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Author Topic: More conference realignment talk  (Read 318516 times)

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2275 on: June 01, 2023, 10:06:08 PM »
So we go back to 10 teams in that case and then add 2 (St Louis as one?)

Edit: and VCU?
ST THOMAS!!!!! and whoever to round it out to 12. Maybe Gonzaga or ND.  ;)

Scoop Snoop

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2276 on: June 01, 2023, 10:11:05 PM »
That said, the BE has done nothing to encourage intersectional meetings among its four football schools. UConn has played Villanova once since 1999, Villanova hasn't played Georgetown since 1950, and Georgetown has played Butler once ever.

Honest question (not trying to give you a hard time), but why do you think the BE should encourage intersectional FB meetings?
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2277 on: June 01, 2023, 10:25:34 PM »
So we go back to 10 teams in that case and then add 2 (St Louis as one?)

Edit: and VCU?

I have posted many times about VCU. I lived in Richmond for over 20 years. The school, students, and the entire city all really support the bball team Big Time! Georgetown does not have a legit complaint with proximity in my opinion since the DC area and the rest of Virginia are like two different worlds. The horrendous DC traffic makes the drive into the District much longer than you might expect for the relatively short (110 miles) distance between the two metro areas. Now the value of the Richmond metro market and the rest of Virginia? I can see where that may give the BE and Fox reason to pause. Not sure how lucrative the market is compared to other potential members.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2023, 10:50:46 PM by Scoop Snoop »
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

Dickthedribbler

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2278 on: June 01, 2023, 10:28:46 PM »
So we go back to 10 teams in that case and then add 2 (St Louis as one?)

Edit: and VCU?

Going back to 10 teams would be OK ( at least for the time being ).

Adding St Louis and VCU would be extremely depressing.

jfp61

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2279 on: June 02, 2023, 12:33:52 AM »
you call the two good remaining WCC schools. you hope for the best. Hang up the phone after that, and wait for the Magnificent seven to implode the ACC

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2280 on: June 02, 2023, 06:27:55 AM »
Honestly any expansion is about maximizing media rights revenue.  As you approach the next deal, you figure out with potential partners what will be the most lucrative adds. It doesn't matter if that's VCU, SLU or Dayton.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

El Guerrero 2

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2281 on: June 02, 2023, 07:16:05 AM »
you call the two good remaining WCC schools. you hope for the best. Hang up the phone after that, and wait for the Magnificent seven to implode the ACC

Whatever columnist came up with the name “Magnificent 7” should be fired.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2282 on: June 02, 2023, 07:37:45 AM »
Honestly any expansion is about maximizing media rights revenue.  As you approach the next deal, you figure out with potential partners what will be the most lucrative adds. It doesn't matter if that's VCU, SLU or Dayton.

True. I wish that it was not, but the reality is that any additional BE members is pretty much a business decision. Of course, I have an ulterior motive for wanting VCU. Richmond is an easy day trip for me.
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

Coleman

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2283 on: June 02, 2023, 09:05:06 AM »
Honestly any expansion is about maximizing media rights revenue.  As you approach the next deal, you figure out with potential partners what will be the most lucrative adds. It doesn't matter if that's VCU, SLU or Dayton.

I agree with you. And if that's the case, its Gonzaga. Geography be damned.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2284 on: June 02, 2023, 09:26:00 AM »
So we go back to 10 teams in that case and then add 2 (St Louis as one?)

Edit: and VCU?

ABD

The Equalizer

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2285 on: June 02, 2023, 10:06:51 AM »
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics link=topic=62146.msg1554536#msg1554536 date=
Honestly any expansion is about maximizing media rights revenue.  As you approach the next deal, you figure out with potential partners what will be the most lucrative adds. It doesn't matter if that's VCU, SLU or Dayton.

The Big East has to decide if it wants to have the best basketball conference top to bottom or have the best media deal.

At this point, inventory will be a bigger driver of value to the networks than individual team selection. With 11 teams today, the Big East offers media partners 10 to 11 games per week.  If UConn leaves and you replace them with two new teams, inventory will increase to 12 games/week--and as discussions here have shown, there really aren't two teams you can add without diluting the quality of the league.   And you're not really increasing inventory that much.

Thinking out loud, the most lucrative deal from a league standpoint might be to merge with the WCC to form a 20-team league and offer the networks a solid 4-game block on your game days.  First game at 6 PM local on the east coast, the second at 8 PM eastern/7 Central, the third at 9 Central/7 Pacific, and the fourth at 9 Pacific.  That would give Val more negotiating power with the nets via a doubling of the inventory she can offer.

