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Author Topic: More conference realignment talk  (Read 252152 times)

MU82

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2225 on: May 24, 2023, 08:08:33 AM »
The Big 12 is looking at most of the PAC 12, half the BEast, half the ACC, Gonzaga, and a handful of AAC and MWC schools. They won't end up taking most of them. My guess is that UConn doesn't make the cut.

They can only be looking at Gonzaga and all Big East schools other than UConn if they're thinking about having a basketball-only division. Is that the case? Which 5-6 Big East schools do you think they're looking at?
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WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2226 on: May 24, 2023, 08:14:29 AM »
They can only be looking at Gonzaga and all Big East schools other than UConn if they're thinking about having a basketball-only division. Is that the case? Which 5-6 Big East schools do you think they're looking at?
IMHO, the Big XII is trying to create noise and perceived urgency for PAC12 members. I think the BB only strategy is a bluff. I have zero facts to back this up, just a gut feeling.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2227 on: May 24, 2023, 08:50:47 AM »
They can only be looking at Gonzaga and all Big East schools other than UConn if they're thinking about having a basketball-only division. Is that the case? Which 5-6 Big East schools do you think they're looking at?

I think people vastly underestimate how often and how long these conversations have been happening and vastly overestimate how important they are. Conferences kick around ideas all the time, it would be irresponsible to not consider multiple options...but they are only going to pick the best options and the rest is just talk.

IMHO, the Big XII is trying to create noise and perceived urgency for PAC12 members. I think the BB only strategy is a bluff. I have zero facts to back this up, just a gut feeling.

I think you are probably right. If the B12 follows the pattern that all conferences have in the past when it comes to realignment, they will eventually raid the P12 and ACC when they become available and call it a day. However, I think we are heading for a world where the B1G/SEC dominate football (even more than they already have) and the B12 is the third power conference but is several steps behind the top two. Could they try to close the gap some by shifting more resources into basketball and dominating there? I don't know but I think it bears monitoring.
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Aughnanure

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2228 on: May 24, 2023, 09:43:46 AM »
The Big 12 is looking at most of the PAC 12, half the BEast, half the ACC, Gonzaga, and a handful of AAC and MWC schools. They won't end up taking most of them. My guess is that UConn doesn't make the cut.

I think the Big 12 wishes they didn't jump on UCF so quickly now. Beyond being a directional, it really spreads out the conference on the East coast right when it's clear could create an entire formidable mountain west/southwest bloc (Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah, BYU).

The East Coast(ish) side right now is just West Virginia, Cincinnati, and Central Florida and there's really no candidate out there that could help bridge that connection (Memphis is closer to Kansas and Iowa State).

“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

MU82

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2229 on: May 24, 2023, 09:45:46 AM »
However, I think we are heading for a world where the B1G/SEC dominate football (even more than they already have) and the B12 is the third power conference but is several steps behind the top two. Could they try to close the gap some by shifting more resources into basketball and dominating there? I don't know but I think it bears monitoring.

As long as Marquette is one of the schools that goes along for the ride, I don't think it would bother me very much. Many of us might even like it. Obviously, it's all speculation, and none of us will know what to make of it until it happens (or doesn't happen).
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Uncle Rico

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2230 on: May 24, 2023, 09:55:24 AM »
I think the Big 12 wishes they didn't jump on UCF so quickly now. Beyond being a directional, it really spreads out the conference on the East coast right when it's clear could create an entire formidable mountain west/southwest bloc (Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah, BYU).

The East Coast(ish) side right now is just West Virginia, Cincinnati, and Central Florida and there's really no candidate out there that could help bridge that connection (Memphis is closer to Kansas and Iowa State).

Disagree about UCF.  UCF is step one into Florida.  UCF has been aggressive in lobbying for inclusion which is ironic
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Aughnanure

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2231 on: May 24, 2023, 09:57:56 AM »
Disagree about UCF.  UCF is step one into Florida.  UCF has been aggressive in lobbying for inclusion which is ironic

Why is it ironic? Lobbying for inclusion of inclusion of the PAC schools? Not quite following.

I just dont see what step 2 would be and why anyone would view the #4 program in a state desirable.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

Uncle Rico

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2232 on: May 24, 2023, 10:00:36 AM »
Why is it ironic? Lobbying for inclusion of inclusion of the PAC schools? Not quite following.

I just dont see what step 2 would be and why anyone would view the #4 program in a state desirable.

UCF is in Florida and is desirable just based on that.  The top 3 weren’t attainable for the Big XII.
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dgies9156

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2233 on: May 24, 2023, 12:49:33 PM »
At some point, the remaining PAC 12 and the remaining Big 12 members will get religion and merge. They'll have a huge batch of programming and about 20 teams or so. Oregon, Washington, TCU, Oklahoma State and Deion U will still be part of the conversation.

