We could’ve won this tournament

[mugrad_89]

I've talked about the mid-range J for a long time and mostly I get the "not part of the game anymore" response.  I think it's an important shot to have in your arsenal, especially with how teams defend.  That doesn't mean take 20 a game but if you hit say 3-5 a game it might be the difference between winning and losing.  And yes, I've seem good teams take and make that shot to their advantage over the years.  Remember, that shot is almost always uncontested as well.

Exactly - I think Tyler, Stevie and OMax would be really hard to guard if they added that shot.

[panda]

Like most things, I can argue either side.  Foe example, what if EE made the same progress the rest of the returnees?   What would the season have been like with an another athletic 6'5 player with some PG skills?  Or an experienced 6'6 glue guy in the Mitchell mold, but with rebounding experience?

The counter is that if they had been healthy and played, it probably would have meant less PT for the rest of the bench players.
And, 29-7.

A rotation that deep is not an impactful rotation. Play 8 trust 7

[Silent Verbal]

Like most things, I can argue either side.  Foe example, what if EE made the same progress the rest of the returnees?   What would the season have been like with an another athletic 6'5 player with some PG skills?  Or an experienced 6'6 glue guy in the Mitchell mold, but with rebounding experience?

The counter is that if they had been healthy and played, it probably would have meant less PT for the rest of the bench players.
And, 29-7.

In the brief time Ellis played during the UNC game last year, he looked like he’d never dribbled a basketball before.  He might stay because he likes Shaka, but I can’t see him being an impact player at Marquette. 

Sean Jones was only out for a couple games.  Wrightsil doesn’t belong at this level.

None of our key players got injured and we had the same starting lineup all year.  That’s a rare thing, and I believe it’s the point Herman was trying to make.  If you think any injury besides whatever was going on with Kolek the last two games had any impact on the season, you’re being purposefully obtuse.  We couldn’t have possibly asked for better health this year.

[wisblue]

I’m still struggling to wrap my head around how many of you would prefer a conference title to an elite 8.

For me, It’s about as simple as preferring 3 months  and 20 games of entertaining and winning basketball (half of which I get to see in person) culminating in a championship over a week of winning 3 games.

From a player’s perspective I would think that a conference championship in a strong conference would be more satisfying.

Maybe after MU wins a few more conference titles the preference will change.

[tower912]

Hence the discussion of improvement.   The season was a lot of fun.  My personal preference is to have lots of bodies.  As a cushion against injuries  and to help with full court pressure for longer.   

If you were to list what you thought MU's weaknesses were, would a healthy Ellis or Wrightsil have made a difference?  IMO, yes.  But I don't feel like this is a hill I need to defend.  Rock on.

[MU82]

Exactly - I think Tyler, Stevie and OMax would be really hard to guard if they added that shot.

The one who would see a whole world open up for him if he had a 10-15 footer would be Oso.

There was one game, I can't remember which but it was a conference game, that Oso was left SO wide open from about 14 feet that he took it -- and made it.

I wonder if either on the bench later in the game or in practice the next day Shaka, Nevada or any other coach said anything to Oso about it. If so, was it, "Good job, do it again!" or "OK, that went in, but that's not really what we want from you." Would love to ask Shaka about that.

[brewcity77]

Short version - would you rather have Marquette season this year or UConn’s if they lose today.

Marquette and (for me) it's not even a close discussion.

[Badgerhater]

I’m still struggling to wrap my head around how many of you would prefer a conference title to an elite 8.

It’s not a question of preference of one over the other.  It’s recognizing that two earned conference titles are a great accomplishment.

[wisblue]

Short version - would you rather have Marquette season this year or UConn’s if they lose today.

Marquette’s no question.

UConn’s season included a losing stretch that took them from favorites to out of the running for the regular season title relatively early and a disappointing loss before a big partisan crowd in the BET semifinal. Going to the Final Four might help overcome those things, but a loss in the E8 game would complete a triple crown of disappointments.

