the most mild form of criticism.

People need to stop
Whining when the NCAA says your sudden bout of depression that never existed and magically came up and can only be solved if you transfer to these three schools, too.  Way too much abuse and fraud going on.

How about this...NCAA finds you are fraudulent, you sit out TWO years.  I’d be on board with that to curtail the crap side going on

Define fraudulent.

Look, this is why an appeals process exists. So that a (hopefully) independent panel can examine the facts and circumstances of an individual's case and make a reasonable decision as to whether the situation was such that the player deserves a waiver.
What you're advocating instead is a dumb, one-size-fits-all solution that fails to take into account that some players are forced to transfer for reasons beyond their control, and they shouldn't be punished as a result.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: We R Final Four on November 21, 2019, 05:14:21 PM
either you are in a real trolling mood or just weird.  akay-i'm grabbin me some popcorn and i'll sit back and listen
Don’t feed it.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2019, 05:30:41 PM
Define mistreatment.  He called me a naughty name?  He made me feel small?  He said I sucked or was a kitten?  He hit me? He made me run 10X the other players?   The range is huge, what bothers one person doesn’t another, some coaches truly are abusive while in other cases entitled kid cannot take even the most mild form of criticism.

People need to stop
Whining when the NCAA says your sudden bout of depression that never existed and magically came up and can only be solved if you transfer to these three schools, too.  Way too much abuse and fraud going on.


How about this...NCAA finds you are fraudulent, you sit out TWO years.  I’d be on board with that to curtail the crap side going on

The burden is a lot higher than that.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 21, 2019, 06:00:25 PM
Define fraudulent.

Look, this is why an appeals process exists. So that a (hopefully) independent panel can examine the facts and circumstances of an individual's case and make a reasonable decision as to whether the situation was such that the player deserves a waiver.
What you're advocating instead is a dumb, one-size-fits-all solution that fails to take into account that some players are forced to transfer for reasons beyond their control, and they shouldn't be punished as a result.

Your empathy for those suffering through depression is remarkable.

Agree 100% that a) one size fits all isn't usually an effective solution and b) depression is a very serious mental health issue that deserves consideration and empathy from the rule makers (and everyone else for that matter).

That said, when a door is opened, people who shouldn't walk through will try to nonetheless. "Special treatment" should be limited to verifiably special situations. Hope that's the case.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: BallBoy on November 21, 2019, 06:26:00 PM
Fascinating.    I would still love to see (A) Joey's rationale for asking for it, and (B) what caused the NCAA to deny it.   

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2019/11/21/michigan-state-basketball-joey-hauser-eligibility-ncaa-appeal/4259356002/

Interesting that this article states the parents asked for the waiver when all previous articles stated MSU does it for everyone.

Also of note, Izzo, at the beginning, said this was a long shot so hard to understand his actions now.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mutaman on November 21, 2019, 06:49:59 PM
Joey's transfer process makes as much sense as Joey's transfer:

1. 7/17/19 : "Hauser said Tuesday that he didn't apply for a transfer waiver to try to play this upcoming season."
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/sports/college/msu/mens-basketball/2019/07/17/joey-hauser-michigan-state-msu-basketball-transfer-marquette/1752512001/

2. 9/24/19 " Tom Izzo told reporters earlier today that Marquette transfer Joey Hauser has filed a waiver with the NCAA with the hope of earning immediate eligibility for Michigan State during the 2019-20 college basketball season."
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/d8slp6/tom_izzo_told_reporters_earlier_today_that/

3. 10/28/19 "Izzo says getting Hauser eligible "would really help some things right now." Also said he felt like it was a "no-brainer" at one point that he would not be eligible, but sees how many are being approved."
https://newnationnews.org/michigan/msu-hc-tom-izzo-sounds-distaste-transfer-portal-rules-regulations-08448406

4. 11/21/19  "Joey did have a strong case," Izzo said Thursday. "And I am devastated, if you want to know the truth."

So it went from Joey wasn't even going to apply- to joey applied but izzo thought it would be a no-brainer it would be  denied- to Izzo is devastated that it was denied.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: CountryRoads on November 21, 2019, 06:56:24 PM
Wonder what that big secret “strong case” was.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: marqfan22 on November 21, 2019, 07:14:42 PM
They make it like he was kidnapped and missed his senior year.

He enrolled and got D1 rehab.

You can’t have it both ways.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: tower912 on November 21, 2019, 07:15:12 PM
https://michiganstate.rivals.com/news/ncaa-denies-hauser-immediate-eligibility-izzo-disgusted?yptr=yahoo

It looks like that originally, no one thought there was one.    Then, the Hausers saw everybody applying for an getting one, so they gave it a whirl.    They thought they had as good a case as a lot of the other ones granted.    Izzo resigned because of his disgust with the lack of consistency and the feeling that it is arbitrary. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 21, 2019, 07:18:01 PM
The burden is a lot higher than that.

Understood
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Herman Cain on November 21, 2019, 07:20:30 PM
https://michiganstate.rivals.com/news/ncaa-denies-hauser-immediate-eligibility-izzo-disgusted?yptr=yahoo

It looks like that originally, no one thought there was one.    Then, the Hausers saw everybody applying for an getting one, so they gave it a whirl.    They thought they had as good a case as a lot of the other ones granted.    Izzo resigned because of his disgust with the lack of consistency and the feeling that it is arbitrary.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28131369/tom-izzo-leaves-board-ncaa-denies-waiver-joey-hauser
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 21, 2019, 07:24:05 PM
https://michiganstate.rivals.com/news/ncaa-denies-hauser-immediate-eligibility-izzo-disgusted?yptr=yahoo

It looks like that originally, no one thought there was one.    Then, the Hausers saw everybody applying for an getting one, so they gave it a whirl.    They thought they had as good a case as a lot of the other ones granted.    Izzo resigned because of his disgust with the lack of consistency and the feeling that it is arbitrary.

Quote
When Hauser transferred to Michigan State, there were no plans to pursue immediate eligibility.

“I didn’t think anything of it in August, because we weren’t going to do anything,” Izzo said. “And then when they’re family brought up that it’s going on at different places, and seeing what’s going on and talking to some coaches, I’m devastated that he will have to sit out his second season in three years.”

Yet, Sam didn't apply? Odd all the way around.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 21, 2019, 07:24:15 PM
Define fraudulent.

Look, this is why an appeals process exists. So that a (hopefully) independent panel can examine the facts and circumstances of an individual's case and make a reasonable decision as to whether the situation was such that the player deserves a waiver.
What you're advocating instead is a dumb, one-size-fits-all solution that fails to take into account that some players are forced to transfer for reasons beyond their control, and they shouldn't be punished as a result.

In my mind yours is just as dumb because the consistency is so random.  X gets a waiver, but Y doesn’t and the differences are subjective.

Different case managers review different cases.  Look, I get that this is hard and there are legit folks that need to be considered.  When I say fraudulent, I mean players trying to scam the system, lying about the situation, having doctors that will say anything to get a ruling / write a script, etc.  Cuz people going to do what they do.

Not cut and dried, on that I will agree.  You tend to be a believer in folks and it’s ok if a few scammers get through.  I tend to be a more reward the true, absolute provable folks that need it to limit the fraudsters.  I suspect we are the same with a bunch of other qualifications when it comes to benefits, resources, etc.  I look at it in terms of who is damaged...including the existing team that the player is leaving, especially of the player is lying their arse off.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 21, 2019, 07:25:49 PM
So it went from Joey wasn't even going to apply- to joey applied but izzo thought it would be a no-brainer it would be  denied- to Izzo is devastated that it was denied.


