MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => COVID-19 => Topic started by: mu_hilltopper on July 09, 2020, 10:24:35 AM
-
Our school district sent out a survey today about parents' thoughts on how the K-12 school year should progress in COVID times.
The first question was a gut check .. the options were "I am not sending my child to school until there is a vaccine" .. followed by other options like "everyone wears masks" .. "split the classes in half" .. etc.
I have two kids in middle school .. extraordinary school, and it's painful to not have them there.
But .. I don't want my kids going to indoor classes. Our family has had a minimal risk exposure since March. If we sent them to school, it would be the riskiest thing they've done by a factor of 10. Frankly, they are healthy lads, but they'll bring it home to us.
I also think it's 10000% inevitable that if they have in-person classes, eventually there'll be a positive test and the school will need to shut down.
I think the (middle/high-) schools should try and have sporadic OUTDOOR meetings/classes, in good weather. Get the teachers and students together, socialize, try to have some kind of lesson, etc. -- Otherwise, 100% virtual learning. I know it's a poor substitute.
Do you have school kids? What are your thoughts?
-
My wife's school district here in Connecticut sent a similar survey to all parents in her district. She said 90% of the surveys came back with "I'm sending my kids to school." The district is setting up for online learning for parents who don't want to risk sending their kids in.
-
My wife's school district here in Connecticut sent a similar survey to all parents in her district. She said 90% of the surveys came back with "I'm sending my kids to school." The district is setting up for online learning for parents who don't want to risk sending their kids in.
our district in WI is sending out a similar survey. I am for the kids back in school. My kids have been active with friends since June. With 2 in high school and having sports started back up at HS July 1 and for one of them aau hoops started mid June, it is the happiest I have seen them since this all started. They need the social interaction daily or we will see a lot of mental health issues
-
Here in the Chicago suburbs, it seems most districts are planning in-person classes, but giving parents a chance to opt out. But if you opt out, you're out for at least the semester, if not the entire school year.
-
I wouldn't have a problem sending my kid to in-person instruction, but I would feel much better if they either alternated half-weeks or days to allow for half the class in at once.
-
I will also say, that if I were a public school teacher nearing retirement, I would be seriously looking at my financial plans right now. I have a friend who was going to teach one or two more years, but decided to retire and got a part time job at Menards instead. (He can get on his wife's medical insurance so that helps.)
-
TBH, I'm surprised with the commentary.
Question for yous .. is sending your kids to school going to be the riskiest thing your family has done in the last ~4 months?
-
Kids need to go to school. The social interaction needs to happen. At some point were going to have to get back to normal for the "greater good"
-
Kids need to go to school. The social interaction needs to happen. At some point were going to have to get back to normal for the "greater good"
This all sounds great and it is what everyone wants, but it strikes me as...
What do we want? Everything back to normal
What are we going to do to achieve it? Nothing!
-
TBH, I'm surprised with the commentary.
Question for yous .. is sending your kids to school going to be the riskiest thing your family has done in the last ~4 months?
Yes, the only enclosed space outside of my home I have been in is the grocery store maybe 6 or 7 times that past 4 months.
-
Kids need to go to school. The social interaction needs to happen. At some point were going to have to get back to normal for the "greater good"
What I see when I read things like this is, "I'm sick of my kids being at home, and I don't want to have to teach them."
Kids don't NEED to go to school. There are over 2 million students who learn from home every year.
I don't have kids, but I would not consider sending them to school without a ton of guarantees.
Anyone advocating for kids going to school as normal this fall is advocating for a massive outbreak.
-
Florida's governor says we have to open all schools for all services for all days.
Palm Beach county promptly says they are going virtual for the foreseeable future.
-
What I see when I read things like this is, "I'm sick of my kids being at home, and I don't want to have to teach them."
Seems harsh.
I don't have kids
There we go.
Precautions need to be taken, but the socialization aspect is very important to development and shouldn't be dismissed like that.
-
This all sounds great and it is what everyone wants, but it strikes me as...
What do we want? Everything back to normal
What are we going to do to achieve it? Nothing!
How do we achieve it? We already actively are getting closer.
The original stay at home order (Which has now been blown in politics...) real reason is missed by many individuals. Health officals knew we weren't going to conquer it by staying home, that wasn't realistic. It was to slow the tide and not overwhelm our medical facilities. Now that we have a steady supply chain and increased care its time to let COVID burn through.
Those who are vulnerable should continue to stay home. As they always should have. However the rest of the world needs to get back to life. I understand the 86 year old hunkering down, I understand the kidney transplant recipient on immunosuppressants hunkering down, I don't understand the perfectly healthy 30 year olds and 15 year olds hunkering down.
As for ideas like children wearing masks. Do we realistically expect an 8 year old to practice social distancing, and proper hygiene throughout the day?
-
What I see when I read things like this is, "I'm sick of my kids being at home, and I don't want to have to teach them."
Kids don't NEED to go to school. There are over 2 million students who learn from home every year.
I don't have kids, but I would not consider sending them to school without a ton of guarantees.
Anyone advocating for kids going to school as normal this fall is advocating for a massive outbreak.
Well, to your first statement.... :o :o ::) ::) ::) then to your "I don't have kids" ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Kids do NEED socialization. Something you are failing to understand. Even kids who learn from home have tons of socialization. School is just the main way most kids receive it.
-
Well, to your first statement.... :o :o ::) ::) ::) then to your "I don't have kids" ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Kids do NEED socialization. Something you are failing to understand. Even kids who learn from home have tons of socialization. School is just the main way most kids receive it.
While I don't disagree, it's not exactly at the top of the list of things that kids NEED. HA point about a lot of guarantees/precautions, as well as having a plan for when an outbreak happens within a school (because one will) are all things that should be prioritized before the need of social interaction.
-
At some point were going to have to get back to normal for the "greater good"
This attitude has everything going swimmingly these days in Florida, Arizona, Texas, etc.
-
2 kids - One still just daycare, the other entering preschool years. Our decision will be whether to 1) send him to a school that we have researched and discussed with other parents, but have never set foot in, or 2)keep him in childcare for another year (assuming they re-open). The third option is that we are not comfortable with
The reality is his half-day school will now be half-day, 2 days a week, and his first interactions with other kids in an education environment in nearly 6 months will be in a building he's never been to with people he's never met. We are really struggling with that, as much as we want him in this school.
The other option is that if we think society is moving recklessly fast (and it is), that we nix all of that, and I flex my work to take 2 days off and doing 'home schooling' from here until there are good-faith solutions in place. We'll need to figure out the socialization (parent pods or whatnot), as falling behind here is what scares me more than anything else.
Full transparency:Let me say, professionally, I am sick of having my kids home ;D We have had some really special moments despite two working parents, but on a day-to-day basis, it really, REALLY sucks.
-
How do we achieve it? We already actively are getting closer.
The original stay at home order (Which has now been blown in politics...) real reason is missed by many individuals. Health officals knew we weren't going to conquer it by staying home, that wasn't realistic. It was to slow the tide and not overwhelm our medical facilities. Now that we have a steady supply chain and increased care its time to let COVID burn through.
Those who are vulnerable should continue to stay home. As they always should have. However the rest of the world needs to get back to life. I understand the 86 year old hunkering down, I understand the kidney transplant recipient on immunosuppressants hunkering down, I don't understand the perfectly healthy 30 year olds and 15 year olds hunkering down.
As for ideas like children wearing masks. Do we realistically expect an 8 year old to practice social distancing, and proper hygiene throughout the day?
I wont derail the thread addressing the other points other than we don't even know if 'burn through' is realistic (mathematically or practically).
I agree with school being a high societal priority -- I think most of the country does.
So my over-arching point is the discussions should be how can we do this without causing out of control spread - and what do we need to give up to get it. Yes, my guess is kids are going to have to do something different this fall like wear a mask or keep their distance as best as possible. We need to catch outbreaks and have a plan when we find them. My guess is we may have to give up other high risk things if we prioritize school (maybe indoor church or singing at church -- and bars).
-
Seems harsh.
There we go.
Precautions need to be taken, but the socialization aspect is very important to development and shouldn't be dismissed like that.
Ah, you're right. Shoot, I forgot that because I don't have kids my opinion means less. I must have been sick that day in school.
-
Full transparency:Let me say, professionally, I am sick of having my kids home ;D We have had some really special moments despite two working parents, but on a day-to-day basis, it really, REALLY sucks.
It's hard. My wife and I just got my mom involved in watching our two year old, and that has made a big difference. But from March until June, it was brutal trying to work and not turn her into a screen zombie. Your day starts early and finishes way late as you make the time up. I know I'll look back on this time with her fondly, but the amount of stress it put us through is huge, and frankly, isn't sustainable.
There's no easy answer to any of this when balancing the child's learning and development, the health of both student and staff, and the impact on working parents. Then you factor in kids who don't have the right home environment to learn virtually, and it's as complicated of a question as we've seen related to this virus.
But hey, we're just sick of our kids.
-
2 kids - One still just daycare, the other entering preschool years. Our decision will be whether to 1) send him to a school that we have researched and discussed with other parents, but have never set foot in, or 2)keep him in childcare for another year (assuming they re-open). The third option is that we are not comfortable with
The reality is his half-day school will now be half-day, 2 days a week, and his first interactions with other kids in an education environment in nearly 6 months will be in a building he's never been to with people he's never met. We are really struggling with that, as much as we want him in this school.
The other option is that if we think society is moving recklessly fast (and it is), that we nix all of that, and I flex my work to take 2 days off and doing 'home schooling' from here until there are good-faith solutions in place. We'll need to figure out the socialization (parent pods or whatnot), as falling behind here is what scares me more than anything else.
Full transparency:Let me say, professionally, I am sick of having my kids home ;D We have had some really special moments despite two working parents, but on a day-to-day basis, it really, REALLY sucks.
Thanks for being candid. I totally get it, and those are totally valid feelings. But I also agree with you that we are rushing into this.
-
What I see when I read things like this is, "I'm sick of my kids being at home, and I don't want to have to teach them."
Kids don't NEED to go to school. There are over 2 million students who learn from home every year.
I don't have kids, but I would not consider sending them to school without a ton of guarantees.
Anyone advocating for kids going to school as normal this fall is advocating for a massive outbreak.
Hards as someone with 4 kids 2 middle school aged and 2 HS aged kids need school kids need their friends. Mom and dad are great for stretches of times but read my post above. My to be senior has had a hell of a time adjusting to life without socializing and he typically is one that sits at home and does not go out much. But he is involved in sports year round and the time with teammates and friends cannot be duplicated. I think it is more the kids are sick of us than we are sick of them. The kids will be safe with covid, if a person (kid or family) has some condition that makes it unsafe then schools need to find a way to help those kids learn.
If you had kids and saw them depressed for 3 months cause of covid and then saw them suddenly back to normal cause they are able to hang with their friends and do normal things then you would be all in with sending them to school.
-
I was actually contemplating starting this exact type of thread a few days ago, and am very curious on thoughts here.
Our district sent out the same survey, options were 1) All E-Learning, 2)Rotate M/W/F one week, then T/Th the following week based on what grade your in, 3) Everyone back, 4) K-3 in school, 4-5 e-learning. I have three kids, two going into fifth, one going into first.
My son Bradley is our big concern, as he had leukemia and a stem cell transplant. Going back to school has given my wife and I cause for concern for any of our kids. If one kid gets it, then obviously everyone can get it. We have not registered our kids for school yet, as we wanted to hear what the go forward plan is. Yesterday the school principal emailed us (and a ton of other people) saying they need us to register now, so they can have an idea on staffing/logistics/etc.
I'm really torn here. Our first grader could really use the classroom experience. My twins going into fifth grade are really good students, I think they'd be fine on e-learning, but my wife and I are looking at seeing if there's a tutor we can get to get them personalized/one on one teaching.
It's also July 9th, my kids are supposed to start school Aug 12th. I know there's a lot to be figured out, but we need more info from our district asap.
-
How do we achieve it? We already actively are getting closer.
The original stay at home order (Which has now been blown in politics...) real reason is missed by many individuals. Health officals knew we weren't going to conquer it by staying home, that wasn't realistic. It was to slow the tide and not overwhelm our medical facilities. Now that we have a steady supply chain and increased care its time to let COVID burn through.
Those who are vulnerable should continue to stay home. As they always should have. However the rest of the world needs to get back to life. I understand the 86 year old hunkering down, I understand the kidney transplant recipient on immunosuppressants hunkering down, I don't understand the perfectly healthy 30 year olds and 15 year olds hunkering down.
As for ideas like children wearing masks. Do we realistically expect an 8 year old to practice social distancing, and proper hygiene throughout the day?
No. "Burning through" was never the alternative to shutting down. Opening responsibly, like they have done in Europe and Asia, with testing, contact tracing, masks, etc. was what was supposed to happening after shutting down.
Opening up irresponsibly, like in Arizona, Texas and Florida, is causing problems.
Those three states could have shut down for six months, but unless they committed to safely opening up, they would have the same problems then that they do now.
-
How do we achieve it? We already actively are getting closer.
The original stay at home order (Which has now been blown in politics...) real reason is missed by many individuals. Health officals knew we weren't going to conquer it by staying home, that wasn't realistic. It was to slow the tide and not overwhelm our medical facilities. Now that we have a steady supply chain and increased care its time to let COVID burn through.
Those who are vulnerable should continue to stay home. As they always should have. However the rest of the world needs to get back to life. I understand the 86 year old hunkering down, I understand the kidney transplant recipient on immunosuppressants hunkering down, I don't understand the perfectly healthy 30 year olds and 15 year olds hunkering down.
As for ideas like children wearing masks. Do we realistically expect an 8 year old to practice social distancing, and proper hygiene throughout the day?
My wife is an elementary school teacher she does not think those kids should wear a mask not a chance they will keep it on and most of the masks will be covered in snot.
Completely agree with what you are saying
-
My wife is an elementary school teacher she does not think those kids should wear a mask not a chance they will keep it on and most of the masks will be covered in snot.
Completely agree with what you are saying
That's funny. My wife is an elementary school teacher and thinks keeping masks on her kids won't be a problem at all. Middle schoolers might be an issue because they're obnoxious, but the younger kids will roll with it just fine.
-
That's funny. My wife is an elementary school teacher and thinks keeping masks on her kids won't be a problem at all. Middle schoolers might be an issue because they're obnoxious, but the younger kids will roll with it just fine.
I agree with this, I took my six year old to get a haircut last week, and he kept his mask on almost religiously the entire time.
-
I will begin by saying I don't have kids in school anymore, so you can stop reading now if you like.
If you're still reading, I sympathize greatly with those of you dealing with restless kids who miss their friends and teachers, and who will almost certainly learn better in person. And I worry about very real mental health issues stemming from the uncertainty and isolation.
That said, I can't imagine how we can allow schools to reopen without an explosion in new cases. We are already seeing healthcare systems in several states stretched to the limits, with numbers still increasing. And as a couple already mentioned, kids may not keep masks on for extended periods of time, which would make a school an ideal breeding ground for an outbreak.
It's a difficult choice, but the virus doesn't care. If it was me, I would keep my kids home.
-
Hards as someone with 4 kids 2 middle school aged and 2 HS aged kids need school kids need their friends. Mom and dad are great for stretches of times but read my post above. My to be senior has had a hell of a time adjusting to life without socializing and he typically is one that sits at home and does not go out much. But he is involved in sports year round and the time with teammates and friends cannot be duplicated. I think it is more the kids are sick of us than we are sick of them. The kids will be safe with covid, if a person (kid or family) has some condition that makes it unsafe then schools need to find a way to help those kids learn.
If you had kids and saw them depressed for 3 months cause of covid and then saw them suddenly back to normal cause they are able to hang with their friends and do normal things then you would be all in with sending them to school.
Sorry to hear that your child won't be having the fun senior year that they were hoping for. But let me dispel a myth here. There is NO evidence that children won't have long term effects from getting covid.
I see plenty of ADULTS who have been depressed for 3 months, but that is just how life works. I'm sorry, but you're emotionally involved so you are more likely to be irrational about this. What is the plan when we send kids back to school? Just say screw it and let it all happen? Enjoy your teacher's strike! We pay them peanuts, and now you expect them to put themselves at more risk than they already do? I saw your post above, and allowing your children to run around since June is why we are where we are today. They are socializing already, and they're upset? So, it isn't the social aspect they're missing. The prospect of missing out on high school sports? Sorry, we all make sacrifices every day. This should be a teaching moment where you give your children perspective.
-
The argument that kids wouldn't wear masks gets weaker the longer this goes on. Every single person on the planet over the age of 4 either understands how serious a situation this is, or is willfully ignorant. The more the importance of masks gets pushed and the more mask shaming that happens the easier it will be to convince kids younger and younger that they are needed. As much as some people make the ridiculous argument about it effecting their ability to breath, even more people are using them as another means for self expression. Throw Elmo or Elsa on those things, and kids would be showing off their willingness to wear masks.
-
Our school district has already announced they are going back to school in the fall with normal 5 day a week face to face learning. The results of the survey sent a couple weeks ago was over 95% in favor of that.
The very very very, obnoxiously very vocal few posters on here who are straight doom and gloom are thankfully few and far between outside of the scoop world.
The district is allowing for folks like that to opt out and participate in a ramped up e-learning program and they can readdress their family situation every trimester.
There are legitimate medical reasons for kids who are battling heartbreaking illnesses who should not put themselves at increased risk by attending school and I hate that they have to go through that isolation on top of everything else they’re battling, not fair at all. But as many of you already said, if you are a young healthy child you will be just fine.
If you are a high risk parent and are concerned about having your kids bring the virus home. I would suggest putting your kids development and needs first and allow them to get back with their buddies at school and possibly think about finding a short term rental/extended stay hotel to protect yourself. None of the scenarios are great and require sacrifice from someone but as a parent I put the needs of my kids first and foremost and I believe it’s best for them to be back in school.
-
Just to add some information to the discussion, an article about economic challenges schools will face if they open for in-person classes this fall:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/us/schools-reopen-fall.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article
The federal relief package passed in March dedicated $13.5 billion to K-12 education — less than 1 percent of the total stimulus. But education groups estimate that schools will need many times that, and with many local and state budgets already depleted by the economic impact of the coronavirus, it is unclear where it will come from.
-
Our school district has already announced they are going back to school in the fall with normal 5 day a week face to face learning. The results of the survey sent a couple weeks ago was over 95% in favor of that.
The very very very, obnoxiously very vocal few posters on here who are straight doom and gloom are thankfully few and far between outside of the scoop world.
The district is allowing for folks like that to opt out and participate in a ramped up e-learning program and they can readdress their family situation every trimester.
There are legitimate medical reasons for kids who are battling heartbreaking illnesses who should not put themselves at increased risk by attending school and I hate that they have to go through that isolation on top of everything else they’re battling, not fair at all. But as many of you already said, if you are a young healthy child you will be just fine.
If you are a high risk parent and are concerned about having your kids bring the virus home. I would suggest putting your kids development and needs first and allow them to get back with their buddies at school and possibly think about finding a short term rental/extended stay hotel to protect yourself. None of the scenarios are great and require sacrifice from someone but as a parent I put the needs of my kids first and foremost and I believe it’s best for them to be back in school.
LMFAO.
-
How do we achieve it? We already actively are getting closer.
The original stay at home order (Which has now been blown in politics...) real reason is missed by many individuals. Health officals knew we weren't going to conquer it by staying home, that wasn't realistic. It was to slow the tide and not overwhelm our medical facilities. Now that we have a steady supply chain and increased care its time to let COVID burn through.
Those who are vulnerable should continue to stay home. As they always should have. However the rest of the world needs to get back to life. I understand the 86 year old hunkering down, I understand the kidney transplant recipient on immunosuppressants hunkering down, I don't understand the perfectly healthy 30 year olds and 15 year olds hunkering down.
As for ideas like children wearing masks. Do we realistically expect an 8 year old to practice social distancing, and proper hygiene throughout the day?
Most of Europe and much of Asia and Oceania disagree with your statement.
-
If you are a high risk parent and are concerned about having your kids bring the virus home. I would suggest putting your kids development and needs first and allow them to get back with their buddies at school and possibly think about finding a short term rental/extended stay hotel to protect yourself.
Simple and cost effective!
-
Our school district has already announced they are going back to school in the fall with normal 5 day a week face to face learning. The results of the survey sent a couple weeks ago was over 95% in favor of that.
The very very very, obnoxiously very vocal few posters on here who are straight doom and gloom are thankfully few and far between outside of the scoop world.
The district is allowing for folks like that to opt out and participate in a ramped up e-learning program and they can readdress their family situation every trimester.
There are legitimate medical reasons for kids who are battling heartbreaking illnesses who should not put themselves at increased risk by attending school and I hate that they have to go through that isolation on top of everything else they’re battling, not fair at all. But as many of you already said, if you are a young healthy child you will be just fine.
If you are a high risk parent and are concerned about having your kids bring the virus home. I would suggest putting your kids development and needs first and allow them to get back with their buddies at school and possibly think about finding a short term rental/extended stay hotel to protect yourself. None of the scenarios are great and require sacrifice from someone but as a parent I put the needs of my kids first and foremost and I believe it’s best for them to be back in school.
It must be so nice to both be blissfully unaware of what is going on right now, and so financially secure that renting another household is just passed off as thoughtful advice. I guess a single parent should just hire a full time caregiver too.
I mean I think schools should default to opening up with in-person instruction. But to act like it is it is no big deal, and there isn't a lot of risk here, is mind boggingly out of touch.
-
Sorry to hear that your child won't be having the fun senior year that they were hoping for. But let me dispel a myth here. There is NO evidence that children won't have long term effects from getting covid.
I see plenty of ADULTS who have been depressed for 3 months, but that is just how life works. I'm sorry, but you're emotionally involved so you are more likely to be irrational about this. What is the plan when we send kids back to school? Just say screw it and let it all happen? Enjoy your teacher's strike! We pay them peanuts, and now you expect them to put themselves at more risk than they already do? I saw your post above, and allowing your children to run around since June is why we are where we are today. They are socializing already, and they're upset? So, it isn't the social aspect they're missing. The prospect of missing out on high school sports? Sorry, we all make sacrifices every day. This should be a teaching moment where you give your children perspective.
Thanks for the parenting advice. Yes we do make sacrifices everyday and my family has made plenty. Sorry I am not going to sit in my house until I get a vaccine but we are doing things safely here.
-
Thanks for the parenting advice. Yes we do make sacrifices everyday and my family has made plenty. Sorry I am not going to sit in my house until I get a vaccine but we are doing things safely here.
You're letting your children run around with others for the last month, by your own admission. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you that is irresponsible. And your kids are picking up on it, I promise.
I didn't say you had to sit in your house, and I certainly haven't. There are plenty of ways to enjoy the world around you without being reckless.
-
You're letting your children run around with others for the last month, by your own admission. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you that is irresponsible. And your kids are picking up on it, I promise.
I didn't say you had to sit in your house, and I certainly haven't. There are plenty of ways to enjoy the world around you without being reckless.
This is what I think a few people are missing. Even regarding schools, there are ways to continue educating, allow socializing and still be as safe as possible. Toppers outside idea (although would vary regionally), Sultan's alternating schedule etc. Schools will most likely return in the fall, but they will 100% NOT be back to pre-Covid normal. The people that are accusing others of being extreme seem to think that these are the only two ways to do so.
-
You're letting your children run around with others for the last month, by your own admission. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you that is irresponsible. And your kids are picking up on it, I promise.
I didn't say you had to sit in your house, and I certainly haven't. There are plenty of ways to enjoy the world around you without being reckless.
Says the guy with no kids. How do you suggest kids enjoy their summer then?
-
It must be so nice to both be blissfully unaware of what is going on right now, and so financially secure that renting another household is just passed off as thoughtful advice. I guess a single parent should just hire a full time caregiver too.
I mean I think schools should default to opening up with in-person instruction. But to act like it is it is no big deal, and there isn't a lot of risk here, is mind boggingly out of touch.
Or maybe you, outside your bubble of doom and gloom, are the one who is out of touch.
For our district if you’re a single parent and those scenarios are not feasible then the option of e-learning is there for you. I was really happy with the solution and package they came up with.
-
Simple and cost effective!
I didn’t say it was simple, easy, or cost effective. But for me the alternative of shutting schools for the fall is more complicated, difficult, and unfair to kids.
-
I will begin by saying I don't have kids in school anymore, so you can stop reading now if you like.
If you're still reading, I sympathize greatly with those of you dealing with restless kids who miss their friends and teachers, and who will almost certainly learn better in person. And I worry about very real mental health issues stemming from the uncertainty and isolation.
That said, I can't imagine how we can allow schools to reopen without an explosion in new cases. We are already seeing healthcare systems in several states stretched to the limits, with numbers still increasing. And as a couple already mentioned, kids may not keep masks on for extended periods of time, which would make a school an ideal breeding ground for an outbreak.
It's a difficult choice, but the virus doesn't care. If it was me, I would keep my kids home.
This is where my wife and I are on the spectrum. And there are other considerations: I want my kids to see their grandparents and great-grandparents who are vulnerable. Our circle is airtight. The second they go to school or daycare, that's gone, and it's gone until this thing is over.
-
Or maybe you, outside your bubble of doom and gloom, are the one who is out of touch.
Yeah I don't think so. Just look around. Large crowds gathering indoors is now this thing spreads.
Is your district requiring mitigation like masking...distancing...tracing, etc? With a pivot to online learning when larger outbreaks occur? That's the only way it will work.
-
I didn’t say it was simple, easy, or cost effective. But for me the alternative of shutting schools for the fall is more complicated, difficult, and unfair to kids.
Yeah, but that's not what you wrote. You wrote that parents who had concerns about their kids bringing home the virus should move out and set up a second home. Which is a bad idea for many reasons that have nothing to do with cost. Cost is just the icing on the bad cake.
-
Says the guy with no kids. How do you suggest kids enjoy their summer then?
- Go on a family road trip
- Hike in a state park
- Ride a bike
- Play video games
- Learn to cook
- Watch videos, and do science experiments
There are hundreds of ideas out there if you BOTHERED to even look. But its easier to complain.
https://rochester.kidsoutandabout.com/content/250-creative-ways-keep-your-family-sane-during-covid-19-crisis
Look, I did this all without having a child of my own! As if having a child gives you some sort of insight into how to raise one. LOL.
-
If you are a high risk parent and are concerned about having your kids bring the virus home. I would suggest putting your kids development and needs first and allow them to get back with their buddies at school and possibly think about finding a short term rental/extended stay hotel to protect yourself.
Cool. You can put the kid in foster care.
-
Cool. You can put the kid in foster care.
Not sure what you’re referring too there....I’m suggesting the option of what a lot of medical workers did during the early days of the pandemic. If they lived under the same roof of someone who is considered high risk a lot of them stayed with other friends, family, or yes even possibly rented a RV or an apartment for a couple months.
Somehow they managers to do this without sending their kids into foster care.
What a moronic thing to say.
-
- Go on a family road trip
- Hike in a state park
- Ride a bike
- Play video games
- Learn to cook
- Watch videos, and do science experiments
There are hundreds of ideas out there if you BOTHERED to even look. But its easier to complain.
https://rochester.kidsoutandabout.com/content/250-creative-ways-keep-your-family-sane-during-covid-19-crisis
Look, I did this all without having a child of my own! As if having a child gives you some sort of insight into how to raise one. LOL.
Wait you’re joking right? “As if having a child gives you some sort of insight into how to raise a child”.
Going back to my original post and what our district decided to do. If you feel it’s best for your family situation to home school your kid that’s an option you’ll be able to do and that they fully support.
For the 95% of folks who filled out the survey saying they were comfortable sending their kids back for in person normal school schedule, they’ll also be able to do that.
There are more meetings for parents to attend next week where the district plans to share some of the safety measures they’ll be putting in place.
They’ve already announced they opened up additional buildings across the district and will be turning them into classrooms to move 4K and kindergarten into those buildings. With the freed up space in the main school buildings class sizes will be smaller to allow for more social distancing.
All kids and visitors will also have temp checks every morning before entering school. If there is a sign of a fever they will not be allowed to enter and be sent home. Nothing said about mask requirement at this point.
-
I have an 8th grader to be at a Catholic school. They are planning on in-person classes this fall. But they are also making contingency plans. I doubt there will be scholastic sports at all this next year.
Travel baseball is in high gear. I don't know what August will bring as many of the kids theoretically prepare for football.
I think the prudent thing to do is to be making two sets of plans.
-
Yeah, but that's not what you wrote. You wrote that parents who had concerns about their kids bringing home the virus should move out and set up a second home. Which is a bad idea for many reasons that have nothing to do with cost. Cost is just the icing on the bad cake.
A bunch of medical workers did this early on and there selflessness was praised and lauded on nightly newscasts over and over, rightfully so!
Again I didn’t say it’s be easy or ideal but it’s something to be considered.
-
There are more meetings for parents to attend next week where the district plans to share some of the safety measures they’ll be putting in place.
They’ve already announced they opened up additional buildings across the district and will be turning them into classrooms to move 4K and kindergarten into those buildings. With the freed up space in the main school buildings class sizes will be smaller to allow for more social distancing.
All kids and visitors will also have temp checks every morning before entering school. If there is a sign of a fever they will not be allowed to enter and be sent home. Nothing said about mask requirement at this point.
These are all great steps, and it looks though the district is taking things very seriously. More seriously than you did in your original post in this topic.
-
A bunch of medical workers did this early on and there selflessness was praised and lauded on nightly newscasts over and over, rightfully so!
Again I didn’t say it’s be easy or ideal but it’s something to be considered.
One is life or death and the other is in-person school. Quite the stretch.
-
One is life or death and the other is in-person school. Quite the stretch.
Sure. Up to the parent or parents to make that decision.
If for them the cons outweigh the pros, home school your kids while most everyone can go back to school.
-
Wait you’re joking right? “As if having a child gives you some sort of insight into how to raise a child”.
Going back to my original post and what our district decided to do. If you feel it’s best for your family situation to home school your kid that’s an option you’ll be able to do and that they fully support.
For the 95% of folks who filled out the survey saying they were comfortable sending their kids back for in person normal school schedule, they’ll also be able to do that.
There are more meetings for parents to attend next week where the district plans to share some of the safety measures they’ll be putting in place.
They’ve already announced they opened up additional buildings across the district and will be turning them into classrooms to move 4K and kindergarten into those buildings. With the freed up space in the main school buildings class sizes will be smaller to allow for more social distancing.
All kids and visitors will also have temp checks every morning before entering school. If there is a sign of a fever they will not be allowed to enter and be sent home. Nothing said about mask requirement at this point.
Of course I'm not joking. You asked for examples, you got them, and now they're not good enough. ::) ::) ::)
And so you were being disingenuous from the start. I said I'd be okay with school if there were certain guarantees.
-
Sure. Up to the parent or parents to make that decision.
If for them the cons outweigh the pros, home school your kids while most everyone can go back to school.
Who will be teaching these kids? As if districts aren't having problems staffing schools already. Now its okay to make class sizes smaller? Talk about spitting in the faces of teachers everywhere.
I wonder if we will be giving our educators hazard pay. Since we've now decided they are essential.
-
Who will be teaching these kids? As if districts aren't having problems staffing schools already. Now its okay to make class sizes smaller? Talk about spitting in the faces of teachers everywhere.
I wonder if we will be giving our educators hazard pay. Since we've now decided they are essential.
No, we'll make it just like their school equipment and make themsl source and buy their own PPE
-
Of course I'm not joking. You asked for examples, you got them, and now they're not good enough. ::) ::) ::)
And so you were being disingenuous from the start. I said I'd be okay with school if there were certain guarantees.
You google searched recommendations were just fine. I was asking about if you were joking about your idea that you don’t have to have kids to know how to raise kids. I used to think that same thing....til I had kids.
-
Who will be teaching these kids? As if districts aren't having problems staffing schools already. Now its okay to make class sizes smaller? Talk about spitting in the faces of teachers everywhere.
I wonder if we will be giving our educators hazard pay. Since we've now decided they are essential.
And not just the teachers, but the lower-paid workers like bus drivers, paraprofessionals and teacher aides, cafeteria workers, custodial staff and such. They are just as necessary and equally at risk, but with far less compensation.
-
Who will be teaching these kids? As if districts aren't having problems staffing schools already. Now its okay to make class sizes smaller? Talk about spitting in the faces of teachers everywhere.
I wonder if we will be giving our educators hazard pay. Since we've now decided they are essential.
I can only speak to my own conversations and the teachers in my kids school that I’ve come to know over the years. Let’s just say they don’t share your same concern for being back in the classroom.
-
And not just the teachers, but the lower-paid workers like bus drivers, paraprofessionals and teacher aides, cafeteria workers, custodial staff and such. They are just as necessary and equally at risk, but with far less compensation.
Surprised you’re not sharing these same concerns and demands of hazard pay for the Home Depot staff, barbers, or hell any of the other thousands of professions that are back to work.
Aside from bars and restaurants folks are back to work. Not sure why teachers, custodians, etc should be treated any differently.
-
You google searched recommendations were just fine. I was asking about if you were joking about your idea that you don’t have to have kids to know how to raise kids. I used to think that same thing....til I had kids.
I know plenty of people who have kids who don't know how to raise them. Plus, I know plenty of people who would make fantastic parents, but aren't able to.
One does not follow the other here.
-
Copied from a Facebook post. ‘Merica.
“So if you didn’t catch this mornings crapshow, it went basically like this:
The CDC put out its official recommendations and requirements states should meet before reopening schools.
Trump went to twitter, crapted on the CDC recommendations, demanding that k-12 schools fully open up in the fall. He threatened to cut federal funding if they do not.
Then the coronavirus task force held a press conference, minus Fauci, because he’s on the President’s crap list.
Betsy Devos said she really really really wants kids back in school. She does not know how to do this, offered no suggestions. Just that they need to open, and leaves it up to local officials to figure it out.
Vice President Pence said children are resilient. Basically made out of cartilage with healthy lungs. They probably won’t get sick, so we shouldn’t worry about them. There is also no disagreement between the CDC and Trump. Trump wants schools to open, and just doesn’t want the CDC’s guidelines to be the reason for schools not opening?
Yes, he actually said he doesn’t want states to keep their schools closed just because their own CDC says it is not safe to open.
So the VP says, don’t worry, let’s bring up the Director of the CDC to clarify. -And I could‘ve sworn I heard this guy gulp off camera.
But the director of the CDC comes up and says he also wants schools to open safely. He said he likes his job and wants to keep it, therefore, he is also in full agreement with Trump, despite the guidelines they released hours before.
So then Dr. Birx comes on and says half the country has seen a surge of new cases. The country is worse off than it was back at the start of all this. She said they should return to phase 1 and start all over.
Now, an astute reader may wonder how do half the states return to phase 1, and still expect to open by fall? Good question. ..... And while you were thinking about it, Birx tries to leave the podium.
But before she gets away, Pence stops her, suggests she ‘talk about that other thing about the children’. She hesitates, then agrees.
She comes back up to the mic, says most children probably won’t die. Maybe 0.02%. And usually the ones who die were already sick, so you parents at home may want to keep an eye on them. Oh- and we have virtually no data on how transmissible the virus is in children because we’ve barely tested any of them, but let me get out of your hair.
Pence comes back and says, see, we’re good here.
————————-
So while all that is going Cuomo is holding his own press conference.
He says I don’t even give a crap what Trump is saying. It’s not worth responding to the clown. States control school openings, and we will do it as safely as possible, end of discussion.
Other states blew off our warnings, and now they are paying the price. You want to fix your states? Pull your heads out of your asses and follow our example.
—————————
And Fauci has gone total rogue. He has been giving interviews across the media spectrum, politely telling anyone who will listen that following trump’s orders regarding the Coronavirus will lead to certain doom. Death and economic disaster on a scale never seen before. Please turn back while you still can.
And now you are filled in.“
-
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1280543238181576704.html
A Thread: America's teachers have a lot of questions regarding the push to reopen schools. Take our questions seriously, and do not try to shame to guilt us into compliance. Know that we WANT to be back in our classrooms with our students, but do not expect us to be martyrs. 1/20
Desks 6 ft apart (in some states 3 ft...what?!?) Many classrooms do not have desks, but have 5-6 tables where students sit shoulder to shoulder. How are we supposed to spread students out? Is someone buying desks? With what money? Schools are facing budget cuts & layoffs. 2/20
Students cannot share materials. Most of the materials in classrooms have been purchased BY teachers. If students cannot share, and students need their own personal sets of materials, who is purchasing these supplies? (again... with slashed budgets) 3/20
Teachers have to beg for donations of Clorox wipes and tissues from their families and friends to support cold/flu season. Who is providing ALL of the new disinfectant materials for classrooms? Are teachers expected to do the cleaning? Will they receive hazard pay? 4/20
Who is paying for masks and required PPE for teachers? Who is ensuring that these remain stocked? Will students be provided masks? What if they come to school without one, or refuse to wear one? What about our youngest students who can't put them on themselves? 5/20
We are laying off staff, but are in need of more teachers to comply with smaller class sizes. Our classrooms are currently filled to the brim & teachers are working out of modified closets. How are we paying for space & funds for these additional classrooms and teachers? 6/20
School buildings have been deteriorating for years. Many classrooms do not have AC or windows that open (if they have windows at all). How are we ensuring proper air ventilation in these spaces. 7/20
Why are teachers being left out of conversations? Why were questionnaires sent to families & not teachers? Why are people making the decisions not asking teachers if those decisions are actually feasible in a classroom setting? Why are we not at the table? 8/20
Also, why are school boards meeting virtually to discuss opening schools in person? 🧐 9/20
If families are given a choice between remote vs. in person learning, will teachers? Will immunocompromised teachers get priority? What about those caring for immunocompromised or elderly family at home? Will teachers be forced to choose between their jobs and their lives? 10/10
If teachers are forced to quarantine, will that come out of their sick pay? What if they have to quarantine multiple times? Many have 10 days or less of sick time (especially new teachers). What if we just have a cold (schools are germ factories). Can we not come to work? 11/20
If we run out of sick days, will we stop getting paid? What if we have to care for a sick family member? What if our own child's school closes or they have to be quarantined, and we have to stay home? Will we lose our health insurance while being sick? 12/20
If we are burning through sick days, where are we getting subs? There have been sub shortages for years, most include retired teachers who are at risk. What happens when we are inevitably "out of teachers". How are expected to keep up with 2 weeks of sub plans at a time? 13/20
Students are hopefully not being penalized for attendance. Will teachers? Will teachers continue to be evaluated this year? Will teacher "efficiency" be linked to state tests that are holding students to arbitrary grade level expectations they cannot meet right now? 14/20
If we are in the classroom full time, how are we expected to console a crying child from 6 feet away? What if our students can't tie their shoes or button their pants? What about when students fall and get hurt? How do we help them from 6 feet away? 15/20
If cohorts have to be kept together to limit interactions, how are students receiving required services? Are those teachers coming into classrooms (contaminating each room) or are students leaving the classroom, going against "least restrictive environment" requirements 16/20
If we move to a hybrid model, how will teachers be expected to teach full time in the classroom AND plan for remote learning. We cannot be in two places at the same time. If we are 1week on/1 week off, what happens if our own children have different schedules? 17/20
If we move to any form of remote learning, how will we ensure equitable access for our students? What plans will be put in place to focus on the emotional wellbeing of our students? How will we support our most vulnerable populations in the process? 18/20
Why are people using the "children are less likely to spread the virus" as a backbone of arguments, dismissing the fact that hundreds of adults ALSO work in schools? Why are teachers and school staff being discussed as if they are expendable? Why is nobody listening? 19/20
Teachers: be asking these questions. Non-teachers: be asking these questions. There is no GOOD solution here, but forcing people into an unsafe workplace and ask them to continuously do more with less is NOT okay. 20/20
I'm going to go ahead and guess you didn't talk to any actual teachers Pace... because the ones I know (including family members) feel a lot more like this fine woman.
-
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1280543238181576704.html
A Thread: America's teachers have a lot of questions regarding the push to reopen schools. Take our questions seriously, and do not try to shame to guilt us into compliance. Know that we WANT to be back in our classrooms with our students, but do not expect us to be martyrs. 1/20
Desks 6 ft apart (in some states 3 ft...what?!?) Many classrooms do not have desks, but have 5-6 tables where students sit shoulder to shoulder. How are we supposed to spread students out? Is someone buying desks? With what money? Schools are facing budget cuts & layoffs. 2/20
Students cannot share materials. Most of the materials in classrooms have been purchased BY teachers. If students cannot share, and students need their own personal sets of materials, who is purchasing these supplies? (again... with slashed budgets) 3/20
Teachers have to beg for donations of Clorox wipes and tissues from their families and friends to support cold/flu season. Who is providing ALL of the new disinfectant materials for classrooms? Are teachers expected to do the cleaning? Will they receive hazard pay? 4/20
Who is paying for masks and required PPE for teachers? Who is ensuring that these remain stocked? Will students be provided masks? What if they come to school without one, or refuse to wear one? What about our youngest students who can't put them on themselves? 5/20
We are laying off staff, but are in need of more teachers to comply with smaller class sizes. Our classrooms are currently filled to the brim & teachers are working out of modified closets. How are we paying for space & funds for these additional classrooms and teachers? 6/20
School buildings have been deteriorating for years. Many classrooms do not have AC or windows that open (if they have windows at all). How are we ensuring proper air ventilation in these spaces. 7/20
Why are teachers being left out of conversations? Why were questionnaires sent to families & not teachers? Why are people making the decisions not asking teachers if those decisions are actually feasible in a classroom setting? Why are we not at the table? 8/20
Also, why are school boards meeting virtually to discuss opening schools in person? 🧐 9/20
If families are given a choice between remote vs. in person learning, will teachers? Will immunocompromised teachers get priority? What about those caring for immunocompromised or elderly family at home? Will teachers be forced to choose between their jobs and their lives? 10/10
If teachers are forced to quarantine, will that come out of their sick pay? What if they have to quarantine multiple times? Many have 10 days or less of sick time (especially new teachers). What if we just have a cold (schools are germ factories). Can we not come to work? 11/20
If we run out of sick days, will we stop getting paid? What if we have to care for a sick family member? What if our own child's school closes or they have to be quarantined, and we have to stay home? Will we lose our health insurance while being sick? 12/20
If we are burning through sick days, where are we getting subs? There have been sub shortages for years, most include retired teachers who are at risk. What happens when we are inevitably "out of teachers". How are expected to keep up with 2 weeks of sub plans at a time? 13/20
Students are hopefully not being penalized for attendance. Will teachers? Will teachers continue to be evaluated this year? Will teacher "efficiency" be linked to state tests that are holding students to arbitrary grade level expectations they cannot meet right now? 14/20
If we are in the classroom full time, how are we expected to console a crying child from 6 feet away? What if our students can't tie their shoes or button their pants? What about when students fall and get hurt? How do we help them from 6 feet away? 15/20
If cohorts have to be kept together to limit interactions, how are students receiving required services? Are those teachers coming into classrooms (contaminating each room) or are students leaving the classroom, going against "least restrictive environment" requirements 16/20
If we move to a hybrid model, how will teachers be expected to teach full time in the classroom AND plan for remote learning. We cannot be in two places at the same time. If we are 1week on/1 week off, what happens if our own children have different schedules? 17/20
If we move to any form of remote learning, how will we ensure equitable access for our students? What plans will be put in place to focus on the emotional wellbeing of our students? How will we support our most vulnerable populations in the process? 18/20
Why are people using the "children are less likely to spread the virus" as a backbone of arguments, dismissing the fact that hundreds of adults ALSO work in schools? Why are teachers and school staff being discussed as if they are expendable? Why is nobody listening? 19/20
Teachers: be asking these questions. Non-teachers: be asking these questions. There is no GOOD solution here, but forcing people into an unsafe workplace and ask them to continuously do more with less is NOT okay. 20/20
I'm going to go ahead and guess you didn't talk to any actual teachers Pace... because the ones I know (including family members) feel a lot more like this fine woman.
Again, I suggest you get out of the bubble you’re in. It seems like a deep deep dark spot and not healthy at all.
Every adult with a job is being forced back into a work space that guarantees absolutely nothing when it comes to getting or not getting the virus. If this teacher or any other teacher is uncomfortable with the safety measures in place at their school it’d be perfectly understandable for them to take the year off. There’s no shame in that.
-
Hards, great list.
Also, there are so many practical reasons schools will need to be closed. Mostly regarding quarantine. What happens when a student tests positive? The entire class and teacher go into quarantine for 2-weeks? Under such conditions, how long until all classes are in quarantine and everything is back online?
-
Again, I suggest you get out of the bubble you’re in. It seems like a deep deep dark spot and not healthy at all.
Every adult with a job is being forced back into a work space that guarantees absolutely nothing when it comes to getting or not getting the virus. If this teacher or any other teacher is uncomfortable with the safety measures in place at their school it’d be perfectly understandable for them to take the year off. There’s no shame in that.
Every adult? Forced back into work spaces? Yeah, not really.
The good news is teachers are paid so well they definitely have the luxury of having the financial means to go unpaid for a year. :o
-
But as many of you already said, if you are a young healthy child you will be just fine.
Hey Doc, how are you so sure?
Also out of interest - what state are you in?
-
Hards, great list.
Also, there are so many practical reasons schools will need to be closed. Mostly regarding quarantine. What happens when a student tests positive? The entire class and teacher go into quarantine for 2-weeks? Under such conditions, how long until all classes are in quarantine and everything is back online?
I’m not even sure why I’m entertaining this lunacy. Thread started asking about what their kids school districts are doing. Thankfully mine will be back in session and I hope for the sake of every communities kids yours are all the same.
I’ll see myself out now. Forgetful, Hards, Goooo, etc etc enjoy going back to posting on here telling each other how dumb everyone is besides you and the few other posters on here who just repeat the same crap back and forth to each other.
-
Hey Doc, how are you so sure?
Also out of interest - what state are you in?
Why does it matter
-
Hey Doc, how are you so sure?
Also out of interest - what state are you in?
look at the data Gyros
-
Surprised you’re not sharing these same concerns and demands of hazard pay for the Home Depot staff, barbers, or hell any of the other thousands of professions that are back to work.
Aside from bars and restaurants folks are back to work. Not sure why teachers, custodians, etc should be treated any differently.
I never said they should be treated differently. You just assumed that.
-
I’m not even sure why I’m entertaining this lunacy. Thread started asking about what their kids school districts are doing. Thankfully mine will be back in session and I hope for the sake of every communities kids yours are all the same.
I’ll see myself out now. Forgetful, Hards, Goooo, etc etc enjoy going back to posting on here telling each other how dumb everyone is besides you and the few other posters on here who just repeat the same crap back and forth to each other.
You are the only one ranting about how dumb everybody else is. Have a good night.
-
This is another way that the pandemic hits the poor.
Sure kids should be in school. Very few of them live in multi generational households so their families aren’t at a great deal of risk. But In general they’re not at such a great risk scholastically - many have reading and math skill above grade levels. And virtually all of them have access to a computer for online classes.
Inner city kids already behind grade level in reading and math without computers will fall further behind. But if they go back to the classroom there is a much better chance they will bring Covid home to people at greater risk.
-
Again, I suggest you get out of the bubble you’re in. It seems like a deep deep dark spot and not healthy at all.
Every adult with a job is being forced back into a work space that guarantees absolutely nothing when it comes to getting or not getting the virus. If this teacher or any other teacher is uncomfortable with the safety measures in place at their school it’d be perfectly understandable for them to take the year off. There’s no shame in that.
Wow, that’s some seriously deranged level bullcrap. My company is work from home through the end of the year. Many companies and government offices are that way.
Making such an obvious false statement shows we really shouldn’t take anything you say seriously.
-
Again, I suggest you get out of the bubble you’re in. It seems like a deep deep dark spot and not healthy at all.
Every adult with a job is being forced back into a work space that guarantees absolutely nothing when it comes to getting or not getting the virus. If this teacher or any other teacher is uncomfortable with the safety measures in place at their school it’d be perfectly understandable for them to take the year off. There’s no shame in that.
Load of BS my entire company fortune 300, minus sales which will be staggered, is home through the year.
Also here's a fact about MPS school system, you need a certain amount of sick days to retire. You lose sick days on maternity, so now you're going to add Covid to it, include quarantine without any plan on how this effects sick days which teachers desperately don't want to take especially female ones. You're just another person looking to screw over teachers because you can't handle your kids.
-
Load of BS my entire company fortune 300, minus sales which will be staggered, is home through the year.
Also here's a fact about MPS school system, you need a certain amount of sick days to retire. You lose sick days on maternity, so now you're going to add Covid to it, include quarantine without any plan on how this effects sick days which teachers desperately don't want to take especially female ones. You're just another person looking to screw over teachers because you can't handle your kids.
And you’re just another guy who is prioritizing MPS teachers sick day policy over the needs of kids, yikes.
What do you suggest a family do with two working parents and 2-3 kids enrolled in MPS, quit their jobs so teachers don’t have to mess around with their sick pay and can retire earlier?
-
I sympathize with your position, PA02. However, if the rest of the country goes the way the south is currently going, there won't be in person classes. Pretty simple.
-
I’m not even sure why I’m entertaining this lunacy. Thread started asking about what their kids school districts are doing. Thankfully mine will be back in session and I hope for the sake of every communities kids yours are all the same.
I’ll see myself out now. Forgetful, Hards, Goooo, etc etc enjoy going back to posting on here telling each other how dumb everyone is besides you and the few other posters on here who just repeat the same crap back and forth to each other.
Bye. Just remember, your mindset is symbolic of the problem.
-
This is another way that the pandemic hits the poor.
Sure kids should be in school. Very few of them live in multi generational households so their families aren’t at a great deal of risk. But In general they’re not at such a great risk scholastically - many have reading and math skill above grade levels. And virtually all of them have access to a computer for online classes.
Inner city kids already behind grade level in reading and math without computers will fall further behind. But if they go back to the classroom there is a much better chance they will bring Covid home to people at greater risk.
Correct. A small issue is the kids getting sick. A larger issue is who they spread the virus to.
Bringing a bunch of people into small, poorly ventilated spaces is a problem. Can it be done safely? I'm not 100% sure it can, but IMO we have to try. Space them out. Mask everyone. If there are outbreaks, shut everything down, go remote, learn and try again. There are no good choices, but this may be the best one.
But to suggest that parents at-risk should rent other households, or dismiss the concerns of teachers, is...simply bizarre.
-
Bye. Just remember, your mindset is symbolic of the problem.
Hi. Just remember your mindset is of the 5-10% minority
-
Hi. Just remember your mindset is of the 5-10% minority
What mindset is that? I agree that we should try in-person teaching, but to brush off the concerns of teachers and parents is part of the problem.
And if that makes me in the 5-10% minority, well fine. I'm not wrong though. It is fraught with problems. And if its not handled well, those problems will snowball and make everything worse.
-
Correct. A small issue is the kids getting sick. A larger issue is who they spread the virus to.
Bringing a bunch of people into small, poorly ventilated spaces is a problem. Can it be done safely? I'm not 100% sure it can, but IMO we have to try. Space them out. Mask everyone. If there are outbreaks, shut everything down, go remote, learn and try again. There are no good choices, but this may be the best one.
But to suggest that parents at-risk should rent other households, or dismiss the concerns of teachers, is...simply bizarre.
Dismiss the concerns of teachers? You’re putting words in my mouth.
I dont think the renting of an apt is that strange if you’re a parent that feels it’s important for your kids to be back in school but you want to protect your own health. But it’s ok for us to disagree on that.
Glad we agree schools should be open in the fall though, good morning Fluffy!
-
This is another way that the pandemic hits the poor.
Sure kids should be in school. Very few of them live in multi generational households so their families aren’t at a great deal of risk. But In general they’re not at such a great risk scholastically - many have reading and math skill above grade levels. And virtually all of them have access to a computer for online classes.
Inner city kids already behind grade level in reading and math without computers will fall further behind. But if they go back to the classroom there is a much better chance they will bring Covid home to people at greater risk.
Absolutely. Imagine being a single parent of a young child. The financial and ethical dilemmas are terrible to think about.
-
And you’re just another guy who is prioritizing MPS teachers sick day policy over the needs of kids, yikes.
What do you suggest a family do with two working parents and 2-3 kids enrolled in MPS, quit their jobs so teachers don’t have to mess around with their sick pay and can retire earlier?
Lol you didn't even deny it. Not at all I'm another guy who would like to be able to take a trip with his girlfriend at some point without her feeling worried she'd never be able to because maternity time or retirement in this supposedly "great country". Or is maternity not a right to you, because teachers should be a personal nanny? And prioritizing over needs of kids? Take a step out of your office and teach the kid yourself. Hire a tutor, do Kahn academy. There's a number of ideas where you aren't forcing teachers back, paying for PPE out of a already poor salaries, to be exposed.
Well you're so cavalier about exposure and love telling other people to spend there money on apartments/RVs to "make a sacrifice" so you can send little Johnny to school then here's a response out of your book. why don't they hire an au pair or send their kids to a charter or private school where they'd have much more control over when and how they open.
You asked for my opinion regarding the inner city so here it is. Public school teachers should not be forced into these front lines without many of those questions hards_alumni listed being answered correctly. PPE should be a right if you're a teacher it's not an expense, quarantine or getting Covid should not be coming out of sick days. Classes should be staggered by two days a week in person, next week three days to create social distancing. Set up the class room using various partitions as well. Lastly, teachers are not nanny's or caretakers. Your mindset seems to focused on them being essentially nanny's, if a kid isn't there to learn then this year there should be harsher penalties that get that kid out of school.
-
Dismiss the concerns of teachers? You’re putting words in my mouth.
I dont think the renting of an apt is that strange if you’re a parent that feels it’s important for your kids to be back in school but you want to protect your own health. But it’s ok for us to disagree on that.
Glad we agree schools should be open in the fall though, good morning Fluffy!
I mean I guess you aren’t “dismissing the concerns of the teachers,” but when your solution to their concerns is, “Hey, if you’re concerned then you should take the year off. Everyone would understand!” Well, you’re dismissing the concerns of the teachers. How many teachers do you think have the luxury of being able to make $0.00 for a full year?
I do appreciate that you didn’t know “why you’re entertaining this lunacy” and that your “see yourself out.” That went well.
-
She comes back up to the mic, says most children probably won’t die. Maybe 0.02%. And usually the ones who die were already sick, so you parents at home may want to keep an eye on them. Oh- and we have virtually no data on how transmissible the virus is in children because we’ve barely tested any of them, but let me get out of your hair.
It boggles me that a seeming side issue that is hardly touched on by the "gotta open schools" crowd is that while the kids have lower deaths rates, they are going to be massive disease vectors. You might as well be living with several hundred families at once.
-
It boggles me that a seeming side issue that is hardly touched on by the "gotta open schools" crowd is that while the kids have lower deaths rates, they are going to be massive disease vectors. You might as well be living with several hundred families at once.
just get an apartment/RV because you know everybody can afford that
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1280923202303209472
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1280923202303209472
We’ve become really numb to the numbers, myself included. Scary to think about.
-
We’ve become really numb to the numbers, myself included. Scary to think about.
That's what the administration is banking on. Important to keep the eye on the human cost, not raw % that ignore the people behind it.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1280923202303209472
We STILL dont know the long term effects of infection - we know it causes organ damage, neurological damage, lung lesions, in even the asymptomatic. Does that hold true for kids? WE DON'T KNOW! This is all one big lab experiment on our nation's children.../8
most important tweet of the thread.
-
Lol you didn't even deny it. Not at all I'm another guy who would like to be able to take a trip with his girlfriend at some point without her feeling worried she'd never be able to because maternity time or retirement in this supposedly "great country". Or is maternity not a right to you, because teachers should be a personal nanny? And prioritizing over needs of kids? Take a step out of your office and teach the kid yourself. Hire a tutor, do Kahn academy. There's a number of ideas where you aren't forcing teachers back, paying for PPE out of a already poor salaries, to be exposed.
Well you're so cavalier about exposure and love telling other people to spend there money on apartments/RVs to "make a sacrifice" so you can send little Johnny to school then here's a response out of your book. why don't they hire an au pair or send their kids to a charter or private school where they'd have much more control over when and how they open.
You asked for my opinion regarding the inner city so here it is. Public school teachers should not be forced into these front lines without many of those questions hards_alumni listed being answered correctly. PPE should be a right if you're a teacher it's not an expense, quarantine or getting Covid should not be coming out of sick days. Classes should be staggered by two days a week in person, next week three days to create social distancing. Set up the class room using various partitions as well. Lastly, teachers are not nanny's or caretakers. Your mindset seems to focused on them being essentially nanny's, if a kid isn't there to learn then this year there should be harsher penalties that get that kid out of school.
When have I ever suggested them as being a nanny? I literally said it’s important for kids to get back to school for learning, daily structure, social interaction, etc. never once said damn it, I need someone to watch my kids.
You didn’t answer my question about the family with 2-3 kids and both parents who work and employer doesn’t allow them to work from home. If in person teaching doesn’t happen in the fall, what should those parents do? Jockey recommended possibly foster care?
-
just get an apartment/RV because you know everybody can afford that
Again if that’s not a reasonable solution for a family. Online learning is the way to go.
I didn’t say the apt solution was affordable or made sense for the majority of folks, simply an option for some to consider. Like the healthcare workers who did it or I saw stories of truck drivers and other essential workers doing the same. It’s not a far fetched thing, lots of stories highlighted over the past few months of it happening.
-
I mean I guess you aren’t “dismissing the concerns of the teachers,” but when your solution to their concerns is, “Hey, if you’re concerned then you should take the year off. Everyone would understand!” Well, you’re dismissing the concerns of the teachers. How many teachers do you think have the luxury of being able to make $0.00 for a full year?
I do appreciate that you didn’t know “why you’re entertaining this lunacy” and that your “see yourself out.” That went well.
I didn’t say they shouldn’t get paid. Teachers who aren’t comfortable with classroom setting can help with the online learning program until everyone is comfortable getting back into the classroom.
There’s reasonable solutions here that if you’re willing to find can allow for as normal of a fall schedule as possible with limiting risk. Or we can just continue complaining about what if scenarios.
-
I didn’t say they shouldn’t get paid. Teachers who aren’t comfortable with classroom setting can help with the online learning program until everyone is comfortable getting back into the classroom.
There’s reasonable solutions here that if you’re willing to find can allow for as normal of a fall schedule as possible with limiting risk. Or we can just continue complaining about what if scenarios.
But they really aren't 'what if' scenarios.
-
“If the meeting to discuss whether or not to open schools has to be held as a ZOOM call, maybe you shouldn’t open the schools.”
-
I didn’t say they shouldn’t get paid. Teachers who aren’t comfortable with classroom setting can help with the online learning program until everyone is comfortable getting back into the classroom.
There’s reasonable solutions here that if you’re willing to find can allow for as normal of a fall schedule as possible with limiting risk. Or we can just continue complaining about what if scenarios.
You literally said "take the year off" when has that ever meant anything other than unpaid? I agree there's reasonable solutions, so far you have offered few and rather than address the reasonable concerns Hards listed you brushed them away.
When have I ever suggested them as being a nanny? I literally said it’s important for kids to get back to school for learning, daily structure, social interaction, etc. never once said damn it, I need someone to watch my kids.
You didn’t answer my question about the family with 2-3 kids and both parents who work and employer doesn’t allow them to work from home. If in person teaching doesn’t happen in the fall, what should those parents do? Jockey recommended possibly foster care?
You second paragraph saying referring to two working parents implies they have nowhere else to send their kids so send em to school. That means utilizing teachers as a nanny. The other reason I thought you were thinking that was because I misread your argument about children's activities with Hards, my bad on that front.
I don't recall you literally saying "it’s important for kids to get back to school for learning, daily structure, social interaction, etc." but I do know people misusing literally, literally drives me crazy.
I don't need to answer that specific use case, they aren't my concern. it's the teachers that are my concern because that's who I'm involved with. The kids can utilize online learning, in a group setting of rotating parents or nanny with would be classmates for all I care. That way you are still exposing your family to the same amount of people without forcing an underpaid employee to a dangerous work setting. If teachers are given sponsored adequate PPE, sterilization measures are taken, Covid specific quarantine and diagnosis are not out of sick pay, and there's thinning of a class size then I'm good with going back. At this time, however, you need to realize that not every district is like the seemingly extremely prepared and well funded one that your kids attend.
-
But they really aren't 'what if' scenarios.
Exactly. Kids will get sick. They will bring it home with the and their parents and grandparents and siblings will get sick. Teachers and administrators will get sick. To pretend this is "what if" or "worst case" is like saying people who predict snow will come in the winter in Milwaukee are just worrying about "what if" situations and it could just stay 90 degrees year round.
-
You literally said "take the year off" when has that ever meant anything other than unpaid? I agree there's reasonable solutions, so far you have offered few and rather than address the reasonable concerns Hards listed you brushed them away.
You second paragraph saying referring to two working parents implies they have nowhere else to send their kids so send em to school. That means utilizing teachers as a nanny. The other reason I thought you were thinking that was because I misread your argument about children's activities with Hards, my bad on that front.
I don't recall you literally saying "it’s important for kids to get back to school for learning, daily structure, social interaction, etc." but I do know people misusing literally, literally drives me crazy.