To protect the current BE teams, you play an unbalanced schedule so you could feature your marquee matchups (Villanova/Gonzaga, Marquette Santa Clara, Creighton/St. Marys) but limit dilution of the NET ratings from playing Pepperdine or Pacific.

SaveOD238

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2286 on: June 02, 2023, 10:30:37 AM »
The Big East has to decide if it wants to have the best basketball conference top to bottom or have the best media deal.

At this point, inventory will be a bigger driver of value to the networks than individual team selection. With 11 teams today, the Big East offers media partners 10 to 11 games per week.  If UConn leaves and you replace them with two new teams, inventory will increase to 12 games/week--and as discussions here have shown, there really aren't two teams you can add without diluting the quality of the league.   And you're not really increasing inventory that much.

Thinking out loud, the most lucrative deal from a league standpoint might be to merge with the WCC to form a 20-team league and offer the networks a solid 4-game block on your game days.  First game at 6 PM local on the east coast, the second at 8 PM eastern/7 Central, the third at 9 Central/7 Pacific, and the fourth at 9 Pacific.  That would give Val more negotiating power with the nets via a doubling of the inventory she can offer.

To protect the current BE teams, you play an unbalanced schedule so you could feature your marquee matchups (Villanova/Gonzaga, Marquette Santa Clara, Creighton/St. Marys) but limit dilution of the NET ratings from playing Pepperdine or Pacific.

Let's go nuts.  Take 30 of the best non-football schools and throw them in one conference with a three tier pro-rel system.  When SLU is good, they can ball with Nova and MU and Gonzaga.  When they suck, they'll hang out with Loyola and Bradley in some middle tier. DePaul can hang out in tier 3 but enjoy the beautiful views from Pepperdine's campus.

Imagine the joy in Minneapolis when St Thomas becomes the Luton Town of this new arrangement.

SaveOD238

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2287 on: June 02, 2023, 10:43:21 AM »
Let's go nuts.  Take 30 of the best non-football schools and throw them in one conference with a three tier pro-rel system.  When SLU is good, they can ball with Nova and MU and Gonzaga.  When they suck, they'll hang out with Loyola and Bradley in some middle tier. DePaul can hang out in tier 3 but enjoy the beautiful views from Pepperdine's campus.

Imagine the joy in Minneapolis when St Thomas becomes the Luton Town of this new arrangement.

Now I'm not working because of this.  Hear me out:

Division 1 (bottom 2 relegated)
Gonzaga
Marquette
Creighton
St Marys
Xavier
Providence
Nova
Seton Hall
VCU
Dayton

Division 2 (top 2 promoted, bottom 3 relegated)
St Johns
Drake
Santa Clara
Bradley
SLU
San Fran
Loyola Marymount
Butler
Duquesne
DePaul

Division 3 (top 3 promoted)
Fordham
Davidson
Seattle
George Mason
Richmond
Portland
Pepperdine
St Josephs
Pacific
Bonnie's
UMass
San Diego
Loyola Chicago
Rhode Island

Give each division a tournament and an AQ.  Division 3 is a 1 bid league.  Division 2 could get two in a good year.  Division 1 is the best league in the country and challenges for 7-8 bids year-in and year-out.

Keep non-revenue sports in traditional alignments.

shoothoops

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2288 on: June 02, 2023, 10:48:58 AM »
One thing people can look up is what is a school’s commitment to basketball vs its peers in its league. That’s apples to apples. Then if and when that school joins the Big East or any other league, is that school competitive with the upper echelon of the league with resources, facilities. budgets,  etc…?

This is the Department of Education link to compare and contrast schools:

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

El Guerrero 2

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2289 on: June 02, 2023, 10:54:34 AM »
Now I'm not working because of this.  Hear me out:

Division 1 (bottom 2 relegated)
Gonzaga
Marquette
Creighton
St Marys
Xavier
Providence
Nova
Seton Hall
VCU
Dayton

Division 2 (top 2 promoted, bottom 3 relegated)
St Johns
Drake
Santa Clara
Bradley
SLU
San Fran
Loyola Marymount
Butler
Duquesne
DePaul

Division 3 (top 3 promoted)
Fordham
Davidson
Seattle
George Mason
Richmond
Portland
Pepperdine
St Josephs
Pacific
Bonnie's
UMass
San Diego
Loyola Chicago
Rhode Island

Give each division a tournament and an AQ.  Division 3 is a 1 bid league.  Division 2 could get two in a good year.  Division 1 is the best league in the country and challenges for 7-8 bids year-in and year-out.

Keep non-revenue sports in traditional alignments.

