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Author Topic: More conference realignment talk  (Read 25333 times)

MarquetteMike1977

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #175 on: September 13, 2021, 09:10:47 PM »
I wouldn't sleep on Kansas football now that Lance Leipold is there.
Agree was lucky to sit next to Lance Leopold at a table for a banquet dinner where he was an awesome speaker and seemed very intelligent about football and in general.

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #176 on: September 14, 2021, 03:39:51 AM »
Agree was lucky to sit next to Lance Leopold at a table for a banquet dinner where he was an awesome speaker and seemed very intelligent about football and in general.

Lance is a great guy who will take Kansas back to bowl games. But it will take time. He’s a builder - not a quick fix guy. His AD at Buffalo was patient and he will need the same now.
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The Lens

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #177 on: September 14, 2021, 09:59:50 AM »
Lance is a great guy who will take Kansas back to bowl games. But it will take time. He’s a builder - not a quick fix guy. His AD at Buffalo was patient and he will need the same now.

Agree...I think the upside is 8, maybe 9 wins but that's pretty good for Kansas.
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dgies9156

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #178 on: September 14, 2021, 11:14:14 AM »

Most college football programs lose money - at all levels.  Yet schools still keep them.  They clearly have value of some sort.

For the Power 5, the "profitability" of a football team is a joke. Everything depends on how costs are allocated.

If you look at football, you have to consider a Contribution Margin, which is the net income before allocation of fixed overhead charges. In short, how much revenue and athletic department resources support football. For example, Under Title 9, male and female scholarships have to be equal. That's fine and nobody is arguing it. But, how do you account for it? Do the incremental scholarships that would not be awarded to women were it not for football get allocated to football? Same for sports that would not exist were it not for legally required parity.

There's no real requirement that college programs use GAAP nor is there any real GAAP for colleges that allow us to compare. That's why I think the whole thing is BS.

JWags85

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #179 on: September 14, 2021, 11:46:46 AM »
Lance is a great guy who will take Kansas back to bowl games. But it will take time. He’s a builder - not a quick fix guy. His AD at Buffalo was patient and he will need the same now.

Wish him more success than the last Buffalo--->Kansas HC transition.  Hopefully KU is patient.  But he needed to make the move.  Incredible coach, but he's 57, not many good P5 programs were gonna take a 60 year old who had never coached or coordinated at the P5 level, regardless of his success.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #180 on: September 14, 2021, 12:32:49 PM »
Schools find value in football regardless if it’s “profitable” or not. It’s a marketing tool.

and that value is TV money. The AAC schools get nearly $3 million more annually from TV than the Big East schools. The Big 12 schools get $34.5 million annually.
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brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #181 on: September 14, 2021, 02:28:01 PM »
and that value is TV money. The AAC schools get nearly $3 million more annually from TV than the Big East schools. The Big 12 schools get $34.5 million annually.

Well, Cincinnati pays their head coach $3.4M annually so with just one employee they're losing money.

Not to mention the assistants, the other staff, the stadium and program upkeep, equipment costs, travel costs, I highly doubt any AAC school was in the black based on that $3M.

In addition, they have to field additional women's programs to offset the scholarship numbers. That's what, 80 more scholarships and student athlete costs that exist for the privilege of having football?

Football might generate a lot of revenue, but that doesn't mean it generates any profit.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #182 on: September 14, 2021, 05:04:57 PM »
Well, Cincinnati pays their head coach $3.4M annually so with just one employee they're losing money.

Not to mention the assistants, the other staff, the stadium and program upkeep, equipment costs, travel costs, I highly doubt any AAC school was in the black based on that $3M.

In addition, they have to field additional women's programs to offset the scholarship numbers. That's what, 80 more scholarships and student athlete costs that exist for the privilege of having football?

Football might generate a lot of revenue, but that doesn't mean it generates any profit.

and how much of that is coming from the university? Little. That is money that does not get raised without football.

over $7 million is less than $3.4. That must be the new math I've been hearing about.

And no, they do not have to equalize scholarships one a one for one basis.
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brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #183 on: September 14, 2021, 08:54:00 PM »
Big East schools don't pay for football. It's not new math, it's just math.

You make a TV argument in favor of the sport, then cite a program where one employee required for said program makes more than the difference in TV dollars, which completely undermines your argument.

DFW HOYA

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #184 on: September 14, 2021, 11:01:47 PM »
Big East schools don't pay for football. It's not new math, it's just math.

Football budgets for the four Big East schools ($M)

Butler: $1.2
Georgetown: $2.2
Villanova: $6.9
Connecticut: $16.6

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #185 on: September 15, 2021, 04:54:27 AM »
Big East schools don't pay for football. It's not new math, it's just math.

You make a TV argument in favor of the sport, then cite a program where one employee required for said program makes more than the difference in TV dollars, which completely undermines your argument.

