The War in Ukraine

[jficke13]

I'm not encouraging the murder of non-combatants, I'm just curious why you chose to describe her in the most sympathetic terms possible.

What I'm suggesting is that The choice to do so is not a neutral one.

To paraphrase Lafayette: if one side said 2+2= 4 and the other says 2+2=6, the neutral position is not to dispassionately explain that some people do arithmetic differently. The base state in this conflict is not "both sides are bad." That lens is exactly what Moscow wants people to default to because it necessarily minimizes Russian war crimes and the war of aggression they instigated which was the precipitating incident for literally everything that happened as being somehow equivalent to what Ukraine has done in response.

[Jockey]

This is the correct take.  While she did suck eggs, she was a non-combatant.  Imagine what would have happened in the US if Iraqi's murdered a US Senator's child like this.

War crimes are war crimes, no matter who commits them.

Russia does this thousands of times, but when Ukraine does it once?

Both sider-ism reigns.

[Hards Alumni]

Russia does this thousands of times, but when Ukraine does it once?

Both sider-ism reigns.

Nope.  Stop being such a neo-lib.  Are you trying to say that when one side does a war crime that justifies the other side in doing one?

No one is equating the two.  All war crimes are bad isn't a controversial take, and it certainly isn't 'both sider-ism'.

[#UnleashSean]

Are we forgetting that during the start of the war, Russia went in and killed every male over the age of 14 in a village?

[tower912]

Most, but not all, agree that Russia is the bad guy here.

[MUBurrow]

Nope.  Stop being such a neo-lib.  Are you trying to say that when one side does a war crime that justifies the other side in doing one?

No one is equating the two.  All war crimes are bad isn't a controversial take, and it certainly isn't 'both sider-ism'.

100%  There's a subtle but very very dangerous shift in moving from "When you take the context of Russia's actions into account, we should not change course in Ukraine due to Ukraine's wrongful killing of Darya Dugina," to "Ukraine's killing of Darya Dugina was not wrong becuase of the larger context of Russia's actions."

[The Sultan]

I'm not encouraging the murder of non-combatants, I'm just curious why you chose to describe her in the most sympathetic terms possible.

"Young woman" is the most sympathetic term possible?

I actually think forgetful was just referencing her in a manner that everyone involved in the discussion would know who he was talking about.

[The Sultan]

Nope.  Stop being such a neo-lib.  Are you trying to say that when one side does a war crime that justifies the other side in doing one?

No one is equating the two.  All war crimes are bad isn't a controversial take, and it certainly isn't 'both sider-ism'.

Exactly. It also completely ignores how the discussion here got to this point.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Most, but not all, agree that Russia is the bad guy here.

[tower912]

I know.  Just choosing to not name names or point fingers.

[MU82]

Britney Griner lost her appeal and soon will begin serving her sentence -- 9 years in a penal colony.

She is a political prisoner, a statue for Putin's trophy case. Disgusting.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/10/25/2131106/-Ukraine-update-Russia-s-leverage-over-Europe-has-disintegrated-even-faster-than-it-s-army

"Back in August, Bloomberg carried a piece titled "welcome to Europe's dark, cold winter." It warned that even if countries were able to find gas to fill their storage facilities, it might not prevent a winter filled with blackouts, business closures, and an economy in freefall. That's because prices were soaring and "replenishing storage and reducing demand still may not be enough."

<snip>

But eight months and one day after Russia began its illegal, unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, the idea that Europe is going to "freeze in the dark" without Russian gas seems laughable. Gas storage facilities in Germany are over 97% full, well ahead of last year's status. That gives the nation a significant buffer against any market disruptions.

Across the entire E.U. storage facilities are over 90% full. And even as Europe has been topping off its tanks, the actual price for natural gas has continued to fall. On Monday, prices reached a four month low, with the per megawatt hour cost dropping below $100—less than a third of cost on the day Putin made that "let them freeze" threat.

Even as gas has become cheaper and more available, the demand for gas has also been falling sharply. That's because the major use of natural gas in Europe is generating electricity, and the Russian invasion has helped rush forward initiatives on both conservation and renewables that are cutting into the demand for gas. In fact, the biggest threat to renewable projects right now in Europe is ... the plunging price of gas, which is making some of the counties and companies that had jumped onto making a clean break between electrical generation and gas rethink their positions."

[Jockey]

The law of unintended consequences.

[The Sultan]

Apparently Russia has retreated from Kherson and all other territory they held on the east side of the Dnieper. I really have no idea what their end game is right now, but this has been continuously humiliating.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Russia just sucks period.

[Hards Alumni]

Apparently Russia has retreated from Kherson and all other territory they held on the east side of the Dnieper. I really have no idea what their end game is right now, but this has been continuously humiliating.

Smart move.  They couldn't possibly defend it over the winter.  There was a rumor online that it was a trap, but who really knows.

Russia will sue for peace this winter... good luck to them with that. 

If they keep losing hundreds of conscripts a day (as reports say) they're society might say enough is enough sooner rather than later.

[#UnleashSean]

Putin rose to power with false flag attacks and lies to invade. Seems fitting its the way he will fall from power.

[MU82]

Russia just sucks period.

Moose and Squirrel agree!

[MuggsyB]

There are reports that Russian missiles have hit Poland.

[pbiflyer]

There are reports that Russian missiles have hit Poland.

Where did you see this? That would be huge if true.  (not questioning you, just hadn't seen it yet).

[tower912]

I have read about a missile barrage hitting Ukraine and the Polish PM calling an emergency meeting.  Nothing about missiles hitting Poland.

[cheebs09]

Looks like a missile or two landed in Poland near the Ukrainian border.


https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-11-15-22/h_e7fcb96313566fdeabb625b08f4b4b7f

[MuggsyB]

I'm am listening to the BBC and I believe now the AP is confirming it. 

[tower912]

Putin is still the bad guy.

[Pakuni]

KYIV, Ukraine — A senior U.S. intelligence official says Russian missiles crossed into NATO member Poland, killing two people.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/11/15/russian-missiles-crossed-into-poland-killing-2-us-official-says/10704659002/