So much shade being cast on St. John’s here lol

I like the concept but I don’t think you’d ever get buy in from the Big East schools for this. Relegation sounds fun in theory, until you hire a Wojo and have to worry about becoming peers with Pacific…

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2290 on: June 02, 2023, 11:03:08 AM »
Now I'm not working because of this.  Hear me out:

Division 1 (bottom 2 relegated)
Gonzaga
Marquette
Creighton
St Marys
Xavier
Providence
Nova
Seton Hall
VCU
Dayton

Division 2 (top 2 promoted, bottom 3 relegated)
St Johns
Drake
Santa Clara
Bradley
SLU
San Fran
Loyola Marymount
Butler
Duquesne
DePaul

Division 3 (top 3 promoted)
Fordham
Davidson
Seattle
George Mason
Richmond
Portland
Pepperdine
St Josephs
Pacific
Bonnie's
UMass
San Diego
Loyola Chicago
Rhode Island

Give each division a tournament and an AQ.  Division 3 is a 1 bid league.  Division 2 could get two in a good year.  Division 1 is the best league in the country and challenges for 7-8 bids year-in and year-out.

Keep non-revenue sports in traditional alignments.

Love this idea. Will never ever happen. But I love it.
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


lawdog77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2291 on: June 02, 2023, 11:31:48 AM »
Getting players to play for this would be a tough sell IMO.

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2292 on: June 02, 2023, 12:16:59 PM »
Getting players to play for this would be a tough sell IMO.
That's what they get paid for.

Coleman

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2293 on: June 02, 2023, 02:00:29 PM »
Now I'm not working because of this.  Hear me out:

Division 1 (bottom 2 relegated)
Gonzaga
Marquette
Creighton
St Marys
Xavier
Providence
Nova
Seton Hall
VCU
Dayton

Division 2 (top 2 promoted, bottom 3 relegated)
St Johns
Drake
Santa Clara
Bradley
SLU
San Fran
Loyola Marymount
Butler
Duquesne
DePaul

Division 3 (top 3 promoted)
Fordham
Davidson
Seattle
George Mason
Richmond
Portland
Pepperdine
St Josephs
Pacific
Bonnie's
UMass
San Diego
Loyola Chicago
Rhode Island

Give each division a tournament and an AQ.  Division 3 is a 1 bid league.  Division 2 could get two in a good year.  Division 1 is the best league in the country and challenges for 7-8 bids year-in and year-out.

Keep non-revenue sports in traditional alignments.

Dayton over St. Johns? No.

I feel like you'd have to include some games against other divisions for it to truly be considered a single conference. How would that work?

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2294 on: June 02, 2023, 02:34:34 PM »
Dayton over St. Johns? No.

I feel like you'd have to include some games against other divisions for it to truly be considered a single conference. How would that work?
I think you are putting way too much thought into this.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2295 on: June 02, 2023, 02:43:33 PM »
So much shade being cast on St. John’s here lol

Dayton over St. Johns? No.

For those who don't understand what SaveOD did, he listed the teams in order of last season's KenPom finish
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2296 on: June 02, 2023, 02:44:45 PM »
Reading the ESPN article https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/37781820/big-12-talks-expansion-source-says-commish-touts-plan, UCONN sounds like a basketball only candidate for the Big XII, a guess to even out a theoretical Gonzaga addition. Where would UCONN put their other sports?

Regardless the article points out the presidents are not doing anything until the PAC12 mess is resolved.   

mug644

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2297 on: June 02, 2023, 02:48:20 PM »
Now I'm not working because of this.  Hear me out:

Division 1 (bottom 2 relegated)
Gonzaga
Marquette
Creighton
St Marys
Xavier
Providence
Nova
Seton Hall
VCU
Dayton

Division 2 (top 2 promoted, bottom 3 relegated)
St Johns
Drake
Santa Clara
Bradley
SLU
San Fran
Loyola Marymount
Butler
Duquesne
DePaul

Division 3 (top 3 promoted)
Fordham
Davidson
Seattle
George Mason
Richmond
Portland
Pepperdine
St Josephs
Pacific
Bonnie's
UMass
San Diego
Loyola Chicago
Rhode Island

Give each division a tournament and an AQ.  Division 3 is a 1 bid league.  Division 2 could get two in a good year.  Division 1 is the best league in the country and challenges for 7-8 bids year-in and year-out.

Keep non-revenue sports in traditional alignments.

I get that the premise is that UConn will have moved elsewhere, by why no Georgetown?

lawdog77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2298 on: June 02, 2023, 02:53:19 PM »
I get that the premise is that UConn will have moved elsewhere, by why no Georgetown?
Who?

SaveOD238

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2299 on: June 02, 2023, 02:56:29 PM »
I get that the premise is that UConn will have moved elsewhere, by why no Georgetown?

I only get a 25 minute lunch before the freshmen come back to my classroom.  Cut me some slack.

 

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