Joey must be tearing it up at practice, ai'na?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 21, 2019, 07:28:45 PM
In my mind yours is just as dumb because the consistency is so random.  X gets a waiver, but Y doesn’t and the differences are subjective.

Different case managers review different cases.  Look, I get that this is hard and there are legit folks that need to be considered.  When I say fraudulent, I mean players trying to scam the system, lying about the situation, having doctors that will say anything to get a ruling / write a script, etc.  Cuz people going to do what they do.

Not cut and dried, on that I will agree.  You tend to be a believer in folks and it’s ok if a few scammers get through.  I tend to be a more reward the true, absolute provable folks that need it to limit the fraudsters.  I suspect we are the same with a bunch of other qualifications when it comes to benefits, resources, etc.  I look at it in terms of who is damaged...including the existing team that the player is leaving, especially of the player is lying their arse off.

Yeah I’m going to say there are very, very, very few doctors who will risk their medical license to help a college athlete become immediately eligible after a transfer.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: lawdog77 on November 21, 2019, 07:30:18 PM
Yeah I’m going to say there are very, very, very few doctors who will risk their medical license to help a college athlete become immediately eligible after a transfer.
probably dr. Nasser from Msu
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 21, 2019, 07:39:34 PM
probably dr. Nasser from Msu

Score
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Retire0 on November 21, 2019, 08:16:15 PM
probably dr. Nasser from Msu

While Vanilla Soft Serve may have the right parts for Nassar, he’s too old.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 21, 2019, 08:50:49 PM
Ummm , i say fvck joey hauser and izzo too
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: TallTitan34 on November 21, 2019, 08:58:28 PM
Ummm , i say fvck joey hauser and izzo too

If Joey didn’t leave we wouldn’t have Dawson.

Granted, if Joey never came we might still have Sam and Dawson.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 21, 2019, 09:45:08 PM
Yes, Izzo sounds like a jerk. But he is right: The thing is arbitrary.

I don't think athletes should have to sit out a year when they transfer, just as the scholarship tuba player, scholarship ballerina and scholarship newspaper editor don't. But the way the NCAA offers waivers, in their typically inept NCAA way, is ridiculous.

That being said, I don't feel "sorry" for Joey Hauser, a crybaby who helped undermine what at the time was a great season.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Nukem2 on November 21, 2019, 09:47:14 PM
Yes, Izzo sounds like a jerk. But he is right: The thing is arbitrary.

I don't think athletes should have to sit out a year when they transfer, just as the scholarship tuba player, scholarship ballerina and scholarship newspaper editor don't. But the way the NCAA offers waivers, in their typically inept NCAA way, is ridiculous.

That being said, I don't feel "sorry" for Joey Hauser, a crybaby who helped undermine what at the time was a great season.
Does that tuba player get a full ride scolie at his next school?  Unlikely.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 21, 2019, 09:49:53 PM
Does that tuba player get a full ride scolie at his next school?  Unlikely.

I don't know nuthin' about how music students get their schollies. But I do know that a lot of schools -- including Marquette -- give full rides to the editor of their school newspaper, and I highly doubt that somebody who leaves Iowa to go to Marquette and be the editor at the school newspaper would be denied the scholarship and/or forced to sit out a year.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 21, 2019, 09:53:09 PM
Yes, Izzo sounds like a jerk. But he is right: The thing is arbitrary.

I don't think athletes should have to sit out a year when they transfer, just as the scholarship tuba player, scholarship ballerina and scholarship newspaper editor don't. But the way the NCAA offers waivers, in their typically inept NCAA way, is ridiculous.

That being said, I don't feel "sorry" for Joey Hauser, a crybaby who helped undermine what at the time was a great season.

Izzo is the scum of the earth.  The coaches should have kicked his ass off of their board years ago. 

Caught cheating:  Check
Caught covering up rapes: Check
Faux outrage over this appeal: Check

Joe Paterno had less transgressions.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 21, 2019, 10:25:47 PM
Does that tuba player get a full ride scolie at his next school?  Unlikely.

Nope and the tuba player isn’t on tv, in a league, with thousands of people caring about them.  There are no record books going back 100 years on how Th e Tuba player played, etc.   The comparisons are ridiculous, I don’t know why people keep making them.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: GB Warrior on November 21, 2019, 10:29:02 PM
I don't like that Izzo just resigned like that. He should have written a letter first.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 21, 2019, 10:31:08 PM
Yeah I’m going to say there are very, very, very few doctors who will risk their medical license to help a college athlete become immediately eligible after a transfer.

You can find doctors to write notes for all kinds of stuff...called doctor shopping. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 21, 2019, 10:50:14 PM
I don't know nuthin' about how music students get their schollies. But I do know that a lot of schools -- including Marquette -- give full rides to the editor of their school newspaper, and I highly doubt that somebody who leaves Iowa to go to Marquette and be the editor at the school newspaper would be denied the scholarship and/or forced to sit out a year.

Marquette doesn't promote from within? They bring in a transfer from Iowa to run things? There outta be a law,,,
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 21, 2019, 10:50:57 PM
You can find doctors to write notes for all kinds of stuff...called doctor shopping.

“That will say anything/write a script to get a ruling.” Yeah...no.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Heisenberg v2.0 on November 21, 2019, 10:55:04 PM
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28131369/tom-izzo-leaves-board-ncaa-denies-waiver-joey-hauser

Hauser transferred to Michigan State from Marquette in May and requested a waiver from the NCAA to be eligible immediately instead of sitting out the season, per usual transfer rules. The NCAA recently changed its waiver policy to give more undergraduate transfers a chance to become immediately eligible to compete.

"We opened Pandora's box and maybe it will never be shut," Izzo said.

Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields is among the football players who received a waiver to play in 2019 after transferring following the 2018 season. Earlier this week, the NCAA cleared forward Gabe Osabuohien to play at West Virginia this season after approving his waiver request and TCU got a boost when Ohio State transfer Jaedon LeDee was granted a waiver.

Izzo did not reference any specific decision the NCAA has made, but he said the governing body is relying on people outside of the game to make critical decisions.

"Joey didn't come here because he thought he was going to play right away," the coach said. "There was not even any talk about that. But as waivers started to pile up as the summer went on, Joey and his family felt they had a strong case. And I don't really appreciate when some people are getting waivers, and other people aren't.

"All the research I've seen, the consistency and the guidelines for this seem absurd. There's arbitrary decisions being made. And what bothers me the most is they're being made by individuals who don't really understand what's going on in our game."

He said he has tried to be a part of coming up with solutions as part of the NABC, but stepped down from his role because he is fed up.

"I just don't believe I want to be dealing with these problems and banging my head against the wall," he said.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2019, 11:36:55 PM
If Joey didn’t leave we wouldn’t have Dawson.

Granted, if Joey never came we might still have Sam and Dawson.

Can’t wait to see everyone turn on Dawson like people did Joey (who was ranked higher). Let’s pump the breaks on expectations and hype for kids who haven’t even started their senior seasons.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: brewcity77 on November 22, 2019, 05:29:28 AM
I don't know nuthin' about how music students get their schollies. But I do know that a lot of schools -- including Marquette -- give full rides to the editor of their school newspaper, and I highly doubt that somebody who leaves Iowa to go to Marquette and be the editor at the school newspaper would be denied the scholarship and/or forced to sit out a year.

