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Author Topic: More conference realignment talk  (Read 25328 times)

forgetful

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #150 on: September 11, 2021, 11:11:54 AM »
You almost surely are right about this because money is money (and it's hard to blame them for that).

Plus, it never gets tiring to be humiliated on national TV by Coastal Carolina!

I agree that they won't be dropping football. But the argument that it is about the money, is not entirely correct. They lost money again last year, and will lose money every year after the current Big12 deal expires.

The reason they won't drop football is alumni donors. They aren't donating to football, but they trick universities into believing that they won't donate if they get rid of football.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #151 on: September 11, 2021, 11:16:42 AM »
I agree that they won't be dropping football. But the argument that it is about the money, is not entirely correct. They lost money again last year, and will lose money every year after the current Big12 deal expires.

The reason they won't drop football is alumni donors. They aren't donating to football, but they trick universities into believing that they won't donate if they get rid of football.


Most college football programs lose money - at all levels.  Yet schools still keep them.  They clearly have value of some sort.
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Newsdreams

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #152 on: September 11, 2021, 11:25:22 AM »

Most college football programs lose money - at all levels.  Yet schools still keep them.  They clearly have value of some sort.
The exposure even if it costs them there is a lot of value for big schools with games being promoted keeps the school name relevant on a national level.

MU82

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #153 on: September 11, 2021, 11:27:46 AM »
forgetful and FBM ... good point about the $$

I guess it's about the prestige. It's not every day you can give up 49 points to a Sun Belt school! (Yes, I know Coastal is a good Sun Belt team, but still!)
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forgetful

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #154 on: September 11, 2021, 11:40:25 AM »

Most college football programs lose money - at all levels.  Yet schools still keep them.  They clearly have value of some sort.

Big donor pressure has a huge role. Same reason you see fraternities repeatedly and grossly violate all rules and never get kicked off campus.

The moment there is any suggestion of cutting them, or punishing them, key donors claim they will stop all donations. Universities don't have the guts to call their bluff.

There is also the value of exposure as News indicates, but its value is far far less than they promote. Donor threats are the main player.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #155 on: September 11, 2021, 11:51:04 AM »
Big donor pressure has a huge role. Same reason you see fraternities repeatedly and grossly violate all rules and never get kicked off campus.

The moment there is any suggestion of cutting them, or punishing them, key donors claim they will stop all donations. Universities don't have the guts to call their bluff.

There is also the value of exposure as News indicates, but its value is far far less than they promote. Donor threats are the main player.

Sure there might be some that fit that description. Most colleges and universities don’t want to cut football though. That’s my point.
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #156 on: September 11, 2021, 01:18:27 PM »
And Kansas isn’t dropping football.

Definitely not soon. Probably not ever. But depending on how the chips fall in the future, I could see a UConn situation
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SaveOD238

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #157 on: September 11, 2021, 01:49:38 PM »
Definitely not soon. Probably not ever. But depending on how the chips fall in the future, I could see a UConn situation

You're delusional.  Those Pomeroy ratings showed that even the reconstituted Big 12 is a better basketball conference than the Big East.

It's never gonna happen

brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #158 on: September 11, 2021, 02:27:12 PM »
You're delusional.  Those Pomeroy ratings showed that even the reconstituted Big 12 is a better basketball conference than the Big East.

It's never gonna happen

But that's not really the point, is it? The AE article indicated that the football is such a financial drag that a reconstituted Big 12 with a lower TV contract (which still seems likely) could very well be less lucrative than joining the Big East without football. I don't expect to ever see Kansas in the Big East, but it's not unthinkable that some of these programs that are absolutely god awful at football (and honestly, Kansas and UConn are worse than that) and just flushing donor dollars down the toilet decade after decade might eventually wise up, especially when the basketball is their real money maker.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #159 on: September 11, 2021, 02:48:54 PM »
You're delusional.  Those Pomeroy ratings showed that even the reconstituted Big 12 is a better basketball conference than the Big East.

It's never gonna happen

Yes, as it stands now, the B12 is a better basketball conference than the Big East. If/when realignment happens again and West Virginia, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech, Cincinnati, Baylor, and Houston are all poached and replaced with some sad combination of AAC and MWC teams, that will no longer be true.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #160 on: September 11, 2021, 02:50:59 PM »
But that's not really the point, is it? The AE article indicated that the football is such a financial drag that a reconstituted Big 12 with a lower TV contract (which still seems likely) could very well be less lucrative than joining the Big East without football. I don't expect to ever see Kansas in the Big East, but it's not unthinkable that some of these programs that are absolutely god awful at football (and honestly, Kansas and UConn are worse than that) and just flushing donor dollars down the toilet decade after decade might eventually wise up, especially when the basketball is their real money maker.

So all these colleges have football teams because they don’t know what they’re doing?
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brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #161 on: September 11, 2021, 04:09:06 PM »
So all these colleges have football teams because they don’t know what they’re doing?

I think that's accurate. They live in the old mindset of continuing to try to make it work because they always have and everyone else is. No P5 schools contract football because they are all chasing unattainable profitability while staring at each other and no one wants to be the one to blink. But how many actually make money?

Don't underestimate the simple reality of peer pressure mixed with resistance to change. At some point, someone will break the cycle of futility. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean someone won't figure it out eventually.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #162 on: September 11, 2021, 04:25:05 PM »
I think that's accurate. They live in the old mindset of continuing to try to make it work because they always have and everyone else is. No P5 schools contract football because they are all chasing unattainable profitability while staring at each other and no one wants to be the one to blink. But how many actually make money?

