K-12 Schools & COVID

[JWags85]

As you pointed out that's in a year, not 9 months. Also it is your choice if you want to work more than you are paid for. For teachers, the expectation is that they work for more than they are paid for. You also make significantly more than a teacher does.

I won't argue with the majority of your fair points, but thats an incredibly naive view of the private sector.  Thinking that working more than 40 hours a week is solely of your own volition is not remotely true.

I'm not arguing that teachers aren't underpaid, but positioning them as the only ones who work more than they are "paid for" is off base.  That can be said about many salaried workers.  And thats not necessarily some evil capitalistic conspiracy, but rather sometimes the nature of work and business.

Though you can argue doing so in business or other industries is a means to an end and leads to potential expansion of role and compensation not usually found in teaching, but thats a different argument.

[Jay Bee]

I did some math, but it didn't add up.

37 weeks (non-summer, I presume – but maybe this is what I'm not tracking correctly) x 55 weeks = 2,035 hours were cited.

Again, I don't think 2,035 hours is a ridiculous amount of hours to work in a year.. but, I struggle with the calculation provided.

Does this 37 weeks include winter break? Spring break? Thanksgiving and other holidays?  Not sure I'd calculate out to the 2,035 hours if there are a bunch of days off. Back off just 3 weeks and you're at 1,870 at 55 hours / week.

Of course, outside of education, there are many jobs in which you are fully expected to work significantly more 'than you are paid for'. Many would consider some of these hours to be 'extreme', but it's part of certain jobs... anything under 2,500/year would be seen as a significant negative, and working on weekends simply part of the norm / expectation. Long hours are certainly not something unique to teaching (if that's even true for the average teacher).

I guess more than anything the idea of saying, "the average teacher only makes $xx,xxx a year" is short-sighted and not a good comp. Lots of variables and angles to consider.

"the average teacher makes $xx,xxx a year" = "person A averaged 21 points per game, but person B averaged 16"

Nonetheless, would be interested in thoughts on why public school teachers make more, on average, than their private school teacher counterparts.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

........x 55 weeks.......

Making 'em work 3 extra weeks in the same time frame.  Got to get every drop out them.

[Jay Bee]

........x 55 weeks.......

Making 'em work 3 extra weeks in the same time frame.  Got to get every drop out them.

Hours, sorry

I've been working so many hours (but only bc I want to & not as much as teachers), I messed up.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I won't argue with the majority of your fair points, but thats an incredibly naive view of the private sector.  Thinking that working more than 40 hours a week is solely of your own volition is not remotely true.

I'm not arguing that teachers aren't underpaid, but positioning them as the only ones who work more than they are "paid for" is off base.  That can be said about many salaried workers.  And thats not necessarily some evil capitalistic conspiracy, but rather sometimes the nature of work and business.

Though you can argue doing so in business or other industries is a means to an end and leads to potential expansion of role and compensation not usually found in teaching, but thats a different argument.

I'm sure there are others similar to teaching. But with teaching, they are literally required to work outside of normal work hours every day or be fired. That is a universal industry standard. I'm sure there are some companies that have similar expectations but those are just individual companies exploiting their employees, not a universal practice. I'd also bring up Jay Bee's point and question if they actually need to work long hours or if they are having time management issues and a more efficient employee could get the same work done in 40 hours.

I regularly work more than 40 hours a week. I used to regularly put in 60-80 hours a week but realized that was unhealthy and cut back. I only get paid for 40. It is my decision to work beyond that 40 hours a week because I want to be exceptional. That's not the same thing as being told that I have 40+ hours of work scheduled AND I have to take 5-20 hours a week home with me.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Hours, sorry

I've been working so many hours (but only bc I want to & not as much as teachers), I messed up.

No one has said that you or anyone else doesn't work as much as teachers. You are the one who keeps implying that teachers work less than everyone else.

If you only worked 40 hours a week would you be fired?

[Jay Bee]

No one has said that you or anyone else doesn't work as much as teachers. You are the one who keeps implying that teachers work less than everyone else.

If you only worked 40 hours a week would you be fired?