If Deion does what Deion thinks he's going to do at Deion U (which is the same thing all of Buff Nation believes), the combined conferences will have a beautiful television profile. Who needs USC, UCLA, Texas and Oklahoma when you have Coach Prime!!!!!

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2234 on: May 24, 2023, 01:10:29 PM »
Why is it ironic? Lobbying for inclusion of inclusion of the PAC schools? Not quite following.

I just dont see what step 2 would be and why anyone would view the #4 program in a state desirable.


UCF is the largest university in Florida, in a booming part of the state, has on-field success and sells out a 45,000 seat stadium.
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DFW HOYA

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2235 on: May 24, 2023, 02:23:05 PM »
They can only be looking at Gonzaga and all Big East schools other than UConn if they're thinking about having a basketball-only division. Is that the case? Which 5-6 Big East schools do you think they're looking at?

What do you do with all the other sports?

MU82

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2236 on: May 24, 2023, 03:45:09 PM »
What do you do with all the other sports?

I know I said "basketball only," but I meant "non-football," and shoulda said that.

So you do with all the other sports the same thing we do with all the other sports now in the Big East. The St. John's women's tennis team would play the Kansas State women's tennis team, and the Marquette men's soccer team would play the Kansas men's soccer team. (If St. John's and Marquette were among those who went to the Big 12.)

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WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2237 on: May 24, 2023, 03:50:07 PM »

UCF is the largest university in Florida, in a booming part of the state, has on-field success and sells out a 45,000 seat stadium.
I myself was a 'drive by' critic of UCF a year ago. I have changed my view of that acquisition by 180 degrees. That could be the crown jewel of the Big XII expansion. 

Hards Alumni

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2238 on: May 25, 2023, 06:36:24 AM »
Not competitively, but culturally. BC has nothing in common with Clemson, with NC State, with Georgia Tech. The Tomahawk Chop  and The Tiger Rag is foreign to people in Boston who ride the T and who think winter is for hockey, not basketball.  So to with UConn in the AAC...er, Big 12. What do their fans share with Iowa State, UCF, or now BYU? When Texas Tech fans say "Guns Up!" it's a sign of welcome. Do that in Hartford and someone's calling 911.

Another example: Maryland in the Big 10. Does anyone care in Madison or Champaign when the Terrapins come to town? Maryland football attendance has actually decreased since joining the B10--an announced average of 39,848 a game last season, its lowest in 42 years. Maryland will make money but they will never be nationally competitive anymore: that's the Faustian bargain of these moves.

I may have said this before, but I really appreciate your views and takes around here.  Always making good points.

brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2239 on: May 25, 2023, 07:29:04 AM »
I may have said this before, but I really appreciate your views and takes around here.  Always making good points.

I would say that Xavier, Butler, and Creighton all benefited from joining the Big East. UConn as well in coming back.

But by and large, I feel that while many of these moves have been profitable for the athletic departments, how many have been good for the fans? How many fanbases of schools that made major moves feel they are in a better place now than they were 20 (or so) years ago?

In the ACC, how many of Boston College, Miami, Va Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, Notre Dame or Louisville feel better? Va Tech is probably the only one whose flagship program has been demonstrably better in the ACC than it was historically.

How about Nebraska, Maryland, or Rutgers in the Big 10? The only program markedly improved is Rutgers basketball, and that's probably related more to a good hire of Pikiell than league affiliation.

The Big 12 has been fantastic for TCU, there's really no arguing that, though I think it's been a clear step down for West Virginia, who is still the sore thumb of the league in terms of fit and location.

The Pac-12 added Colorado and Utah. The Buffaloes football is on life support, we'll see what Sanders does. Utah was already on the come when they entered the league and has been a strong addition. Neither basketball program has done much.

In the SEC, Mizzou and TAMU are richer, but I'm not sure they have been notably more successful. Those are probably the best case scenarios in football, though.

Honestly, I think conference realignment has been good for athletic departments and university executives, but nearly universally bad for fans. With rare exception (TCU, Va Tech) most of the programs that moved since the early 2000s shakeups have seen their levels of success decline in the sports they care most about. This is also the reason I want the Big East to stay as far away from football as it possibly can. When you start mish-mashing football programs across the country, the results are bad. Why would we want to introduce that to the one league that has been an unquestioned success since divorcing itself from the oblong devil?
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Hards Alumni

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2240 on: May 25, 2023, 10:09:38 AM »
Yep.  Agree, it was always a cash grab but it has changed rivalries etc for the the worse.

21Jumpstreet

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2241 on: May 25, 2023, 10:50:48 AM »
I used to live and die with Nebraska football especially against the Sooners. My first game in Lincoln was some 40 years ago against the Buffs. Big 8, Orange Bowls, National Championships, Thanksgiving weekend games, it was so much fun. With my dislike for Wisconsin, it has been a fun “rivalry” at times, although Nebraska now rarely beats UW. As a fan, I do miss the historical rivalries of my youth, and I’ve also grown out of many of my emotional swings based on sports. I still sometimes get incredibly excited to be sure.