I don't need to answer that specific use case, they aren't my concern. it's the teachers that are my concern because that's who I'm involved with. The kids can utilize online learning, in a group setting of rotating parents or nanny with would be classmates for all I care. That way you are still exposing your family to the same amount of people without forcing an underpaid employee to a dangerous work setting. If teachers are given sponsored adequate PPE, sterilization measures are taken, Covid specific quarantine and diagnosis are not out of sick pay, and there's thinning of a class size then I'm good with going back. At this time, however, you need to realize that not every district is like the seemingly extremely prepared and well funded one that your kids attend.
Ok thank you for at least acknowledging your scope of concern throughout this thread. It’s solely on the teachers but when it comes to students and parents 🤷♂️
-
Interesting take on what a day in school would look like:
https://www.facebook.com/katheryn.wood.9/posts/1585566444944146
"On Monday, district employees worked on staging and filming "Return to School"videos to communicate to families what to expect for Fall 2020. Here are a few moments we captured that we want to share with you." -(Fullerton, California)
-
You literally said "take the year off" when has that ever meant anything other than unpaid? I agree there's reasonable solutions, so far you have offered few and rather than address the reasonable concerns Hards listed you brushed them away.
You second paragraph saying referring to two working parents implies they have nowhere else to send their kids so send em to school. That means utilizing teachers as a nanny. The other reason I thought you were thinking that was because I misread your argument about children's activities with Hards, my bad on that front.
I don't recall you literally saying "it’s important for kids to get back to school for learning, daily structure, social interaction, etc." but I do know people misusing literally, literally drives me crazy.
I don't need to answer that specific use case, they aren't my concern. it's the teachers that are my concern because that's who I'm involved with. The kids can utilize online learning, in a group setting of rotating parents or nanny with would be classmates for all I care. That way you are still exposing your family to the same amount of people without forcing an underpaid employee to a dangerous work setting. If teachers are given sponsored adequate PPE, sterilization measures are taken, Covid specific quarantine and diagnosis are not out of sick pay, and there's thinning of a class size then I'm good with going back. At this time, however, you need to realize that not every district is like the seemingly extremely prepared and well funded one that your kids attend.
My kids “literally” go to public school so not sure they’re any better or worse funded then other public schools across the state.
Great leadership within the district though with principles etc. That could be the difference but I hope others replicate what they got going on.
-
My kids “literally” go to public school so not sure they’re any better or worse funded then other public schools across the state.
Great leadership within the district though with principles etc. That could be the difference but I hope others replicate what they got going on.
... you don't actually believe that every public school is created and funded equal do you?
I mean seriously there's no way an educated individual believes that your suburban district is funded equally as an Inner city non flagship school, equally as a City flagship school, or equally as a country multiple township HS.
-
Ok thank you for at least acknowledging your scope of concern throughout this thread. It’s solely on the teachers but when it comes to students and parents 🤷♂️
You know who'd like to be parents but won't be able to with your "so sad too bad" plan for sick pay? Teachers.
-
Interesting take on what a day in school would look like:
https://www.facebook.com/katheryn.wood.9/posts/1585566444944146
"On Monday, district employees worked on staging and filming "Return to School"videos to communicate to families what to expect for Fall 2020. Here are a few moments we captured that we want to share with you." -(Fullerton, California)
This is worth reading for the facebook comments alone. Unintentional comedy GOLD.
-
You know who'd like to be parents but won't be able to with your "so sad too bad" plan for sick pay? Teachers.
🤦♂️
-
🤦♂️
Facepalm all you want. Until you seem to get just how absurd the sick pay issue is I'm just going to keep repeating it.
-
Since as a country we're apparently just accepting that this thing will kill hundreds of thousands of our citizens every year until there is a treatment and/or vaccine, if we are going to a schedule that splits students into certain days/week in school to socially distance them there will only be half as many students in school at a time to be victims of the school shootings we've also come to accept as a country because, you know, second amendment.
-
Facepalm all you want. Until you seem to get just how absurd the sick pay issue is I'm just going to keep repeating it.
Yep, can only speak for my company, but I have a separate "sick leave" and "COVID leave" balance that started April 1st. Further if I'm forced to self quarantine for two weeks, my duties and responsibilities can be spread around to co-workers, and while it'd make their life more difficult, they'd survive. That becomes exponentially more difficult if your duties and responsibilities include teaching 2 dozen kids that would need to be "spread around". Until a proper solution/plan is presented for this dilemma, I can only see the returning of schools going poorly.
-
Facepalm all you want. Until you seem to get just how absurd the sick pay issue is I'm just going to keep repeating it.
I have no idea what teacher sick pay policy is. I’m sure they can figure something out if that’s the only hurdle for some teachers in returning to the classroom.
-
I have no idea what teacher sick pay policy is. I’m sure they can figure something out if that’s the only hurdle for some teachers in returning to the classroom.
Except that there are more questions than that, that need answering. If a kid tests positive, do you send their entire class home for two weeks and attempt to switch to online? What if that student had contact with kids from other classes in a hallway or other shared space? Do you send the entire school home for two weeks? Are/should teachers be planning to alternate between switching between online and in-class at the drop of a hat?(this has proven to be very difficult based on evidence from last spring) If after a two week isolation the kids come back and three days later another kid tests positive, how many times do you alternate between online and in-class before it becomes obvious that in-class isn't working and just switch to online again full time?
It's easy to say that you're planning on going back, and if these question plus the numerous more that would arise are properly answered then you should, but I have yet to see a proposed plan that has contingencies in place for very plausible/likely scenarios listed above.
-
Except that there are more questions than that, that need answering. If a kid tests positive, do you send their entire class home for two weeks and attempt to switch to online? What if that student had contact with kids from other classes in a hallway or other shared space? Do you send the entire school home for two weeks? Are/should teachers be planning to alternate between switching between online and in-class at the drop of a hat?(this has proven to be very difficult based on evidence from last spring) If after a two week isolation the kids come back and three days later another kid tests positive, how many times do you alternate between online and in-class before it becomes obvious that in-class isn't working and just switch to online again full time?
It's easy to say that you're planning on going back, and if these question plus the numerous more that would arise are properly answered then you should, but I have yet to see a proposed plan that has contingencies in place for very plausible/likely scenarios listed above.
A lot of universities and school districts are telling teachers that they have to deliver all course content both online and in person. Because some (e.g. high-risk, or quarantine) will not be able to attend in person.
Those in charge, recognize that this will soon devolve into online only, if spread isn't mitigated. They just don't want to publicly state right now that all class will be online only as it will create a lot of issues politically, socially, and economically.
-
Except that there are more questions than that, that need answering. If a kid tests positive, do you send their entire class home for two weeks and attempt to switch to online? What if that student had contact with kids from other classes in a hallway or other shared space? Do you send the entire school home for two weeks? Are/should teachers be planning to alternate between switching between online and in-class at the drop of a hat?(this has proven to be very difficult based on evidence from last spring) If after a two week isolation the kids come back and three days later another kid tests positive, how many times do you alternate between online and in-class before it becomes obvious that in-class isn't working and just switch to online again full time?
It's easy to say that you're planning on going back, and if these question plus the numerous more that would arise are properly answered then you should, but I have yet to see a proposed plan that has contingencies in place for very plausible/likely scenarios listed above.
Our district just sent out the plan for all those what if’s just this morning. When I have a minute I can pass along a screen shot of what they have in place.
No doubt kids will get it but they are largely largely asymptomatic so will be interesting to see how much of it goes undetected.
Will be an absolute must for adults to be wearing masks and washing hands like crazy. In their announcement this morning a new additional safety measure based off parent feedback is that kids will no longer be going to cafeteria for lunch but staying in their classroom to eat.
-
A lot of universities and school districts are telling teachers that they have to deliver all course content both online and in person. Because some (e.g. high-risk, or quarantine) will not be able to attend in person.
Those in charge, recognize that this will soon devolve into online only, if spread isn't mitigated. They just don't want to publicly state right now that all class will be online only as it will create a lot of issues politically, socially, and economically.
Different levels also pose different problems. K-5 is usually just one group of 20+ kids that take all classes together, if one gets sick, send the class home. Once you get higher up, kids schedules become more personalized. If you test positive, you would have to send their entire English class home, plus their entire science class, which may be a completely different group of kids, plus their math class, which would be another different group of kids.
Another problem that I have yet to see addressed is in-between classes. I actually think that if you can get everyone to wear a mask and socially distance themselves (easier said than done), once they're in class, they should be all right. The problem comes when you would have 90% of a schools capacity in the hallways together. You could try staggering when you let certain classes out as well as force one way traffic in hallways, but that would very quickly turn into a scheduling nightmare. Imagine not being released from a class until 8:35 say, and having you next class start at 8:20 because of all the staggering (we're not all Hermione).
Question and concerns will keep coming quick and fast, and I just don't see the solutions being able to keep up with them.
-
Different levels also pose different problems. K-5 is usually just one group of 20+ kids that take all classes together, if one gets sick, send the class home. Once you get higher up, kids schedules become more personalized. If you test positive, you would have to send their entire English class home, plus their entire science class, which may be a completely different group of kids, plus their math class, which would be another different group of kids.
Another problem that I have yet to see addressed is in-between classes. I actually think that if you can get everyone to wear a mask and socially distance themselves (easier said than done), once they're in class, they should be all right. The problem comes when you would have 90% of a schools capacity in the hallways together. You could try staggering when you let certain classes out as well as force one way traffic in hallways, but that would very quickly turn into a scheduling nightmare. Imagine not being released from a class until 8:35 say, and having you next class start at 8:20 because of all the staggering (we're not all Hermione).
Question and concerns will keep coming quick and fast, and I just don't see the solutions being able to keep up with them.
Suggestion. Move the teachers around at the bell instead of the students. Might be hard for science labs or art class (if that still exists), but we must adjust. Stagger entry and release from school for the day. Masks required at all times.
Our district just sent out the plan for all those what if’s just this morning. When I have a minute I can pass along a screen shot of what they have in place.
No doubt kids will get it but they are largely largely asymptomatic so will be interesting to see how much of it goes undetected.
Will be an absolute must for adults to be wearing masks and washing hands like crazy. In their announcement this morning a new additional safety measure based off parent feedback is that kids will no longer be going to cafeteria for lunch but staying in their classroom to eat.
That would be super cool. Thanks in advance.
-
Suggestion. Move the teachers around at the bell instead of the students. Might be hard for science labs or art class (if that still exists), but we must adjust. Stagger entry and release from school for the day. Masks required at all times.
That would be super cool. Thanks in advance.
Love the idea of teachings rotating as opposed to the bell going off and the typical between class chaos going down in the hallways.
Seems like an absolute must and will pass that along to our district. Staggered entry/exit also great idea that I haven’t seen our district address. They do say a lot of the safety mitigation plans will be discussed at the parent meetings next week.
-
Suggestion. Move the teachers around at the bell instead of the students. Might be hard for science labs or art class (if that still exists), but we must adjust. Stagger entry and release from school for the day. Masks required at all times.
That would be super cool. Thanks in advance.
Interesting idea, but would raise just as many new problems as it may solve. You note some difficulties, but there's also the fact that not everyone would be taking the same classes. You could be in advanced English but remedial math. What if one kid is taking Spanish and one is taking French? Band or Choir (assuming they still exist). Chemistry or Physics or Biology, the list goes on and on. There would be too many variables that it would still be a scheduling nightmare IMO. Better, but not good enough.
-
Interesting idea, but would raise just as many new problems as it may solve. You note some difficulties, but there's also the fact that not everyone would be taking the same classes. You could be in advanced English but remedial math. What if one kid is taking Spanish and one is taking French? Band or Choir (assuming they still exist). Chemistry or Physics or Biology, the list goes on and on. There would be too many variables that it would still be a scheduling nightmare IMO. Better, but not good enough.
Fair points. This plan could cover K-8 though. High School schedules would definitely be a whole different ball game. Everyone swaps to block scheduling and we boil down what school is for high schoolers. Teacher swapping for the first half or 3/4 of the day doing core classes, and then at lunch (or after 3rd period) the more 'elective' or specialized classes take place. Which may mean high schoolers bug out after lunch and take their specialized classes online. Band and Choir are cancelled for obvious reasons.
Block scheduling is a major way around dealing with this.
-
Interesting idea, but would raise just as many new problems as it may solve. You note some difficulties, but there's also the fact that not everyone would be taking the same classes. You could be in advanced English but remedial math. What if one kid is taking Spanish and one is taking French? Band or Choir (assuming they still exist). Chemistry or Physics or Biology, the list goes on and on. There would be too many variables that it would still be a scheduling nightmare IMO. Better, but not good enough.
For those scenarios where rotating teachers isn’t an option. Mask up baby, no kissy face in the hallways and away you go.
-
Fair points. This plan could cover K-8 though. High School schedules would definitely be a whole different ball game. Everyone swaps to block scheduling and we boil down what school is for high schoolers. Teacher swapping for the first half or 3/4 of the day doing core classes, and then at lunch (or after 3rd period) the more 'elective' or specialized classes take place. Which may mean high schoolers bug out after lunch and take their specialized classes online. Band and Choir are cancelled for obvious reasons.
Block scheduling is a major way around dealing with this.
Agree with this, but also think that it is going to make some people very unhappy. They'll either have to deal with it, or come up with their own solution, because it's really the most realistic path that I see, and I still think that it may not work and everyone could end up back being exclusively online.
-
Fair points. This plan could cover K-8 though. High School schedules would definitely be a whole different ball game. Everyone swaps to block scheduling and we boil down what school is for high schoolers. Teacher swapping for the first half or 3/4 of the day doing core classes, and then at lunch (or after 3rd period) the more 'elective' or specialized classes take place. Which may mean high schoolers bug out after lunch and take their specialized classes online. Band and Choir are cancelled for obvious reasons.
Block scheduling is a major way around dealing with this.
Hards_ do you sit on the school board for our district? They just proposed that very thing of virtual learning in the afternoons for specialized courses with main courses in the morning done face to face and on campus. They’re looking for feedback from parents with kids in high school on the viability of that.
My kids aren’t in high school yet but seemed to make sense to me when reading.
-
Agree with this, but also think that it is going to make some people very unhappy. They'll either have to deal with it, or come up with their own solution, because it's really the most realistic path that I see, and I still think that it may not work and everyone could end up back being exclusively online.
Well knock me over with a feather!! Shocked that you would still look at this with doom and gloom in mind.
-
Agree with this, but also think that it is going to make some people very unhappy. They'll either have to deal with it, or come up with their own solution, because it's really the most realistic path that I see, and I still think that it may not work and everyone could end up back being exclusively online.
I had block in HS from So-Sr year and loved it.
Hards_ do you sit on the school board for our district? They just proposed that very thing of virtual learning in the afternoons for specialized courses with main courses in the morning done face to face and on campus. They’re looking for feedback from parents with kids in high school on the viability of that.
My kids aren’t in high school yet but seemed to make sense to me when reading.
Ha no. My mother was a superintendent for years and has poisoned me against ever teaching or taking school boards seriously. ;D
-
Well knock me over with a feather!! Shocked that you would still look at this with doom and gloom in mind.
Uncalled for. No matter your opinion on the best way to move forward it should be universally accepted that these plans may not work. If that's doom and gloom, so be it. I've just seen way too many "plans" not work in this country regarding COVID to have any significant level of optimism.
-
I had block in HS from So-Sr year and loved it.
Ha no. My mother was a superintendent for years and has poisoned me against ever teaching or taking school boards seriously. ;D
Haha, fait enough!! Well keep the suggestions coming, if the couple you mentioned aren’t brought up next week I’m taking full credit as them being original thought and throwing them out there at the meeting for consideration.
-
Uncalled for. No matter your opinion on the best way to move forward it should be universally accepted that these plans may not work. If that's doom and gloom, so be it. I've just seen way too many "plans" not work in this country regarding COVID to have any significant level of optimism.
You’re right my apologies, was said in jest but shouldn’t have said it.
I just get frustrated when boards like these have an opportunity to be a productive conversation and an opportunity to share ideas of best practices for stuff like this but far more often then not it turns into a dick measuring contest and time wasted of people telling each other why they’re wrong.
The last 10 minutes Hard_ and I have become best buddies and as a result my kids school environment in the fall might be a little safer. That’s a win for everybody if you ask me.
-
Suggestion. Move the teachers around at the bell instead of the students. Might be hard for science labs or art class (if that still exists), but we must adjust. Stagger entry and release from school for the day. Masks required at all times.
For younger kids this is what has been proposed in several states. Kids never leave the classroom (except for bathroom). Lunch, classes, recess, everything done in the same classroom.
Teachers move, and food is delivered in pre-packaged formats.
-
You’re right my apologies, was said in jest but shouldn’t have said it.
I just get frustrated when boards like these have an opportunity to be a productive conversation and an opportunity to share ideas of best practices for stuff like this but far more often then not it turns into a dick measuring contest and time wasted of people telling each other why they’re wrong.
The last 10 minutes Hard_ and I have become best buddies and as a result my kids school environment in the fall might be a little safer. That’s a win for everybody if you ask me.
No worries. Trust me I would love a plan that is properly implemented and allows for safe learning, I just haven't seen enough success at any level really that suggests that it can be accomplished in this country.
-
No worries. Trust me I would love a plan that is properly implemented and allows for safe learning, I just haven't seen enough success at any level really that suggests that it can be accomplished in this country.
True! If there is any level that should be able to rise above the bickering and lack of a coherent plan let’s hope it’s the local level and school districts who all have the communities best interest in mind.
-
The general consensus is that once you determine the number of people/kids/participants in a group, the group has to stay intact and does not mingle with other groups. So classrooms would stay intact for the entire day/week, etc. Youth sports and schools in Wisconsin are doing or planning to do that.
I have a soon to be 3rd grader, junior in high school and a senior in college. All are going to do in school participation if available provided I am comfortable with the safety protocols in place. Unfortunately, I can't curl up in the fetal position until this goes away and frankly I don't think it will for quite a while. In the meantime, I'm comfortable enough with my kids health and COVID stats to date to allow them to go to in person school provided the schools take the necessary basic steps that are being talked about. There is no way that our entire family can be completely isolated. Wife and I have jobs that require us being at work. My side business requires me to be onsite as well. My son who graduated high school is working in a health care setting that exposes him to COVID-19 daily. I try to be cognizant of what I touch and mask up but I am not perfect. Neither is my wife or children. It's all a risk that unfortunately needs to be taken by us unless any of you shmuks want to send money my way. I think $5,000/month would be enough to have this family of 6 stay home for the foreseeable future. PM me if you want to donate money to me or set up a gofundme account. ;D
-
Ah the Onion....
https://politics.theonion.com/self-loathing-gop-congressman-can-t-believe-he-s-been-r-1844340622
"As the nation falls deeper into the grip of a pandemic that has forced compromises upon his most cherished principles, a self-loathing Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) acknowledged Friday he could not believe he had been reduced to defending the necessity of public schools in a civil society."
-
The general consensus is that once you determine the number of people/kids/participants in a group, the group has to stay intact and does not mingle with other groups. So classrooms would stay intact for the entire day/week, etc. Youth sports and schools in Wisconsin are doing or planning to do that.
I have a soon to be 3rd grader, junior in high school and a senior in college. All are going to do in school participation if available provided I am comfortable with the safety protocols in place. Unfortunately, I can't curl up in the fetal position until this goes away and frankly I don't think it will for quite a while. In the meantime, I'm comfortable enough with my kids health and COVID stats to date to allow them to go to in person school provided the schools take the necessary basic steps that are being talked about. There is no way that our entire family can be completely isolated. Wife and I have jobs that require us being at work. My side business requires me to be onsite as well. My son who graduated high school is working in a health care setting that exposes him to COVID-19 daily. I try to be cognizant of what I touch and mask up but I am not perfect. Neither is my wife or children. It's all a risk that unfortunately needs to be taken by us unless any of you shmuks want to send money my way. I think $5,000/month would be enough to have this family of 6 stay home for the foreseeable future. PM me if you want to donate money to me or set up a gofundme account. ;D
Reasonable.
-
Ah the Onion....
https://politics.theonion.com/self-loathing-gop-congressman-can-t-believe-he-s-been-r-1844340622
"As the nation falls deeper into the grip of a pandemic that has forced compromises upon his most cherished principles, a self-loathing Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) acknowledged Friday he could not believe he had been reduced to defending the necessity of public schools in a civil society."
The Onion rarely disappoints.
-
Lunch, classes, recess, everything done in the same classroom.
Teachers move, and food is delivered in pre-packaged formats
This may make the school is prison jokes a little to real.
-
This may make the school is prison jokes a little to real.
It certainly isn't ideal for the kids to be stuck in the same classroom all day. But if that becomes the only way to avoid all distance learning, I suspect most students and parents would get past it.
-
It certainly isn't ideal for the kids to be stuck in the same classroom all day. But if that becomes the only way to avoid all distance learning, I suspect most students and parents would get past it.
100% agree! Not ideal but hopefully it’s only for a few short months....over Xmas break pump everyone full of vaccine and this will all be a bad memory
-
For reference sakes, my 8 year old's school district survey results:
How comfortable are you with sending your child to school in the fall?
Elementary:
Comfortable with minimal to no concerns: 34%
Comfortable with some concerns: 30%
Somewhat: 17%
Not at all: 19%
Middle School
Comfortable with minimal to no concerns: 29%
Comfortable with some concerns: 29%
Somewhat: 22%
Not at all: 20%
High School:
Comfortable with minimal to no concerns: 34%
Comfortable with some concerns: 25%
Somewhat: 16%
Not at all: 25%
Top 3 factors that would make families feel more comfortable:
1. All sanitization supplies, including hand sanitizer, readily available
2. Classrooms and other gathering spaces frequently sanitized
3. Mandatory symptom checks required
Top 3 themes heard from the survey:
1. Availability and cost of childcare if schools are closed
2. Social distancing and other CDC guidelines such as wearing masks and washing hands will not be followed by students, especially younger students
3. Loss of effective education whether with content in a virtual environment or staff spending time to enforce CDC guidelines
-
One other thing.
If your kids are sick in any way, keep them home. I don't care if you think it's just a cold, or they usually have allergies. Just keep them home.
-
100% agree! Not ideal but hopefully it’s only for a few short months....over Xmas break pump everyone full of vaccine and this will all be a bad memory
What color is the sky in your world?
None of those things have a remote chance of happening. Trials aren’t far enough along and even if by some miracle, there is a vaccine that works in short order, there is no way you can produce enough and deliver it to everyone. And that assumes it is created in the US. It comes from anywhere else and the US is at the back of the line to get it.
And by some miracle, it is mass produced, between its effective rate, which at best hope they say 80%, and the fact 40% of Americans say they won’t get it, we won’t have the immunity needed.
But there is that psychic that said it’s going to magically go away in December, so we got that going for us.
-
Thought this was excellent and thought out, but disagree with the conclusion right now.
https://www.vox.com/2020/7/9/21318560/covid-19-coronavirus-us-testing-children-schools-reopening-questions?fbclid=IwAR0KMeLQUi7NP2FwhkPvRdedJircnElgNngm5zwAiZtidX2MfaCp-ENvf2U
-
Posted this in a different thread, but it makes more sense here.
There is a way to open schools and have it be possibly a good thing. It would accomplish much needed testing goals, and mitigate spread.
To do so:
Test all students at all levels every couple days. Any that test positive, you quarantine and screen family/contacts.
This can be accomplished on scale by using pooled sample testing, several large universities are developing this to roll out for their campus reopening testing plans.
Some Universities have modeled this, and found that reopening with universal testing platforms will actually lead to fewer cases amongst students, than if they don't reopen. The worst model, is reopening without a universal testing platform.
-
Thought this was excellent and thought out, but disagree with the conclusion right now.
https://www.vox.com/2020/7/9/21318560/covid-19-coronavirus-us-testing-children-schools-reopening-questions?fbclid=IwAR0KMeLQUi7NP2FwhkPvRdedJircnElgNngm5zwAiZtidX2MfaCp-ENvf2U
Great article, thanks for passing along!! While nothing is guaranteed with this thing the science and data suggests opening back up in the fall is worth the shot.
Having a readily available and flexible plan b will be important as the article states.
-
What color is the sky in your world?
None of those things have a remote chance of happening. Trials aren’t far enough along and even if by some miracle, there is a vaccine that works in short order, there is no way you can produce enough and deliver it to everyone. And that assumes it is created in the US. It comes from anywhere else and the US is at the back of the line to get it.
And by some miracle, it is mass produced, between its effective rate, which at best hope they say 80%, and the fact 40% of Americans say they won’t get it, we won’t have the immunity needed.
But there is that psychic that said it’s going to magically go away in December, so we got that going for us.
Last I heard from Fauci in an interview is they anticipate having 10s of millions of available doses for what he believes will be an effective vaccine by the end of the year.
He’s been wrong on just about everything else so far so this might just get added to the list but 🤞he’s right!!
Also tonight was a beautiful Wisconsin summer sunset and the sky was all sorts of pink, orange and with shades of blue to answer your question.
Enjoyed it while sipping on a lakefront IPA at a beer garden with friends while the kids ran around catching lightning bugs and horsing around on the playground equipment.
It was pretty easy to forget about everything tonight, thankful for that!
-
Thought this was excellent and thought out, but disagree with the conclusion right now.
https://www.vox.com/2020/7/9/21318560/covid-19-coronavirus-us-testing-children-schools-reopening-questions?fbclid=IwAR0KMeLQUi7NP2FwhkPvRdedJircnElgNngm5zwAiZtidX2MfaCp-ENvf2U
Seems to me the author leaves out a lot of important information. The data showing that kids "don't get this" is based on data from the early phase of COVID, where really only those showing up at hospitals were being tested. Kids weren't hospitalized as much.
More recent data shows hot spots of infection driven by:
Day Cares
Day Camps
and people under 30.
A more reasonable rationale based on recent current data from hotspots (including Israeli schools), indicates that the SARS-CoV2 spreads rapidly and efficiently amongst the young, who then with a time delay spread it to older demographics that do not fair as well. We also see long-term lung scarring and damage to organs even in the young and asymptomatic.
The more recent underlying data says that letting this spread through schools/daycares is a terrible idea.
As I note above, reopening schools though can be a vector to mitigate spread. But only in the context of universal testing in schools and rigorous quarantine and contact tracing.
-
Seems to me the author leaves out a lot of important information. The data showing that kids "don't get this" is based on data from the early phase of COVID, where really only those showing up at hospitals were being tested. Kids weren't hospitalized as much.
More recent data shows hot spots of infection driven by:
Day Cares
Day Camps
and people under 30.
A more reasonable rationale based on recent current data from hotspots (including Israeli schools), indicates that the SARS-CoV2 spreads rapidly and efficiently amongst the young, who then with a time delay spread it to older demographics that do not fair as well. We also see long-term lung scarring and damage to organs even in the young and asymptomatic.
The more recent underlying data says that letting this spread through schools/daycares is a terrible idea.
As I note above, reopening schools though can be a vector to mitigate spread. But only in the context of universal testing in schools and rigorous quarantine and contact tracing.
Do you see research for this? I've seen the anecdotal evidence in a daycare in Oregon and a summer camp in Kansas?, but nothing beyond that. Here's an article dated June 16 on some of the children data: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0962-9
-
Last I heard from Fauci in an interview is they anticipate having 10s of millions of available doses for what he believes will be an effective vaccine by the end of the year.
He’s been wrong on just about everything else so far so this might just get added to the list but 🤞he’s right!!
Also tonight was a beautiful Wisconsin summer sunset and the sky was all sorts of pink, orange and with shades of blue to answer your question.
Enjoyed it while sipping on a lakefront IPA at a beer garden with friends while the kids ran around catching lightning bugs and horsing around on the playground equipment.
It was pretty easy to forget about everything tonight, thankful for that!
I don't understand the notion that Fauci has "been wrong on just about everything." He was wrong early on the masking issue when the nature of transmission wasn't as well known as it is now, but he has actually been pretty darn accurate about the consequences if we don't handle this right.
He certainly has been WAY more accurate than the President has.
-
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks
Insightful article.
It shows that schools can work with small groups, distancing and masking. And that small children don't contribute to spread as much as older children.
BUT, this is the kicker:
"But opening safely, experts agree, isn’t just about the adjustments a school makes. It’s also about how much virus is circulating in the community, which affects the likelihood that students and staff will bring COVID-19 into their classrooms."
IOW, it doesn't matter how much work schools do, if it is spreading in the community, someone will bring it into the school.
-
I don't understand the notion that Fauci has "been wrong on just about everything." He was wrong early on the masking issue when the nature of transmission wasn't as well known as it is now, but he has actually been pretty darn accurate about the consequences if we don't handle this right.
He certainly has been WAY more accurate than the President has.
Even before the mask thing in late January he was quoted in an interviewing saying there is no reason to believe this version of coronavirus poses a serious risk to Americans.
Yes the President has been wrong as well. Not sure why Trump gets looped back into absolutely everything but yes he too can be a moron.
-
Even before the mask thing in late January he was quoted in an interviewing saying there is no reason to believe this version of coronavirus poses a serious risk to Americans.
Yes the President has been wrong as well. Not sure why Trump gets looped back into absolutely everything but yes he too can be a moron.
I mean...that was late January when much wasn't really known.
This idea that people who have been wrong can never be right is really odd.
-
Do you see research for this? I've seen the anecdotal evidence in a daycare in Oregon and a summer camp in Kansas?, but nothing beyond that. Here's an article dated June 16 on some of the children data: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0962-9
I can see if there is any published data on this. Some of my contacts are epidemiologists doing modeling for governments in some of the hard hit areas, so some of my info comes from them. Here is one of the public stories:
https://www.kvue.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-austin-texas-child-care-day-care-cases-update/269-49ec5dcf-d3d2-4c36-811a-59b1c1c2837b
States are restricting release of information related to these issues. They will provide it to "approved researchers" or reporters if asked, but otherwise keep it internal.
-
I mean...that was late January when much wasn't really known.
This idea that people who have been wrong can never be right is really odd.
I never said he could never be right. In fact said I hope he is right in regards to vaccine.
But you have to admit he was wrong on the big stuff early, really wrong. Trump new enough in late January to start restricting travel from China.
-
Even before the mask thing in late January he was quoted in an interviewing saying there is no reason to believe this version of coronavirus poses a serious risk to Americans.
This is misleading at best. In late January (and I believe even later), he was stating "at that moment" people in America do not need to be worried. That was based on the best data at the time that suggested that this could still be contained, and hence did not warrant a "current fear by the lay public". He cautioned that the conditions could change.
If you go through the main COVID thread, I was also cautiously optimistic early. Like Fauci, I recognized the potential for major risk, but also that the data suggested it could still be contained and suggested it wasn't that widespread in the US...yet.
Where I was wrong, was in believing that there was no way in the world, that we could be so insanely inept at testing and tracking, and fail on every level in recognizing and mitigating spread. The fact that we are still failing here is mind boggling. That became clear in mid February-ish. My cautiously optimistic outlook was gone, and I recognized we were in for a major ordeal that would cost 300-500k lives in the year.
Now, here is where leadership matters. Science, (Fauci, I and others), focus on data. We will report the current facts that are publicly authorized (e.g. cautiously optimistic, current data). But to leadership we will present all the flaws in current data, what needs to be done to control different possible scenarios (e.g. tracking and tracing/quarantines), and what the situation will look like if measures are not enacted. What aspects of that data can be released, and that is enacted upon, is dependent on the leadership. Here, leadership failed in every way imaginable.
-
I never said he could never be right. In fact said I hope he is right in regards to vaccine.
But you have to admit he was wrong on the big stuff early, really wrong. Trump new enough in late January to start restricting travel from China.
LOL...OK.
If you want to ignore how accurate he has been the last few months, that's fine. And if you want to trumpet the one thing Trump has done well, that's fine too. My puppy like to carry around a toy for comfort as well. It's cute.
But remember, for the last few months, Fauci has been pretty much spot on about what would happen if you open without precautions.
He has also said we need to do whatever we can to get students back in school, but we have to take precautions for that to happen. He's not wrong and we all want it to happen.
-
Trump new enough in late January to start restricting travel from China.
LOL. The one and only proactive thing he has done throughout the entire COVID epidemic and even that was half-assed.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-07-04/trumps-strong-wall-to-block-covid-19-from-china-had-holes
"Exempted were thousands of residents of the Chinese territories of Hong Kong and Macao. An analysis of Commerce Department travel entry records and private aviation data obtained by the Associated Press show that nearly 8,000 Chinese nationals and foreign residents of the territories entered the U.S. on more than 600 commercial and private flights in the first three months after the ban was imposed.
When U.S. residents flying from mainland China arrived at U.S. airports, the system meant to flag and monitor them for the development of symptoms lost track of at least 1,600 people in just the first few days the ban went into effect, according to an internal state government email obtained by the AP."
That was the best he could do during the entire pandemic. He has run the U.S. response with the same acumen that he ran his casinos, airline, football team, university, and "charity". Wait, that's not fair: he ran his charity very effectively for what it's actual purpose was, grifting money from the generosity of others.
-
This is misleading at best. In late January (and I believe even later), he was stating "at that moment" people in America do not need to be worried. That was based on the best data at the time that suggested that this could still be contained, and hence did not warrant a "current fear by the lay public". He cautioned that the conditions could change.
If you go through the main COVID thread, I was also cautiously optimistic early. Like Fauci, I recognized the potential for major risk, but also that the data suggested it could still be contained and suggested it wasn't that widespread in the US...yet.
Where I was wrong, was in believing that there was no way in the world, that we could be so insanely inept at testing and tracking, and fail on every level in recognizing and mitigating spread. The fact that we are still failing here is mind boggling. That became clear in mid February-ish. My cautiously optimistic outlook was gone, and I recognized we were in for a major ordeal that would cost 300-500k lives in the year.
Now, here is where leadership matters. Science, (Fauci, I and others), focus on data. We will report the current facts that are publicly authorized (e.g. cautiously optimistic, current data). But to leadership we will present all the flaws in current data, what needs to be done to control different possible scenarios (e.g. tracking and tracing/quarantines), and what the situation will look like if measures are not enacted. What aspects of that data can be released, and that is enacted upon, is dependent on the leadership. Here, leadership failed in every way imaginable.
Agreed.
Everybody makes mistakes sometimes. But rational, intelligent people make them based on existing knowledge and reasonable assumptions. Back in January/February, it was reasonable to assume that CDC knew what it was doing and that the US would be a leader in preventing this kind of spread...because CDC has a long history of being at the forefront in disease control and prevention. I personally made that "trust CDC" mistake earlier in this thread.
But rational, intelligent people also learn as new data points come in - about the virus itself and the illness it causes, the failures of leadership at most every turn, and the muzzling of the CDC by an administration that believed in magic. With all that new data, rational, intelligent people like Fauci have changed their opinions dramatically...and with good reason.
-
This is misleading at best. In late January (and I believe even later), he was stating "at that moment" people in America do not need to be worried. That was based on the best data at the time that suggested that this could still be contained, and hence did not warrant a "current fear by the lay public". He cautioned that the conditions could change.
If you go through the main COVID thread, I was also cautiously optimistic early. Like Fauci, I recognized the potential for major risk, but also that the data suggested it could still be contained and suggested it wasn't that widespread in the US...yet.
Where I was wrong, was in believing that there was no way in the world, that we could be so insanely inept at testing and tracking, and fail on every level in recognizing and mitigating spread. The fact that we are still failing here is mind boggling. That became clear in mid February-ish. My cautiously optimistic outlook was gone, and I recognized we were in for a major ordeal that would cost 300-500k lives in the year.
Now, here is where leadership matters. Science, (Fauci, I and others), focus on data. We will report the current facts that are publicly authorized (e.g. cautiously optimistic, current data). But to leadership we will present all the flaws in current data, what needs to be done to control different possible scenarios (e.g. tracking and tracing/quarantines), and what the situation will look like if measures are not enacted. What aspects of that data can be released, and that is enacted upon, is dependent on the leadership. Here, leadership failed in every way imaginable.
I’m paraphrasing here but straight shooter Fauci said numerous times over the last 5 months that Trump has done everything the task force has asked him to do.
Not one recommendation from the task force was crap down. When you say leadership who are you specifically referring to?
-
LOL...OK.
If you want to ignore how accurate he has been the last few months, that's fine. And if you want to trumpet the one thing Trump has done well, that's fine too. My puppy like to carry around a toy for comfort as well. It's cute.
But remember, for the last few months, Fauci has been pretty much spot on about what would happen if you open without precautions.
He has also said we need to do whatever we can to get students back in school, but we have to take precautions for that to happen. He's not wrong and we all want it to happen.
Find me a state that didn’t open with precautions and safety measures in place. If citizens and communities don’t follow those recommendations there really isn’t anyone to blame but ourselves.
-
LOL...OK.
If you want to ignore how accurate he has been the last few months, that's fine. And if you want to trumpet the one thing Trump has done well, that's fine too. My puppy like to carry around a toy for comfort as well. It's cute.
But remember, for the last few months, Fauci has been pretty much spot on about what would happen if you open without precautions.
He has also said we need to do whatever we can to get students back in school, but we have to take precautions for that to happen. He's not wrong and we all want it to happen.
Also, you or I could have looked at the data and predicted what would happen if states didn’t take x, y, or z precautions.
I would hope the leading infectious disease mind in America could provide a little more value then, after being wrong initially And as a result seeing this virus spread like wildfire to the. Turn around and tell us to wash our hands, keep our distance, and wear a mask.
Pretty common sense stuff.
-
Find me a state that didn’t open with precautions and safety measures in place. If citizens and communities don’t follow those recommendations there really isn’t anyone to blame but ourselves.
Lol. Kind of like when Trump laid out the reopening guidelines and within 24 hours was Tweeting to “liberate” states as protests went on in them. Great leadership and messaging. Trump really helping the cause to cautiously, safely, and responsibly reopen, no doubt about it. The states and cities are at fault. Trump has knocked this out of the park. It’s not his fault we as a country are a laughingstock when it comes to handling the coronavirus, it’s the state and local governments! If trump just had more power we’d have been down to 0 cases by April, the virus would’ve disappeared when it got hot out, and our country would’ve been reopened by Easter!
-
Also, you or I could have looked at the data and predicted what would happen if states didn’t take x, y, or z precautions.
I would hope the leading infectious disease mind in America could provide a little more value then, after being wrong initially And as a result seeing this virus spread like wildfire to the. Turn around and tell us to wash our hands, keep our distance, and wear a mask.
Pretty common sense stuff.
Well, if MUScoop can figure this out but our president cannot (and leave no mistake, he certainly has not), that’s a major issue.
-
Lol. Kind of like when Trump laid out the reopening guidelines and within 24 hours was Tweeting to “liberate” states as protests went on in them. Great leadership and messaging. Trump really helping the cause to cautiously, safely, and responsibly reopen, no doubt about it. The states and cities are at fault. Trump has knocked this out of the park. It’s not his fault we as a country are a laughingstock when it comes to handling the coronavirus, it’s the state and local governments! If trump just had more power we’d have been down to 0 cases by April, the virus would’ve disappeared when it got hot out, and our country would’ve been reopened by Easter!
Agree those tweets were dumb. But as previously discussed they led to zero policy change and the cake was already baked in how the public was handling the shut down in pockets of the country.
I believe the tweets were in response to protests already on there way that opposed the continued lockdowns
-
I’m paraphrasing here but straight shooter Fauci said numerous times over the last 5 months that Trump has done everything the task force has asked him to do.
Not one recommendation from the task force was crap down. When you say leadership who are you specifically referring to?
The biggest issues have been minimizing it from the beginning, and encouraging states to open up too early and too fast. And his actions over the last few weeks have just been bizarre. Holding indoor rallies in hotspots. Basically saying nothing to acknowledge what is occurring in Florida, Arizona and California. Prioritizing the economy over health. Threatening to withold funding from schools that don't open to in-person instruction. Threatening the non-profit status of colleges and universitiies.
It's very clear that he simply wants the United States to press on with business as usual. He wants normalcy and the Trump economy that comes with that. Because he wants to be reelected.
I mean, it's pretty obvious.
The ironic thing, and I have said this 100 times, is that if he had the discipline to stay the course, invest more in testing and tracing, and provided constant messages of leadership, compassion and comfort, we would be in a much better place to return to normal than we currently.are. Frankly he would be viewed as a leader and would likely sail to reelection. For example, Angela Merkel was in trouble in Germany before this came along. Now her approval ratings are through the roof. Leadership during national emergencies is what we ask of our leaders, and when they come through, they are rewarded for that.
But he has no discipline, and compassion and comfort isn't his thing. And this is where we are. No national policy. Growing cases, growing hospitalizations and likely a growing death toll.
A complete and utter failure.
-
Agree those tweets were dumb. But as previously discussed they led to zero policy change and the cake was already baked in how the public was handling the shut down in pockets of the country.
I believe the tweets were in response to protests already on there way that opposed the continued lockdowns
I mean, if you don't understand how those tweets fed the fire of opening up early and fast, I don't know what to tell you.
-
Well, if MUScoop can figure this out but our president cannot (and leave no mistake, he certainly has not), that’s a major issue.
If you expected Trump to figure this out you were setting yourself up for disappointment.
Everyone said listen to the experts, do what the task force says. From all accounts he did.
He stepped on his own dick a couple times with some of the messaging on twitter but as far as policy and guidelines he did what the task force wanted.
And as a result they arguably saved over a million lives from initial estimates.
-
I mean, if you don't understand how those tweets fed the fire of opening up early and fast, I don't know what to tell you.
I agree it didn’t help and definitely fueled the fire.
-
I agree it didn’t help and definitely fueled the fire.
His followers still refuse to wear masks, refuse to believe this epidemic is a real problem.
They help a huge party here to celebrate his birthday and now we are one of the fastest growing virus areas in the nation.
-
I mean, if you don't understand how those tweets fed the fire of opening up early and fast, I don't know what to tell you.
I saw one person that thought you could safely open schools with nothing more than masking up at change of classes and “ no kissy face in the hallways and away you go.”
Who knew it was so simple?
-
IOW, it doesn't matter how much work schools do, if it is spreading in the community, someone will bring it into the school.
This has been the only important thing for any 'outcome' since the start of this year. Step 1 contain...otherwise we dont get to do the things in step two for any sustainable amount of time.
-
If you expected Trump to figure this out you were setting yourself up for disappointment.
Everyone said listen to the experts, do what the task force says. From all accounts he did.
He stepped on his own dick a couple times with some of the messaging on twitter but as far as policy and guidelines he did what the task force wanted.
And as a result they arguably saved over a million lives from initial estimates.
He steps on his dick every day that he doesn't tell people to wear masks, and wear one himself while in public. He pays for this with votes every day.
-
Everyone said listen to the experts, do what the task force says. From all accounts he did.
You are simply lying.
-
Everyone said listen to the experts, do what the task force says. From all accounts he did.
In the main thread I said, "You are smarter than this" when I thought you were simply being disingenuous about something. But if this is what you believe, I guess I was wrong.
-
As Trump Demanded Schools Reopen, His Experts Warned of ‘Highest Risk’
Federal materials for reopening schools, shared the week President Trump demanded weaker guidelines to do so, said fully reopening schools and universities remained the “highest risk” for the spread of the coronavirus.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/10/us/politics/trump-schools-reopening.html
And the document, complete with typo on the date.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/7072-school-reopening-packet/b70172f2cc13c9cf0e6a/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
-
Not possible. Trump "listens to the experts." Or so I've been told.
-
Not possible. Trump "listens to the experts." Or so I've been told.
That’s right, Fauci told you, me, and anyone willing to listen on probably 5 different occasions he did everything they asked him to do.
But if you don’t believe Fauci you wouldn’t be the first person so I understand the skepticism.
-
He steps on his dick every day that he doesn't tell people to wear masks, and wear one himself while in public. He pays for this with votes every day.
Well Don wore one today in public so can we stop with this annoying talking point now. Cause no one who hasn’t been wearing one will now all of a sudden wear one starting tomorrow.
-
That’s right, Fauci told you, me, and anyone willing to listen on probably 5 different occasions he did everything they asked him to do.
But if you don’t believe Fauci you wouldn’t be the first person so I understand the skepticism.
Which expert told him to throw away the pandemic plan book that Obama left him?
Which expert told him to disband pandemic team within the security council?
Which expert told him 15 cases would go to zero?
Which expert told him COVID was the Democrats new hoax?
Which expert told him the flu was much worse than coronavirus?
Which expert told him tout an unproven drug as a game changer?*
Which expert told him there was plenty of PPE to go around?
Which expert told him anyone who wants a test can get one?
Which expert told him it was Obama's fault for not leaving him tests...for a virus that hadn't been discovered yet?
Which expert told him it would just go away, like a miracle?
Which expert told him Jared Kushner had the expertise to be put in charge of the response?
Which expert told him he could override Governors' stay at home orders because his "authority is total"?
Which expert told him to contradict the reopening guidelines one day after issuing them?
Which expert told him it would be a good idea to pressure states to reopen whether they met the guidelines or not?
Which expert told him to encourage his armed supporters to "LIBERATE" states to get them to reopen?
Which expert told him Ebola, which killed two people in the U.S., was handled much worse than COVID-19?
Which expert told him injecting disinfectants internally would be a good idea to try?
Which expert told him to say "we have prevailed" over the virus...when the death toll hit 80,000?
Which expert told him to continually push for states to reopen even as the number of cases continued to rise?
Which expert told him to hold an indoor rally in a hotspot?
*Actually we know that one; it was Doctors Hannity and Ingraham, noted public health and infectious disease experts.
-
My wife and I made the decision over the weekend that we are going to home school our three kids this year. It wasn't an easy decision, we talked it through at length, we talked to our kids to get their input and wanted them to be part of the process.
Some context to this, my job has been out of my home for the last seven years. My work has said don't expect to travel through end of Q1 2021. My wife has her degree in teaching (she is a counselor currently and teaches part time at a community college). All that said, her and I still have to do our regular jobs, and structure time with our kids to home school them. This will not be easy.
The flip side is we don't think Covid is just going to go away magically. If there was some type of hybrid in school learning and e-learning, and then Covid hit our school, it'd be a see-saw. My kids and my wife wanted more structure this year. We can't control Covid, but we feel like we'll have control of their education. Also, my oldest son is high risk, and we've been trying hard to minimize his risk since this all started.
None of this is going to be easy, ultimately it came down to us trying to maintain control where we can.
-
Dish, I commend you for your thoughtful decision. This is putting a lot of people in a very tough spot.
-
My wife and I made the decision over the weekend that we are going to home school our three kids this year. It wasn't an easy decision, we talked it through at length, we talked to our kids to get their input and wanted them to be part of the process.
Some context to this, my job has been out of my home for the last seven years. My work has said don't expect to travel through end of Q1 2021. My wife has her degree in teaching (she is a counselor currently and teaches part time at a community college). All that said, her and I still have to do our regular jobs, and structure time with our kids to home school them. This will not be easy.
The flip side is we don't think Covid is just going to go away magically. If there was some type of hybrid in school learning and e-learning, and then Covid hit our school, it'd be a see-saw. My kids and my wife wanted more structure this year. We can't control Covid, but we feel like we'll have control of their education. Also, my oldest son is high risk, and we've been trying hard to minimize his risk since this all started.
None of this is going to be easy, ultimately it came down to us trying to maintain control where we can.
Just curious, would the school allow you back mid-year if they went virtual again? Wondering how schools are handling those that don’t want in person, but would still join for online.
-
The CDC's guidance on schools is common sense. Schools that are trying to open have a seemingly impossible task in front of them.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/7072-school-reopening-packet/b70172f2cc13c9cf0e6a/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
Guiding Principles to in Mind
The more an individual interacts with others, and the longer that interaction, the higher the risk of COVID -19 spread. The risk of COVID -19 spread increases as follows:
General Settings
* Lowest Risk: Faculty and students engage in virtual-only learning options, activities, and events.
* More Risk: Small in-person classes, activities, and events. Individuals remain spaced at least 6 feet apart and do not share objects ( e.g., hybrid virtual and in-person class structures or staggered/rotated scheduling to accommodate smaller class sizes).
* Highest Risk: Full-sized in-person classes, activities, and events. Students are not spaced apart, share classroom materials or supplies, and mix between classes and activities.
-
The CDC's guidance on schools is common sense. Schools that are trying to open have a seemingly impossible task in front of them.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/7072-school-reopening-packet/b70172f2cc13c9cf0e6a/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
Guiding Principles to in Mind
The more an individual interacts with others, and the longer that interaction, the higher the risk of COVID -19 spread. The risk of COVID -19 spread increases as follows:
General Settings
* Lowest Risk: Faculty and students engage in virtual-only learning options, activities, and events.
* More Risk: Small in-person classes, activities, and events. Individuals remain spaced at least 6 feet apart and do not share objects ( e.g., hybrid virtual and in-person class structures or staggered/rotated scheduling to accommodate smaller class sizes).
* Highest Risk: Full-sized in-person classes, activities, and events. Students are not spaced apart, share classroom materials or supplies, and mix between classes and activities.
Trump attacks his own CDC scientists over how to reopen schools safely
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/07/09/trump-attacks-cdc-scientists-over-covid-19-school-reopening-guidelines/5405407002/
-
Trump attacks his own CDC scientists over how to reopen schools safely
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/07/09/trump-attacks-cdc-scientists-over-covid-19-school-reopening-guidelines/5405407002/
Oh man, who do we believe? Career public health professionals, or politicians? Whatever shall I do?
-
Just curious, would the school allow you back mid-year if they went virtual again? Wondering how schools are handling those that don’t want in person, but would still join for online.
Our school district has yet to finalize or announce what their plan is for the year, so it's a good question, and I'm not sure. We're committing to go the full school year with our kids being home schooled. For next school year, hopefully all is well and they will be back in school.
One big thing that sucks is this was going to be the last year that all three of my kids attended the same school at the same time (I have twins going into fifth, youngest going into first).
-
Oh man, who do we believe? Career public health professionals, or politicians? Whatever shall I do?
Obviously the media is lying. I was informed on this very site that Trump follows his experts' advice.
-
Oh man, who do we believe? Career public health professionals, or politicians? Whatever shall I do?
I had been trusting in the CDC, but now that Chuck Woolery has weighed in, I'm starting to have my doubts.
-
I had been trusting in the CDC, but now that Chuck Woolery has weighed in, I'm starting to have my doubts.
I'm holding out until Wink Martindale weighs in.
-
The dominoes begin to fall....
Citing surging cases, the Los Angeles and San Diego school districts will be remote-only in the fall.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-72346533
--------------------
Dish - you and your wife made a difficult decision, but I think it's the right one.
-
I had been trusting in the CDC, but now that Chuck Woolery has weighed in, I'm starting to have my doubts.
Woolery has always been a nut. I love this line in on his Wikipedia page: "For reasons known only known to Woolery, his face now looks like an old catchers mitt."
A better line: "Woolery is a Christian who volunteers in ministry. Woolery has been married four times, and has at least five children." Guess that oath before God wasn't a big deal to him.
He also tweeted:
"Killers in Dayton and El Paso are both connected to the insane Democrats."
"Nutty Nancy Pelosi Defends Sex Pervert John Conyers."
"I have been reluctant to say this, but I think we have a Muslim problem in the White House."
"Iv'e had about all I can take from this Peaceful Religion, that is not a religion at all, Muslims are on the March, Coming to a town near U."
-
To get back on topic...
MPS released its plan tonight. Not surprising, they accepted the immediate realities and kicked the can down the road just a little bit to be virtual the first month. When they resume (roughly October), they will be 2 on and 3 virtual.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2020/07/13/mps-reopening-plan-virtual-learning-and-gradual-return-classroom/5427236002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2020/07/13/mps-reopening-plan-virtual-learning-and-gradual-return-classroom/5427236002/)
-
I'm beginning to think things might go well! I mean, if everyone takes this seriously, helps their children understand the importance of masks, I mean why *wouldn't* it....errr...uh...
https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2020/07/15/packed-meeting-utah/
<sob>
-
Lest we think it's only the rural conservatives who don't like science.
While school districts across California are choosing remote learning to start the school year, the Orange County Board of Education is going a different route. On Monday night, the conservative-leaning board voted on its own guidelines for schools: a return to the old ways, before the coronavirus pandemic.
https://www.ocregister.com/2020/07/13/oc-board-of-education-votes-to-support-return-to-school-without-social-distancing-masks/
-
Lest we think it's only the rural conservatives who don't like science.
While school districts across California are choosing remote learning to start the school year, the Orange County Board of Education is going a different route. On Monday night, the conservative-leaning board voted on its own guidelines for schools: a return to the old ways, before the coronavirus pandemic.
https://www.ocregister.com/2020/07/13/oc-board-of-education-votes-to-support-return-to-school-without-social-distancing-masks/
Orange County is kook town. It's also home to one of the largest anti-vaxx populations in the US. At some point there will be horrible outbreaks of preventable diseases there.
-
Re school openings:
"The science should not stand in the way of this.”
https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1283842082646433792
But hey, I was told here that trump "listens to the experts".
-
Re school openings:
"The science should not stand in the way of this.”
https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1283842082646433792
But hey, I was told here that trump "listens to the experts".
They never said what kind of experts.
-
They never said what kind of experts.
True, I hadn't considered that he might have been referring to "ex-gameshow host experts" like Chuck Woolery.
-
True, I hadn't considered that he might have been referring to "ex-gameshow host experts" like Chuck Woolery.
The same Chuck Woolery who deleted his Twitter account after finding out the Covid19 is real because his son caught it?
-
Orange County is kook town. It's also home to one of the largest anti-vaxx populations in the US. At some point there will be horrible outbreaks of preventable diseases there.
I had friends that moved there cause they loved SoCal but didn’t want to be in LA. They left about a year ago and moved to SD where he’s from cause they wanted to start a family and didn’t have any desire to raise their kids in OC. He got into real estate and saw more than enough to make up his mind.
-
The largest school district in NC, which also happens to be where I live and coach, decided yesterday to do only remote education for the fall semester.
I was hoping we'd be far enough along to do at least some kind of hybrid system, but sadly our statistics have gone the wrong way ever since our economy was opened up some almost 2 months ago.
I have no idea what this means for our basketball season, and I understand that's a minor concern right now.
-
The largest school district in NC, which also happens to be where I live and coach, decided yesterday to do only remote education for the fall semester.
I was hoping we'd be far enough along to do at least some kind of hybrid system, but sadly our statistics have gone the wrong way ever since our economy was opened up some almost 2 months ago.
I have no idea what this means for our basketball season, and I understand that's a minor concern right now.
Unfortunate about the numbers, but good of the school district to be proactive. I have a feeling many more will be following very soon.
It’s a terrible thing for the kids, but the right thing for the country.
-
True, I hadn't considered that he might have been referring to "ex-gameshow host experts" like Chuck Woolery.
I am so old, I remember when Chuck Woolery was the host of "Wheel of Fortune".
Then he was replaced by the guy who was the weekend weatherman at my hometown TV station.
-
Madison virtual 1st quarter...
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/local_schools/madison-school-district-to-start-school-year-fully-online/article_508d2e97-861b-5a77-9c1d-f93cfd9d9562.html#tracking-source=home-breaking
We got a survey on Monday about different options about going back, that was due on 7/27...
-
Unfortunate about the numbers, but good of the school district to be proactive. I have a feeling many more will be following very soon.
It’s a terrible thing for the kids, but the right thing for the country.
Yep. The governor, recognizing that the effect of COVID-19 has been different in different parts of the state, gave districts the option of going all-virtual or using a hybrid of in-person and virtual. Some districts are choosing the latter, but most of the larger ones, where COVID-19 has been devastating, are going with the former.
Just yesterday, NC hit our high for COVID-19 hospitalizations, continuing a trend that has gone on for about a month now. Truly sucky!
-
Lately I've been seeing a lot of arguments from parents regarding online only classes saying, they want to see all there school taxes reimbursed then...the responses from people that don't have children have been interesting to say the least.
You'd think that would shut some people up...nope.
-
Lately I've been seeing a lot of arguments from parents regarding online only classes saying, they want to see all there school taxes reimbursed then...the responses from people that don't have children have been interesting to say the least.
You'd think that would shut some people up...nope.
Yeah, it's as though people have no clue how taxes work, as opposed to fees for specific services.
And it isn't as though schools' costs are going down. Quite the contrary - teachers and staff are going to be working harder than ever navigating these challenging times.
-
American College of Pediatrics recommends sending children back to in classroom instruction this school year. I know y'all want to believe the science and medical personnel, so everyone supports their position, aina?
-
City of Milwaukee updated its phases and current phase (4) no longer includes in person classes. As of now, no school or university can have in person instruction. MJS just uncovered this.
Milwaukee schools and universities that have been planning to resume at least some face-to-face classes this fall may need to shift gears, after the city Health Department quietly changed the guidelines for when in-person instruction may resume.
Jim Bender, president of School Choice Wisconsin, said many of the private and independent charter schools in the city had been working on the assumption that they could offer in-person instruction with precautions during the current phase of the city's reopening plan, based on a document posted on the health department's website.
Earlier plans for the city's reopening process showed that schools could reopen during Phase 4, the city's current stage. But that document appears to have been updated on June 25. The latest version bars schools and universities from opening until Phase 5.
"Nobody saw this coming," said Bender. "Schools did not have any sort of consultative role in these changes. And they didn't get any communication from the health department that the changes were being made."
The Phase 4 order, which the health department issued June 26, clearly states that all schools and universities are closed for in-person instruction until further notice.
But neither the order, nor the news release announcing it, mentioned that the criteria for their reopening had changed.
Health Department Spokeswoman Shawn Benjamin did not answer Journal Sentinel questions about why the timeline for schools and universities to reopen had changed. She said the "gating criteria" for moving from one phase to the next "are updated to reflect activities that are permitted" and are "determined by level of risk using the latest research and feedback from public health professionals."
Members of the Higher Education Regional Alliance, which includes 18 southeastern Wisconsin universities and colleges, did appear to be aware prior to Friday.
The group sent a letter to Mayor Tom Barrett on Tuesday asking for the chance to work with the city on language for the order that allows them to reopen.
They asked that the city change the order to allow them to “determine policies and practices for safe operations,” provided they do not open dorms without strict policies and safety measures to reduce the spread of COVID-19, they maintain social distancing to the greatest extent possible, and require face masks with some exceptions determined by the colleges.
Bender said the choice schools only discovered the change after MPS announced this week that it planned to start the school year online-only and ramp up to in-person instruction if and when the coronavirus threat subsided.
MPS did not mention in any of its documents or discussions that the city health department was actually barring in person instruction in the current phase.
More:What parents need to know about Milwaukee Public Schools' reopening plan for the 2020-21 school year
Bender is questioning why the health department made the change and speculated that it was to help MPS so it did not lose students to competing charter and voucher schools if it did not fully reopen.
"It makes me think the model got changed for something other than health reason," he said.
This story will be updated.
Contact Annysa Johnson at anjohnson@jrn.com or 414-224-2061. Follow her on Twitter at @JSEdbeat. And join the Journal Sentinel conversation about education issues at www.facebook.com/groups/WisconsinEducation.
-
American College of Pediatrics recommends sending children back to in classroom instruction this school year. I know y'all want to believe the science and medical personnel, so everyone supports their position, aina?
No. Here’s their description on Wikipedia.
“ The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States.[1] The group was founded in 2002. In 2005, it reportedly had between 150 and 200 members and one employee; in 2016 it reportedly had 500 physician members.[2][3] The group's primary focus is advocating against abortion and the adoption of children by gay or lesbian people. It also advocates conversion therapy.”
Any organization that believes in gay conversion therapy doesn’t believe in science to begin with.
-
American College of Pediatrics recommends sending children back to in classroom instruction this school year. I know y'all want to believe the science and medical personnel, so everyone supports their position, aina?
...dude...
No. Here’s their description on Wikipedia.
“ The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States.[1] The group was founded in 2002. In 2005, it reportedly had between 150 and 200 members and one employee; in 2016 it reportedly had 500 physician members.[2][3] The group's primary focus is advocating against abortion and the adoption of children by gay or lesbian people. It also advocates conversion therapy.”
Any organization that believes in gay conversion therapy doesn’t believe in science to begin with.
...This... take away the political thing, the abortion thing. And you're still left with a messed up group of people
-
American College of Pediatrics recommends sending children back to in classroom instruction this school year. I know y'all want to believe the science and medical personnel, so everyone supports their position, aina?
This is a tiny (500 members) conservative spinoff of the American Academy of Pediatrics. It was created in opposition to the latter, legitimate and larger (65,000 member) group's support for LGBT rights.
It opposes same-sex marriage, wants sex ed to focus exclusively on abstinence and believes LGBTQ advocates are pedophiles.
Super-sciency, indeed.
So, what does the American Academy of Pediatrics have to say?
-
American College of Pediatrics recommends sending children back to in classroom instruction this school year. I know y'all want to believe the science and medical personnel, so everyone supports their position, aina?
Care to share any additional thoughts on your Islamophobic post from last week?
-
American College of Pediatrics recommends sending children back to in classroom instruction this school year. I know y'all want to believe the science and medical personnel, so everyone supports their position, aina?
This is (now) false. The AAP walked back/clarified their recommendations.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/07/pediatricians-walk-back-school-reopening-stance-as-who-gives-dire-warning/
They called for data driven openings based on science and derided political input into the school openings. They also replied to Trump's concept of withholding federal funds for schools as "misguided."
So .. yeah, I think we all agree with most of the AAP's full statements.
