More conference realignment talk

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Colorado State would make some sense.  30,000 students on a beautiful campus in Fort Collins.  A brand new, on-campus stadium.

The problem is the football has been absolutely brutal.  If they would have accomplished on the filed what Boise has, they would have been in the Big 12 a decade ago.

The other school that picked a real bad time to get bad is South Florida.  I still think they would be a better long-term choice for the Big 12 than Cincinnati.

[brewcity77]

UCF has an alumni base of over 320k, and over 72k current students. It is the largest school in Florida, and the largest public university in the US.

They are growing very rapidly, and due to their alumni base will attract a lot of eyeballs for TV contracts.

All this. UCF is starting to show promise, but in 15-20 years as those alums become donors they could become a powerhouse. And fourth in a state that has three programs that each claim 3+ football national championships isn't something to be ashamed of, especially when they've only been FBS for 25 years.

[Uncle Rico]

UCF has an alumni base of over 320k, and over 72k current students. It is the largest school in Florida, and the largest public university in the US.

They are growing very rapidly, and due to their alumni base will attract a lot of eyeballs for TV contracts.

UCF is a far better option than Boise or Colorado State.  Of all the options, it’s a no-brainer

[WhiteTrash]

UCF is a far better option than Boise or Colorado State.  Of all the options, it’s a no-brainer

I agree. I wonder if the Air Force Academy was considered.

[JWags85]

All this. UCF is starting to show promise, but in 15-20 years as those alums become donors they could become a powerhouse. And fourth in a state that has three programs that each claim 3+ football national championships isn't something to be ashamed of, especially when they've only been FBS for 25 years.

At various times, USF, and even FAU, has shown that you can be pretty good and win consistently farming Florida for guys that FSU, UF, and Miami didn't want.  UCF has a far greater base to work off of and more success than either of those two.  Plus they have a big recruiting footprint (their last 2 QBs have been from Hawai'i).  They have all the makings of the next big non-traditional power, moreso than the success they've had.

[Pakuni]

@Enquirer: BREAKING: University of Cincinnati has officially submitted its application to join the Big 12 Conference, according to two university sources. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/columnists/2021/09/08/sources-cincinnati-bearcats-submit-application-big-12-conference/5770273001/

[Uncle Rico]

@Enquirer: BREAKING: University of Cincinnati has officially submitted its application to join the Big 12 Conference, according to two university sources. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/columnists/2021/09/08/sources-cincinnati-bearcats-submit-application-big-12-conference/5770273001/

It’s Cincinnati, UCF, BYU and Houston.  All will have applied by end of this week.  Procedural at this point

[asdfasdf]

Does anyone know if the Big East ever considered adding Wichita St.? I don't remember much discussion about it, but with the way things are shaking out in the AAC I can see a world where Wichita St. is aggressively looking to get out of the conference - regardless of what their AD says. As a basketball only school in a conference that has football their future isn't entirely on solid ground.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Does anyone know if the Big East ever considered adding Wichita St.? I don't remember much discussion about it, but with the way things are shaking out in the AAC I can see a world where Wichita St. is aggressively looking to get out of the conference - regardless of what their AD says. As a basketball only school in a conference that has football their future isn't entirely on solid ground.

I don't think the Big East is interested in Wichita State at this point.

[Uncle Rico]

Does anyone know if the Big East ever considered adding Wichita St.? I don't remember much discussion about it, but with the way things are shaking out in the AAC I can see a world where Wichita St. is aggressively looking to get out of the conference - regardless of what their AD says. As a basketball only school in a conference that has football their future isn't entirely on solid ground.

Koch money will always make them a player in realignment but it won’t be the Big East

[DFW HOYA]

Does anyone know if the Big East ever considered adding Wichita St.? I don't remember much discussion about it, but with the way things are shaking out in the AAC I can see a world where Wichita St. is aggressively looking to get out of the conference - regardless of what their AD says. As a basketball only school in a conference that has football their future isn't entirely on solid ground.

Not an institutional fit. They don't sponsor soccer or lacrosse. No direct flights to/from Wichita east of Chicago.

[MU82]

So, essentially, the Big 12 traded Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas A&M and Nebraska for West Virginia, Cinci, Houston, BYU and UCF.

Yikes!

Obviously, the "trade" wasn't the Big 12's idea. But still ...

Yikes!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So, essentially, the Big 12 traded Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas A&M and Nebraska for West Virginia, Cinci, Houston, BYU and UCF.

Yikes!

Even worse, Texas and its insistence on creating the Longhorn Network and the unequal media shares is what started the conference's problems in the first place.  Only to have them bail when it didn't work out.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The Big 12 messed up big time in 2011 by only taking West Virginia (to replace Missouri).  They could have added WVU, Louisville (who had not yet been invited to the ACC) and Cincinnati to move to 12 teams (and continue sponsoring a Big 12 CCG, which it was unable to do for seven seasons until the rules requiring two divisions got changed).  Had they simply added Louisville and Cincinnati, they would have created an Eastern-hub that could have opened up further opportunities for expansion (like a UCF, Houston, USF, Memphis, etc.).  Instead, much like the Big East (2005-2012), it was purely reactionary. 