They're allowed to write in the bullpen, but none of their articles can go to print.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: lawdog77 on November 22, 2019, 05:56:42 AM
I don't know nuthin' about how music students get their schollies. But I do know that a lot of schools -- including Marquette -- give full rides to the editor of their school newspaper, and I highly doubt that somebody who leaves Iowa to go to Marquette and be the editor at the school newspaper would be denied the scholarship and/or forced to sit out a year.
Newspapers are sanskrit
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 22, 2019, 07:51:11 AM
“That will say anything/write a script to get a ruling.” Yeah...no.

Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 22, 2019, 08:04:15 AM
Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

Cases of doctors falsifying medical records to get a kid a transfer waiver?
OK. Let's see those many links.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 22, 2019, 08:07:51 AM
Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

It's also been going on with insurance companies shopping for doctors to deny disability benefits when doing their internal review.

He's right about Dr shopping, you can find a doctor to say anything. though his example is extremely partisan when there's 100s of non partisan ones he could've used.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 22, 2019, 08:22:42 AM
Cases of doctors falsifying medical records to get a kid a transfer waiver?
OK. Let's see those many links.


It's the usually slipperty slopism that he engages in.  Of course there are no links.  There is no evidence this is taking place. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MUfan12 on November 22, 2019, 08:37:44 AM
There is no evidence this is taking place.

I wouldn't say *no* evidence of doctor shopping.
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/esq.h-cdn.co/assets/17/05/640x420/gallery-1486058441-trumpdoc.jpeg?resize=320:*)
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 22, 2019, 08:55:24 AM
Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

Please do.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 22, 2019, 09:02:12 AM

It's the usually slipperty slopism that he engages in.  Of course there are no links.  There is no evidence this is taking place.

This is usually when Cheeks tells us he just had a meeting with a few of his many NCAA friends and they assure him that it happens all the time.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 22, 2019, 09:04:01 AM
Nope and the tuba player isn’t on tv, in a league, with thousands of people caring about them.  There are no record books going back 100 years on how Th e Tuba player played, etc.   The comparisons are ridiculous, I don’t know why people keep making them.

So your argument isn't that an athlete having to sit out a year is, in itself, a good policy. You're arguing that because an athlete is part of the multi-billion-dollar college athletic sports complex ... and because he or she plays for a team that appears on TV ... and because fans cheer on that athlete ... and because there are college sports statistics that go back a century ... because of all those things, he or she doesn't deserve to be treated the same as his or her non-athlete peers? Interesting.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: forgetful on November 22, 2019, 09:04:40 AM
Cases of doctors falsifying medical records to get a kid a transfer waiver?
OK. Let's see those many links.

Specifying it for "a transfer" would be challenging. But there are countless doctors who falsify medical records for diagnosis of ADHD, and other disorders for individuals to get extra time. There are also countless doctors, who will falsify a diagnosis so an individual can get an excuse to avoid a test, or avoid a function that they do not want to attend.

Why would these same people suddenly have a problem doing the same to support a kid who wanted to transfer?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 22, 2019, 09:06:33 AM
Can’t wait to see everyone turn on Dawson like people did Joey (who was ranked higher). Let’s pump the breaks on expectations and hype for kids who haven’t even started their senior seasons.

Joey wasnt ranked higher than Dawson.  Additionally if he whines n acrs like a bitch whike on the court he will likely have detractors.  Wrong on one statement half wrong on the other chicos, havent seen hoopaloop recently.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 22, 2019, 09:18:47 AM
Specifying it for "a transfer" would be challenging. But there are countless doctors who falsify medical records for diagnosis of ADHD, and other disorders for individuals to get extra time. There are also countless doctors, who will falsify a diagnosis so an individual can get an excuse to avoid a test, or avoid a function that they do not want to attend.

Why would these same people suddenly have a problem doing the same to support a kid who wanted to transfer?

Leave the goalpost shifting to Cheeks, please.
And no, there aren't "countless" doctors who risk their licenses and break the law to get students extra time to take the ACT/SAT (I presume that's one you're talking about). Stop with that nonsense.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 22, 2019, 09:33:39 AM
Leave the goalpost shifting to Cheeks, please.
And no, there aren't "countless" doctors who risk their licenses and break the law to get students extra time to take the ACT/SAT (I presume that's one you're talking about). Stop with that nonsense.

I think the term falsifying was being used when what he was going for was "are rather lax on their patients meeting the diagnostic criteria"

Opioids have been given out in massive amounts to patients with rather minor symptoms, adderall, Ritalin and concerts have been given out to kids with very minor cases or ADHD. Anxiety meds to people with minor phobias. And then the other side of insurance companies paying doctors to deny patient requests for medically necessary coverage.

Essentially point is shopping for a doctor does happen. They aren't falsifying (or I hope they aren't) but there are those that are happy to find a reason to diagnose something when they can. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 22, 2019, 09:46:51 AM
I think the term falsifying was being used when what he was going for was "are rather lax on their patients meeting the diagnostic criteria"

Opioids have been given out in massive amounts to patients with rather minor symptoms, adderall, Ritalin and concerts have been given out to kids with very minor cases or ADHD. Anxiety meds to people with minor phobias. And then the other side of insurance companies paying doctors to deny patient requests for medically necessary coverage.

Essentially point is shopping for a doctor does happen. They aren't falsifying (or I hope they aren't) but there are those that are happy to find a reason to diagnose something when they can.

This is all true... and so what?
How does "doctors have been lax when prescribing opioid painkillers" support the argument that "doctors give false diagnoses of depression all the time so a college basketball transfers don't have to sit out a year?"
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 22, 2019, 10:12:31 AM
This is all true... and so what?
How does "doctors have been lax when prescribing opioid painkillers" support the argument that "doctors give false diagnoses of depression all the time so a college basketball transfers don't have to sit out a year?"

I'm only arguing that doctor shopping for a diagnosis or treatment is a real thing and that if a person can snag Oxy or fentanyl lollipops for minor issues that I'm sure they could find a dr willing to diagnose a player with depression. It's just something that hit home to me so I wanted to go on a crusade and make sure people accepted the reality it happens.

I do not support his point that it happens all the time for athletes to gain eligibility or that it has even happened before.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: StillAWarrior on November 22, 2019, 10:20:16 AM
Cases of doctors falsifying medical records to get a kid a transfer waiver?
OK. Let's see those many links.

Not the same issue, but there were a lot of kids in the college admissions scandal who miraculously had medical waivers allowing them two full days to take the SAT/ACT which was a key way that the cheating occurred.  Also, there are plenty of instances of doctors being pretty easy giving prescriptions for medical marijuana.  And people who get questionable medical certification -- often online -- for emotional support animals.

I'm not arguing that Joey and/or MSU had any bogus medical documentation.  But, it does happen.  Quite a bit.  In many contexts.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Tha Hound on November 22, 2019, 10:31:02 AM
Can’t wait to see everyone turn on Dawson like people did Joey (who was ranked higher). Let’s pump the breaks on expectations and hype for kids who haven’t even started their senior seasons.

Wrong.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 22, 2019, 10:40:28 AM
Wrong.