I thought you implying that teachers are incredibly unique in needing to work a lot during their part-year gig.

There are absolutely jobs in which working only 40 hours a week would not be acceptable.

Jobs where you must report detailed hours & billable hours are tracked and analyzed regularly and in great detail.

My point is teachers - who may work a lot during certain parts of the year - are not alone in doing so.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I'm sure there are others similar to teaching. But with teaching, they are literally required to work outside of normal work hours every day or be fired. That is a universal industry standard. I'm sure there are some companies that have similar expectations but those are just individual companies exploiting their employees, not a universal practice. I'd also bring up Jay Bee's point and question if they actually need to work long hours or if they are having time management issues and a more efficient employee could get the same work done in 40 hours.

Almost every job in the business world -- particularly management - requires more than 40 hours per week to meet expectations.   You get compensated for that...it's not exploitation, but it is the way it is. 

Do teachers get compensated for it?  Fair debate.  But your premise isn't going to resonate with a lot of people that likely post on the board.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I thought you implying that teachers are incredibly unique in needing to work a lot during their part-year gig.

There are absolutely jobs in which working only 40 hours a week would not be acceptable.

Jobs where you must report detailed hours & billable hours are tracked and analyzed regularly and in great detail.

I'll take that as a no

My point is teachers - who may work a lot during certain parts of the year - are not alone in doing so.

No one ever said they were. No one is questioning how much other occupations work.

Almost every job in the business world -- particularly management - requires more than 40 hours per week to meet expectations.  You get compensated for that...it's not exploitation, but it is the way it is. 

Do teachers get compensated for it?  Fair debate.  But your premise isn't going to resonate with a lot of people that likely post on the board.

If that's true, then it's not exploitation. But that's not actually the case in many jobs. I also don't believe that most jobs require than more 40 hours of work. I think that's a lie that many have been conditioned to believe.

You say that's the way it is. I don't think that will be true for much longer.

[Jay Bee]

I'll take that as a no

Don't take it as a no. I would not have my job if I only worked 40 hours a week.

Things have changed a bit over the years, but certainly the idea of working 40 hours a week in (now) Big Four public accounting would still get you laughed out of the firm, real quick.

A 40 hour work week isn't realistic for many people. Neither is taking nights & weekends  off. And it's certainly not a significant differentiator for teachers.

[Uncle Rico]

Don't take it as a no. I would not have my job if I only worked 40 hours a week.

Things have changed a bit over the years, but certainly the idea of working 40 hours a week in (now) Big Four public accounting would still get you laughed out of the firm, real quick.

A 40 hour work week isn't realistic for many people. Neither is taking nights & weekends  off. And it's certainly not a significant differentiator for teachers.

See, that's the problem.  Work expectations rise for the worker bee but the salary rise isn't matching the extra work across the board in all fields.

Of course, most workers don't have to deal with their jobs being politicized

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Don't take it as a no. I would not have my job if I only worked 40 hours a week.

So you would be fired?

Or you wouldn't have earned this promotion if you didn't work over 40 hours a week?

[Skatastrophy]

Working class people should be building each other up and cheering each other on to get more money. Not comparing their peanut pile and poor work-life balance.

I hope you all get underworked and overpaid sooner rather than later.

[The Sultan]

So you would be fired?

Or you wouldn't have earned this promotion if you didn't work over 40 hours a week?

If you work for a Big Four firm and expect to work 40 hours a week, you won't last very long.

[The Sultan]

Don't take it as a no. I would not have my job if I only worked 40 hours a week.

Things have changed a bit over the years, but certainly the idea of working 40 hours a week in (now) Big Four public accounting would still get you laughed out of the firm, real quick.

A 40 hour work week isn't realistic for many people. Neither is taking nights & weekends  off. And it's certainly not a significant differentiator for teachers.

I agree with you.  But if there are teacher shortages, which have been coming for awhile, that should tell you something about the compensation provided for what is asked of them.

[jesmu84]

I agree with you.  But if there are teacher shortages, which have been coming for awhile, that should tell you something about the compensation provided for what is asked of them.

