We could’ve won this tournament

[MUfan12]

Personally, it’s because you just can’t assume Marquette is going to be automatically better next year.

We also just cant assume that the team we saw in February was gonna magically return had they beaten MSU.

This team had some real struggles on offense in postseason play, Kam's heater aside. Throw in the fact that our point guards had two healthy hands between them, I guess I just don't see where the run was coming from.

[MuggsyB]

If you say Marquette had a better season if UConn wins a natty?  Hell yeah.

Oh...maybe I misread what you wrote.

[Uncle Rico]

 

In 2003 did Kentucky have a better season than Marquette?

That’s a good question.  Undisputed top-seed entering the tournament.  Top-5 offense and defense.  Long winning streak until DWade. 

[MuggsyB]

We also just cant assume that the team we saw in February was gonna magically return had they beaten MSU.

This team had some real struggles on offense in postseason play, Kam's heater aside. Throw in the fact that our point guards had two healthy hands between them, I guess I just don't see where the run was coming from.

I mean assuming out 4 top guys are back I think we,'ll definitely be better.  You're right that we had some offensive woes down the stretch  but I definitely see significant growth from od players once November comes around.  In particular I think Ross and Gold will be much better.  I honestly think everyone will be better.  That's not to say TyKo can do more individually than he did ymthis season but he will be back with vengeance.  Marquette is positioned to be really good for a long time. 

[MuggsyB]

I mean assuming our 4 top guys are back I think we,'ll definitely be better.  You're right that we had some offensive woes down the stretch  but I definitely see significant growth from all of our players once November comes around.  In particular I think Ross and Gold will be much better.  I honestly think everyone will be better.  That's not to say TyKo can do more individually than he did this season but he will be back with vengeance.  Marquette is positioned to be really good for a long time.

[MUfan12]

I'm with ya, Muggs. If we run it back with this group I feel great about next season.

I was just saying that the assumption cuts both ways. Just as nothing's guaranteed for next season, it surely isn't in the tournament. Yes, objectively Marquette's best is as good or better than the remaining 8 teams. But stuff happens and we shouldn't let this weekend's results color what was going on with the team.

[MuggsyB]

I'm with ya, Muggs. If we run it back with this group I feel great about next season.

I was just saying that the assumption cuts both ways. Just as nothing's guaranteed for next season, it surely isn't in the tournament. Yes, objectively Marquette's best is as good or better than the remaining 8 teams. But stuff happens and we shouldn't let this weekend's results color what was going on with the team.

I couldn't agree more. I think our best this year was right there with any team in the country. I do think though, regardless if TyKo was injured or not, we have to collectively alleviate some of the pressure he felt late in the year to take over games.  Still, I think we will be much better next year with our core coming back and a few additional pieces.  Oso/Gold wil both be better and is one main key.  Defensively overall I think we'll be better. 

This team won 29 games and the BEast regular season and tournament for a reason.  Obviously getting a serviceable big and perhaps a knock-down shooter would help but barring injuries or defections I forsee MU being a top 5 team and extremely motivated.   If we can get our 3-Ball percentage closer to 40% that's bad news for the rest of the teams in the country.

[mugrad_89]

I couldn't agree more. I think our best this year was right there with any team in the country. I do think though, regardless if TyKo was injured or not, we have to collectively alleviate some of the pressure he felt late in the year to take over games.  Still, I think we will be much better next year with our core coming back and a few additional pieces.  Oso/Gold wil both be better and is one main key.  Defensively overall I think we'll be better. 

This team won 29 games and the BEast regular season and tournament for a reason.  Obviously getting a serviceable big and perhaps a knock-down shooter would help but barring injuries or defections I forsee MU being a top 5 team and extremely motivated.   If we can get our 3-Ball percentage closer to 40% that's bad news for the rest of the teams in the country.

I also like how we are trending for next season.  I know it probably won’t happen, but I’d still like to see us develop a serviceable mid-range game.  I’ve seen several team successfully use this during the tournament and think it would really help against teams that pack it in.

[tower912]

Assuming Ben stays and develops in a manner similar to the last year's returnees, MU will have a serviceable back up big.   

[79Warrior]

Yes. I dominant teams all the 1s out .   But I think the TK injury was key.    And the team was off because it it.   But TK says no.   

Maybe. I think our size was a problem. MSU has so many second chance points.

[Goose]

I would say how the tournament has unfolding has shown how difficult it is to win in March. The way things have gone in NCAA, it looks to me that there are 20+ other teams that probably feel they let it slip away as well. Definitely still very disappointed with the loss and having a hard time watching the games the last two days.