Prior to breaking his foot he was I think that's what Billy Hoyle is referring to. Of course then you'd need to look at Dawson's ranking before mono or at the end of this year.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 22, 2019, 10:46:39 AM
He'd still be wrong.  Joey peaked at #32 in 247 rankings.  Dawson is #31 right now and peaked in the high 20s.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: 79Warrior on November 22, 2019, 10:55:03 AM

It's the usually slipperty slopism that he engages in.  Of course there are no links.  There is no evidence this is taking place.

He said there is so there is. After all, he is always right in his mind.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MUDPT on November 22, 2019, 11:01:01 AM
You can’t doctor shop in this case. Let’s say Player A wants to transfer because of depression.  I’m assuming the NCAA would look for records of depression at the old school. A medical professional can’t go in and back date a note saying, yes in February the student athlete came in with complaints of depression. They could, but it would immediately be flagged by whatever EMR service for review.

This is besides the obvious situation  where Player A gets a note from a doctor , and then Player A’s rival has a doctor that files an immediate complaint with the licensing board in that state. Too much headaches, physicians wouldn’t do it unless there was an actual diagnosis.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 22, 2019, 11:05:59 AM
All I’m hearing is “no doctor is making up a fake diagnosis or writing up an unnecessary prescription to get a student athlete cleared to play immediately after transfer.”

Sure I can find a doctor that might write me a prescription for a painkiller if I go into his office with a bruise and scream and scream and scream about how much pain I’m in and I can’t even breathe because of it.

But I’m not going to find a doctor who’s willing to testify to the NCAA that I had Tommy John surgery so I should get another year of college eligibility as a pitcher when I never had Tommy John surgery. Sorry, just not happening, regardless of what cheekaloop claims.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Tha Hound on November 22, 2019, 11:50:56 AM
He'd still be wrong.  Joey peaked at #32 in 247 rankings.  Dawson is #31 right now and peaked in the high 20s.

QFT
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jay Bee on November 22, 2019, 11:56:26 AM
You can’t doctor shop in this case. Let’s say Player A wants to transfer because of depression.  I’m assuming the NCAA would look for records of depression at the old school. A medical professional can’t go in and back date a note saying, yes in February the student athlete came in with complaints of depression. They could, but it would immediately be flagged by whatever EMR service for review.

This is besides the obvious situation  where Player A gets a note from a doctor , and then Player A’s rival has a doctor that files an immediate complaint with the licensing board in that state. Too much headaches, physicians wouldn’t do it unless there was an actual diagnosis.

tbh battling depression might be a good reason for the transfer rules as they currently are written. Take a year in residence. On scholarship. Without the worry of 'counting' competition.

#StudentFirst
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 22, 2019, 12:21:02 PM
QFT

You're correct, recruit rankings have a lot in common with quantum field theory.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 22, 2019, 02:15:33 PM
He'd still be wrong.  Joey peaked at #32 in 247 rankings.  Dawson is #31 right now and peaked in the high 20s.

ESPN has him at 45 - that's what I was referring to (all of the tweets were listing 45).

Still, pump the breaks.  We've seen far too many recruits come in hyped only to not live up to those lofty expectations (Dameon Mason...)
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 22, 2019, 02:18:57 PM
Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

yes, that does happen but the NCAA wouldn't use it in a waiver application since the applicant has to have contemporaneous medical documentation showing the original diagnosis and treatment and rehab notes during the injury, all dated. I guess a school could get a doctor to forge all of these documents but schools would be facing serious sanctions themselves if that happened, let alone the doctor.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 22, 2019, 02:42:55 PM
You can’t doctor shop in this case. Let’s say Player A wants to transfer because of depression.  I’m assuming the NCAA would look for records of depression at the old school. A medical professional can’t go in and back date a note saying, yes in February the student athlete came in with complaints of depression. They could, but it would immediately be flagged by whatever EMR service for review.

This is besides the obvious situation  where Player A gets a note from a doctor , and then Player A’s rival has a doctor that files an immediate complaint with the licensing board in that state. Too much headaches, physicians wouldn’t do it unless there was an actual diagnosis.

Sure you can in a depression situation.  A kid goes to the right “doctor” for an initial diagnosis and doctor says this young man clearly suffers from depression based on my clinical opinion.  Which, by the way, is a lot more squishy then saying this young guy suffers from cancer where cell biology is the absolute proof. 

Look at all the cases where one psychiatrist says patient A suffered from depression or whatever and Psychiatrist B says patient A does not.  Plenty of examples in criminal cases.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 22, 2019, 02:44:25 PM
Sure you can in a depression situation.  A kid goes to the right “doctor” for an initial diagnosis and doctor says this young man clearly suffers from depression based on my clinical opinion.  Which, by the way, is a lot more squishy then saying this young guy suffers from cancer where cell biology is the absolute proof. 

Look at all the cases where one psychiatrist says patient A suffered from depression or whatever and Psychiatrist B says patient A does not.  Plenty of examples in criminal cases.

Please provide those links for student athletes finding doctors to take diagnoses and prescriptions as promised. We can pick up the discussion from there.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 22, 2019, 02:48:29 PM
He said there is so there is. After all, he is always right in his mind.

LOL. And then when I provide the links, you guys go silent or I provide 8 links and you guys get hung up on one and ignore the others.

But I will happily provide links later today...I am enjoying my lunch at the moment.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 22, 2019, 02:49:53 PM
Please provide those links for student athletes finding doctors to take diagnoses and prescriptions as promised. We can pick up the discussion from there.


Everyone is aware that he makes things up and then ignores requests for evidence.  Building strawmen is simply easier.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 22, 2019, 02:57:04 PM
LOL. And then when I provide the links, you guys go silent or I provide 8 links and you guys get hung up on one and ignore the others.

But I will happily provide links later today...I am enjoying my lunch at the moment.

Too busy enjoying his lunch to do things like spend time on the internet.

Oh wait...

LOL indeed.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 22, 2019, 03:09:20 PM
ESPN has him at 45 - that's what I was referring to (all of the tweets were listing 45).

Still, pump the breaks.  We've seen far too many recruits come in hyped only to not live up to those lofty expectations (Dameon Mason...)

Or we can just let fans enjoy the fact their team just landed a highly ranked recruit without being the "Well, actually" guy.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 22, 2019, 03:58:50 PM
Sure you can in a depression situation.  A kid goes to the right “doctor” for an initial diagnosis and doctor says this young man clearly suffers from depression based on my clinical opinion.  Which, by the way, is a lot more squishy then saying this young guy suffers from cancer where cell biology is the absolute proof. 

Look at all the cases where one psychiatrist says patient A suffered from depression or whatever and Psychiatrist B says patient A does not.  Plenty of examples in criminal cases.

actually, you would need a diagnosis that was made at the previous school. And usually, in cases of mental health, one is only going to get a waiver if they transfer back home where there is a support system in place.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: GB Warrior on November 22, 2019, 04:13:17 PM
actually, you would need a diagnosis that was made at the previous school. And usually, in cases of mental health, one is only going to get a waiver if they transfer back home where there is a support system in place.

I dunno, if you met my family, you'd definitely give me a waiver for moving farther away
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jables1604 on November 22, 2019, 05:30:14 PM
LOL. And then when I provide the links, you guys go silent or I provide 8 links and you guys get hung up on one and ignore the others.

But I will happily provide links later today...I am enjoying my lunch at the moment.

