Joey applied for waiver

[wadesworld]

You can find doctors to write notes for all kinds of stuff...called doctor shopping.

"That will say anything/write a script to get a ruling." Yeah...no.

[Heisenberg]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28131369/tom-izzo-leaves-board-ncaa-denies-waiver-joey-hauser

Hauser transferred to Michigan State from Marquette in May and requested a waiver from the NCAA to be eligible immediately instead of sitting out the season, per usual transfer rules. The NCAA recently changed its waiver policy to give more undergraduate transfers a chance to become immediately eligible to compete.

"We opened Pandora's box and maybe it will never be shut," Izzo said.

Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields is among the football players who received a waiver to play in 2019 after transferring following the 2018 season. Earlier this week, the NCAA cleared forward Gabe Osabuohien to play at West Virginia this season after approving his waiver request and TCU got a boost when Ohio State transfer Jaedon LeDee was granted a waiver.

Izzo did not reference any specific decision the NCAA has made, but he said the governing body is relying on people outside of the game to make critical decisions.

"Joey didn't come here because he thought he was going to play right away," the coach said. "There was not even any talk about that. But as waivers started to pile up as the summer went on, Joey and his family felt they had a strong case. And I don't really appreciate when some people are getting waivers, and other people aren't.

"All the research I've seen, the consistency and the guidelines for this seem absurd. There's arbitrary decisions being made. And what bothers me the most is they're being made by individuals who don't really understand what's going on in our game."

He said he has tried to be a part of coming up with solutions as part of the NABC, but stepped down from his role because he is fed up.

"I just don't believe I want to be dealing with these problems and banging my head against the wall," he said.

[Billy Hoyle]

If Joey didn't leave we wouldn't have Dawson.

Granted, if Joey never came we might still have Sam and Dawson.

Can't wait to see everyone turn on Dawson like people did Joey (who was ranked higher). Let's pump the breaks on expectations and hype for kids who haven't even started their senior seasons.

[brewcity77]

I don't know nuthin' about how music students get their schollies. But I do know that a lot of schools -- including Marquette -- give full rides to the editor of their school newspaper, and I highly doubt that somebody who leaves Iowa to go to Marquette and be the editor at the school newspaper would be denied the scholarship and/or forced to sit out a year.

They're allowed to write in the bullpen, but none of their articles can go to print.

[lawdog77]

I don't know nuthin' about how music students get their schollies. But I do know that a lot of schools -- including Marquette -- give full rides to the editor of their school newspaper, and I highly doubt that somebody who leaves Iowa to go to Marquette and be the editor at the school newspaper would be denied the scholarship and/or forced to sit out a year.

Newspapers are sanskrit

[Cheeks]

"That will say anything/write a script to get a ruling." Yeah...no.

Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

[Pakuni]

Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

Cases of doctors falsifying medical records to get a kid a transfer waiver?
OK. Let's see those many links.

[Galway Eagle]

Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

It's also been going on with insurance companies shopping for doctors to deny disability benefits when doing their internal review.

He's right about Dr shopping, you can find a doctor to say anything. though his example is extremely partisan when there's 100s of non partisan ones he could've used.

[The Sultan]

Cases of doctors falsifying medical records to get a kid a transfer waiver?
OK. Let's see those many links.

It's the usually slipperty slopism that he engages in.  Of course there are no links.  There is no evidence this is taking place. 

[MUfan12]

There is no evidence this is taking place.

I wouldn't say *no* evidence of doctor shopping.

[wadesworld]

Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

Please do.

[Pakuni]

It's the usually slipperty slopism that he engages in.  Of course there are no links.  There is no evidence this is taking place.

This is usually when Cheeks tells us he just had a meeting with a few of his many NCAA friends and they assure him that it happens all the time.

[MU82]

Nope and the tuba player isn't on tv, in a league, with thousands of people caring about them.  There are no record books going back 100 years on how Th e Tuba player played, etc.   The comparisons are ridiculous, I don't know why people keep making them.

So your argument isn't that an athlete having to sit out a year is, in itself, a good policy. You're arguing that because an athlete is part of the multi-billion-dollar college athletic sports complex ... and because he or she plays for a team that appears on TV ... and because fans cheer on that athlete ... and because there are college sports statistics that go back a century ... because of all those things, he or she doesn't deserve to be treated the same as his or her non-athlete peers? Interesting.

[forgetful]

Cases of doctors falsifying medical records to get a kid a transfer waiver?
OK. Let's see those many links.

Specifying it for "a transfer" would be challenging. But there are countless doctors who falsify medical records for diagnosis of ADHD, and other disorders for individuals to get extra time. There are also countless doctors, who will falsify a diagnosis so an individual can get an excuse to avoid a test, or avoid a function that they do not want to attend.

Why would these same people suddenly have a problem doing the same to support a kid who wanted to transfer?