-
This is (now) false. The AAP walked back/clarified their recommendations.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/07/pediatricians-walk-back-school-reopening-stance-as-who-gives-dire-warning/
They called for data driven openings based on science and derided political input into the school openings. They also replied to Trump's concept of withholding federal funds for schools as "misguided."
So .. yeah, I think we all agree with most of the AAP's full statements.
You're conflating the AAP with the ACP, maybe on purpose?
-
White House blocks CDC from testifying on reopening schools next week
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/white-house-cdc-house-testimony-schools/index.html
The White House is blocking US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield and other officials from the agency from testifying before a House Education and Labor Committee hearing on reopening schools next week, just as the debate over sending children back to classrooms has flared up across the US.
-
White House blocks CDC from testifying on reopening schools next week
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/white-house-cdc-house-testimony-schools/index.html
The White House is blocking US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield and other officials from the agency from testifying before a House Education and Labor Committee hearing on reopening schools next week, just as the debate over sending children back to classrooms has flared up across the US.
Personally I feel like this is the “open it up” part II. The federal government won’t be a player in this but it is politically in their best interest to argue and divide. Pure theatre unless we start talking dollars to schools.
-
White House blocks CDC from testifying on reopening schools next week
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/white-house-cdc-house-testimony-schools/index.html
The White House is blocking US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield and other officials from the agency from testifying before a House Education and Labor Committee hearing on reopening schools next week, just as the debate over sending children back to classrooms has flared up across the US.
Another million votes for Biden.
-
Personally I feel like this is the “open it up” part II. The federal government won’t be a player in this but it is politically in their best interest to argue and divide. Pure theatre unless we start talking dollars to schools.
Is it, though? I think this I is yet another case of Trump trying to political calculus when he failed 3rd grade math. He seems to think sending children back to school will make things "normal" but is completely oblivious to the effects of a return to school spiking cases and deaths even more just as people are going to the polls. Or, maybe he thinks telling his people to "slow down the testing" and hiding the data will do the trick.
-
You're conflating the AAP with the ACP, maybe on purpose?
Ummm yeah, on purpose! Right. I don't make mistakes.
-
American College of Pediatrics recommends sending children back to in classroom instruction this school year. I know y'all want to believe the science and medical personnel, so everyone supports their position, aina?
You're a rube again.
-
They’re a hate group, not scientists.
-
White House blocks CDC from testifying on reopening schools next week
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/white-house-cdc-house-testimony-schools/index.html
The White House is blocking US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield and other officials from the agency from testifying before a House Education and Labor Committee hearing on reopening schools next week, just as the debate over sending children back to classrooms has flared up across the US.
Everyone knows you should always stifle debate on a winning issue for you.
-
Just got back on da turnip truck. Wish y'all were here.
Love,
Rube
-
Sounds like Missouri's got it all figured out.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch @stltoday
Gov. Mike Parson: “These kids have got to get back to school.... And if they do get COVID-19, which they will — and they will when they go to school — they’re not going to the hospitals.... They’re going to go home and they’re going to get over it.” buff.ly/2WBb8Ye
-
Sound reasoning, aina?
-
Sounds like Missouri's got it all figured out.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch @stltoday
Gov. Mike Parson: “These kids have got to get back to school.... And if they do get COVID-19, which they will — and they will when they go to school — they’re not going to the hospitals.... They’re going to go home and they’re going to get over it.” buff.ly/2WBb8Ye
Yeah, he has it all figured out...except he forgot to add the parts about passing it to their parents and grandparents, who will pass it to co-workers and others in senior centers, who will then flood the hospitals with an overwhelming wave of new cases and eventually deaths.
But other than that, he's probably spot on with the part about the kids.
-
Yeah, he has it all figured out...except he forgot to add the parts about passing it to their parents and grandparents, who will pass it to co-workers and others in senior centers, who will then flood the hospitals with an overwhelming wave of new cases and eventually deaths.
But other than that, he's probably spot on with the part about the kids.
What happens when a kid brings it home and the virus kills one of his parents after they caught it from him/her?
Lifetime guilt?
-
What happens when a kid brings it home and the virus kills one of his parents after they caught it from him/her?
Lifetime guilt?
He can sleep soundly knowing that he enabled his parents to be productive cogs in the capitalistic wheel but for a little while.
-
He can sleep soundly knowing that he enabled his parents to be productive cogs in the capitalistic wheel but for a little while.
"Mommy and Daddy have to do their best to drive a growth based economy because their retirement funds depend on the market going up, Jimmy." "Is that why Daddy went to work while sick?"
-
"Mommy and Daddy have to do their best to drive a growth based economy because their retirement funds depend on the market going up, Jimmy." "Is that why Daddy went to work while sick?"
https://mobile.twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1284663390456082432
Listen to the experts folks
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1284663390456082432
Listen to the experts folks
I look forward to this administration's unprecedented investment in public schools and the surrounding environments to make them safe for all inhabitants.
Dear God I worry about your echo chambers.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/5-pediatricians-on-the-safety-of-schools-amid-pandemic-87569477784 (https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/5-pediatricians-on-the-safety-of-schools-amid-pandemic-87569477784)
-
If I felt they were safe, I would send my kids as well and wouldn't want them to start virtually.
-
If I felt they were safe, I would send my kids as well and wouldn't want them to start virtually.
Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?
My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.
-
Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?
My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.
I don’t have kids myself, however I spoke to my good friend last night who has 4 under 6, including 18 month old twins. They’re in Columbus suburbs and his wife is a nurse, turned stay at home mom. They are most concerned with the general situation in their community. If things are stable and cases relatively calm, they are fine with their kids going back. There has been talk of temperature testing with the handheld units and immediate removal if a kid has a fever. They aren’t too tied to constant testing of kids at school. FWIW
-
Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?
My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.
Parent of a middle and high schooler here.
I'm fortunate that my town and county has seen relatively few cases and no one in my household/immediate circle would be considered especially susceptible to COVID. So that weighs in our decision, as do the actions our schools will be taking to minimize risk (we're still waiting for their final plans). Masks and reasonable social distancing will be a must. My kids both attend smaller, private schools, so that helps as well. It'll be easy to keep kids in small groups, limit movement within the building, etc. And neither ride a bus to school.
We'll wait to see the schools' final plans, but based on our circumstances and what we know so far, our kids will likely have some in-person school.
FWIW, I've yet to hear of a school that's going to test kids. Everything I've seen from the schools in my area is that symptomatic kids will be quarantined until they can be picked up by parents and then won't be allowed back until after they receive a negative test.
-
Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?
My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.
This is a good question, and quite frankly an easy one to avoid in reality because it's so obvious to me that we're not there, and there's no good faith conversation with one side of the political establishment on what those qualitative/quantitative metrics are to get there.
My thoughts on it with a kid that I'm withholding from his first formal schooling due to the risk, but am sending back to a childcare facility. For reasons that I won't expand on here, I trust that facility significantly more than a new school, but will admit that even childcare is beyond my comfort zone and is simply becoming an economic necessity.
- R rate near (preferably at or under) 1
- guarantee of appropriate PPE for faculty and underserved children
- Clearly documented contingency plans for students and faculty
- Full sick pay for all in-school employees- eliminate this very American culture of "toughing it out", or coming to work because of economics
- the obvious masking/sanitization protocols throughout
- I don't have grade-eligible kids, but I'd want an understanding of how absence policies would be applied
- Faster test results (needs to be within 24 to 48 hours to be anywhere near effective). In Wisconsin those tests are currently free. I'm not sure if that's the case elsewhere in the US
-
Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?
My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.
My kids are all adults so it really doesn't apply to me. But I would focus mostly on how they are planning to keep them safe within the school. Spacing, masking, etc.
-
Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?
My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.
No specific criteria I looked for when we were having discussions with our school community. Was really just looking for the totality of safety/mitigating protocols they were putting in place and what the contingency plan was if things go sideways.
That and the advice of our pediatrician has made us 100% comfortable with sending them back while knowing there are no guarantees they or we won’t end up getting it.
Thankfully all in good health so if we do get it I’m confident we’ll be back in our feet in no time. Genuinely feel bad for kids and parents who live in districts that aren’t willing to give this an honest shot and hope they can get back to some sense of normalcy sooner then later.
-
No specific criteria I looked for when we were having discussions with our school community. Was really just looking for the totality of safety/mitigating protocols they were putting in place and what the contingency plan was if things go sideways.
That and the advice of our pediatrician has made us 100% comfortable with sending them back while knowing there are no guarantees they or we won’t end up getting it.
Thankfully all in good health so if we do get it I’m confident we’ll be back in our feet in no time. Genuinely feel bad for kids and parents who live in districts that aren’t willing to give this an honest shot and hope they can get back to some sense of normalcy sooner then later.
I feel bad for kids and parents who live in districts whose counties/municipalities are overrun by COVID-19, making it a non-starter to re-open schools.
Kids need school. They and their parents and grandparents and parents' co-workers do need to stay healthy and alive, though.
-
Meet up with the principals this evening. Current intent is to have in person classes starting on August 19. All parents who participated were respectful. No vocal outliers. Variations on the safety v opening graph.
It can all go away if cases explode and the governor decides to close it down.
-
I feel bad for kids and parents who live in districts whose counties/municipalities are overrun by COVID-19, making it a non-starter to re-open schools.
Kids need school. They and their parents and grandparents and parents' co-workers do need to stay healthy and alive, though.
Absolutely! There are certainly counties where it would be a tough sell to open up in the fall.
There are also counties where it would totally reasonable to open up and there not, who knows why?
-
Absolutely! There are certainly counties where it would be a tough sell to open up in the fall.
There are also counties where it would totally reasonable to open up and there not, who knows why?
I'm only familiar with what's going on in NC. Here, the the largest school systems, which are all in metro areas that are nowhere near in control of COVID-19, seem to be making the right decision to go virtual, at least for the fall. Other districts are at least choosing a hybrid system, with social distancing and masking, etc. Also seems prudent.
-
What would folks say to this Charlotte teacher, who works at one of the 5 largest high schools in NC?
“I cannot retire. I cannot resign. I need my job,” said Nhora Gómez-Saxon, a teacher at South Mecklenburg High School. “And right now I am the only one working in my family. I do not have an underlying condition, but I have a mother who finished her cancer treatment just on time to celebrate her 80th birthday.”
So if one demands that in-person school take place in Charlotte, one is demanding that this teacher put her family's health in jeopardy. Just one of many examples of how this is not just a case of "students aren't likely to get it, and if they don't they won't get very sick" issue.
Meanwhile, the most recent survey of NC parents of school-aged children, 44% said it could be 3-12 months until they feel comfortable sending kids to school, day care or camp. Another 16% say it would take them a year, and 3% wouldn’t again feel at ease with the idea, according to findings Chernoff Newman published this month.
About 18% say the idea already makes them comfortable, and that same portion expects to feel that way sometime “over the summer,” according to results from the marketing firm.
FYI, NC school districts have 2 options: virtual-only education or a "hybrid" system of remote and in-person learning. Most of the large districts have chosen virtual-only.
The largest, which includes Charlotte, has chosen in-person reporting for 2 weeks so kids can meet their teachers and classmates, get supplies, do orientation, etc.; followed by virtual learning for the rest of the fall semester. The teacher quoted at the top of this comment works in this district and isn't comfortable reporting to school for those 2 weeks.
-
What would folks say to this Charlotte teacher, who works at one of the 5 largest high schools in NC?
“I cannot retire. I cannot resign. I need my job,” said Nhora Gómez-Saxon, a teacher at South Mecklenburg High School. “And right now I am the only one working in my family. I do not have an underlying condition, but I have a mother who finished her cancer treatment just on time to celebrate her 80th birthday.”
So if one demands that in-person school take place in Charlotte, one is demanding that this teacher put her family's health in jeopardy. Just one of many examples of how this is not just a case of "students aren't likely to get it, and if they don't they won't get very sick" issue.
Meanwhile, the most recent survey of NC parents of school-aged children, 44% said it could be 3-12 months until they feel comfortable sending kids to school, day care or camp. Another 16% say it would take them a year, and 3% wouldn’t again feel at ease with the idea, according to findings Chernoff Newman published this month.
About 18% say the idea already makes them comfortable, and that same portion expects to feel that way sometime “over the summer,” according to results from the marketing firm.
FYI, NC school districts have 2 options: virtual-only education or a "hybrid" system of remote and in-person learning. Most of the large districts have chosen virtual-only.
The largest, which includes Charlotte, has chosen in-person reporting for 2 weeks so kids can meet their teachers and classmates, get supplies, do orientation, etc.; followed by virtual learning for the rest of the fall semester. The teacher quoted at the top of this comment works in this district and isn't comfortable reporting to school for those 2 weeks.
It’s the right of that school district to look at the Covid situation in there local communities and based off the majority opinion of the parents it seems they are making the right decision.
If the majority of parents voted to have in person teaching I would then tell that teacher referenced above to not see her Mom without wearing a mask, washing hands, etc.. and limit interactions to outdoors like everyone else is doing with their high risk loved ones.
-
It’s the right of that school district to look at the Covid situation in there local communities and based off the majority opinion of the parents it seems they are making the right decision.
If the majority of parents voted to have in person teaching I would then tell that teacher referenced above to not see her Mom without wearing a mask, washing hands, etc.. and limit interactions to outdoors like everyone else is doing with their high risk loved ones.
Why should the parents get to make all the decisions?
-
Yup. Majority of parents voting to kill a teacher.
Harsh, but potentially true.
-
Voting to kill a teacher?!?!?
I don’t think or said parents should have the only voice in the decision. But their voices shouldn’t be ignored either, right?
-
PA2, all should be heard. Tuesday, I sat through a 90 minute zoom meeting with the administrators, teachers, and many parents from my 8th grade to be's school. Though it looks like we will be attempting in person classes starting on 8/19, it was far from the consensus choice among the either the teachers or the students. Most of the parents wanted to start virtual and hopefully be able to go in person by October 1. Unfortunately, our little school lacks the resources to do both simultaneously. The teachers were forthright about what they are going to have to be doing. It isn't pretty.
And yes, opening too soon will end up killing a teacher. Just like it is infecting 10's of thousands in all of the states that opened up too soon. Own it.
-
Voting to kill a teacher?!?!?
This is voting to kill a teacher in the same way that teachers (and others) have been voting to kill grocery store and instacart employees by shopping. And voting to kill Amazon employees by placing orders. And voting to kill doctors by having elective procedures, and voting to kill PTs by going to therapy, and voting to kill people from restaurants, door dash and restaurant supply companies by ordering take out (not to mention going out to eat). And voting to kill daycare employees by sending kids to daycare. And voting to kill bankers, lawyers, appraisers etc., by refinancing their homes. And voting to kill car sales people and UAW workers by buying cars. And voting to kill firefighters by shooting off a bunch of fireworks on the 4th. And voting to kill factory workers by buying toilet paper, and hand sanitizer, and soap, and masks. And the same way people are voting to kill athletes by watching the TBT, or MLB, or NBA.
There is no easy answer. And everything has a heightened level of risk. People have to evaluate their situation and decide what is best for them. Millions of people had to make this decision months ago. Teachers are there now. They have to make their own decisions. There is risk on both sides, and that sucks. That's life.
This is more convoluted, because there is a remote option, but it doesn't work for everyone, and it isn't even viable for everyone. And when it works and is viable, it isn't as good. But I guess I don't understand why teachers going to work is different from anyone else in the country going to work.
-
With this virus, every single person who has rushed re-opening has been wrong. As for comparing teachers to all of those other professions, in most cases the industry opened up with caveats. Only x amount of people allowed in a building at a time. Masks to be worn in all public building. Etc. Now, a suburban high school is going to have 1500 teenagers in a small space. A kindergarten teacher is going to have thirty 5 year olds not wearing masks. The EXACT things we know increase spread.
-
But I guess I don't understand why teachers going to work is different from anyone else in the country going to work.
Not taking sides here, but it's a little more complicated than this.
Teachers want to go back to work, but they want to go back to work in a way that is safe for themselves, their families and their students.
It's not a choice between being in a packed classroom vs sitting at home eating macaroons and watching "The View." It's a choice between in-person learning vs virtual learning. I don't think there's anyone who can honestly tell you that, all things being equal, the latter is preferable. But not all things are equal, as there are legitimate and serious public health issues at play as well. And what it comes down to is whether the benefits of in-person learning during a pandemic outweigh the health risks of in-person learning during a pandemic.
The availability of that virtual option is what makes this materially different than many of the examples you cited, which makes for less-than-adequate comparisons. There is no virtual food. There is no virtual replacement for goods delivered by Amazon. There are no online day care centers or virtual ways to put out a fire or play an NBA game.
-
Indeed .. it's odd (and I'd say wrong) that there is "voting" on whether or not to go back to school in-person.
Just like smoking was barred from workplaces (restaurants) due to 2nd hand smoke being a health danger to employees .. No one should be able to vote teachers into jobs with this substantial risk.
Those surveys are full of bad data. 100% of parents want their kids back in school like it was 2019.
-
We are hearing more from teachers because they have the ability to speak out. They are largely protected by unions, and have more wealth and income than many of the traditional "essential workers." And in return, many are ridiculing their concerns. Which isn't helpful.
As I have mentioned earlier, my neice is a teacher whose mom has underlying health issues. Once schools starts, she isn't planning on seeing them in person until the Holidays. And she lives a mile away from them.
-
The availability of that virtual option is what makes this materially different than many of the examples you cited, which makes for less-than-adequate comparisons. There is no virtual food. There is no virtual replacement for goods delivered by Amazon. There are no online day care centers or virtual ways to put out a fire or play an NBA game.
Which is why I also said:
This is more convoluted, because there is a remote option, but it doesn't work for everyone, and it isn't even viable for everyone. And when it works and is viable, it isn't as good.
And I'm not I said or implied anything about work or macaroons and the view.
-
What would folks say to this Charlotte teacher, who works at one of the 5 largest high schools in NC?
“I cannot retire. I cannot resign. I need my job,” said Nhora Gómez-Saxon, a teacher at South Mecklenburg High School. “And right now I am the only one working in my family. I do not have an underlying condition, but I have a mother who finished her cancer treatment just on time to celebrate her 80th birthday.”
So if one demands that in-person school take place in Charlotte, one is demanding that this teacher put her family's health in jeopardy. Just one of many examples of how this is not just a case of "students aren't likely to get it, and if they don't they won't get very sick" issue.
Meanwhile, the most recent survey of NC parents of school-aged children, 44% said it could be 3-12 months until they feel comfortable sending kids to school, day care or camp. Another 16% say it would take them a year, and 3% wouldn’t again feel at ease with the idea, according to findings Chernoff Newman published this month.
About 18% say the idea already makes them comfortable, and that same portion expects to feel that way sometime “over the summer,” according to results from the marketing firm.
FYI, NC school districts have 2 options: virtual-only education or a "hybrid" system of remote and in-person learning. Most of the large districts have chosen virtual-only.
The largest, which includes Charlotte, has chosen in-person reporting for 2 weeks so kids can meet their teachers and classmates, get supplies, do orientation, etc.; followed by virtual learning for the rest of the fall semester. The teacher quoted at the top of this comment works in this district and isn't comfortable reporting to school for those 2 weeks.
[/qu
Easy, get fired, collect unemployment plus $600/week and kick it. Next person up, hey?
-
We are hearing more from teachers because they have the ability to speak out. They are largely protected by unions, and have more wealth and income than many of the traditional "essential workers." And in return, many are ridiculing their concerns. Which isn't helpful.
I think this is pretty accurate. And I hope my statement wasn't taken as ridiculing their concerns. That was not my intent. Obviously there are completely valid concerns. But there are concerns for everyone that has had to go back to work anytime over the last few months. And whether it is seeing hundreds of customers a day inside a grocery store, or seeing 30 customers a day at an oil change place, or anything else, every job in which people are present has had risk factors increase exponentially.
But in many cases, how teachers are speaking out seems sanctimonious and ignores the risks others have taken. Which also doesn't help.
-
Easy, get fired, collect unemployment plus $600/week and kick it. Next person up, hey?
1. The $600 ends after this week. And you don't get unemployment if you quit your job.
2. I like how cavalier you are about just letting good, experienced teachers quitting en masse instead of considering what it might take to allow them to do their job safely.
3. Less people are going into teacher education nationwide. The idea that there are enough quality teachers simply sitting on the sidelines waiting for a chance is not an accurate one. This isn't 10-20 years ago.
-
Yup. Do some research on the teacher shortage. And particularly the substitute teacher shortage.
For many of the same reasons there is a shortage of qualified police officer candidates.
-
There is no easy answer.
This is more convoluted, because there is a remote option, but it doesn't work for everyone, and it isn't even viable for everyone. And when it works and is viable, it isn't as good. But I guess I don't understand why teachers going to work is different from anyone else in the country going to work.
Your first line is correct.
Others have explained why your last line might not be. Heck, even what you said in the first part of that last paragraph explains why it might not be.
Or we can just say what Doc says: "Eff 'em. Good teachers are easy to find."
We are hearing more from teachers because they have the ability to speak out. They are largely protected by unions
Here in NC, and in many red states, teachers unions have been effectively killed. There is collective body with any clout that speaks for teachers in states such as NC. They've been told, "You'll get what we give you and shut the hell up" here for years.
-
1. The $600 ends after this week. And you don't get unemployment if you quit your job.
2. I like how cavalier you are about just letting good, experienced teachers quitting en masse instead of considering what it might take to allow them to do their job safely.
3. Less people are going into teacher education nationwide. The idea that there are enough quality teachers simply sitting on the sidelines waiting for a chance is not an accurate one. This isn't 10-20 years ago.
Education is going virtual, so the need isn't as great as it seems
-
Sell the dental practice. Become a substitute teacher for your retirement years. Be the positive influence they so desperately need. You are just the guy to do it.
-
Education is going virtual, so the need isn't as great as it seems
???
In the post you quoted from MU82 above, the woman whose quote you bolded, was concerned about a lack of safety in an in-person setting. You said she should quit. Now you are saying that education is going virtual.
And if you don't think we need qualified teachers to teach in a virtual setting, you are mistaken. In fact I would argue that need is more acute. You can't just take a teacher who has taught in person for 20 years and put her in front of a web-cam. It's a different skill set.
-
???
In the post you quoted from MU82 above, the woman whose quote you bolded, was concerned about a lack of safety in an in-person setting. You said she should quit. Now you are saying that education is going virtual.
And if you don't think we need qualified teachers to teach in a virtual setting, you are mistaken. In fact I would argue that need is more acute. You can't just take a teacher who has taught in person for 20 years and put her in front of a web-cam. It's a different skill set.
There were already differences in quality of teaching from one instructor to another. The switch to virtual has made this a significantly wider gap. Teaching in the virtual realm is a beast of another animal, and when done right, can actually take more of an instructors time. I'd argue that a properly constructed virtual course, that optimizes instructor/student interactions, would require more teachers and faculty, as the student/instructor ratio should be smaller to ensure the best student outcomes.
-
Not taking sides here, but it's a little more complicated than this.
Teachers want to go back to work, but they want to go back to work in a way that is safe for themselves, their families and their students.
It's not a choice between being in a packed classroom vs sitting at home eating macaroons and watching "The View." It's a choice between in-person learning vs virtual learning. I don't think there's anyone who can honestly tell you that, all things being equal, the latter is preferable. But not all things are equal, as there are legitimate and serious public health issues at play as well. And what it comes down to is whether the benefits of in-person learning during a pandemic outweigh the health risks of in-person learning during a pandemic.
The availability of that virtual option is what makes this materially different than many of the examples you cited, which makes for less-than-adequate comparisons. There is no virtual food. There is no virtual replacement for goods delivered by Amazon. There are no online day care centers or virtual ways to put out a fire or play an NBA game.
Umm what about NBA 2K?
But more seriously +1 to this post
-
I hadn't given a lot of thought to substitute teachers .. my wife was a sub for 4 years. In the best times, they are in very short supply.
I imagine if in-person classes go forward, the sub shortage will be gigantic.
-
I hadn't given a lot of thought to substitute teachers .. my wife was a sub for 4 years. In the best times, they are in very short supply.
I imagine if in-person classes go forward, the sub shortage will be gigantic.
It doesn't help that in many places you can do better working the register at Target than working as a substitute teacher.
(Not saying Target workers are overpaid, but that sub teachers are underpaid).
-
It was touched on at the aforementioned back to school virtual meeting. Our administrators did not have an answer.
-
Sell the dental practice. Become a substitute teacher for your retirement years. Be the positive influence they so desperately need. You are just the guy to do it.
Nah, he should just donate all the PPE he gets to use to teachers, and instead of doing his exams one at a time he can have thirty five year old children in his office at once.
Plenty of dentists around. Next man up, aina?
-
I hadn't given a lot of thought to substitute teachers .. my wife was a sub for 4 years. In the best times, they are in very short supply.
I imagine if in-person classes go forward, the sub shortage will be gigantic.
The only one I know, personally, decided to call it a career last month and retired.
-
There were already differences in quality of teaching from one instructor to another. The switch to virtual has made this a significantly wider gap. Teaching in the virtual realm is a beast of another animal, and when done right, can actually take more of an instructors time. I'd argue that a properly constructed virtual course, that optimizes instructor/student interactions, would require more teachers and faculty, as the student/instructor ratio should be smaller to ensure the best student outcomes.
Totally agree with this.
My wife is a para/teacher's aide, so she worked directly with her teacher this past spring. They were bending over backwards to come up with ways to keep the kids engaged and keep up with the curriculum, and it was definitely more work than they usually put in. And even though this would ease a bit over time, I seriously doubt the job would be 'easier' than before just because it might continue to be virtual.
Beyond the switch to virtual (difficult enough in its own right), the most difficult thing facing teachers now is the very real possibility that some school districts might expect them to teach in-person and virtually at the same time. It is a difficult enough job to do exclusively in-person or virtual; even more difficult if they might be going back and forth throughout the year, and crazy difficult to impossible if they might be required to do both simultaneously. And the possibility of having to ping-pong between these scenarios throughout the school year makes planning virtually impossible, and extremely stressful.
Given all that, it seems to me that we might want to listen a little harder to the teachers' views on the subject, and take their views very seriously.
-
It is easy to be snarky, but on a lot of levels, I am serious. Scoopers old enough to be retired have an opportunity to give back and help educate today's youth. And earn a (very) few bucks on the side. If this doesn't appeal, what is it about teaching you don't find appealing, even on a limited basis? This could be your opportunity to be the proverbial 'next man up.'
-
Just curious, has anyone else decided to go the route that my wife and I have chosen and to home school their kids this year?
By no means am I saying that's the best/most effective option, I'm just wondering what that number is going to look like. None of my friends/neighbors are going that route, I believe we'll be in a small minority in that regard.
-
It is easy to be snarky, but on a lot of levels, I am serious. Scoopers old enough to be retired have an opportunity to give back and help educate today's youth. And earn a (very) few bucks on the side. If this doesn't appeal, what is it about teaching you don't find appealing, even on a limited basis? This could be your opportunity to be the proverbial 'next man up.'
Interesting you say that, because I am close to retiring and have been thinking of getting my teaching certificate. Back in the day, I was a university TA for a couple years, and even taught intro level Biology, Anatomy and Physiology at a nearby community college. Thing is, I am not going to risk my life doing it, and I certainly am not going to start at a time where even great, experienced teachers are getting stressed to the breaking point. So for now, my plans are on hold...but in a year or two after COVID is past, I may be the 'new' 60-year old guy at a local high school or community college.
-
Just curious, has anyone else decided to go the route that my wife and I have chosen and to home school their kids this year?
By no means am I saying that's the best/most effective option, I'm just wondering what that number is going to look like. None of my friends/neighbors are going that route, I believe we'll be in a small minority in that regard.
Is your district not offering a virtual option?
-
It is easy to be snarky, but on a lot of levels, I am serious. Scoopers old enough to be retired have an opportunity to give back and help educate today's youth. And earn a (very) few bucks on the side. If this doesn't appeal, what is it about teaching you don't find appealing, even on a limited basis? This could be your opportunity to be the proverbial 'next man up.'
Why would they come out of retirement and jeopardize their health and safety when there are teachers on payroll they could sacrifice instead
-
Is your district not offering a virtual option?
They are offering a virtual option, but my wife and I didn't feel it went that great from March - May, so we're going to home school for this upcoming year instead. Context - my wife has her degree in education, she works at a community college/teaches there as well, and she will be working from home this entire upcoming school year. I work from home as well.
We ran the virtual learning option past our kids, and laid out our plan for home schooling instead, and we came to a consensus on home schooling. Being able to teach them at our pace, get them started on Spanish, teach them life skills as well as the core curriculum, those went into our decision.
I'm not trying to piss on the virtual option, but my kids felt it was more like a job, they were just doing the work to do it, not learning and retaining.
-
They are offering a virtual option, but my wife and I didn't feel it went that great from March - May, so we're going to home school for this upcoming year instead. Context - my wife has her degree in education, she works at a community college/teaches there as well, and she will be working from home this entire upcoming school year. I work from home as well.
We ran the virtual learning option past our kids, and laid out our plan for home schooling instead, and we came to a consensus on home schooling. Being able to teach them at our pace, get them started on Spanish, teach them life skills as well as the core curriculum, those went into our decision.
I'm not trying to piss on the virtual option, but my kids felt it was more like a job, they were just doing the work to do it, not learning and retaining.
That all sounds very reasonable.
-
The guy has totally lost it
-
Sell the dental practice. Become a substitute teacher for your retirement years. Be the positive influence they so desperately need. You are just the guy to do it.
Retirement is 15+ years away. Will think about it then, hey?
-
When my wife's schools have been short on subs, they juggle like crazy with all options on the table.
Sometimes the principal takes a class, sometimes it's the librarian, or the PE teacher, so no library or PE classes are done that day.
But often .. they'll just split the class into two, and send the halves to other classrooms of the same grade. -- Can't do that with COVID.
I can see districts forging ahead without enough subs, then being screwed when they are 3 short for the day -- especially when -- shocker -- a few teachers come down with the COVID and are out for 3-4 weeks minimum.
This will 100% happen.
-
This is a tough situation and a tough decision. Everyone wants in person schools. Everyone wants a safe environment. I have read over the last few pages defending teachers and their rights but what about everyone else's rights? What is essential and not essential? What about Amazon employees? Manufacturing companies? Meat plants? Doctors, nurses? I think education is essential and the essential part involves in person schooling. Should we shut everything down? Tell the meat packers, manufacturers, restaurants, packaging companies, doctors and nurses and everyone else to just shut it down. Go home. They have to deal with the same issues. I am sure they are figuring out ways to see their parents that live a mile away from them or have high risk individuals living in their house.
Virtual schooling might work for the rich but it sure as hell is not going to work for the poor and a lot of others. I'm middle class and my youngest didn't get anything out of the last 3 months of school. With school a little over a month away, I don't see or hear any legitimate ideas from our educational system that it will be any different. Why are we not thinking outside the box with this. A hybrid system can work for the interim. Split class sizes in half, none of this one day in, one day at home bs. Do year round school, on and off on a monthly schedule. Get Google, Apple, Microsoft, Verizon to actually donate laptops, chromebooks, hotspots, educational software that will be used for the greater good.
-
???
And if you don't think we need qualified teachers to teach in a virtual setting, you are mistaken. In fact I would argue that need is more acute. You can't just take a teacher who has taught in person for 20 years and put her in front of a web-cam. It's a different skill set.
Excellent point. One that has my daughter worried. If there is a combo of live and virtual, she mainly has to cater to the virtual in front of a camera. No walking around the room as she teaches, but just sitting at her desk for 7 1/2 hours (including lunch as teachers and students will not be able to leave the classroom).
-
It is easy to be snarky, but on a lot of levels, I am serious. Scoopers old enough to be retired have an opportunity to give back and help educate today's youth. And earn a (very) few bucks on the side. If this doesn't appeal, what is it about teaching you don't find appealing, even on a limited basis? This could be your opportunity to be the proverbial 'next man up.'
Tower, I know a couple people that will be employed now as private teachers for groups of parents. One will be teaching 4-kids total (4 different families; all 2nd graders) and being paid $50 an hour to teach them for 4-hours a day. Parents don't have the time to home school, and don't trust them being back in school. They prefer knowing that they will only be exposed to a youngish retiree and 3 other kids from families they know are also following strict quarantine (e.g. work from home; kids only associate amongst the 4 families).
-
This is a tough situation and a tough decision. Everyone wants in person schools. Everyone wants a safe environment. I have read over the last few pages defending teachers and their rights but what about everyone else's rights? What is essential and not essential? What about Amazon employees? Manufacturing companies? Meat plants? Doctors, nurses? I think education is essential and the essential part involves in person schooling. Should we shut everything down? Tell the meat packers, manufacturers, restaurants, packaging companies, doctors and nurses and everyone else to just shut it down. Go home. They have to deal with the same issues. I am sure they are figuring out ways to see their parents that live a mile away from them or have high risk individuals living in their house.
Virtual schooling might work for the rich but it sure as hell is not going to work for the poor and a lot of others. I'm middle class and my youngest didn't get anything out of the last 3 months of school. With school a little over a month away, I don't see or hear any legitimate ideas from our educational system that it will be any different. Why are we not thinking outside the box with this. A hybrid system can work for the interim. Split class sizes in half, none of this one day in, one day at home bs. Do year round school, on and off on a monthly schedule. Get Google, Apple, Microsoft, Verizon to actually donate laptops, chromebooks, hotspots, educational software that will be used for the greater good.
well said
-
This is a tough situation and a tough decision. Everyone wants in person schools. Everyone wants a safe environment. I have read over the last few pages defending teachers and their rights but what about everyone else's rights? What is essential and not essential? What about Amazon employees? Manufacturing companies? Meat plants? Doctors, nurses? I think education is essential and the essential part involves in person schooling. Should we shut everything down? Tell the meat packers, manufacturers, restaurants, packaging companies, doctors and nurses and everyone else to just shut it down. Go home. They have to deal with the same issues. I am sure they are figuring out ways to see their parents that live a mile away from them or have high risk individuals living in their house.
Virtual schooling might work for the rich but it sure as hell is not going to work for the poor and a lot of others. I'm middle class and my youngest didn't get anything out of the last 3 months of school. With school a little over a month away, I don't see or hear any legitimate ideas from our educational system that it will be any different. Why are we not thinking outside the box with this. A hybrid system can work for the interim. Split class sizes in half, none of this one day in, one day at home bs. Do year round school, on and off on a monthly schedule. Get Google, Apple, Microsoft, Verizon to actually donate laptops, chromebooks, hotspots, educational software that will be used for the greater good.
As Capt. Picard used to say: “Make it so!”
-
This is damning...many doctors upset that the cdc watered down guidance on school reopening last night. The fact Gottleib (who helped with CT’s reopening plan) is telling governments to look abroad for guidance should scare everyone.
https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1286487929397874688?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1286487929397874688?s=21)
-
As long as we don't take Israel's approach.
-
This is damning...many doctors upset that the cdc watered down guidance on school reopening last night. The fact Gottleib (who helped with CT’s reopening plan) is telling governments to look abroad for guidance should scare everyone.
https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1286487929397874688?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1286487929397874688?s=21)
It does terrify me...unless school districts actually do look abroad for guidance.
-
New AP/NORC poll:
80% of Americans polled say they are "very concerned" or "somewhat concerned" about schools reopening.
Notably, among Republicans, 63% say they are "very concerned" or "somewhat concerned."
https://apnorc.org/projects/concerns-about-school-re-openings-loom-large/?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200724&instance_id=20588&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer®i_id=108420427&segment_id=34254&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
Also, 76% of parents say they are "very concerned" or "somewhat concerned" that their kids will fall behind academically.
There are no easy answers. It's not helpful if certain people yell that kids "must go back to school" no matter what or threaten to withhold funding if districts in COVID-19 hotspots refuse to resume in-person schooling.
-
Tower, I know a couple people that will be employed now as private teachers for groups of parents. One will be teaching 4-kids total (4 different families; all 2nd graders) and being paid $50 an hour to teach them for 4-hours a day. Parents don't have the time to home school, and don't trust them being back in school. They prefer knowing that they will only be exposed to a youngish retiree and 3 other kids from families they know are also following strict quarantine (e.g. work from home; kids only associate amongst the 4 families).
I have a feeling that microschool pods are going to become very popular for the wealthy
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-23/silicon-valley-bets-big-on-microschools-and-pods
-
The "first son's" school is not going to fully reopen ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/barron-trump-school-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200724&instance_id=20588&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer®i_id=108420427&segment_id=34254&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
WASHINGTON — The school attended by President Trump’s son will not fully reopen in September out of concern over the coronavirus pandemic despite the president’s insistence that students across the country be brought back to classrooms in the fall.
St. Andrew’s Episcopal School, a private school in Washington’s Maryland suburbs, said in a letter to parents that it was still deciding whether to adopt a hybrid model for the fall that would allow limited in-person education or to resume holding all classes completely online as was done in the spring. The school will decide early next month which option to follow.
“We are hopeful that public health conditions will support our implementation of the hybrid model in the fall,” said the letter signed by Robert Kosasky, the head of school, and David Brown, the assistant head. “As we prepare to make a decision the week of Aug. 10 about how to best begin the school year,” they added, “we will continue to follow guidance of appropriate health officials and refine both our hybrid and distance learning plans.”
If the school does opt for the hybrid model, students in Grades 7 through 12 would rotate between on-campus and distance learning, with half of the students learning remotely each week. Barron Trump, 14, the youngest of the president’s five children, has spent the last three years at St. Andrew’s.
Mr. Trump has repeatedly insisted that schools fully open and has threatened to withhold federal money from districts that do not, but states, localities and private schools increasingly are defying him.
Teachers’ union leaders said the St. Andrew’s situation should bring home to Mr. Trump how complicated reopening is for schools trying to balance the educational needs of their children and the health concerns of the staff, students and community.
-
The "first son's" school is not going to fully reopen ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/barron-trump-school-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200724&instance_id=20588&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer®i_id=108420427&segment_id=34254&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
WASHINGTON — The school attended by President Trump’s son will not fully reopen in September out of concern over the coronavirus pandemic despite the president’s insistence that students across the country be brought back to classrooms in the fall.
St. Andrew’s Episcopal School, a private school in Washington’s Maryland suburbs, said in a letter to parents that it was still deciding whether to adopt a hybrid model for the fall that would allow limited in-person education or to resume holding all classes completely online as was done in the spring. The school will decide early next month which option to follow.
“We are hopeful that public health conditions will support our implementation of the hybrid model in the fall,” said the letter signed by Robert Kosasky, the head of school, and David Brown, the assistant head. “As we prepare to make a decision the week of Aug. 10 about how to best begin the school year,” they added, “we will continue to follow guidance of appropriate health officials and refine both our hybrid and distance learning plans.”
If the school does opt for the hybrid model, students in Grades 7 through 12 would rotate between on-campus and distance learning, with half of the students learning remotely each week. Barron Trump, 14, the youngest of the president’s five children, has spent the last three years at St. Andrew’s.
Mr. Trump has repeatedly insisted that schools fully open and has threatened to withhold federal money from districts that do not, but states, localities and private schools increasingly are defying him.
Teachers’ union leaders said the St. Andrew’s situation should bring home to Mr. Trump how complicated reopening is for schools trying to balance the educational needs of their children and the health concerns of the staff, students and community.
Certainly he will pull his kid out of that place, and send him to a school that will reopen under his orders.
-
Annnnd now, the CDC going into Full Politics Mode ...
The top U.S. public health agency issued a full-throated call to reopen schools in a package of new “resources and tools” posted on its website Thursday night that opened with a statement that sounded more like a political speech than a scientific document, listing numerous benefits for children of being in school and downplaying the potential health risks.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published the new guidance two weeks after President Trump criticized its earlier recommendations on school reopenings as “very tough and expensive,” ramping up what had already been an anguished national debate over the question of how soon children should return to classrooms. As the president was criticizing the initial C.D.C. recommendations, a document from the agency surfaced that detailed the risks of reopening and the steps that districts were taking to minimize those risks.
“Reopening schools creates opportunity to invest in the education, well-being, and future of one of America’s greatest assets — our children — while taking every precaution to protect students, teachers, staff and all their families,” the new opening statement said.
The package of materials began with the opening statement, titled “The Importance of Reopening America’s Schools This Fall,” and repeatedly described children as being at low risk for being infected by or transmitting the coronavirus, even though the science on both aspects is far from settled.
“The best available evidence indicates if children become infected, they are far less likely to suffer severe symptoms,” the statement said. “At the same time, the harms attributed to closed schools on the social, emotional, and behavioral health, economic well-being, and academic achievement of children, in both the short- and long-term, are well-known and significant.”
While children infected by the virus are at low risk of becoming severely ill or dying, how often they become infected and how efficiently they spread the virus to others is not definitively known. Children in middle and high schools may also be at much higher risk of both than those under 10, according to some recent studies.
Beyond the statement, the package included decision tools and checklists for parents, guidance on mitigation measures for schools to take and other information that some epidemiologists described as helpful.
The new materials are meant to supplement guidance the C.D.C. previously issued on when and how to reopen schools, with recommendations such as keeping desks six feet apart and keeping children in one classroom all day instead of allowing them to move around.
The new statement released on Thursday is a stark departure from the 69-page document, obtained by The New York Times earlier this month, marked “For Internal Use Only,” which was intended for federal public health response teams to have as they are deployed to hot spots around the country.
That document classified as “highest risk” the full reopening of schools, and its suggestions for mitigating the risk of school reopenings would be expensive and difficult for many districts, like broad testing of students and faculty and contact tracing to find people exposed to an infected student or teacher.
-
Annnnd now, the CDC going into Full Politics Mode ...
The top U.S. public health agency issued a full-throated call to reopen schools in a package of new “resources and tools” posted on its website Thursday night that opened with a statement that sounded more like a political speech than a scientific document, listing numerous benefits for children of being in school and downplaying the potential health risks.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published the new guidance two weeks after President Trump criticized its earlier recommendations on school reopenings as “very tough and expensive,” ramping up what had already been an anguished national debate over the question of how soon children should return to classrooms. As the president was criticizing the initial C.D.C. recommendations, a document from the agency surfaced that detailed the risks of reopening and the steps that districts were taking to minimize those risks.
“Reopening schools creates opportunity to invest in the education, well-being, and future of one of America’s greatest assets — our children — while taking every precaution to protect students, teachers, staff and all their families,” the new opening statement said.
The package of materials began with the opening statement, titled “The Importance of Reopening America’s Schools This Fall,” and repeatedly described children as being at low risk for being infected by or transmitting the coronavirus, even though the science on both aspects is far from settled.
“The best available evidence indicates if children become infected, they are far less likely to suffer severe symptoms,” the statement said. “At the same time, the harms attributed to closed schools on the social, emotional, and behavioral health, economic well-being, and academic achievement of children, in both the short- and long-term, are well-known and significant.”
While children infected by the virus are at low risk of becoming severely ill or dying, how often they become infected and how efficiently they spread the virus to others is not definitively known. Children in middle and high schools may also be at much higher risk of both than those under 10, according to some recent studies.
Beyond the statement, the package included decision tools and checklists for parents, guidance on mitigation measures for schools to take and other information that some epidemiologists described as helpful.
The new materials are meant to supplement guidance the C.D.C. previously issued on when and how to reopen schools, with recommendations such as keeping desks six feet apart and keeping children in one classroom all day instead of allowing them to move around.
The new statement released on Thursday is a stark departure from the 69-page document, obtained by The New York Times earlier this month, marked “For Internal Use Only,” which was intended for federal public health response teams to have as they are deployed to hot spots around the country.
That document classified as “highest risk” the full reopening of schools, and its suggestions for mitigating the risk of school reopenings would be expensive and difficult for many districts, like broad testing of students and faculty and contact tracing to find people exposed to an infected student or teacher.
We know that the poser who was advising trump was pushing to soften the guidelines.
-
The "first son's" school is not going to fully reopen ...
And that poor kid would benefit far more than most from getting out of the home.... ;)
FWIW, the lessons we are learning from places that actually had the virus contained should give caution to those clamoring for in-person school.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/world/coronavirus-covid-19.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-1038969f
If places that had successfully contained the virus can only last a month or so before cases begin to rebound, how can we possibly open schools in the vast majority of the US? Or even in places that do have it effectively contained, like Melbourne and Spain did?
-
I don’t think schools should open, although with Rt in Wisconsin at 1.01, I’m beginning to change my mind. My wife and I are both in hospitals with me working with COVID+ patients. Our children went to live with in laws for 11 weeks in March. We got a survey from our district last week about reopening. 3 days later the teachers union demanded all virtual and told the district they weren’t going back until there were 14 straight days of ZERO cases in our county. The next day, the district went all virtual for the next quarter, even though the survey was supposed to go for another 10 days. This week we got another email from the district that virtual learning wouldn’t start right away the first day because the teachers needed professional development days and we would start within the first week.
It’s weird the rhetoric went from “we need to find a way to safely open schools” to “everyone is going to die.” I wish the education system was a little more sensitive to those of us who have made major sacrifices for months now. It would be nice to hear someone say, “I’m working my tail off right now to make virtual learning the best possible situation.” And I’m sure those people are out there, but they certainly get drowned out by the doomsday people.
FYI, our virtual learning was garbage. Our teacher never met with our daughter one on one and we received zero feedback on where her progress was on various subjects. We are thankful that we have access to apps, that show us where she is developmentally.
-
What has been the leading factor of spread in states that thought they had it under control? Large gatherings that don't wear masks or observe social distancing. What is school as it relates to COVID? A large gathering where social distancing is going to be nearly impossible with a population prone to not thinking through consequences of actions. (i.e. wearing/not wearing masks)
And we are going to be asking the underpaid teachers and underfunded school districts to attempt yet another social miracle.
-
I don’t think schools should open, although with Rt in Wisconsin at 1.01, I’m beginning to change my mind. My wife and I are both in hospitals with me working with COVID+ patients. Our children went to live with in laws for 11 weeks in March. We got a survey from our district last week about reopening. 3 days later the teachers union demanded all virtual and told the district they weren’t going back until there were 14 straight days of ZERO cases in our county. The next day, the district went all virtual for the next quarter, even though the survey was supposed to go for another 10 days. This week we got another email from the district that virtual learning wouldn’t start right away the first day because the teachers needed professional development days and we would start within the first week.
It’s weird the rhetoric went from “we need to find a way to safely open schools” to “everyone is going to die.” I wish the education system was a little more sensitive to those of us who have made major sacrifices for months now. It would be nice to hear someone say, “I’m working my tail off right now to make virtual learning the best possible situation.” And I’m sure those people are out there, but they certainly get drowned out by the doomsday people.
FYI, our virtual learning was garbage. Our teacher never met with our daughter one on one and we received zero feedback on where her progress was on various subjects. We are thankful that we have access to apps, that show us where she is developmentally.
Pretty much agree on all of this.
I think/hope the virtual learning will be much better in the fall as the teachers and school districts will have had time to prepare.
I will say that my daughter (a teacher) was extremely disappointed in the lack of preparedness of the school district in March. In fact, there was zero preparedness, so anything is going to be better. Teachers will be required to teach from their classrooms instead of their homes and time spent will be similar to a normal school day.
-
What has been the leading factor of spread in states that thought they had it under control? Large gatherings that don't wear masks or observe social distancing. What is school as it relates to COVID? A large gathering where social distancing is going to be nearly impossible with a population prone to not thinking through consequences of actions. (i.e. wearing/not wearing masks)
And we are going to be asking the underpaid teachers and underfunded school districts to attempt yet another social miracle.
The good news though, is that it will all be the teachers fault. They hate America and want to get rid of trump.
-
A 9-year-old girl with no known underlying health conditions is the youngest person to die from coronavirus complications in Florida, officials said.
https://apple.news/AfoXCBnqNQpaOyBcaO4CkfQ
-
What has been the leading factor of spread in states that thought they had it under control? Large gatherings that don't wear masks or observe social distancing. What is school as it relates to COVID? A large gathering where social distancing is going to be nearly impossible with a population prone to not thinking through consequences of actions. (i.e. wearing/not wearing masks)
And we are going to be asking the underpaid teachers and underfunded school districts to attempt yet another social miracle.
What is the infection rate/transmission rate amongst school aged children?? Also, what is your plan for parents that would now need to stay home with their kids because they aren't in school, and they can't go to work?? Thanks, I will hang up and listen.
-
Schools all open on time. Young people do what young people do. Infection rates skyrocket even more, forcing governors to close everything down anyway. But now the kids have brought the infection from school home to mom, dad, brother, sister, nana and pop-pop.
What is your plan for that? I'll hang up and listen.
-
What is the infection rate/transmission rate amongst school aged children?? Also, what is your plan for parents that would now need to stay home with their kids because they aren't in school, and they can't go to work?? Thanks, I will hang up and listen.
I have not seen any reliable transmission info among school-aged children...but the experiences in Israel and Germany suggest it is considerably higher than many would want to believe.
As to your second question - the parents deal with this the same way everyone else is dealing with a once-in-a-lifetime global catastrophe: the best they can. And they hope that our government comes up with another bailout package to help them get through it.
There are no good answers, but there are certainly better and worse ones.
-
What is the infection rate/transmission rate amongst school aged children?? Also, what is your plan for parents that would now need to stay home with their kids because they aren't in school, and they can't go to work?? Thanks, I will hang up and listen.
Ok, I'll leave the "plan" part out of it. But to Infection/transmission - it's not yet understood - and I think people are scared of being the test subjects. Generally though, elementary school age aren't thought to be much of a problem, but middle/high school age can easily get sick/carry it. Here's a good breakdown from Science Magazine:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks
In the high school, antibody testing showed that 38% of pupils, 43% of teachers, and 59% of nonteaching staff had been infected. (By then, several people associated with the school had been hospitalized with COVID-19 complications.) In six elementary schools, they found a total of three children who had caught the virus, likely from family members, and then attended school while infected. But, as far as the researchers could tell, those younger children didn’t pass the virus on to any close contacts.
also
Other outbreaks also suggest that elementary school pupils pose a smaller threat than older students. Among the worst schoolwide outbreaks was at Gymnasium Rehavia, a middle and high school in Jerusalem, where 153 students and 25 staff were infected in late May and early June. An outbreak at a New Zealand high school before that country’s shutdown infected 96 people, including students, teachers, staff, and parents. In contrast, a neighboring elementary school saw few cases.
Unfortunately though:
Another Israeli outbreak was in an elementary school in Jaffa, with 33 students and five staff members affected. Across the globe, an elementary school classroom in Trois-Rivières, Canada, had nine of 11 students infected after one contracted the virus in the community.
Other data come from day care centers: In many countries, they stayed open for children of essential workers, and outbreaks appeared rare. Two flares in Canadian day cares—one in Toronto, and one outside of Montreal—led to temporary closures. In Texas, where overall cases have skyrocketed, at least 894 preschool staff and 441 children across 883 facilities have tested positive, according to news reports. That’s up from 210 total cases just a few weeks ago.
So - not enough is known. It may be possible to avoid community spread with elementary - but maybe not. For older kids? Community spread is very likely.
So what do you do? Open elementary schools but keep Middle/High Schools closed?
-
Ask your school district for the following inevitable issues:
1. What is the protocol when 1, 5, 10, or 25 students test positive?
2. What is the protocol when 1, 5, 10, or 25 teachers test positive?
If they don't have solid answers to those questions, they aren't ready.
-
Ask your school district for the following inevitable issues:
1. What is the protocol when 1, 5, 10, or 25 students test positive?
2. What is the protocol when 1, 5, 10, or 25 teachers test positive?
If they don't have solid answers to those questions, they aren't ready.
Those questions are a great start, insofar as it relates to a specific school within the district. I would ask about how they will address positive tests in teachers, counselors, subs and other staff who regularly work at multiple schools within the district. And how they would address positive cases in kids who ride a school bus that stops at more than one school.
-
Biggest local school district choosing to go virtual for the first 9 weeks. But open to change if the arc of the virus changes.
https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids/grand-rapids-public-school-back-to-school-plan/
-
Here we have MLB, with all of their protocols, all of their cash, all of their instant access to fast-results testing, all of their other major advantages over Joe Public ... and they can't even get through the first few days of the season without a series of calamities that are forcing them to cancel multiple games ... and yet we have a president and other national "leaders" insisting that schools must open fully for in-person education?
Really?
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't let my kid go to school under these conditions. And I know that if I were a teacher, administrator, aide or any other kind of support staff I would not work.
"My level of concern went from about an 8 to a 12," Nationals manager Dave Martinez said. "I mean, this thing really hits home now. I got guys in our clubhouse that are really concerned as well."
COVID-19 doesn't care if you are rich or poor, if you are a famous athlete or one of a million teachers. It's an equal-opportunity destroyer.
Everybody to school!
If you get sick, guru's witch doctor will cure you, anyway.
-
The great educator Betsy DeVos said it is safe. Who are you to question someone with her knowledge?
-
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/882316641/what-parents-can-learn-from-child-care-centers-that-stayed-open-during-lockdowns?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
-
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/882316641/what-parents-can-learn-from-child-care-centers-that-stayed-open-during-lockdowns?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
This is good stuff. And it reinforces the thought that the problems will likely be more with older children in school and not preschool or elementary age.
-
This is good stuff. And it reinforces the thought that the problems will likely be more with older children in school and not preschool or elementary age.
Absolutely! Hopefully as kids get into middle school and high school they are a little more compliant and agreeable to wearing masks, washing hands etc
-
This is good stuff. And it reinforces the thought that the problems will likely be more with older children in school and not preschool or elementary age.
It does show promise, but I'm not sure how many schools have enough teachers to run anywhere close to the 9:1 ratio and maintain the strict separation of classes, as described in the article. Maybe if middle and high schools do exclusively distance learning with larger than normal classes to free up some teachers, and then move some of those teachers to elementary?
Of course, then the parents of middle and high school students would be upset.
Tough situation....
-
This is good stuff. And it reinforces the thought that the problems will likely be more with older children in school and not preschool or elementary age.
Yeah, family and friends who work as grade school teachers say they're far less concerned about the younger kids sticking with masks and social distancing than the middle schoolers.
-
Yeah, family and friends who work as grade school teachers say they're far less concerned about the younger kids sticking with masks and social distancing than the middle schoolers.
Agreed. My wife works with middle schoolers. When I asked if she thought they would be good about wearing masks if they go back to the classroom, she just gave a cynical laugh.
She knows they won't learn as much online, but she is not excited about being a guinea pig in an experiment destined to fail.
-
Nearly 300 Florida high school graduates told to quarantine after attending an outdoor graduation 300 Florida high school graduates told to quarantine after attending an outdoor graduation
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/us/florida-high-school-graduation-coronavirus-trnd/index.html
Bayside High School in Palm Bay, Florida, held an outdoor graduation ceremony for seniors last Saturday, an event that appeared to mostly adhere to coronavirus safety guidelines.
However, someone who attended the event tested positive for the coronavirus shortly after the ceremony, said Anita Stremmel, assistant director of the Florida Department of Health in Brevard County. The school district informed the health department, which confirmed the result in a lab test.
-
Nearly 300 Florida high school graduates told to quarantine after attending an outdoor graduation 300 Florida high school graduates told to quarantine after attending an outdoor graduation
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/us/florida-high-school-graduation-coronavirus-trnd/index.html
Bayside High School in Palm Bay, Florida, held an outdoor graduation ceremony for seniors last Saturday, an event that appeared to mostly adhere to coronavirus safety guidelines.
However, someone who attended the event tested positive for the coronavirus shortly after the ceremony, said Anita Stremmel, assistant director of the Florida Department of Health in Brevard County. The school district informed the health department, which confirmed the result in a lab test.
Yeah but the person who tested positive didn't get it at the event.
-
Bayside High School
Wasn't that the "second" high school in Saved by the Bell?
-
Illinois just pushed football, soccer and volleyball seasons to the spring, and lots of districts that had planned to have kids on campus to start the school year are reversing course and shifting to online classes only.
-
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/bill-gates-says-schools-should-reopen-despite-covid-19
Mr Gates is a yes vote for killing teachers. What a jerk
-
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMms2024920?query=TOC
-
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/bill-gates-says-schools-should-reopen-despite-covid-19
Mr Gates is a yes vote for killing teachers. What a jerk
What? Can you read? Or is your reading limited to headlines.
"if you can protect the teachers as well"
“As you get up to age, like, 13 and higher, then you’ll have to look at your locale to decide what you’ll do with high schools,” Gates said. “And if they’re not in, then you have to put massive effort into trying to get there to be continued learning online.”
-
What? Can you read? Or is your reading limited to headlines.
"if you can protect the teachers as well"
“As you get up to age, like, 13 and higher, then you’ll have to look at your locale to decide what you’ll do with high schools,” Gates said. “And if they’re not in, then you have to put massive effort into trying to get there to be continued learning online.”
Yup, read the whole article numb nuts. Don’t remember myself or any poster every suggesting schools should open without protocols in place to help keep both teachers and students as protected as possible.
In a response to MU82 when he was talking about Charlotte starting virtual, I agreed and said if Covid is running rampant in their community they have every right in conjunction with the “votes” of the parents in the community to start virtual. It was then that one of you boomers suggested I was voting to kill teachers.
My argument from the beginning is that it should be a community by community decision with input from all parties taken into account.
So me and big willy are 100% aligned. Can you read?
-
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/bill-gates-says-schools-should-reopen-despite-covid-19
Mr Gates is a yes vote for killing teachers. What a jerk
Do you read? Gates said the exact opposite of what you claim.
Sorry, Rocky. Saw your post after I posted mine.
-
Jamie is getting feisty!
-
My argument from the beginning is that it should be a community by community decision with input from all parties taken into account.
Your argument of making decisions on a community by community basis is why we are still in the first wave of the epidemic.
-
Jamie is getting feisty!
Only reading the headline and not realizing that the contents actually disprove your argument? Seems familiar.
-
Your argument of making decisions on a community by community basis is why we are still in the first wave of the epidemic.
Agreed. State/county/city control is great for many things, but handling a global pandemic is not one of them.
-
Agreed. State/county/city control is great for many things, but handling a global pandemic is not one of them.
And it’s ok to agree to disagree on that.
The fact many of you can’t see how Bill Gates position on school reopening is the exact same as what a few of us have been advocating for which led to many of you saying we are in favor of killing teachers so we can ship off kids off to school to have someone else watch them suggests how clouded and partisan your viewpoint has become on everything Covid.
-
And it’s ok to agree to disagree on that.
The fact many of you can’t see how Bill Gates position on school reopening is the exact same as what a few of us have been advocating for which led to many of you saying we are in favor of killing teachers so we can ship off kids off to school to have someone else watch them suggests how clouded and partisan your viewpoint has become on everything Covid.
You said - and I quote: “Mr Gates is a yes vote for killing teachers.”
You are a liar!
-
And it’s ok to agree to disagree on that.
The fact many of you can’t see how Bill Gates position on school reopening is the exact same as what a few of us have been advocating for which led to many of you saying we are in favor of killing teachers so we can ship off kids off to school to have someone else watch them suggests how clouded and partisan your viewpoint has become on everything Covid.
You did not initially state anything about safety for teachers. Your initial stated position was only reopen schools. That equates to putting teachers in harms way. After more back and forth you added the precautions and what not. That equates to what bill gates was saying and also does not equate to "killing teachers".
You're making a false equivalency here.
-
You said - and I quote: “Mr Gates is a yes vote for killing teachers.”
You are a liar!
Yikes, should have put it in teal. Thought it was obvious enough that I didn’t need to.
The point was that he’s in favor of schools opening safely, which i argued for as well a couple weeks ago. I was then called a teacher killer by you I believe, so was just trying to connect the dots for you. Obviously unsuccessfully.
-
You did not initially state anything about safety for teachers. Your initial stated position was only reopen schools. That equates to putting teachers in harms way. After more back and forth you added the precautions and what not. That equates to what bill gates was saying and also does not equate to "killing teachers".
You're making a false equivalency here.
What moron would suggest opening schools in the middle of a pandemic without safety protocols in place.
Again didn’t know I needed to explain that when I initially advocated for opening schools. When I realized it needed further explanation I then went into detail some of my expectations and details of what are district is doing.
Never once did I post open schools with zero safety measures in place.
-
What moron would suggest opening schools in the middle of a pandemic without safety protocols in place.
Well there was this guy that doesn't seem to address any safety protocols at the school or district level, and only suggests that some kids shouldn't attend and that others should explore the idea of additional short term living situations.
Our school district has already announced they are going back to school in the fall with normal 5 day a week face to face learning. The results of the survey sent a couple weeks ago was over 95% in favor of that.
The very very very, obnoxiously very vocal few posters on here who are straight doom and gloom are thankfully few and far between outside of the scoop world.
The district is allowing for folks like that to opt out and participate in a ramped up e-learning program and they can readdress their family situation every trimester.
There are legitimate medical reasons for kids who are battling heartbreaking illnesses who should not put themselves at increased risk by attending school and I hate that they have to go through that isolation on top of everything else they’re battling, not fair at all. But as many of you already said, if you are a young healthy child you will be just fine.
If you are a high risk parent and are concerned about having your kids bring the virus home. I would suggest putting your kids development and needs first and allow them to get back with their buddies at school and possibly think about finding a short term rental/extended stay hotel to protect yourself. None of the scenarios are great and require sacrifice from someone but as a parent I put the needs of my kids first and foremost and I believe it’s best for them to be back in school.
-
Well there was this guy that doesn't seem to address any safety protocols at the school or district level, and only suggests that some kids shouldn't attend and that others should explore the idea of additional short term living situations.
