Joey applied for waiver

[wadesworld]

All I'm hearing is "no doctor is making up a fake diagnosis or writing up an unnecessary prescription to get a student athlete cleared to play immediately after transfer."

Sure I can find a doctor that might write me a prescription for a painkiller if I go into his office with a bruise and scream and scream and scream about how much pain I'm in and I can't even breathe because of it.

But I'm not going to find a doctor who's willing to testify to the NCAA that I had Tommy John surgery so I should get another year of college eligibility as a pitcher when I never had Tommy John surgery. Sorry, just not happening, regardless of what cheekaloop claims.

[Tha Hound]

He'd still be wrong.  Joey peaked at #32 in 247 rankings.  Dawson is #31 right now and peaked in the high 20s.

QFT

[Jay Bee]

You can't doctor shop in this case. Let's say Player A wants to transfer because of depression.  I'm assuming the NCAA would look for records of depression at the old school. A medical professional can't go in and back date a note saying, yes in February the student athlete came in with complaints of depression. They could, but it would immediately be flagged by whatever EMR service for review.

This is besides the obvious situation  where Player A gets a note from a doctor , and then Player A's rival has a doctor that files an immediate complaint with the licensing board in that state. Too much headaches, physicians wouldn't do it unless there was an actual diagnosis.

tbh battling depression might be a good reason for the transfer rules as they currently are written. Take a year in residence. On scholarship. Without the worry of 'counting' competition.

#StudentFirst

[rocky_warrior]

QFT

You're correct, recruit rankings have a lot in common with quantum field theory.

[Billy Hoyle]

He'd still be wrong.  Joey peaked at #32 in 247 rankings.  Dawson is #31 right now and peaked in the high 20s.

ESPN has him at 45 - that's what I was referring to (all of the tweets were listing 45).

Still, pump the breaks.  We've seen far too many recruits come in hyped only to not live up to those lofty expectations (Dameon Mason...)

[Billy Hoyle]

Uhm, yeah...real.

Happy to provide many links to doctors caught doing this, which mean many many more go uncaught.  For the record, the overall number is small for the reasons you state, but the term doctor shopping exists because it is real...all you have to do is find one....and then another.  This has been going on for years in the disability benefits insurance area.

yes, that does happen but the NCAA wouldn't use it in a waiver application since the applicant has to have contemporaneous medical documentation showing the original diagnosis and treatment and rehab notes during the injury, all dated. I guess a school could get a doctor to forge all of these documents but schools would be facing serious sanctions themselves if that happened, let alone the doctor.

[Cheeks]

You can't doctor shop in this case. Let's say Player A wants to transfer because of depression.  I'm assuming the NCAA would look for records of depression at the old school. A medical professional can't go in and back date a note saying, yes in February the student athlete came in with complaints of depression. They could, but it would immediately be flagged by whatever EMR service for review.

This is besides the obvious situation  where Player A gets a note from a doctor , and then Player A's rival has a doctor that files an immediate complaint with the licensing board in that state. Too much headaches, physicians wouldn't do it unless there was an actual diagnosis.

Sure you can in a depression situation.  A kid goes to the right "doctor" for an initial diagnosis and doctor says this young man clearly suffers from depression based on my clinical opinion.  Which, by the way, is a lot more squishy then saying this young guy suffers from cancer where cell biology is the absolute proof. 

Look at all the cases where one psychiatrist says patient A suffered from depression or whatever and Psychiatrist B says patient A does not.  Plenty of examples in criminal cases.

[wadesworld]

Sure you can in a depression situation.  A kid goes to the right "doctor" for an initial diagnosis and doctor says this young man clearly suffers from depression based on my clinical opinion.  Which, by the way, is a lot more squishy then saying this young guy suffers from cancer where cell biology is the absolute proof. 

Look at all the cases where one psychiatrist says patient A suffered from depression or whatever and Psychiatrist B says patient A does not.  Plenty of examples in criminal cases.

Please provide those links for student athletes finding doctors to take diagnoses and prescriptions as promised. We can pick up the discussion from there.

[Cheeks]

He said there is so there is. After all, he is always right in his mind.

LOL. And then when I provide the links, you guys go silent or I provide 8 links and you guys get hung up on one and ignore the others.

But I will happily provide links later today...I am enjoying my lunch at the moment.

[The Sultan]

Please provide those links for student athletes finding doctors to take diagnoses and prescriptions as promised. We can pick up the discussion from there.

Everyone is aware that he makes things up and then ignores requests for evidence.  Building strawmen is simply easier.

[wadesworld]

LOL. And then when I provide the links, you guys go silent or I provide 8 links and you guys get hung up on one and ignore the others.

But I will happily provide links later today...I am enjoying my lunch at the moment.

Too busy enjoying his lunch to do things like spend time on the internet.

Oh wait...

LOL indeed.

[Pakuni]

ESPN has him at 45 - that's what I was referring to (all of the tweets were listing 45).

Still, pump the breaks.  We've seen far too many recruits come in hyped only to not live up to those lofty expectations (Dameon Mason...)

Or we can just let fans enjoy the fact their team just landed a highly ranked recruit without being the "Well, actually" guy.