Translation: Let me spend the rest of my day searching every corner of the internet to find an article that that says nothing close to what I claimed and hope no one actually reads the link and calls me out on it...
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Jay Bee on November 23, 2019, 10:49:48 AM
actually, you would need a diagnosis that was made at the previous school. And usually, in cases of mental health, one is only going to get a waiver if they transfer back home where there is a support system in place.

State the basis for your claim!
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 23, 2019, 11:39:16 AM
Please provide those links for student athletes finding doctors to take diagnoses and prescriptions as promised. We can pick up the discussion from there.

Lol.  I said links of medical fraud by doctors which are used for disability fraud ( huge cases in Calif and New York with cops and firemen), etc.  No reason it cannot be done in these situations.

By far the easiest is mental health.  Differ psychiatrists diagnosis same patient differently.  Find someone sympathetic to the cause, and quite frankly they don’t even have to commit fraud to do it..becomes a clinical difference of opinion.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 23, 2019, 11:46:43 AM
Translation: Let me spend the rest of my day searching every corner of the internet to find an article that that says nothing close to what I claimed and hope no one actually reads the link and calls me out on it...

Nope.  More like spending 5 minutes, providing many links that back the claim and a few that are on the margins and that’s the only ones you focus on....ignoring the slam dunk ones.  But good try.

Mental health in particular...already misdiagnosed so it would be easier to find someone sympathetic without any real ethical problems.  Doctor shop.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/study-most-people-diagnosed-with-depression-do-not-actually-meet-criteria/275436/

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 23, 2019, 11:48:22 AM
Lol.  I said links of medical fraud by doctors which are used for disability fraud ( huge cases in Calif and New York with cops and firemen), etc.  No reason it cannot be done in these situations.

But you can’t find any. Classic straw man.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: forgetful on November 23, 2019, 12:02:58 PM
Leave the goalpost shifting to Cheeks, please.
And no, there aren't "countless" doctors who risk their licenses and break the law to get students extra time to take the ACT/SAT (I presume that's one you're talking about). Stop with that nonsense.

As someone that works with students daily, you are wrong.

They all know lists of doctors that are willing to do it provided you pay in cash. For ACT/SAT/MCAT/LSAT, regular exams/courses, to get out of class requirements, etc.

But like I said, finding an example specific to what Chicos was claiming is largely impossible. But I guarantee you if you wanted to go down that route you wouldn't have a problem finding the doctor, and if you go around any college campus and ask kids about shady doctors that would do so, they will refer you to one.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 23, 2019, 01:15:50 PM
As someone that works with students daily, you are wrong.

They all know lists of doctors that are willing to do it provided you pay in cash. For ACT/SAT/MCAT/LSAT, regular exams/courses, to get out of class requirements, etc.

But like I said, finding an example specific to what Chicos was claiming is largely impossible. But I guarantee you if you wanted to go down that route you wouldn't have a problem finding the doctor, and if you go around any college campus and ask kids about shady doctors that would do so, they will refer you to one.

Wow. Cheeks has a guy harvesting his straw for him!
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2019, 06:02:03 PM
State the basis for your claim!

Personal experience
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 24, 2019, 10:21:09 AM
But you can’t find any. Classic straw man.

Until a year ago I could never find any celebrities paying huge sums of money so that their kids were on rowing teams to get into college....therefore it never happened, right?  LOL

My point was then and now, depression is one area that is more easily “misdiagnosed” and without too much effort could be used by finding the right doctor to do so.  The amount of fraud we have by people in all walks of life is insane, why would this be any different?

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 24, 2019, 10:21:39 AM
As someone that works with students daily, you are wrong.

They all know lists of doctors that are willing to do it provided you pay in cash. For ACT/SAT/MCAT/LSAT, regular exams/courses, to get out of class requirements, etc.

But like I said, finding an example specific to what Chicos was claiming is largely impossible. But I guarantee you if you wanted to go down that route you wouldn't have a problem finding the doctor, and if you go around any college campus and ask kids about shady doctors that would do so, they will refer you to one.

Yup
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 24, 2019, 10:23:59 AM
Wow. Cheeks has a guy harvesting his straw for him!


Good Lord, are you really denying this stuff happens?  How the hell do you think it is so easy for kids to get adderral legitimately....or hey....heard of the opioid crisis?  Plenty of doctors out there that will do lots of things for people at the right price.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 24, 2019, 10:28:28 AM

Good Lord, are you really denying this stuff happens?  How the hell do you think it is so easy for kids to get adderral legitimately....or hey....heard of the opioid crisis?  Plenty of doctors out there that will do lots of things for people at the right price.


No sh*t.

Show me a case where someone was granted a transfer waiver based on a false doctors report. Just one.

This is a classic case of you globalizing something that hasn’t shown to be a problem. At all. Just because you don’t like the idea of granting waivers.

Just ridiculous.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: connie on November 24, 2019, 10:51:35 AM
I doubt you are going to find a published example.  I also have no doubt that it has happened in the past.  You can't win by calling him out, because he doesn't care.  He is getting the attention he craves.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 24, 2019, 11:21:20 AM
As someone that works with students daily, you are wrong.

They all know lists of doctors that are willing to do it provided you pay in cash. For ACT/SAT/MCAT/LSAT, regular exams/courses, to get out of class requirements, etc.

But like I said, finding an example specific to what Chicos was claiming is largely impossible. But I guarantee you if you wanted to go down that route you wouldn't have a problem finding the doctor, and if you go around any college campus and ask kids about shady doctors that would do so, they will refer you to one.

Nobody here is denying that there aren't some shady doctors that won't do unethical/illegal things for a buck.

But that is not what was being discussed here. Cheeks specifically said he would be "happy to provide many links to doctors caught" writing scripts or doing other illegal/unethical things to help a kid get an NCAA transfer waiver. The discussion was never about the existence of unethical doctors until you rushed in to Cheeks' aid and teleported the goalposts to a different area code.

And I guarantee you're wrong (I mean, as long as we're tossing around worthless guarantees).

p.s. Here we are 2+ days later and Cheeks has yet to provide any of those many links he promised.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on November 24, 2019, 11:41:48 AM
The trajectory of this thread:

(http://readeroffictions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/train-off-the-rails.gif)
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: harryp on November 24, 2019, 12:15:20 PM
His request was denied
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 24, 2019, 03:38:34 PM
Nobody here is denying that there aren't some shady doctors that won't do unethical/illegal things for a buck.

But that is not what was being discussed here. Cheeks specifically said he would be "happy to provide many links to doctors caught" writing scripts or doing other illegal/unethical things to help a kid get an NCAA transfer waiver. The discussion was never about the existence of unethical doctors until you rushed in to Cheeks' aid and teleported the goalposts to a different area code.

And I guarantee you're wrong (I mean, as long as we're tossing around worthless guarantees).

p.s. Here we are 2+ days later and Cheeks has yet to provide any of those many links he promised.

Bulls hat.

I said I can happily provide links to doctors writing illegal scripts...and fraud, etc.  show me where I said specifically about doctors and student athletes.  Talk about moving the goalposts...classic.  Go to the original post where I said it...come on Chuckles, this is bad even for you.

