2022-2023 NFL Season

[Dish]

God be with whatever Pats beat writer asks the first question to Belichick in the postgame presser.

[Pakuni]

Belichick teams never beat themselves, though.

Belichick is the GOAT, but his decision to turn his offense over to Matt Patricia and Joe Judge is as inexplicable as it gets.

[WhiteTrash]

Belichick is the GOAT, but his decision to turn his offense over to Matt Patricia and Joe Judge is as inexplicable as it gets.

Agreed with all this.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

OMG Patriots.

I'm calling that play Co-lateral Damage.

[MU82]

Belichick is the GOAT, but his decision to turn his offense over to Matt Patricia and Joe Judge is as inexplicable as it gets.

Oh absolutely. That goes under the "Even great coaches make stupid decisions sometimes" file. So does the way today's game ended -- totally giving away that game is 100% on the head coach.

[Dish]

I'm calling that play Co-lateral Damage.

I don't know if you saw that some place else or came up with it on your own, but I like it!

[Pakuni]

I'm calling that play Co-lateral Damage.

The Err-Maculate Reception.

[WhiteTrash]

I'm calling that play Co-lateral Damage.

You win the internet today!

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I don't know if you saw that some place else or came up with it on your own, but I like it!

Thanks Dish!  My own creation.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

The Err-Maculate Reception.

Not bad, not bad.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Found this replay:


https://twitter.com/FrankieG1998/status/1604634987126575105?t=k_MbNP8KF9RJhxm26EkYdA&s=19

[Jockey]

Belichick is the GOAT, but his decision to turn his offense over to Matt Patricia and Joe Judge is as inexplicable as it gets.

Is Belichick the GOAT or is he a very good coach who was lucky to have the Goat on his team?

What is his percentage making the Playoffs minus Brady? In fact, in a quite large sample size, I believe he is a sub-.500 coach without Tom.

I'd take Parcells any day.

[WhiteTrash]

Is Belichick the GOAT or is he a very good coach who was lucky to have the Goat on his team?

What is his percentage making the Playoffs minus Brady? In fact, in a quite large sample size, I believe he is a sub-.500 coach without Tom.

I'd take Parcells any day.

Give me Mini Ditka any day 

[wadesworld]

Is Belichick the GOAT or is he a very good coach who was lucky to have the Goat on his team?

What is his percentage making the Playoffs minus Brady? In fact, in a quite large sample size, I believe he is a sub-.500 coach without Tom.

I'd take Parcells any day.

Coaches are bad when their roster is bad. That checks out.

[MU82]

Not that Washington deserved to win, but the refs simply chose to ignore a blatant interference on Washington's final play.

[Jockey]

Coaches are bad when their roster is bad. That checks out.

Couldn't agree more.

[The Sultan]

Losing 10 out of last 11 games isn't embarrassing?

No. See the Bears are playing three dimensional chess. Losing is actually winning and winning is actually losing. You only wish you could understand their brilliance.

[The Sultan]

You keep mentioning the NBA for some reason. The only pro sport that openly rewards losing/tanking is the NFL. There's no draft lottery in the NFL, you also get "rewarded" with three games (out of 17) on your schedule being different than your division (no other league does that).

I'm not shifting any goal posts, if year in/year out you're around .500, that's a long term recipe for never getting better. It's not rocket surgery to realize 3-14 is better than 5-12 long term. Yes, I did that on purpose.

I am bringing up the NBA because that is a league where your clearest, and almost only path to success is drafting near the top of the first round.  In the NFL, you can build a team though drafting in the middle of the rounds.  Good organizations add talent that way all of the time.

The Bears weren't mired in mediocrity because they finished 8-8 a couple of times. They were mired in mediocrity because Ryan Pace sucked at his job. A good GM would have gotten the talent to move that 8-8 team to a 12-4 one.  Or maybe never would have drafted Mitch Trubisky in the first place.

Honestly I would much rather be 7-7 at this point if I were a Bear fan. First, because winning is fun. Second, you may actually make the playoffs this year. But third and most importantly, it actually shows progress!

[MU82]

After his team was humiliated at home by the not-even-mediocre Steelers, Carolina coach Steve Wilks had his own version of Jim Mora's infamous "Playoffs?" rant:

"I don't want anybody in this building talking playoffs. We've got to worry about trying to get ourselves right to win a football game."

[The Sultan]

Belichick is the GOAT, but his decision to turn his offense over to Matt Patricia and Joe Judge is as inexplicable as it gets.