Don't underestimate the simple reality of peer pressure mixed with resistance to change. At some point, someone will break the cycle of futility. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean someone won't figure it out eventually.

Schools find value in football regardless if it’s “profitable” or not. It’s a marketing tool.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Herman Cain

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #163 on: September 11, 2021, 04:28:00 PM »
Conference realignment is ,for the most part , a function of:
1. Media Economics
2. Instability in a Conference due certain schools have a large disparity in media value relative to the remainder of the conference

Looking at the Big 12, post realignment, there are no teams with media economics that would be attractive to other P5 Conferences. Which we saw demonstrated by no one stepping in after UT and OU left to pick up an attractive remaining piece.  Also the league is very stable so no one realistically really agitating to leave .  So for the time being I think the Big 12  stays intact. Especially since they are so strong in Basketball .

In theory  some conference could come along in the fiuture looking to expand territory . The Big 10 made their blunder doing that with Rutgers and Maryland so Anything is possible but not likely

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TAMU Eagle

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #164 on: September 11, 2021, 04:30:21 PM »
I wouldn't go as far as Brew does and I agree with some of what Fluffy says, but I do think it would be very difficult to be the first FBS team to drop football in the modern era. We saw what happened at UAB a few years ago. Someday, a school will do it and will actually stick to their guns, and I think shortly after that we may see more schools follow suit. Not in the P4 of course. Too much money.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #165 on: September 11, 2021, 04:38:13 PM »
I wouldn't go as far as Brew does and I agree with some of what Fluffy says, but I do think it would be very difficult to be the first FBS team to drop football in the modern era. We saw what happened at UAB a few years ago. Someday, a school will do it and will actually stick to their guns, and I think shortly after that we may see more schools follow suit. Not in the P4 of course. Too much money.

I think you will also see schools drop to FCS like Idaho did a couple years ago. For instance I don’t get why NMSU sticks it out in the WAC but keep its football program independent. Or UConn. Or UMass. 
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Litehouse

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #166 on: September 11, 2021, 05:26:38 PM »
I noticed the AAC home football games today had “P6” on the down markers.  That just seems desperate.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #167 on: September 11, 2021, 05:53:01 PM »
I noticed the AAC home football games today had “P6” on the down markers.  That just seems desperate.

They have been doing that for years.  A sad and desperate marketing ploy that ultimately failed.

JWags85

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #168 on: September 11, 2021, 06:50:02 PM »
And Kansas isn’t dropping football.

We can make fun of Kansas football and how bleak it’s been, but let’s not forget they’ve been ranked in the top 3 more times in the last 20 years than Wisconsin and just as many big Jan 1 Bowl victories in that time as well  8-)

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #169 on: September 12, 2021, 07:27:27 AM »
We can make fun of Kansas football and how bleak it’s been, but let’s not forget they’ve been ranked in the top 3 more times in the last 20 years than Wisconsin and just as many big Jan 1 Bowl victories in that time as well  8-)


If you are talking the traditional "New Years Six" bowl games, Wisconsin has won two in the last 20 years.  The Jan 1 2017 Cotton Bowl and the Dec 30 2017 Orange Bowl.
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JWags85

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #170 on: September 12, 2021, 12:12:07 PM »

If you are talking the traditional "New Years Six" bowl games, Wisconsin has won two in the last 20 years.  The Jan 1 2017 Cotton Bowl and the Dec 30 2017 Orange Bowl.

Oh dammit, I forgot about the Cotton Bowl against WMU

warriorstrack

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #171 on: September 12, 2021, 05:44:32 PM »

Most college football programs lose money - at all levels.  Yet schools still keep them.  They clearly have value of some sort.

Need to start selling beers at the games, pretty high profit margin..

DFW HOYA

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #172 on: September 12, 2021, 07:18:27 PM »
Most college football programs lose money - at all levels.  Yet schools still keep them.  They clearly have value of some sort.

There are over 700 NCAA schools with football. Outside of the top 50-60 or so, there are probably a combination of six reasons why they do so:

1. Visibility for the university
2. Admissions driver
3. Diversity driver
4. Historical ties
5. Their peer institutions play as well
6. Alumni/donor support

At a smaller school, visibility and admissions are big factors. At admissions-competitive schools, diversity is a factor as well. Alumni support is probably overrated and exposure with peer institutions is underrated. In those years when Army was a really bad football team, people used to ask why they didn't drop to FCS. The answer was simple: because AFA and Navy were still there. No general at the Pentagon wants to hear it from an admiral in the hallway that Army can't compete with the other branches.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 07:24:15 PM by DFW HOYA »

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #173 on: September 12, 2021, 07:26:27 PM »
There are over 700 NCAA schools with football. Outside of the top 50-60 or so, there are probably a combination of six reasons why they do so:

1. Visibility for the university
2. Admissions driver
3. Diversity driver
4. Historical ties
5. Their peer institutions play as well
6. Alumni/donor support

At a smaller school, visibility and admissions are big factors. At admissions-competitive schools, diversity is a factor as well. Alumni support is probably overrated and exposure with peer institutions is underrated. In those years when Army was a really bad football team, people used to ask why they didn't drop to FCS. The answer was simple: because AFA and Navy were still there. No general at the Pentagon wants to hear it from an admiral in the hallway that Army can't compete with the other branches.

Yep yep!
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The Lens

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #174 on: September 13, 2021, 04:34:47 PM »
I wouldn't sleep on Kansas football now that Lance Leipold is there. 
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