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Mr. Nielsen

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 09, 2021, 09:57:29 AM
When's the last time anyone raided the MAC for anything?

For their head coaches.
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
-Bill Walton

Galway Eagle

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 09, 2021, 01:52:46 PM

The Big 12?  Not a chance.  In 2019, they were at the very bottom of FBS in attendance - with just over 8,500 per game.  They just aren't terribly popular even among their own alumni base.

I doubt they would even get a AAC look.

Ok counter point, in 2012 when they went to the Orange Bowl they averaged 20,800 that's 2/3 capacity with a good team while bringing nobody of interest in.

I mean if they got a look in 2016 I have a hard time imaging there's "not a chance" as you put it
Maigh Eo for Sam

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

Quote from: Galway Eagle on September 09, 2021, 03:34:08 PM
Ok counter point, in 2012 when they went to the Orange Bowl they averaged 20,800 that's 2/3 capacity with a good team while bringing nobody of interest in.

I mean if they got a look in 2016 I have a hard time imaging there's "not a chance" as you put it


20,800 capacity that fills your stadium 2/3 full in its best year in program history?  That's not exactly a selling point to a conference like the Big 12.  Kansas, the worst program in the Big 12 and one of the worst in FBS history, averaged 33,000 in 2019.  Of the schools they are inviting, Houston had the lowest in 2019 at 25,000, but they are in Houston - not DeKalb.

And while they B12 did interview NIU back in 2016, it was one of *17* schools they talked to.

https://www.hustlebelt.com/2016/8/12/12455204/northern-illinois-huskies-big-12-expansion-football-basketball

Matthew 25:40: Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

Uncle Rico

Interesting note about how the leagues would stack up over the last few years if these changes had already occurred

https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/1436079329679589376?s=21
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

The Lens

Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 09, 2021, 04:39:42 PM
Interesting note about how the leagues would stack up over the last few years if these changes had already occurred

https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/1436079329679589376?s=21

So only BYU leaving the WCC affects anything.  Also shows you the gulf between the AAC (#6) and teams 7-10. 
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

Uncle Rico

Quote from: The Lens on September 09, 2021, 04:48:42 PM
So only BYU leaving the WCC affects anything.  Also shows you the gulf between the AAC (#6) and teams 7-10.

The WCC had a season ahead of the AAC.  2014 includes Louisville which finished atop KenPom and national champ UConn, so that was easily their best season. 

What we will see basketball-wise is, the top leagues will continue to separate from the middle
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

Herman Cain

At the end of the day TV will drive the discussion as it always does.

Right now the Big 12, with the two losses and 4 additions,  will still have a decent TV contract , although probably at the bottom of the Power 5. They still have several more years to go on all their Bowl contracts, and they will get divorce  settlement money from UT and Oklahoma. So financially in good shape.

AAC , will get a reduced TV contract  because of the losses. Whatever they bring in will not make up for that.  If they could get Army in the league for Football and bring in Buffalo, those would be two quality additions that would help offset. However, they will clearly be in the lower tier of conferences in FBS. For a while they were agitating, based on good football team performance, to be in the upper tier . That is off the table now.  They will get some divorce money from the three that left, and AAC might get lucky and still be a two bid basketball league post the departures, and will get some coin from that as well.

Not sure why any team would leave Mountain West, they have a contract for football that pays almost what AAC is right now, and will most likely be at parity after AAC departures. 

"It was a Great Day until it wasn't"
    ——Rory McIlroy on Final Round at Pinehurst

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: The Lens on September 09, 2021, 04:48:42 PM
So only BYU leaving the WCC affects anything.  Also shows you the gulf between the AAC (#6) and teams 7-10.

It also validates that the AAC is not and never has been a high major in basketball
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


JWags85

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 09, 2021, 03:45:21 PM

20,800 capacity that fills your stadium 2/3 full in its best year in program history?  That's not exactly a selling point to a conference like the Big 12.  Kansas, the worst program in the Big 12 and one of the worst in FBS history, averaged 33,000 in 2019.  Of the schools they are inviting, Houston had the lowest in 2019 at 25,000, but they are in Houston - not DeKalb.

And while they B12 did interview NIU back in 2016, it was one of *17* schools they talked to.

https://www.hustlebelt.com/2016/8/12/12455204/northern-illinois-huskies-big-12-expansion-football-basketball

Yea, they had a run of good coaches and recruiting kids that were too good for Whitewater but not quite B10 level. But it's a meh athletic program, their basketball team stinks, and Dekalb is too far out to truly tap into Chicago from a pure locational support perspective.

The MAC schools are just lacking in the resources to make them candidates, except for Buffalo.  Miami has a really rich FB and BB tradition that made them get rumored for stuff years ago.  But in the era of big budget athletics, they are a small fish booster cash and facility wise despite other prestige aspects.  Most of the other MAC schools in Ohio and Michigan are secondary to the BIG10 elephants in the room in their own states, so they won't get the support financially or fan wise to be appealing.