This is it. And I think speaks to a larger problem with BB and the Patriots. Their staff is ridiculously inbred. Any fired coach who used to be an assistant there is brought back into the fold. And two of his kids are defensive assistants!

This just feels like its not ending well for him.

[lawdog77]

I am bringing up the NBA because that is a league where your clearest, and almost only path to success is drafting near the top of the first round. In the NFL, you can build a team though drafting in the middle of the rounds.  Good organizations add talent that way all of the time.

The Bears weren't mired in mediocrity because they finished 8-8 a couple of times. They were mired in mediocrity because Ryan Pace sucked at his job. A good GM would have gotten the talent to move that 8-8 team to a 12-4 one.  Or maybe never would have drafted Mitch Trubisky in the first place.

Honestly I would much rather be 7-7 at this point if I were a Bear fan. First, because winning is fun. Second, you may actually make the playoffs this year. But third and most importantly, it actually shows progress!

Quick question, is the boldest really true in the NBA? I guess it depends on what one means "near the top of the first round". If one is talking top 3 picks. It's simply not true. Here's the list
2   1   Paolo Banchero   Duke   Orlando Magic
2   Chet Holmgren   Gonzaga   Oklahoma City Thunder
3   Jabari Smith   Auburn   Houston Rockets
2021   1   Cade Cunningham   Oklahoma State   Detroit Pistons
2   Jalen Green   NBA G-League   Houston Rockets
3   Evan Mobley   USC   Cleveland Cavaliers
2020   1   Anthony Edwards   Georgia   Minnesota Timberwolves
2   James Wiseman   Memphis   Golden State Warriors
3   LaMelo Ball   Australia   Charlotte Hornets
2019   1   Zion Williamson   Duke   New Orleans Pelicans
2   Ja Morant   Murray State   Memphis Grizzlies
3   RJ Barrett   Duke   New York Knicks
2018   1   Deandre Ayton   Arizona   Phoenix Suns
2   Marvin Bagley III   Duke   Sacramento Kings
3   Luka Doncic   Spain   Atlanta Hawks
2017   1   Markelle Fultz   Washington   Philadelphia 76ers
2   Lonzo Ball   UCLA   Los Angeles Lakers
3   Jayson Tatum   Duke   Boston Celtics
2016   1   Ben Simmons   LSU   Philadelphia 76ers
2   Brandon Ingram   Duke   Los Angeles Lakers
3   Jaylen Brown   California   Boston Celtics
2015   1   Karl-Anthony Towns   Kentucky   Minnesota Timberwolves
2   D'Angelo Russell   Ohio State   Los Angeles Lakers
3   Jahlil Okafor   Duke   Philadelphia 76ers
2014   1   Andrew Wiggins   Kansas   Cleveland Cavaliers
2   Jabari Parker   Duke   Milwaukee Bucks
3   Joel Embiid   Kansas   Philadelphia 76ers
2013   1   Anthony Bennett   UNLV   Cleveland Cavaliers
2   Victor Oladipo   Indiana   Orlando Magic
3   Otto Porter   Georgetown   Washington Wizards
2012   1   Anthony Davis   Kentucky   New Orleans Hornets
2   Michael Kidd-Gilchrist   Kentucky   Charlotte Bobcats
3   Bradley Beal   Florida   Washington Wizards
2011   1   Kyrie Irving   Duke   Cleveland Cavaliers
2   Derrick Williams   Arizona   Minnesota Timberwolves
3   Enes Kanter   Turkey   Utah Jazz
2010   1   John Wall   Kentucky   Washington Wizards
2   Evan Turner   Ohio State   Philadelphia 76ers
3   Derrick Favors   Georgia Tech   New Jersey Nets

[The Sultan]

I probably overstated it, but if you look at that list I see the core of the current Boston Celtics, a two time NBA MVP, the top players on contenders like the Sixers, Grizzlies and Pelicans. 

Furthermore, I think you are looking at this wrong. Here is the list of championship teams in the 2000s that didn't have someone who was one of their core players drafted in the top 10.

2021 Milwaukee Bucks
2019 Toronto Raptors

I believe that the 2020 Lakers were the only team who had a top ten pick, but who didn't draft any of them (or set up draft day trades for them.)