As I said, can do this all day with doctor fraud

https://www.statnews.com/2019/04/17/doctors-charged-illegal-prescription-opioid-crackdown/


https://www.fox10tv.com/news/mobile-doctor-charged-with-writing-illegal-prescriptions/article_04bd1726-d8d3-11e9-9ab0-5f07ecc1e4c9.html


100’s of these...if it can happen there, it can happen in the situation I described.  More importantly the ease to do it with depression diagnosis wouldn’t even require a doctor putting themselves at risk.  But unlike what Wadesworld said, doctors have, indeed, written illegal scripts many times...above examples are just the ones actually caught.  How many are not?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 24, 2019, 03:58:25 PM
Until a year ago I could never find any celebrities paying huge sums of money so that their kids were on rowing teams to get into college....therefore it never happened, right?  LOL

My point was then and now, depression is one area that is more easily “misdiagnosed” and without too much effort could be used by finding the right doctor to do so.  The amount of fraud we have by people in all walks of life is insane, why would this be any different?

You said you would provide a number of articles showing proof of these college athletes getting doctors to lie about their health to give them immediate eligibility.  Now you're claiming that because you don't have the articles that you promised to prove it it happens anyway?

Nice.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 24, 2019, 05:10:37 PM
Bulls hat.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/63bd85530cf173a0674988b59efbb115/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Benny B on November 24, 2019, 08:41:07 PM

Good Lord, are you really denying this stuff happens?  How the hell do you think it is so easy for kids to get adderral legitimately....or hey....heard of the opioid crisis?  Plenty of doctors out there that will do lots of things for people at the right price.

Dumbass. 

Adderall isn’t an opioid. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: panda on November 24, 2019, 08:52:39 PM
Bulls hat.

I said I can happily provide links to doctors writing illegal scripts...and fraud, etc.  show me where I said specifically about doctors and student athletes.  Talk about moving the goalposts...classic.  Go to the original post where I said it...come on Chuckles, this is bad even for you.

As I said, can do this all day with doctor fraud

https://www.statnews.com/2019/04/17/doctors-charged-illegal-prescription-opioid-crackdown/


https://www.fox10tv.com/news/mobile-doctor-charged-with-writing-illegal-prescriptions/article_04bd1726-d8d3-11e9-9ab0-5f07ecc1e4c9.html


100’s of these...if it can happen there, it can happen in the situation I described.  More importantly the ease to do it with depression diagnosis wouldn’t even require a doctor putting themselves at risk.  But unlike what Wadesworld said, doctors have, indeed, written illegal scripts many times...above examples are just the ones actually caught.  How many are not?

You’re a joke
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 24, 2019, 10:25:53 PM
One link about a doctor providing a false report to ensure that a college athlete has immediate eligibility, hoopaloop.

Provide it, and I'll tip my hat to you. Don't, and all you are doing is talkin' out your bunghole as usual.

And a legit link about a legit case of it ... not like the pretend poll you tried to pass off as "proof" that most Americans are against athletes profiting off their NIL when the exact opposite is true (and decisively so).
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 09:34:57 AM

No sh*t.

Show me a case where someone was granted a transfer waiver based on a false doctors report. Just one.

This is a classic case of you globalizing something that hasn’t shown to be a problem. At all. Just because you don’t like the idea of granting waivers.

Just ridiculous.

I can absolutely tell you of cases where the ncaa is highly skeptical of the reasons...talk to the ncaa.  They know the sh*t people pull all the time in every walk of life and this is no different.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 09:35:58 AM
You said you would provide a number of articles showing proof of these college athletes getting doctors to lie about their health to give them immediate eligibility.  Now you're claiming that because you don't have the articles that you promised to prove it it happens anyway?

Nice.

I said I would provide a number of articles about doctor shopping, which I did.  But sure, let's be naive and say it never happens with college athletes.  Hilarious.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 09:37:05 AM
Dumbass. 

Adderall isn’t an opioid.

Who said it is?  I didn’t.  There's a reason I said "OR HEY" in my sentence...new idea, not linking Adderall with opioids, but showing another example of prescriptions being given out like candy by doctors. My point is you can doctor shop for adderall like crazy and students do it.  The best one is claiming ADHD.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 25, 2019, 09:44:19 AM
Who said it is?  I didn’t.  My point is you can doctor shop for adderall like crazy and students do it.  The best one is claiming ADHD.

Has an NCAA athlete ever been granted a transfer waiver because of ADHD?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 09:53:23 AM
Has an NCAA athlete ever been granted a transfer waiver because of ADHD?

I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope.  I said doctor shopping goes on in this country all the time.  Whether it is for opioids, or Adderall, or Viagra.  Whether it is firemen or police officers in California, New York, etc to get extra disability (tons of articles on this), whether it is Joe blow or Sally blow...people scam the system....for insurance, for workman's comp, for "slipping" on the floor, or pretending to be mugged going to Subway in Chicago at 2:00am...whatever...people do this.  ALL THE TIME.  This is why companies have fraud units.  This is why the gov't does.  This is why the NCAA has processes to make sure this crap isn't happening...because it is.

Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 25, 2019, 09:56:36 AM
Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.

Harbaugh backs your unproveable doctor-shopping theory = Harbaugh good.

Harbaugh goes against you wanting to punish athletes who transfer = Harbaugh bad.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 10:01:01 AM
Harbaugh backs your unproveable doctor-shopping theory = Harbaugh good.

Harbaugh goes against you wanting to punish athletes who transfer = Harbaugh bad.

LOL.  We can play this game all day if you wish.  Maybe you should post a Thomas Jefferson quote about the media supporting you, and I post a Thomas Jefferson quote trashing the media for what they do.

Jefferson backs your idea of journalism = Jefferson good

Jefferson goes against your idea of journalism = Jefferson bad

LOL.  Next thing Pakuni will tell me 10,000 economists agree and when 10,000 other economists don't agree...the crickets start chirping.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 25, 2019, 10:14:04 AM
I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope. 

If there are no known cases of a kid getting a transfer waiver over ADHD (legit or not) then why are you bringing up ADHD in a discussion about transfer waivers?

(It's a rhetorical question, btw. We all know why.)
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 25, 2019, 10:18:24 AM
I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope.  I said doctor shopping goes on in this country all the time.  Whether it is for opioids, or Adderall, or Viagra.  Whether it is firemen or police officers in California, New York, etc to get extra disability (tons of articles on this), whether it is Joe blow or Sally blow...people scam the system....for insurance, for workman's comp, for "slipping" on the floor, or pretending to be mugged going to Subway in Chicago at 2:00am...whatever...people do this.  ALL THE TIME.  This is why companies have fraud units.  This is why the gov't does.  This is why the NCAA has processes to make sure this crap isn't happening...because it is.

Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.

I think everyone would agree that human nature is such that whatever the system SOME people will try to game it. And some will succeed. I'm all for trying to catch the "abusers" but why punish those with legitimate claims because of the bad guys? Some people abuse alcohol. Should it be banned for all? You're on a legitimately slippery slope with your argument.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 10:20:39 AM
If there are no known cases of a kid getting a transfer waiver over ADHD (legit or not) then why are you bringing up ADHD in a discussion about transfer waivers?

(It's a rhetorical question, btw. We all know why.)