There's also that word normal. Which to me reads as zero safety measures unless the school's normal day to day was pandemic prepared
-
Well there was this guy that doesn't seem to address any safety protocols at the school or district level, and only suggests that some kids shouldn't attend and that others should explore the idea of additional short term living situations.
Right, and I went on to explain the safety measures that were announced by the district and that I supported whole heartedly from the beginning.
Not sure what you’re trying to prove here.
-
There's also that word normal. Which to me reads as zero safety measures unless the school's normal day to day was pandemic prepared
Well you interrupted it wrong then and are purposely ignoring the other posts where I explain in more detail the safety expectations.
Normal on that post was in regards to 5 days a week, full day, face to face learning. I think you know that.
-
Well you interrupted interpreted it wrong then and are purposely ignoring the other posts where I explain in more detail the safety expectations.
Normal on that post was in regards to 5 days a week, full day, face to face learning. I think you know that.
First, fixed it for you. Second, as I said before (see in bold and underlined), after some back and forth you clarified. The issue is you're trying to draw an equivalency to the reaction to your initial post before you clarified that "normal" isn't in fact "normal"
You did not initially state anything about safety for teachers. Your initial stated position was only reopen schools. That equates to putting teachers in harms way. After more back and forth you added the precautions and what not. That equates to what bill gates was saying and also does not equate to "killing teachers".
You're making a false equivalency here.
-
Right, and I went on to explain the safety measures that were announced by the district and that I supported whole heartedly from the beginning.
Not sure what you’re trying to prove here.
That your first post on this thread was more of a flaunt about how your district was opening up face to face without mentioning any safety measures that were to be taken. Comes off a bit ignorant and certainly disqualifies you from this statement.
Never once did I post open schools with zero safety measures in place.
You clearly did.
-
First, fixed it for you. Second, as I said before, after some back and forth you clarified. The issue is you're trying to draw an equivalency to the reaction to your initial post before you clarified that "normal" isn't in fact "normal"
Good lord, now we got the grammar police.
You are trying to tell me what I meant by normal. I’m now telling you want I actually meant which still seems obvious when I look back at the context of that post yet you’re still telling me that’s not what I meant.
Not sure what else to tell you other then you’re wrong in what you think I meant.
-
Not sure what else to tell you other then you’re wrong in what you think I meant.
Mr Gates is a yes vote for killing teachers. What a jerk
-
Good lord, now we got the grammar police.
You are trying to tell me what I meant by normal. I’m now telling you want I actually meant which still seems obvious when I look back at the context of that post yet you’re still telling me that’s not what I meant.
Not sure what else to tell you other then you’re wrong in what you think I meant.
Well I would hope that a Marquette educated individual would appreciate a bit of help if they make a big typo. Not like I'm telling you where to put commas.
I never told you what you meant by normal, I am telling you what normal means by definition and clearly that isn't what you meant so it was a poor word choice that you're just trying to defend it as others people's issue with interpretation. If I was the only one who responded and is now arguing this I'd understand but loads of people did so clearly you missed the intended mark.
If I say "I went to a crowded pub last night and things were back to normal" does that mean I'm going in with a mask on, at a fraction of capacity, distancing from strangers, and sanitizing my hands after every surface I touch? or does it mean I went to a pub had a beer with buddies, shot pool, played darts chatted with strangers, listened to the band, etc?
If you are still offended by the reaction the bottom line is you have no one to blame but yourself for the choice of words.
-
Our school district hasn't made the call yet .. they punted until next week after a 6 hour school board meeting.
Needless to say, a chunk of people are FURIOUS that it's likely the district won't go 5-days a week in-person.
Great comment on Facebook .. something like .. "The district is in desperate need to line up substitute teachers this year. For all those who are eager to open up the schools fully, you are invited to apply ..."
-
That your first post on this thread was more of a flaunt about how your district was opening up face to face without mentioning any safety measures that were to be taken. Comes off a bit ignorant and certainly disqualifies you from this statement.
You clearly did.
My first post was in response and consistent with how this thread started. How are districts handing in-person, virtual, or hybrid schooling options.
Conversation was not at that point about specific safety measures but it veered that way later on. Which is when I posted what I believe were necessary and appropriate steps to be taken for in person learning. Hards_ even came up with some great ideas that I took to the district for consideration.
By taking one post and spinning it to suggest I once advocated for no safety measures in school is not accurate or fair.
-
Well I would hope that a Marquette educated individual would appreciate a bit of help if they make a big typo. Not like I'm telling you where to put commas.
I never told you what you meant by normal, I am telling you what normal means by definition and clearly that isn't what you meant so it was a poor word choice that you're just trying to defend it as others people's issue with interpretation. If I was the only one who responded and is now arguing this I'd understand but loads of people did so clearly you missed the intended mark.
If I say "I went to a crowded pub last night and things were back to normal" does that mean I'm going in with a mask on, at a fraction of capacity, distancing from strangers, and sanitizing my hands after every surface I touch? or does it mean I went to a pub had a beer with buddies, shot pool, played darts chatted with strangers, listened to the band, etc?
If you are still offended by the reaction the bottom line is you have no one to blame but yourself for the choice of words.
You hoped wrong. Most people understand posts on scoop are made in between far more important daily activities and rarely proof read for mistakes so I could not care less if I have or I see a spelling mistake, grammatical error, or gasp....a word was auto corrected in that doesn’t make sense.
As a MU graduate I would hope you’d have more common sense then that.
My post said our district was returning to a “normal 5 day a week face to face learning option with ramped up online courses being available”. The context of that sentence itself alludes to normal being used as a clarifying word to what the avenue of learning would be. Normal face to face, online, or hybrid.
I’m glad I had a chance to walk you through that again though.
-
You hoped wrong. Most people understand posts on scoop are made in between far more important daily activities and rarely proof read for mistakes so I could not care less if I have or I see a spelling mistake, grammatical error, or gasp....a word was auto corrected in that doesn’t make sense.
As a MU graduate I would hope you’d have more common sense then that.
My post said our district was returning to a “normal 5 day a week face to face learning option with ramped up online courses being available”. The context of that sentence itself alludes to normal being used as a clarifying word to what the avenue of learning would be. Normal face to face, online, or hybrid.
I’m glad I had a chance to walk you through that again though.
Come on cents then edd it ting Yur gram are? I apologize then for that.
It absolutely does not. That sentence to me reads as either you're in school as normal prior to covid, or you stay home, there's zero alluding to preventative measures. You also didn't answer my analogy. How does "I went to the pub like normal" read? Again, use better words if you want the benefit of the doubt.
-
Hold up, is Bill Gates the authority on education, epidemiology, and public safety now?
I thought he was just a rich guy who runs a MNC.
huh, guess I need to reevaluate.
-
Hold up, is Bill Gates the authority on education, epidemiology, and public safety now?
I thought he was just a rich guy who runs a MNC.
huh, guess I need to reevaluate.
Considering he's the guy who unleashed the virus, I'd say he's an authority.
-
Come on cents then edd it ting Yur gram are? I apologize then for that.
It absolutely does not. That sentence to me reads as either you're in school as normal prior to covid, or you stay home, there's zero alluding to preventative measures. You also didn't answer my analogy. How does "I went to the pub like normal" read? Again, use better words if you want the benefit of the doubt.
It reads to me like you think it would and should.
But if it that same comment was made on a thread talking about going to a bar in person, virtually, or a mix of both I would read going to a bar “as normal” as meaning actually physically going to the bar and wouldn’t then jump to the conclusion of that patron or bar not taking necessary steps to do it safely.
-
Hold up, is Bill Gates the authority on education, epidemiology, and public safety now?
I thought he was just a rich guy who runs a MNC.
huh, guess I need to reevaluate.
Bill Gates is a technological genius, brilliant businessman and a great philanthropist.
But in terms of epidemiology, education, etc, he's a layman who has read a bunch and has his own opinions. He certainly means well, but his opinions are no more valid than anyone else.
-
Trump: COVID is no big deal 99 percent of the time. We need to fully open schools ASAP.
Also Trump: This pandemic is so dangerous we need to postpone the election.
-
It reads to me like you think it would and should.
But if it that same comment was made on a thread talking about going to a bar in person, virtually, or a mix of both I would read going to a bar “as normal” as meaning actually physically going to the bar and wouldn’t then jump to the conclusion of that patron or bar not taking necessary steps to do it safely.
When you say "normal", and don't follow it up with "while taking necessary steps to do it safely"... then I'm going to take normal to mean normal.
It wasn't jumping to conclusions, it was taking you at your word. If you feel differently now, that is fine. Just say that so we can all move on either way.
-
Considering he's the guy who unleashed the virus, I'd say he's an authority.
Don't be so stupid.
Fauci unleashed the virus; Gates is using it to chip people.
-
When you say "normal", and don't follow it up with "while taking necessary steps to do it safely"... then I'm going to take normal to mean normal.
It wasn't jumping to conclusions, it was taking you at your word. If you feel differently now, that is fine. Just say that so we can all move on either way.
Last word....I win
-
Last word....I win
;D
-
Does anyone else remember in the beginning of the whole COVID thing, when all the data showed that kids were a major vector of asymptomatic spread?
Suddenly we are using epidemiology information, of children under strict quarantine. The only population that can't decide for themselves to violate quarantine, to prove that they don't spread.
Data from the camp in Georgia seems to reconfirm the original data, that kids are a rampant source of asymptomatic spread.
-
Does anyone else remember in the beginning of the whole COVID thing, when all the data showed that kids were a major vector of asymptomatic spread?
Suddenly we are using epidemiology information, of children under strict quarantine. The only population that can't decide for themselves to violate quarantine, to prove that they don't spread.
Data from the camp in Georgia seems to reconfirm the original data, that kids are a rampant source of asymptomatic spread.
Agreed. For those who haven't read about the GA camp outbreak:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/31/health/coronavirus-children-camp.html
The camp implemented several precautionary measures against the virus, but stopped short of requiring campers to wear masks. The virus blazed through the community of about 600 campers and counselors, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported on Friday.
The staff and counselors gathered at the overnight camp in late June. Within a week of the camp orientation, a teenage counselor developed chills and went home.
The camp, which the C.D.C. did not name, started sending campers home the next day, and shut down a few days later. By then, 76 percent of the 344 campers and staffers whose test results were available to C.D.C. researchers had been infected with the virus — nearly half the camp.
--------------------
And schools are about to open...with many districts making masks 'recommended, but not required'? Yikes!
-
Agreed. For those who haven't read about the GA camp outbreak:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/31/health/coronavirus-children-camp.html
The camp implemented several precautionary measures against the virus, but stopped short of requiring campers to wear masks. The virus blazed through the community of about 600 campers and counselors, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported on Friday.
The staff and counselors gathered at the overnight camp in late June. Within a week of the camp orientation, a teenage counselor developed chills and went home.
The camp, which the C.D.C. did not name, started sending campers home the next day, and shut down a few days later. By then, 76 percent of the 344 campers and staffers whose test results were available to C.D.C. researchers had been infected with the virus — nearly half the camp.
--------------------
And schools are about to open...with many districts making masks 'recommended, but not required'? Yikes!
What is incredibly frustrating about this is, the 1918 pandemic was largely spread by army camps. Yes, this pandemic isn’t as deadly but the lessons should still apply. Good lord this is nauseating
-
(https://images2.imgbox.com/c2/be/OJy8rNRH_o.png)[/URL]
-
(https://images2.imgbox.com/c2/be/OJy8rNRH_o.png)[/URL]
If you ask those who support return to school, they say they aren't worried about the kids because this doesn't really impact kids.
As Americans, we seem to lack basic understanding of spread of disease.
The issue isn't the kids getting sick. It's them spreading the disease through communities.
-
Equally mindblowing of getting 260 kids infected at camp is .. they (of course) sent them HOME to infect even more people.
What a cluster-f.
-
Equally mindblowing of getting 260 kids infected at camp is .. they (of course) sent them HOME to infect even more people.
What a cluster-f.
Even more equally mind blowing is hundreds of parents willfully sending their kids of in the middle of a pandemic. In a state in the middle of a spike.
Where are Social Services when you actually need them?
-
If you ask those who support return to school, they say they aren't worried about the kids because this doesn't really impact kids.
As Americans, we seem to lack basic understanding of spread of disease.
The issue isn't the kids getting sick. It's them spreading the disease through communities.
This impacts everyone but I support the return to school. I would love for all of us to stay home and isolated but how would society survive without essential services. School is an essential service. If its not, why make it mandatory.
Unfortunately, I have to go to work. I have to pay the bills. I am not privileged or rich to be able to hire tutors to teach my kids. The upper and upper middle class has the luxury of mommy or daddy staying home with the kids to teach them or paying tutors to teach their kids while they work from home no less. What about the poor. The families with a single parent who has to go work at the grocery store, or Amazon or food production/packaging plants, etc. that provides you and everyone else food and entertainment, that can't afford to stay home. There are kids whose only meal is what they get at school. Kids with learning disabilities that need to go to school. The rich can opt out and not miss a beat. Remote learning does not work for a large population of parents.
How about we actually figure out creative ways to provide in person education in a safe manner. Temp checks. 6 feet of social distancing in classes. Plexiglass to protect the teachers. Year round school with alternating days or weeks so there is in school learning. Keeping kids in smaller pods and separated so when someone test positive and well the virus does virus and we will have positive cases, we quickly isolate the few. Masks and shields when in class. For those that have health issues they can opt out and hopefully they don't get left behind. These are just some ideas. I am sure there are better more creative ideas that would work but this stay home and isolate for months and possibly years is not the answer.
There are ways to make in person schooling work.
-
This impacts everyone but I support the return to school. I would love for all of us to stay home and isolated but how would society survive without essential services. School is an essential service. If its not, why make it mandatory.
Unfortunately, I have to go to work. I have to pay the bills. I am not privileged or rich to be able to hire tutors to teach my kids. The upper and upper middle class has the luxury of mommy or daddy staying home with the kids to teach them or paying tutors to teach their kids while they work from home no less. What about the poor. The families with a single parent who has to go work at the grocery store, or Amazon or food production/packaging plants, etc. that provides you and everyone else food and entertainment, that can't afford to stay home. There are kids whose only meal is what they get at school. Kids with learning disabilities that need to go to school. The rich can opt out and not miss a beat. Remote learning does not work for a large population of parents.
How about we actually figure out creative ways to provide in person education in a safe manner. Temp checks. 6 feet of social distancing in classes. Plexiglass to protect the teachers. Year round school with alternating days or weeks so there is in school learning. Keeping kids in smaller pods and separated so when someone test positive and well the virus does virus and we will have positive cases, we quickly isolate the few. Masks and shields when in class. For those that have health issues they can opt out and hopefully they don't get left behind. These are just some ideas. I am sure there are better more creative ideas that would work but this stay home and isolate for months and possibly years is not the answer.
There are ways to make in person schooling work.
I agree with you.
But I just don’t think local districts have the leadership or money to do a lot of these things.
-
I agree with you.
But I just don’t think local districts have the leadership or money to do a lot of these things.
Agreed. In-person schooling would be great if we could provide all the appropriate safety measures. We can’t, and neither the local districts nor the states have the money to do it. The only way we could do it is with appropriate federal funding and leadership, and I’m not holding my breath for that to happen.
Because school districts don’t have the resources to provide appropriate safeguards, I think kids should be schooled from home, if only to prevent a catastrophic outbreak even before the fall flu season hits.
-
Agreed. In-person schooling would be great if we could provide all the appropriate safety measures. We can’t, and neither the local districts nor the states have the money to do it. The only way we could do it is with appropriate federal funding and leadership, and I’m not holding my breath for that to happen.
Because school districts don’t have the resources to provide appropriate safeguards, I think kids should be schooled from home, if only to prevent a catastrophic outbreak even before the fall flu season hits.
I also mean leadership at the district level. Some of the things I’m hearing from my teacher friends and relatives is ... interesting.
-
I also mean leadership at the district level. Some of the things I’m hearing from my teacher friends and relatives is ... interesting.
Agreed. The federal government would need to provide funding and direction, but it couldn’t go very far if we didn’t have good leadership at the district level as well. In the absence of both, staying home is the best option. It sucks but that’s what it is.
-
I agree with you.
But I just don’t think local districts have the leadership or money to do a lot of these things.
Someone on my Facebook feed shared a post where an elementary school teacher created dividers between her students made up of pvc pipe and clear shower curtains. It cost less than $100 for the entire class setup.
If my kids were still school-age, I would gladly pay for the entire classroom. I realize that not every grade school class may have that type of parent, but even in total, that is a rounding error for your typical school district.
-
Someone on my Facebook feed shared a post where an elementary school teacher created dividers between her students made up of pvc pipe and clear shower curtains. It cost less than $100 for the entire class setup.
If my kids were still school-age, I would gladly pay for the entire classroom. I realize that not every grade school class may have that type of parent, but even in total, that is a rounding error for your typical school district.
Well the post I was quoting talked about things like year round school. Which means you have to pay the teachers more.
-
I know some school districts have started up .. I've seen a few pics of classrooms, lunchrooms, recess .. want to see more .. but the ones shared on Facebook are preposterously sad. The plexiglas dividers .. lunchrooms with one kid per table .. recess with each kid 10 feet from the next.
As learning environments go .. it's a joke. A good chunk of kids don't really like school in the first place .. a ton more are going to hate those types of learning conditions.
-
I know some school districts have started up .. I've seen a few pics of classrooms, lunchrooms, recess .. want to see more .. but the ones shared on Facebook are preposterously sad. The plexiglas dividers .. lunchrooms with one kid per table .. recess with each kid 10 feet from the next.
As learning environments go .. it's a joke. A good chunk of kids don't really like school in the first place .. a ton more are going to hate those types of learning conditions.
Yep. Hopefully it’s just for a semester.
-
Someone on my Facebook feed shared a post where an elementary school teacher created dividers between her students made up of pvc pipe and clear shower curtains. It cost less than $100 for the entire class setup.
If my kids were still school-age, I would gladly pay for the entire classroom. I realize that not every grade school class may have that type of parent, but even in total, that is a rounding error for your typical school district.
Why is a teacher paying for that? Why should the responsibility fall on her financially or otherwise? Sad
-
Well the post I was quoting talked about things like year round school. Which means you have to pay the teachers more.
School should have moved to year round ever since we moved away from being an agrarian society decades ago.
But ya know, tradition and all.
-
Why is a teacher paying for that? Why should the responsibility fall on her financially or otherwise? Sad
Unfortunately, it's the state of education in much of America today. My wife works in a middle school in a relatively wealthy school district...and the teachers still often have to pay for some pretty basic stuff out of pocket. It truly is depressing.
-
Unfortunately, it's the state of education in much of America today. My wife works in a middle school in a relatively wealthy school district...and the teachers still often have to pay for some pretty basic stuff out of pocket. It truly is depressing.
So do the teacher’s parents.
-
Why is a teacher paying for that? Why should the responsibility fall on her financially or otherwise? Sad
Because that's what teachers do.
My wife is a teacher and everytime at tax time I ask why'd you buy this or that and it'd always something she needs but the district won't buy or doesn't have the budget for.
-
Because that's what teachers do.
My wife is a teacher and everytime at tax time I ask why'd you buy this or that and it'd always something she needs but the district won't buy or doesn't have the budget for.
Ex-wife was a teacher. Same thing. Lot of teachers out there spending their own money to enhance the classroom experience
-
Ex-wife was a teacher. Same thing. Lot of teachers out there spending their own money to enhance the classroom experience
And that's sad. Failure everywhere.
-
My wife is a teacher too .. she buys stuff .. honestly, she could "expense" a lot of it .. but often it's just easier to pay for it ourselves. I'm all right with that.
$250 teacher deduction on tax form .. helps.
-
Ex-wife was a teacher. Same thing. Lot of teachers out there spending their own money to enhance the classroom experience
Can confirm. My wife has a huge classroom library. She bought every item in it.
-
My wife is a teacher too .. she buys stuff .. honestly, she could "expense" a lot of it .. but often it's just easier to pay for it ourselves. I'm all right with that.
$250 teacher deduction on tax form .. helps.
Was the tax deduction reduced recently?
-
Was the tax deduction reduced recently?
No the Republicans wanted to in the 2018 bill but it ended up the same. My wife usually goes well over it.
-
No the Republicans wanted to in the 2018 bill but it ended up the same. My wife usually goes well over it.
My mom and sisters too.
Still unfortunate that they need to do that.
-
No the Republicans wanted to in the 2018 bill but it ended up the same. My wife Every teacher usually goes well over it.
FIFY
-
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
Surprised to see this link hasn’t been posted yet. Fauci supports community by community decision making when it comes to reopening schools.
But as I was told, that line of thinking is why we’re still in this mess. Could just be another instance of Fauci getting it wrong I suppose.
-
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
Surprised to see this link hasn’t been posted yet. Fauci supports community by community decision making when it comes to reopening schools.
But as I was told, that line of thinking is why we’re still in this mess. Could just be another instance of Fauci getting it wrong I suppose.
I don’t believe anyone has said there needs to be a one size fits all. However, when the individual communities ignore the science and recklessly re-open too early, that’s where the issues come in.
-
I don’t believe anyone has said there needs to be a one size Fitzy s all. However, when the individual communities ignore the science and recklessly re-open too early, that’s where the issues come in.
Many people have, over and over and over again.
-
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
Surprised to see this link hasn’t been posted yet. Fauci supports community by community decision making when it comes to reopening schools.
But as I was told, that line of thinking is why we’re still in this mess. Could just be another instance of Fauci getting it wrong I suppose.
He also said "The primary consideration should always be the safety, the health of the welfare of the children, as well as the teachers and the secondary effects for spreading (to) the parents and other family members.”
Unfortunately, health and welfare is not always the “primary consideration.” Just look at all the schools have reopened with masks “optional“ for students.
-
He also said "The primary consideration should always be the safety, the health of the welfare of the children, as well as the teachers and the secondary effects for spreading (to) the parents and other family members.”
Unfortunately, health and welfare is not always the “primary consideration.” Just look at all the schools have reopened with masks “optional“ for students.
I can only speak for Wisconsin but that optional mask thing has been taken care of.
So assuming all school districts follow the governors mandate and they enact other safety measures to mitigate risk are you comfortable with schools reopening?
-
I can only speak for Wisconsin but that optional mask thing has been taken care of.
So assuming all school districts follow the governors mandate and they enact other safety measures to mitigate risk are you comfortable with schools reopening?
It depends on what you consider 'other safety measures'.
Just to be clear, we have learned that 'safety' involves not just measures taken within a given entity, but also the conditions in the community where the steps are taken. Given Fauci's statement that safety is the 'primary consideration', districts can't exclusively consider safety measure in the schools; they also need to consider the pervasiveness of the virus in the community. Therefore, safety considerations for school districts must also include declining community spread and a low community positivity rate - ideally under 5%.
If school districts follow all those principles for safely opening schools, then of course I would support their decision.
Regrettably, many school districts that have already opened skirted over the mask issue, and altogether ignored the community spread.
-
It depends on what you consider 'other safety measures'.
Just to be clear, we have learned that 'safety' involves not just measures taken within a given entity, but also the conditions in the community where the steps are taken. Given Fauci's statement that safety is the 'primary consideration', districts can't exclusively consider safety measure in the schools; they also need to consider the pervasiveness of the virus in the community. Therefore, safety considerations for school districts must also include declining community spread and a low community positivity rate - ideally under 5%.
If school districts follow all those principles for safely opening schools, then of course I would support their decision.
Regrettably, many school districts that have already opened skirted over the mask issue, and altogether ignored the community spread.
Agree with the last part. I’ve already seen stores/sheriffs incorrectly citing the 4th amendment and HIPAA that they can’t ask if you have a medical condition. Basically, they are saying if you don’t wear a mask, we will assume you have a medical condition. So just because there is a mask mandate, it doesn’t mean it will be enforced.
-
Agree with the last part. I’ve already seen stores/sheriffs incorrectly citing the 4th amendment and HIPAA that they can’t ask if you have a medical condition. Basically, they are saying if you don’t wear a mask, we will assume you have a medical condition. So just because there is a mask mandate, it doesn’t mean it will be enforced.
The lack of understanding – or the knowing misrepresentation - of HIPAA in this country is absolutely staggering.
-
It depends on what you consider 'other safety measures'.
Just to be clear, we have learned that 'safety' involves not just measures taken within a given entity, but also the conditions in the community where the steps are taken. Given Fauci's statement that safety is the 'primary consideration', districts can't exclusively consider safety measure in the schools; they also need to consider the pervasiveness of the virus in the community. Therefore, safety considerations for school districts must also include declining community spread and a low community positivity rate - ideally under 5%.
If school districts follow all those principles for safely opening schools, then of course I would support their decision.
Regrettably, many school districts that have already opened skirted over the mask issue, and altogether ignored the community spread.
👍👍
-
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
Surprised to see this link hasn’t been posted yet. Fauci supports community by community decision making when it comes to reopening schools.
But as I was told, that line of thinking is why we’re still in this mess. Could just be another instance of Fauci getting it wrong I suppose.
Maybe I scanned the article too quickly, but nowhere did I see Fauci saying it should be a community-by-community decision. He is saying that in order to reopen safely, universities need to take proper precautions and test. He is not saying, so far as I can see, that colleges should have random and differing standards for when students return as various states and communities did for reopening.
I do disagree with Fauci on one thing here, that he, Birx, and the epidemiologist I've referenced several times all seem to have in common: they all give their opinions with the expectation that Americans are going to act in a responsible manner. What evidence in the last 5 months makes them think people will act responsibly? Particularly college-age kids?
They seem to come at this with a science-based optimism that "of course people will do the right thing" while ignoring the human behavior exhibited so far.
-
Maybe I scanned the article too quickly, but nowhere did I see Fauci saying it should be a community-by-community decision. He is saying that in order to reopen safely, universities need to take proper precautions and test. He is not saying, so far as I can see, that colleges should have random and differing standards for when students return as various states and communities did for reopening.
I do disagree with Fauci on one thing here, that he, Birx, and the epidemiologist I've referenced several times all seem to have in common: they all give their opinions with the expectation that Americans are going to act in a responsible manner. What evidence in the last 5 months makes them think people will act responsibly? Particularly college-age kids?
They seem to come at this with a science-based optimism that "of course people will do the right thing" while ignoring the human behavior exhibited so far.
I listened to the entirety of the press conference as it was part of the CT governors periodic virus briefing. The point he was trying to make to Nutmeggers was that the local conditions matter, we have a very low level of spread and that we should try to open schools. Also he was agreeing with the metrics based approach to pause/reevaluate that the governor started with in his presentation. Finally, there was a lot of dialog about prior S Gottleib statements underlying this because he has helped with the reopening plan.
End of day the discussion was building off the concept of collective level of spread and reassuring CT residents that we are in a position to take a shot at opening schools in the fall.
-
I listened to the entirety of the press conference as it was part of the CT governors periodic virus briefing. The point he was trying to make to Nutmeggers was that the local conditions matter, we have a very low level of spread and that we should try to open schools. Also he was agreeing with the metrics based approach to pause/reevaluate that the governor started with in his presentation. Finally, there was a lot of dialog about prior S Gottleib statements underlying this because he has helped with the reopening plan.
End of day the discussion was building off the concept of collective level of spread and reassuring CT residents that we are in a position to take a shot at opening schools in the fall.
I was going to share until my day job got in the way. Interesting stuff from the Dr.
https://www.ctinsider.com/news/coronavirus/nhregister/article/Fauci-to-join-Lamont-in-daily-COVID-briefing-15454508.php?sid=5baaacf72ddf9c545d737065&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CT_NHR_Insider
Fauci: CT could avoid COVID resurgence
By Kaitlyn Krasselt By Kaitlyn Krasselt Aug. 3, 2020 Updated: Aug. 3, 2020 7:31 p.m
Connecticut is “in a good place” when it comes to controlling the COVID-19 virus and is unlikely to see a resurgence if the state continues its vigilance in adhering to protocols like mask wearing and mitigating crowds, according to the nation’s top infectious-disease doctor, Dr. Anthony Fauci.
Joining Gov. Ned Lamont during the state’s daily coronavirus update Monday, Fauci had continued optimism that a vaccine would be approved by the end of this year and widely distributed by the second half of 2021, as he informed Connecticut residents that they can already take part in phase three clinical trials for a potential drug.
“The numbers are really indicative that you’re in a situation that you now, in many respects, have the upper hand because you have such a low rate that when you do get new cases, you have the capability of containment as opposed to mitigation,” Fauci said. “The other thing I heard from the governor that I’m very pleased with is that despite favorable numbers, you’re not pulling back on your vigilance in making sure you don’t have a resurgence of cases that would put you back rather than stay where you are and going forward.”
Fauci’s appearance comes after months of relatively few media appearances and reports from the New York Times and other outlets that the White House muzzled Fauci, though Fauci later denied that on MSNBC.
Connecticut has consistently led the country in maintaining a low positivity rate for new coronavirus cases and hospitalizations, despite being an early hot spot for the virus.
While Fauci used the state as an example — applauding the state’s approach to containing and mitigating the spread — even Connecticut has seen protests from groups opposed to mask wearing and social distancing, and who say the virus is a hoax. But Fauci was clear: any reports that mask wearing is ineffective, “are untrue and misleading.”
Fauci, who testified before Congress with other health officials on Friday, again appeared hopeful about the development of a COVID-19 vaccine by the end of the year and getting the virus under control if Americans are vigilant about wearing masks and avoiding crowds.
Fauci said there are several vaccine candidates and two have entered into stage 3 clinical trials — that means thousands of people across the country will test the potential vaccines at 89 clinical trial sites across the country. Connecticut residents can find a trial site in the state and sign up to participate at coronaviruspreventionnetwork.org, Fauci said.
“Clearly we have at least cautious optimism,” Fauci said.
Lamont announced during the briefing a set of metrics for school districts to use in determine the level of in-person learning that will be safe for the upcoming year. While schools should be prepared to change course, it appears every district in the state is in a position to open for as much in-person learning as possible. Fauci said schools should try to open for in-person learning as much as possible.
Fauci emphasized universal mask wearing, continued avoidance of crowds, maintaining six feet of social distancing wherever possible, vigilant hand washing, and staying outdoors as much as possible
And “Stay away from bars,” Fauci said. “I know that’s difficult from an economic standpoint, but that’s a big spreader of infection.”
“Just those five or six things are very important and you have been successful in containing outbreaks as well as preventing the resurgences,” he said.
In February, Fauci appeared on the podcast of Community Health Center Inc., a Connecticut based provider of primary health care services for the uninsured and underserved.
kkrasselt@hearstmediact.com; 203-842-2563; @kaitlynkrasselt
-
Our school district .. after two ~6 hour board meetings .. voted for a split in-person method, half the students going Mon/Tues, half Thurs/Fri, plus a virtual option for families who desire that.
During the public comment, there were teachers who spoke for the entire teachers association .. all were against in-person classes, and a survey with 25% saying they would resign, retire, take FMLA leaves, or require WFH due to health issues.
One of the criteria for starting in-person classes is having enough staff -- It's entirely possible the teachers 'veto' the decision for in-person classes.
-
Our school district .. after two ~6 hour board meetings .. voted for a split in-person method, half the students going Mon/Tues, half Thurs/Fri, plus a virtual option for families who desire that.
During the public comment, there were teachers who spoke for the entire teachers association .. all were against in-person classes, and a survey with 25% saying they would resign, retire, take FMLA leaves, or require WFH due to health issues.
One of the criteria for starting in-person classes is having enough staff -- It's entirely possible the teachers 'veto' the decision for in-person classes.
My wife has spoken to many teachers in our district who will retire if there are in-person classes. Most are in the 60-70 age range, and were still teaching just for the love of it. It would be a shame, but I don't blame them. FWIW, they comprise over 20% of our full-time teachers, so we would very likely have a shortage.
And I know we don't have enough bus drivers. They have been a bit short-staffed for years and have many second-career retirees, but it has clearly gotten worse. There are signs advertising for school bus drivers all over town.
-
What's the status of COVID liability exemptions these days?
It would seem to be a perfect setup for education professionals. COVID starts in March, teacher X is healthy for 7 months, then are ordered to teach in-person and bang, they have COVID, and a clear link to a workplace illness.
-
What's the status of COVID liability exemptions these days?
It would seem to be a perfect setup for education professionals. COVID starts in March, teacher X is healthy for 7 months, then are ordered to teach in-person and bang, they have COVID, and a clear link to a workplace illness.
Republican senators are trying to get that into the next relief package. CARES v2
-
Our District's face to face plan is a joke. There are so many 'where feasible' statements and so many things not addressed. And I question how they can enact some of the stuff in their plan from a financial and staffing perspective. It remains to be seen if they start with any in person classes but my kids will be starting out with a virtual option.
-
Our District's face to face plan is a joke. There are so many 'where feasible' statements and so many things not addressed. And I question how they can enact some of the stuff in their plan from a financial and staffing perspective. It remains to be seen if they start with any in person classes but my kids will be starting out with a virtual option.
This is along the same lines as my thought process. Some of the more gung-ho about face to face posters have said that as long as there is a plan in place, kids should go back. It's not that simple, the plan has to be both effective and feasible. Now granted I'm not going around analyzing every plan that I can get my hands on, but I have yet to see one that has what I would consider adequate procedures regarding the protocols for what students will do when one or multiple teachers tests positive.
-
This is along the same lines as my thought process. Some of the more gung-ho about face to face posters have said that as long as there is a plan in place, kids should go back. It's not that simple, the plan has to be both effective and feasible. Now granted I'm not going around analyzing every plan that I can get my hands on, but I have yet to see one that has what I would consider adequate procedures regarding the protocols for what students will do when one or multiple teachers tests positive.
Our districts plan is to isolate, quarantine that individual for 14 days and then contact trace.
What else can really be done?
-
Our districts plan is to isolate, quarantine that individual for 14 days and then contact trace.
What else can really be done?
I get the sense that you didn't really read my entire post, let me highlight the important part.
Now granted I'm not going around analyzing every plan that I can get my hands on, but I have yet to see one that has what I would consider adequate procedures regarding the protocols for what students will do when one or multiple teachers tests positive.
Isolating the teacher is fine and all, although I think it is unrealistically optimistic to think that all teachers that tests positive would be in a position to resume teaching in 14 days. The problem is what to do with their students.
Considering there's already a shortage of substitute teachers, and I would bet a significant number of the one's remaining will be choosing to not teach, since many are just retired teachers that would be in a higher risk age group, and just combining classes to give the load to another teacher is the opposite of what should be done. I've really only seen vague answers to how this will be tackled, and just hoping that the issue doesn't arise is terribly naive, but not surprising.
-
Our Catholic grade school has said that teachers that test positive will be given the opportunity virtually teach from home (if they're asymptomatic and up to the task). We're close with a number of teachers at the school and it is remarkable how determined the teachers are to get back in the building and make this work. A tremendous amount of positive energy matched with an incredible amount of precaution and risk mitigation.
-
Our Catholic grade school has said that teachers that test positive will be given the opportunity virtually teach from home (if they're asymptomatic and up to the task). We're close with a number of teachers at the school and it is remarkable how determined the teachers are to get back in the building and make this work. A tremendous amount of positive energy matched with an incredible amount of precaution and risk mitigation.
Does this also apply if a student tests positive and the teacher was potentially exposed?
If so, it would potentially mitigate the teacher shortage at your school. However, it could also cause a lot of switching back and forth between in-person and online learning - essentially flip-flopping back and forth whenever the teacher or a student in the class tests positive. As much as teachers might be motivated to do that, I wonder if it might be more disruptive to education than just continuous online learning.
Not claiming it would be, but I have to wonder.
-
Does this also apply if a student tests positive and the teacher was potentially exposed?
If so, it would potentially mitigate the teacher shortage at your school. However, it could also cause a lot of switching back and forth between in-person and online learning - essentially flip-flopping back and forth whenever the teacher or a student in the class tests positive. As much as teachers might be motivated to do that, I wonder if it might be more disruptive to education than just continuous online learning.
Not claiming it would be, but I have to wonder.
In that case they are initially saying they will work with our local health department to determine via exposure level if the student's cohort or entire class needs to be put into Q, at which point some or all will be taught virtually. Each classroom is being set up with a stream for virtual learning for kids who are out.
This may all fall apart after a few weeks but the school admin, teachers and parents have worked together to do everything possible to get back in person safely. Masks, distance, regular hand sanitizing, no changing classrooms etc. are all being done.
-
In that case they are initially saying they will work with our local health department to determine via exposure level if the student's cohort or entire class needs to be put into Q, at which point some or all will be taught virtually. Each classroom is being set up with a stream for virtual learning for kids who are out.
This may all fall apart after a few weeks but the school admin, teachers and parents have worked together to do everything possible to get back in person safely. Masks, distance, regular hand sanitizing, no changing classrooms etc. are all being done.
Should be interesting to watch. Glad to see they have a plan for this and are taking all the in-school precautions mentioned in your last sentence.
The 'mask optional' schools (most I have read about are in the South) are just disasters waiting to happen.
-
Does this also apply if a student tests positive and the teacher was potentially exposed?
If so, it would potentially mitigate the teacher shortage at your school. However, it could also cause a lot of switching back and forth between in-person and online learning - essentially flip-flopping back and forth whenever the teacher or a student in the class tests positive. As much as teachers might be motivated to do that, I wonder if it might be more disruptive to education than just continuous online learning.
Not claiming it would be, but I have to wonder.
The general rule is you have to come in close contact with someone with Covid (within six feet for 15 minutes) for someone to need to quarantine.
-
In that case they are initially saying they will work with our local health department to determine via exposure level if the student's cohort or entire class needs to be put into Q, at which point some or all will be taught virtually. Each classroom is being set up with a stream for virtual learning for kids who are out.
This may all fall apart after a few weeks but the school admin, teachers and parents have worked together to do everything possible to get back in person safely. Masks, distance, regular hand sanitizing, no changing classrooms etc. are all being done.
I think the uncertainty of it all makes things worse for the average family. If you know you have to plan for virtual learning for a semester/year, you can start to make concrete plans. But sudden 14-day quarantines, of which there could be numerous, creates an inability to plan, and sudden stress/pressure on family planning situations.
The sudden stress/pressure will create more general problems in terms of child care, but also stress the family system, potentially leading to more abuse and issues.
Not to mention the cost that was incurred to set up the hybrid learning system.
I think there was sufficient data to indicate that the best plan was virtual only.
-
Our Catholic grade school has said that teachers that test positive will be given the opportunity virtually teach from home (if they're asymptomatic and up to the task). We're close with a number of teachers at the school and it is remarkable how determined the teachers are to get back in the building and make this work. A tremendous amount of positive energy matched with an incredible amount of precaution and risk mitigation.
Same here in my public school. Starting out face to face with options to teach virtually and learn virtually if sick or uncomfortable with being face to face. Must commit to virtual learning for a quarter though. also changing the schedules at the HS to go to blocks to reduce the amount of time in crowded spaces.
Hopefully the school installed the lights that kill viruses over the summer
-
Same here in my public school. Starting out face to face with options to teach virtually and learn virtually if sick or uncomfortable with being face to face. Must commit to virtual learning for a quarter though. also changing the schedules at the HS to go to blocks to reduce the amount of time in crowded spaces.
Hopefully the school installed the lights that kill viruses over the summer
That's a clever idea I hadn't even considered, do that and get the HEPPA air filters, and repaint using anti bacterial paint. Then you're looking at some potential for going back.
-
Same here in my public school. Starting out face to face with options to teach virtually and learn virtually if sick or uncomfortable with being face to face. Must commit to virtual learning for a quarter though. also changing the schedules at the HS to go to blocks to reduce the amount of time in crowded spaces.
Hopefully the school installed the lights that kill viruses over the summer
Installing UV-lights to disinfect rooms could be quite costly. You would need some rewiring for new lighting (not cheap especially in older building), but for safety reasons you'd need to install multiple fail-safe mechanisms, e.g. motion sensors that inactivate the UV-lighting, warning lighting outside rooms, I'd actually argue for a search-light mechanism. Where you have to hit one button to activate the switch, then on a 30-second delay (to search the room), a second switch at the door to turn it on.
The door would also need to have an automated lock system to ensure that once the system is on, one cannot re-enter the room without disabling the system.
Bottom line, although it would help, the safety requirements would be cost-prohibitive.
-
Honestly, if I was superintendent of a school district, I'd say we are doing virtual learning until October, and then we will reevaluate. By October, we should see what works and what doesn't.
-
The general rule is you have to come in close contact with someone with Covid (within six feet for 15 minutes) for someone to need to quarantine.
If a student tests positive and they are with the same teacher for an entire school day, it would seem quite likely that the teacher (and many of the other students) would meet those criteria every time. In fact, it would be hard to believe they wouldn't.
-
If a student tests positive and they are with the same teacher for an entire school day, it would seem quite likely that the teacher (and many of the other students) would meet those criteria every time. In fact, it would be hard to believe they wouldn't.
If masks are being worn, it doesn't count as an exposure. At least that is what I have been led to believe, in a technical sense.
-
If a student tests positive and they are with the same teacher for an entire school day, it would seem quite likely that the teacher (and many of the other students) would meet those criteria every time. In fact, it would be hard to believe they wouldn't.
It depends. If they are a teacher that is standing in front of the class (more likley a high school teacher), and everyone else is masked and distanced properly, then no, they wouldn't need to quarantine.
-
It depends. If they are a teacher that is standing in front of the class (more likley a high school teacher), and everyone else is masked and distanced properly, then no, they wouldn't need to quarantine.
I think you are being a little linear. I know the guidance is 6 ft, etc, but from what i read it will greatly depends on airflow, size of room and a variety of other factors and isnt really foolproof. I think schools will have to figure this out, but getting out the measuring tape probably isn't going to cut it.
Personally, I would pursue the cheap/lower sensitivity daily rapid test. It would cut down complexity and would eliminate ambiguity.
-
I think you are being a little linear. I know the guidance is 6 ft, etc, but from what i read it will greatly depends on airflow, size of room and a variety of other factors and isnt really foolproof. I think schools will have to figure this out, but getting out the measuring tape probably isn't going to cut it.
Personally, I would pursue the cheap/lower sensitivity daily rapid test. It would cut down complexity and would eliminate ambiguity.
Do you really think local school districts are going to measure the airflow of each classroom and pay for daily testing?
I have been working on these types of issues for weeks now on our campus. I am definitely NOT saying that everyone else is the classroom is safe, but just that you shouldn't have to automatically quarantine a teacher because one student in the class tests positive. No college or school district is going to operate by that standard because it would quickly become impossible.
Look, every school district and college campus is going to have positives. It is impossible to completely keep it out. The issue is how do we properly balance risk factors and mitigate spread.
-
Do you really think local school districts are going to measure the airflow of each classroom and pay for daily testing?
I have been working on these types of issues for weeks now on our campus. I am definitely NOT saying that everyone else is the classroom is safe, but just that you shouldn't have to automatically quarantine a teacher because one student in the class tests positive. No college or school district is going to operate by that standard because it would quickly become impossible.
Look, every school district and college campus is going to have positives. It is impossible to completely keep it out. The issue is how do we properly balance risk factors and mitigate spread.
No I don’t expect them to measure the airflow. But it’s not shocking that schools would err on the side of caution. Realistically you would find out pretty quick if erring on the side of 6’ works or doesn’t. Probably within a week and if it went a detrimental way it would not be good in my opinion.
-
It depends. If they are a teacher that is standing in front of the class (more likley a high school teacher), and everyone else is masked and distanced properly, then no, they wouldn't need to quarantine.
If a teacher is just standing in the front of the class lecturing, it hardly seems worth the risk of sending kids back to school. After all, isn't the lack of direct interaction one of the biggest objections to the quality of online classes? Is seeing a person at a distance really all that much better than watching the same person on a screen?
ETA: And what about younger kids? It is hardly realistic to expect elementary and maybe even middle school kids to sit in place while a teacher lectures at a distance. In those cases, if there is any real learning happening at all, it would seem to require closer interaction...and perhaps a rebuttable presumption that everyone was within 6 feet of the infected person.
-
If a teacher is just standing in the front of the class lecturing, it hardly seems worth the risk of sending kids back to school. After all, isn't the lack of direct interaction one of the biggest objections to the quality of online classes? Is seeing a person at a distance really all that much better than watching the same person on a screen?
ETA: And what about younger kids? It is hardly realistic to expect elementary and maybe even middle school kids to sit in place while a teacher lectures at a distance. In those cases, if there is any real learning happening at all, it would seem to require closer interaction...and perhaps a rebuttable presumption that everyone was within 6 feet of the infected person.
I don't recall my teachers in middle or high school doing much more than standing in the front of the class. They certainly weren't regularly less than six feet from me. And I do think that is still a better learning environment than virtual.
Elementary is different I grant you that.
-
.
-
I don't recall my teachers in middle or high school doing much more than standing in the front of the class. They certainly weren't regularly less than six feet from me. And I do think that is still a better learning environment than virtual.
Elementary is different I grant you that.
For discussion purposes, let's assume this is all true.
Most of what I have seen seems focused on getting elementary school kids back sooner and more comprehensively, and maybe going more slowly (or alternate days) with the older kids. This is certainly the case in these places I found in a random Google search:
https://www.hngnews.com/cambridge_deerfield/article_8955caa6-8f05-5029-a9d8-4f5499ebe1ad.html
https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/education/2020/08/05/somerville-schools-reopening-plan-includes-5-days-person-some/5572160002/
https://www.wausaudailyherald.com/story/news/2020/08/04/d-c-everest-schools-opening-district-eyes-mix-person-virtual-classes-amid-covid-19-pandemic/3289658001/
But if younger kids require closer contact while older kids can learn in-school from teachers at a distance, are those school districts (and many others) getting it backwards?
-
But if younger kids require closer contact while older kids can learn in-school from teachers at a distance, are those school districts (and many others) getting it backwards?
From an infection rate standpoint, almost certainly. But its really about childcare issues. If the younger kids are home, parents aren't working.
-
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and I've spent a good amount of time researching air filtration and UV lights and their potential to help with COVID.
Short Answer: Maybe air filters and UVC helps. Might as well.
The big question is about the virus and is it in the air for a few seconds then drop to the floor, or does dwell and is therefore "airborne." Some say yes, some say no.
The whole "it drops to the floor" concept is why we have the 6 foot distancing rule. In theory, someone sprays out the virus as they speak, it drops to the ground in 6 feet, problem solved.
If it instead floats around, then air filters can help. HEPA filters go down to .01 micron, and COVID is .125, so yay for that.
Most HVACs have MERV 8-11-14 filters. Guess what .. MERV 14 only goes down to .3, so .. COVID could slip right through. I don't think HEPA filters are common in HVAC instals.
Enter UV-C lighting. It's really not that expensive. For $100 a consumer can attach one to their HVAC -- I've done this personally. It's a bit of a mystery if the air molecules spend enough time in the duct where the UV-C bulb is to destroy the virus, but for $100 I'll gamble on that.
Industrial air handlers can have large, multi-bulb UVC bulbs, 3 feet long that COVID would get zapped. Again, not super expensive.
Interestingly, it appears the best option would be "Upper Room UVC" .. basically, you mount a UVC lightbox on each wall, high above the room. The box has slats, so the UVC rays only go straight across the top of the room. You can flip them on all day long, with people below, and it creates a zone of virus death near the top of the room. (* Certain ceiling paints and other obstacles can be too reflective and cause eye strain for below, so .. gotta watch for that.)
This is used in Tuberculosis clinic waiting rooms in countries TB is prevalent. The UVC Upper Room lightboxes are not that expensive and are easily retro-fitted onto walls.
In conclusion .. that's what I'd be installing in classrooms. And Arby's.
-
I’ve seen it brainstormed, but how has outdoor instruction not gained more traction?
-
I’ve seen it brainstormed, but how has outdoor instruction not gained more traction?
My 2 cents is because it requires additional resources to do in any successful manner, and we already see what a sh!t job we do supporting our teachers' needs already. Also, what do you do in Wisconsin when the weather invariably goes south fairly quickly? It's not impossible, and as such should get full consideration, but there are a lot of logistical issues as well as inequities for schools without adequate outdoor amenities
-
My 2 cents is because it requires additional resources to do in any successful manner, and we already see what a sh!t job we do supporting our teachers' needs already. Also, what do you do in Wisconsin when the weather invariably goes south fairly quickly? It's not impossible, and as such should get full consideration, but there are a lot of logistical issues as well as inequities for schools without adequate outdoor amenities
I get all that, but everyone (parents, teachers, principals, and ultimately students), are being flexible as possible. If I got 24 hours notice I could send my 1st grader for a day of “in person” instruction on the playground, hell yeah I would do that. And honestly, I’ll take my chances of my kid not getting struck my lightening in a storm versus getting COVID in a 500 sq classroom.
-
I’ve seen it brainstormed, but how has outdoor instruction not gained more traction?
I've heard mention of it and think it would be great in the early part of the school year. But I'm guessing our District won't do it.
One shocker from last week's school board meeting for our District was the talk of buying some special cleaner for buses that costs $100,000 - not sure where they plan on getting the funding for that. And I get to watch another board meeting online next week since our District still hasn't finalized a plan for the fall - oh joy. At least watching online versus being there in person I can drink beer while I watch it :).
-
I've heard mention of it and think it would be great in the early part of the school year. But I'm guessing our District won't do it.
One shocker from last week's school board meeting for our District was the talk of buying some special cleaner for buses that costs $100,000 - not sure where they plan on getting the funding for that. And I get to watch another board meeting online next week since our District still hasn't finalized a plan for the fall - oh joy. At least watching online versus being there in person I can drink beer while I watch it :).
Why is the meeting online?
-
I’ve seen it brainstormed, but how has outdoor instruction not gained more traction?
For the month and a half it would be doable?
-
Why is the meeting online?
The meeting is an in person meeting - didn't explain myself well as usual :). But I have no desire to go be around a lot of people in person right now and with how long the last one dragged out talking about non-important things too I was glad to be watching from home. And since I don't think they'll be allowing parents to speak at the meeting, there's really no reason I need to attend in person.
-
The meeting is an in person meeting - didn't explain myself well as usual :). But I have no desire to go be around a lot of people in person right now and with how long the last one dragged out talking about non-important things too I was glad to be watching from home. And since I don't think they'll be allowing parents to speak at the meeting, there's really no reason I need to attend in person.
Thanks for the reply.
-
I've heard mention of it and think it would be great in the early part of the school year. But I'm guessing our District won't do it.
One shocker from last week's school board meeting for our District was the talk of buying some special cleaner for buses that costs $100,000 - not sure where they plan on getting the funding for that. And I get to watch another board meeting online next week since our District still hasn't finalized a plan for the fall - oh joy. At least watching online versus being there in person I can drink beer while I watch it :).
$100,000 is obscene. We run 30+ minibuses on a daily basis and our cleaning needs have not exceeded $10,000. Also, we're 5 months into doing this.
-
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and I've spent a good amount of time researching air filtration and UV lights and their potential to help with COVID.
Short Answer: Maybe air filters and UVC helps. Might as well.
The big question is about the virus and is it in the air for a few seconds then drop to the floor, or does dwell and is therefore "airborne." Some say yes, some say no.
The whole "it drops to the floor" concept is why we have the 6 foot distancing rule. In theory, someone sprays out the virus as they speak, it drops to the ground in 6 feet, problem solved.
If it instead floats around, then air filters can help. HEPA filters go down to .01 micron, and COVID is .125, so yay for that.
Most HVACs have MERV 8-11-14 filters. Guess what .. MERV 14 only goes down to .3, so .. COVID could slip right through. I don't think HEPA filters are common in HVAC instals.
Enter UV-C lighting. It's really not that expensive. For $100 a consumer can attach one to their HVAC -- I've done this personally. It's a bit of a mystery if the air molecules spend enough time in the duct where the UV-C bulb is to destroy the virus, but for $100 I'll gamble on that.
Industrial air handlers can have large, multi-bulb UVC bulbs, 3 feet long that COVID would get zapped. Again, not super expensive.
Interestingly, it appears the best option would be "Upper Room UVC" .. basically, you mount a UVC lightbox on each wall, high above the room. The box has slats, so the UVC rays only go straight across the top of the room. You can flip them on all day long, with people below, and it creates a zone of virus death near the top of the room. (* Certain ceiling paints and other obstacles can be too reflective and cause eye strain for below, so .. gotta watch for that.)
This is used in Tuberculosis clinic waiting rooms in countries TB is prevalent. The UVC Upper Room lightboxes are not that expensive and are easily retro-fitted onto walls.
In conclusion .. that's what I'd be installing in classrooms. And Arby's.
I have no idea why such a cheap and effective solution hasn't gained more traction. Additionally, I also don't know why UVC isn't used more frequently in places like cruise ships, bathrooms at airports, etc.
-
I have no idea why such a cheap and effective solution hasn't gained more traction. Additionally, I also don't know why UVC isn't used more frequently in places like cruise ships, bathrooms at airports, etc.
Agree. I imagine within X years (5? 10?) UVC will be standard everywhere as the globe becomes more virus aware.
There's also a newly discovered "UVC-FAR" which is a light source that kills viruses but it can't penetrate skin or eyes. This means no safety issues, you can put it everywhere, airports, offices, hallways, cruise ships and blast away 24/7. (Obviously, they need to test the hell out of those claims.)
-
Yes, I know it's Buzzfeed, but this should scare everyone.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county
-
Yes, I know it's Buzzfeed, but this should scare everyone.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county
Buzzfeed news is an extremely reputable source. They aren't the same thing as Buzzfeed... but they are owned by them.
They've won multiple publishing awards and been nominated for Pulitzers.
-
Schools already cracking down...on inadvertent whistleblowers
https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/video/student-suspended-showing-fellow-students-masks-72209309
-
Buzzfeed news is an extremely reputable source. They aren't the same thing as Buzzfeed... but they are owned by them.
They've won multiple publishing awards and been nominated for Pulitzers.
Yeah, they've got some good people working there now, I just can't get over that it's Buzzfeed.
-
Schools already cracking down...on inadvertent whistleblowers
https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/video/student-suspended-showing-fellow-students-masks-72209309
Let 'em die.
-
Yes, I know it's Buzzfeed, but this should scare everyone.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county
So much for social distancing....
-
Agree. I imagine within X years (5? 10?) UVC will be standard everywhere as the globe becomes more virus aware.
There's also a newly discovered "UVC-FAR" which is a light source that kills viruses but it can't penetrate skin or eyes. This means no safety issues, you can put it everywhere, airports, offices, hallways, cruise ships and blast away 24/7. (Obviously, they need to test the hell out of those claims.)
I will note that I was unaware of how safe far-UVC light actually is. Your eyes would still be sensitive, but overall seems to be little health risk.
My "safety" post previously was largely in relation to UV-A and UV-B light, that I know a lot about. I had falsely assumed that UV-C would be more dangerous, because it is higher energy. I should have thought about the fact that the UV-C range is absorbed strongly by proteins, and hence will not penetrate the body really at all, making it safer, even though higher energy and it being ionizing radiation.
I'm intrigued by the possibilities of UV-C, now. Thanks for the comments, learn something new everyday.
-
Charlotte Mecklenburg Schools, the largest district in NC, has decided there will be no high school sports this fall.
No announcement yet on any kind of alternative, such such as moving football and other fall sports to spring as Virginia and Maryland have already decided to do.
Bummer for those kids, but it's about more than them. Coaches, officials, support personnel, parents. And there already is no in-person school for the fall semester at public schools here.
-
I will note that I was unaware of how safe far-UVC light actually is. Your eyes would still be sensitive, but overall seems to be little health risk.
My "safety" post previously was largely in relation to UV-A and UV-B light, that I know a lot about. I had falsely assumed that UV-C would be more dangerous, because it is higher energy. I should have thought about the fact that the UV-C range is absorbed strongly by proteins, and hence will not penetrate the body really at all, making it safer, even though higher energy and it being ionizing radiation.
I'm intrigued by the possibilities of UV-C, now. Thanks for the comments, learn something new everyday.
UVC can certainly still give you a severe radiation burn (sunburn for those that don't know), and they can make you blind. Best place to hide them is ventilation for this reason. Or they are tripped to off when a door opens, or only run when buildings are locked.
-
UVC can certainly still give you a severe radiation burn (sunburn for those that don't know), and they can make you blind. Best place to hide them is ventilation for this reason. Or they are tripped to off when a door opens, or only run when buildings are locked.
That is what I had thought also, but looked into it some. While it can still cause serious eye damage and blindness, the radiation burn part appears to not be strongly supported.
It appears that due to the strong absorbance by proteins, that the penetration depth is too low to cause any actual cellular damage. I'd personally still take precautions for skin, until there are a lot more studies on safety, but am intrigued by the possibilities. Especially, because dose is important. High dosages are still going to penetrate deep enough to cause damage. The question is where is the safety threshold.
And agree on your safety recommendations.
-
Schools already cracking down...on inadvertent whistleblowers
https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/video/student-suspended-showing-fellow-students-masks-72209309
This might be the saddest thing I read today.
Talk about shooting the messenger. Wow.
-
This might be the saddest thing I read today.
Talk about shooting the messenger. Wow.
To be fair, need to teach these kids early in life that whistleblowers are bad and should be punished
-
My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together).
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.
-
My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together).
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.
What does she teach? So will she have to do simultaneous in-class and virtual?
-
My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together).
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.
Interesting. Hope all goes well, especially for your wife. Keep us posted.
-
What does she teach? So will she have to do simultaneous in-class and virtual?
She's a high school art teacher. She will not have to "reserve time" for the other group when teaching in person. But I know she will be deluged with answering emails at home at the end of each day. Her district starts the last week of August.
-
My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together).
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.
The way I understood a lot of the push to open schools was related to the economy, and the difficulty of child care forcing people to not work. I don't see how 2-day a week school helps that matter.
Also, sanitizing the building for an entire day is really a feel good measure. It doesn't live that long on surfaces, and they would be exposed to dirty surfaces the 2 days they are at school.
Not sure how these types of plans, which are very common, are actually helping.
-
The way I understood a lot of the push to open schools was related to the economy, and the difficulty of child care forcing people to not work. I don't see how 2-day a week school helps that matter.
Also, sanitizing the building for an entire day is really a feel good measure. It doesn't live that long on surfaces, and they would be exposed to dirty surfaces the 2 days they are at school.
Not sure how these types of plans, which are very common, are actually helping.
Absolutely. Throughout this pandemic, I've learned a lot about what people think is 'clean' and what isn't. Also what they think needs to be clean and what doesn't need to be clean. We employ average Americans (IMO) and I have to remind people very frequently to imagine they have cheetoh dust on their fingers when they come into contact with others. Anything you touch between the interaction has cheetoh dust on it until it is washed. Touching a surface, then washing your hands without wiping down that surface and then touching that surface... well you've just wasted time washing your hands. Covid is sticky like cheetoh dust.
Same thing with mask hygiene. A damp mask is soaked in bacteria and other microorganisms. Touching the front of your mask gets those on to your hands. So if you're taking the mask on and off a lot and not being EXTREMELY careful, you could easily pass your grossness to others. A good rule is that if you adjust your mask, you wash your hands, or use hand sanitizer before touching anything else.
Similar rules for gloves (don't get me started about how generally unnecessary they are). If you touch your face or your mask and then something else... you've just contaminated that surface.
I could go on and on about how poor of a job most people do with simple things like hand washing, but I'm sure I'd just be pointing out the obvious to most people here.
-
https://mississippitoday.org/2020/08/06/mississippi-teachers-death-during-first-week-of-school-stokes-covid-19-outbreak-fears/
High School teacher and football coach dies, presumably from COVID. Was working with students in practices all summer, up until he had to quarantine.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bogs4NY/status/1291759750242344961
What is he thinking!?!? 🤬🤬
-
My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together).
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.
This is our district's schedule as well, plus a full virtual option for families who want to stay home.
It confounds me to think of the virtual end results. I know what it was like in April .. pre-made videos, occasional live sessions.
It is absolutely bonkers to think that you can mount a camera in the ceiling and have a teacher give a lecture to kids on the internet. The audio and video quality will likely be crap unless you have someone running the camera, etc.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bogs4NY/status/1291759750242344961
What is he thinking!?!? 🤬🤬
Well, did you say we should open? Maybe you guys think a lot more alike than you'd like to admit.
-
My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together).
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.
This is our district's schedule as well, plus a full virtual option for families who want to stay home.
It confounds me to think of the virtual end results. I know what it was like in April .. pre-made videos, occasional live sessions.
It is absolutely bonkers to think that you can mount a camera in the ceiling and have a teacher give a lecture to kids on the internet. The audio and video quality will likely be crap unless you have someone running the camera, etc.
Questions for both of you (and others as their plans roll out):
1. Are masks 100% mandatory for all students and staff?
2. Is there a routine testing plan?
3. If a student or teacher tests positive, are all close contacts tested and quarantined?
And for any of those questions - if not, why not?
-
What do you mean by a "routine testing plan?"
-
What do you mean by a "routine testing plan?"
Randomly testing a predetermined percentage of the students and staff, with or without symptoms.
Ideally, it would be periodically testing everyone, but the cost would be astronomical. But testing before/without symptoms is the only way to have a chance to keep a small outbreak from becoming a huge one...especially since many of the kids would be asymptomatic, but could still be spreading the virus.
-
Randomly testing a predetermined percentage of the students and staff, with or without symptoms.