At least the dog and pony show by the Big 12 in 2016 gave them the data and information to move quickly here in 2021, once Texas and Oklahoma bolted.  Without that, they likely have this expansion process go into the winter, if not longer. 

[MU82]

Good points, GW11 and FBM.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yeah sitting back and fiddling while the other conferences took some of their best properties wasn't a very good idea.  But I wonder if the B12 was ever truly going to be successful in the long-run even when you go back to the Big 8 merger with the four Texas schools.

[Herman Cain]

So, essentially, the Big 12 traded Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas A&M and Nebraska for West Virginia, Cinci, Houston, BYU and UCF.

Yikes!

Obviously, the "trade" wasn't the Big 12's idea. But still ...

Yikes!

Also Colorado for TCU

[MU82]

Also Colorado for TCU

Yes. Thanks.

[JWags85]

So, essentially, the Big 12 traded Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas A&M and Nebraska for West Virginia, Cinci, Houston, BYU and UCF.

Yikes!

Obviously, the "trade" wasn't the Big 12's idea. But still ...

Yikes!

Listen, you’ll never replace the cache and prestige of UT and OU, but otherwise, it’s not bad at all.  A&M’s rich coffers are one thing, but the program has won 1 conference title in the last 30 years.  Nebraska sucks and Tom Osborne isn’t walking through that door.  And Mizzou is…fine.  WVU is a better program as of late than all 3. UCF is on the cusp of being a monster.  And BYU/Houston are always gonna put up solid teams.  TCU is an upgrade over CU too.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Good thing Marquette and the other basketball schools left the old Big East (AAC). Not sure who you add. UAB. Marshall, App. St.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Yeah sitting back and fiddling while the other conferences took some of their best properties wasn't a very good idea.  But I wonder if the B12 was ever truly going to be successful in the long-run even when you go back to the Big 8 merger with the four Texas schools.

There are a few programs that are just bigger than the conferences they are a part of.  Indirectly, or directly, they lead to the breakup of conferences because their values will always supersede the collective’s.  Notre Dame is one (Big East and ACC).  Texas is definitely another (SWC and Big 12).  When the SWC collapsed, thanks in large part to UT, they did so to free themselves of the “unvaluables” like Rice, SMU, TCU and Houston.  Long-term, Texas led an alliance with the Big 8 in order to be tied with Oklahoma because that provided the most value.  There was zero value attaching with Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State or even Baylor (which was a political addition).  Before the Big 12 officially formed, Texas was in talks with the PAC, SEC and Big Ten; none made sense at the time - but it was only a matter of time before Texas found more value elsewhere.  The LHN definitely kept them in the Big 12 longer than many anticipated.

The Big 12, much like the old Big East, was established as a temporary solution to a long-term conflict.

[Herman Cain]

There are a few programs that are just bigger than the conferences they are a part of.  Indirectly, or directly, they lead to the breakup of conferences because their values will always supersede the collective’s.  Notre Dame is one (Big East and ACC).  Texas is definitely another (SWC and Big 12).  When the SWC collapsed, thanks in large part to UT, they did so to free themselves of the “unvaluables” like Rice, SMU, TCU and Houston.  Long-term, Texas led an alliance with the Big 8 in order to be tied with Oklahoma because that provided the most value.  There was zero value attaching with Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State or even Baylor (which was a political addition).  Before the Big 12 officially formed, Texas was in talks with the PAC, SEC and Big Ten; none made sense at the time - but it was only a matter of time before Texas found more value elsewhere.  The LHN definitely kept them in the Big 12 longer than many anticipated.

The Big 12, much like the old Big East, was established as a temporary solution to a long-term conflict.

All good points .

Also the Big-8 itself was somewhat of an optical illusion. It had two strong teams in Oklahoma and Nebraska and the rest was very weak . So the two of schools ran up big wins over the rest of the conference and then they scheduled very weak Big Ten teams and ran the score up into the 50-60 point range each game . For a long time The Big Ten only allowed one tram to go to a Bowl so Big -8 would get two New Years bowls .

I believe this latest incarnation of the Big 12 will be the most stable in its history . A lot of large schools similarly situated with no outright top dog.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Good thing Marquette and the other basketball schools left the old Big East (AAC). Not sure who you add. UAB. Marshall, App. St.

I would add four: UAB, Marshall, Old Dominion and Rice.  Rice needs to be added to keep Navy on-board, as they need at least one game in Texas annually.  The other three have had varying levels of success in football and basketball, and fit within the footprint of the American. 

[forgetful]

I would add four: UAB, Marshall, Old Dominion and Rice.  Rice needs to be added to keep Navy on-board, as they need at least one game in Texas annually.  The other three have had varying levels of success in football and basketball, and fit within the footprint of the American.

The big question is, does ESPN continue to pay the current deal for those teams.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The big question is, does ESPN continue to pay the current deal for those teams.

No.  The AAC TV deal that was extended in 2019 had built in language that protected ESPN in event the top brands ever got called up to another league. 

The AAC TV deal will likely get cut in half.  The top brands of the conference were Cincinnati, Houston, UCF and Memphis.  They just lost three of the top markets and football programs.  Just like the C7 saw in 2012, replacing the top brands with call-ups does not replace the value.  UCF, Houston, Memphis and SMU were not Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia and Louisville.