It was an example of how easy it is to doctor shop for prescription drugs....very simple, not sure why you missed it.  I could use any number of other examples, that's the one I chose.  Just as it would not be hard to find a mental health professional to say, "yup, you are suffering from _____ and here's your note so you can transfer".  It's exactly why Harbaugh and others brought it up.  Already happening, and the NCAA is now put into a position of questioning one doctor vs another.  Of course, this is exactly what the anti-NCAA folks want anyway...that way they can say the NCAA shouldn't be involved in these decisions at all....LET EVERYONE TRANSFER WHENEVER.  This is right out of the playbook and the end game here.  Sultan, Rico and others can have a celebration as it totally annihilates lower and mid level schools, and the haves become even more of the beneficiaries. 

CUE the "most kids transfer down" stats....which of course almost no one gives a damn about.  It's the raiding of talent from other schools to move up that destroys the system.  But hey...some of you all love that stuff.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MUDPT on November 25, 2019, 10:31:24 AM
I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope.  I said doctor shopping goes on in this country all the time.  Whether it is for opioids, or Adderall, or Viagra.  Whether it is firemen or police officers in California, New York, etc to get extra disability (tons of articles on this), whether it is Joe blow or Sally blow...people scam the system....for insurance, for workman's comp, for "slipping" on the floor, or pretending to be mugged going to Subway in Chicago at 2:00am...whatever...people do this.  ALL THE TIME.  This is why companies have fraud units.  This is why the gov't does.  This is why the NCAA has processes to make sure this crap isn't happening...because it is.

Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.

I’m guessing you’ve never had to give a medical deposition in court or in front of lawyers before.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 10:41:34 AM
I’m guessing you’ve never had to give a medical deposition in court or in front of lawyers before.

I've had to give multiple depositions over the years, but not on medical. 


Let me ask you, why are so many mental health care cases misdiagnosed?  Could it be because that discipline is not an exact science?  It is based on opinion and two highly qualified mental health care professionals can have different viewpoints about the same case?  Thus, if you agree with this statement (and the literature supports how often people are misdiagnosed) how hard would it be for someone to visit multiple doctors until they get the diagnosis they want, especially when it is largely opinion based?  It's not binary where you have cancer or you don't.  Mental health diagnosis are nto always that clear cut.

Look how often ADHD is misdiagnosed instead of depression as just one example. Anxiety, bipolar, OCD...misdiagnosed per the literature at a pretty good clip.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 25, 2019, 12:01:39 PM
I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope.  I said doctor shopping goes on in this country all the time.  Whether it is for opioids, or Adderall, or Viagra.  Whether it is firemen or police officers in California, New York, etc to get extra disability (tons of articles on this), whether it is Joe blow or Sally blow...people scam the system....for insurance, for workman's comp, for "slipping" on the floor, or pretending to be mugged going to Subway in Chicago at 2:00am...whatever...people do this.  ALL THE TIME.  This is why companies have fraud units.  This is why the gov't does.  This is why the NCAA has processes to make sure this crap isn't happening...because it is.

Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.

People doctor shop so they can pretend to be mugged going to the subway at 2:00 AM? What?

I think we have our own doctor shopper on MUScoop!

Anyways, I’ll take those multiple articles on doctors making up diagnoses or writing unnecessary prescriptions to get a transfer waiver anytime now. M
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Tha Hound on November 25, 2019, 12:10:41 PM
Lock this crap already
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 12:22:49 PM
People doctor shop so they can pretend to be mugged going to the subway at 2:00 AM? What?

I think we have our own doctor shopper on MUScoop!

Anyways, I’ll take those multiple articles on doctors making up diagnoses or writing unnecessary prescriptions to get a transfer waiver anytime now. M

Again, your inability to read.  NO, people commit FRAUD in many ways...like pretending to get mugged going to Subway at 2 in the morning and FRAUDULENTLY claiming you were mugged.  Or fraudulenting getting benefits.  Or fraudulently putting in for disability for insurance.  All kinds of ways it is done. 
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Pakuni on November 25, 2019, 12:49:36 PM
Cheeks going to go out uttering "Jessie" the way Kane did "Rosebud."
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 25, 2019, 12:58:27 PM
Are there any threads on muscoop that chicos has not ruined? IF so could someone plz point me in the right direction?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Benny B on November 25, 2019, 02:36:22 PM
Who said it is?  I didn’t.  There's a reason I said "OR HEY" in my sentence...new idea, not linking Adderall with opioids, but showing another example of prescriptions being given out like candy by doctors. My point is you can doctor shop for adderall like crazy and students do it.  The best one is claiming ADHD.

I haven’t heard someone talk so much about giving drugs out like candy since Michael Jackson. 

I also haven’t seen someone walk backwards so elegantly since, well, Michael Jackson.

Just out of curiosity... you haven’t been hanging around Macaulay Caulkin lately or taking young boys to theme parks?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MUDPT on November 25, 2019, 02:51:51 PM
I've had to give multiple depositions over the years, but not on medical. 


Let me ask you, why are so many mental health care cases misdiagnosed?  Could it be because that discipline is not an exact science?  It is based on opinion and two highly qualified mental health care professionals can have different viewpoints about the same case?  Thus, if you agree with this statement (and the literature supports how often people are misdiagnosed) how hard would it be for someone to visit multiple doctors until they get the diagnosis they want, especially when it is largely opinion based?  It's not binary where you have cancer or you don't.  Mental health diagnosis are nto always that clear cut.

Look how often ADHD is misdiagnosed instead of depression as just one example. Anxiety, bipolar, OCD...misdiagnosed per the literature at a pretty good clip.

There are gray areas for mental health cases and all medicine (see Leonard, Kawhi).  The problem is, that we have already established, you kind of have to have these things happen to you BEFORE you announce you are transferring.  Sure you could announce you are transferring, then go find a  physician for some diagnosis and then it would looks super suspicious and never be approved.  I work with hundreds of medical professionals every day and the idea that one of them would risk their medical license so a college student doesn't have to take a transfer year, is ludicrous.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 25, 2019, 04:50:28 PM
I haven’t heard someone talk so much about giving drugs out like candy since Michael Jackson. 

I also haven’t seen someone walk backwards so elegantly since, well, Michael Jackson.

Just out of curiosity... you haven’t been hanging around Macaulay Caulkin lately or taking young boys to theme parks?

Dammit, I just spit tea all over my screen.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: BallBoy on November 25, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
There are gray areas for mental health cases and all medicine (see Leonard, Kawhi).  The problem is, that we have already established, you kind of have to have these things happen to you BEFORE you announce you are transferring.  Sure you could announce you are transferring, then go find a  physician for some diagnosis and then it would looks super suspicious and never be approved.  I work with hundreds of medical professionals every day and the idea that one of them would risk their medical license so a college student doesn't have to take a transfer year, is ludicrous.

Sorry but have to disagree. Doctors are doing a lot of things in order to keep patients and maintain their life style.  Here is an article from earlier in the year which tracked opioid prescriptions from 2010 to 2016. Notice that there were significant prescriptions over the recommended dosages for all types of surgeries. Also noticed that it peaked in 2010 which is when we were coming out of a downturn.

I don’t think every doctor or the vast majority would take the risk but you only need to find one that will and there are those associated to the programs who would do it for the team.

Also note there were two current famous doctors cases that would give athletes drugs in order to provide “treatments”. 

https://www.statnews.com/2019/06/21/surgeons-overprescribed-opioids-analysis-shows/

Pain and mental health are two gray areas which are hard to monitor.

Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 07:30:01 PM
I haven’t heard someone talk so much about giving drugs out like candy since Michael Jackson. 

I also haven’t seen someone walk backwards so elegantly since, well, Michael Jackson.