Ideally, it would be periodically testing everyone, but the cost would be astronomical. But testing before/without symptoms is the only way to have a chance to keep a small outbreak from becoming a huge one...especially since many of the kids would be asymptomatic, but could still be spreading the virus.
My understanding from talking with some public health people is that sentinel testing like this is largely a waste of money when you have community spread. So you test someone, it's negative (assuming they get a quick turnaround), but then they go home and catch it from a family member. Or you test five of 20 people in a classroom, but it's two that you didn't test who have it.
I'm not saying it doesn't have some benefit, but I would argue that resources would be better spent elsewhere.
-
Florida state authorities told schools they would need health department approval to keep classrooms closed.
Then they ordered health departments
not to give it.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200807/health-directors-told-to-keep-quiet-as-fla-leaders-pressed-to-reopen-classrooms
-
Florida state authorities told schools they would need health department approval to keep classrooms closed.
Then they ordered health departments
not to give it.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200807/health-directors-told-to-keep-quiet-as-fla-leaders-pressed-to-reopen-classrooms
Either I'm having a serious case of deja vu or someone posted this earlier...
-
My understanding from talking with some public health people is that sentinel testing like this is largely a waste of money when you have community spread. So you test someone, it's negative (assuming they get a quick turnaround), but then they go home and catch it from a family member. Or you test five of 20 people in a classroom, but it's two that you didn't test who have it.
I'm not saying it doesn't have some benefit, but I would argue that resources would be better spent elsewhere.
That is a fair point...but the cost/benefit really depends on factors like the state's current prevalence and positivity rate. For example, if the positivity rate is higher, you'd have a better chance of 'stumbling' on a case at random.
So consider the south and west. Currently, every state (except LA) from SC to AZ/NV currently has a positivity rate between 12.3% to 20.9%...so you wouldn't have to run many tests before you'd stumble on a case and have a chance to cut off the spread. I'd use random testing in every one, plus any other state over 10%.
In contrast, where positivity rates are low (maybe <5%), there's a much better argument that it's a waste of money. So for example, places like VT (0.6%), CT (0.7%), ME (0.7%), NY (1.0%), NJ (1.6%), DC (2.0%), NH (2.1%), MI (2.5%), MA (2.7%), WV (2.9%), IL (4.0%), MN (4.6%) and MT (4.6%) can probably feel OK without random tests.
In between 5% and 10% it gets a little fuzzy, so I could see going either way. And of course, it gets more granular within states, which is where I see the benefit to local involvement.
Just my 0.02.
-
Either I'm having a serious case of deja vu or someone posted this earlier...
My apologies
-
That is a fair point...but the cost/benefit really depends on factors like the state's current prevalence and positivity rate. For example, if the positivity rate is higher, you'd have a better chance of 'stumbling' on a case at random.
So consider the south and west. Currently, every state (except LA) from SC to AZ/NV currently has a positivity rate between 12.3% to 20.9%...so you wouldn't have to run many tests before you'd stumble on a case and have a chance to cut off the spread. I'd use random testing in every one, plus any other state over 10%.
In contrast, where positivity rates are low (maybe <5%), there's a much better argument that it's a waste of money. So for example, places like VT (0.6%), CT (0.7%), ME (0.7%), NY (1.0%), NJ (1.6%), DC (2.0%), NH (2.1%), MI (2.5%), MA (2.7%), WV (2.9%), IL (4.0%), MN (4.6%) and MT (4.6%) can probably feel OK without random tests.
In between 5% and 10% it gets a little fuzzy, so I could see going either way. And of course, it gets more granular within states, which is where I see the benefit to local involvement.
Just my 0.02.
So I agree with you that sentinel testing is a good, overall public health strategy. I just don't think its a wise investment for a K-12 education system or a college / university which only have so much resources to spend.
-
My apologies
For the deja vu? Seems like my problem!
-
So I agree with you that sentinel testing is a good, overall public health strategy. I just don't think its a wise investment for a K-12 education system or a college / university which only have so much resources to spend.
Certainly not within the school districts’ normal budgets. But given that school is so inextricably linked to overall public health (and since some federal lawmakers are pushing so hard for schools to reopen), it would seem like a wise investment for lawmakers.
-
Florida state authorities told schools they would need health department approval to keep classrooms closed.
Then they ordered health departments
not to give it.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200807/health-directors-told-to-keep-quiet-as-fla-leaders-pressed-to-reopen-classrooms
Yossarian would have loved this.
-
Yossarian would have loved this.
;D
-
Florida state authorities told schools they would need health department approval to keep classrooms closed.
Then they ordered health departments
not to give it.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200807/health-directors-told-to-keep-quiet-as-fla-leaders-pressed-to-reopen-classrooms
Hillsboro county (Tampa, Fl) was just denied the ability to go virtual by the gov. Lawsuits when the first person be it teacher, child, or parent, dies.
-
Hillsboro county (Tampa, Fl) was just denied the ability to go virtual by the gov. Lawsuits when the first person be it teacher, child, or parent, dies.
I've always said I don't want to home school my kids. But I will home school them before I send them back to school this fall after seeing the really poor plan our District had for face to face learning to start the school year. Fortunately I think our District is either going to start Virtual for everyone or offer the Virtual option for parents who don't want to send their kids back in person right away.
-
Questions for both of you (and others as their plans roll out):
1. Are masks 100% mandatory for all students and staff?
2. Is there a routine testing plan?
3. If a student or teacher tests positive, are all close contacts tested and quarantined?
And for any of those questions - if not, why not?
1. Masks are mandatory to enter school for everyone. It should not be an issue because everywhere I go in Connecticut people are doing a good job wearing.
2. School is not handling testing They are asking everyone to self-temperature check at home before leaving for school. And if you feel sick in any way to stay home.
3. Yes, they are asking those who get sick to notify school. I believe they are asking those who were in contact to quarantine and get tested. Not sure of full details.
My kids worked the town summer camp which did open with strict protocols 7 weeks + another orientation week finished with no incidents. 1 week left to go.
-
Remember the Georgia High School Student recently suspended for sharing a photo online of packed hallways of students w/o masks?
You wouldn't believe that now 9 people there have tested positive for COVID-19 and counting:
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/people-test-positive-coronavirus-georgia-school-viral-crowded/story?id=72263772&__twitter_impression=true
-
Remember the Georgia High School Student recently suspended for sharing a photo online of packed hallways of students w/o masks?
You wouldn't believe that now 9 people there have tested positive for COVID-19 and counting:
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/people-test-positive-coronavirus-georgia-school-viral-crowded/story?id=72263772&__twitter_impression=true
I believe there were positives on their football team before the school year started too.
-
Remember the Georgia High School Student recently suspended for sharing a photo online of packed hallways of students w/o masks?
You wouldn't believe that now 9 people there have tested positive for COVID-19 and counting:
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/people-test-positive-coronavirus-georgia-school-viral-crowded/story?id=72263772&__twitter_impression=true
That suspension was reversed
-
Why do I keep seeing school administrators say it's impossible to enforce wearing of masks?
Don't they enforce dress codes all the time?
-
Teachers, backed by their union, don't want in-person instruction, hey?
-
Teachers, backed by their union, don't want in-person instruction, hey?
Or maybe they are skeptical that they are the next Covid experiment.
Or 1000 other complicated things that involve parents, teachers and local governments.
-
Or maybe they are skeptical that they are the next Covid experiment.
Or 1000 other complicated things that involve parents, teachers and local governments.
Not so complicated for private schools and their teachers, who are ready and willing to take on the vital task of educating kids again.
The phenomenon only applies to public education and unions which have ruined the quality.
-
Not so complicated for private schools and their teachers, who are ready and willing to take on the vital task of educating kids again.
The phenomenon only applies to public education and unions which have ruined the quality.
I know parents that have chosen to do virtual learning or home schooling. Is that the unions fault too?
-
I know parents that have chosen to do virtual learning or home schooling. Is that the unions fault too?
Parents are overwhelmingly in favor of reopening schools in southeastern WI. And we know this by survey responses sent out by school districts. Even in communities that are not conservative.
If a parent chooses not to send their kids because they don’t feel it’s safe, that’s their prerogative and their right. That has nothing to do with my point about unions.
-
Parents are overwhelmingly in favor of reopening schools in southeastern WI. And we know this by survey responses sent out by school districts. Even in communities that are not conservative.
If a parent chooses not to send their kids because they don’t feel it’s safe, that’s their prerogative and their right. That has nothing to do with my point about unions.
If the school union is preventing your school from opening then you certainly know more than me and I have no comment.
Just chanting UNIONS BAD though oversimplifies a complicated situation.
This is fundamentally a local issue of safety. In my state there is low spread, there is a plan and there is cajoling happing for parents and teachers to support the plan.
In my opinion the missteps, lack of planning and overly Optimistic assumptions every step of the way damaged a lot of trust that needs to be earned back everywhere.
-
That suspension was reversed
I’m aware.
-
Teachers, backed by their union, don't want in-person instruction, hey?
You're an idiot looking to start an argument.
-
Teachers, backed by their union, don't want in-person instruction, hey?
Area tooth doctor posts Islamophobic chain emails on a public message board but is too chicken to ever respond, hey?
-
To borrow from a different thread, teachers unions are the little unnamed leaves on the top of a two lb plate of nachos.
As it pertains to COVID and schools restarting.
-
You're an idiot looking to start an argument.
Takes one to know one. Right back at you liberal bro, aina?
-
1. Masks are mandatory to enter school for everyone. It should not be an issue because everywhere I go in Connecticut people are doing a good job wearing.
2. School is not handling testing They are asking everyone to self-temperature check at home before leaving for school. And if you feel sick in any way to stay home.
3. Yes, they are asking those who get sick to notify school. I believe they are asking those who were in contact to quarantine and get tested. Not sure of full details.
My kids worked the town summer camp which did open with strict protocols 7 weeks + another orientation week finished with no incidents. 1 week left to go.
Given the low prevalence and positivity rates in CT, that seems like a reasonable plan. I worry far more about those states where mask compliance has been sketchy, incidence and positivity rates are still high, and they are still allowing in-person schooling with masks optional.
It really blows my mind that so many people in places like FL, GA, TX, etc don't see the obvious connection....
-
Take one to know one. Right back at you liberal bro, aina?
At least he ain’t posting Islamophobic chain emails 🗣🗣🗣🗣
-
Not so complicated for private schools and their teachers, who are ready and willing to take on the vital task of educating kids again.
The phenomenon only applies to public education and unions which have ruined the quality.
I am amazed at the energy and excitement for reopening the schools from teachers / admin at SE Wisconsin Catholic schools. I was with several this weekend and they are passionate as hell. One got choked up and said: "Don't tell me I cannot do this...we've been planning for months, we have incredible protocols and measures in place. We can make this work."
-
Georgia school from that crowded hallway photo has now closed after six students and three staff members test positive for COVID.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/08/09/nine-people-test-positive-coronavirus-georgia-school-where-photos-packed-hallways-went-viral/
-
I am amazed at the energy and excitement for reopening the schools from teachers / admin at SE Wisconsin Catholic schools. I was with several this weekend and they are passionate as hell. One got choked up and said: "Don't tell me I cannot do this...we've been planning for months, we have incredible protocols and measures in place. We can make this work."
This .. befuddles me. I think we hear mostly from public school teachers .. in (your) village, 25% of them surveyed selected they'd resign, retire, FMLA, etc if forced to go in-person. My teacher wife is completely relieved her district is all virtual. Teacher organizations are rallying to fight in-person classes.
Now .. clearly that's not 100% of all teachers. One would figure XX% are as you observed, passionately awaiting being in the classroom.
So .. either your experiences are from self-selected pro-in-person teachers (or hand-selected by administrators for their excitement) .. or perhaps there's something about parochial teachers that make them more interested than their public school counterparts.
Thoughts?
-
This .. befuddles me. I think we hear mostly from public school teachers .. in (your) village, 25% of them surveyed selected they'd resign, retire, FMLA, etc if forced to go in-person. My teacher wife is completely relieved her district is all virtual. Teacher organizations are rallying to fight in-person classes.
Now .. clearly that's not 100% of all teachers. One would figure XX% are as you observed, passionately awaiting being in the classroom.
So .. either your experiences are from self-selected pro-in-person teachers (or hand-selected by administrators for their excitement) .. or perhaps there's something about parochial teachers that make them more interested than their public school counterparts.
Thoughts?
I think it has nothing to do with public/private union/nonunion, but rather political party lines. I know a number of private and public school teachers. The majority (maybe 65 ish percent think classes should be virtual. Those that want in person are Trump supporters.
Those that want schools open, also generally believe that COVID is a political issue, and we won't here about it anymore after November, and that all the news/concern is about politics, not a major health issue.
-
I will also reiterate that virtual teaching is far more difficult for the teacher. More work, same pay. People usually don't fight for more work unless there is a significant reason, like they actually fear the death/long-term illness of themselves or close family.
-
So .. either your experiences are from self-selected pro-in-person teachers (or hand-selected by administrators for their excitement) .. or perhaps there's something about parochial teachers that make them more interested than their public school counterparts.
Thoughts?
My gut reaction is that parochial school communities are less affected by the virus to date. They tend to have smaller class sizes which makes that aspect of the reopening plan safer off the bat. So by it’s nature easier to contain if your community has lower spread and you can social distance.
[note: broad brush but the lens I’m thinking through is more economic than any other attribute someone may call me out on]
The question I would have, related to these schools are not traditionally flush with extra cash—are they asking for more funding for PPE.
-
So .. either your experiences are from self-selected pro-in-person teachers (or hand-selected by administrators for their excitement) .. or perhaps there's something about parochial teachers that make them more interested than their public school counterparts.
Thoughts?
From my experience (wife is a teacher, neighbor is a teacher, both have discussed their colleagues), it's very much case-by-case. My wife was looking forward to being in the classroom with kids, providing she was comfortable with the safety precautions. But she has co-workers who for various reasons (mostly health-related) were not comfortable with being in a school building with 500 other people.
As much as some of the usual suspects want to make lazy arguments about union boogeymen and uncaring teachers, it's a personal decision based on a host of individual factors for every teacher.
Trying to make this a private vs public thing is nonsense. The reasons private schools are opening more than public schools have nothing to do with the attitude of the teaching staffs.
-
From my experience (wife is a teacher, neighbor is a teacher, both have discussed their colleagues), it's very much case-by-case. My wife was looking forward to being in the classroom with kids, providing she was comfortable with the safety precautions. But she has co-workers who for various reasons (mostly health-related) were not comfortable with being in a school building with 500 other people.
As much as some of the usual suspects want to make lazy arguments about union boogeymen and uncaring teachers, it's a personal decision based on a host of individual factors for every teacher.
Trying to make this a private vs public thing is nonsense. The reasons private schools are opening more than public schools have nothing to do with the attitude of the teaching staffs.
Spot on Pakuni. My wife is still concerned, but is comfortable with the protocols being put in place in her district and hope they work. She's assuming it will break down at some point and may have to go all online.
My youngest daughter a Senior to be has 5 days a week classes as of now, but we were informed by our district it is subject to change and a final decision and format will be made by the end of this week.
-
From my experience (wife is a teacher, neighbor is a teacher, both have discussed their colleagues), it's very much case-by-case. My wife was looking forward to being in the classroom with kids, providing she was comfortable with the safety precautions. But she has co-workers who for various reasons (mostly health-related) were not comfortable with being in a school building with 500 other people.
As much as some of the usual suspects want to make lazy arguments about union boogeymen and uncaring teachers, it's a personal decision based on a host of individual factors for every teacher.
Trying to make this a private vs public thing is nonsense. The reasons private schools are opening more than public schools have nothing to do with the attitude of the teaching staffs.
From those teachers that I have talked to - they want to get back in school.
Every one was also very concerned about the safety of doing so. They see no way to stop the spread among students or teachers.
Masks help (if properly worn) and separation helps (if maintained), but in a crowded building these are hard to do.
-
Every teacher I have talked to desperately wants to get back in the classroom. But they also say 'not yet,' since cases are still slowly rising here in MN.
And forgetful is spot on - teachers who want virtual classes right now are not trying to 'get off easy." It is actually more work for them to make a good virtual learning experience.
-
Georgia school from that crowded hallway photo has now closed after six students and three staff members test positive for COVID.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/08/09/nine-people-test-positive-coronavirus-georgia-school-where-photos-packed-hallways-went-viral/
We passed by a rural elementary school in Georgia today. Large groups of kids outside, not a mask in sight.
-
My son's favorite teacher, the one he desperately wanted home room with in 8th grade, chose career change over in-person teaching this fall. Catholic school.
-
I think I'd amend my comments. 95% of all teachers really really want to get back to teaching. Lots of people are dedicated to their jobs, but teachers are well above average there or they wouldn't do it.
I think this year it's just bonkers. We have two days to decide if we want to have our 6/8th graders go two days a week, or full virtual.
Two days a week .. the situation is nuts. Kids will file in 6 feet apart, skip their lockers, go to a room with 13 kids. They will not leave their room, teachers will rotate to them. There will be no small groups besides trying to talk with masks on to kids 6 feet north, south, east, and west of them. No carpet time. They will be discouraged from walking around the room at all, just sit in your seat.
Until lunch, which will be extended so they can talk to other teachers. Like, wut? Kids don't want to talk to teachers during lunch or any other time, let alone have a longer time to do that. No library visits, no computer labs, no art room, no music. Sit in your chair and learn and then go home. With a mask on. Sounds quite awful.
/venting
-
That Georgia school where the kids got suspended for taking pictures of their maskless classmates crammed in the hallways? Closed. COVID cleaning after several positive tests.
-
DHS approved the badger shield plus for use in schools.
https://making.engr.wisc.edu/badger-shield-plus/
Kids and teachers dont have to wear masks, the shield is sufficient. So important, especially for the younger grades.
-
This .. befuddles me. I think we hear mostly from public school teachers .. in (your) village, 25% of them surveyed selected they'd resign, retire, FMLA, etc if forced to go in-person. My teacher wife is completely relieved her district is all virtual. Teacher organizations are rallying to fight in-person classes.
Now .. clearly that's not 100% of all teachers. One would figure XX% are as you observed, passionately awaiting being in the classroom.
So .. either your experiences are from self-selected pro-in-person teachers (or hand-selected by administrators for their excitement) .. or perhaps there's something about parochial teachers that make them more interested than their public school counterparts.
Thoughts?
I don't think I am self selecting. I have talked with teachers in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s from both sides of the aisle. I have even asked how their other colleagues feel and they usually reply that 90% want to go back. Now my school did lose two good teachers. It appears (this is not confirmed) that they have some multi generational family issues at play. Our school is not pleasantville. There are uphill battles to fight BUT it really does seem like the buy in is as great from the teachers as it is from the parents.
And yes, maybe we all have our head in the sand but we're going to try. There is a lot of...hey don't go anywhere before schools starts, lets be safe, etc.
-
I don't think I am self selecting. I have talked with teachers in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s from both sides of the aisle. I have even asked how their other colleagues feel and they usually reply that 90% want to go back. Now my school did lose two good teachers. It appears (this is not confirmed) that they have some multi generational family issues at play. Our school is not pleasantville. There are uphill battles to fight BUT it really does seem like the buy in is as great from the teachers as it is from the parents.
And yes, maybe we all have our head in the sand but we're going to try. There is a lot of...hey don't go anywhere before schools starts, lets be safe, etc.
Similar in my public school district. We have roughly 125 kids per grade. My wife a teacher is a little nervous about going back but she knows the best way to get kids to learn is in person. Virtual does not work at the grade school level. All of her co workers she talks with are the same. They are doing this for the kids just as they did when they got their degree in education. She is hoping this helps kids/parents understand when sick stay home.
-
Was traveling the end of last week and did not have time to type out on my telephone.
Some more on the plans from my wife's district that I thought were interesting.
- They are planning mask breaks at least once a day. Although it sounds more like the students will be split up into smaller groups and at a specified 5-10 minute time interval the students and the teacher will march spaced single file down the hall and outside under a tent the district rented. They want the kids to keep walking and not congregate.
- One way directions throughout the school and they will set up barriers wherever there is not sufficient space.
- Classes are extended to 70 minutes long and only 4 periods per day.
-
Was traveling the end of last week and did not have time to type out on my telephone.
Some more on the plans from my wife's district that I thought were interesting.
- They are planning mask breaks at least once a day. Although it sounds more like the students will be split up into smaller groups and at a specified 5-10 minute time interval the students and the teacher will march spaced single file down the hall and outside under a tent the district rented. They want the kids to keep walking and not congregate.
- One way directions throughout the school and they will set up barriers wherever there is not sufficient space.
- Classes are extended to 70 minutes long and only 4 periods per day.
Sounds like they are doing most everything to prevent an outbreak. I love the 'walk through the tent with your mask off' idea. It not only gets the kids moving, but may increase compliance while they are inside.
Great ideas.
-
Yesterday .. our school district's high school English department put up a Donors Choose fundraiser for a dozen air filter units, replacement filters, plexiglas, etc .. $5200. Within 24 hours, it was fully funded.
I like this, and also not so much. I mean .. there are 200 other classrooms that "need" this too. I think the school should just tack on a $25 fee to all students and just make this happen in all rooms.
-
Yesterday .. our school district's high school English department put up a Donors Choose fundraiser for a dozen air filter units, replacement filters, plexiglas, etc .. $5200. Within 24 hours, it was fully funded.
I like this, and also not so much. I mean .. there are 200 other classrooms that "need" this too. I think the school should just tack on a $25 fee to all students and just make this happen in all rooms.
Our school (Catholic) raised funds to buy the heavy duty air filters for each classroom in 2 days.
A donor also bought face shields for every kid in the school and teachers/staff.
Solutions, not problems.
-
Our school (Catholic) raised funds to buy the heavy duty air filters for each classroom in 2 days.
A donor also bought face shields for every kid in the school and teachers/staff.
Solutions, not problems.
Where there’s a will, there’s a way.
-
I always heard that where there is a will, there is unhappy heirs.
-
I always heard that where there is a will, there is unhappy heirs.
And a bunch of happy lawyers.
-
High school lets hundreds of fans attend a football game but bans the media because they were afraid of reports about the truth.
https://dailymemphian.com/section/sports/article/16369/calkins-collierville-high-football-game-media-banned?fbclid=IwAR3qziKjWCYpH-Wb_g7RHKjR95PRaY1GBclkwMdcTIHT0WrmUPOlA_sV9eU
-
A Florida judge today struck down Gov. Ron DeSantis’s order requiring public schools to reopen for in-person classes.
In his decision, Judge Charles W. Dodson of the Leon County Circuit Court wrote that the order, which threatened to withhold funding from school districts that did not give students the option of returning in person, violated the state Constitution because it “arbitrarily disregards safety.”
-
Although this report is Minnesota-specific, I am posting it here because of the huge ramifications it could have for a resurgence if the practice is substantiated, and more widespread.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/08/19/latest-on-covid19-in-mn
State health authorities on Wednesday pleaded with Minnesotans to do the right things to stem the spread of COVID-19 even as they expressed frustration over fresh reports of Minnesotans doing the wrong things.
For instance, officials are hearing anecdotal but “troubling reports” of parents who want their kids back in K-12 school buildings this fall so badly that they are choosing not to get their children tested for COVID-19, despite symptoms, for fear it will hurt their local school’s chances of teaching in-person, Dr. Ruth Lynfield, the state’s epidemiologist, said Wednesday.
----------------
The reports have been characterized as anecdotal, so it's hard to know what to make of them. But if this is a true, I worry that the fall/winter resurgence could be even worse than experts fear.
-
Possible side effect of the pandemic: No more snow days. Instead, learn from home?
Sorry, Kids. Snow Days Are Probably Over.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/us/snow-days-online-school.html
This month, New York City, the nation’s largest school system, canceled them for the year, citing the pandemic, which has forced districts everywhere to look for ways to make up lost days.
New York’s decision followed moves that other administrators have been making since March, when schools were forced to transition to online learning and officials realized they could do the same during hazardous weather.
“We said, ‘Wow, this could really be a solution for us for snow days in the future,’” said Robb Malay, a school superintendent who oversees seven districts in southern New Hampshire, where a new policy will replace snow days with virtual learning.
-
Possible side effect of the pandemic: No more snow days. Instead, learn from home?
Sorry, Kids. Snow Days Are Probably Over.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/us/snow-days-online-school.html
This month, New York City, the nation’s largest school system, canceled them for the year, citing the pandemic, which has forced districts everywhere to look for ways to make up lost days.
New York’s decision followed moves that other administrators have been making since March, when schools were forced to transition to online learning and officials realized they could do the same during hazardous weather.
“We said, ‘Wow, this could really be a solution for us for snow days in the future,’” said Robb Malay, a school superintendent who oversees seven districts in southern New Hampshire, where a new policy will replace snow days with virtual learning.
So, I have a question.
I know that many types of school funding are based on actual attendance counts. How are they doing that when class is virtual? Are the teachers simply reporting the number of kids who log into the Zoom call?
-
So, I have a question.
I know that many types of school funding are based on actual attendance counts. How are they doing that when class is virtual? Are the teachers simply reporting the number of kids who log into the Zoom call?
In the district my kids are in yes they are taking daily or class room attendance. So the virtual kids could literally check in to each class and go to sleep or play video games
-
So, I have a question.
I know that many types of school funding are based on actual attendance counts. How are they doing that when class is virtual? Are the teachers simply reporting the number of kids who log into the Zoom call?
At my wife’s school, they keep track of who comes online and whether anybody logs off early. As injurybug mentioned, it’s more difficult to keep track of who is actually paying attention, but they try to keep the kids as engaged as possible.
-
Possible side effect of the pandemic: No more snow days. Instead, learn from home?
Sorry, Kids. Snow Days Are Probably Over.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/us/snow-days-online-school.html
This month, New York City, the nation’s largest school system, canceled them for the year, citing the pandemic, which has forced districts everywhere to look for ways to make up lost days.
New York’s decision followed moves that other administrators have been making since March, when schools were forced to transition to online learning and officials realized they could do the same during hazardous weather.
“We said, ‘Wow, this could really be a solution for us for snow days in the future,’” said Robb Malay, a school superintendent who oversees seven districts in southern New Hampshire, where a new policy will replace snow days with virtual learning.
My wife's district and my kids district decided this also.
Snow Days will be online at home days.
-
At my wife’s school, they keep track of who comes online and whether anybody logs off early. As injurybug mentioned, it’s more difficult to keep track of who is actually paying attention, but they try to keep the kids as engaged as possible.
My wife takes attendance by who logs in.
Some weird replies from students who were missing.
"I'm missing online today, because I have to go to the grocery store."
"I'm going to be missing every Wednesday because I got a job and I'll just review stuff online later."
-
Boston public schools shift to remote learning
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-boston/boston-public-schools-shift-to-remote-learning-amid-covid-19-surge-idUSKBN2762FT
Boston, which serves more than 55,000 pre-K through grade 12 students, allowed some pupils with the highest needs back to the classroom on Oct. 1 after starting remote learning on Sept. 21.
But city officials decided to go back to fully remote education after the number of confirmed positive cases across Boston increased for two weeks.
“We have said all along that we will only provide in-person learning for students if the data and public health guidance supports it, and this new data shows that we are trending in the wrong direction,” Boston Mayor Martin Walsh said in a statement.
-
Have we seen any cases come from schools?
We're mid-way through Week 8 and so far, so good. I feel like if you mask kids up, this can be done pretty safely. What am I missing?
-
Have we seen any cases come from schools?
We're mid-way through Week 8 and so far, so good. I feel like if you mask kids up, this can be done pretty safely. What am I missing?
lol
-
Have we seen any cases come from schools?
We're mid-way through Week 8 and so far, so good. I feel like if you mask kids up, this can be done pretty safely. What am I missing?
I agree in the district for my kids which has about 1500 k-12 we have a single case here and there but no outbreaks due to the contact tracing being done. Most of the cases are coming from the parents that are not being responsible.
-
A number of larger school districts around here have had to go virtual due to several cases. Grand Rapids Public has never gone to in person learning and is staying virtual until at least January.
Catholic schools in the area have done ok so far. We received an e-letter from the superintendent warning that winter sports and all extracurriculars are in jeopardy.
-
lol
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/21/925794511/were-the-risks-of-reopening-schools-exaggerated
Follow the data skat. I don’t think anyone is suggesting there is zero risk with face to face schooling but data has been suggesting there isn’t an increased risk then normal public exposure. Our district has had a few cases but nothing crazy.
-
Agree that this has not been the disaster it might have been. Still, there have been school outbreaks. News on them is scattered, and often found on community news sites.
COVID outbreaks in Michigan schools rise 25 percent in a week
https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/covid-outbreaks-michigan-schools-rise-25-percent-week
Nearly 500 COVID-19 Cases Linked To IL Schools: See Where
https://patch.com/illinois/across-il/nearly-500-covid-19-cases-linked-il-schools-see-where
COVID-19 school outbreaks rise across Maricopa County; Chandler USD reports 9 cases districtwide
https://communityimpact.com/phoenix/chandler/education/2020/10/20/covid-19-school-outbreaks-rise-across-maricopa-county-chandler-usd-reports-9-cases-districtwide/
-
I think the issue with K-12, versus higher education, is that the entire K-12 student body is sent home every night. To households with parents, siblings and others who may have gone out into the community as well.
Higher education students by and large live in their own "quasi-bubble." It's not perfect by any stretch because those students interact with the community in numerous ways, but not sending everyone home to a multitude of households helps tremendously.
So I can see a reasoning for schools to "go virtual" when community spread is high.
-
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/21/925794511/were-the-risks-of-reopening-schools-exaggerated
Follow the data skat. I don’t think anyone is suggesting there is zero risk with face to face schooling but data has been suggesting there isn’t an increased risk then normal public exposure. Our district has had a few cases but nothing crazy.
He asked, "have we seen any cases from schools." Not many, or a lot. Any.
That's funny.
-
Private school a couple miles from me had to shut down because of a huge cluster of cases involving students, teachers and staff.
Public schools in the Charlotte area have not returned to in-person schooling. About to very soon, starting with K-5 at first, then expanding to middle school, then to high school, if all goes well.
I hope it does! Kids need in-person school if the health situation allows it.
-
I hope it does! Kids need in-person school if the health situation allows it.
I'm still not certain who needs it more, kids, or parents that are counting on school as daycare. Either way, there certainly is a lot of incentive to keep schools going.
-
I think the issue with K-12, versus higher education, is that the entire K-12 student body is sent home every night. To households with parents, siblings and others who may have gone out into the community as well.
Higher education students by and large live in their own "quasi-bubble." It's not perfect by any stretch because those students interact with the community in numerous ways, but not sending everyone home to a multitude of households helps tremendously.
So I can see a reasoning for schools to "go virtual" when community spread is high.
Our District has no metrics in place and I fear they won't go all virtual when needed.
-
I'm still not certain who needs it more, kids, or parents that are counting on school as daycare. Either way, there certainly is a lot of incentive to keep schools going.
Good point. Both need it. But it has to be done right.
-
https://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/1129136
-
lol
LOL what? Our school just finished week 8 of 100% face to face and we've had zero cases. ZERO. And we're in Wisconsin which is on fire right now.
Two nights ago in a field report from Milwaukee, NBC's Gabe Gutierrez talked about how spread is coming much more from multi household gatherings than from schools or restaurants.
You won't find me in a bar or gathering in a friends home but I do think its ridiculous that schools are not in session. Wear a mask, keep distance, limit room switching, temp check each morning, stay home with greater precaution than normal.
-
LOL what? Our school just finished week 8 of 100% face to face and we've had zero cases. ZERO. And we're in Wisconsin which is on fire right now.
My kids (students) and wife (teacher) have all had in-person classes interrupted because of multiple positive cases among students and staff. Three different schools, in different towns. All the schools did masks, distancing, etc.
My only point here is that your experience isn't proof that in-person school is safe, any more than my experience is proof that schools are super-spreaders. Anecdote isn't data.
-
My kids (students) and wife (teacher) have all had in-person classes interrupted because of multiple positive cases among students and staff. Three different schools, in different towns. All the schools did masks, distancing, etc.
My only point here is that your experience isn't proof that in-person school is safe, any more than my experience is proof that schools are super-spreaders. Anecdote isn't data.
Do you think the school was the cause of the spread or that people there were found to be positive. With hundreds of households, youth sports, etc kids and teachers can be exposed in a million different ways, the question is will it spread at school? I acknowledge my opinion is very much based on anecdotal evidence but it seems schools settings don't act as spreaders.
-
Do you think the school was the cause of the spread or that people there were found to be positive. With hundreds of households, youth sports, etc kids and teachers can be exposed in a million different ways, the question is will it spread at school? I acknowledge my opinion is very much based on anecdotal evidence but it seems schools settings don't act as spreaders.
At my wife's school, it's believed the spread took place within the building.
-
Do you think the school was the cause of the spread or that people there were found to be positive. With hundreds of households, youth sports, etc kids and teachers can be exposed in a million different ways, the question is will it spread at school? I acknowledge my opinion is very much based on anecdotal evidence but it seems schools settings don't act as spreaders.
We are all speaking to our own anecdotal experiences of course. Good thing there are large studies that have been completed and the data is becoming crystal clear. Schools are equally safe and pose no greater risk then just the general risk of living during a damn pandemic.
Until there is a vaccine and in turn with time herd immunity there is little we can do other then to mask up and ride out the storm.
-
We know so much about the virus at this point and who is most vulnerable to it. If someone finds themself on the end of scale being most vulnerable then take the necessary precautions to do your best to protect yourself.
If you find yourself on the other end of the scale, well be a decent human being and limit the risk and exposure but it’s ok to go on living life. Unfortunately that’s the reality of the situation.
If Biden wins he won’t do a thing different then what the trump administration is doing other then a mask mandate which will not have a lick of impact on the course of this pandemic.
-
If Biden wins he won’t do a thing different then what the trump administration is doing other then a mask mandate which will not have a lick of impact on the course of this pandemic.
1. False
2. Masks don't work?
-
We are all speaking to our own anecdotal experiences of course. Good thing there are large studies that have been completed and the data is becoming crystal clear. Schools are equally safe and pose no greater risk then just the general risk of living during a damn pandemic.
Until there is a vaccine and in turn with time herd immunity there is little we can do other then to mask up and ride out the storm.
Multiple studies are now coming out with the conclusion that schools are not causing super spreader events. Especially younger ages.
Yes schools are closing here and there when they identify multiple positive tests. That is a good thing. And once under control, they go back at it.
So far so good for 2 of my 3 kids with school. Still going strong with no issues. The third is all virtual, my youngest in 3rd grade, so can't say much there other than he is participating in other events and physically socializing with other children since summer so that social growth is still taking place.
-
We know so much about the virus at this point and who is most vulnerable to it. If someone finds themself on the end of scale being most vulnerable then take the necessary precautions to do your best to protect yourself.
If you find yourself on the other end of the scale, well be a decent human being and limit the risk and exposure but it’s ok to go on living life. Unfortunately that’s the reality of the situation.
If Biden wins he won’t do a thing different then what the trump administration is doing other then a mask mandate which will not have a lick of impact on the course of this pandemic.
He won’t host rallies where obese and unhealthy people are unmasked yelling “lock her up” with spit flying out their mouths, so that’ll make a difference
-
https://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/1129136
This is huge for kids. Unless you like in dane Co, then too bad, so sad.
-
If Biden wins he won’t do a thing different then what the trump administration is doing other then a mask mandate which will not have a lick of impact on the course of this pandemic.
Science disagrees.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/what-to-know/masks/wearing-mask
It would have been ideal for masks to be mandated long ago, but a mandate would still help considerably. The latest IHME estimates project that under current laws the US will have 389,087 deaths by 2/1/2021; if masks were universally mandated now, the number goes down to 314,773.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trendhttps://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trend
I think saving over 74,000 lives would qualify as more than a 'lick of impact.'
-
Science disagrees.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/what-to-know/masks/wearing-mask
It would have been ideal for masks to be mandated long ago, but a mandate would still help considerably. The latest IHME estimates project that under current laws the US will have 389,087 deaths by 2/1/2021; if masks were universally mandated now, the number goes down to 314,773.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trendhttps://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trend
I think saving over 74,000 lives would qualify as more than a 'lick of impact.'
No you’re absolutely right about masked making a difference. I should have explained better that a federal mask mandate won’t age a lick of difference. I believe 80-85% of Americans are very good at wearing masks. The other 15% won’t wear one no matter what state or federal mandate is in place.
-
1. False
2. Masks don't work?
I explained better what I meant....I believe masks work, I don’t think a federal mandate increases compliance to mask wearing.
What else would he do different?
-
I explained better what I meant....I believe masks work, I don’t think a federal mandate increases compliance to mask wearing.
What else would he do different?
I’ll bite even though this is a school thread.
Coordinated national response as it relates to
1. PPE
2. Testing
3. Data transparency with public/municipalities
4. Leveraging the CDC
5. More consistency of strategy and communication
Probably no impact to vaccine development. Potentially impact to vaccine distribution. Potential impact to treatment/therapy investment.
-
I explained better what I meant....I believe masks work, I don’t think a federal mandate increases compliance to mask wearing.
What else would he do different?
1. Not hold superspreader events
2. Not encourage people to violate safety protocols
3. Not attack those who impose safety protocols
4. Not lead people to question the credibility and intentions of the scientific experts
5. Not try to strip people of health care coverage
6. Provide additional funding to increase testing and contact tracing
7. Stop pushing herd immunity as a strategy
8. Stop making false statements that a vaccine is coming any day now
9. Offer emergency paid leave for those infected, ensuring they won't be punished economically for staying home when sick
-
1. Not hold superspreader events
2. Not encourage people to violate safety protocols
3. Not attack those who impose safety protocols
4. Not lead people to question the credibility and intentions of the scientific experts
5. Not try to strip people of health care coverage
6. Provide additional funding to increase testing and contact tracing
7. Stop pushing herd immunity as a strategy
8. Stop making false statements that a vaccine is coming any day now
9. Offer emergency paid leave for those infected, ensuring they won't be punished economically for staying home when sick
🤦♂️
-
🤦♂️
🙄
-
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/health/coronavirus-schools-children.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/health/coronavirus-schools-children.html)
-
LOL what? Our school just finished week 8 of 100% face to face and we've had zero cases. ZERO. And we're in Wisconsin which is on fire right now.
Two nights ago in a field report from Milwaukee, NBC's Gabe Gutierrez talked about how spread is coming much more from multi household gatherings than from schools or restaurants.
You won't find me in a bar or gathering in a friends home but I do think its ridiculous that schools are not in session. Wear a mask, keep distance, limit room switching, temp check each morning, stay home with greater precaution than normal.
We are in a country with mask mandates that vary by county, limited PPE in hospitals leading to extensive reuse, and no federal/state effective contact tracing. Students of all economic strata, geographic location, mental ability, and home politics returned to school at the same time. The only way that there would be no kids getting sick at school is if kids aren't able to get sick, which we know isn't true.
I'm glad your kid is okay though.
-
No you’re absolutely right about masked making a difference. I should have explained better that a federal mask mandate won’t age a lick of difference. I believe 80-85% of Americans are very good at wearing masks. The other 15% won’t wear one no matter what state or federal mandate is in place.
So they wouldn’t wear them even if it was required by law?
So much for the ‘law and order’ party.
-
🤦♂️
(https://media.tenor.com/images/40697a8bf41c8d182e466e14eb2d99ca/tenor.gif)
-
(https://media.tenor.com/images/40697a8bf41c8d182e466e14eb2d99ca/tenor.gif)
Strangely Joe didn’t reference anything from your list tonight. He did say he would require social distant dining with plexiglass surrounding tables.
-
Strangely Joe didn’t reference anything from your list tonight. He did say he would require social distant dining with plexiglass surrounding tables.
Wrong.
And, wrong.
-
Wrong.
And, wrong.
I know you are but what am I 😛
-
I know you are but what am I 😛
You're someone who is wrong. Thought we'd established that already.
Good night.
-
We are in a country with mask mandates that vary by county, limited PPE in hospitals leading to extensive reuse, and no federal/state effective contact tracing. Students of all economic strata, geographic location, mental ability, and home politics returned to school at the same time. The only way that there would be no kids getting sick at school is if kids aren't able to get sick, which we know isn't true.
I'm glad your kid is okay though.
Yeah, that’s the point. Mandate masks and let USA run wild. Would totally help if you signed on.
-
Yeah, that’s the point. Mandate masks and let USA run wild. Would totally help if you signed on.
Or invest in randomized testing and contact tracing so that we can get real data on this and get it under control. Your assumptions based on an 8-week school anecdote are silly.
-
Yeah, that’s the point. Mandate masks and let USA run wild. Would totally help if you signed on.
Mandate masks and go wild?
70.6% of positive cases in a CDC study were ALWAYS wearing masks in restaurants and bars.
-
Mandate masks and go wild?
70.6% of positive cases in a CDC study were ALWAYS wearing masks in restaurants and bars.
How does one eat and or drink if they have a mask on?
-
How does one eat and or drink if they have a mask on?
Exactly.
-
LOL what? Our school just finished week 8 of 100% face to face and we've had zero cases. ZERO. And we're in Wisconsin which is on fire right now.
Two nights ago in a field report from Milwaukee, NBC's Gabe Gutierrez talked about how spread is coming much more from multi household gatherings than from schools or restaurants.
First .. I think I saw that same NBC report .. he interviewed a lady in her car waiting at Miller Park for a COVID test. She used to teach with my wife in (our) village, lived at the end of our block.
I think of your experience often, that your school has zero cases. I pay attention to the two closest school districts to us (and you.) One is all virtual, one is hybrid. Both have incidents, cases, quarantines of staff and students. The village district can't go 5 days without a new case. (They give out zero point zero zero information, so other than "a case" it is unknown who, where, and how.)
I think all three of these schools/districts are doing 99% of the right things. That your school has been untouched is .. just flat out miracle. TBH, your time will come. It's impossible for ~300 families and staff to keep a perfect bubble forever.
-
First .. I think I saw that same NBC report .. he interviewed a lady in her car waiting at Miller Park for a COVID test. She used to teach with my wife in (our) village, lived at the end of our block.
I think of your experience often, that your school has zero cases. I pay attention to the two closest school districts to us (and you.) One is all virtual, one is hybrid. Both have incidents, cases, quarantines of staff and students. The village district can't go 5 days without a new case. (They give out zero point zero zero information, so other than "a case" it is unknown who, where, and how.)
I think all three of these schools/districts are doing 99% of the right things. That your school has been untouched is .. just flat out miracle. TBH, your time will come. It's impossible for ~300 families and staff to keep a perfect bubble forever.
Of course we won't stay at zero, but it appears to me that we also won't be a spread agency. It seems that science is saying masking up and going to school is safe. If I were in charge, every school would be open and every bar would be closed.
-
Of course we won't stay at zero, but it appears to me that we also won't be a spread agency. It seems that science is saying masking up and going to school is safe. If I were in charge, every school would be open and every bar would be closed.
While I am not in favor of opening up every school quite yet...I would take the underlined tradeoff in a heartbeat. Whatever the rate of spread we have in schools with mask mandates, we know it is lower than in bars.
-
My daughter-in-law is a 5th-grade teacher in the Glenview Northbrook district. She sees students in person every day but the kids are on a hybrid system. I think half go 3 days one week and 2 the next, while the other half go 2 days one week and 3 the next. They have teachers dedicated to doing online stuff so that those in the classrooms, like my DIL, can focus on the in-person teaching.
Everybody wears masks, the desks are social distanced, the kids eat at their desks at lunchtime to minimize lingering in hallways, etc.
I don't believe they've had any outbreaks. It's still not "normal," of course, but she says it seems to be working OK.
If I were a parent of a school-aged kid, I think I'd be open to something like this. We're going to start something similar any day now here in NC.
These are unprecedented times. Baby steps.
-
The Elementary School near me that my 3rd grader should go to (choiced to somewhere else now) just went from 1 case and about 18 quarantined students yesterday to 7 student cases and 112 quarantined students and 17 staff members quarantined. That's just about half their enrollment this year. They have moved to virtual for two weeks now and one other elementary and one high school in the District are virtual for the next week. I worry about the secondary schools in the District as they just switched from hybrid to everyone face to face for 4 days a week - the one high school has had an issue with cases recently with just the hybrid schedule. The administration and school board were pushing to vote on a return to face to face for 5 days for everyone at the 11/11 board meeting but I don't see that happening. The overall student cases and students quarantined in the District is by far the highest its been so far this school year right now.
-
The Elementary School near me that my 3rd grader should go to (choiced to somewhere else now) just went from 1 case and about 18 quarantined students yesterday to 7 student cases and 112 quarantined students and 17 staff members quarantined. That's just about half their enrollment this year. They have moved to virtual for two weeks now and one other elementary and one high school in the District are virtual for the next week. I worry about the secondary schools in the District as they just switched from hybrid to everyone face to face for 4 days a week - the one high school has had an issue with cases recently with just the hybrid schedule. The administration and school board were pushing to vote on a return to face to face for 5 days for everyone at the 11/11 board meeting but I don't see that happening. The overall student cases and students quarantined in the District is by far the highest its been so far this school year right now.
Wow, that sucks.
-
From the Charlotte Observer:
Private schools from kindergarten to 12th grade across North Carolina have more COVID-19 clusters than public schools and have generally had more confirmed cases in those clusters.
As of Friday, there were 14 active coronavirus clusters reported at private K-12 schools across the state with 138 confirmed cases, according to data from the state Department of Health and Human Services.
At K-12 public schools, 11 active coronavirus clusters had been reported with a total of 79 cases.
-
Lots of chatter this weekend in our neighborhood about new quarantines / shut downs. More and more of tracing goes back to sleep overs, after game team parties, etc. People are letting their guard down about who they let in their homes and whose homes they enter. It is wiping out entire sports teams right as state is approaching. I think people are rationalizing, well its just 8 kids coming over, not realizing the math behind it.
-
Lots of chatter this weekend in our neighborhood about quarantines and shut downs. More and more of tracing goes back to sleep overs, after game team parties, etc. People are letting their guard down about who they let in their homes and whose homes they enter. It is wiping out entire sports teams right as state is approaching. I think people are rationalizing, well its just 8 kids coming over, not realizing the math behind it.
Just had a conversation about this with a co-worker this morning. They had been letting their high school son go over to other's houses, but now they are cutting that back.
And she is someone that believes that schools should be open because she believes it can be done safely.
-
Our District switched from a hybrid model for secondary students the week of 10/19. Previously they had two cohorts - everyone was virtual on Mondays and one cohort went to school in person Tue/Thu and one cohort went to school in person Wed/Fri. But starting the week of 10/19, all kids in the secondary schools went in person for 4 days. There went any social distancing :(. And it's been a disaster as I feared it would - the cases and quarantine numbers have gone way up since then. And all 3 high schools in the District have gone virtual for a week or two due to a high number of cases and one middle school and three elementary schools have gone virtual for a portion of time due to so many students/staff being out on quarantine.
They originally wanted to vote at a board meeting next week to go back to 5 days face to face for secondary students. But that would be a huge mistake in my opinion - hoping they go back to the original hybrid model - that worked a lot better than what they're doing now. And also hoping they add gating criteria which they don't have in place right now leaving the administration able to switch things around based on just what they want to do and not necessarily based on how things are really going with Covid case numbers in the community.
-
Palm Beach County Schools have a rise in reported cases. Since only positive cases are kept out of school, not those in close contact, I suspect the numbers will rise. Also, they are relying on self reporting. I know of one positive case where the parent did not notify the school. They just kept their kid out of school. Again, I think another reason for future spikes.
-
Palm Beach County Schools have a rise in reported cases. Since only positive cases are kept out of school, not those in close contact, I suspect the numbers will rise. Also, they are relying on self reporting. I know of one positive case where the parent did not notify the school. They just kept their kid out of school. Again, I think another reason for future spikes.
I think our District is relying on self reporting and notification from the health department. But the health department is overwhelmed so I thik notifications are a bit delayed. And we've had parents in our District send their kids to school when sick waiting on Covid test results that ended up positive - so irresponsible.
-
Studies are finally coming out that prove the obvious: Schools reopening is dramatically increasing the R0 of coronavirus when analyzing the impact of 790 'phases' across 131 countries
> Reopening schools was associated with a 24-per-cent increase in R after 28 days, although the researchers cautioned they were unable to account for different precautions some countries implemented for reopening schools, such as limiting class sizes, social distancing, cleaning, personal hygiene, face masks, and temperature checks.
The article: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-r-rate-school-closures-lockdown-lancet-study-b1251617.html
The study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30785-4/fulltext
-
Elementary schools re-opened here in NC's largest district 2 weeks ago. There have been a few clusters but so far fairly well contained.
Middle schools are supposed to re-open Thanksgiving week (2 days on, then 3 days off for the holiday, then back the following week).
Not that it's very important, but I am quite sure there will not be middle-school basketball for me to coach this season ... and that's OK. If they said today that they were going to play a season, I'm not 100% sure I'd go back. I'm healthy (that I know of) but my wife has some pre-existing conditions and it probably wouldn't be wise of me to return. As I said, I doubt it will be an issue.
EDIT: District just decided today that in-person middle school won't start until Jan. 5. The slim chance of having basketball has just turned slimmer.
-
Some of Minnesota's largest cities are moving toward all distance learning:
More Minnesota schools halt in-person classes as COVID-19 cases rise
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/11/more-minnesota-schools-halt-inperson-classes-as-covid19-cases-rise
For reference, Bloomington and Duluth are MN's 4th and 5th largest cities. I have also heard rumors here in Rochester (3rd largest in MN) that we will move to all distance learning after Thanksgiving.
-
Our Catholic school just got moved to all virtual through thanksgiving. No transmission at school, but things like hockey tournaments did us in.
-
We've paused in person until next Tuesday. 5 isolated cases. 4 students, 1 substitute teacher.
They seemed to have changed their protocol. Instead of isolating / Q'ing kids clustered together in homerooms, they were keeping entire homerooms home. Soon 6 homerooms were home. And a bunch more kids bc of siblings. Ideally people get tested this week to measure spread, though they have determined none of the cases link up.
IMHO and uneducated opinion, I think they jumped the gun on the pause too quick. Not sure if going back on Tuesday is just what they're telling us or their true intent. Our health department told them they could stay open, they were not concerned.
(Hilltopper doing cartwheels over this news)
-
We've paused in person until next Tuesday. 5 isolated cases. 4 students, 1 substitute teacher.
They seemed to have changed their protocol. Instead of isolating / Q'ing kids clustered together in homerooms, they were keeping entire homerooms home. Soon 6 homerooms were home. And a bunch more kids bc of siblings. Ideally people get tested this week to measure spread, though they have determined none of the cases link up.
IMHO and uneducated opinion, I think they jumped the gun on the pause too quick. Not sure if going back on Tuesday is just what they're telling us or their true intent. Our health department told them they could stay open, they were not concerned.
(Hilltopper doing cartwheels over this news)
Our principal sent an email last Friday saying dont do extracurriculars, and that means y'all going to that tournament. The kids involve were sent home on monday, now the shut down.
We think this is the school's way of saying knock it off and dont F this up for everyone else. We are in support of her action, if this is the case.
They miss 1 day (Th), Friday was an off day already, then 1 week virtual, plus the 2 days before Thanksgiving. Not a bad time to send a stern message.
Indoor winter sports are going to be a disaster for schools staying open.
-
The Covid cases hadn't been too bad at my 8th grader's school so far this school year. But the last two days the numbers sky rocketed and they became the latest school in our District to go to all Virtual temporarily. Now all 3 high schools, 3 of the 4 middle schools and 3 elementary schools have gone virtual at some point due to Covid numbers. The only middle school that hasn't gone virtual yet has a much smaller enrollment than they other ones - it's the STEM school and they can actually socially distance there.
There's a board meeting coming up in an hour where they will be discussing the schedule for secondary students - should be interesting with the District Dashboard getting crazy high right now.
-
Our principal sent an email last Friday saying dont do extracurriculars, and that means y'all going to that tournament. The kids involve were sent home on monday, now the shut down.
We think this is the school's way of saying knock it off and dont F this up for everyone else. We are in support of her action, if this is the case.
They miss 1 day (Th), Friday was an off day already, then 1 week virtual, plus the 2 days before Thanksgiving. Not a bad time to send a stern message.
Indoor winter sports are going to be a disaster for schools staying open.
Yeah we're waiting on that honor code form to come home. I would guess 60%+ have kids in hockey, WYBL hoops or indoor soccer (plus a few Irish Dance) it will be interesting to see what happens. My son played all summer for Chapman AAU and then did his 3 on 3 this fall and we didn't have any reports of cases from those. Kids are playing hoops masked up. I think the issue comes from overnights and in between games when parents are mixing families together etc. But what do I know.
-
My younger kid's school just went all remote through the Thanksgiving holiday. At least three confirmed cases, all in different grades. First pause since the school year started in August.
Hearing it's likely a lot of schools in the region will go all remote for at least two weeks after Christmas break, because of expected travel and holiday gatherings.
-
Yeah we're waiting on that honor code form to come home. I would guess 60%+ have kids in hockey, WYBL hoops or indoor soccer (plus a few Irish Dance) it will be interesting to see what happens. My son played all summer for Chapman AAU and then did his 3 on 3 this fall and we didn't have any reports of cases from those. Kids are playing hoops masked up. I think the issue comes from overnights and in between games when parents are mixing families together etc. But what do I know.
Middle school sports is tough cause you are stuck in a gym with 8+ other teams for 3-6 hours. Not ideal for this situation. I still think high school sports are ok. Spread is not happening during events football has gone well to this point.
For hoops our conference is allowing 2 tickets per player. So with if you are keeping the gyms to 10% or less capacity people can easily spread out and watch the game masked up.
Hopefully my HS senior gets his final year of hs hoops.
If people are taking precautions the kids can have some normalcy staying in school and enjoying extra curriculars.
-
My younger kid's school just went all remote through the Thanksgiving holiday. At least three confirmed cases, all in different grades. First pause since the school year started in August.
Hearing it's likely a lot of schools in the region will go all remote for at least two weeks after Christmas break, because of expected travel and holiday gatherings.
K-12 should do what most colleges are doing, and what your kid's school is doing.
Going all remote through Thanksgiving and Christmas. Too much travel, family events, that can lead to a massive spike in infections. Just leave those centered in families, and not further spread in schools.
It's only a matter of probably a month of schooling. Wait 10-14 days after New Years, and start in person education back up again.
-
K-12 should do what most colleges are doing, and what your kid's school is doing.
Going all remote through Thanksgiving and Christmas. Too much travel, family events, that can lead to a massive spike in infections. Just leave those centered in families, and not further spread in schools.
It's only a matter of probably a month of schooling. Wait 10-14 days after New Years, and start in person education back up again.
I agree with most of this, but I’m not sure it will be time to re-open schools in mid January. Most of the projections I have seen predict that hospitalization rates will be higher in mid- to late January than they are now in many parts of the upper Midwest. If that proves to be the case, it may not be prudent to resume in-person schooling until a few weeks later. Maybe mid- to late February?
-
(Hilltopper doing cartwheels over this news)
FINALLY!!! oh god I hurt my back.
-
I agree with most of this, but I’m not sure it will be time to re-open schools in mid January. Most of the projections I have seen predict that hospitalization rates will be higher in mid- to late January than they are now in many parts of the upper Midwest. If that proves to be the case, it may not be prudent to resume in-person schooling until a few weeks later. Maybe mid- to late February?
That is likely to be the case. I was mainly going by being as generous as possible in letting schools be open. Zero need for the added risk over Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years holidays.
Most likely, things should stay closed until mid- late February, maybe even early March. But the earliest schools should be considering being open is mid Jan.
-
Our District should be all virtual with how bad the Covid numbers are in the community. But there's no way the school board and administration was going to do that - have to make all the parents happy who want face to face no matter what and don't think Covid presents a risk.
One small thing to be thankful for though is our school board voted to switch back to a hybrid cohort schedule for 12/1-1/22 at least for secondary students - everyone is virtual monday and half the students go in person Tue/Thu and half go Wed/Fri in person and are virtual the other days. My 8th grader's school went all virtual starting tomorrow through 12/1 so when she's back she will be on the hybrid cohort schedule again at least. The Covid numbers were much better when they had the hybrid cohort schedule. They had switched to 4 days face to face for all secondary students the week of 10/19 and even the Superintendent admitted at tonight's board meeting that this didn't go well.
-
My daughter's school released statistics, and there are more cases from students e-learning than there are from students attending classes. 0.8% of students elearning have tested positive. 0.7% in person have tested positive. 919 students have been quarantined as a result of close contact. 2 of those have later tested positive.
-
My daughter's school released statistics, and there are more cases from students e-learning than there are from students attending classes. 0.8% of students elearning have tested positive. 0.7% in person have tested positive. 919 students have been quarantined as a result of close contact. 2 of those have later tested positive.
It's basically a statistical tie, but it's nonetheless very interesting. Have they drawn any conclusions as to why, or at least theorized as to why?
-
It's basically a statistical tie, but it's nonetheless very interesting. Have they drawn any conclusions as to why, or at least theorized as to why?
Kids at school are used to wearing masks, so they keep wearing them around non family members. Kids who are e-learning seem to not wear them as much when they are around other people. Just their theory.
-
My daughter's school released statistics, and there are more cases from students e-learning than there are from students attending classes. 0.8% of students elearning have tested positive. 0.7% in person have tested positive. 919 students have been quarantined as a result of close contact. 2 of those have later tested positive.
Wouldn't a proper conclusion be that elearning lead to less people getting infected than not elearning? You figure that if they're at home elearning then it's someone else in the household that brought the virus in and then it wasn't brought to anyone else as opposed to being brought to school where many more people get exposed.
-
Kids at school are used to wearing masks, so they keep wearing them around non family members. Kids who are e-learning seem to not wear them as much when they are around other people. Just their theory.
Interesting.
-
Wouldn't a proper conclusion be that elearning lead to less people getting infected than not elearning? You figure that if they're at home elearning then it's someone else in the household that brought the virus in and then it wasn't brought to anyone else as opposed to being brought to school where many more people get exposed.
Their contact tracing led to the conclusion that students at school are not getting the virus at school, but rather through other events outside of school, and wearing masks, keeping social distance and washing hands frequently is actually keeping the numbers down. Unless the student is wearing a mask at home, and everyone in that home is wearing a mask, e-learning is not foolproof.
-
Their contact tracing led to the conclusion that students at school are not getting the virus at school, but rather through other events outside of school, and wearing masks, keeping social distance and washing hands frequently is actually keeping the numbers down. Unless the student is wearing a mask at home, and everyone in that home is wearing a mask, e-learning is not foolproof.
I get it now thanks for elaborating
-
Some of Minnesota's largest cities are moving toward all distance learning:
More Minnesota schools halt in-person classes as COVID-19 cases rise
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/11/more-minnesota-schools-halt-inperson-classes-as-covid19-cases-rise
For reference, Bloomington and Duluth are MN's 4th and 5th largest cities. I have also heard rumors here in Rochester (3rd largest in MN) that we will move to all distance learning after Thanksgiving.
In follow up...the Rochester Public Schools announced yesterday that we are going from our hybrid model to an all-virtual model for all students through at least January 8.
-
Majority of central indianapolis schools now at-home till at least mid-January
-
Well .. my village's public schools are going back to all virtual.
They'll look at it in December and again in January. If I had to bet, we won't go back to hybrid until March.
It's not like the schools were awash in cases .. right now it's at 13 for about 4000 students. It's a combination of state wide and city numbers that are high.
For everyone (me) who bet on the over/under, it was 10 weeks of hybrid schooling.
-
Well .. my village's public schools are going back to all virtual.
They'll look at it in December and again in January. If I had to bet, we won't go back to hybrid until March.
It's not like the schools were awash in cases .. right now it's at 13 for about 4000 students. It's a combination of state wide and city numbers that are high.
For everyone (me) who bet on the over/under, it was 10 weeks of hybrid schooling.
I know a school going back to face to face tomorrow...I'll let you know when cartwheels are allowed again, provided your back can handle.
ps...you' still have some in person this week, right?
-
I know a school going back to face to face tomorrow...I'll let you know when cartwheels are allowed again, provided your back can handle.
ps...you' still have some in person this week, right?
(Yes, this week is still hybrid.)
Thing is though .. it's not like the schools are inundated .. it's the critically high cases per 100k in the village that was the deciding factor, in an effort to keep people home, get the area's case load down, bend the curve.
I'll ask the question: Why isn't your school closing for the same reason?
-
(Yes, this week is still hybrid.)
Thing is though .. it's not like the schools are inundated .. it's the critically high cases per 100k in the village that was the deciding factor, in an effort to keep people home, get the area's case load down, bend the curve.
I'll ask the question: Why isn't your school closing for the same reason?
Because spread isn’t occurring because of the schools and kids learning in person is better and more equitable?
-
Because spread isn’t occurring because of the schools and kids learning in person is better and more equitable?
This is a big part. Beyond that, we had a few students test positive, as well as a sub and a staffer. They all were isolated incidents. School was paused and close contacts were quarantined and encouraged to be tested, all negatives so far. School is re-opening after 4 days of virtual but certain close contacts are being asked to stay out for extra caution. We have also been in constant contact with the local health department and they have repeatedly said our incidents do not warrant virtual. They expect to see cases pop up, as long as we follow their prescribed protocols, they're OK.