Except Buffalo, who has a different profile.  Buffalo is a huge school, has a great athletic department, and has invested in their programs.  Not long ago both FB and BB at UB were after thoughts at best, terrible at worst.  Now they are the class of the MAC in both.  They have similarities to Marshall which is why Marshall got poached

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

Matthew 25:40: Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

GoldenWarrior11

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 10, 2021, 10:18:52 AM
LOL.  OK AAC...

https://twitter.com/rodger/status/1436342985000722435?s=20

God Bless Mike Aresco.  For eight years and counting, he continues to awkwardly put lipstick on a pig.  The American was never a power conference; it never had the autonomous status that the P5 had; it never had the television revenue that power conferences had; it never had the fan support or viewership that power conferences had (unless of course they were playing a big-time P5 opponent).  In basketball, even with UConn, they consistently underperformed.  I remember arena shots of their AAC Tournament in Orlando, with a picture of small UConn fans bunched together with the "Americ6nRising" hashtag; the arena was empty.  There were maybe 1,500 people in the arena, if that.  Outside of Houston's F4 run last year, no AAC team (excluding UConn) has done anything in men's basketball in the last decade.  Cincinnati fell hard since leaving the Big East (hopefully, they improve going to the Big 12).  When you create a new basketball league where half of the members are Tulane, ECU, UCF, USF, and SMU, that is a very historically weak bottom.  Unless the top of the league is a blue blood, the league was always going to be a temporary stop-gap because basketball is not a power conference.  For many, many, reasons, the Big East was fortunate to have hired Val Ackermann in the divorce, and not be stuck with Mike Aresco. 

Once again, we (Marquette and the C7) avoided major disaster by separating from the football schools when we did.  The expansion of the BE/AAC with so many programs that could not care less about men's basketball would have surely destroyed many of our basketball brands, histories and traditions.  I cannot say that I have not had internal delight watching realignment unfold and not worry once again about the Big East being raided and ripped apart.  We are over and done with that. 

MU Fan in Connecticut

I've got to think that Memphis is the least happy with the future AAC.  They've seen the 3 best BB programs leave or soon on the way out. 

UWW2MU

Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on September 10, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
God Bless Mike Aresco.  For eight years and counting, he continues to awkwardly put lipstick on a pig.  The American was never a power conference; it never had the autonomous status that the P5 had; it never had the television revenue that power conferences had; it never had the fan support or viewership that power conferences had (unless of course they were playing a big-time P5 opponent).  In basketball, even with UConn, they consistently underperformed.  I remember arena shots of their AAC Tournament in Orlando, with a picture of small UConn fans bunched together with the "Americ6nRising" hashtag; the arena was empty.  There were maybe 1,500 people in the arena, if that.  Outside of Houston's F4 run last year, no AAC team (excluding UConn) has done anything in men's basketball in the last decade.  Cincinnati fell hard since leaving the Big East (hopefully, they improve going to the Big 12).  When you create a new basketball league where half of the members are Tulane, ECU, UCF, USF, and SMU, that is a very historically weak bottom.  Unless the top of the league is a blue blood, the league was always going to be a temporary stop-gap because basketball is not a power conference.  For many, many, reasons, the Big East was fortunate to have hired Val Ackermann in the divorce, and not be stuck with Mike Aresco. 

Once again, we (Marquette and the C7) avoided major disaster by separating from the football schools when we did.  The expansion of the BE/AAC with so many programs that could not care less about men's basketball would have surely destroyed many of our basketball brands, histories and traditions.  I cannot say that I have not had internal delight watching realignment unfold and not worry once again about the Big East being raided and ripped apart.  We are over and done with that.

This is all true... but I take no delight in their plight (except for those AAC fans who continually bash the BE out of their own insecurities).  After all, they too were victims of the BE poaching that took place in 2013.  Let's remember who the true villains are: ESPN, the teams that walked, and the ACC.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

No one is really a villain.  Everyone just looking out for their own interests.
Matthew 25:40: Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

The Lens

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 10, 2021, 02:06:07 PM
No one is really a villain.  Everyone just looking out for their own interests.

The quote unquote villains are getting paid but they're not really getting better.  Since the modern age of expansion (2003) has anyone improved their football team?

2003-2005
Miami?  NO
BC? NO
Va Tech? NO

2010-2014
Pitt? NO
Cuse? NO

Their actions caused others to move:

Maryland? NO
Rutgers? NO
Louisville? On the field getting to the ACC hasn't helped football BUT they along with Utah and TCU are overall winners

I would argue Mizzou and A&M have treaded water.