His point is that the value of football to a school is more than about how profitable it is as a single entity.
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brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #186 on: September 15, 2021, 05:33:35 AM »
His point is that the value of football to a school is more than about how profitable it is as a single entity.

Which is undermined by his claim "and that value is TV money."

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #187 on: September 15, 2021, 11:40:10 AM »
Football budgets for the four Big East schools ($M)

Butler: $1.2
Georgetown: $2.2
Villanova: $6.9
Connecticut: $16.6
Villanova is getting an excellent return on that investment.
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GoldenWarrior11

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #188 on: September 20, 2021, 08:26:56 PM »
Colorado State, Air Force, UAB and an unnamed 4th team (Rice or UTSA) rumored to be the four additions to the AAC.

If true, talk about putting your basketball in the incinerator.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #189 on: September 20, 2021, 08:31:32 PM »
Colorado State, Air Force, UAB and an unnamed 4th team (Rice or UTSA) rumored to be the four additions to the AAC.

If true, talk about putting your basketball in the incinerator.

I don’t get CSU and AFA leaving the MWC but whatever.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #190 on: September 20, 2021, 08:37:46 PM »
I don’t get CSU and AFA leaving the MWC but whatever.

Neither do I.  More east coast exposure and earlier TV windows, maybe?  Air Force is sort of the left out child of the service academies when it comes to sports
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JWags85

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #191 on: September 21, 2021, 12:03:24 AM »
Neither do I.  More east coast exposure and earlier TV windows, maybe?  Air Force is sort of the left out child of the service academies when it comes to sports

Maybe because they don't have the annual game like Army and Navy do.  Otherwise, they are in a far better conference and have had as much relative success as Navy, and certainly more than Army, on the football field.  None of the service acadmies have been good at basketball in decades but AF at least had good coaches and some success 10-15 years.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #192 on: September 21, 2021, 05:18:03 AM »
Colorado State, Air Force, UAB and an unnamed 4th team (Rice or UTSA) rumored to be the four additions to the AAC.

If true, talk about putting your basketball in the incinerator.

Make the 4th team Army and maybe you got something with the 3 service academies

Retire0

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #193 on: September 21, 2021, 06:31:45 AM »
Air Force versus Space Force going to be a great rivalry going forward.
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Scoop Snoop

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #194 on: September 21, 2021, 09:16:03 AM »
Neither do I.  More east coast exposure and earlier TV windows, maybe? Air Force is sort of the left out child of the service academies when it comes to sports

Yep. They're an under the radar.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #195 on: September 21, 2021, 09:18:02 AM »
Yep. They're an under the radar.


A very stealthy program.
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #196 on: September 21, 2021, 09:45:56 AM »
I also don't get leaving the MWC for the AAC. The AAC has slightly more money now but you have to think that changes with Cincy, Houston, and UCF shipping out.

I agree with MUFIC, if you're going to have Navy and Air Force in football, might as well sign up Army and try to make yourself "America's conference" or something like that.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #197 on: September 21, 2021, 11:01:35 AM »
I also don't get leaving the MWC for the AAC. The AAC has slightly more money now but you have to think that changes with Cincy, Houston, and UCF shipping out.

I agree with MUFIC, if you're going to have Navy and Air Force in football, might as well sign up Army and try to make yourself "America's conference" or something like that.

The CSU move makes little sense at all. The motivating factor may be the feeling of rejection. They have wanted to get into the Big 12 since 2011 and fired their last AD because they were not mentioned in the realignment talk. Now they’re apparently willing to go from bus trips to Wyoming and Air Force and regional trips for all sports to cross country trips to East Carolina and South Florida, even after the AAC lost their best teams. Um, ok.
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Mr. Nielsen

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #198 on: September 21, 2021, 01:45:24 PM »
Army was in Conf. USA not to long ago. Didn't work out, so they went back to be an independent. I have the feeling they don't need or want to be in a league.
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GoldenWarrior11

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #199 on: September 21, 2021, 02:30:42 PM »
Air Force and Colorado State, IMO, are using these unofficial talks with the AAC as leverage against the MWC.  I think both desire some access into Texas (either in the form of UTEP, Texas State, UTSA or Rice), as well as attempting to break free of the special sweetheart deal that Boise State owns over the MWC.  The AAC is much more likely to get raided again down the road (i.e. Memphis, USF, SMU) and the AAC officially becomes C-USA once again.  The MWC may not be a power conference, but it is stable due to geography.  The PAC isn't taking anyone from the MWC.  It also has just as many strong men's basketball programs, if not better top-half, than the American does in the form of San Diego State, Nevada, Utah State, UNLV, New Mexico and even Boise State. 

Ultimately, I don't see AF and CSU jumping ship.  The money and geography just don't make sense, especially for all-sports for AF.