I can’t agree with Doctor V about drawing the line between the Elite 8 and the Sweet 16. The only real difference between the two is one more win but postponing the disappointment by 2 days.

[MUMountin]

Full Fiserv Forum games are tremendously fun.

The future looks good for MU hoops.

The overarching thing for me is that after Wojo-inspired apathy, I am fully re-engaged with Marquette Basketball.

IMO, this is the reason why this season may have been better than a mediocre regular season with a flash-in-the-pan deep tourney run.  Rebuilding/reenergizing the fan base for the long run is going to come from sustained success.  Tourney runs can help to bring people to jump on the bandwagon (and also necessary to keep fan attention in the long run), but I think early in Shaka’s tenure, this type of season will help to reinstall faith in the program generally.  Trust the process, etc.

[wadesworld]

Give me the outright BE title and tourney title and a second round exit over 5th in the conference and Elite 8 exit.

But give me Final Four over anything, even if it’s the double conference title and an Elite 8 loss.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Sean Jones
Emarion Ellis
Zach Wrightsil

All injuries.  E and W affected depth, at a minimum, Herman.

They all look alike.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Marquette and (for me) it's not even a close discussion.

Y’all are insane with this takes. Feel like a coping mechanism more than anything.

If Marquette goes to the Elite 8 next year, and finished say, third in conference this season will be a blip on the radar.

[panda]

Y’all are insane with this takes. Feel like a coping mechanism more than anything.

If Marquette goes to the Elite 8 next year, and finished say, third in conference this season will be a blip on the radar.

This season will be remembered as special because of where we were projected and how we finished the regular season. It will be a building block for Shaka for years to come.

However, ultimately programs are judged by what they do in the tournament. Moving forward tournament success is imperative.

[Scoop Snoop]

Y’all are insane with this takes. Feel like a coping mechanism more than anything.

If Marquette goes to the Elite 8 next year, and finished say, third in conference this season will be a blip on the radar.

Why the "either/or obsession?

I think it's amusing that you referred to a "coping mechanism." 

Some of us enjoyed most of the games in our 36 game season, which was insanely better than expected. You seemed to be devoted to your 2 game season.

[DoctorV]

I definitely would rather have UCONN's season whether they win or lose today.  Fair or not you are measured by tournament results.  This was an incredible opportunity that didn't go our way.  Now, I have no doubt we will be put in an excellent position to succeed in the tournament for many years to come.  That said getting a 2 seed hasn't happened very often for MU.  The path was right there  to make a deep run and it hurts.  It primarily stings because we played so poorly whether TyKo was injured or not.  I will say that we can take some solace in the likelihood that dominant NCAA teams could be rare in the immediate future.

Muggsy-

I really appreciate you as a poster and I mean this in the nicest way possible…

If Marquette would have had UConn’s season up to this point you would have short circuited by late February/early March.
Don’t forget how brutal UConn was in conference compared to Marquette…
Especially after the start they had and being #1 team in the land.

That season would’ve given you 1.5-2 months of several large letdowns and frustrations, and one additional week of excitement in March.
So, you’d definitely be happier for the majority of the basketball season with Marquettes season.

Seems like most agree with me on it and I think if you reconsider your emotions and the entire body of work you’ll agree that you’d prefer Marquettes season.
Unless UConn wins today, then the answer is UConn.

[tower912]

Y’all are insane with this takes. Feel like a coping mechanism more than anything.

If Marquette goes to the Elite 8 next year, and finished say, third in conference this season will be a blip on the radar.

I grumbled around the house for about a minute and then was over it.  How I roll.

The season was a lot of fun.  It ended earlier than I wanted.  Every fanbase but one  will say that.   

Acknowledge, next.

[DoctorV]

Marquette’s no question.

UConn’s season included a losing stretch that took them from favorites to out of the running for the regular season title relatively early and a disappointing loss before a big partisan crowd in the BET semifinal. Going to the Final Four might help overcome those things, but a loss in the E8 game would complete a triple crown of disappointments.