[Billy Hoyle]

Sure you can in a depression situation.  A kid goes to the right "doctor" for an initial diagnosis and doctor says this young man clearly suffers from depression based on my clinical opinion.  Which, by the way, is a lot more squishy then saying this young guy suffers from cancer where cell biology is the absolute proof. 

Look at all the cases where one psychiatrist says patient A suffered from depression or whatever and Psychiatrist B says patient A does not.  Plenty of examples in criminal cases.

actually, you would need a diagnosis that was made at the previous school. And usually, in cases of mental health, one is only going to get a waiver if they transfer back home where there is a support system in place.

[GB Warrior]

actually, you would need a diagnosis that was made at the previous school. And usually, in cases of mental health, one is only going to get a waiver if they transfer back home where there is a support system in place.

I dunno, if you met my family, you'd definitely give me a waiver for moving farther away

[Jables1604]

LOL. And then when I provide the links, you guys go silent or I provide 8 links and you guys get hung up on one and ignore the others.

But I will happily provide links later today...I am enjoying my lunch at the moment.

Translation: Let me spend the rest of my day searching every corner of the internet to find an article that that says nothing close to what I claimed and hope no one actually reads the link and calls me out on it...

[Jay Bee]

actually, you would need a diagnosis that was made at the previous school. And usually, in cases of mental health, one is only going to get a waiver if they transfer back home where there is a support system in place.

State the basis for your claim!

[Cheeks]

Please provide those links for student athletes finding doctors to take diagnoses and prescriptions as promised. We can pick up the discussion from there.

Lol.  I said links of medical fraud by doctors which are used for disability fraud ( huge cases in Calif and New York with cops and firemen), etc.  No reason it cannot be done in these situations.

By far the easiest is mental health.  Differ psychiatrists diagnosis same patient differently.  Find someone sympathetic to the cause, and quite frankly they don't even have to commit fraud to do it..becomes a clinical difference of opinion.

[Cheeks]

Translation: Let me spend the rest of my day searching every corner of the internet to find an article that that says nothing close to what I claimed and hope no one actually reads the link and calls me out on it...

Nope.  More like spending 5 minutes, providing many links that back the claim and a few that are on the margins and that's the only ones you focus on....ignoring the slam dunk ones.  But good try.

Mental health in particular...already misdiagnosed so it would be easier to find someone sympathetic without any real ethical problems.  Doctor shop.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/study-most-people-diagnosed-with-depression-do-not-actually-meet-criteria/275436/

[The Sultan]

Lol.  I said links of medical fraud by doctors which are used for disability fraud ( huge cases in Calif and New York with cops and firemen), etc.  No reason it cannot be done in these situations.

But you can't find any. Classic straw man.

[forgetful]

Leave the goalpost shifting to Cheeks, please.
And no, there aren't "countless" doctors who risk their licenses and break the law to get students extra time to take the ACT/SAT (I presume that's one you're talking about). Stop with that nonsense.

As someone that works with students daily, you are wrong.

They all know lists of doctors that are willing to do it provided you pay in cash. For ACT/SAT/MCAT/LSAT, regular exams/courses, to get out of class requirements, etc.

But like I said, finding an example specific to what Chicos was claiming is largely impossible. But I guarantee you if you wanted to go down that route you wouldn't have a problem finding the doctor, and if you go around any college campus and ask kids about shady doctors that would do so, they will refer you to one.

[The Sultan]

As someone that works with students daily, you are wrong.

They all know lists of doctors that are willing to do it provided you pay in cash. For ACT/SAT/MCAT/LSAT, regular exams/courses, to get out of class requirements, etc.

But like I said, finding an example specific to what Chicos was claiming is largely impossible. But I guarantee you if you wanted to go down that route you wouldn't have a problem finding the doctor, and if you go around any college campus and ask kids about shady doctors that would do so, they will refer you to one.

Wow. Cheeks has a guy harvesting his straw for him!

[Billy Hoyle]

State the basis for your claim!

Personal experience

[Cheeks]

But you can't find any. Classic straw man.

Until a year ago I could never find any celebrities paying huge sums of money so that their kids were on rowing teams to get into college....therefore it never happened, right?  LOL

My point was then and now, depression is one area that is more easily "misdiagnosed" and without too much effort could be used by finding the right doctor to do so.  The amount of fraud we have by people in all walks of life is insane, why would this be any different?

[Cheeks]

As someone that works with students daily, you are wrong.

They all know lists of doctors that are willing to do it provided you pay in cash. For ACT/SAT/MCAT/LSAT, regular exams/courses, to get out of class requirements, etc.

But like I said, finding an example specific to what Chicos was claiming is largely impossible. But I guarantee you if you wanted to go down that route you wouldn't have a problem finding the doctor, and if you go around any college campus and ask kids about shady doctors that would do so, they will refer you to one.

Yup

[Cheeks]

Wow. Cheeks has a guy harvesting his straw for him!

Good Lord, are you really denying this stuff happens?  How the hell do you think it is so easy for kids to get adderral legitimately....or hey....heard of the opioid crisis?  Plenty of doctors out there that will do lots of things for people at the right price.