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Can't wait to see everyone turn on Dawson like people did Joey (who was ranked higher). Let's pump the breaks on expectations and hype for kids who haven't even started their senior seasons.

Joey wasnt ranked higher than Dawson.  Additionally if he whines n acrs like a bitch whike on the court he will likely have detractors.  Wrong on one statement half wrong on the other chicos, havent seen hoopaloop recently.

[Pakuni]

Specifying it for "a transfer" would be challenging. But there are countless doctors who falsify medical records for diagnosis of ADHD, and other disorders for individuals to get extra time. There are also countless doctors, who will falsify a diagnosis so an individual can get an excuse to avoid a test, or avoid a function that they do not want to attend.

Why would these same people suddenly have a problem doing the same to support a kid who wanted to transfer?

Leave the goalpost shifting to Cheeks, please.
And no, there aren't "countless" doctors who risk their licenses and break the law to get students extra time to take the ACT/SAT (I presume that's one you're talking about). Stop with that nonsense.

[Galway Eagle]

Leave the goalpost shifting to Cheeks, please.
And no, there aren't "countless" doctors who risk their licenses and break the law to get students extra time to take the ACT/SAT (I presume that's one you're talking about). Stop with that nonsense.

I think the term falsifying was being used when what he was going for was "are rather lax on their patients meeting the diagnostic criteria"

Opioids have been given out in massive amounts to patients with rather minor symptoms, adderall, Ritalin and concerts have been given out to kids with very minor cases or ADHD. Anxiety meds to people with minor phobias. And then the other side of insurance companies paying doctors to deny patient requests for medically necessary coverage.

Essentially point is shopping for a doctor does happen. They aren't falsifying (or I hope they aren't) but there are those that are happy to find a reason to diagnose something when they can. 

[Pakuni]

I think the term falsifying was being used when what he was going for was "are rather lax on their patients meeting the diagnostic criteria"

Opioids have been given out in massive amounts to patients with rather minor symptoms, adderall, Ritalin and concerts have been given out to kids with very minor cases or ADHD. Anxiety meds to people with minor phobias. And then the other side of insurance companies paying doctors to deny patient requests for medically necessary coverage.

Essentially point is shopping for a doctor does happen. They aren't falsifying (or I hope they aren't) but there are those that are happy to find a reason to diagnose something when they can.

This is all true... and so what?
How does "doctors have been lax when prescribing opioid painkillers" support the argument that "doctors give false diagnoses of depression all the time so a college basketball transfers don't have to sit out a year?"

[Galway Eagle]

This is all true... and so what?
How does "doctors have been lax when prescribing opioid painkillers" support the argument that "doctors give false diagnoses of depression all the time so a college basketball transfers don't have to sit out a year?"

I'm only arguing that doctor shopping for a diagnosis or treatment is a real thing and that if a person can snag Oxy or fentanyl lollipops for minor issues that I'm sure they could find a dr willing to diagnose a player with depression. It's just something that hit home to me so I wanted to go on a crusade and make sure people accepted the reality it happens.

I do not support his point that it happens all the time for athletes to gain eligibility or that it has even happened before.

[StillAWarrior]

Cases of doctors falsifying medical records to get a kid a transfer waiver?
OK. Let's see those many links.

Not the same issue, but there were a lot of kids in the college admissions scandal who miraculously had medical waivers allowing them two full days to take the SAT/ACT which was a key way that the cheating occurred.  Also, there are plenty of instances of doctors being pretty easy giving prescriptions for medical marijuana.  And people who get questionable medical certification -- often online -- for emotional support animals.

I'm not arguing that Joey and/or MSU had any bogus medical documentation.  But, it does happen.  Quite a bit.  In many contexts.

[Tha Hound]

Can't wait to see everyone turn on Dawson like people did Joey (who was ranked higher). Let's pump the breaks on expectations and hype for kids who haven't even started their senior seasons.

Wrong.

[Galway Eagle]

Wrong.

Prior to breaking his foot he was I think that's what Billy Hoyle is referring to. Of course then you'd need to look at Dawson's ranking before mono or at the end of this year.

[The Sultan]

He'd still be wrong.  Joey peaked at #32 in 247 rankings.  Dawson is #31 right now and peaked in the high 20s.

[79Warrior]

It's the usually slipperty slopism that he engages in.  Of course there are no links.  There is no evidence this is taking place.

He said there is so there is. After all, he is always right in his mind.

[MUDPT]

You can't doctor shop in this case. Let's say Player A wants to transfer because of depression.  I'm assuming the NCAA would look for records of depression at the old school. A medical professional can't go in and back date a note saying, yes in February the student athlete came in with complaints of depression. They could, but it would immediately be flagged by whatever EMR service for review.

This is besides the obvious situation  where Player A gets a note from a doctor , and then Player A's rival has a doctor that files an immediate complaint with the licensing board in that state. Too much headaches, physicians wouldn't do it unless there was an actual diagnosis.