I can’t agree with Doctor V about drawing the line between the Elite 8 and the Sweet 16. The only real difference between the two is one more win but postponing the disappointment by 2 days.

Fair point.

My main takeaway is that before this year I always assumed I’d prefer a S16 run over a conference title.

This season solidified that I wouldn’t.
The distinction between the S16 and E8 for me is that these E8 games are so massive that you’re a step away from the Final 4, one breath away, one magical game away.
That enough makes the March run worth it, even if you fall short.
Losing in the sweet 16 is just whatever.

I’d bet if you asked Sean Miller after last night he would agree with me, and would trade his season for Shakas at the drop of a hat.

All that said, some of it has to do with the moment in time in history.
Meaning, Marquette was starved.
Marquette needed a huge season very badly, and Marquette got that in the regular and conference tournament seasons.
If Shaka were to run it back and win B2B next year or the year after, and make it more of a consistent top 3/4 thing year in and year out, which will be difficult but certainly plausible, then perhaps things shift a bit and the 3 month gauntlet loses some importance to the 3 week sprint

[MU82]

My main takeaway is that before this year I always assumed I’d prefer a S16 run over a conference title.

This season solidified that I wouldn’t.

I'm kinda here with ya, V. As recently as the week of the Big East tournament, I was saying, "It would be swell to win the BET, but if not no big deal; we've got bigger fish to fry, like getting to the second weekend."

But once the BET took place, especially the intense game against UConn, and then to pull that win out over what basically was a home team that most folks (including lots of Scoopers) were saying would beat us, and then to crush X in the final, all under the MSG lights ... and all of it to come after we won the outright regular-season title by 2 games clear of the field ... well, I couldn't help but really get into it and to feel a lot of pride as a Marquette fan.

Obviously, I still wanted to win more NCAA tournament games. And obviously, if we had lost to UConn but then went on to reach the S16, E8 or FF, most here would have been pretty damn happy with the season.

And most obvious of all ... none of us gets to choose, anyway!

[GoldenEagles03]

Y’all are insane with this takes. Feel like a coping mechanism more than anything.

If Marquette goes to the Elite 8 next year, and finished say, third in conference this season will be a blip on the radar.

But expectations and goals change over time.

With this team, being as young as it is, winning both Big East Titles is an incredible feat. Now you can extend the goalposts and hope to advance farther next year.

Winning both Big East Titles and losing second round or losing in the Elite 8?  I don't think your answer has to be the same every season. It can change is basically what I'm trying to say.

[Dr. Blackheart]

In terms of banner worthy, here is where MUBB ranks these

[We R Final Four]

The one who would see a whole world open up for him if he had a 10-15 footer would be Oso.

There was one game, I can't remember which but it was a conference game, that Oso was left SO wide open from about 14 feet that he took it -- and made it.

I wonder if either on the bench later in the game or in practice the next day Shaka, Nevada or any other coach said anything to Oso about it. If so, was it, "Good job, do it again!" or "OK, that went in, but that's not really what we want from you." Would love to ask Shaka about that.

It certainly appears to be the latter.
High % 2s and open 3s.
Nevada doesn’t want 15’ jumpers, even if they are open…..% goes down.

[mugrad_89]

It certainly appears to be the latter.
High % 2s and open 3s.
Nevada doesn’t want 15’ jumpers, even if they are open…..% goes down.

An open 15’ should be a better percentage shot than a contested 2 at the rim.

[BM1090]

Y’all are insane with this takes. Feel like a coping mechanism more than anything.

If Marquette goes to the Elite 8 next year, and finished say, third in conference this season will be a blip on the radar.

It depends. I’d lean towards UConn in your question. But if it was 2011 Marquette’s season with one additional win over UNC in the S16? This year every single time.

[We R Final Four]

An open 15’ should be a better percentage shot than a contested 2 at the rim.

I don’t know if that’s true with potential for and 1s and fouls to opposition?
Nevada doesn’t seem to think so.