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Author Topic: More conference realignment talk  (Read 111509 times)

jesmu84

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GoldenWarrior11

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2021, 10:40:55 AM »
Eh.  Not really conference realignment, as it is unlikely any of the Big Ten, ACC or PAC actually change conferences (at least in the near-term).  This is simply an alliance that would outnumber the SEC, and maintain some semblance of balance among the power conferences.  Long-term, it should be very telling that the ADs from Virginia, UNC and Clemson are on the Alliance Committee.  The Big Ten will go hard after UVA and UNC in a number of years (when the GOR of the ACC ends).

The Big 12 is unofficially locked out.  I’d look for them to raid the AAC in the coming months.  Eliminate the remaining tweener conference and take its place.

Dawson Rental

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2021, 08:15:15 AM »
It's interesting that Conferences can get so far along on realignment while the NCAA can't get any disciplinary hearings done.

Maybe Texas and Oklahoma leaving the Big 12 is the punishment for Kansas' basketball infractions!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 02:35:30 PM by Dawson Rental »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2021, 09:18:40 AM »
Interesting analysis by a contract attorney regarding Grant of Rights on the holyland site. Xudash is the poster who quoted him yesterday. I'm guessing that it is inappropriate to copy the holyland comments here. Apparently the rights are not as cut and dried as we legal laymen believe. Thoughts?
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WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2021, 10:21:14 AM »
My guess is that the grant of media rights are firm or Texas and Oklahoma would be gone by now.

Herman Cain

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2021, 10:44:30 AM »
Interesting analysis by a contract attorney regarding Grant of Rights on the holyland site. Xudash is the poster who quoted him yesterday. I'm guessing that it is inappropriate to copy the holyland comments here. Apparently the rights are not as cut and dried as we legal laymen believe. Thoughts?
Here is an article regarding the grant of rights at the time UT and Oklahoma announced they would not renew.

https://www.normantranscript.com/oklahoma/ou-texas-will-not-renew-grant-of-rights-agreement-with-big-12/article_8f3740d8-ee1c-11eb-af40-63f55eda648c.html
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Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2021, 11:03:23 AM »
My guess is that the grant of media rights are firm or Texas and Oklahoma would be gone by now.


My guess is that they will make a push in the coming months to leave earlier.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Big Papi

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2021, 03:29:05 PM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-case-for-kansas-to-join-the-big-east/ar-AANDA9E?ocid=msedgntp


An article making the case that Kansas should join the Big East.  Will never happen but it is a read.

MU86NC

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2021, 10:02:04 PM »
It makes sense to me…

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2021, 10:31:41 PM »
Does anyone not believe that the Big 10, SEC and ACC wants the Big 12, Big East  AAC, etc. to go away?

The writing is on the wall in big bold letters.

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2021, 10:43:05 PM »
Does anyone not believe that the Big 10, SEC and ACC wants the Big 12, Big East  AAC, etc. to go away?

The writing is on the wall in big bold letters.

They want them diminished but not away. They do want the bottom 150-250 teams to go away.

Cutting off schools with large fanbases shrinks their viewership and their bottom line. If college football/basketball devolves into just another semi-pro league, it will lose it's value. The Big 4 want to set up a system where they control a majority of the pie but the Big 12s, Big Easts, and AACs of the world are still a part of it.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2021, 11:40:23 PM »
They want them diminished but not away. They do want the bottom 150-250 teams to go away.

Cutting off schools with large fanbases shrinks their viewership and their bottom line. If college football/basketball devolves into just another semi-pro league, it will lose it's value. The Big 4 want to set up a system where they control a majority of the pie but the Big 12s, Big Easts, and AACs of the world are still a part of it.
I think you are right but I don't believe they think like you and I. MU, OK St., Kansas, Villanova,, etc. are not big time programs. Big college football programs bring in $30MM plus.  Basketball programs bring in $4MM  or much less.

I hope I am wrong  but I can't see a future where the SEC and Big East coexist.

That said, I think the rest of the NCAA schools can compete in there own bubble.

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2021, 12:09:17 AM »
I think you are right but I don't believe they think like you and I. MU, OK St., Kansas, Villanova,, etc. are not big time programs. Big college football programs bring in $30MM plus.  Basketball programs bring in $4MM  or much less.

I hope I am wrong  but I can't see a future where the SEC and Big East coexist.

That said, I think the rest of the NCAA schools can compete in there own bubble.

I don't think they think like us either. But they do understand money better than either of us. I think they recognize that a 4 conference league will not be as financially viable as one that includes additional conferences.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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And the wisdom to know the difference.

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Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2021, 07:32:32 AM »
I don't think they think like us either. But they do understand money better than either of us. I think they recognize that a 4 conference league will not be as financially viable as one that includes additional conferences.


Right.  It's not like they split the television money with the lower tiers.  And with NCAA tournament credits in place, they take most of what the NCAA distributes to the schools anyway.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2021, 07:45:55 AM »
I don't think they think like us either. But they do understand money better than either of us. I think they recognize that a 4 conference league will not be as financially viable as one that includes additional conferences.
I agree but a four conference league is where we are headed with football. Some think it will end up with one conference of 32.  I don't know if Purdue, Syracuse,  Arizona or the like will make the cut.

At minimum small schools like Wake Forest, Duke, TCU  and Northwestern  are on the chopping block.  They don't bring value to football.

Uncle Rico

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2021, 07:50:55 AM »
I agree but a four conference league is where we are headed with football. Some think it will end up with one conference of 32.  I don't know if Purdue, Syracuse,  Arizona or the like will make the cut.