[wadesworld]

Quick question, is the boldest really true in the NBA? I guess it depends on what one means "near the top of the first round". If one is talking top 3 picks. It's simply not true. Here's the list
2   1   Paolo Banchero   Duke   Orlando Magic
2   Chet Holmgren   Gonzaga   Oklahoma City Thunder
3   Jabari Smith   Auburn   Houston Rockets
2021   1   Cade Cunningham   Oklahoma State   Detroit Pistons
2   Jalen Green   NBA G-League   Houston Rockets
3   Evan Mobley   USC   Cleveland Cavaliers
2020   1   Anthony Edwards   Georgia   Minnesota Timberwolves
2   James Wiseman   Memphis   Golden State Warriors
3   LaMelo Ball   Australia   Charlotte Hornets
2019   1   Zion Williamson   Duke   New Orleans Pelicans
2   Ja Morant   Murray State   Memphis Grizzlies
3   RJ Barrett   Duke   New York Knicks
2018   1   Deandre Ayton   Arizona   Phoenix Suns
2   Marvin Bagley III   Duke   Sacramento Kings
3   Luka Doncic   Spain   Atlanta Hawks
2017   1   Markelle Fultz   Washington   Philadelphia 76ers
2   Lonzo Ball   UCLA   Los Angeles Lakers
3   Jayson Tatum   Duke   Boston Celtics
2016   1   Ben Simmons   LSU   Philadelphia 76ers
2   Brandon Ingram   Duke   Los Angeles Lakers
3   Jaylen Brown   California   Boston Celtics
2015   1   Karl-Anthony Towns   Kentucky   Minnesota Timberwolves
2   D'Angelo Russell   Ohio State   Los Angeles Lakers
3   Jahlil Okafor   Duke   Philadelphia 76ers
2014   1   Andrew Wiggins   Kansas   Cleveland Cavaliers
2   Jabari Parker   Duke   Milwaukee Bucks
3   Joel Embiid   Kansas   Philadelphia 76ers
2013   1   Anthony Bennett   UNLV   Cleveland Cavaliers
2   Victor Oladipo   Indiana   Orlando Magic
3   Otto Porter   Georgetown   Washington Wizards
2012   1   Anthony Davis   Kentucky   New Orleans Hornets
2   Michael Kidd-Gilchrist   Kentucky   Charlotte Bobcats
3   Bradley Beal   Florida   Washington Wizards
2011   1   Kyrie Irving   Duke   Cleveland Cavaliers
2   Derrick Williams   Arizona   Minnesota Timberwolves
3   Enes Kanter   Turkey   Utah Jazz
2010   1   John Wall   Kentucky   Washington Wizards
2   Evan Turner   Ohio State   Philadelphia 76ers
3   Derrick Favors   Georgia Tech   New Jersey Nets

That's pretty much proving it IS how you need to win in the NBA. Look at the top 2 teams in each conference right now and who their best players are. Bucks obviously struck gold with Giannis, so yes, it can be done without a top pick, but that's MUCH harder than being at the top. Celtics, both Tatum and Brown were their own top 3 picks. Pels got Zion at the top. Grizz got Ja at the top.

Bigger markets have a chance to build a "super team," but even those seem to have a pretty short window and can blow up in ugly ways.

The teams that draft at the top usually wind up being the teams that win big down the road. That's not the case in the NFL. Teams like the Packers and Patriots have typically drafted towards the bottom and remained Super Bowl contenders for a very long time. Teams like the Lions, Jets, Browns have been drafting towards the top for a very long time and are very rarely Super Bowl contenders.

With a single pick an NBA franchise can flip. That's not really the case in the NFL. Even if you get your future HOF QB, it's still going to take years to build around him, and chances are you'll have to draft well in the middle of the draft at some point.

[lawdog77]

I probably overstated it, but if you look at that list I see the core of the current Boston Celtics, a two time NBA MVP, the top players on contenders like the Sixers, Grizzlies and Pelicans. 

Furthermore, I think you are looking at this wrong. Here is the list of championship teams in the 2000s that didn't have someone who was one of their core players drafted in the top 10.

2021 Milwaukee Bucks
2019 Toronto Raptors

I believe that the 2020 Lakers were the only team who didn't draft any of their core players in the top 10 (or set up draft day trades for them.)

My point is that "tanking" in the NBA does not get you anywhere, especially not anything quickly. Nobody on the list won a championship (except Wiseman) on their own team since Kyrie.

[The Sultan]

My point is that "tanking" in the NBA does not get you anywhere, especially not anything quickly. Nobody on the list won a championship (except Wiseman) on their own team since Kyrie.

1. I never said it was guaranteed to succeed.
2. You limited the scope to the top 3.