So IMO no school has bettered itself on the field by moving, with the exception of TCU.  But schools like Louisville, TCU & Utah almost don't count because they went from conferences that could be called mid majors to Power 5.  It's the shifters...the 5 Big East Schools and the 4 Big 12 schools who have jumped to the new Power 4...who all seem stuck in neutral, albeit with much bigger paychecks.     
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

Galway Eagle

Quote from: JWags85 on September 09, 2021, 09:07:39 PM
Yea, they had a run of good coaches and recruiting kids that were too good for Whitewater but not quite B10 level. But it's a meh athletic program, their basketball team stinks, and Dekalb is too far out to truly tap into Chicago from a pure locational support perspective.

Just for arguments sake I'm going to argue this. Though I want it said I don't actually believe NIU will get raided, if it didn't happen when they were on a solid run with hype then it won't happen.

While you're right that NIU is too far to get the Chicago market I would say it not too far to have upgraded their stadium to a bigger spot in Naperville/Aurora, that trims a good 30min off any alumn's commute from the Chicagoland area and is still close enough that you could easily bus in students. I'd say that if I were truly trying to sell it as a possibility that I'd push hard for that location at least for marquee games of which there'd be a decent amount in the B12 
Maigh Eo for Sam

Its DJOver

Quote from: nyg on May 13, 2024, 02:07:11 PM
I'll stick with my opinion on Gold.  He'll be in foul trouble within the first eight minutes.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: The Lens on September 10, 2021, 02:19:20 PM
I would argue Mizzou and A&M have treaded water.

A&M has treaded water in the sense that they still aren't making the CFP, but they've become a regular top 15 team. Possibly just as importantly to Aggies, they passed up TU for a full decade.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Billy Hoyle

"You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked."

JWags85

Quote from: Galway Eagle on September 10, 2021, 02:38:19 PM
Just for arguments sake I'm going to argue this. Though I want it said I don't actually believe NIU will get raided, if it didn't happen when they were on a solid run with hype then it won't happen.

While you're right that NIU is too far to get the Chicago market I would say it not too far to have upgraded their stadium to a bigger spot in Naperville/Aurora, that trims a good 30min off any alumn's commute from the Chicagoland area and is still close enough that you could easily bus in students. I'd say that if I were truly trying to sell it as a possibility that I'd push hard for that location at least for marquee games of which there'd be a decent amount in the B12

Fair, but see, even at their peak, there was no demand for it.  Their absolute best season in school history when they made the Orange Bowl, they couldn't sell out 24,000 seats even once.  They only broke 20K in attendance twice that year at home.  And other years they were abysmal in attendance.  I was at Miami of Ohio during the end of Big Ben's run and the years after and it was standing room only for some games.  I think there were 2 MACtion games that had 27-28,000 fans in a similarly sized 24,000 seat stadium.

Its just an odd cart before the horse argument like "well we couldn't sell out at the peak of our reputation, but if we built a bigger stadium 20-30 min away from campus, we could attract more fans..."  Its just not a well enough supported athletic program.  Hell, NW struggles with football attendance at times and thats a much better program, with a much easier travel to the stadium, and bigger name opponents.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

Quote from: JWags85 on September 10, 2021, 03:59:51 PM
Fair, but see, even at their peak, there was no demand for it.  Their absolute best season in school history when they made the Orange Bowl, they couldn't sell out 24,000 seats even once.  They only broke 20K in attendance twice that year at home.  And other years they were abysmal in attendance.  I was at Miami of Ohio during the end of Big Ben's run and the years after and it was standing room only for some games.  I think there were 2 MACtion games that had 27-28,000 fans in a similarly sized 24,000 seat stadium.

Its just an odd cart before the horse argument like "well we couldn't sell out at the peak of our reputation, but if we built a bigger stadium 20-30 min away from campus, we could attract more fans..."  Its just not a well enough supported athletic program.  Hell, NW struggles with football attendance at times and thats a much better program, with a much easier travel to the stadium, and bigger name opponents.


Not only that, but significant numbers of students aren't going to bus 30 minutes to a game.  Schools are having a hard enough time having them walk across campus for one.
Matthew 25:40: Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

kclem

I wonder if Gonzaga might be looking for a new conference with the departure of BYU from the WCC? Just dreaming, but the addition of Kansas and Gonzaga could add a lot to the Big East.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: kclem on September 11, 2021, 09:52:52 AM
I wonder if Gonzaga might be looking for a new conference with the departure of BYU from the WCC? Just dreaming, but the addition of Kansas and Gonzaga could add a lot to the Big East.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Gonzaga in the Mountain West but don't see the big east happening. Most likely they stay put
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

Matthew 25:40: Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

MU82

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 11, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
And Kansas isn't dropping football.

You almost surely are right about this because money is money (and it's hard to blame them for that).

Plus, it never gets tiring to be humiliated on national TV by Coastal Carolina!
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

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