I will add, if this season would have been year three of the Shaka era and not year two, I would be off the charts disappointed. I think last week for the first time all season the stage was too big for the guys, especially the second half. I have always been in NCAA matters most and the bar has been raised again for next season. If the core of the team is back, the goal has to be winning in March. They put themselves in position this year and did not take advantage of it and hope it was a hard lesson that they learned from.

[mugrad_89]

I would say how the tournament has unfolding has shown how difficult it is to win in March. The way things have gone in NCAA, it looks to me that there are 20+ other teams that probably feel they let it slip away as well. Definitely still very disappointed with the loss and having a hard time watching the games the last two days.

I will add, if this season would have been year three of the Shaka era and not year two, I would be off the charts disappointed. I think last week for the first time all season the stage was too big for the guys, especially the second half. I have always been in NCAA matters most and the bar has been raised again for next season. If the core of the team is back, the goal has to be winning in March. They put themselves in position this year and did not take advantage of it and hope it was a hard lesson that they learned from.

The common thread for most of the remaining teams is that they are veteran laden teams - our relative inexperience showed up once it got to a one and done scenario.

[CountryRoads]

I would say how the tournament has unfolding has shown how difficult it is to win in March. The way things have gone in NCAA, it looks to me that there are 20+ other teams that probably feel they let it slip away as well. Definitely still very disappointed with the loss and having a hard time watching the games the last two days.

I will add, if this season would have been year three of the Shaka era and not year two, I would be off the charts disappointed. I think last week for the first time all season the stage was too big for the guys, especially the second half. I have always been in NCAA matters most and the bar has been raised again for next season. If the core of the team is back, the goal has to be winning in March. They put themselves in position this year and did not take advantage of it and hope it was a hard lesson that they learned from.

Whether we all agree this was the right approach or not, Shaka never put any on court expectations on this team for the first 2 years. It was always “all culture first 2 years” and “grow as much as anyone in the country” when asked about expectations. I genuinely don’t think they had any concrete or tangible on court goals these first 2 years.

I’d imagine many (including myself) sort of rolled their eyes at the “culture” talk when Shaka got here but it turned out alright. We were treated to 2 NCAA appearances, an NCAA win, a BE regular season and tournament championship, and a fantastic group of players that all have multiple years of eligibility remaining heading into year 3.

The culture has been well established and the stage is set for some massive success in year 3. I think we’re right on track and ready for lift off next year.

[Goose]

CountryRoad

I think they adjusted on court expectations as the season progressed, but it was likely to win the next game. There seemed to be a lot more urgency as the season moved on, but hard to adjust on the fly. IMO, that may have caused some of the nerves last Sunday.

If the guys are back next season, my guess is that playing to win it all will be part of their expectations.

The good news for the program, while building that culture in two years, they learned how to win along the way. I think that loss to MSU is the catalyst to bigger things next season.

[wisblue]

I mean assuming out 4 top guys are back I think we,'ll definitely be better.  You're right that we had some offensive woes down the stretch  but I definitely see significant growth from od players once November comes around.  In particular I think Ross and Gold will be much better.  I honestly think everyone will be better.  That's not to say TyKo can do more individually than he did ymthis season but he will be back with vengeance.  Marquette is positioned to be really good for a long time.

I think he was referring to the team magically playing better in this tournament if they had gotten by MSU.

One factor that I think got glossed over in the euphoria of winning the BET is that this was a VERY young team, especially with all of the extra years of eligibility coming from COVID. How many teams that have been advancing have guys in their fifth and sixth years of eligibility (see Hauser, Joey) and might have been hand picked as transfers to supplement a team.

If you articulate these things before the games are played, the COLE cards come flying out of the woodwork. But, everyone seems to nod their understanding that with the parity in CBB these days, every game in the tournament (except maybe the first round for the higher seeds) is likely to produce a difficult opponent. Then they seem suddenly surprised when it actually plays out that way.

 Even if a team is good enough to have a 60% chance of beating any team in the field, the probability of actually winning 5 games in a row against those teams is a mere 8%. I don’t think MU’s chances of winning the tournament were ever that high.

So, yes, the disappointment that MU bowed out when they did is understandable, and I think everyone here feels it, in part because it means no national title, but maybe more in some cases because it means no more games.