IMO, kids are safer in school than out of it. I walk around our neighborhood and kids are hanging out in groups, going to lunch, hanging at friends house etc. The 8a-3p physical school day doesn't let that happen.
I wouldn't go to a multi-household Thanksgiving if you paid me, but I do believe schools (done right) are the best place for kids.
-
(Yes, this week is still hybrid.)
Thing is though .. it's not like the schools are inundated .. it's the critically high cases per 100k in the village that was the deciding factor, in an effort to keep people home, get the area's case load down, bend the curve.
I'll ask the question: Why isn't your school closing for the same reason?
Our schools are staying open for now because our administration/board is convinced that Covid is not spread in the schools and they are bound and determined to avoid all virtual no matter what. But I think the community spread is a big concern and hospitals near us are getting overwhelmed. And the District Covid dashboard keeps increasing a lot too. I'm not sure anything will convince the administration to go all virtual - they won't put in gating criteria and I think that's pretty much because any gating criteria says they shoudl be all virtual now. There are 5 schools in the District right now that are temporarily virtual due to a high number of cases but they are deciding this on a case by case basis for each school with no metrics they've shared with families. I've become good at looking at the District Dashboard and guessing when schools will switch to virtual though...
-
I have a friend who teaches in a Catholic grade school in the northwest suburbs. She is getting ready to go all-virtual after Christmas.
-
k12 we have had our middle schools go all virtual for 2 weeks in september and now 1 more week. Our HS has been all in person with the option to go virtual. Football team has not missed a game and cases have been averaging about 2-3 per week in the HS the past month. Football team lost 6 starters to contact tracing today. Girl was in school last monday went home cause family member tested positive. She then tested positive and then threw a covid party this weekend to celebrate. Things could could ugly real soon. The junior class at this school has had almost all the cases and I am not shocked. The parents and kids would rather be out partying than caring about anyone else.
-
k12 we have had our middle schools go all virtual for 2 weeks in september and now 1 more week. Our HS has been all in person with the option to go virtual. Football team has not missed a game and cases have been averaging about 2-3 per week in the HS the past month. Football team lost 6 starters to contact tracing today. Girl was in school last monday went home cause family member tested positive. She then tested positive and then threw a covid party this weekend to celebrate. Things could could ugly real soon. The junior class at this school has had almost all the cases and I am not shocked. The parents and kids would rather be out partying than caring about anyone else.
Wait wait wait she tested positive then threw a celebration party? I'm all for automatic sentencing these people to community service... unless someone dies then lock their ass up.
-
Wait wait wait she tested positive then threw a celebration party? I'm all for automatic sentencing these people to community service... unless someone dies then lock their ass up.
yep and kids were dumb enough to go. Like i said the junior class in this school is a complete mess. parents do not care so kids do whatever they want
-
::) ::)
k12 we have had our middle schools go all virtual for 2 weeks in september and now 1 more week. Our HS has been all in person with the option to go virtual. Football team has not missed a game and cases have been averaging about 2-3 per week in the HS the past month. Football team lost 6 starters to contact tracing today. Girl was in school last monday went home cause family member tested positive. She then tested positive and then threw a covid party this weekend to celebrate. Things could could ugly real soon. The junior class at this school has had almost all the cases and I am not shocked. The parents and kids would rather be out partying than caring about anyone else.
What community is this if you don't mind my asking? And if you do, forget I asked. :)
-
::) ::)
What community is this if you don't mind my asking? And if you do, forget I asked. :)
-
A private school about 2 miles from my house had to go from all in-person to all-remote after having its second COVID-19 cluster in the last couple of months. The first one also forced the school to go remote for a few weeks.
It's the first school in NC's largest county, private or public, to have two clusters so far this academic year. Public schools have only been back in person since late October.
In this latest cluster, at least 7 cases have been recorded among students "involved in in-person learning,” according to the school. The school believes the initial exposure to the coronavirus was linked to an off-campus sporting event on Oct. 31.
-
In this latest cluster, at least 7 cases have been recorded among students "involved in in-person learning,” according to the school. The school believes the initial exposure to the coronavirus was linked to an off-campus sporting event on Oct. 31.
100 years for now history books will look at our decision to "teach virtually" as the 2nd biggest crime of the century. I don't particularly care about my district bc we're a district of means and a near 1:1 laptop to student ratio. But what is going on at MPS or Racine Unified, etc. is absolutely horrible. The science shows the spread is not in classroom but teachers' unions are behaving as recklessly as the Tavern League. It's appalling.
-
100 years for now history books will look at our decision to "teach virtually" as the 2nd biggest crime of the century. I don't particularly care about my district bc we're a district of means and a near 1:1 laptop to student ratio. But what is going on at MPS or Racine Unified, etc. is absolutely horrible. The science shows the spread is not in classroom but teachers' unions are behaving as recklessly as the Tavern League. It's appalling.
I don't think you know enough about the daily lives of teachers in MPS trying to instill just normal rule compliance let alone pandemic rule compliance to make a judgement that they should return to work and get exposed. Yes some communities have proven they can make it work, those communities don't have kids screwing in the halls, fighting every minute, no suspension policies, issues trying to get students to simply not wear hoods or hats let alone masks, and students willing to choke out teachers and get sent right back to class.
MPS is making the right decision.
-
100 years for now history books will look at our decision to "teach virtually" as the 2nd biggest crime of the century.
So, which do you consider virtual learning worse than ... 9/11 or Sandy Hook?
-
I don't think you know enough about the daily lives of teachers in MPS trying to instill just normal rule compliance let alone pandemic rule compliance to make a judgement that they should return to work and get exposed. Yes some communities have proven they can make it work, those communities don't have kids screwing in the halls, fighting every minute, no suspension policies, issues trying to get students to simply not wear hoods or hats let alone masks, and students willing to choke out teachers and get sent right back to class.
MPS is making the right decision.
I've spoken to enough MPS teachers (and other big public school teahcers / admin) who are heartbroken over what their students are going through at home.
-
So, which do you consider virtual learning worse than ... 9/11 or Sandy Hook?
Trump
-
100 years for now history books will look at our decision to "teach virtually" as the 2nd biggest crime of the century. I don't particularly care about my district bc we're a district of means and a near 1:1 laptop to student ratio. But what is going on at MPS or Racine Unified, etc. is absolutely horrible. The science shows the spread is not in classroom but teachers' unions are behaving as recklessly as the Tavern League. It's appalling.
I'm not going to go full hyperbole here, but I have no doubt that teaching virtually is leaving swaths of kids behind. And the inequities of it are astounding.
I do think that in-person instruction, even if its one or two days a week, provides benefits in a safe environment for students and teachers. But IMO it seems like a number of districts aren't really trying.
-
I've spoken to enough MPS teachers (and other big public school teahcers / admin) who are heartbroken over what their students are going through at home.
I have to, I'm literally listening to class being taught in the next room. That being said I stand by my statement that because it is such a disaster at the best of times, it would be a super spreader location and then some in these times. Not to mention the BS admin would pull with teaching sick days for quarantine but that's a non child related topic.
Fun fact though, my fiancé has told me that she feels her top students are doing better because virtually there aren't the ridiculous distractions around them and kids dragging the class down. These kids are actually learning HS algebra not basic arithmetic they have to review in detail every year. Yes there's probably some falling through the cracks but I'd take 10 kids out of 100 learning what they should and being properly educated as opposed to 40 kids learning stuff they should've learned in Grade school and getting their grades padded so the district gets more money.
-
100 years for now history books will look at our decision to "teach virtually" as the 2nd biggest crime of the century. I don't particularly care about my district bc we're a district of means and a near 1:1 laptop to student ratio. But what is going on at MPS or Racine Unified, etc. is absolutely horrible. The science shows the spread is not in classroom but teachers' unions are behaving as recklessly as the Tavern League. It's appalling.
You assume that the bolded is absolutely horrible. In many of these areas, the educational environment in person is absolutely horrible. It is certainly possible, that the virtual environment, is better for students dedicated to learning, as they may not have to deal with the real fear of being beaten, threatened, etc. in school and can focus on learning instead of distractions from unruly students.
-
You assume that the bolded is absolutely horrible. In many of these areas, the educational environment in person is absolutely horrible. It is certainly possible, that the virtual environment, is better for students dedicated to learning, as they may not have to deal with the real fear of being beaten, threatened, etc. in school and can focus on learning instead of distractions from unruly students.
My conversations with teachers in those systems suggests otherwise.
-
Online only is bringing problems to the forefront. Covid did not create these problems, it's just shining a brighter light on them.
-
Just asked and there's been 9 covid cases in my Fiancé's MPS HS in the past 1.5 weeks. It's not at full faculty as a lot of teachers got exemptions from teaching in the building. If every student and teacher was there how much more exposure would there be?
-
Just asked and there's been 9 covid cases in my Fiancé's MPS HS in the past 1.5 weeks. It's not at full faculty as a lot of teachers got exemptions from teaching in the building. If every student and teacher was there how much more exposure would there be?
Ask Fluffy how much transmission is occurring in his school's classrooms. Wear a mask.
-
Just asked and there's been 9 covid cases in my Fiancé's MPS HS in the past 1.5 weeks. It's not at full faculty as a lot of teachers got exemptions from teaching in the building. If every student and teacher was there how much more exposure would there be?
If kids and staff were distanced and compliant? Probably not too many.
-
Hey Lens. Check your PMs please.
-
If kids and staff were distanced and compliant? Probably not too many.
Well yeah but that relates back to my first response to him. If kids were compliant in general at MPS then hell MPS wouldn't have the reputation it does. That's why I stated that I get why in person can work in some places but at MPS? No way.
-
nm
-
Well yeah but that relates back to my first response to him. If kids were compliant in general at MPS then hell MPS wouldn't have the reputation it does. That's why I stated that I get why in person can work in some places but at MPS? No way.
But then deal with the discipline issue. Don't make the entire school suffer because of it.
-
But then deal with the discipline issue. Don't make the entire school suffer because of it.
How do you propose that it gets solved? There's things that are much worse than mask wearing that kids don't get suspended over. If you have a kid choke a teacher and he's back in class the next day because the school can't suspend another minority student how do you intend on enforcing something as small but necessary as mask wearing with discipline?
I don't think it's plausible given the restrictions district admins have set on the schools.
-
40% of high school students are failing in St Paul, MN.
https://www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/education/nearing-end-of-1st-quarter-nearly-40-of-st-paul-public-high-school-students-have-failing-grades/89-d3da0082-10e5-4673-b96c-9502a9044b9b?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/education/nearing-end-of-1st-quarter-nearly-40-of-st-paul-public-high-school-students-have-failing-grades/89-d3da0082-10e5-4673-b96c-9502a9044b9b?__twitter_impression=true)
The education gap for low income and those that lack resources & support vs middle amd upper class kids is going to be staggering in a few years.
-
40% of high school students are failing in St Paul, MN.
The education gap for low income and those that lack resources & support vs middle amd upper class kids is going to be staggering in a few years.
... to be noted, they said 40% is double what it is normally. So we're talking about "only" an additional 20%.
St. Paul is probably one of the better off districts, too. I'd bet if they released the number for Chicago, NYC, Detroit, Philly, etc .. it would be even worse.
-
One thing I haven't seen talked about - perhaps I missed it - is the challenge of staffing. At least a few school districts in my region have had to move to virtual learning because so many faculty members have been forced into quarantine that they don't have enough people to staff their buildings.
And, remember, because the schools that have opened also have to offer remote for those who want/need it (such as students with an at-risk person in the home) staffs already are stretched thin.
-
One thing I haven't seen talked about - perhaps I missed it - is the challenge of staffing. At least a few school districts in my region have had to move to virtual learning because so many faculty members have been forced into quarantine that they don't have enough people to staff their buildings.
And, remember, because the schools that have opened also have to offer remote for those who want/need it (such as students with an at-risk person in the home) staffs already are stretched thin.
There are no easy answers. I know I talk a tough game but as Fluffy noted, there's some hyperbole there. I just think that many places are taking the easy way out and not trying to come up with a solution.
-
our district just went virtual with the HS for 2 weeks huge spike in cases and close contacts this past week. Not sure on exact numbers but enough to shut down school today. As mentioned before their was reckless behavior from students and parents as well. It finally caught up to them at the cost of the kids and families that do things the right way.
Middle school is also virtual until after thanksgiving. elementary school is holding strong although 1 family that had all 4 members test positive sent their 3rd grader who just tested positive to school cause he did not have symptoms.
-
NYC schools back to all distance learning, as of tomorrow.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/18/world/covid-19-coronavirus?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#nyc-will-shutter-public-schools-on-thursday-as-virus-cases-increase
New York City’s entire public school system will shutter on Thursday, Chancellor Richard A. Carranza wrote in an email to school principals, in a worrisome signal that a second wave of the coronavirus has arrived. Schools have been open for in-person instruction for just under eight weeks.
The shutdown — which was prompted by the city reaching a 3 percent test positivity rate over a seven-day rolling average — is perhaps the most significant setback for New York’s recovery since the spring, when the city was a global epicenter of the outbreak.
-
My kid went completely remote learning this week until at least December 7.
The last 2 weeks we've been getting 2 notices a day of "someone testing positive in the school community".
-
What are other school district doing with regards to extracurriculars if school is virtual?
Our district says no extracurriculars if school is virtual.
-
What I still don't understand is how can we be sure that students aren't spreading this asymptomatically? We aren't testing students regularly. Wasn't one of the original theories that kids are spreaders? Can someone help me out?
-
What I still don't understand is how can we be sure that students aren't spreading this asymptomatically? We aren't testing students regularly. Wasn't one of the original theories that kids are spreaders? Can someone help me out?
I have seen that the older the group of children, the more readily they spread. So not much at the elementary level.
-
I have seen that the older the group of children, the more readily they spread. So not much at the elementary level.
But again to Hards’ question: if they aren’t regularly testing the younger kids, and given the fact that younger kids are more frequently asymptomatic, how can we be sure that the younger kids aren’t spreading it in their communities?
I don’t know the answer, but it seems like it could simply be a matter of “we don’t know what we don’t know.“
-
But again to Hards’ question: if they aren’t regularly testing the younger kids, and given the fact that younger kids are more frequently asymptomatic, how can we be sure that the younger kids aren’t spreading it in their communities?
I don’t know the answer, but it seems like it could simply be a matter of “we don’t know what we don’t know.“
My wife teaches elementary school and they are face to face. They have not had 1 case to the staff. They have seen I think 5 kids k-4 test positive from exposure from their parents. 1 school of about 400 kids so that is my experience. They are the only school in our district to not go virtual as well due to an increase in cases.
-
What are other school district doing with regards to extracurriculars if school is virtual?
Our district says no extracurriculars if school is virtual.
We have 2 high schools, 2 middle schools and 2 elementary schools virtual now in our District in what the Superintendent is calling a 'pause' with a temporary switch to virtual. The extracurricular activities are going on still as far as I know. But that only applies to the high schools as there are no extra curricular activities happening in the middle or elementary schools in our District this year.
-
There are no easy answers. I know I talk a tough game but as Fluffy noted, there's some hyperbole there. I just think that many places are taking the easy way out and not trying to come up with a solution.
The Charlotte system’s leaders are getting a lot of shyte because middle schools were supposed to start in-person learning but they had to postpone it till after the new year because of a shortage of bus drivers.
Parents are asking, “You had 3 freakin months to get enough drivers.”
It’s probably not that simple, but I hear what they’re saying.
-
The Charlotte system’s leaders are getting a lot of shyte because middle schools were supposed to start in-person learning but they had to postpone it till after the new year because of a shortage of bus drivers.
Parents are asking, “You had 3 freakin months to get enough drivers.”
It’s probably not that simple, but I hear what they’re saying.
Don’t know what things are like down there, but they are always short of bus drivers around here. My wife works for the school district, and said with Covid a number of the older drivers retired, so they would not have had enough if all the schools had been in-person. It certainly is not for lack of trying to hire them because I always see ads and billboards.
-
Don’t know what things are like down there, but they are always short of bus drivers around here. My wife works for the school district, and said with Covid a number of the older drivers retired, so they would not have had enough if all the schools had been in-person. It certainly is not for lack of trying to hire them because I always see ads and billboards.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the exact problem here.
I guess the angry parents are saying, “But couldn’t you see this coming 3 months and 2 months and 1 month ago? Why did you keep saying middle schools were gonna go back to in-person if you knew this would be a problem?”
-
Don’t know what things are like down there, but they are always short of bus drivers around here. My wife works for the school district, and said with Covid a number of the older drivers retired, so they would not have had enough if all the schools had been in-person. It certainly is not for lack of trying to hire them because I always see ads and billboards.
I was just going to post about the same thing. We were warned this year that there would be a shortage of bus drivers. They have trouble hiring drivers normally and they use a lot of recently retired drivers who don't want to come back now. I would not fault any one having trouble hiring bus drivers now. It's the same with substitutes - they are really hard to come by now...
-
I was just going to post about the same thing. We were warned this year that there would be a shortage of bus drivers. They have trouble hiring drivers normally and they use a lot of recently retired drivers who don't want to come back now. I would not fault any one having trouble hiring bus drivers now. It's the same with substitutes - they are really hard to come by now...
As I said, I think a big part of the deal here is that parents weren’t warned. It was just sprung on them shortly before schools were supposed to go in-person.
-
From AP:
Hundreds of school employees in the U.S. have died of the coronavirus. While children generally have mild cases or no symptoms at all, about 1 in 4 of their teachers have a condition that raises their risk of becoming seriously ill from the virus. Among the victims is fourth-grade Arkansas teacher Susanne Michael, who died less than three months after celebrating the adoption of a former student from a troubled home and two of the girl’s brothers.
https://apnews.com/article/arkansas-jonesboro-teaching-coronavirus-pandemic-5473efa14f6b801bc16a0e6b5c094313?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
-
As I said, I think a big part of the deal here is that parents weren’t warned. It was just sprung on them shortly before schools were supposed to go in-person.
Bus drivers typically run older and retired. Plus they have to carry a CDL and are part time. In good times, drivers are in short supply.
Imagine asking a retired person to get in a bus full of germs (potentially), carry a CDL, and work part time... in a pandemic. I'd be taking the year off if I was driving a school bus and could afford it.
I understand the parents frustration, but it is also very difficult to ask a bunch of bus drivers to be flexible with their schedules for months on end in the hope that school might start up. What is surprising to me, is that the parents couldn't foresee this as a possible outcome. Nothing is 'back to normal' right now.
-
(years of tearing down teachers, cutting pay and benefits, making them scapegoats and political pawns). Where are all of the teachers?
You can write the same thing about bus drivers.
-
From AP:
Hundreds of school employees in the U.S. have died of the coronavirus. While children generally have mild cases or no symptoms at all, about 1 in 4 of their teachers have a condition that raises their risk of becoming seriously ill from the virus. Among the victims is fourth-grade Arkansas teacher Susanne Michael, who died less than three months after celebrating the adoption of a former student from a troubled home and two of the girl’s brothers.
https://apnews.com/article/arkansas-jonesboro-teaching-coronavirus-pandemic-5473efa14f6b801bc16a0e6b5c094313?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
From the same article:
"When cases can be traced back to their source, it is often an informal gathering, a restaurant or a sporting event, not a classroom, said Emily Oster, a Brown University economics professor whose analysis of in-school infection data from all 50 states found that bringing students together in schools does not appear to be driving the spread.
“I don’t think anyone would claim that no one has gotten COVID at a school. That would be unrealistic,” she said. “But in most of the cases we are seeing among people who are affiliated with schools, the actual case was not acquired at a school.”
-
From the same article:
"When cases can be traced back to their source, it is often an informal gathering, a restaurant or a sporting event, not a classroom, said Emily Oster, a Brown University economics professor whose analysis of in-school infection data from all 50 states found that bringing students together in schools does not appear to be driving the spread.
“I don’t think anyone would claim that no one has gotten COVID at a school. That would be unrealistic,” she said. “But in most of the cases we are seeing among people who are affiliated with schools, the actual case was not acquired at a school.”
Reading is fundamental
Pays to read the entire article. In the end it starts at home like so many other things, for the kids and adults.
-
Bus drivers typically run older and retired. Plus they have to carry a CDL and are part time. In good times, drivers are in short supply.
Imagine asking a retired person to get in a bus full of germs (potentially), carry a CDL, and work part time... in a pandemic. I'd be taking the year off if I was driving a school bus and could afford it.
I understand the parents frustration, but it is also very difficult to ask a bunch of bus drivers to be flexible with their schedules for months on end in the hope that school might start up. What is surprising to me, is that the parents couldn't foresee this as a possible outcome. Nothing is 'back to normal' right now.
Not only is it part time (and seasonal), it's also mostly split shift. You might get four hours a day, but the hours are something like 7-9 a.m. and then 2-4 p.m. Not to mention having to deal with the shenanigans of the kids. You couldn't pay me enough to do that job.
-
Not only is it part time (and seasonal), it's also mostly split shift. You might get four hours a day, but the hours are something like 7-9 a.m. and then 2-4 p.m. Not to mention having to deal with the shenanigans of the kids. You couldn't pay me enough to do that job.
Yep.
My wife was a para on a bus for special needs kids for about 2 years. The split shift was a major pain in the butt, so she jumped at the opportunity to take a position in the classroom. 7:30-3:30 instead of the crazy split bus hours.
-
From the same article:
"When cases can be traced back to their source, it is often an informal gathering, a restaurant or a sporting event, not a classroom, said Emily Oster, a Brown University economics professor whose analysis of in-school infection data from all 50 states found that bringing students together in schools does not appear to be driving the spread.
“I don’t think anyone would claim that no one has gotten COVID at a school. That would be unrealistic,” she said. “But in most of the cases we are seeing among people who are affiliated with schools, the actual case was not acquired at a school.”
Thanks, Sultan. I confess that I somehow missed that. It was an important point.
-
My daughter’s high school, where you currently have the option of on line or full time in person just canceled mid terms because they couldn’t ensure students wouldn’t be able to cheat.
-
Found out a girl on the basketball team has covid in my kids district, which caused our girls team to start with 5 players as the rest were quarantined. The girls mom spent this halloween out at the bars and proudly posted pics on facebook. The entire HS is now virtual for 2 weeks with a pause of activities until back in person.
Nothing like adults messing things up for the kids. Seriously how hard it is to stay home
-
Found out a girl on the basketball team has covid in my kids district, which caused our girls team to start with 5 players as the rest were quarantined. The girls mom spent this halloween out at the bars and proudly posted pics on facebook. The entire HS is now virtual for 2 weeks with a pause of activities until back in person.
Nothing like adults messing things up for the kids. Seriously how hard it is to stay home
That totally sucks. People are so selfish.
-
Our District dashboard numbers look great today after a number of schools were switched to virtual for a couple weeks due to a high number of cases and no school Wed-Fri. I fear what the spread will be with all the schools ending their virtual stretches going back face to face and the post-Thanksgiving spread...
-
Found out a girl on the basketball team has covid in my kids district, which caused our girls team to start with 5 players as the rest were quarantined. The girls mom spent this halloween out at the bars and proudly posted pics on facebook. The entire HS is now virtual for 2 weeks with a pause of activities until back in person.
Nothing like adults messing things up for the kids. Seriously how hard it is to stay home
This goes directly to the "if you're so concerned about the virus, just stay home" lie.
The girl who got infected did nothing wrong. Neither did any of her teammates. Neither did others at the school. But because the adult was selfish, it affected numerous others.
It is NOT a personal responsibility thing. It never has been. It is a selfishness issue, an I-don't-give-a-sh!t-about-you-so-shut-up issue.
-
Ohio is changing their policy for quarantining for schools:
https://local12.com/news/local/ohio-changes-quarantine-policies-in-for-school-students-staff?fbclid=IwAR3vVi9dP7Bwfsr_ori5-Km1c3BG3KuIos8Amg9NGuftjY5m8X5dJPWwI_o
-
From the same article:
"When cases can be traced back to their source, it is often an informal gathering, a restaurant or a sporting event, not a classroom, said Emily Oster, a Brown University economics professor whose analysis of in-school infection data from all 50 states found that bringing students together in schools does not appear to be driving the spread.
“I don’t think anyone would claim that no one has gotten COVID at a school. That would be unrealistic,” she said. “But in most of the cases we are seeing among people who are affiliated with schools, the actual case was not acquired at a school.”
Kind of resurrecting an old post, but wanted to comment on the flaws with the quote at the bottom. I will use an anecdotal story, unfortunately. A local elementary school went the December-early January window with peak infectivity with zero cases amongst faculty/staff.
After returning for in person instruction, 6 faculty, were diagnosed with COVID the 2nd week of class (immediately in the window consistent with exposure after in person instruction began). It was deemed that none of these cases were "contracted at school," because they weren't aware of any cases in the school besides these 6. It was decided it must have been at "home" or in the "community" despite the fact of no known exposure at home, or in the community and no at risk behavior amongst the 6.
Why? Because elementary kids are often asymptomatic. Even when symptomatic, parents are reluctant to admit to COVID-19 for fear of backlash, and simply hold their kids out. The same thing happens in colleges, where college kids sometimes travel to neighboring counties so there isn't a requirement of contacting their school. That means there is no connection to "students" as the students and families are hiding their infections, which the "administrators" then simply assign as not school related.
When one does an honest examination of the data. It clearly shows an elevated risk to teachers, that is directly coupled to the likelihood of asymptomatic cases and mask compliance. Where there is about a 50% increased risk for elementary teachers, that declines with increasing age of the student body (13% increased risk at high school).
https://medium.com/swlh/examining-the-data-on-in-person-schooling-and-covid-19-rates-for-teachers-and-school-staff-b8303726ca04
-
Michigan pushing back the start of basketball. Coaches are not happy as kids are not being inundated with messages from out of state prep schools inviting them to come play.
https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/schools-outraged-bars-can-open-michigan-not-winter-sports
-
Kind of resurrecting an old post, but wanted to comment on the flaws with the quote at the bottom. I will use an anecdotal story, unfortunately. A local elementary school went the December-early January window with peak infectivity with zero cases amongst faculty/staff.
After returning for in person instruction, 6 faculty, were diagnosed with COVID the 2nd week of class (immediately in the window consistent with exposure after in person instruction began). It was deemed that none of these cases were "contracted at school," because they weren't aware of any cases in the school besides these 6. It was decided it must have been at "home" or in the "community" despite the fact of no known exposure at home, or in the community and no at risk behavior amongst the 6.
Why? Because elementary kids are often asymptomatic. Even when symptomatic, parents are reluctant to admit to COVID-19 for fear of backlash, and simply hold their kids out. The same thing happens in colleges, where college kids sometimes travel to neighboring counties so there isn't a requirement of contacting their school. That means there is no connection to "students" as the students and families are hiding their infections, which the "administrators" then simply assign as not school related.
When one does an honest examination of the data. It clearly shows an elevated risk to teachers, that is directly coupled to the likelihood of asymptomatic cases and mask compliance. Where there is about a 50% increased risk for elementary teachers, that declines with increasing age of the student body (13% increased risk at high school).
https://medium.com/swlh/examining-the-data-on-in-person-schooling-and-covid-19-rates-for-teachers-and-school-staff-b8303726ca04
I keep hearing the arugment in our District that Covid isn't being transmitted at the schools and that the cases are from extra curricular activities or other sources. But I also wonder how you can really know where everyone is getting it from.
And I'm tired of hearing about the stats about the number of quarantined students who test positive later. That stat is meaningless to me as a lot of the quarantined students aren't being tested later. My youngest was quarantined just before Christmas and we never had her tested as she never had any symptoms but she could have been asymptomatic and had it for all we know.
-
They are finally going to make vaccines available to teachers in NC starting Feb. 24.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article249151310.html?ac_cid=DM383056&ac_bid=-582023405
Teachers' groups have said over and over that they won't feel good about returning to in-person school, especially for middle school and up, until they can get vaccinated. So this is a good thing.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/OpenFCPS2020/status/1361271178078355457
So much for letting the scientists to their thing. Felt bad for CDC director making the rounds on the Sunday shows, was obviously been out in an impossible position.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/OpenFCPS2020/status/1361271178078355457
So much for letting the scientists to their thing. Felt bad for CDC director making the rounds on the Sunday shows, was obviously been out in an impossible position.
If only they had taken input from Princess Sparkle Pony rather than the people that have to implement the guidelines. Opportunity missed I guess.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/OpenFCPS2020/status/1361271178078355457
So much for letting the scientists to their thing. Felt bad for CDC director making the rounds on the Sunday shows, was obviously been out in an impossible position.
Hate feeding the board troll. But.
The science says that opening schools, particularly with high community spread places teachers and staff at significantly elevated risk for acquiring COVID and possibly death. That is what the science says.
Now, the secondary aspect of the CDC is the public policy side. That is required to take into consideration the effect of science-based decisions on stake holders. That is precisely what they did, and came to compromise decisions.
The Trump administration said F the teachers, let them get sick and die, parents want their kids in school...period. That's not how science-based public policy is decided. Science-based public policy takes into consideration all stakeholders.
-
Hate feeding the board troll. But.
The science says that opening schools, particularly with high community spread places teachers and staff at significantly elevated risk for acquiring COVID and possibly death. That is what the science says.
Now, the secondary aspect of the CDC is the public policy side. That is required to take into consideration the effect of science-based decisions on stake holders. That is precisely what they did, and came to compromise decisions.
The Trump administration said F the teachers, let them get sick and die, parents want their kids in school...period. That's not how science-based public policy is decided. Science-based public policy takes into consideration all stakeholders.
What about the schools that don’t have high community spread? The communities that have recently decided to open up in door dining etc because community spread is no longer a concern, what are your thoughts with regarding those communities?
Ahhh now it’s science based public policy, not just follow the science. In this case the stakeholders of parents have no say? So just the stakeholders with deep pockets and political influence (ie teacher unions) can help determine what the CDC guidelines should be.
Does the science not say teachers, kids, etc are at higher risk of infection when out in the community and not in school?
-
What about the schools that don’t have high community spread? The communities that have recently decided to open up in door dining etc because community spread is no longer a concern, what are your thoughts with regarding those communities?
Ahhh now it’s science based public policy, not just follow the science. In this case the stakeholders of parents have no say? So just the stakeholders with deep pockets and political influence (ie teacher unions) can help determine what the CDC guidelines should be.
Does the science not say teachers, kids, etc are at higher risk of infection when out in the community and not in school?
I'd like you to find a place in the country where community spread is no longer a concern. Quite literally one city in which the spread is so tightly controlled that every case is immediate traced and attributed. Any location opening restaurants is either A) ignoring the science or B) making science-informed cases about how best to do so. This is otherwise referred to as a cost/benefit analysis, a risk/reward analysis or (Gasp) science-based public policy.
This will be shocking to you, but we live in a society. In that society, what is best policy may not be practical due to other constraints. Conversely, "follow the science" would mean you lock your doors and never ever leave. There is a balance between them, and unlike the previous administration, the approach is not to simply throw all of the doors of schools and businesses wide open and hope for the best. There are trade-offs everywhere, and informed policy makers try like hell to thread that needle.
I will say that in our school district, we have been too strict and really not made any concerted effort to get back to any inperson classes. I have a three-year-old that we badly wanted in 3K this year, and we even tried to do it remote (hahahaha). It IS frustrating to see the school still closed. Meanwhile, our daycare has proven through only 3 cases since re-opening over the summer that it is possible for toddlers (and adults with the same emotional maturity) and kids to mask all day and control the spread and keep teachers and communities safe.
Bottom line is that reasonable people will fall on both sides of this.
-
Hate feeding the board troll. But.
The science says that opening schools, particularly with high community spread places teachers and staff at significantly elevated risk for acquiring COVID and possibly death. That is what the science says.
Now, the secondary aspect of the CDC is the public policy side. That is required to take into consideration the effect of science-based decisions on stake holders. That is precisely what they did, and came to compromise decisions.
The Trump administration said F the teachers, let them get sick and die, parents want their kids in school...period. That's not how science-based public policy is decided. Science-based public policy takes into consideration all stakeholders.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e3.htm
Is that your opinion or is there science behind it? I ask because the CDC’s own study precisely says that teachers and students are at a lower risk than the general community, even at times of high community spread. Is there still risk? Of course, but opening schools with the proper precautions(mandatory masking, cohorting, etc) can work if done correctly.
Everyone should want teachers vaccinated ASAP and to feel safe in their work environments, I certainly do. But it’s not correct to say that they are at any greater risk than the general community if the proper precautions are taken.
-
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e3.htm
Is that your opinion or is there science behind it? I ask because the CDC’s own study precisely says that teachers and students are at a lower risk than the general community, even at times of high community spread. Is there still risk? Of course, but opening schools with the proper precautions(mandatory masking, cohorting, etc) can work if done correctly.
Everyone should want teachers vaccinated ASAP and to feel safe in their work environments, I certainly do. But it’s not correct to say that they are at any greater risk than the general community if the proper precautions are taken.
The CDC report was wrong. They were guilty of cherry-picking data. This article goes into both the reasons they came to that conclusion, and how a proper examination of all available data shows significantly enhanced risk.
https://medium.com/swlh/examining-the-data-on-in-person-schooling-and-covid-19-rates-for-teachers-and-school-staff-b8303726ca04
-
I'd like you to find a place in the country where community spread is no longer a concern. Quite literally one city in which the spread is so tightly controlled that every case is immediate traced and attributed. Any location opening restaurants is either A) ignoring the science or B) making science-informed cases about how best to do so. This is otherwise referred to as a cost/benefit analysis, a risk/reward analysis or (Gasp) science-based public policy.
This will be shocking to you, but we live in a society. In that society, what is best policy may not be practical due to other constraints. Conversely, "follow the science" would mean you lock your doors and never ever leave. There is a balance between them, and unlike the previous administration, the approach is not to simply throw all of the doors of schools and businesses wide open and hope for the best. There are trade-offs everywhere, and informed policy makers try like hell to thread that needle.
I will say that in our school district, we have been too strict and really not made any concerted effort to get back to any inperson classes. I have a three-year-old that we badly wanted in 3K this year, and we even tried to do it remote (hahahaha). It IS frustrating to see the school still closed. Meanwhile, our daycare has proven through only 3 cases since re-opening over the summer that it is possible for toddlers (and adults with the same emotional maturity) and kids to mask all day and control the spread and keep teachers and communities safe.
Bottom line is that reasonable people will fall on both sides of this.
Agree 100% with this response, thanks for the candor. This risk/benefit analysis should be afforded to everyone. For over a year businesses across the country have not been allowed to make that decision. Parents for over a year in many communities have not been able to make that decision. The hypocrisy and inconsistency in policy is what gets me frustrated.
-
The CDC report was wrong. They were guilty of cherry-picking data. This article goes into both the reasons they came to that conclusion, and how a proper examination of all available data shows significantly enhanced risk.
https://medium.com/swlh/examining-the-data-on-in-person-schooling-and-covid-19-rates-for-teachers-and-school-staff-b8303726ca04
Haha, classic.
-
The CDC report was wrong. They were guilty of cherry-picking data. This article goes into both the reasons they came to that conclusion, and how a proper examination of all available data shows significantly enhanced risk.
https://medium.com/swlh/examining-the-data-on-in-person-schooling-and-covid-19-rates-for-teachers-and-school-staff-b8303726ca04
With respect, the author of that article admits a bias within the first two paragraphs of the article, not exactly very scientific. That said, this article does not address the CDC study I listed above which was done in Wisconsin by the CDC and not in New York or Texas by some group called the Rockefeller Foundation.
-
With respect, the author of that article admits a bias within the first two paragraphs of the article, not exactly very scientific. That said, this article does not address the CDC study I listed above which was done in Wisconsin by the CDC and not in New York or Texas by some group called the Rockefeller Foundation.
Actually, admitting he has connections to a school teacher, is scientific. That is a disclosure consistent with good science.
The data, though, is the key. The data doesn't lie, he presents both the original CDC/Rockefeller data, and the complete data sets it was taken from. His data is very clear, and as far as one can rely on statistics, scientific.
It also does an important thing, that the one you linked (sorry I thought it was the widespread CDC/Rockefeller one; that's 100% on me for assuming) does not (a fatal flaw in their study). They compare COVID incidence rate between educators/staff and the general public, which clearly shows enhanced risk in teachers that coincides with the expected increase in asymptomatic cases in young children.
The study you linked, claims 0 cases in staff that was **confirmed to be due to spread in schools.
They automatically assume that if everyone is masked, and are not in close contact for over 15 minutes, then there was no spread. Further, it relies on known and confirmed cases of kids in school, meaning there is zero possibility of asymptomatic spread, which is the predominant route of spread from kids. It is an extremely unscientific study, as their are known and obvious flaws that they neither address or acknowledge.
I'll add one additional caveat for why the risk to teachers may be even higher. The study I linked assumed external risk factors are the same. My hypothesis is that assumption is invalid, and that teachers are generally more risk averse (meaning no social gathering, eating out, etc) than the general public. That hypothesis would need to be tested by examining behavior outside of school across the teacher/staff population.
-
Actually, admitting he has connections to a school teacher, is scientific. That is a disclosure consistent with good science.
The data, though, is the key. The data doesn't lie, he presents both the original CDC/Rockefeller data, and the complete data sets it was taken from. His data is very clear, and as far as one can rely on statistics, scientific.
It also does an important thing, that the one you linked (sorry I thought it was the widespread CDC/Rockefeller one; that's 100% on me for assuming) does not (a fatal flaw in their study). They compare COVID incidence rate between educators/staff and the general public, which clearly shows enhanced risk in teachers that coincides with the expected increase in asymptomatic cases in young children.
The study you linked, claims 0 cases in staff that was **confirmed to be due to spread in schools.
They automatically assume that if everyone is masked, and are not in close contact for over 15 minutes, then there was no spread. Further, it relies on known and confirmed cases of kids in school, meaning there is zero possibility of asymptomatic spread, which is the predominant route of spread from kids. It is an extremely unscientific study, as their are known and obvious flaws that they neither address or acknowledge.
I'll add one additional caveat for why the risk to teachers may be even higher. The study I linked assumed external risk factors are the same. My hypothesis is that assumption is invalid, and that teachers are generally more risk averse (meaning no social gathering, eating out, etc) than the general public. That hypothesis would need to be tested by examining behavior outside of school across the teacher/staff population.
The article you posted is a secondary statistical analysis of data that assumes that every case of covid had to be acquired at school. And since you believe that teachers are naturally risk averse, you believe that teachers must have acquired it at school. That is fine and good, but without contact tracing its nothing more than opinion and should not be used to drive public policy.
As for the study I posted, it followed and contact traced known positive cases for a prolonged period of time during heavy community transmission. Is it possible that there was some asymptomatic spread from
Children? Yes of course, but as the study points to, asymptotic spread has a lower attack rate with shared households than previously thought and people in those settings are highly unlikely to be masked whereas kids in school are. Also some seroprevalence testing of school aged children in Europe shows kids with covid ABs are at the same or lower levels than the general population. So with that said, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that the overwhelming majority of teacher and staff cases came from outside sources. Can you anyone say for sure though, not really.
Again this isn’t to say there isn’t some risk to in person learning, there absolutely is but it’s not any riskier than what is considered responsible behavior during covid.
-
Children need to be in school. Even if it is part time. The 100% remote option isn't good for most children or parents.
-
The article you posted is a secondary statistical analysis of data that assumes that every case of covid had to be acquired at school. And since you believe that teachers are naturally risk averse, you believe that teachers must have acquired it at school. That is fine and good, but without contact tracing its nothing more than opinion and should not be used to drive public policy.
As for the study I posted, it followed and contact traced known positive cases for a prolonged period of time during heavy community transmission. Is it possible that there was some asymptomatic spread from
Children? Yes of course, but as the study points to, asymptotic spread has a lower attack rate with shared households than previously thought and people in those settings are highly unlikely to be masked whereas kids in school are. Also some seroprevalence testing of school aged children in Europe shows kids with covid ABs are at the same or lower levels than the general population. So with that said, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that the overwhelming majority of teacher and staff cases came from outside sources. Can you anyone say for sure though, not really.
Again this isn’t to say there isn’t some risk to in person learning, there absolutely is but it’s not any riskier than what is considered responsible behavior during covid.
The article I posted does not do as you suggest. Rather, it assumes that teachers/staff are roughly equivalent in behavior as the rest of the population in their communities. So, any difference in COVID-19 cases is most likely attributed to differences in exposure at work.
Doing so clearly shows that teachers experience elevated rates of COVID-19 than the rest of the community. That elevated risk is enhanced with high-community spread.
That is how all risk analyses are done, and how they establish relative COVID-19 risk for different subgroups, and different professions, because it is the most accurate way to establish relative risk factors.
The CDC report you cite, abandoned the traditional analysis, and traditional approach. The question one should ask is why? The answer is fairly simple...it didn't yield the outcome that they desired.
-
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2021/2/15/22280763/kids-covid-vaccine-teachers-unions-schools-reopening-cdc?utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
When Vox is publishing pieces supporting the reopening of schools you know you’re losing the battle.
-
NC legislature just passed a bill mandating in-person school.
It is not known if the governor will veto it, although it passed with bipartisan support and they could override the veto if he does.
What enabled it to pass was the resolution of a detail worked out over the weekend, adding that local school districts will create plans to address alternative work assignments for teachers at high risk for COVID-19, and give the same options for those who are caretakers of children at higher risk.
It seems pretty fair, given everything.
-
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/thousands-students-reported-missing-school-systems-nationwide-amid/story?id=76063922&__twitter_impression=true
An absolute travesty, how we continue to largely turn a blind eye to this is beyond me. Title says thousands but in the article it says up to 3 million kids are now “unaccounted” for in the school system, what a mess.
-
Tangentially .. I'm WFH so see what my kids do w/virtual school. I audited their schedules a while ago and asked them to honestly describe the amount of time they spend on each class, the zoom call, the video, the work to be done, etc.
Totaling it up got me to 21 hours per week, versus 32 in a regular year. That's just a gigantic loss of educational time over ~7 months.
When we had a snow day and the school did *not* just flip to virtual that day, I was ticked off, but on the other hand, the loss of time was already the equivalent of 65 snow days that year .. what's a 66th?
-
Tangentially .. I'm WFH so see what my kids do w/virtual school. I audited their schedules a while ago and asked them to honestly describe the amount of time they spend on each class, the zoom call, the video, the work to be done, etc.
Totaling it up got me to 21 hours per week, versus 32 in a regular year. That's just a gigantic loss of educational time over ~7 months.
When we had a snow day and the school did *not* just flip to virtual that day, I was ticked off, but on the other hand, the loss of time was already the equivalent of 65 snow days that year .. what's a 66th?
i don't have kids myself nor do I understand the dynamics of what it would take to implement, but I've been semi-joking/semi-serious with my siblings (who all do have kids) that there needs to be a "COVID catchup year" option for parents who think their children need to repeat a grade. No questions asked. Open it up for this year... or next year if they aren't able to succeed at the next level. Throw some stimulous at the school system to absorb the extra class sizes and give teachers more leniency in making the call as well. I don't see how we can pretend that the past 12 months as anywhere near normal in terms of educational gains.
-
My younger daughter goes back to high school full time in person on March 29. No more hybrid.
Masks required and social distancing still in effect.
-
My younger daughter goes back to high school full time in person on March 29. No more hybrid.
Masks required and social distancing still in effect.
At the high school level, and in Connecticut (where I think they are now vaccinating teachers), this is a good thing, if they can require masks and have low enough class totals to maintain social distancing.
The latter two are key. The majority of schools in this country cannot maintain social distancing requirements, and refuse to hire more staff to do so. So they cannot meet the requirements that demonstrate safe-reopening.
Then you have the TX announcement, where they can neither maintain proper social distancing due to class loads, and also now will not require masks.
A total clash of situations. Opening schools can be achieved safely, Connecticut is following sound logic and guidance and getting the kids back in school. TX is saying essentially, that teachers need to "shut up and teach...(and die)".
-
Thankfully our District has said they will require masks whether there is a state mask mandate or not (and I never know how long the Wisconsin one will remain in place). There's not enough social distancing that can happen so they really need to be wearing masks in the schools right now.
Teacher vaccinations are supposed to be starting up this week but teachers have had appointments canceled even though they're technically eligible and are scrambling to find an appointment elsewhere. I wish our District did what New Berlin did - they secured the vaccine for all their teachers and are having a virtual day on Tuesday for the kids so all their staff can get their first shot. Our District left it up to the teachers to do on their own and it's been a big mess.
-
At the high school level, and in Connecticut (where I think they are now vaccinating teachers), this is a good thing, if they can require masks and have low enough class totals to maintain social distancing.
The latter two are key. The majority of schools in this country cannot maintain social distancing requirements, and refuse to hire more staff to do so. So they cannot meet the requirements that demonstrate safe-reopening.
Then you have the TX announcement, where they can neither maintain proper social distancing due to class loads, and also now will not require masks.
A total clash of situations. Opening schools can be achieved safely, Connecticut is following sound logic and guidance and getting the kids back in school. TX is saying essentially, that teachers need to "shut up and teach...(and die)".
Wow you’re real mad at Texas. Why not that same anger at MS? He also encouraged people to wear masks if they’d like, stay at home if you’d like blah blah.
You’re acting like he’s individually going around ripping masks off and spitting in their faces with your over the top response to these decisions.
-
At the high school level, and in Connecticut (where I think they are now vaccinating teachers), this is a good thing, if they can require masks and have low enough class totals to maintain social distancing.
The latter two are key. The majority of schools in this country cannot maintain social distancing requirements, and refuse to hire more staff to do so. So they cannot meet the requirements that demonstrate safe-reopening.
Then you have the TX announcement, where they can neither maintain proper social distancing due to class loads, and also now will not require masks.
A total clash of situations. Opening schools can be achieved safely, Connecticut is following sound logic and guidance and getting the kids back in school. TX is saying essentially, that teachers need to "shut up and teach...(and die)".
My wife, a teacher in Connecticut, gets her first vaccine shot today.
-
My wife, a teacher in Connecticut, gets her first vaccine shot today.
👏👏 CT is doing a helluva a job in their vaccination rollout from what I’ve read. Your gov needs to get on the horn and call Cuomo to share some helpful tips.
-
Wow you’re real mad at Texas. Why not that same anger at MS? He also encouraged people to wear masks if they’d like, stay at home if you’d like blah blah.
You’re acting like he’s individually going around ripping masks off and spitting in their faces with your over the top response to these decisions.
I hadn't seen the MS news, Texas because of it's size, and because people posted about it on here, has dominated story lines. The same applies for the Governor of MS.
The anger is because from a health, scientific, and economic point of view, the decisions are moronic. The decisions will kill people. I tend to have a problem with politicians that make decisions, that will kill people. There was no reason from a legal standpoint that this was done, so it was completely for political gain. I'm sorry that you are ok with that, it says a lot about your character.
Further, now people with health issues that can't get vaccinated, have no choice but to stay home, and completely leave the economy. They can't have even a modicum of security, by others having to wear a mask to protect them, at no cost to anyone, and a benefit to all.
-
I hadn't seen the MS news, Texas because of it's size, and because people posted about it on here, has dominated story lines. The same applies for the Governor of MS.
The anger is because from a health, scientific, and economic point of view, the decisions are moronic. The decisions will kill people. I tend to have a problem with politicians that make decisions, that will kill people. There was no reason from a legal standpoint that this was done, so it was completely for political gain. I'm sorry that you are ok with that, it says a lot about your character.
Further, now people with health issues that can't get vaccinated, have no choice but to stay home, and completely leave the economy. They can't have even a modicum of security, by others having to wear a mask to protect them, at no cost to anyone, and a benefit to all.
That’s a fair point to make and I’d take your argument a lot more serious if it was consistent. I’m old enough to remember when you were defending cuomos nursing home policy and shifting blame to cdc policy.
Texas death rate per capital remains one of the best in the country. Abbot should be applauded for the job he’s done down there in protecting life. If in 8-10 weeks there is a drastic change in their trend line then he should be held accountable.
-
.. there needs to be a "COVID catchup year" option for parents who think their children need to repeat a grade.
On the other hand .. Interestingly, my middle school .. at the beginning of the year, they realized they needed to condense the year's learning, there's less instructional time, they need to chop out some material, right?
Turns out, their math classes had a "Compressed" level already for kids who could handle a faster pace. (Basically, math for smart kids.)
This year, they threw everyone into the compressed class. Guess what? They all survived and did well enough that going forward, they realized they should put ALL kids in the compressed class and got rid of the basic level class.
What does this mean? It means in the past, their students could handle more at a faster pace, and it was a matter of routine to have wasted potential.
So .. a make-up COVID year? Nah. Keep 'em moving. They'll adjust.
The finer-tipped comment is .. the upper half of students will be roughly fine. The next quarter will take a step back. The bottom quarter will still be the bottom quarter.
-
👏👏 CT is doing a helluva a job in their vaccination rollout from what I’ve read. Your gov needs to get on the horn and call Cuomo to share some helpful tips.
He's actually known Cuomo a long time and speaks with him regularly.
-
The anger is because from a health, scientific, and economic point of view, the decisions are moronic. The decisions will kill people. I tend to have a problem with politicians that make decisions, that will kill people. There was no reason from a legal standpoint that this was done, so it was completely for political gain.
I think, in great part but maybe not completely, the argument is not about masks/no masks or other measures to keep people safe, but fundamentally it is about whether or not it is a function of government to inform and enforce public health mandates. I agree with you 100% that that is a main function of government in my opinion (assuming you hold that view, but it appears so from your posts), but the one's clamoring for freedom, I believe do not think that is a role of the government. They believe that people will choose to do the right thing in many cases.
As in many other cases, they are wrong.
-
The Marquette Law School hosted a webinar earlier this week on What Is Being Learned in K-12 Education in this Difficult Year - https://youtu.be/fAPojLlT8P4 (https://youtu.be/fAPojLlT8P4)
The first session draws on the Center on Reinventing Public Education at the University of Washington, which has been closely monitoring and analyzing schooling trends nationwide.
Then four Milwaukee education leaders describe what has happened for their schools and what they have learned. Mike Gousha, distinguished fellow in law and public policy, will moderate a panel with Matthew Joynt, superintendent of the Mequon-Thiensville School District; Jennifer Lopez, CEO of Carmen Schools of Science and Technology; Keith Posley, superintendent of Milwaukee Public Schools; and James Sebert, superintendent of the School District of Waukesha.
-
The Marquette Law School hosted a webinar earlier this week on What Is Being Learned in K-12 Education in this Difficult Year - https://youtu.be/fAPojLlT8P4 (https://youtu.be/fAPojLlT8P4)
The first session draws on the Center on Reinventing Public Education at the University of Washington, which has been closely monitoring and analyzing schooling trends nationwide.
Then four Milwaukee education leaders describe what has happened for their schools and what they have learned. Mike Gousha, distinguished fellow in law and public policy, will moderate a panel with Matthew Joynt, superintendent of the Mequon-Thiensville School District; Jennifer Lopez, CEO of Carmen Schools of Science and Technology; Keith Posley, superintendent of Milwaukee Public Schools; and James Sebert, superintendent of the School District of Waukesha.
So that was J Lo does when she's between tours?
-
Yikes! Researchers who work CDC cited to help put together school guidelines coming in hot claiming they misinterpreted their findings and that schools should be open now.
So much for giving scientists their voice back. So thankful to live in a community where the local district leadership applied logic and reason to their mitigation and in person learning strategies. Full face to face from the tip with no significant issues!!
-
Yikes! Researchers who work CDC cited to help put together school guidelines coming in hot claiming they misinterpreted their findings and that schools should be open now.
Link?
-
Full face mask to face mask from the tip with no significant issues!!
FIFY
-
Link?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/03/09/cdc-school-opening-covid-rules-guidance-column/4628552001/
-
FIFY
Haha, yes good catch! Like I said the school board and district leadership used logic and reason with proper mitigation measures.
-
NC elementary school closes after 17 kids test positive for COVID, 95 in quarantine
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article250310269.html?ac_cid=DM417079&ac_bid=-92574378
A North Carolina elementary school switched temporarily to remote learning on Tuesday after nearly 100 students were quarantined due to a “surge” in COVID-19 cases, school and health officials said.
W.M. Irvin Elementary School in Concord was closed after 17 students tested positive for the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, and 95 students were quarantined, Cabarrus Health Alliance officials said. The alliance is Cabarrus County’s health department.
The totals represent about 19% of students at the school, officials said.
-
NC elementary school closes after 17 kids test positive for COVID, 95 in quarantine
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article250310269.html?ac_cid=DM417079&ac_bid=-92574378
A North Carolina elementary school switched temporarily to remote learning on Tuesday after nearly 100 students were quarantined due to a “surge” in COVID-19 cases, school and health officials said.
W.M. Irvin Elementary School in Concord was closed after 17 students tested positive for the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, and 95 students were quarantined, Cabarrus Health Alliance officials said. The alliance is Cabarrus County’s health department.
The totals represent about 19% of students at the school, officials said.A North Carolina elementary school switched temporarily to remote learning on Tuesday after nearly 100 students were quarantined due to a “surge” in COVID-19 cases, school and health officials said.
W.M. Irvin Elementary School in Concord was closed after 17 students tested positive for the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, and 95 students were quarantined, Cabarrus Health Alliance officials said. The alliance is Cabarrus County’s health department.
The totals represent about 19% of students at the school, officials said.
Was this written by a bot? Why does the information repeat like 4 times?
-
.
-
I'm interested to see the follow-up story to this in about a month. Will there be any hospitalizations or deaths attributed to this "surge"? Or will there even be a follow-up story if there aren't any?
-
Having a hospitalization surge in Michigan right now.
-
Was this written by a bot? Why does the information repeat like 4 times?
Sorry about that. I think I made a cut-and-paste error. Fixed.
-
I'm interested to see the follow-up story to this in about a month. Will there be any hospitalizations or deaths attributed to this "surge"? Or will there even be a follow-up story if there aren't any?
Given that they are elementary students, there is a very good chance there won’t be any hospitalizations from this group. The more direct risk is that continued spread will contribute to the development of variants. If that happens often enough, any immediate health issues among these 17 elementary students might be the least of our problems.
For a look at what the development and spread of variants can eventually lead to, check out Michigan’s latest hospitalization numbers. You won’t see that within a month as a result of this outbreak, but if it continues repeating around the country over the next several weeks, we will see the cumulative effects by this summer and fall.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/health/2021/03/31/michigan-covid-hospitalizations-concerns-grow-as-more-younger-adults-are-in-icu/#//
-
Here in MN, the B117 variant now accounts for about half of new cases...and we are seeing spread directly tied to schools, kids getting much sicker than before, and hospitalizations increasing.
Notably, Dr. Michael Osterholm from the U of MN was once a very vocal proponent of in-person schooling. With the B117 variant spreading in the schools and kids getting sicker, he seems to be rethinking that position.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/04/05/as-schools-reopen-covid19-cases-climb
“Right here in Minnesota we’re now seeing the other aspect of this B117 variant that hasn’t been talked much about,” he said. “It infects kids very readily. Unlike the previous strains of the virus, we didn’t see children under 8th grade get infected often or they were not frequently very ill. They didn’t transmit to the rest of the community. That was why I was one of those people very strongly supporting in-person learning. B117 turns that on its head.”
---------------
Never be afraid to learn as the virus changes and the data changes along with it. Science.
-
All anybody can talk about when it comes to education is how far kids have fallen behind because of lack of in-person schooling.
NC is looking at options for the next school year, and is leaning toward starting the year a couple weeks early and making the year longer to help get everybody up to speed.
Well, the NC tourism industry is pi$$ed because they don't want kids in school for most of August.
"Yes, kids need school ... unless it takes money out of our pockets."
People who have to make decisions just can't win.
-
All anybody can talk about when it comes to education is how far kids have fallen behind because of lack of in-person schooling.
NC is looking at options for the next school year, and is leaning toward starting the year a couple weeks early and making the year longer to help get everybody up to speed.
Well, the NC tourism industry is pi$$ed because they don't want kids in school for most of August.
"Yes, kids need school ... unless it takes money out of our pockets."
People who have to make decisions just can't win.
I see why they may want to do that but it might be a little late to be making that decision. I bet a lot of people already have vacations planned based on what the previously announced first day of school is supposed to be in the fall. And there are people who have already signed their kids up for camps where you can't get refunds I would think.
-
It's a law in WI .. no public school before Sept 1, entirely because of the tourism lobby.
-
I see why they may want to do that but it might be a little late to be making that decision. I bet a lot of people already have vacations planned based on what the previously announced first day of school is supposed to be in the fall. And there are people who have already signed their kids up for camps where you can't get refunds I would think.
It's pretty funny (sad?) that vacations and camps would take priority over school after a year like we just went through.
-
It's pretty funny (sad?) that vacations and camps would take priority over school after a year like we just went through.
Not after kids have had a summer and multiple sports seasons ruined.
-
We should have year-round school nationwide anyway
-
We should have year-round school nationwide anyway
agree.
-
All anybody can talk about when it comes to education is how far kids have fallen behind because of lack of in-person schooling.
NC is looking at options for the next school year, and is leaning toward starting the year a couple weeks early and making the year longer to help get everybody up to speed.
Well, the NC tourism industry is pi$$ed because they don't want kids in school for most of August.
"Yes, kids need school ... unless it takes money out of our pockets."
People who have to make decisions just can't win.
For the decision makers the “win” was getting kids back in school 7 months ago when it become very clear there was a safe way of doing so.
So so so thankful to have lived in a community that made many of the right decisions so aside from a lot of mask wearing our kids lives were minimally impacted. Got to play all their sports, see their buddies/ teachers at school everyday, and there were very minimal disruptions via contactvtravings etc.
-
For the decision makers the “win” was getting kids back in school 7 months ago when it become very clear there was a safe way of doing so.
So so so thankful to have lived in a community that made many of the right decisions so aside from a lot of mask wearing our kids lives were minimally impacted. Got to play all their sports, see their buddies/ teachers at school everyday, and there were very minimal disruptions via contactvtravings etc.
Glad for you, too.
Not after kids have had a summer and multiple sports seasons ruined.
Yes, that is a very valid point.
-
It's pretty funny (sad?) that vacations and camps would take priority over school after a year like we just went through.
There's money invested in vacations and camp - can't imagine people would be thrilled to throw that money out the window. And for me my 3rd grader was face to face all school year and my 8th grader did fine with hybrid. I hate that school doesn't start until Sep. 1st for us and wouldn't mind it starting sooner in general - just hard to do suddenly when it was planned to have a Sep. 1st start. They'd also have to do something in Wisconsin about the law they have in place that public schools can't start until Sep. 1st without an exception and they only have so many excpetions that they give out now. Not saying it can't be worked around - it's just something that would have to be considered in Wisconsin.
-
Our school District eliminated quarantines for close contacts recently which now present a complication for the postseason for sports due to WIAA rules. There's a chance they may try to remove the mask requirment this week - hoping that stays in place through the end of the 20-21 school year - I don't think it will extend beyond that - just want it in place through the end of this school year...
-
Our school District eliminated quarantines for close contacts recently which now present a complication for the postseason for sports due to WIAA rules. There's a chance they may try to remove the mask requirment this week - hoping that stays in place through the end of the 20-21 school year - I don't think it will extend beyond that - just want it in place through the end of this school year...
Keep the masks on for the rest of the year. Finish the year on a good note, not going back to quarantined classes and remote "learning".
-
There's like 19 days of classes left. Just keep the damn masks on a tiny bit longer.
-
Keep the masks on for the rest of the year. Finish the year on a good note, not going back to quarantined classes and remote "learning".
Agreed.
Get EVERYONE back to in-person in the fall
How do people feel about public schools making vaccines mandatory to return?
Apologies if this has been discussed and I missed it
-
Ah no, give me less government, hey?
-
Get the kids back to school and people get back to their office. IMO, enough is enough and time to get 100% back to normal.
As 4ever noted, less government is a good thing, way less government is a better thing.
-
Ah no, give me less government, hey?
Do you feel the same about all vaccines for kids?
-
Great question, at this point in time I would not be so quick to immunize my children if they were under the age of 12. Most importantly, young children, should they contract covid, may show symptoms, but are virtually in no danger of hospitalization or death. Flu is a far greater concern for kids than covid. Secondly, while the science shows the vaccine to be safe, we still don't know the long term effects on children. So, the short answer is no, hey?
-
Great question, at this point in time I would not be so quick to immunize my children if they were under the age of 12. Most importantly, young children, should they contract covid, may show symptoms, but are virtually in no danger of hospitalization or death. Flu is a far greater concern for kids than covid. Secondly, while the science shows the vaccine to be safe, we still don't know the long term effects on children. So, the short answer is no, hey?
I was referring to Polio, MMR, etc
-
Great question, at this point in time I would not be so quick to immunize my children if they were under the age of 12. Most importantly, young children, should they contract covid, may show symptoms, but are virtually in no danger of hospitalization or death. Flu is a far greater concern for kids than covid. Secondly, while the science shows the vaccine to be safe, we still don't know the long term effects on children. So, the short answer is no, hey?
Lol. Of course....
-
There's like 19 days of classes left. Just keep the damn masks on a tiny bit longer.
Yes that's my philosophy exactly. Our school board meets on May 12th and the last day of school is June 9th. The administration had already said the mask requirement would remain in place until the end of the school year once the mask mandate was overturned in Wisconsin. I didn't take their word for that though as I knew the school board can choose to do whatever they want about the masks and they don't have to listen to the recommendation from the administration.