Viper

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2242 on: May 25, 2023, 10:59:27 AM »
I used to live and die with Nebraska football especially against the Sooners. My first game in Lincoln was some 40 years ago against the Buffs. Big 8, Orange Bowls, National Championships, Thanksgiving weekend games, it was so much fun. With my dislike for Wisconsin, it has been a fun “rivalry” at times, although Nebraska now rarely beats UW. As a fan, I do miss the historical rivalries of my youth, and I’ve also grown out of many of my emotional swings based on sports. I still sometimes get incredibly excited to be sure.
100%. Nebraska - OU was the best. Texas -Texas A&M too. I too have moved past sports ups/downs…maybe 10 yrs of MU meh numbed my nerves, although my dislike for UW Dane Cty still burns hot.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2243 on: May 27, 2023, 07:11:15 PM »
McMurphy: Big 12 interest in UConn blown out of proportion.

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2244 on: May 27, 2023, 07:25:38 PM »
PAC12 showing (more) cracks?

Colorado AD: "In a perfect world, we'd love to be in the Pac-12, but we also have to do what's right for Colorado at the end of day. We'll evaluate things as we move forward"


El Guerrero 2

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2245 on: May 27, 2023, 08:53:41 PM »
PAC12 showing (more) cracks?

Colorado AD: "In a perfect world, we'd love to be in the Pac-12, but we also have to do what's right for Colorado at the end of day. We'll evaluate things as we move forward"

Funny comment coming from a school that just left the Big 12 a decade ago.

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2246 on: May 28, 2023, 07:40:39 AM »
Funny comment coming from a school that just left the Big 12 a decade ago.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2247 on: May 28, 2023, 08:01:14 AM »
Funny comment coming from a school that just left the Big 12 a decade ago.

And they left a demonstratively better Big 12 than the one they'd be joining. That's how bad the Pac 12 has been managed over the last decade. 

I get that there are legitimate disadvantages with their time-zone, and the football product has fallen with USC, Oregon and Washington slipping on the field.  I also understand that they did make a play for Texas and Oklahoma after the easy adds of Utah and Colorado, but the last decade just seems like they did nothing proactive. How you could mismanage a conference with those schools and that footprint is beyond me.
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GOO

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2248 on: May 28, 2023, 08:55:08 AM »
I would say that Xavier, Butler, and Creighton all benefited from joining the Big East. UConn as well in coming back.

But by and large, I feel that while many of these moves have been profitable for the athletic departments, how many have been good for the fans? How many fanbases of schools that made major moves feel they are in a better place now than they were 20 (or so) years ago?

In the ACC, how many of Boston College, Miami, Va Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, Notre Dame or Louisville feel better? Va Tech is probably the only one whose flagship program has been demonstrably better in the ACC than it was historically.

How about Nebraska, Maryland, or Rutgers in the Big 10? The only program markedly improved is Rutgers basketball, and that's probably related more to a good hire of Pikiell than league affiliation.

The Big 12 has been fantastic for TCU, there's really no arguing that, though I think it's been a clear step down for West Virginia, who is still the sore thumb of the league in terms of fit and location.

The Pac-12 added Colorado and Utah. The Buffaloes football is on life support, we'll see what Sanders does. Utah was already on the come when they entered the league and has been a strong addition. Neither basketball program has done much.

In the SEC, Mizzou and TAMU are richer, but I'm not sure they have been notably more successful. Those are probably the best case scenarios in football, though.

Honestly, I think conference realignment has been good for athletic departments and university executives, but nearly universally bad for fans. With rare exception (TCU, Va Tech) most of the programs that moved since the early 2000s shakeups have seen their levels of success decline in the sports they care most about. This is also the reason I want the Big East to stay as far away from football as it possibly can. When you start mish-mashing football programs across the country, the results are bad. Why would we want to introduce that to the one league that has been an unquestioned success since divorcing itself from the oblong devil?

When the big10 added Rutgers, I thought at some point there would be conferences for the main sport like football. But that at some point the lesser sports would form regional conferences. As conferences continue to go nationwide, it makes more and more sense.   I’m not sure that will happen until finances dictate it, but having a tennis team fly coast to coast doesn’t serve anyone’s interest.

muwarrior69

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2249 on: May 29, 2023, 05:43:36 AM »
Because Rutgers was primarily added to get the BTN on a primary cable tier in the NYC metro. Same with Maryland and DC.

...and as one who use to live only a mile from the Rutgers campus it has made Rutgers football relevant which in the past it never really was. Sure, they are no power house like Michigan, MSU, Ohio or even Wisconsin but here football is now legitimate. I can remember back in 1961 Rutgers went undefeated and there was a push for them to play a bowl game. Back then there was only the Orange, Cotton, Sugar and Rose bowls. Of course there were no invites. At least now Rutgers football is on the map.