There's a teacher shortage because nobody wants to work anymore

[forgetful]

I did some math, but it didn't add up.

37 weeks (non-summer, I presume – but maybe this is what I'm not tracking correctly) x 55 weeks = 2,035 hours were cited.

Again, I don't think 2,035 hours is a ridiculous amount of hours to work in a year.. but, I struggle with the calculation provided.

Does this 37 weeks include winter break? Spring break? Thanksgiving and other holidays?  Not sure I'd calculate out to the 2,035 hours if there are a bunch of days off. Back off just 3 weeks and you're at 1,870 at 55 hours / week.

Of course, outside of education, there are many jobs in which you are fully expected to work significantly more 'than you are paid for'. Many would consider some of these hours to be 'extreme', but it's part of certain jobs... anything under 2,500/year would be seen as a significant negative, and working on weekends simply part of the norm / expectation. Long hours are certainly not something unique to teaching (if that's even true for the average teacher).

I guess more than anything the idea of saying, "the average teacher only makes $xx,xxx a year" is short-sighted and not a good comp. Lots of variables and angles to consider.

"the average teacher makes $xx,xxx a year" = "person A averaged 21 points per game, but person B averaged 16"

Nonetheless, would be interested in thoughts on why public school teachers make more, on average, than their private school teacher counterparts.

Most state's schools require 180 days of in class teaching, which amounts to 36 weeks of instructional time. Most schools require teachers to be present/working for an additional 1-4 weeks depending on state/school district.

55 hours a day is pretty common, unless you completely mail it in and don't put in any effort.

So a minimum of 37 weeks for 2035 hours as others have said, and if you are in a district that requires more weeks of training prep, up to 2200 hours (40 weeks).

In most states you make more managing a Panda Express than being a teacher.

[rocky_warrior]

55 hours a day is pretty common, unless you completely mail it in and don't put in any effort.

Whoa!  Lots of people mailing it in I guess.   

[tower912]

Thank you for jumping on the 55 hour day grenade

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If you work for a Big Four firm and expect to work 40 hours a week, you won't last very long.

Does Jay Bee moonlight for a Big Four firm?

[Jay Bee]

Does Jay Bee moonlight for a Big Four firm?

This isn't about me, but I've work with and at consistently since the days of the Big Six. More than a quarter-century. And an avg of 40 hours a week doesn't fly. Not even close. But, you know that.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This isn't about me, but I've work with and at consistently since the days of the Big Six. More than a quarter-century. And an avg of 40 hours a week doesn't fly. Not even close. But, you know that.

So no then. And that's my point. There's a difference between "I need to work more than 40 hours of week or I won't advance/get a bad review/be looked down/etc" and "I have 40 hours of work scheduled that I can't do more efficiently and an additional 5-20 hours of work a week that I have to take home or I will lose my job". Also, if you don't look the work culture at a company in most industries, you can leave and go to another one with a different culture. This is an industry wide standard. There's also a difference between a job like teaching where it doesn't matter how efficient you are, you are working more than 40 hours, whereas two employees at a company could complete different amounts of work in the same amount of time. That's where the "time management issues" that you mention come in to play.

Teaching isn't the only profession like this. There are also companies that truly will fire their employees if they work only 40 hours of week. No one is saying teachers work harder than other professions, but they shouldn't be belittled either.

[The Sultan]

I mean, if you want the compensation and the career advancement that comes from working with the Big Four, you are going to work well more than 40 hours a week.

If you want to work 40 hours a week, you can go work for Ma and Pa CPA down the street  And your compensation will reflect that.

That's exactly the problem with teaching right now.  Big Four expectations matched with Ma and Pa compensation.

[4everwarriors]

There's a teacher shortage because nobody wants to work anymore

Yeah, sittin' home on one's fat ass collectin' da bag sure has worked out just fine, aina?

[Uncle Rico]

Yeah, sittin' home on one's fat ass collectin' da bag sure has worked out just fine, aina?

This guy?

https://twitter.com/georgehahn/status/1561919207725465600?s=21&t=lVdDM8AHEpdBE-q7Oh_S7A