At minimum small schools like Wake Forest, Duke, TCU  and Northwestern  are on the chopping block.  They don't bring value to football.

The Big 14 will never allow Northwestern to not be included
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Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2021, 07:52:33 AM »
I don't see any scenario where there are going to be four, 8 team conferences in football.  That doesn't generate enough games to fill television schedules, which is the primary way the smaller schools provide value.
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Herman Cain

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2021, 08:36:00 AM »
I agree but a four conference league is where we are headed with football. Some think it will end up with one conference of 32.  I don't know if Purdue, Syracuse,  Arizona or the like will make the cut.

At minimum small schools like Wake Forest, Duke, TCU  and Northwestern  are on the chopping block.  They don't bring value to football.
https://dailynorthwestern.com/2021/08/08/sports/football-breaking-down-every-game-on-northwesterns-2021-schedule/
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WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2021, 08:38:02 AM »
The Big 14 will never allow Northwestern to not be included
Yet Kansas and national champion Baylor are now irrelevant.  Never say never.

If basketball was important,  Kansas would have been in the Big 10 years ago.

Schools like Kansas. Arizona,  Vanderbilt and Northwestern bring very little to the table.

I agree that having more schools with a chance to compete is better for college sports but the big conferences and ESPN  don't want it.

Pro sports understand that the Packers, Royals and Spurs are valuable teams but colleges don't seem to get it.

dgies9156

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2021, 08:40:14 AM »
I agree but a four conference league is where we are headed with football. Some think it will end up with one conference of 32.  I don't know if Purdue, Syracuse,  Arizona or the like will make the cut.

At minimum small schools like Wake Forest, Duke, TCU  and Northwestern  are on the chopping block.  They don't bring value to football.

Brother Trash,

I got my head handed to me for saying exactly the same thing about Vanderbilt. They've never won the SEC -- and are now the only legacy SEC member never to have won. Vanderbilt belongs in the SEC about as much as Middle Tennessee State does. They'll never leave because the dollars are way too great.


Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2021, 08:47:31 AM »
I agree that having more schools with a chance to compete is better for college sports but the big conferences and ESPN  don't want it.


You keep saying this, but is this really the case?  ESPN has contracts with the AAC, MAC, and Sun Belt.  The one with the AAC was signed less than two years ago and runs through 2032 and is worth $1 billion over that time.  The Sun Belt contract was just finalized this summer and runs through 2031. 

They also own the rights to pretty much all of the bowl games, which are filled with smaller programs

That's a strange way of not wanting them around.

And the big schools don't much care as long as it doesn't impact their revenue.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 08:49:20 AM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
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WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2021, 09:12:02 AM »

You keep saying this, but is this really the case?  ESPN has contracts with the AAC, MAC, and Sun Belt.  The one with the AAC was signed less than two years ago and runs through 2032 and is worth $1 billion over that time.  The Sun Belt contract was just finalized this summer and runs through 2031. 

They also own the rights to pretty much all of the bowl games, which are filled with smaller programs

That's a strange way of not wanting them around.

And the big schools don't much care as long as it doesn't impact their revenue.
Good points but my point was that the big schools and ESPN don't want small programs to have a chance to compete.  I didn't claim that ESPN wants the small conferences to fold, they just don't want them in play for a championship. I think we can all agree the AAC's contract is very small compared to the P5.

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2021, 09:32:58 AM »
I agree but a four conference league is where we are headed with football. Some think it will end up with one conference of 32.  I don't know if Purdue, Syracuse,  Arizona or the like will make the cut.

At minimum small schools like Wake Forest, Duke, TCU  and Northwestern  are on the chopping block.  They don't bring value to football.

You can say that like a fact, but that doesn't make it so. Yes, the power is going to get consolidated even more than it already is in the top 4 conferences, but that doesn't mean that they are kicking out every other conference and the lesser schools in the top 4 conferences. Schools like Wake Forest, Duke, TCU, and Northwestern do bring tremendous value to football. They add league games to fill television slots which is the primary way that these schools make money.

Good points but my point was that the big schools and ESPN don't want small programs to have a chance to compete.  I didn't claim that ESPN wants the small conferences to fold, they just don't want them in play for a championship. I think we can all agree the AAC's contract is very small compared to the P5.

"Don't want them in play for a championship" is very different from what you've been saying. And they've already accomplished that. No team outside the P5 (soon to be P4) has ever made the CFP. They don't need to jettison them to prevent them from competing for a championship.

And I don't think the same is true for basketball.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 09:39:37 AM by TAMU Eagle »
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2021, 09:36:17 AM »
That said, I think the rest of the NCAA schools can compete in there own bubble.

Also, this is exactly why if there ever was a split of the P4 from the rest of the NCAA, conferences like the B12, Big East, AAC, Mountain West, A10, etc, would be taken as well. No way they would want another league to compete with, especially if that either league looks more like college basketball and their league looks more like the g-league.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2021, 09:49:27 AM »
"Don't want them in play for a championship" is very different from what you've been saying. And they've already accomplished that. No team outside the P5 (soon to be P4) has ever made the CFP. They don't need to jettison them to prevent them from competing for a championship.

And I don't think the same is true for basketball.
I get it. But if you're Northwestern,  Duke , Iowa St. or Arizona you at least have(d) a small chance.

As for basketball,  I agree it is different but football is the driving force in college sports. The revenues are 10X that of basketball.

Why did Texas leave a conference that it could possibly win and get to the CFP to be the 6th best team in the SEC?  Money?