More conference realignment talk

[SaveOD238]

One of my recurring objections to the BE affiliating with Dayton basketball is delusion and fan stupidity.

Delusional fans are what will get Dayton the BE invite.  Why? Because delusional fans CARE and will watch the games.  More eyeballs = more money.

I'd be interested to see the ratings numbers for the A10 (and other) schools that are on the radar.  Are there lots of alumni who tune in to watch regularly, even when the team is bad?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

More evidence of Detroit Mercy silliness.

When Marquette joined the MCC (now known as the Horizon League), the following were members: Butler, Evansville, Loyola, Xavier, St. Louis, Dayton and Detroit Mercy.  Since Marquette left in 1990, the following schools joined, but left for greener pastures: Duquesne, La Salle, UIC, NIU and Valparaiso.

Detroit is the only school left from those days - the only school not to be invited to leave.  So they'd be a better Big East invite than Dayton? LOL...

Look, I know we give Dayton crap. But they have a decent history and a good fanbase. Don't get me wrong - they are definitely not on the A-list. But if a media partner wants us to add two or three programs to generate more product and makes it worthwhile for the members, they are certainly right there.

[tower912]

Yes

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

It's just an opinion piece, but listed 6 universities to consider if the BE did expand.  The usual suspects and one out-of-the-box.
(Thearticle came up in my Google sports news feed!?)

Big East Basketball: 6 potential options to replace UConn if they leave for Big 12
https://bustingbrackets.com/2023/06/02/big-east-basketball-6-potential-options-replace-uconn-leave/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Florida Atlantic isn't giving up an FBS football conference to join the Big East.

[Litehouse]

I still don't see the point in expanding, even if UConn leaves.  I find it hard to believe any school other than Gonzaga adds enough to make it a net positive for each school financially.  Plus, schools like Marquette, Creighton, Xavier, and DePaul all compete against SLU and Dayton for regular students, and offering a Big East basketball experience gives us a differentiating factor for attracting those students.  Elevating SLU and Dayton to the Big East will take that away.

[Coleman]

I still don't see the point in expanding, even if UConn leaves.  I find it hard to believe any school other than Gonzaga adds enough to make it a net positive for each school financially.  Plus, schools like Marquette, Creighton, Xavier, and DePaul all compete against SLU and Dayton for regular students, and offering a Big East basketball experience gives us a differentiating factor for attracting those students.  Elevating SLU and Dayton to the Big East will take that away.

I am by no means an expert in this, so I don't know if UConn left, whether it would be more beneficial to stay at 10, or say move to 12 with Dayton and SLU. It all comes down to the math of a TV deal.

If adding those two markets adds enough revenue to the TV deal when you divide it by 12, more goes to each school, then it would probably be worthwhile. If it ends up as less for each school than a 10 team TV deal, you don't do it. I think its really as simple as that. I don't know what the actual outcome of that math would be. But if the Big East is consulting with Fox Sports and they tell them one way or the other, that's probably the route they would go.

I do think adding SLU and Dayton would dilute the product on the floor, but if it means more money, that may not matter.

I'd obviously rather keep UConn and add Gonzaga to get to 12, but that may or may not be a possibility.

[lawdog77]

I am by no means an expert in this, so I don't know if UConn left, whether it would be more beneficial to stay at 10, or say move to 12 with Dayton and SLU. It all comes down to the math of a TV deal.

If adding those two markets adds enough revenue to the TV deal when you divide it by 12, more goes to each school, then it would probably be worthwhile. If it ends up as less for each school than a 10 team TV deal, you don't do it. I think its really as simple as that. I don't know what the actual outcome of that math would be. But if the Big East is consulting with Fox Sports and they tell them one way or the other, that's probably the route they would go.

I'd obviously rather keep UConn and add Gonzaga to get to 12, but that may or may not be a possibility.

Just a hunch, but if the Big12 adds basketball schools, we're on that train with UConn, Nova, and Gonzaga.

[Warriors4ever]

I don’t know, do we want football schools deciding everything for us again?

[dgies9156]

If UConn leaves -- and I sure hope they don't -- I'd do nothing until we know more about the lay of the land with conference realignment.

It makes no sense to further water down the product with Dayton, SLU, Detroit, St. Thomas, VCU or even Memphis until we know more about the ACC in conference realignment. If we stay strong and somehow add Duke and Wake Forest, man we'd be good!

Of the listed group above, the only one I'd take would be Memphis but that presents a football problem for Memphis. And, yes, if Gonzaga came calling, I'd admit them, no questions asked.

Admittedly, I'm not the decision maker!

[🏀]

I asked ChatGPT.

While conference realignment decisions depend on various factors, including geographical location, market potential, and athletic competitiveness, here are some programs that could potentially make sense to move to the Big East Conference:

University of Connecticut (UConn): UConn was a longtime member of the Big East Conference but moved to the American Athletic Conference (AAC) in 2013. Considering its historical association and rivalry with Big East schools, UConn's return to the conference has been speculated and, in fact, happened after my knowledge cutoff in 2021. UConn's men's and women's basketball programs have a strong tradition and would strengthen the Big East's basketball profile.

Wichita State University: Wichita State's basketball program has achieved considerable success, particularly on the men's side, reaching the Final Four in 2013. Their addition to the Big East would add another competitive team and enhance the conference's basketball reputation.

Saint Louis University: Saint Louis has had success in basketball in recent years and has a strong following in the Midwest. Its inclusion in the Big East would provide the conference with another competitive program in a solid market.