-
You know I didn't realize Covid was over - our school board voted to remove pretty much any and all Covid restrictions immediately tonight. It's beyond me why they couldn't have left the frickin mask requirement in place until the end of the school year on June 9th - at least give parents a chance to get 12-15 year olds vaccinated - those that want to do so of course. And kids under 12 can't be vaccinated at all yet of course.
Oh wait I guess there is still one restriction in place - you are technically required to quarantine still if you are Covid positive but that's about all that's left - you don't have to quarantine even if someone in your household is Covid positive and close contact quarantines were done as of last week also (I have more of an issue with no quarantine required if someone in your same household has Covid than I do with getting rid of the close contact quarantines).
-
Amazingly we made it until this week of the school year to get our first close contact. A girl who sits next to my daughter (3 feet apart) tested positive. The 3 other kids in her "pod / cohort" have all tested negative.
Masks work.
-
Amazingly we made it until this week of the school year to get our first close contact. A girl who sits next to my daughter (3 feet apart) tested positive. The 3 other kids in her "pod / cohort" have all tested negative.
Masks work.
Glad to hear your daughter didn't get COVID-19, Lens.
-
Glad to hear your daughter didn't get COVID-19, Lens.
This was another W in the column of no in school spread. We had cases pop up from time to time and for a while it was multiple a week but we never saw any student to student spread. Cases always seemed to arise from adults letting their guard down and in turn passing it on to their children.
-
Amazingly we made it until this week of the school year to get our first close contact. A girl who sits next to my daughter (3 feet apart) tested positive. The 3 other kids in her "pod / cohort" have all tested negative.
Masks work.
Hope your daughter stays healthy.
Yeah I think masks were the most effective mitigation strategy and had wanted to see that requirement stay in place through the end of the school year to at least let parents get the 12-15 year olds vaccinated (those that want to get their kids vaccinated of course).
-
Hope your daughter stays healthy.
Yeah I think masks were the most effective mitigation strategy and had wanted to see that requirement stay in place through the end of the school year to at least let parents get the 12-15 year olds vaccinated (those that want to get their kids vaccinated of course).
I should have stated that more clearly, she and the 3 others in her cohort all tested negative and their timeframe now puts them out of danger. The point being, something I've preached from day 1...people should wear masks and kids should be in school.
-
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/20/us/texas-face-masks-public-schools/index.html
For the legal scholars amongst us, curious as to how something like this is legal.
If schools (and in some states any government entity) can't create their own facemask rule, why can they create dress codes, or forbid certain types of clothing (e.g. short skirts, gang colors).
If one is up to the schools for the purpose of safety, should't they all be up to schools. What if a school said their dress code policy required a mask?
-
I should have stated that more clearly, she and the 3 others in her cohort all tested negative and their timeframe now puts them out of danger. The point being, something I've preached from day 1...people should wear masks and kids should be in school.
No problem - I just misunderstood as I often do :).
I agree and think the masks and other mitigation procedures in place were helpful for my elementary school student to be face to face all year and my middle school student to be face to face most of the year (a hybrid schedule for some of the year). But I'm still very dismayed they removed the mask requirement now in our District - really think it should have remained in place through the end of the school year.
-
A season-opening, big-rivalry football game in Charlotte, scheduled for this coming Friday, was just canceled because of positive COVID-19 cases within one of the programs.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/high-school/article253535534.html?
-
Georgia being Georgia, lots and lots of school districts have no mask mandates, and Gov. Brian Kemp is dead-set against them.
Well ...
From the AP:
In Georgia, where in-person classes are on hold in more than 20 districts that started the school year without mask requirements, some superintendents say the virus appeared to be spreading in schools before they sent students home.
“We just couldn’t manage it with that much staff out, having to cover classes and the spread so rapid,” said Eddie Morris, superintendent of the 1,050-student Johnson County district in Georgia. With 40% of students in quarantine or isolation, the district shifted last week to online instruction until Sept. 13.
More than 1 of every 100 school-aged children has tested positive for COVID-19 in the past two weeks in Georgia, according to state health data published Friday. Children age 5 to 17 are currently more likely to test positive for COVID-19 than adults.
-
I think they should extend the mask requirements just until the end of this year. After that let's open it back up.
-
I think they should extend the mask requirements just until the end of this year. After that let's open it back up.
I think we shouldn't put a time stamp on it, but instead keep it until school age children have had the chance to get vaccinated.
-
Florida judge throws out DeSantis' ridiculous, obviously political ban on school mask mandates.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/us/florida-mask-mandates-school-ruling.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210827&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=67446&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
A Florida court on Friday rejected an effort by Gov. Ron DeSantis and other state officials to prevent mask mandates in schools during the state’s worst Covid-19 outbreak yet.
Judge John C. Cooper of the state’s Second Judicial Circuit said that Florida’s school districts may impose strict mask mandates on students to curb the spread of the coronavirus, handing a defeat to Governor DeSantis, whose administration has vehemently insisted on leaving masking decisions to children’s parents.
In a lengthy ruling from the bench, Judge Cooper sided with parents of students in various school districts who had argued that Florida’s Constitution requires keeping schoolchildren safe and secure, and masks would help accomplish that in a pandemic. Florida had previously indicated that it would appeal any adverse ruling to a more conservative appellate court.
Lawyers for Mr. DeSantis, a Republican, and the Florida Department of Education had countered that a “parents’ bill of rights” enacted by state lawmakers earlier this year gave parents the right to decide if their child should wear a mask. Judge Cooper disagreed, saying the new law “doesn’t ban mask mandates” and in fact gives school districts the discretion to impose them.
-
That time when an unvaccinated teacher momentarily took off her mask and infected half her class, who went on the infect other students, siblings and parents.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/elementary-school-teacher-took-off-160807740.html
-
That time when an unvaccinated teacher momentarily took off her mask and infected half her class, who went on the infect other students, siblings and parents.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/elementary-school-teacher-took-off-160807740.html
So is the problem the teachers union in SF not having a vaccine mandate in place or is the complaint the mask mandate for kids proved to be useless?
Thankfully the kids are either asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms!
-
So is the problem the teachers union in SF not having a vaccine mandate in place or is the complaint the mask mandate for kids proved to be useless?
Thankfully the kids are either asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms!
Given that this occurred at a private elementary school Marin County, I'm not sure why you believe the San Francisco teachers union was involved.
And, as usual, you don't understand the point of masks. (Or, perhaps even worse, you understand, but are playing dumb because you like to troll).
-
Given that this occurred at a private elementary school Marin County, I'm not sure why you believe the San Francisco teachers union was involved.
And, as usual, you don't understand the point of masks. (Or, perhaps even worse, you understand, but are playing dumb because you like to troll).
1) Plenty of private school teachers are members of local or national teacher unions. But you’re right, I was wrong to assume this teacher is part of one.
2) I guess I don’t know how masks work. I do understand the talking point of wearing a mask isnt meant to protect you but it will protect others however I have a hard time connecting the dots of how Covid can get into a mask but not exit the mask, unless there is one way air flow technology in these cloth masks I’m not aware of.
3) I’m not a troll, been informed I’m even worse. A sea lion!!
If you believe masks on kids are justified to protect the unvaccinated teachers. Do you also believe mask mandates should be dropped in schools where 100% teacher/employee are vaccinated?
-
2) I guess I don’t know how masks work. I do understand the talking point of wearing a mask isnt meant to protect you but it will protect others however I have a hard time connecting the dots of how Covid can get into a mask but not exit the mask, unless there is one way air flow technology in these cloth masks I’m not aware of.
"In summary, there is laboratory-based evidence that household masks have filtration capacity in the relevant particle size range, as well as efficacy in blocking aerosols and droplets from the wearer (67). That is, these masks help people keep their emissions to themselves"
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
Do masks protect the people wearing them or the people around them?
“I think there’s enough evidence to say that the best benefit is for people who have COVID-19 to protect them from giving COVID-19 to other people, but you’re still going to get a benefit from wearing a mask if you don’t have COVID-19,” said Chin-Hong.
Masks may be more effective as a “source control” because they can prevent larger expelled droplets from evaporating into smaller droplets that can travel farther.
Another factor to remember, noted Rutherford, is that you could still catch the virus through the membranes in your eyes, a risk that masking does not eliminate.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
-
That time when an unvaccinated teacher momentarily took off her mask and infected half her class, who went on the infect other students, siblings and parents.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/elementary-school-teacher-took-off-160807740.html
So if the teacher never took off her mask, do you believe it never would have been spread? Did it spread to all kids at once the instant she momentarily removed the mask? Regardless of them wearing masks, once the virus was in the air they were going to catch it? Or did one kid or a couple kids get it but then still pass it onto other kids, who were all wearing masks?
This is the main reason for all the distrust, misinformation, and just simple controversy over masks. I've seen this same story/headline grab shared all over, obviously with the intent to stir up outrage and controversy.
-The teacher is an idiot for not getting the vaccine, assuming there is no legitimate reason she couldn't.
-The mask is not a replacement for the vaccine. For some reason this has been fed to the public, that wearing a homemade piece of cloth will give you 100% immunity to the virus regardless of any other factors. Just wear a mask and everything is fine! Do masks help? In general, in certain situations wearing them is probably safer than not, but this whole implication that wearing a non N95 mask is some end all, be all protector is not the case.
These stories just create more speculation and questions that can lead to misinformation on all sides. If you're eligible to get the vaccine, you should get it, as your odds for severe symptoms is greatly reduced. Outside that, it seems like the virus is never going to completely stop spreading no matter how many masks are worn.
-
Too much hyperbole in my opinion because we can’t even agree on the simple items. This is a mesh of risk reduction. You can do everything ‘right’ and it’s still a risk.
Vaccines and masks are two really great risk reducers. As is improving ventilation.
The other one we just decided not to do is rapid testing (don’t get that at all). One we don’t talk about enough is quality of mask.
This article/anecdote proves what we already know. An unvaxxed, unmasked symptomatic person projecting into a group of people inside has a high potential to create spread.
-
So if the teacher never took off her mask, do you believe it never would have been spread? Did it spread to all kids at once the instant she momentarily removed the mask? Regardless of them wearing masks, once the virus was in the air they were going to catch it? Or did one kid or a couple kids get it but then still pass it onto other kids, who were all wearing masks?
Your answers lie within.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e2.htm
-The mask is not a replacement for the vaccine. For some reason this has been fed to the public, that wearing a homemade piece of cloth will give you 100% immunity to the virus regardless of any other factors. Just wear a mask and everything is fine!
Can you cite any public health authority who has said anything resembling this?
-
What speculation leading to misinformation? Unvaccinated person spread COVID to other unvaccinated people. And all it took was a moment of not following protocols. How in holy f@ck is this still a surprise or leading to misinformation or speculation?
Delta is going to spread through the unvaccinated. If unvaccinated, the best prevention is masks and social distancing
This is 1+1=2.
-
Too much hyperbole in my opinion because we can’t even agree on the simple items. This is a mesh of risk reduction. You can do everything ‘right’ and it’s still a risk.
Vaccines and masks are two really great risk reducers. As is improving ventilation.
The other one we just decided not to do is rapid testing (don’t get that at all). One we don’t talk about enough is quality of mask.
This article/anecdote proves what we already know. An unvaxxed, unmasked symptomatic person projecting into a group of people inside has a high potential to create spread.
To your point, the 'swiss cheese' diagram/explanation on page 4 of this "Guidance for keeping Schools safe for students and staff" is the simplest explanation for why multiple precautions are needed and that even vaccinations are only one part of a comprehensive plan. This is also what guides our schools approach and we were in person 100% of last year.
https://www.childrensmercy.org/siteassets/media/covid-19/guidance-for-school-re-opening-during-the-covid-19-pandemic.pdf (https://www.childrensmercy.org/siteassets/media/covid-19/guidance-for-school-re-opening-during-the-covid-19-pandemic.pdf)
-
Wow.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/us/florida-schools-mask-mandates.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210831&instance_id=39234&nl=the-morning®i_id=108420427&segment_id=67674&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The Florida Department of Education has withheld funds from two school districts that made masks mandatory in classrooms this fall, state officials announced on Monday, making good on a threat that local school boards that required students to wear masks would be punished financially.
The announcement is the latest twist in a political fight over masking in Florida, where Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican, issued a ban on masks in school in July, only to be swatted back by a judge last week.
-
Wow.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/us/florida-schools-mask-mandates.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210831&instance_id=39234&nl=the-morning®i_id=108420427&segment_id=67674&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The Florida Department of Education has withheld funds from two school districts that made masks mandatory in classrooms this fall, state officials announced on Monday, making good on a threat that local school boards that required students to wear masks would be punished financially.
The announcement is the latest twist in a political fight over masking in Florida, where Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican, issued a ban on masks in school in July, only to be swatted back by a judge last week.
A "law and order" governor is violating a court order to punish school board members who are refusing to follow his unlawful decree.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/Neoavatara/status/1433750216079990790
So much for that.
-
Our school district has now implemented that if there is a positive Covid case, those deemed "close contact" do not have to quarantine if they were masked, and vaccinated. We will see how this turns out.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/Neoavatara/status/1433750216079990790
So much for that.
The conclusion is that Delta is way more infectious, so kids getting sick far more often, but apparently not sicker.
Actually doesn't change any conclusions or guidance regarding schools. Schools are way more dangerous because of Delta.
Note, there are major caveats to their conclusions.
-
The conclusion is that Delta is way more infectious, so kids getting sick far more often, but apparently not sicker.
Actually doesn't change any conclusions or guidance regarding schools. Schools are way more dangerous because of Delta.
Note, there are major caveats to their conclusions.
Chicos never reads past the headline.
-
The conclusion is that Delta is way more infectious, so kids getting sick far more often, but apparently not sicker.
Actually doesn't change any conclusions or guidance regarding schools. Schools are way more dangerous because of Delta.
Note, there are major caveats to their conclusions.
Nowhere did I say kids aren’t getting sick. Kids are before of germs, always have been always will be. My criticism from day 1 is the incredible overreaction of mitigation measures put towards Covid and the complete unwillingness to factor in some of the collateral damage as a result of these crazy measures.
I feel a majority of people by the end of last school year finally started to acknowledge that what we did to kids in 2020 shouldn't and couldn’t be repeated this year. Then as luck would have it Delta hit and the same fear mongering tactics from 2020 went into overdrive leading to a lot of repeat craziness to the start of this year, under the justification that Delta is much more lethal to kids than alpha was. Well turns out that’s not the case.
If the goal is to put policies/mandates into place to make sure kids don’t get sick then why would we ever stop these mitigating measures?
Edit: by dangerous to you mean kids are going to get sick?
-
Collateral damage is unvaccinated taking up hospital beds.
Kids having to wear masks? Psh
-
Collateral damage is unvaccinated taking up hospital beds.
Kids having to wear masks? Psh
Ya, wearing masks covers all the bases for what they’ve had to go through in most districts.
Thankfully the district my kids go to has remained calm and put in place measured responses and lightened those as we learned more about Covid and the risk it poses to kids. Not even as much as a mask mandate in place this year. Upgraded HVAC over the summer and increased sanitation stations throughout the school, let’s roll!!
Haven’t missed a day of school aside from the initial freak out in March 2020. Each of them have gotten a cold or two during that time and kept strengthening their immune systems. Blessed be!!
-
Ya, wearing masks covers all the bases for what they’ve had to go through in most districts.
Thankfully the district my kids go to has remained calm and put in place measured responses and lightened those as we learned more about Covid and the risk it poses to kids. Not even as much as a mask mandate in place this year. Upgraded HVAC over the summer and increased sanitation stations throughout the school, let’s roll!!
Haven’t missed a day of school aside from the initial freak out in March 2020. Each of them have gotten a cold or two during that time and kept strengthening their immune systems. Blessed be!!
I actually agree with you.
Go back and check my posts, but I've said kids need to be in school going back to last spring.
I would argue masks are likely a good compromise vs cost of HVAC/sanitation that some districts may not be able to afford
I'd be interested to hear from parents yelling against masks in school if they'd be fine with a tax increase instead.
-
Remote schooling was a burden that will have repercussions for years on our children.
Masks are not a significant burden.
-
I actually agree with you.
Go back and check my posts, but I've said kids need to be in school going back to last spring.
I would argue masks are likely a good compromise vs cost of HVAC/sanitation that some districts may not be able to afford
I'd be interested to hear from parents yelling against masks in school if they'd be fine with a tax increase instead.
I imagine the cost of say 10 reusable cloth masks or 5 new disposable surgical masks every day would equal the cost of any sort of tax burden put on a community to upgrade hvac when broken down per home.
Position it and pitch it the right way and I imagine you’d get good buy in. Majority at least.
-
https://nbc-2.com/news/health/covid/2021/09/03/15-miami-dade-educators-die-from-covid-19-in-10-days/
15 Miami-Dade teachers have died from covid in the past 10 days (4th largest school district in the nation, and I don't know how many teachers they have). There is a mask mandate at Miami Dade schools and out of 350k students only ~60 have medical exemptions.
$10 that there will be "lockdowns" this winter because parents are insisting on their free childcare via in-person schooling. Not that the US has really had lockdowns anywhere yet.
-
Anti-mask parents continue to be very reasonable.
Police arrested a 40-year-old Arizona dad after he stormed into an elementary school principal’s office with a friend wielding plastic handcuffs, insisting the administration broke the law by asking his child and six others to wear a mask and quarantine after being in close contact with someone who tested positive for COVID-19.
“I can tell you the end result of that incident was we did make one arrest for trespassing,” Sgt. Richard Gradillas of the Tucson, Arizona, Police Department told The Daily Beast, identifying the dad arrested as Rishi Rambaran.
Two men accompanied Rambaran on Thursday as he ambushed Principal Diane Vargo while she sat with another educator at the Mesquite Elementary School in Tucson. One of the men, Kelly Walker, livestreamed the incident on Instagram, explaining that Rambaran, who is also known as “Reese,” had called him and asked him to be there in case he needed backup. The third man, who has not been identified, stood in the doorway of Vargo’s office with a fistful of “law enforcement-grade” zip ties at the ready—as the trio was prepared to make a citizen’s arrest, Walker said.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/arizona-dad-rishi-rambaran-arrested-after-angry-trio-threatens-to-zip-tie-principal-over-covid-rules?ref=home?ref=home
-
https://nbc-2.com/news/health/covid/2021/09/03/15-miami-dade-educators-die-from-covid-19-in-10-days/
15 Miami-Dade teachers have died from covid in the past 10 days (4th largest school district in the nation, and I don't know how many teachers they have). There is a mask mandate at Miami Dade schools and out of 350k students only ~60 have medical exemptions.
$10 that there will be "lockdowns" this winter because parents are insisting on their free childcare via in-person schooling. Not that the US has really had lockdowns anywhere yet.
Is free child care really the value you see with in classroom teaching? You think teachers are nothing more then babysitters?
-
Is free child care really the value you see with in classroom teaching? You think teachers are nothing more then babysitters?
I think you post the dumbest stuff on this forum. And rocket posts here.
-
I think you post the dumbest stuff on this forum. And rocket posts here.
You’re the one who said parents view teachers as free baby sitters which of all the stupid sh*t said on scoop is by far and away the stupidest.
-
Is free child care really the value you see with in classroom teaching? You think teachers are nothing more then babysitters?
I think there are a crap-ton of parents/families that absolutely believe it's a convenient/free daycare
-
From the Charlotte Observer:
Nearly all of North Carolina’s school districts are now requiring face masks to be worn because of soaring COVID numbers that are causing some schools and entire districts to switch temporarily to online classes.
At the beginning of August, the majority of the state’s 115 school districts had planned to open the school year not requiring face masks. But a month later, only a handful of school districts are not requiring masks. Dozens of districts reversed their plans to go mask optional.
“As of this morning, we are up to 106 of the 115 school districts have moved to masking requirements, and that covers about 94% of our children in our public school system,” Dr. Betsey Tilson, the state health director, said at Thursday’s State Board of Education meeting.
-
I think there are a crap-ton of parents/families that absolutely believe it's a convenient/free daycare
I think that’s you projecting your view of teachers. If I remember correctly you don’t have kids right?
I don’t know a single parent who shares that opinion.
-
I think that’s you projecting your view of teachers. If I remember correctly you don’t have kids right?
I don’t know a single parent who shares that opinion.
I don't have kids.
I do have multiple family members who are teachers.
-
I don't have kids.
I do have multiple family members who are teachers.
Which is probably one of the many reasons why I don’t imagine you view teachers as babysitters. Like 99% of most everyone.
-
Which is probably one of the many reasons why I don’t imagine you view teachers as babysitters. Like 99% of most everyone.
Your posts are all over the board tonight coming from all sides of the same topic.
Take the rest of the night off
-
Your posts are all over the board tonight coming from all sides of the same topic.
Take the rest of the night off
How so? My kid won’t fall asleep, as soon as he does I promise you won’t hear from me again till bed time tomorrow!
-
How so? My kid won’t fall asleep, as soon as he does I promise you won’t hear from me again till bed time tomorrow!
I think a lot of folks view teachers as basically free daycare, because that's what my family members have told me. Because that's, more or less, what families have told them.
-
I think you post the dumbest stuff on this forum. And rocket posts here.
And post of the week goes to ...
-
^^^This.
-
15 Miami-Dade Public School Staff Members Die Of COVID In Just 10 Days
“Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, who has dismissed the importance of COVID-19 vaccinations and signed an executive order banning mask mandates at schools, issued no comment on the astounding death rate in the county schools system.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/15-miami-dade-public-school-021517732.html
-
15 Miami-Dade Public School Staff Members Die Of COVID In Just 10 Days
“Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, who has dismissed the importance of COVID-19 vaccinations and signed an executive order banning mask mandates at schools, issued no comment on the astounding death rate in the county schools system.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/15-miami-dade-public-school-021517732.html
"Floridians needlessly dropping dead at an alarming rate on my watch in part due to my policies? No comment! DeSantis 2024!"
-
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/nearly-252-000-children-us-012011555.html
This will be fun as it works its way north.
-
I think a lot of folks view teachers as basically free daycare, because that's what my family members have told me. Because that's, more or less, what families have told them.
Same, and I have a family full of educators.
-
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Los Angeles, the nation's second-largest school district, will require coronavirus vaccine for students 12 and up.
-
A K-9 charter school close to where I live, and whose basketball team I used to coach against, just told their teachers and staff to either get vaccinated or hit the bricks. Believed to be the first in the Charlotte area to have such a mandate. Good for them!
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article254240338.html?
Board members of Socrates Academy, a school that serves students in grades K-9, said they took careful consideration of the implications the decision could have on faculty, staff and students. Even without the mandate, school officials report that most of the teachers at Socrates are already vaccinated.
The board also met Monday to discuss the mandate after listening to pleas from teachers for the board to reconsider. Board members again voted unanimously for the mandate.
“From the beginning, we have taken a position that we need to follow science,” board President Larry Peroulas said in a statement provided to the Observer. “There is clear evidence showing that COVID-19 vaccines are safe and, combined with other safety measures such as masking, are the most powerful measures we have against the pandemic.
“We agree with national teacher groups that such measures are appropriate, responsible, and necessary to ensure the safety of our school community and to protect our students.”
In a letter to parents, the academy said it already requires masking of faculty, staff, and students and has implemented extensive mitigation strategies to prevent the spread of the virus, including scheduling vaccine clinics for staff and students and offering weekly COVID-19 testing for employees and students who have opted in.
Janice Soucey, the development and communications facilitator for the school, told the Observer that effective Nov. 25, complete COVID-19 vaccination is a condition of employment at Socrates, absent medical or religious exemptions that can be submitted at least 30 days prior to Nov. 25.
“Personnel who do not intend to comply with the complete COVID-19 vaccination must give notice by Oct. 22,” Soucey said.
-
I think schools are in for a world of hurt next year.
Pre-Covid, the "teacher shortage" was always trending upwards. 2020-21 scrambled the schools and the data. Now most schools are operating in the new-normal phase, but teacher shortages are rampant everywhere.
The substitute teacher pool was always shallow, now is far worse. At my wife's school, it's a daily juggling act of being down 1-2-3+ sub positions, which means the principal, assistant principal .. librarian .. gym teacher .. art teacher .. they're all drafted into covering classes. Another tool is to take a class without a teacher, split the kids up and pack them into other rooms for the day.
It's nuts.
Only 2.5 months into the year, the stresses are high. During virtual learning, kids got a fraction of regular learning, and their behavior and social skills regressed. You always had a couple kids who couldn't sit still, now you have 3x that.
I can't go two days without my wife saying she wonders if CostCo is hiring. I asked her if that was common at her school, she thought that it was likely every single teacher in the building had thoughts of wanting a new job. And this is a solid suburban district.
I happened along this subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/ .. it's shocking. (Understood it's a self-selected reddit group, often of people who want to vent.) It's a high volume sub .. the common theme is desperation, and every ~third post is about quitting.
I very much wonder if the "great resignation" will come crashing down on schools when the academic year ends. I'm not saying they're all quitting, but even 10% is likely a catastrophe.
If Arby's doesn't have the staff, they can just close for the shift. And they can increase wages ($15/hr at my local spot if anyone is wondering). Schools can roughly do neither.
(OK, they could increase wages, but that has been resisted by political factions forever, so good luck on that.)
-
In Las Vegas, they are bringing people in from the Philippines and givibg them crash courses to get their teaching certificates.
-
What speculation leading to misinformation? Unvaccinated person spread COVID to other unvaccinated people. And all it took was a moment of not following protocols. How in holy f@ck is this still a surprise or leading to misinformation or speculation?
Delta is going to spread through the unvaccinated. If unvaccinated, the best prevention is masks and social distancing
This is 1+1=2.
I know this is old news, but it’s more about the quality of the mask, not failing to follow guidelines for a short time. Study after study has suggested repeated exposure for a lengthy period of time is what makes the difference, so money is on her and the children’s masks being ineffective.
-
I think schools are in for a world of hurt next year.
Pre-Covid, the "teacher shortage" was always trending upwards. 2020-21 scrambled the schools and the data. Now most schools are operating in the new-normal phase, but teacher shortages are rampant everywhere.
The substitute teacher pool was always shallow, now is far worse. At my wife's school, it's a daily juggling act of being down 1-2-3+ sub positions, which means the principal, assistant principal .. librarian .. gym teacher .. art teacher .. they're all drafted into covering classes. Another tool is to take a class without a teacher, split the kids up and pack them into other rooms for the day.
It's nuts.
Only 2.5 months into the year, the stresses are high. During virtual learning, kids got a fraction of regular learning, and their behavior and social skills regressed. You always had a couple kids who couldn't sit still, now you have 3x that.
I can't go two days without my wife saying she wonders if CostCo is hiring. I asked her if that was common at her school, she thought that it was likely every single teacher in the building had thoughts of wanting a new job. And this is a solid suburban district.
I happened along this subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/ .. it's shocking. (Understood it's a self-selected reddit group, often of people who want to vent.) It's a high volume sub .. the common theme is desperation, and every ~third post is about quitting.
I very much wonder if the "great resignation" will come crashing down on schools when the academic year ends. I'm not saying they're all quitting, but even 10% is likely a catastrophe.
If Arby's doesn't have the staff, they can just close for the shift. And they can increase wages ($15/hr at my local spot if anyone is wondering). Schools can roughly do neither.
(OK, they could increase wages, but that has been resisted by political factions forever, so good luck on that.)
Seeing the first hints of it around here already. School districts are closing down for a week because of teacher infections and no subs available.
You are not wrong about the long term prognosis. Decades of tearing down teachers has led to fewer people wanting to teach. Weird, right?
-
Coincidentally seeing this now .. brutal stats.
https://www.axios.com/teacher-burnout-fatigue-pandemic-covid-schools-75df52ab-720c-470f-ac9b-426514e0452a.html
By the numbers: Nearly one in four teachers said they were likely to leave their jobs at the end of last school year, compared with one in six teachers who said the same, on average, before the pandemic, according to a report by the RAND Corporation from March 2021.
Nearly half of Black teachers said they were likely to leave their jobs at the end of the school year, RAND found.
-
I know this is completely anecdotal, but I know multiple teachers who have (or will be) retiring or leaving their jobs much earlier than they had planned. Good friend of ours, a math teacher, retired at 57 and joined a local CPA firm. Full time from January 1 through April 15. The rest of the year about 10 hours a week. All fully remote if she wants. Between retirement income and her wages, she has increased her income by about a third. The pandemic was the cherry on top of the standardized testing and Act 10 sundae.
And admission into teacher education programs has been decreasing for years. Some of that wasn't a problem because there was a surplus of teachers for many years prior, but now that the pandemic is accelerating retirements and career-switching, it's really becoming an issue.
-
My wife has been saying recently she wishes she could retire from teaching. She loves her job, but COVID pushed everything over the edge. It's mostly the students, as the kids are completely disrespectful now. The social skills aren't as good and too focused on how they appear on social media. A large number don't want to work and then the same students and parents harass her with BS excuses to increase their grade for no reason. Of course these things happened previously, but it was more the exception than the rule.
-
My wife has been saying recently she wishes she could retire from teaching. She loves her job, but COVID pushed everything over the edge. It's mostly the students, as the kids are completely disrespectful now. The social skills aren't as good and too focused on how they appear on social media. A large number don't want to work and then the same students and parents harass her with BS excuses to increase their grade for no reason. Of course these things happened previously, but it was more the exception than the rule.
Was this an issue for a few years now? And with COVID, the juice was no longer worth the squeeze? Or the kids became worse during/post COVID issues
-
Hard to imagine why anyone wouldn't want to go into teaching, with the kind of backing they get from parents like this.
Following the state's establishment of a website to report violations of a new anti-divisive-subject law, the New Hampshire chapter of Moms for Liberty tweeted that it would pay $500 to the first person to successfully catch a teacher breaking the new law.
https://www.businessinsider.com/anti-crt-moms-for-liberty-teachers-breaking-new-discrimination-law-2021-11?r=US&IR=T
Yup. Parents paying students to snitch on teachers. 'Merica.
That said, my wife is a teacher and is loving her class this year. Luck of the draw. She's had terrible classes and great classes.
But everything that has been said here about lousy parents who treat school as glorified day care and teachers as nannies, these are things she's encountered regularly in a long career in primary education. It's bad enough that there are so many entitled parents out there who view teachers as their personal babysitter, but worse when many of those same parents are the ones who complain loudest about your methods, salary, job security, etc.
-
Here's an op-ed in today's Charlotte Observer written by a psychologist:
Who else remembers last school year when adults talked about student mental health with a fervor previously unseen? Those were good times.
In a pre-vaccinated world, we had 4,000 Americans dying per day and folks downplaying COVID-19’s seriousness. They said that remote learning showed we were overfocusing on COVID and not paying enough attention to the mental health of young people. Kids in buildings was presented as the panacea.
Fast forward to kids being back in buildings. How often is student mental health coming up at school board meetings now? Does it even get a sneeze between “unmask our kids” and pleas to lie about US history?
Kids are back in buildings and we have significantly more suicide assessments than we’ve had historically. In Mecklenburg County alone, we’ve had several completed suicides. We have young people acting out and fighting. We are locating guns on campuses. We are having incidents dealing with sexual assault and other violence. Our kids are crying out at every turn and what are “concerned” adults passionately advocating for?
Don’t wear quarantine-reducing masks even after 700,000 American deaths; and the boogeyman of CRT that they can’t even define.
As someone who treats mental health, nothing irritates me more than adults who weaponize the buzzword of mental health for their convenience while avoiding tangible action to address it. Mental health is brought up when adults want to avoid conversations about gun accessibility. It was brought up last year because of kids, but more because we adults had a hard time with kids at home. With my wife and I both having jobs outside the home, work’s certainly easier without our two kids at home.
However, COVID didn’t start the fire of youth/adolescent mental health struggles. Our suicide rate for young people rose 60% from 2007-2018 before we even knew the word coronavirus. And yet, the only thing adults sought to do to address youth mental health amid the pandemic was to return to an educational status quo where we treat our kids as testing bots.
We have a serious issue with our young people’s socioemotional health. And yet, there are only two responses that this community offers with any ferocity — ”these parents and kids these days” and “CMS needs to get it together.”
Regarding CMS sexual assault, there do need to be clear Title IX policies and procedures that are communicated internally and externally. Making those easily accessible to the public would help accountability and transparency.
Separately, there needs to be education starting in elementary and evolving age appropriately about healthy relationships, boundaries, communication, emotion regulation, and conflict resolution. The idea that these are things to be learned at home is a cop-out, as across schools and demographics in our community, our kids need support here. Education must involve human development beyond End of Grade tests. Families must support this paradigm shift.
Further, as a community, we need to self-reflect. Our youth were struggling before experiencing a once-in-a-century traumatic pandemic. We abandoned them once they got in the building. We need to push for: expanded Medicaid, which provides more access to care; our state legislature to fund our schools as required by state law; and a recommitment to holistic youth development beyond testing alone. Or we can finally admit we don’t really care.
-
Was this an issue for a few years now? And with COVID, the juice was no longer worth the squeeze? Or the kids became worse during/post COVID issues
She teaches high school. Kids have just gotten way way worse the last 2 years. Her Senior students tell her that the Freshman and Sophomores haven't been through middle school bullying to remember their place since they were on shortened days or hybrid or full at home. Kids are socially awkward for the same reason and so focused on how they appear on social media noticeably more so than even 5 years ago.
This disrespect part is the worst. One story, from the second week of school, a Freshman refused to put his cellphone away. He ignored her three times to stop disrupting the class and when called up to her desk to put his phone on her desk for the rest of class he went on about "since I ignored the first two times they don't count (along those lines). And you can't take my property, I have rights." After the Vice Principal spoke with the student and called his parents she got the non-apology apology and him and his cliche in class has only been minimally better.
-
She teaches high school. Kids have just gotten way way worse the last 2 years. Her Senior students tell her that the Freshman and Sophomores haven't been through middle school bullying to remember their place since they were on shortened days or hybrid or full at home. Kids are socially awkward for the same reason and so focused on how they appear on social media noticeably more so than even 5 years ago.
This disrespect part is the worst. One story, from the second week of school, a Freshman refused to put his cellphone away. He ignored her three times to stop disrupting the class and when called up to her desk to put his phone on her desk for the rest of class he went on about "since I ignored the first two times they don't count (along those lines). And you can't take my property, I have rights." After the Vice Principal spoke with the student and called his parents she got the non-apology apology and him and his cliche in class has only been minimally better.
Appreciate it. Certainly didn't doubt it. Was just curious the context. Truly frustrating and unfortunate.
-
Appreciate it. Certainly didn't doubt it. Was just curious the context. Truly frustrating and unfortunate.
Frustrating is the perfect word.
My cousin teaches HS in a different town and told my wife and I similar. It's going to take time to bring the students back to "normalcy" both socially and academically.
-
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/17/health/test-to-stay-schools-cdc-studies/index.html
-
She teaches high school. Kids have just gotten way way worse the last 2 years. Her Senior students tell her that the Freshman and Sophomores haven't been through middle school bullying to remember their place since they were on shortened days or hybrid or full at home. Kids are socially awkward for the same reason and so focused on how they appear on social media noticeably more so than even 5 years ago.
This disrespect part is the worst. One story, from the second week of school, a Freshman refused to put his cellphone away. He ignored her three times to stop disrupting the class and when called up to her desk to put his phone on her desk for the rest of class he went on about "since I ignored the first two times they don't count (along those lines). And you can't take my property, I have rights." After the Vice Principal spoke with the student and called his parents she got the non-apology apology and him and his cliche in class has only been minimally better.
Fan, I'd like you comments on the whole LGBTQ issue. My daughter is a Middle school teacher and this is one of her biggest frustrations. She is perfectly fine respecting students as they are or want to be. But she feels the schools have put student's feelings as the top priority with teaching becoming secondary.
Just wondering how your wife is dealing with this in school.
-
Fan, I'd like you comments on the whole LGBTQ issue. My daughter is a Middle school teacher and this is one of her biggest frustrations. She is perfectly fine respecting students as they are or want to be. But she feels the schools have put student's feelings as the top priority with teaching becoming secondary.
Just wondering how your wife is dealing with this in school.
Jock, maybe take that to PM. Not related to covid...
-
I'm convinced that when schools start up in September 2022, chunks of them won't be able to open their doors due to teacher resignations. Those that open will be massively understaffed, making the problem even worse.
-
I'm convinced that when schools start up in September 2022, chunks of them won't be able to open their doors due to teacher resignations. Those that open will be massively understaffed, making the problem even worse.
And unlike pre-Act 10 days, there isn't a glut of teachers to fill in the gaps.
Anecdotally, every teacher I know who CAN retire, has done so (or soon will be doing so.) Also know a few teachers who have quit the profession within a couple of years of graduating.
-
And unlike pre-Act 10 days, there isn't a glut of teachers to fill in the gaps.
Anecdotally, every teacher I know who CAN retire, has done so (or soon will be doing so.) Also know a few teachers who have quit the profession within a couple of years of graduating.
We, as a nation, undervalue teachers
-
And actively undercut them. And scapegoat them.
-
And actively undercut them. And scapegoat them.
It’s because of their union. Unions bad!
-
Fan, I'd like you comments on the whole LGBTQ issue. My daughter is a Middle school teacher and this is one of her biggest frustrations. She is perfectly fine respecting students as they are or want to be. But she feels the schools have put student's feelings as the top priority with teaching becoming secondary.
Just wondering how your wife is dealing with this in school.
I will ask her opinion.
Some more weird student stories. They always seem to occur on mask breaks.
* Students outside for a mask break were shot putting boulders onto the roof above my wife's classroom. Students in her classroom at the time were freaking out from the unknown roof noise. Kids wouldn't cop to it even when she caught them red-handed. They were more interested in "well how did it sound?" There apparently were workers on the roof the past two days prior and she wondered how they would have felt if boulder smashed them working on the roof. They were sent to the office and ended up in multi-week detention.
* This past autumn, students on a mask break ended up on top of one of those 10 foot tall large green metallic electrical-related boxes. She had no idea how they got up and first thought was "are they trying to get electrocuted?" Off to the office and detention received.
* Kids get the bathroom pass and then disappear for a lengthy time. One student who she caught, replied that "Yeah I went, but I had to find my friend and tell her something."
-
It’s because of their union. Unions bad!
Maybe in some places, but there are no teachers unions here in the Carolinas ... and they're still treated poorly.
-
I know this is completely anecdotal, but I know multiple teachers who have (or will be) retiring or leaving their jobs much earlier than they had planned. Good friend of ours, a math teacher, retired at 57 and joined a local CPA firm. Full time from January 1 through April 15. The rest of the year about 10 hours a week. All fully remote if she wants. Between retirement income and her wages, she has increased her income by about a third. The pandemic was the cherry on top of the standardized testing and Act 10 sundae.
And admission into teacher education programs has been decreasing for years. Some of that wasn't a problem because there was a surplus of teachers for many years prior, but now that the pandemic is accelerating retirements and career-switching, it's really becoming an issue.
What happened to Mr "income doesn't matter, people don't go into teaching for the money". ::)
My fiancé wants to quit teaching after this year. 5yrs at MPS, 1yr in blue collar suburban Chicago and she's done, no interest in trying fancy suburb next year. Also two aunts retiring about 5yrs before they would've been expected to.
-
My daughter in law teaches 5th grade in the Chicago burbs. Like everybody, she is tired of dealing with Covid, but she likes her job and says that this year's class is one of her favorites.
I'm not using this to refute anything that anybody here is saying. Just offering another POV.
-
Did she get any combat pay, hey?
-
What happened to Mr "income doesn't matter, people don't go into teaching for the money". ::)
What? She didn't go into teaching for the money. She's not leaving teaching to make more money. She's leaving teaching because she doesn't want to deal with Covid issues in her classroom, but since she is only 57, still need to earn a living.
-
Eye'm a product of MPS. Butt, it wuz different in da horse and buggy daze, aina?
-
Our district has announced an optional two week virtual school session to begin January.
Even in our highly vaccinated district (adults 90% .. kids 80%) .. cases are insanely high, IIRC at a new record.
-
The teacher’s unions demanded virtual learning. So even the teachers who would have preferred classrooms being open are punished by all of the consequences of long term virtual (non) learning. I feel sorry for those teachers. I also feel sorry for all the hospital workers, firemen, policemen, grocery workers, meat packers, factory workers, etc., who have showed up every day throughout the pandemic.
-
...and dentists too. Thank you for your service, aina?
-
...and dentists too. Thank you for your service, aina?
The thin pasty line
-
...and dentists too. Thank you for your service, aina?
Absolutely, Doc.
-
...and dentists too. Thank you for your service, aina?
The more I think about it, Dentistry has to be the highest risk of anyone. Dead serious too. All of our inpatient's are tested upon admission (ER different story). Dentists are dealing with open mouths on people that could be positive all of the time. Salute.
-
Dentists Dental hygienists are dealing with open mouths on people that could be positive all of the time. Salute.
FIFY
-
Some COVID K-12info in this morning's New York Times news summary of the day.
New York Times
The Morning
by David Leonhardt
Good morning. The pandemic has created a crisis for American children.
Idle school buses in Detroit yesterday. Emily Elconin for The New York Times
No way to grow up
American children are starting 2022 in crisis.
I have long been aware that the pandemic was upending children’s lives. But until I spent time pulling together data and reading reports, I did not understand just how alarming the situation had become.
Today’s newsletter offers an overview of that crisis.
The toll
Children fell far behind in school during the first year of the pandemic and have not caught up. Among third through eighth graders, math and reading levels were all lower than normal this fall, according to NWEA, a research group. The shortfalls were largest for Black and Hispanic students, as well as students in schools with high poverty rates.
“We haven’t seen this kind of academic achievement crisis in living memory,” Michael Petrilli of the Thomas B. Fordham Institute told Politico.
Many children and teenagers are experiencing mental health problems, aggravated by the isolation and disruption of the pandemic. Three medical groups, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, recently declared a national state of emergency in children’s mental health. They cited “dramatic increases in emergency department visits for all mental health emergencies.”
Suicide attempts have risen, slightly among adolescent boys and sharply among adolescent girls. The number of E.R. visits for suspected suicide attempts by 12- to 17-year-old girls rose by 51 percent from early 2019 to early 2021, according to the C.D.C.
Gun violence against children has increased, as part of a broader nationwide rise in crime. In Chicago, for example, 101 residents under age 20 were murdered last year, up from 76 in 2019. School shootings have also risen: The Washington Post counted 42 last year in the U.S., the most on record and up from 27 in 2019.
Many schools have still not returned to normal, worsening learning loss and social isolation. Once-normal aspects of school life — lunchtime, extracurricular activities, assemblies, school trips, parent-teacher conferences, reliable bus schedules — have been transformed if not eliminated.
When The Morning asked parents and teachers about the situation in their local schools, we heard an outpouring of anguish:
“This is no way for children to grow up,” Jackie Irwin, a reader in Oklahoma, told us. “It is maddening.”
“For so many kids, school represents a safe, comfortable, reliable place, but not for nearly two years now,” Lisa Durstin of Strafford, Vt., said.
“A lot of the joy and camaraderie that signifies a happy, productive school culture has disappeared,” said Maria Menconi, a schools consultant and former superintendent based in Arizona.
Behavior problems have increased. “Schools across the country say they’re seeing an uptick in disruptive behaviors,” Kalyn Belsha of Chalkbeat reported. “Some are obvious and visible, like students trashing bathrooms, fighting over social media posts or running out of classrooms. Others are quieter calls for help, like students putting their head down and refusing to talk.”
Kelli Tuttle, a teacher in Madison, Wis., told us, “There is a lot of swearing, vandalism and some fights.” A teacher in Northern California said she had witnessed the “meanest, most inappropriate comments to teachers” in her 15 years of working in schools.
The Omicron variant is now scrambling children’s lives again. Most schools have stayed open this week, but many have canceled sports, plays and other activities. Some districts have closed schools, for a day or more, despite evidence that most children struggle to learn remotely, as my colleague Dana Goldstein reports. Closings are taking place in Atlanta, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Newark and several New York City suburbs, among other places.
“It’s chaos,” Keri Rodrigues, president of the National Parents Union, told Dana. “The No. 1 thing that parents and families are crying out for is stability.”
Hard choices
For the past two years, large parts of American society have decided harming children was an unavoidable side effect of Covid-19. And that was probably true in the spring of 2020, when nearly all of society shut down to slow the spread of a deadly and mysterious virus.
But the approach has been less defensible for the past year and a half, as we have learned more about both Covid and the extent of children’s suffering from pandemic restrictions.
Data now suggest that many changes to school routines are of questionable value in controlling the virus’s spread. Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. Other interventions, like forcing students to sit apart from their friends at lunch, may also have little benefit.
One reason: Severe versions of Covid, including long Covid, are extremely rare in children. For them, the virus resembles a typical flu. Children face more risk from car rides than Covid.
The widespread availability of vaccines since last spring also raises an ethical question: Should children suffer to protect unvaccinated adults — who are voluntarily accepting Covid risk for themselves and increasing everybody else’s risk, too? Right now, the U.S. is effectively saying yes.
To be clear, there are some hard decisions and unavoidable trade-offs. Covid can lead to hospitalization or worse for a small percentage of vaccinated adults, especially those who are older or immunocompromised, and allowing children to resume normal life could create additional risk. The Omicron surge may well heighten that risk, leaving schools with no attractive options.
For the past two years, however, many communities in the U.S. have not really grappled with the trade-off. They have tried to minimize the spread of Covid — a worthy goal absent other factors — rather than minimizing the damage that Covid does to society. They have accepted more harm to children in exchange for less harm to adults, often without acknowledging the dilemma or assessing which decisions lead to less overall harm.
Given the choices that the country has made, it should not be surprising that children are suffering so much.
Related: Polls show that Americans are worn out and frustrated by the pandemic, Blake Hounshell and Leah Askarinam explain in the first edition of the new On Politics newsletter.
-
The crisis is teachers don't want to teach, hey?
-
The crisis is teachers don't want to teach, hey?
Most teachers want to teach. Most teachers are getting stuck on the front lines of trying to enforce Covid policies, and its wearing on them. As I mentioned before, every teacher I know who financially CAN retire, is planning to. I know handfuls of young teachers who have already dropped out of the profession, or are planning to shortly. So it's not only the children that are going to deal with the after affects, the entire educational system will too.
-
Most teachers want to teach. Most teachers are getting stuck on the front lines of trying to enforce Covid policies, and its wearing on them. As I mentioned before, every teacher I know who financially CAN retire, is planning to. I know handfuls of young teachers who have already dropped out of the profession, or are planning to shortly. So it's not only the children that are going to deal with the after affects, the entire educational system will too.
Is it covid or is it the weak, woke administrators that have eliminated discipline and accountability from the schools? Just look at the Madison school district for how "theory" and the fear of being raaaaaccccist have destroyed a once top education system.
-
The crisis is teachers don't want to teach, hey?
Bull Chit
-
Teaching as a career has been declining for decades. Punching bags of the right. Having to deal with Karen parents. Poor pay for a lot of education. Having to buy their own classroom supplies out of their inadequate pay. Being forced to teach to a test. We are currently reaping the decades of disrespect that has been sown.
For all of you scoopers out there, particularly those looking for a career change or something to do in retirement, now would be a great time to step up.
-
The crisis is teachers don't want to teach, hey?
The problem is parents don't want to parent. So the only place kids have any sense of responsibility, direction, and guidance is at school through the teachers.
And for poorer groups, you have the problem of parents not being able to parent, because they are forced to work multiple minimum wage jobs to keep the lights on, and even then they are forced to sometimes choose between power, food, and/or shelter, leaving those kids with no safe comfortable place besides school.
Then, you place the entire burden of helping these kids, guiding these kids, and supporting these kids, on overworked teachers, who are barely compensated for their efforts, and blamed by everyone when a kid struggles with life.
-
Teaching as a career has been declining for decades. Punching bags of the right. Having to deal with Karen parents. Poor pay for a lot of education. Having to buy their own classroom supplies out of their inadequate pay. Being forced to teach to a test. We are currently reaping the decades of disrespect that has been sown.
For all of you scoopers out there, particularly those looking for a career change or something to do in retirement, now would be a great time to step up.
Yep, we have a national crisis, and it's mostly because teachers do not get the support from parents and politicians.
-
Is it covid or is it the weak, woke administrators that have eliminated discipline and accountability from the schools? Just look at the Madison school district for how "theory" and the fear of being raaaaaccccist have destroyed a once top education system.
Wow. You should use more talking points. This one doesn't have enough. I find it interesting, as a product of the Madison school district and who has family members enrolled in and graduated from the district, that it is "destroyed" though. I guess I will need to make them aware of that.
Anyway, I think Covid has accelerated many of the problems that tower outlines.
-
Some COVID K-12info in this morning's New York Times news summary of the day.
New York Times
The Morning
by David Leonhardt
Good morning. The pandemic has created a crisis for American children.
Idle school buses in Detroit yesterday. Emily Elconin for The New York Times
No way to grow up
American children are starting 2022 in crisis.
I have long been aware that the pandemic was upending children’s lives. But until I spent time pulling together data and reading reports, I did not understand just how alarming the situation had become.
Today’s newsletter offers an overview of that crisis.
The toll
Children fell far behind in school during the first year of the pandemic and have not caught up. Among third through eighth graders, math and reading levels were all lower than normal this fall, according to NWEA, a research group. The shortfalls were largest for Black and Hispanic students, as well as students in schools with high poverty rates.
“We haven’t seen this kind of academic achievement crisis in living memory,” Michael Petrilli of the Thomas B. Fordham Institute told Politico.
Many children and teenagers are experiencing mental health problems, aggravated by the isolation and disruption of the pandemic. Three medical groups, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, recently declared a national state of emergency in children’s mental health. They cited “dramatic increases in emergency department visits for all mental health emergencies.”
Suicide attempts have risen, slightly among adolescent boys and sharply among adolescent girls. The number of E.R. visits for suspected suicide attempts by 12- to 17-year-old girls rose by 51 percent from early 2019 to early 2021, according to the C.D.C.
Gun violence against children has increased, as part of a broader nationwide rise in crime. In Chicago, for example, 101 residents under age 20 were murdered last year, up from 76 in 2019. School shootings have also risen: The Washington Post counted 42 last year in the U.S., the most on record and up from 27 in 2019.
Many schools have still not returned to normal, worsening learning loss and social isolation. Once-normal aspects of school life — lunchtime, extracurricular activities, assemblies, school trips, parent-teacher conferences, reliable bus schedules — have been transformed if not eliminated.
When The Morning asked parents and teachers about the situation in their local schools, we heard an outpouring of anguish:
“This is no way for children to grow up,” Jackie Irwin, a reader in Oklahoma, told us. “It is maddening.”
“For so many kids, school represents a safe, comfortable, reliable place, but not for nearly two years now,” Lisa Durstin of Strafford, Vt., said.
“A lot of the joy and camaraderie that signifies a happy, productive school culture has disappeared,” said Maria Menconi, a schools consultant and former superintendent based in Arizona.
Behavior problems have increased. “Schools across the country say they’re seeing an uptick in disruptive behaviors,” Kalyn Belsha of Chalkbeat reported. “Some are obvious and visible, like students trashing bathrooms, fighting over social media posts or running out of classrooms. Others are quieter calls for help, like students putting their head down and refusing to talk.”
Kelli Tuttle, a teacher in Madison, Wis., told us, “There is a lot of swearing, vandalism and some fights.” A teacher in Northern California said she had witnessed the “meanest, most inappropriate comments to teachers” in her 15 years of working in schools.
The Omicron variant is now scrambling children’s lives again. Most schools have stayed open this week, but many have canceled sports, plays and other activities. Some districts have closed schools, for a day or more, despite evidence that most children struggle to learn remotely, as my colleague Dana Goldstein reports. Closings are taking place in Atlanta, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Newark and several New York City suburbs, among other places.
“It’s chaos,” Keri Rodrigues, president of the National Parents Union, told Dana. “The No. 1 thing that parents and families are crying out for is stability.”
Hard choices
For the past two years, large parts of American society have decided harming children was an unavoidable side effect of Covid-19. And that was probably true in the spring of 2020, when nearly all of society shut down to slow the spread of a deadly and mysterious virus.
But the approach has been less defensible for the past year and a half, as we have learned more about both Covid and the extent of children’s suffering from pandemic restrictions.
Data now suggest that many changes to school routines are of questionable value in controlling the virus’s spread. Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. Other interventions, like forcing students to sit apart from their friends at lunch, may also have little benefit.
One reason: Severe versions of Covid, including long Covid, are extremely rare in children. For them, the virus resembles a typical flu. Children face more risk from car rides than Covid.
The widespread availability of vaccines since last spring also raises an ethical question: Should children suffer to protect unvaccinated adults — who are voluntarily accepting Covid risk for themselves and increasing everybody else’s risk, too? Right now, the U.S. is effectively saying yes.
To be clear, there are some hard decisions and unavoidable trade-offs. Covid can lead to hospitalization or worse for a small percentage of vaccinated adults, especially those who are older or immunocompromised, and allowing children to resume normal life could create additional risk. The Omicron surge may well heighten that risk, leaving schools with no attractive options.
For the past two years, however, many communities in the U.S. have not really grappled with the trade-off. They have tried to minimize the spread of Covid — a worthy goal absent other factors — rather than minimizing the damage that Covid does to society. They have accepted more harm to children in exchange for less harm to adults, often without acknowledging the dilemma or assessing which decisions lead to less overall harm.
Given the choices that the country has made, it should not be surprising that children are suffering so much.
Related: Polls show that Americans are worn out and frustrated by the pandemic, Blake Hounshell and Leah Askarinam explain in the first edition of the new On Politics newsletter.
Another thing I remember arguing in the moment with quite a few on here. Was told I was wrong and misguided per usual and now the effects of those terrible decisions are coming to surface as predicted by many at the time.
So thankful my kids district didn’t go virtual aside from the initial couple week pause. Life has been largely normal for the kids in my community. My wife and I will forever be thankful to the school board and leaders and across the district who in the face of a lot of pushback made the right decisions while still creating a very safe environment for the kids to learn and options for families to have their kids take classes from home of that was their preference .
-
Another thing I remember arguing in the moment with quite a few on here. Was told I was wrong and misguided per usual and now the effects of those terrible decisions are coming to surface as predicted by many at the time.
So thankful my kids district didn’t go virtual aside from the initial couple week pause. Life has been largely normal for the kids in my community. My wife and I will forever be thankful to the school board and leaders and across the district who in the face of a lot of pushback made the right decisions while still creating a very safe environment for the kids to learn and options for families to have their kids take classes from home of that was their preference .
It’s amazing. Every word you typed is a lie. That’s remarkable
-
It’s amazing. Every word you typed is a lie. That’s remarkable
It’s a lie that my family is thankful to what the district was able to pull off with creating multiple options for safe learning in person and then a virtual option for those who wanted that?
-
Wow. You should use more talking points. This one doesn't have enough. I find it interesting, as a product of the Madison school district and who has family members enrolled in and graduated from the district, that it is "destroyed" though. I guess I will need to make them aware of that.
Anyway, I think Covid has accelerated many of the problems that tower outlines.
Students assaulting teachers is a regular occurrence. At East, a group of students beat the crap out of another student in a classroom. Parents are showing up at school to brawl with other parents and kids. The administrator responsible for security refuses to work with the police to identify the guilty parties.
If you think everything is fine at MMSD, then you are the biggest ostrich going.
-
Yep, we have a national crisis, and it's mostly because teachers do not get the support from parents and politicians.
You should become a teacher. All that wit and wisdom going to waste.
-
FIFY
You have British teeth then, aina? Can't see you going to the dentist, with all your hatred of the profession.
-
You have British teeth then, aina? Can't see you going to the dentist, with all your hatred of the profession.
lol.
-
Our country is doomed. The end.
-
LMFAO.
Bump to around the time in this thread of when we were having this conversation. Some interesting takes to say the least
-
Bump to around the time in this thread of when we were having this conversation. Some interesting takes to say the least
Surprised this moniker of yours has lasted that long! Well done!
-
Students assaulting teachers is a regular occurrence. At East, a group of students beat the crap out of another student in a classroom. Parents are showing up at school to brawl with other parents and kids. The administrator responsible for security refuses to work with the police to identify the guilty parties.
If you think everything is fine at MMSD, then you are the biggest ostrich going.
I blame Cobra Kai, Season 2 Finale.
-
I blame Cobra Kai, Season 2 Finale.
Season 4 almost spread to middle school....
-
We are an MPS family and our oldest is in kindergarten. Last year was terrible - we basically opted out and did the virtual homework assignments with him, but it was understandable that we all did the best with a terrible situation.
Fastforward to this year, and we have been pleased with the masking policies, things they're doing to mitigate spread and stay open. Seems as though most parents in our community share our worldview w/ respect to the pandemic, which has been re-affirming.
MPS being closed/virtual this week has just turned all of it on its head, and we're reeling. I'm upset at the lack of transparency (supposedly due to cases amongst staff), because shutting down an entire school district is the equivalent of using a hammer when a chisel is required.
Virtual school for kids of my son's age is still not just impractical, it's entirely counterproductive. The childcare situation in America is just as awful as it was in March 2020, but now it's more chaotic because corporate America has moved on and expected working parents to just cope. We as a nation took the collective trauma of 2020 and have decided Que Sera, Sera and to hell with the opportunity to provide a platform for everyone to have a shot at thriving on the other side.
I empathize with teachers, teachers unions and public school districts whose budgets have been attacked for decades, but in the here and now, kids belong in school. We have done an incredible disservice to our kids by continuously making sure the adults can return to office, return to restaurants and return to Fiserv Forum, while our kids get table scraps.
I've said it before - we are not a serious country.
-
It’s a lie that my family is thankful to what the district was able to pull off with creating multiple options for safe learning in person and then a virtual option for those who wanted that?
(https://images2.imgbox.com/37/67/47kqXPem_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/47kqXPem)
-
We are an MPS family and our oldest is in kindergarten. Last year was terrible - we basically opted out and did the virtual homework assignments with him, but it was understandable that we all did the best with a terrible situation.
Fastforward to this year, and we have been pleased with the masking policies, things they're doing to mitigate spread and stay open. Seems as though most parents in our community share our worldview w/ respect to the pandemic, which has been re-affirming.
MPS being closed/virtual this week has just turned all of it on its head, and we're reeling. I'm upset at the lack of transparency (supposedly due to cases amongst staff), because shutting down an entire school district is the equivalent of using a hammer when a chisel is required.
Virtual school for kids of my son's age is still not just impractical, it's entirely counterproductive. The childcare situation in America is just as awful as it was in March 2020, but now it's more chaotic because corporate America has moved on and expected working parents to just cope. We as a nation took the collective trauma of 2020 and have decided Que Sera, Sera and to hell with the opportunity to provide a platform for everyone to have a shot at thriving on the other side.
I empathize with teachers, teachers unions and public school districts whose budgets have been attacked for decades, but in the here and now, kids belong in school. We have done an incredible disservice to our kids by continuously making sure the adults can return to office, return to restaurants and return to Fiserv Forum, while our kids get table scraps.
I've said it before - we are not a serious country.
Man I am really sorry you have to deal with this. I am so glad I don't have to parent school age children through this.
-
If there aren't enough available healthy teachers, what exactly are the options for the school district?
Like the airlines right now. If there aren't enough healthy flight crews, there can't be flights
Annoying as hell. Sadly predictable.
-
If there aren't enough available healthy teachers, what exactly are the options for the school district?
Like the airlines right now. If there aren't enough healthy flight crews, there can't be flights
Right, but entire airlines aren't shutting down for a week.
Unless it's truly that bad in most every school, shutting an entire district down at 6PM the day before kids are supposed to be back in class is brutal.
-
If there aren't enough available healthy teachers, what exactly are the options for the school district?
Like the airlines right now. If there aren't enough healthy flight crews, there can't be flights
Annoying as hell. Sadly predictable.
Again, my ask is transparency and maybe some agility. Are there not enough for each school? Or certain schools?
I don't pretend to run a school district with extremely finite resources, but I do work with enterprise risk management and business continuity teams in the private sector, and I would have expected more creativity than throwing our hands up collectively for a school district serving over 75,000 students.
-
Again, my ask is transparency and maybe some agility. Are there not enough for each school? Or certain schools?
I don't pretend to run a school district with extremely finite resources, but I do work with enterprise risk management and business continuity teams in the private sector, and I would have expected more creativity than throwing our hands up collectively for a school district serving over 75,000 students.
Ask your average teacher what they think of their administration. Then you wouldn't be surprised by this crap.
-
Man I am really sorry you have to deal with this. I am so glad I don't have to parent school age children through this.
I am sorry you are dealing with this too! The journal sentinel has an article today quoting the president of MPS school board. He says 17% of MPS staff are currently out with covid. that is unfortunately a super high number. My wife periodically subs. Almost every school district has minimal to no substitute teachers. They just don't get paid enough to sit in a high risk environment like a school so many previous subs no longer work as subs.
-
17%. Simply a case of not having enough healthy bodies.
-
Again, my ask is transparency and maybe some agility. Are there not enough for each school? Or certain schools?
I don't pretend to run a school district with extremely finite resources, but I do work with enterprise risk management and business continuity teams in the private sector, and I would have expected more creativity than throwing our hands up collectively for a school district serving over 75,000 students.
What are you going to ask the 6th grade teacher who's class is already at max capacity to cover kindergarten simultaneously?
Have the English teacher who's class is already at max capacity now teach math simultaneously?
Substitute teacher pay has been too low in most districts for some time.