Just out of curiosity... you haven’t been hanging around Macaulay Caulkin lately or taking young boys to theme parks?

I stay away from young boys and girls, I can’t even get the deal with following 17 year old boys on twitter and Instagram like some of you do.   :D.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 25, 2019, 07:30:47 PM
Sorry but have to disagree. Doctors are doing a lot of things in order to keep patients and maintain their life style.  Here is an article from earlier in the year which tracked opioid prescriptions from 2010 to 2016. Notice that there were significant prescriptions over the recommended dosages for all types of surgeries. Also noticed that it peaked in 2010 which is when we were coming out of a downturn.

I don’t think every doctor or the vast majority would take the risk but you only need to find one that will and there are those associated to the programs who would do it for the team.

Also note there were two current famous doctors cases that would give athletes drugs in order to provide “treatments”. 

https://www.statnews.com/2019/06/21/surgeons-overprescribed-opioids-analysis-shows/

Pain and mental health are two gray areas which are hard to monitor.

Yup
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: wadesworld on November 25, 2019, 08:29:43 PM
I stay away from young boys and girls, I can’t even get the deal with following 17 year old boys on twitter and Instagram like some of you do.   :D.

I neither avoid nor seek out young boys, girls, or 17 year old boys. None of the above are really an issue for me.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 25, 2019, 09:49:03 PM
LOL.  We can play this game all day if you wish.  Maybe you should post a Thomas Jefferson quote about the media supporting you, and I post a Thomas Jefferson quote trashing the media for what they do.

Jefferson backs your idea of journalism = Jefferson good

Jefferson goes against your idea of journalism = Jefferson bad

LOL.  Next thing Pakuni will tell me 10,000 economists agree and when 10,000 other economists don't agree...the crickets start chirping.

Nicely shifted goalposts. As usual. This is what you do when you've got nothing except baseless claims.

Oh, and I agree with Harbaugh's second point. So should any reasonable person who values personal freedom.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: 79Warrior on November 26, 2019, 08:26:54 PM
Personal freedom?  So a journalist should be able to write whatever they want...false, true, whatever....because they are exercising their personal freedom.  A player, should be able to leave after game 5 and transfer to a school and play the next week....cuz personal freedom.  A person should be able to not pay taxes...cuz personal freedom.


Or, I don’t know, organizations, companies, gov’t, can have rules / requiremenrs / laws that still allow personal freedom without total chaos.  Hmm.

Why don’t you give your politics a rest.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MU82 on November 26, 2019, 09:32:38 PM
Personal freedom?  So a journalist should be able to write whatever they want...false, true, whatever....because they are exercising their personal freedom.  A player, should be able to leave after game 5 and transfer to a school and play the next week....cuz personal freedom.  A person should be able to not pay taxes...cuz personal freedom.


Or, I don’t know, organizations, companies, gov’t, can have rules / requiremenrs / laws that still allow personal freedom without total chaos.  Hmm.

Mr. Goalpost Shifter strikes again.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on November 26, 2019, 09:34:53 PM
Joey does not have what it takes for the association.   He will be gone from that discussion like a fart in the wind when he comes back
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 26, 2019, 10:42:28 PM
Why don’t you give your politics a rest.

It wasn’t political, apparently personal freedom counts but only so far...right?  At what point does the personal freedom claptrap argument lose its wings?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: real chili 83 on November 27, 2019, 07:17:11 AM
In before the lock.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MUDPT on November 27, 2019, 07:29:43 AM
Sorry but have to disagree. Doctors are doing a lot of things in order to keep patients and maintain their life style.  Here is an article from earlier in the year which tracked opioid prescriptions from 2010 to 2016. Notice that there were significant prescriptions over the recommended dosages for all types of surgeries. Also noticed that it peaked in 2010 which is when we were coming out of a downturn.

I don’t think every doctor or the vast majority would take the risk but you only need to find one that will and there are those associated to the programs who would do it for the team.

Also note there were two current famous doctors cases that would give athletes drugs in order to provide “treatments”. 

https://www.statnews.com/2019/06/21/surgeons-overprescribed-opioids-analysis-shows/

Pain and mental health are two gray areas which are hard to monitor.

Most physicians want nothing to do with patients addicted to opioids. They cause lots of headaches. And they don’t make any extra income for prescriptions. The article you cited is good, there are lots of problems. The order sets are a systemic problem where you have situations like my son’s who got liquid opioids ordered after his tonsils were removed. However, most physicians make no money in surgical follow ups. That cost is in the surgery. Doesn’t matter if you follow up once or 100 times, so again they aren’t “maintaining their lifestyle” by prescribing opioids.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: TSmith34 on November 27, 2019, 10:00:54 AM
It wasn’t political, apparently personal freedom counts but only so far...right?  At what point does the personal freedom claptrap argument lose its wings?
If you shut down yet another thread do you win a set of steak knives or something?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: forgetful on November 27, 2019, 10:19:13 AM
NM
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Cheeks on November 27, 2019, 12:01:08 PM
If you shut down yet another thread do you win a set of steak knives or something?

Since you falsely accused me of shutting down an investing thread and still haven’t apologized or retracted that error...
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: MUEng92 on November 27, 2019, 12:24:16 PM
It's funny...or sad, that all of you who constantly argue with and throw insults at Chicos think that the rest of us only think he is annoying.

I will reinstate my request for threads to be renamed when they stop having anything to do with the title of the thread.  Over the years I would get so much of my time back not clicking on threads only to be reminded that the collective schmucks have taken over AGAIN and the title, "doesn't mean what you think it means (anymore)"
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: jesmu84 on November 27, 2019, 12:53:56 PM
Most physicians want nothing to do with patients addicted to opioids. They cause lots of headaches. And they don’t make any extra income for prescriptions. The article you cited is good, there are lots of problems. The order sets are a systemic problem where you have situations like my son’s who got liquid opioids ordered after his tonsils were removed. However, most physicians make no money in surgical follow ups. That cost is in the surgery. Doesn’t matter if you follow up once or 100 times, so again they aren’t “maintaining their lifestyle” by prescribing opioids.

Don't you love when you are an expert in your field and people don't believe your statements on said field?
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: StillAWarrior on November 27, 2019, 01:27:26 PM
It's funny...or sad, that all of you who constantly argue with and throw insults at Chicos think that the rest of us only think he is annoying.

Thank you.  Paraphrasing something my parents used to say to me when I was younger, "It takes two to kill a thread."
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: barfolomew on November 27, 2019, 05:01:22 PM
It's funny...or sad, that all of you who constantly argue with and throw insults at Chicos think that the rest of us only think he is annoying.

I will reinstate my request for threads to be renamed when they stop having anything to do with the title of the thread.  Over the years I would get so much of my time back not clicking on threads only to be reminded that the collective schmucks have taken over AGAIN and the title, "doesn't mean what you think it means (anymore)"

Seconded.
The Vezini Amendment would require the appending of the word "Inconceivable" to end of such thread titles.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Benny B on November 27, 2019, 05:01:51 PM
It's funny...or sad, that all of you who constantly argue with and throw insults at Chicos think that the rest of us only think he is annoying.

It’s funny... or sad, that on many occasions, it may not be any of us doing the arguing or insult throwing.
Title: Re: Joey applied for waiver
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on November 27, 2019, 09:38:19 PM
(http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/4257474.jpg)