Davidson College: Davidson is a smaller school with a rich basketball tradition, highlighted by Steph Curry's impressive college career. Adding Davidson would bring a dedicated fan base and a competitive program to the Big East.

Richmond University: Richmond has had success in basketball, particularly in the Atlantic 10 Conference. The addition of Richmond would expand the Big East's footprint and strengthen its basketball competitiveness.

It's important to note that these suggestions are speculative and based on the landscape up to my knowledge cutoff in 2021. Conference realignment decisions involve complex negotiations and considerations that go beyond just basketball programs. Actual conference realignment decisions are made by university administrations, conference commissioners, and other relevant stakeholders.

[MU82]

I'd absolutely add Davidson ... but only on the condition that Steph Curry plays for them the entirety of their time in the Big East.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I still don't see the point in expanding, even if UConn leaves.  I find it hard to believe any school other than Gonzaga adds enough to make it a net positive for each school financially.  Plus, schools like Marquette, Creighton, Xavier, and DePaul all compete against SLU and Dayton for regular students, and offering a Big East basketball experience gives us a differentiating factor for attracting those students.  Elevating SLU and Dayton to the Big East will take that away.

The only benefit it would bring is that it would generate more content for the media partner. 11 teams playing a 20 game schedule = 110 conference games.  14 teams playing a 20 game schedule = 140 games.

Does that make the pie so much bigger that everyone benefits?  IMO it is doubtful, which I think it is unlikely we will see expansion unless UConn does leave.

[rgoode57]

The money, or potential money in a tv deal will probably be the determining factor at the end of the day. However, it seems to me that the BE road to remaining a unique and intriguing product lies in its identity, and a huge part of that identity are the schools themselves. I was not a fan of adding UConn since I very much liked the notion of an all-Catholic, all-private league. But, I also understood the reason for adding UConn, especially since they were part of the original BE. However, if UConn leaves, which I doubt, it provides the opportunity to cement the identity of the identity of the BE by adding another private school. SLU makes some sense, though I do not know if they are willing to invest in their facilities to the extent necessary to play in the BE. But, adding a school like Memphis or Wichita State not only confuses the identity but also the general public perception. Maybe the schools in the BE are not of Ivy League quality, but they are all sure as hell much better regarded than Memphis or WSU.

The downside to SLU is that St. Louis is not a hotbed of basketball. I lived in St. Louis for several years and was always amazed that basketball just did not seem to be on the radar of many people. Two NBA teams have failed there as well as one teams in the old ABA. It is a baseball / hockey town.

I personally would not object to Dayton being in the BE, but I am not sure what they do for the league except add another body.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I know this isn't your main point rgoode, but the BE wasn't "all-Catholic" before the addition of UConn. (Butler)

[rgoode57]

You are correct about Butler. My bad.

[Dickthedribbler]

In the current realignment climate, the one place I would NOT want to be is a nationally recognized school that plays historically good basketball and historically crappy football.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In the current realignment climate, the one place I would NOT want to be is a nationally recognized school that plays historically good basketball and historically crappy football.

I mean UConn just won the National Championship.  Id swap with them

[TallTitan34]

My preference if UCONN leaves is to stay at 10. 

I'll admit when UCONN wanted to return, I wanted no part in the Big East adding football school figuring they'd leave in this very situation.  But the league got an entrance fee, an exit fee (if they leave), and it really won't hurt anything.

I would stay at 10 unless the following schools somehow needed a home:
- Notre Dame
- Duke
- Syracuse (fading but good Big East history-I realize they f'd the original league over)
- Kansas (in the now unlikely event the Big XII collapses and they can't find a home)

Gonzaga is too far away so I'd pass on them.

[TallTitan34]

Side question: Does UCONN lose it's tournament credits to the Big East if they bolt?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Side question: Does UCONN lose it's tournament credits to the Big East if they bolt?

Those are the conferences to begin with. All tourney credits are split between the conference.

If UConn leaves, take their $30 mil and tell them to enjoy mediocre basketball once again.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Side question: Does UCONN lose it's tournament credits to the Big East if they bolt?

I would guess they do.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Side question: Does UCONN lose it's tournament credits to the Big East if they bolt?

Yes, I've seen indicated in several of the articles out there.

[WhiteTrash]

It makes no sense to further water down the product with Dayton, SLU, Detroit, St. Thomas, VCU or even Memphis until we know more about the ACC in conference realignment. If we stay strong and somehow add Duke and Wake Forest, man we'd be good!

Your inclusion of St. Thomas makes it looks like your missing out on the running joke. MU to the Big 10 is a more likely scenario than St. Thomas to the BE. 

[Litehouse]

The only benefit it would bring is that it would generate more content for the media partner. 11 teams playing a 20 game schedule = 110 conference games.  14 teams playing a 20 game schedule = 140 games.

Does that make the pie so much bigger that everyone benefits?  IMO it is doubtful, which I think it is unlikely we will see expansion unless UConn does leave.

I don't know the details of these TV contract negotiations, but doesn't FOX currently get first dibs on all our home non-conference games as well?  If they're just looking for content, all the Big East teams can still schedule non-conference games to fill that void.


Ultimately, we'll get a number with expansion and without expansion and see what's more on a per school basis, but the expansion number better be significantly bigger to justify making a change like this.  I'm in the camp that we should just hang tight until we see what happens with the ACC.