I’d like to think that MU can get the program to a point where they will be perennial contenders for the BE title, consistently finish in the top part of the conference, and  make the NCAA tournament comfortably almost every year with no Selection Sunday bubble drama. If they do that there will be more opportunities like this season and maybe one will blossom into a Final Four or maybe even a championship. If they don’t, maybe the banners will remind fans how much fun this season was.

[Scoop Snoop]

CountryRoad

I think they adjusted on court expectations as the season progressed, but it was likely to win the next game. There seemed to be a lot more urgency as the season moved on, but hard to adjust on the fly. IMO, that may have caused some of the nerves last Sunday.

If the guys are back next season, my guess is that playing to win it all will be part of their expectations.

The good news for the program, while building that culture in two years, they learned how to win along the way. I think that loss to MSU is the catalyst to bigger things next season.

This is a very rough analogy Goose, but I think that this season was like anyone's teen years, when we all experienced fast growth both physically and personally with inevitable growing pains in both spheres. If taken in that light, I think the loss to MSU becomes easier to comprehend and accept.

[Badgerhater]

It was a great year with a disappointing end.

Big East double champions is a tremendous accomplishment.

BE POY and COY, plus some other individual hardware is good stuff.

Full Fiserv Forum games are tremendously fun.

The future looks good for MU hoops.

The overarching thing for me is that after Wojo-inspired apathy, I am fully re-engaged with Marquette Basketball.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I’m still struggling to wrap my head around how many of you would prefer a conference title to an elite 8.

[Herman Cain]

MU was built this season on a team concept, where the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. We literally had no injuries all season long, other than Kam's brief hip pointer. It was unfortunate, that our team leader severely injured his thumb in the Vermont game to the point he could not be effective. Injuries happen. It happened back in the day to Dom. Last year Nova was positioned to maybe get another Natty and Justin Moore blew out his Achilles.

Winning Conference Titles and Conference Tournaments is how a team can earn a high seed and be in a good position to make a tournament run. Our coaches and team figured out how to do that.

Now we go to the next phase, which is to make it a repeatable process.

 

[MU82]

This is what will haunt us. As good as we were this year and to play the way we played against MSU is just…something. I still can’t believe how bad we looked. That regional was as easy a path as we will ever have. I’m not advocating jumping off buildings, but the “oh well” tone on this board seem a bit odd. This is a Marquette basketball board and this team had a legit chance to win the National Championship. We have never had a better opportunity…including in 2003. This was it.

Who is "us"?

If you've read this thread and others since the loss, you will have seen a variety of reactions, from a few Scoopers being "haunted," to many (the majority IMHO) being disappointed but pragmatic and looking forward to next season.

I can't speak for others, but for me it's not "oh well." It's:

Though I was really disappointed with how the season ended, I can't do a damn thing about the loss to Michigan State now. And I truly enjoyed this season, and I'm really optimistic about next season. So for me, personally, to be "haunted" by the season's end would be silly and unproductive. We Are Marquette!

But you and others certainly are free to be haunted by it for the next month or next year or next decade or the rest of your life, if that's how you have to process it.

[tower912]

Sean Jones
Emarion Ellis
Zach Wrightsil

All injuries.  E and W affected depth, at a minimum, Herman.

[panda]

Sean Jones
Emarion Ellis
Zach Wrightsil

All injuries.  E and W affected depth, at a minimum, Herman.

I would say the Ellis and Wrightsil injuries are about as low as possible on the issues of this season. 

[tower912]

Like most things, I can argue either side.  For example, what if EE made the same progress as the rest of the returnees?   What would the season have been like with an another athletic 6'5 player with some PG skills?  Or an experienced 6'6 glue guy in the Mitchell mold, but with rebounding experience?

The counter is that if they had been healthy and played, it probably would have meant less PT for the rest of the bench players.
And, 29-7.

[MuggsyB]

I also like how we are trending for next season.  I know it probably won’t happen, but I’d still like to see us develop a serviceable mid-range game.  I’ve seen several team successfully use this during the tournament and think it would really help against teams that pack it in.

I've talked about the mid-range J for a long time and mostly I get the "not part of the game anymore" response.  I think it's an important shot to have in your arsenal, especially with how teams defend.  That doesn't mean take 20 a game but if you hit say 3-5 a game it might be the difference between winning and losing.  And yes, I've seem good teams take and make that shot to their advantage over the years.  Remember, that shot is almost always uncontested as well.

[MuggsyB]

I would say the Ellis and Wrightsil injuries are about as low as possible on the issues of this season.

I expected Wrightsil to contribute but agreed, pretty minor issue.