-
Should be more subs available now, one would think, with recent grads finishing their student teaching semester in the fall.
-
Students assaulting teachers is a regular occurrence. At East, a group of students beat the crap out of another student in a classroom. Parents are showing up at school to brawl with other parents and kids. The administrator responsible for security refuses to work with the police to identify the guilty parties.
If you think everything is fine at MMSD, then you are the biggest ostrich going.
These are the same posters who believe MKE hasn't changed in 30 years. Not your father's Milwaukee anymore, aina?
https://youtu.be/j6Gtc59Jqvo
-
17%. Simply a case of not having enough healthy bodies.
What's the magic number? Honest question, as I don't see it in their protocols on their website. Do they have a KPI that triggers? Unless you are physically unable to operate the school facilities, that's 83% of staff able to work. In elementary school, that'd be 6 of 8 grade levels and better than flipping the kill switch.
Again, not suggesting that there wouldn't be closures based on density in particular districts, but local autonomy within the school or district seems more appropriate.
-
Students assaulting teachers is a regular occurrence. At East, a group of students beat the crap out of another student in a classroom. Parents are showing up at school to brawl with other parents and kids. The administrator responsible for security refuses to work with the police to identify the guilty parties.
If you think everything is fine at MMSD, then you are the biggest ostrich going.
I never said everything was fine. I said it wasn't "destroyed." Much of what you describe is happening elsewhere. Some of it happened when I was in school there 35 years ago. This isn't about woke administrators.
-
These are the same posters who believe MKE hasn't changed in 30 years. Not your father's Milwaukee anymore, aina?
https://youtu.be/j6Gtc59Jqvo
First, I never said Milwaukee hasn't changed in 30 years. You're lying...just like Ziggy did.
Second, do you think shootings on the Milwaukee interstates are a new thing?
-
I am sorry you are dealing with this too! The journal sentinel has an article today quoting the president of MPS school board. He says 17% of MPS staff are currently out with covid. that is unfortunately a super high number. My wife periodically subs. Almost every school district has minimal to no substitute teachers. They just don't get paid enough to sit in a high risk environment like a school so many previous subs no longer work as subs.
You mentioned schools being a high risk environment. Any studies or data to support this?
-
You mentioned schools being a high risk environment. Any studies or data to support this?
Short version: School transmission is high when community transmission is high. Here's the rundown of some studies from pre-omicron times:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html
Although outbreaks in schools can occur, multiple studies have shown that transmission within school settings is typically lower than – or at least similar to – levels of community transmission, when prevention strategies are in place in schools. Findings from these studies include:
National surveillance data from the United Kingdom (UK) showed an association between regional COVID-19 incidence and incidence in schools. For every five additional cases per 100,000 population in regional incidence, the risk of a school outbreak increased by 72%.46
Few cases in Australian schools were reported when community transmission levels were low, and cases in schools increased when community transmission increased.2
In Michigan and Washington state, delivery of in-person instruction was not associated with increased spread of SARS-CoV-2 in schools when community transmission was low, but cases in schools did increase at moderate-to-high levels of community transmission.52 When community transmission was low, there was no association between in-person learning and community spread.52
A combined cross-sectional and cohort study in Italy between September 2020 and February 2021 found that reopening schools for in-person learning did not contribute to the second wave of SARS-CoV-2 infections.47
-
You mentioned schools being a high risk environment. Any studies or data to support this?
Posts like this repeatedly indicate you are not a serious person.
-
Posts like this repeatedly indicate you are not a serious person.
You suggesting Gov Abbot should be arrested and charged with manslaughter for not doing a mask mandate (if I remember correctly) indicates you need professional help.
-
Short version: School transmission is high when community transmission is high. Here's the rundown of some studies from pre-omicron times:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html
Sooo you’re saying worst case scenario they’re equal risk to the out of school community setting and a lot of the quotes material suggests it’s arguable a safer environment. None of what you included suggests it’s higher risk which is why Biden today strongly encouraged and supported schools staying open. He must not be a serious person either.
-
You suggesting Gov Abbot should be arrested and charged with manslaughter for not doing a mask mandate (if I remember correctly) indicates you need professional help.
I did say that Abbott should be charged with manslaughter for his unlawful order banning local government entities from establishing local mask mandates.
He recklessly and negligently led to the unnecessary injury and likely deaths of individuals.
A judge agreed with my assessment of the order, when he ruled the order violated the constitutional rights of individuals by putting them at unnecessary an unlawful risk of injury or death.
-
I never said everything was fine. I said it wasn't "destroyed." Much of what you describe is happening elsewhere. Some of it happened when I was in school there 35 years ago. This isn't about woke administrators.
I forgot, you are a woke administrator, sorry to offend, Fluffy Blue Ostrich.
-
I did say that Abbott should be charged with manslaughter for his unlawful order banning local government entities from establishing local mask mandates.
He recklessly and negligently led to the unnecessary injury and likely deaths of individuals.
A judge agreed with my assessment of the order, when he ruled the order violated the constitutional rights of individuals by putting them at unnecessary an unlawful risk of injury or death.
Seriously, get yourself some help.
-
Seriously, get yourself some help.
His post: logos
Your post: pathos
Which is more widely accepted as a legitimate intellectual thought?
-
17% out due to Covid, close the schools ..
Just wait until next September, when 25% of the teachers quit and move to another career.
The Great Resignation is going to absolutely crush the k-12 education system.
-
Chit happens, aina?
-
Chit happens, aina?
At Sobelman's? Yes, that area has always been sketchy.
-
Better be packin' when eatin' at Miss Katie's, hey?
-
One crime every few weeks? Better than where I live. A little jealous.
-
17% out due to Covid, close the schools ..
Just wait until next September, when 25% of the teachers quit and move to another career.
The Great Resignation is going to absolutely crush the k-12 education system.
First day back after break, my wife came home super frustrated and said she would take another job in another field tomorrow if she could. She said the kids are just awful and all need to be taken to the woodshed
30% of students were out today too and she has notice even more will be out tomorrow.
-
Bump to around the time in this thread of when we were having this conversation. Some interesting takes to say the least
I know of only a handful of posters who routinely like to revisit the past this far back. Maybe you'd like to name drop some people you know?
I think you know what we're talking about here.
Also, I'm not sure you really want anyone digging around and re-dunking on your stupid takes.
I'm perfectly fine with mine from then until now.... yours are pretty yikes.
-
I know of only a handful of posters who routinely like to revisit the past this far back. Maybe you'd like to name drop some people you know?
I think you know what we're talking about here.
Also, I'm not sure you really want anyone digging around and re-dunking on your stupid takes.
I'm perfectly fine with mine from then until now.... yours are pretty yikes.
I revisited only because someone called me a liar so to prove them wrong what else am I supposed to do, just let them call me a liar or prove with “receipts” that what I say today is what I said then??
Your takes where wrong then, wrong today but you are too big of a coward to admit it or to ignorant it (not having children) to realize it. Just back seat driving. I’ve had a few opinions on here that weren’t great and more often then not I have no problem recognizing that. But I also know when I’ve been right and will spike that football as well.
-
17% out due to Covid, close the schools ..
Just wait until next September, when 25% of the teachers quit and move to another career.
The Great Resignation is going to absolutely crush the k-12 education system.
If that’s the case then it was never about the kids for those that walk away from it.
-
If that’s the case then it was never about the kids for those that walk away from it.
🤪🤪🤪
Another terrible take. It’s a job. Just because you like dealing with kids, that’s doesn’t mean you like your job. Those can both be true.
-
Bull Chit
Here ya go Einstein, hey?
https://youtu.be/M1b1T2AYFHY
-
Here ya go Einstein, hey?
https://youtu.be/M1b1T2AYFHY
You continuously present anecdotal stories as universal truths. Pretty dumb.
-
And you and the woke crowd continue to minimize the ancillary consequences of our illogical, bureaucratic, governmental response to the pandemic, aina?
-
And you and the woke crowd continue to minimize the ancillary consequences of our illogical, bureaucratic, governmental response to the pandemic, aina?
As someone that comes from a family of teachers and has intimate knowledge of teachers, teachers unions and administrations, I have a pretty good understanding of what’s going on currently and what has been going on for decades.
-
And you and the woke crowd continue to minimize the ancillary consequences of our illogical, bureaucratic, governmental response to the pandemic, aina?
I think schools should be open and taught in person because I think the ancillary consequences of not doing so exceed the dangers of Covid.
I just don't make foolish blanket statements like "teachers don't want to teach." I think teachers most definitely want to teach, but are now dealing with enforcing health protocols, and unsympathetic and occasionally hostile parents and students, which is all piled on top of the crap they have had to deal with over the last decade.
We as a society have devalued the teacher over the last 20 years. The vast, vast majority want to teach. That's what they signed up for.
-
I think schools should be open and taught in person because I think the ancillary consequences of not doing so exceed the dangers of Covid.
I just don't make foolish blanket statements like "teachers don't want to teach." I think teachers most definitely want to teach, but are now dealing with enforcing health protocols, and unsympathetic and occasionally hostile parents and students, which is all piled on top of the crap they have had to deal with over the last decade.
We as a society have devalued the teacher over the last 20 years. The vast, vast majority want to teach. That's what they signed up for.
40 Years.
-
I think schools should be open and taught in person because I think the ancillary consequences of not doing so exceed the dangers of Covid.
I just don't make foolish blanket statements like "teachers don't want to teach." I think teachers most definitely want to teach, but are now dealing with enforcing health protocols, and unsympathetic and occasionally hostile parents and students, which is all piled on top of the crap they have had to deal with over the last decade.
We as a society have devalued the teacher over the last 20 years. The vast, vast majority want to teach. That's what they signed up for.
Amen.
-
I think schools should be open and taught in person because I think the ancillary consequences of not doing so exceed the dangers of Covid.
I just don't make foolish blanket statements like "teachers don't want to teach." I think teachers most definitely want to teach, but are now dealing with enforcing health protocols, and unsympathetic and occasionally hostile parents and students, which is all piled on top of the crap they have had to deal with over the last decade.
We as a society have devalued the teacher over the last 20 years. The vast, vast majority want to teach. That's what they signed up for.
Well, in Chicago, the teacher's union forced this to a vote or they were going to strike. 88% voted for the proposal. Pretty convincing evidence to me, aina?
-
Well, in Chicago, the teacher's union forced this to a vote or they were going to strike. 88% voted for the proposal. Pretty convincing evidence to me, aina?
Oh. So I see we are back to anecdotal stories leading to blanket truths. ::) ::) ::)
-
Well, in Chicago, the teacher's union forced this to a vote or they were going to strike. 88% voted for the proposal. Pretty convincing evidence to me, aina?
And I look at it as educated people making educated decisions to protect their own health and the health of their students.
-
The concept teachers are motivated by the thought they are helping children learn / helping the future of society is indeed often correct -- Being an educator can very much be a "calling."
But .. it's monumentally bogus to use that as a bludgeon for them to put up with all the crap in the education system.
Many districts are quietly in crisis right now. That's going to explode during next summer's Great Resignation.
-
Then what's the point of the vaccine? FD Joe now readily admits the federal government cannot control spread of the virus. That's up to individual states. Of course, that's backpedaling on 1 of his fundamental campaign promises.
Yet, he finds it appropriate to attempt federal vaccine mandates, aina?
#buffoon
-
Then what's the point of the vaccine? FD Joe now readily admits the federal government cannot control spread of the virus. That's up to individual states. Of course, that's backpedaling on 1 of his fundamental campaign promises.
Yet, he finds it appropriate to attempt federal vaccine mandates, aina?
#buffoon
This is completely circular.
-
Then what's the point of the vaccine? FD Joe now readily admits the federal government cannot control spread of the virus. That's up to individual states. Of course, that's backpedaling on 1 of his fundamental campaign promises.
Yet, he finds it appropriate to attempt federal vaccine mandates, aina?
#buffoon
Arsonist again blames Fire Department.
Do dentists need to take mental acuity tests in order to keep practicing?
-
Oh. So I see we are back to anecdotal stories leading to blanket truths. ::) ::) ::)
The 3rd largest school district in the country voting 88% to strike is anecdotal now?
Rico saying that his family is full of teachers and he understands is anecdotal. CTU striking on 1 day notice to families is not. Black and brown students no matta now?
Also, you keep referencing 10 years. So you are saying that the world of education was all seashells and balloons before evil Scott Walker came along. Too bad that the current dead fish was head of DPI during the last 10 years too. But then we all know that he is a feckless empty suit.
-
Lock before the in
-
I revisited only because someone called me a liar so to prove them wrong what else am I supposed to do, just let them call me a liar or prove with “receipts” that what I say today is what I said then??
Your takes where wrong then, wrong today but you are too big of a coward to admit it or to ignorant it (not having children) to realize it. Just back seat driving. I’ve had a few opinions on here that weren’t great and more often then not I have no problem recognizing that. But I also know when I’ve been right and will spike that football as well.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You keep up the good work!
-
The 3rd largest school district in the country voting 88% to strike is anecdotal now?
Rico saying that his family is full of teachers and he understands is anecdotal.
You are right. Anecdotal is the wrong word to use.
But using one example and globalizing the problem is not really a smart thing to do. And also labelling their action as "not wanting to teach" is problematic as well.
-
If that’s the case then it was never about the kids for those that walk away from it.
Look man, we're all fcking exhausted. You know who is the most exhausted? The people that have spent 2 years trying to do right by everyone around them. That includes parents who have done everything to keep their kids safe but educated. That includes teachers. That includes healthcare workers. Do physicians not want to heal people? Or are they just sick of being run into the ground and exhausted of working with people who will do everything in their power to make sure this drags on in perpetuity?
The people that seem to be doing ok are the people with ignorant or willful disregard for the people around them or society writ large. All I want is for the consequences of those decisions to be bourn by those people and exclusively those people.
I would not be nearly exhausted if everyone around me was committed to doing the right thing as my family unit. In fact, I'm confident we would be in a post-pandemic state of being.
-
Amen.
-
Look man, we're all fcking exhausted. You know who is the most exhausted? The people that have spent 2 years trying to do right by everyone around them. That includes parents who have done everything to keep their kids safe but educated. That includes teachers. That includes healthcare workers. Do physicians not want to heal people? Or are they just sick of being run into the ground and exhausted of working with people who will do everything in their power to make sure this drags on in perpetuity?
The people that seem to be doing ok are the people with ignorant or willful disregard for the people around them or society writ large. All I want is for the consequences of those decisions to be bourn by those people and exclusively those people.
I would not be nearly exhausted if everyone around me was committed to doing the right thing as my family unit. In fact, I'm confident we would be in a post-pandemic state of being.
Cute rant. If we all could be as perfect as you and your family GBW.
I agree in that everyone is exhausted. A lot (vast majority) of school districts did/have done everything possible in communication with parents to keep kids in school and to do it safely, my district included as previously noted. Unfortunately other districts haven’t and the predictable handful of posters on here who agree with the policy of shutting down schools even after learning how harmful that policy is especially for underserved communities by should be called out for their tunneled vision ignorance.
We know how to keep kids and teachers safe. Federal govt has allotted hundreds of billions of dollars to help implement measures to prepare for what we’re facing today. So for Chicago to say f it we’re staying home, families figure it out is inexcusable.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjaminLinas/status/1478705175430893570
-
Sad but informative thread by One of MU82s favorite NYT writers.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DLeonhardt/status/1478351892463984641
-
Sad but informative thread by One of MU82s favorite NYT writers.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DLeonhardt/status/1478351892463984641
I read this yesterday. It is very good.
-
Unfortunately other districts haven’t and the predictable handful of posters on here who agree with the policy of shutting down schools even after learning how harmful that policy is especially for underserved communities by should be called out for their tunneled vision ignorance.
Who here is calling for schools to be shut down?
-
It's amusing how people think teachers are like soldiers in the Army, where you can order them to take the hill, and they'll go and take the hill or die trying.
I mean, you /can/ order teachers to 'storm the castle,' but in the era of the Great Resignation, the flood of teachers quitting is going to be simply catastrophic in September 2022. -- It probably is going to be anyhow, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Good luck, society.
-
Why are you guys still giving the constantly lying disinformation spreading troll any oxygen?
-
Why are you guys still giving the constantly lying disinformation spreading troll any oxygen?
'Ignore' for months.
-
It's amusing how people think teachers are like soldiers in the Army, where you can order them to take the hill, and they'll go and take the hill or die trying.
I mean, you /can/ order teachers to 'storm the castle,' but in the era of the Great Resignation, the flood of teachers quitting is going to be simply catastrophic in September 2022. -- It probably is going to be anyhow, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Good luck, society.
Exactly. I typed this up a few hours ago, then decided not to send it... but eff it.
"Shut up and work" doesn't work. If you didn't feel safe at work, you wouldn't go either. I applaud these teachers for standing up for themselves.
Weren't more than a few people here harping that cloth masks do nothing??? What should we do with the millions of students that do not have access to hospital grade masks? Teachers, too? Provide them? Great. Let's do that. But we aren't, so let's consider a pause for two weeks while we are at the apex of this wave. Kids and their families went through this last year, so they're prepared. How many teachers should get sick and be out before this decision is made? If a teacher gets sick and has to be out for a week or two, who picks up those students? I promise you, there are no substitutes to be found anywhere. National Guard? They're busy at hospitals filling in. And should they be asked to do this for the PEANUTS we compensate them with?
Require vaccinations for students and teachers, provide proper PPE for all, and continue to work on facility upgrades that improve ventilation. When that sort of stuff happens, I'm sure the teachers would feel safe enough to resume teaching.
-
Exactly. I typed this up a few hours ago, then decided not to send it... but eff it.
"Shut up and work" doesn't work. If you didn't feel safe at work, you wouldn't go either. I applaud these teachers for standing up for themselves.
Weren't more than a few people here harping that cloth masks do nothing??? What should we do with the millions of students that do not have access to hospital grade masks? Teachers, too? Provide them? Great. Let's do that. But we aren't, so let's consider a pause for two weeks while we are at the apex of this wave. Kids and their families went through this last year, so they're prepared. How many teachers should get sick and be out before this decision is made? If a teacher gets sick and has to be out for a week or two, who picks up those students? I promise you, there are no substitutes to be found anywhere. National Guard? They're busy at hospitals filling in. And should they be asked to do this for the PEANUTS we compensate them with?
Require vaccinations for students and teachers, provide proper PPE for all, and continue to work on facility upgrades that improve ventilation. When that sort of stuff happens, I'm sure the teachers would feel safe enough to resume teaching.
I like a lot of what you said. One small thing to consider….if 99% of professions didn’t show up to work cause they didn’t feel safe they would be fired. Proper PPE is great idea as the cloth stuff makes no sense. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been given to schools for improved ventilation etc many months ago at the demand of teachers otherwise they wouldn’t go back to the classroom this past fall, did that not happen? If not where did the money go?
As far as requiring vaccinations. Teachers union successfully lobbied for their teachers to not have a mandate on them out in place for them but from what I remember 90%+ are already so not sure a mandate would move the needle.
I’d also add that 95% of schools districts went back this week and teachers/kids aren’t dropping like flies.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1478864638137802753
I agree on absolutely zero with this guy but he’s asking the right question at least.
-
Look man, we're all fcking exhausted. You know who is the most exhausted? The people that have spent 2 years trying to do right by everyone around them. That includes parents who have done everything to keep their kids safe but educated. That includes teachers. That includes healthcare workers. Do physicians not want to heal people? Or are they just sick of being run into the ground and exhausted of working with people who will do everything in their power to make sure this drags on in perpetuity?
The people that seem to be doing ok are the people with ignorant or willful disregard for the people around them or society writ large. All I want is for the consequences of those decisions to be bourn by those people and exclusively those people.
I would not be nearly exhausted if everyone around me was committed to doing the right thing as my family unit. In fact, I'm confident we would be in a post-pandemic state of being.
Nailed it!!
-
Nm
-
I like a lot of what you said. One small thing to consider….if 99% of professions didn’t show up to work cause they didn’t feel safe they would be fired. Proper PPE is great idea as the cloth stuff makes no sense. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been given to schools for improved ventilation etc many months ago at the demand of teachers otherwise they wouldn’t go back to the classroom this past fall, did that not happen? If not where did the money go?
As far as requiring vaccinations. Teachers union successfully lobbied for their teachers to not have a mandate on them out in place for them but from what I remember 90%+ are already so not sure a mandate would move the needle.
I’d also add that 95% of schools districts went back this week and teachers/kids aren’t dropping like flies.
When asking where the money has gone, we might also ask which state legislatures (led by people that rhyme with Goblin Moss) are playing repeated politics with federal money allocation.
-
When asking where the money has gone, we might also ask which state legislatures (led by people that rhyme with Goblin Moss) are playing repeated politics with federal money allocation.
Is that true? I haven’t heard that but if you have a link or something saying Wisconsin’s share of federal relive as part of the c19 relief packages is being distributed because if republicans holding it up then that’s definitely a problem.
-
Is that true? I haven’t heard that but if you have a link or something saying Wisconsin’s share of federal relive as part of the c19 relief packages is being distributed because if republicans holding it up then that’s definitely a problem.
(https://images2.imgbox.com/2c/7a/Hy99HYuV_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/Hy99HYuV)
-
"Shut up and work" doesn't work. If you didn't feel safe at work, you wouldn't go either. I applaud these teachers for standing up for themselves.
It’s worked for every essential worker we have from firemen to health care workers to policemen to meat packers to grocery clerks to etc., etc., etc. - but I guess educating our children and looking out for their mental health/well being isn’t considered essential any more. Sad what these teachers have done. Incomprehensible that there are people applauding them for doing it.
-
Why are you guys still giving the constantly lying disinformation spreading troll any oxygen?
I remain perpetually in awe of the commitment of time and energy that he has dedicated to this troll job, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. What's the goal here? Get plaudits from the handful of like-minded posters that you're likely to never meet or otherwise interact with? Surely he can't think he's going to change any hearts and minds. He's lit so much of his finite time on this earth on fire to what, annoy people he disagrees with?
It's baffling.
-
It’s worked for every essential worker we have from firemen to health care workers to policemen to meat packers to grocery clerks to etc., etc., etc. - but I guess educating our children and looking out for their mental health/well being isn’t considered essential any more. Sad what these teachers have done. Incomprehensible that there are people applauding them for doing it.
I get it Lenny, the plebs should be happy with gruel. And they should be thankful they even get gruel! Sacrifice yourselves and your mental and physical health for the greater good of the economy!
Maybe, just maybe, we should start paying our 'essential' workers what they're worth to society and treating them with respect. Calling them heroes, and thanking them for their service is a platitude at best, and insulting at worst.
-
It’s worked for every essential worker we have from firemen to health care workers to policemen to meat packers to grocery clerks to etc., etc., etc. - but I guess educating our children and looking out for their mental health/well being isn’t considered essential any more. Sad what these teachers have done. Incomprehensible that there are people applauding them for doing it.
There have been upsurges in absenteeism in both health care and fire and police personnel. This isn't limited to teachers.
Completely anecdotal, but I work with a local alderperson who shared that the municipality is seeing more and more police and fire personnel turn down overtime that was routinely taken in the past and the people overseeing those areas are saying it is due to limiting exposure.
tower and brew could chime in here too.
-
It’s worked for every essential worker we have from firemen to health care workers to policemen to meat packers to grocery clerks to etc., etc., etc. - but I guess educating our children and looking out for their mental health/well being isn’t considered essential any more. Sad what these teachers have done. Incomprehensible that there are people applauding them for doing it.
Many states, including Texas and Florida, already made the bolded decision, when they established priorities for vaccination. They concluded educators were not essential workers, and moved them down the list to the same place as the average citizen.
Educators want to teach. They just don't want to sacrifice their own health, or the health of their loved ones to do son. Medical professionals can ensure that every patient is masked, that every visitor is masked. No one questions that decision. Medical and emergency responders are provided N95, or better masks, and the delivery of them are prioritized to these individuals. Teachers, cannot mandate masks, have to provide their own, and for much of the pandemic couldn't get N95 quality masks.
If you want them to be essential, and feel essential, treat them like they are essential.
Anecdotal, but I have a number of these stories regarding teachers wanting to teach, but to do so safely. I know of a teacher who has two family members they take care of. One is immunocompromised due to organ transplant, the other is immunocompromised for a number of reasons including cancer. They have taught this entire time...but now are quitting. They are in a district that refuses to do mask mandates, but mandates in person instruction.
They have requested to be allowed to mandate masks in their class...denied. They have requested an exemption from in person teaching, due to health risks to family. They were denied. In this recent Omicron surge, they asked for their class to be temporarily remote. They were denied. They requested the district provide them with N95 masks...denied.
So they quit, a couple days before school starts back up. They were sick of being treated like an expendable. The classes they teach are now in jeopardy of not being offered, because they can't find replacements.
-
40 Years.
40 years is probably about right. It coincides with woman’s liberation. Women have always been the backbone of K -12 education and 40 (50,60,70) years ago opportunities for women in the work force were limited - almost non existent. Most of the best and the brightest chose teaching (or nursing) as a career because it was all that was available. Now the smartest, most creative and most driven women have options - and the people who once were teachers can now be doctors, lawyers, business professionals, etc. - IMO the solution isn’t giving our present teachers more money/greater benefits - it’s raising salaries/benefits in order to attract a new generation of more qualified teachers.
-
It’s worked for every essential worker we have from firemen to health care workers to policemen to meat packers to grocery clerks to etc., etc., etc. - but I guess educating our children and looking out for their mental health/well being isn’t considered essential any more. Sad what these teachers have done. Incomprehensible that there are people applauding them for doing it.
So, you're saying you haven't heard of the Great Resignation? How the health care/meat packers/grocery industries are short staffed, reducing hours and capacity because their workforce is quitting?
You can call a job essential all you wish. It doesn't mean those who have the job will continue doing it.
No doubt, for some teaching is a mission, calling, vocation. It's still a J-O-B, where if the cons outweigh the pros, individuals will just quit.
People like you, saying what they've done is "sad" only adds fuel to the inevitable reckoning.
"What happened to all the teachers? Can't they just endure another few decades of declining respect, declining pay, and sh1tty children? How selfish of them! #sad."
-
40 years is probably about right. It coincides with woman’s liberation. Women have always been the backbone of K -12 education and 40 (50,60,70) years ago opportunities for women in the work force were limited - almost non existent. Most of the best and the brightest chose teaching (or nursing) as a career because it was all that was available. Now the smartest, most creative and most driven women have options - and the people who once were teachers can now be doctors, lawyers, business professionals, etc. - IMO the solution isn’t giving our present teachers more money/greater benefits - it’s raising salaries/benefits in order to attract a new generation of more qualified teachers.
LOL. Come on.... 40 years ago was 1980. Not 1950.
-
There have been upsurges in absenteeism in both health care and fire and police personnel. This isn't limited to teachers.
Completely anecdotal, but I work with a local alderperson who shared that the municipality is seeing more and more police and fire personnel turn down overtime that was routinely taken in the past and the people overseeing those areas are saying it is due to limiting exposure.
tower and brew could chime in here too.
This wave is racking us worse than previous waves. Actually browning out machines. First time since the great recession. Of course, part of my department's problem is they have never brought staffing up to pre-recession numbers. 20% smaller than 15 years ago. Less cushion, less people available to work. Same thing on the police side in my municipality. Overtime not being picked up. Dispatchers telling car accidents to trade insurance and drive away if the accident is minor. Other minor calls just being shunted to the side.
I feel horrible for the teachers. I look at that family in Oxford, Michigan, and realize that there are a whole lot of parents out there just like that. Self absorbed with terrible parenting skills. And the teachers actually do their job and report troubling behavior and the parents are able to walk away and refuse to deal with it. If the teacher attempts to discipline, the parents come and scream at the teacher as their child has never received discipline because they are perfect.
Projecting that to the current COVID wave, the teachers have little to no idea what the vaccination status is in their classroom and if they attempt to enforce masking, some darling is going to project the Karen tendencies of their parents and throw a hissy. As well as parents sending their children to school knowing they are symptomatic.
Lenny, I am sure your school district would appreciate you signing up to substitute teach. And this is a question directly to you. If you won't, why not?
-
I get it Lenny, the plebs should be happy with gruel. And they should be thankful they even get gruel! Sacrifice yourselves and your mental and physical health for the greater good of the economy!
Maybe, just maybe, we should start paying our 'essential' workers what they're worth to society and treating them with respect. Calling them heroes, and thanking them for their service is a platitude at best, and insulting at worst.
Sorry, Hards - you don’t get it -at all.
-
Sorry, Hards - you don’t get it -at all.
You're right, brother, I'm the one that time has passed by. ::)
-
Cops are fleeing the profession and departments are having an extraordinarily difficult time filling open positions. Departments that would get 500 candidates to show up for a testing session five years ago are thrilled if they get 100 today. Nationwide, departments are operating at about 93 percent staffing.
So, the idea that cops are sucking it up while teachers are being babies is provably false.
-
IMO the solution isn’t giving our present teachers more money/greater benefits - it’s raising salaries/benefits in order to attract a new generation of more qualified teachers.
Huh?
-
LOL. Come on.... 40 years ago was 1980. Not 1950.
Guess you missed my 50, 60, 70. It started 60-70 years ago and has gained steam each decade. And it’s (women’s liberation, that is) a very good thing. But one of the casualties has been K-12 education.
-
Cops are fleeing the profession and departments are having an extraordinarily difficult time filling open positions. Departments that would get 500 candidates to show up for a testing session five years ago are thrilled if they get 100 today. Nationwide, departments are operating at about 93 percent staffing.
So, the idea that cops are sucking it up while teachers are being babies is provably false.
Cops are fleeing because of Covid? Guess you missed the BLM riots, defunding efforts and all the rest from the “summer of love”.
-
Cops are fleeing because of Covid? Guess you missed the BLM riots, defunding efforts and all the rest from the “summer of love”.
Cops are fleeing the profession because they feel disrespected.
Teachers are fleeing the profession because they feel disrespected.
Lenny finds one understandable, the other despicable.
-
Cops are fleeing because of Covid? Guess you missed the BLM riots, defunding efforts and all the rest from the “summer of love”.
Both things can be true. And far more have died from COVID over the last two years than from violence.
-
Guess you missed my 50, 60, 70. It started 60-70 years ago and has gained steam each decade. And it’s (women’s liberation, that is) a very good thing. But one of the casualties has been K-12 education.
So you're argument here is that we don't have as many teachers now as we did back then is because women can be doctors and lawyers?
(https://c.tenor.com/jfKTQfYq7rcAAAAC/please-do-go-on.gif)
Please remember to show your work!
Strange. My parents (one a teacher/principal/administrator, the other a teacher, both for 40+ years) basically forbid me from being a teacher for none of those reasons. I was told parents suck, the pay is garbage, school board members are buffoons, and you don't actually get to teach anything anymore.
-
Lenny, I am sure your school district would appreciate you signing up to substitute teach. And this is a question directly to you. If you won't, why not?
Tower, I’m 73 years old. I volunteered my time to coach baseball and basketball until my late 60s. Now I volunteer at the local food pantry. Probably doesn’t measure up to your standards/expectations but I’m at peace with myself.
-
Guess you missed my 50, 60, 70. It started 60-70 years ago and has gained steam each decade. And it’s (women’s liberation, that is) a very good thing. But one of the casualties has been K-12 education.
40 years ago means they would be 62-63 now. I guaranty you there are PLENTY of good teachers who are younger than that now, both women and men.
-
Tower, I’m 73 years old. I volunteered my time to coach baseball and basketball until my late 60s. Now I volunteer at the local food pantry. Probably doesn’t measure up to your standards/expectations but I’m at peace with myself.
Good for you. I appreciate anybody giving back in whatever form.
-
So you're argument here is that we don't have as many teachers now as we did back then is because women can be doctors and lawyers?
(https://c.tenor.com/jfKTQfYq7rcAAAAC/please-do-go-on.gif)
Please remember to show your work!
Strange. My parents (one a teacher/principal/administrator, the other a teacher, both for 40+ years) basically forbid me from being a teacher for none of those reasons. I was told parents suck, the pay is garbage, school board members are buffoons, and you don't actually get to teach anything anymore.
You obviously have trouble connecting dots. I can’t help you with that.
Sorry that your parents were so unhappy. It’s left a mark.
-
Cops are fleeing because of Covid? Guess you missed the BLM riots, defunding efforts and all the rest from the “summer of love”.
Don't forget about the winter of hate, when well over 100+ cops were injured during Trump's violent coup attempt one year ago today.
-
40 years is probably about right. It coincides with woman’s liberation. Women have always been the backbone of K -12 education and 40 (50,60,70) years ago opportunities for women in the work force were limited - almost non existent. Most of the best and the brightest chose teaching (or nursing) as a career because it was all that was available. Now the smartest, most creative and most driven women have options - and the people who once were teachers can now be doctors, lawyers, business professionals, etc. - IMO the solution isn’t giving our present teachers more money/greater benefits - it’s raising salaries/benefits in order to attract a new generation of more qualified teachers.
In many cases, the teachers today are better trained, better educated, and better qualified.
They are just now realizing that they are over qualified for a crappy job, that pays bad, and where you have no autonomy or respect.
-
40 years ago means they would be 62-63 now. I guaranty you there are PLENTY of good teachers who are younger than that now, both women and men.
Of course there are - some incredibly smart and gifted people still choose teaching. But a whole lot of Uber talented people who didn’t have much of a choice now do - that makes the pool from which our teachers come a weaker one.
-
Don't forget about the winter of hate, when well over 100+ cops were injured during Trump's violent coup attempt one year ago today.
I’m counting on you to remind us all on a regular basis. Good job!
-
You obviously have trouble connecting dots. I can’t help you with that.
Sorry that your parents were so unhappy. It’s left a mark.
That's some interesting projection you've got there, Tony.
My parents taught me to stand up for myself and others when they're being wronged. Yours must have told you to keep your head down and ignore injustice.
You: Teachers who don't want to work in dangerous conditions are bad
also You: Police officers who don't want to work in dangerous conditions are justified
You're just a run of the mill hypocrite.
-
Yeah, butt ewe worant taught ta knot vote fore memburrs of da Squad, hey?
-
Lenny, I am sure your school district would appreciate you signing up to substitute teach. And this is a question directly to you. If you won't, why not?
I actually gave some serious thought to signing up to substitute teach where I live during the school year. The problem is that you are expected to be available every single school day in case they need you. If you turn down assignments more than a certain number of times (I don't remember the exact number, but it was relatively small), they drop you from the list.
I have other things going on in my life and I can't be on call every day. If I could sign up for just the blocks of days where I would be available, I would do it.
-
Boychik, dat's meshuggah thinkin' on ur part, aina?
-
Yeah, butt ewe worant taught ta knot vote fore memburrs of da Squad, hey?
The elderly are often easy targets for scams, propaganda, and disinformation due to their rapidly declining cognitive skills.
-
I’m counting on you to remind us all on a regular basis. Good job!
Sure thing. And thanks to you for bringing up BLM riots for the 8,800th time, too.
Of course, those weren't a coordinated effort by the president of the United States and members of Congress to subvert our democracy. Happy Insurrection Day!
-
I actually gave some serious thought to signing up to substitute teach where I live during the school year. The problem is that you are expected to be available every single school day in case they need you. If you turn down assignments more than a certain number of times (I don't remember the exact number, but it was relatively small), they drop you from the list.
I have other things going on in my life and I can't be on call every day. If I could sign up for just the blocks of days where I would be available, I would do it.
I did it for my daughter's elementary school a couple of times. The logic being that I already went on the field trips and coached a bunch of them, I was really good with them in those roles, how bad could it be? The experience taught me my limits and increased my appreciation for teachers.
-
I did it for my daughter's elementary school a couple of times. The logic being that I already went on the field trips and coached a bunch of them, I was really good with them in those roles, how bad could it be? The experience taught me my limits and increased my appreciation for teachers.
It's probably easier if you have an "in" at a school, which I don't. My sister volunteered a lot at her kids' elementary school, and she ended up being the first person they would call whenever they needed a sub.
I just think our district needs to make better use of folks like me. As it is, their teacher shortage is so severe that they are taking the cruise ship approach and recruiting internationally.
-
I actually gave some serious thought to signing up to substitute teach where I live during the school year. The problem is that you are expected to be available every single school day in case they need you. If you turn down assignments more than a certain number of times (I don't remember the exact number, but it was relatively small), they drop you from the list.
I have other things going on in my life and I can't be on call every day. If I could sign up for just the blocks of days where I would be available, I would do it.
That's a wonderful thing to have considered. But you see the irony of how you were frustrated at the stupid systems in place just trying to help. Consider how teachers feel rather than just how it effected your experience? There's a million of these stupid bureaucratic bs policies.
(Not pointing at you but at the broader anti teacher sentiment a certain side supports)
-
Cops are fleeing the profession and departments are having an extraordinarily difficult time filling open positions. Departments that would get 500 candidates to show up for a testing session five years ago are thrilled if they get 100 today. Nationwide, departments are operating at about 93 percent staffing.
So, the idea that cops are sucking it up while teachers are being babies is provably false.
If you think staffing issues in police departments is due to covid, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
-
Don't forget about the winter of hate, when well over 100+ cops were injured during Trump's violent coup attempt one year ago today.
Are you having a big party today or just immediate family?
-
Don't forget about the winter of hate, when well over 100+ cops were injured during Trump's violent coup attempt one year ago today.
Do Portland and Seattle next.
-
Are you having a big party today or just immediate family?
Personally? No party for me but solemn reflection on adequately understanding how things would end after America elected a narcissistic grifter reality TV star. It’s the future and hoping lessons were learned but knowing they weren’t.
-
If you think staffing issues in police departments is due to covid, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
I mean, the same can be said about teaching and just about any public servant role
-
If you think staffing issues in police departments is due to covid, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
But if you sold me your bridge, you'd have nothing to live under.
-
If you think staffing issues in police departments is due to covid, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
Oh no, all the cops who can't do racism and assault are leaving! What a terrible result!
-
Personally? No party for me but solemn reflection on adequately understanding how things would end after America elected a narcissistic grifter reality TV star. It’s the future and hoping lessons were learned but knowing they weren’t.
Well the Paul brothers announced they're going to run in 2032 so we'll see if we've learned our lesson!
-
Do Portland and Seattle next.
Ah you see, since this other thing is also bad, the thing that is bad that you are talking about is, in point and fact, NOT bad.
-
Are you having a big party today or just immediate family?
A moment of mourning, perhaps. For the shot that fascism took across the bow of democracy.
-
Well the Paul brothers announced they're going to run in 2032 so we'll see if we've learned our lesson!
I suspect the celebrity politician is going to be the new norm and not the outlier moving forward
-
I suspect the celebrity politician is going to be the new norm and not the outlier moving forward
Reagan would be proud
-
Reagan would be proud
He popped into my mind typing that but Reagan was a natural/established politician as much as an actor, especially when he ran for President. Today’s celebrity politician are far less substance and almost 100% style. That’s not a fair assessment of Reagan.
His background was more varied on the political scale as well. Though hailed in conservative circles, he had a lot of liberal ideals.
It’s always humorous to me how his legend as a conservative ideal has grown since his presidency. His last 4 years were seen as a disappointment to many in the conservative movement, especially his approach to the USSR
-
He popped into my mind typing that but Reagan was a natural/established politician as much as an actor, especially when he ran for President. Today’s celebrity politician are far less substance and almost 100% style. That’s not a fair assessment of Reagan.
His background was more varied on the political scale as well. Though hailed in conservative circles, he had a lot of liberal ideals.
It’s always humorous to me how his legend as a conservative ideal has grown since his presidency. His last 4 years were seen as a disappointment to many in the conservative movement, especially his approach to the USSR
Reagan gave illegal immigrants amnesty, hiked taxes, expanded the federal workforce, supported collective bargaining rights for public workers (air traffic controllers notwithstanding), raised the debt limit 18 times and signed an international treaty to protect the environment.
He'd be labeled a socialist RINO by today's GOP.
-
Reagan gave illegal immigrants amnesty, hiked taxes, expanded the federal workforce, supported collective bargaining rights for public workers (air traffic controllers notwithstanding), raised the debt limit 18 times and signed an international treaty to protect the environment.
He'd be labeled a socialist RINO by today's GOP.
Little doubt he would have seen right through Agent Orange as well
-
Little doubt he would have seen right through Agent Orange as well
Reagan would have joined the Republican leaders who strongly condemned Trump for what happened one year ago today, one of the saddest days in the history of our democratic republic.
And unlike Kevin McCarthy and other Republicans who strongly condemned Trump on 1/6/21 only to quickly capitulate and bend the knee in obvious political calculus, Reagan would have been more like Liz Cheney in continuing to warn Americans about the evils of Trumpism. It would have been interesting to see if Republicans would have canceled Reagan as they have Cheney, one of the most conservative members of Congress.
-
Of course there are - some incredibly smart and gifted people still choose teaching. But a whole lot of Uber talented people who didn’t have much of a choice now do - that makes the pool from which our teachers come a weaker one.
What does that have to do with how we have marginalized teachers as a country? You think we only started marginalizing them because of the weak pool? Or could it possibly be a weak pool because it's a marginalized profession?
-
Reagan gave illegal immigrants amnesty, hiked taxes, expanded the federal workforce, supported collective bargaining rights for public workers (air traffic controllers notwithstanding), raised the debt limit 18 times and signed an international treaty to protect the environment.
He'd be labeled a socialist RINO by today's GOP.
Here's one site view of where Reagan would fall in the Republican Party spectrum:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/02/25/if-ronald-reagan-ran-today-where-would-he-fall-on-the-conservative-spectrum/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/02/25/if-ronald-reagan-ran-today-where-would-he-fall-on-the-conservative-spectrum/)
-
Here's one site view of where Reagan would fall in the Republican Party spectrum:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/02/25/if-ronald-reagan-ran-today-where-would-he-fall-on-the-conservative-spectrum/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/02/25/if-ronald-reagan-ran-today-where-would-he-fall-on-the-conservative-spectrum/)
Interesting, but that was seven years ago. I'd say the party has changed quite a bit since then.
-
Interesting, but that was seven years ago. I'd say the party has changed quite a bit since then.
I agree with you.
I also honestly think Reagan would have figuratively and literally kicked Trumps ass if he was around to run in 2016.
-
Reagan gave illegal immigrants amnesty, hiked taxes, expanded the federal workforce, supported collective bargaining rights for public workers (air traffic controllers notwithstanding), raised the debt limit 18 times and signed an international treaty to protect the environment.
He'd be labeled a socialist RINO by today's GOP.
Oohhhhh this is fun! Now do Nixon! He had some pretty socialist ideas about healthcare!
-
So nothing about February 2011 insurrection on Madison, Wisconsin?? Ohhhh, mostly peaceful, just peeing and crapping on the steps…that would be called bio hazardous eyna? We are seeing within one year where the beliefs of many of you here got us…into a big chit hole that is far from temporary, affecting mostly those who cannot afford to bale out. hitler is blushing down there
-
So nothing about February 2011 insurrection on Madison, Wisconsin?? Ohhhh, mostly peaceful, just peeing and crapping on the steps…that would be called bio hazardous eyna? We are seeing within one year where the beliefs of many of you here got us…into a big chit hole that is far from temporary, affecting mostly those who cannot afford to bale out. hitler is blushing down there
10 of 10
Bravo, sent this to the alumni association
-
Were they armed? Did they plant pipe bombs? Did they storm the barricades and threaten legislators and the vice president?
-
So nothing about February 2011 insurrection on Madison, Wisconsin?? Ohhhh, mostly peaceful, just peeing and crapping on the steps…that would be called bio hazardous eyna? We are seeing within one year where the beliefs of many of you here got us…into a big chit hole that is far from temporary, affecting mostly those who cannot afford to bale out. hitler is blushing down there
Both are bad. One is considerably worse. Every country has race inequality riots. Only third world countries are breaking down barricades chanting to kill politicians and storming democratic buildings. (Twice mind you, everybody's forgotten that it happened at a state building in Michigan as well)
-
Fan, I'd like you comments on the whole LGBTQ issue. My daughter is a Middle school teacher and this is one of her biggest frustrations. She is perfectly fine respecting students as they are or want to be. But she feels the schools have put student's feelings as the top priority with teaching becoming secondary.
Just wondering how your wife is dealing with this in school.
I don't know if this answers your questions?
My wife's high school added "Gender Neutral" bathrooms. They converted two of the teacher only restrooms. She said the students for the most part are good with it and actually treat them more as "anyone can use these bathrooms." At the beginning of the school year a few idiot kids left obscene graffiti. (They were caught and punished.) The schools are trying to make it welcoming and learning place for all.
My wife has shared some LGBTQ student stories she has heard.
Student feelings question - Every kid seems to be diagnosed with something (somewhat exaggeration) and in the last 5 years every other kid (also somewhat exaggeration) now has an "anxiety". The diagnosis is probably correct, but the issue is the parents terribly let the kids use "the diagnosis" as a crutch and excuse. "Sorry the assignment is late, but my kid is too anxious over COVID and couldn't finish on time." (What student ISN'T these days?) The teachers are stuck, because of the diagnosis they have to allow more time and then they find themselves correcting and older assignment after they've already moved on to the next topic.
-
A survey of 663 school districts in Illinois found that 88 percent have a shortage of full-time teachers and 96 percent are short on subs.
Combined, they have more than 2,000 vacant teaching positions, twice as many as a year ago.
https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20220118/our-schools-need-help-most-districts-in-illinois-face-a-worsening-teacher-shortage
-
My wife's district has now hired two "building" subs, full time positions. I think that trend will expand.
Thinking of subs as an on-demand, cheap labor source is coming to an end. Of course, that puts more downward pressure on regular teacher salaries.
It'll be interesting with inflation in the 5-6-7% range what'll happen with teachers (and all) unions who have been enduring 1-2% salary increases. My guess for Wisconsin .. the state legislature will decline to add funds, more teachers will resign, rinse, repeat.
-
My wife's district has now hired two "building" subs, full time positions. I think that trend will expand.
Thinking of subs as an on-demand, cheap labor source is coming to an end. Of course, that puts more downward pressure on regular teacher salaries.
It'll be interesting with inflation in the 5-6-7% range what'll happen with teachers (and all) unions who have been enduring 1-2% salary increases. My guess for Wisconsin .. the state legislature will decline to add funds, more teachers will resign, rinse, repeat.
I thought they were all going to quit (except at the Catholic schools).
-
I thought they were all going to quit (except at the Catholic schools).
I'd posted earlier the typical year, 8% of teachers resign .. next year, it's estimated at 25%.
-
I'd posted earlier the typical year, 8% of teachers resign .. next year, it's estimated at 25%.
Topper - sorry if I was glib or disrespectful. I’m sure teachers are unhappy/dissatisfied for a lot of reasons. Some are unhappy that they had to return to the classroom. Some are unhappy with parents becoming involved with curriculum. Some are unhappy that they were kept away from their classrooms for so long (or at all). And likely a much higher number than the usual 8% are just generally unhappy (which seems to be true about a whole lot of professions right now). 25% seems high to me, but time will tell. Honest question: are the estimates the same for all K-12 teachers or just public school teachers? Also, I’d be interested if the resignation estimates are the same for teachers who have been in the classroom for all or most of the pandemic as it is for those who have been remote for most or all of it.
-
Topper - sorry if I was glib or disrespectful. I’m sure teachers are unhappy/dissatisfied for a lot of reasons. Some are unhappy that they had to return to the classroom. Some are unhappy with parents becoming involved with curriculum. Some are unhappy that they were kept away from their classrooms for so long (or at all). And likely a much higher number than the usual 8% are just generally unhappy (which seems to be true about a whole lot of professions right now). 25% seems high to me, but time will tell. Honest question: are the estimates the same for all K-12 teachers or just public school teachers? Also, I’d be interested if the resignation estimates are the same for teachers who have been in the classroom for all or most of the pandemic as it is for those who have been remote for most or all of it.
After googling this issue for the past hour .. the only thing definitive about what'll happen with teacher staffing is that the problem will be worse -- but an actual number is hard to pin.
There are surveys that say "1 in 3 will resign" .. 25% .. I think this below quote is a has more interesting numbers:
As of March '21, more than half the nation's teachers (54%) said they were considering leaving the profession in the next two years, a 20 percent increase over pre-pandemic levels. The past year has made a challenging job even more difficult—84 percent of teachers reported that their work is more stressful than before the pandemic. Thirty-seven percent of teachers said they were "somewhat" or "very unsatisfied" with their jobs, a dissatisfaction rate two and a half times higher than administrators.
There's a line in there that was important, that 54% are considering leaving, but that pre-pandemic, that was 34%. Clearly, 34% weren't quitting every other year, that's a real number 8%.
If 8% left when the "consider leaving" was 34%, that gives us a ratio around 1:4. So 54% would correlate to 13.5%.
That being said .. the economy is different now than 2+ years ago, in that, the country is awash in job openings. It's never been truer than today that a teacher could quit and get a higher paid job very quickly.
As for your specific questions about the figures being for public vs. private, I know not.
I would say though, the media reported angst about teachers returning to the classrooms in the middle of a health crisis is an "old" story now. Sure, there's a fraction of uber health sensitive teachers out there, but I think that's a tiny percent by now -- which mirrors everyone else.
I mean .. 22 months ago, we thought Covid was going to kill us all. Now we know it's just mostly just old dentists. 8-)
-
Saw an interesting statistic. In Texas, only 50% of teachers are still teaching after their 10th year on the job. They see around 13% quit after their first year, and it is believed to be particularly bad since COVID.
I wonder how many other jobs have such a high triage rate.
-
I mean .. 22 months ago, we thought Covid was going to kill us all. Now we know it's just mostly just old dentists. 8-)
Topper
Truth be told we knew 21 months ago that Covid was lethal to a specific subset of the population. The people who finally know that now are quite a bit behind the curve.
-
Topper
Truth be told we knew 21 months ago that Covid was lethal to a specific subset of the population.
What "specific subset of the population" is that? Because it seems to me that, while it is more lethal to some than others, narrowing it down to a "specific" subset doesn't seem to be possible.
-
What "specific subset of the population" is that? Because it seems to me that, while it is more lethal to some than others, narrowing it down to a "specific" subset doesn't seem to be possible.
Anyone with a preexisting condition, so 100% of the elderly and ~50% of the non-elderly thanks to obesity rates.
-
Anyone with a preexisting condition, so 100% of the elderly and ~50% of the non-elderly thanks to obesity rates.
Right. And obviously that's not very "specific."
-
Right. And obviously that's not very "specific."
Right, but it's literally specific. The best kind of specific.
-
Anyone with a preexisting condition, so 100% of the elderly and ~50% of the non-elderly thanks to obesity rates.
Your numbers are ridiculous, nowhere near 50% of the non elderly population was ever at risk.
That said, why does anyone here care about fat people? By their own choices they drive insurance rates up for those who make good choices and clog our doctor’s offices and hospitals. And they’re not just more susceptible to Covid - they’re dying due to their own bad decisions from a myriad of other illnesses, too. If one thinks that the non vaxxed should be ridiculed, mocked, ostracized and maybe even untreated let’s be consistent and do the same for the fatties.
Of course I’m not being serious. Despite the fact that fat people, alcoholics, drug addicts, etc., etc., cause incredible pain and suffering to others in society because of their bad choices, most people would never vilify these folks for their poor decisions. But since the gloves are now off won’t they be next?
-
Your numbers are ridiculous, nowhere near 50% of the non elderly population was ever at risk.
That said, why does anyone here care about fat people? By their own choices they drive insurance rates up for those who make good choices and clog our doctor’s offices and hospitals. And they’re not just more susceptible to Covid - they’re dying due to their own bad decisions from a myriad of other illnesses, too. If one thinks that the non vaxxed should be ridiculed, mocked, ostracized and maybe even untreated let’s be consistent and do the same for the fatties.
I can’t catch obesity from “the fatties.”
-
I can’t catch obesity from “the fatties.”
But you can catch Covid from the vaccinated - so, dumb.
-
But you can catch Covid from the vaccinated - so, dumb.
Omicron is spread by both but is likely spread more widely and for a longer period of time by the unvaccinated.
And you are correct. Your analogy was dumb. Really dumb.
-
Omicron is spread by both but is likely spread more widely and for a longer period of time by the unvaccinated.
Likely? LOL. Very scientific “opinion”. More dumb from you.
-
Likely? LOL. Very scientific “opinion”. More dumb from you.
No per usual your brain is misfiring and can’t link key concepts together.
If the vaccinated have milder disease for a shorter time, they are going to spread it less.
-
No per usual your brain is misfiring and can’t link key concepts together.
If the vaccinated have milder disease for a shorter time, they are going to spread it less.
Pedant
-
Your numbers are ridiculous, nowhere near 50% of the non elderly population was ever at risk.
That said, why does anyone here care about fat people? By their own choices they drive insurance rates up for those who make good choices and clog our doctor’s offices and hospitals. And they’re not just more susceptible to Covid - they’re dying due to their own bad decisions from a myriad of other illnesses, too. If one thinks that the non vaxxed should be ridiculed, mocked, ostracized and maybe even untreated let’s be consistent and do the same for the fatties.
Of course I’m not being serious. Despite the fact that fat people, alcoholics, drug addicts, etc., etc., cause incredible pain and suffering to others in society because of their bad choices, most people would never vilify these folks for their poor decisions. But since the gloves are now off won’t they be next?
AMDG
-
Teachers Are Quitting, and Companies Are Hot to Hire Them
Businesses eager to fill jobs are offering former educators better pay and more autonomy
https://www.wsj.com/articles/teachers-are-quitting-and-companies-are-hot-to-hire-them-11643634181
Burned out teachers are leaving the classroom for jobs in the private sector, where talent-hungry companies are hiring them—and often boosting their pay—to work in sales, software, healthcare and training, among other fields.
-
Teachers Are Quitting, and Companies Are Hot to Hire Them
Businesses eager to fill jobs are offering former educators better pay and more autonomy
https://www.wsj.com/articles/teachers-are-quitting-and-companies-are-hot-to-hire-them-11643634181
Burned out teachers are leaving the classroom for jobs in the private sector, where talent-hungry companies are hiring them—and often boosting their pay—to work in sales, software, healthcare and training, among other fields.
Teachers are great at Customer Support and Customer Success without much training. Wonderful communicators, for the most part, and pretty high EQ.
-
Teachers are great at Customer Support and Customer Success without much training. Wonderful communicators, for the most part, and pretty high EQ.
Similarly, I know multiple teachers in Chicago and Columbus that left teaching and got very well compensated personal assistant roles for executives and bigger companies. Good communicators, organized, flexible, and high EQ fit that role well.
-
Customer service and executive assistants. Way to aim high.
I know former teachers in a lot of higher level roles. Insurance, corporate comms, corporate training, real estate all come to mind in about 8 seconds of thinking.
The biggest problem, at least in Illinois where my brother and SiL teach, is that they are so bound to their pension, that it's hard to leave. I didn't fully understand it, but I believe their social security is contributed to the pension, so they get nothing if they leave before being fully vested.
-
Customer service and executive assistants. Way to aim high.
I know former teachers in a lot of higher level roles. Insurance, corporate comms, corporate training, real estate all come to mind in about 8 seconds of thinking.
The biggest problem, at least in Illinois where my brother and SiL teach, is that they are so bound to their pension, that it's hard to leave. I didn't fully understand it, but I believe their social security is contributed to the pension, so they get nothing if they leave before being fully vested.
At my fiancés district she's not even eligible to start paying into the pension program till year 5. It's a decent way to weed out young teachers who don't want to do it forever.
-
Customer service and executive assistants. Way to aim high.
I know former teachers in a lot of higher level roles. Insurance, corporate comms, corporate training, real estate all come to mind in about 8 seconds of thinking.
The biggest problem, at least in Illinois where my brother and SiL teach, is that they are so bound to their pension, that it's hard to leave. I didn't fully understand it, but I believe their social security is contributed to the pension, so they get nothing if they leave before being fully vested.
Personal assistants, not executive assistants aka secretaries. Not a single one of those teachers is still a PA. The role is essentially chief of staff for for the C level executive they are working with. And then they get excellent experience and continue onward within the company.
-
Customer service and executive assistants. Way to aim high.
I know former teachers in a lot of higher level roles. Insurance, corporate comms, corporate training, real estate all come to mind in about 8 seconds of thinking.
The biggest problem, at least in Illinois where my brother and SiL teach, is that they are so bound to their pension, that it's hard to leave. I didn't fully understand it, but I believe their social security is contributed to the pension, so they get nothing if they leave before being fully vested.
The pay and benefits are better. No longer a political scapegoat. Not a lot of downside.
-
Personal assistants, not executive assistants aka secretaries. Not a single one of those teachers is still a PA. The role is essentially chief of staff for for the C level executive they are working with. And then they get excellent experience and continue onward within the company.
Yeah, we had a PA to the CEO that basically ran the operations of the company and was compensated very well. Easily 6 figures. Not a lot of teachers pulling down that kind of coin.
-
My wife is becoming her high school's tennis coach. She has played tennis for fun in the past, but never anything organized. Apparently, the district didn't even receive one application for the position and it's been open for quote some time. Also, tennis "pros" don't apply because they consider these positions below them (???). The school athletic director told her the tennis team basically needs a warm body as all the kids take private lessons, so they know what they are doing regardless of who the coach is. She figured the extra money is worth it with our two kids in college.
-
My wife is becoming her high school's tennis coach. She has played tennis for fun in the past, but never anything organized. Apparently, the district didn't even receive one application for the position and it's been open for quote some time. Also, tennis "pros" don't apply because they consider these positions below them (???). The school athletic director told her the tennis team basically needs a warm body as all the kids take private lessons, so they know what they are doing regardless of who the coach is. She figured the extra money is worth it with our two kids in college.
I hope she really has fun with it. I have found coaching to be very rewarding, even through the occasional headaches.
-
I hope she really has fun with it. I have found coaching to be very rewarding, even through the occasional headaches.
She has had several of the kids as students previously and she said they're "all good kids".
Plus they have two matches/tournaments a week so they kids will spend more of their time playing other high schools rather than practicing.
-
My wife is becoming her high school's tennis coach. She has played tennis for fun in the past, but never anything organized. Apparently, the district didn't even receive one application for the position and it's been open for quote some time. Also, tennis "pros" don't apply because they consider these positions below them (???). The school athletic director told her the tennis team basically needs a warm body as all the kids take private lessons, so they know what they are doing regardless of who the coach is. She figured the extra money is worth it with our two kids in college.
I don't know what your district is like, but growing up in a suburb that had a very good tennis team, that tracks. Pros at the clubs nearby would sometimes help out or assistant coach, but there wasn't really teaching or "coaching" done. The Tennis coach basically worked with the AD on scheduling, managed intra team "rankings" to determine who was playing #1 singles, etc...
The pro at the club I played at growing up said he taught/coached more actual tennis on the summer league intra-club tourney circuit than he did when he coached HS tennis for a few years.
-
I don't know what your district is like, but growing up in a suburb that had a very good tennis team, that tracks. Pros at the clubs nearby would sometimes help out or assistant coach, but there wasn't really teaching or "coaching" done. The Tennis coach basically worked with the AD on scheduling, managed intra team "rankings" to determine who was playing #1 singles, etc...
The pro at the club I played at growing up said he taught/coached more actual tennis on the summer league intra-club tourney circuit than he did when he coached HS tennis for a few years.
And probably made more money doing it.
-
At least in Wisconsin, on top of the other issues identified, it limited their ability to work with players outside the school season. It was probably more hassle than it was worth.
-
At least in Wisconsin, on top of the other issues identified, it limited their ability to work with players outside the school season. It was probably more hassle than it was worth.
Our HS baseball coach told me that he gets about 10 days with his players before their first game. The WIAA allows 5 additional days for pitchers and catchers (like 1 hour per day, every other day.)
HS sports is rapidly becoming nothing more than a hiccup in the club season.
Also, the NFHS doesn't follow standard rules or link with other associations, so there is no carry over of times, etc.
2 examples. The NFHS has their own rulebook for soccer different than the worldwide rulebook. 2nd, the NFHS swim times don't carry over to USA swimming. So the winter boys season ends a few weeks before state & up for USA swimming.
Just 2 examples that I know of.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/1519021429110489089
Despite the masks, plexiglass, lunch outside, virtual learning, social distancing, vaccine mandates, etc etc
3 in 4 kids still got Covid. For mitigation measures that we were told work so well, it’s shocking that despite these incredibly effective measures that 75% of kids still got Covid and the cherry on top is we are now facing a mental health crisis like never seen before in school aged kids. Great job guys.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/1519021429110489089 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/1519021429110489089)
Despite the masks, plexiglass, lunch outside, virtual learning, social distancing, vaccine mandates, etc etc
3 in 4 kids still got Covid. For mitigation measures that we were told work so well, it’s shocking that despite these incredibly effective measures that 75% of kids still got Covid and the cherry on top is we are now facing a mental health crisis like never seen before in school aged kids. Great job guys.
If I am interpreting that article correctly, in a single month of testing (February 2022) 3 in 4 had antibodies.
The most striking increase was in children. The percentage of those 17 and under with antibodies rose from about 45% in December to about 75% in February.
-
If I am interpreting that article correctly, in a single month of testing (February 2022) 3 in 4 had antibodies.
Pace is a known idiot
-
Pace is a known idiot
You can call him names all day, but that doesn't diminish the fact that he has a good point.
-
You can call him names all day, but that doesn't diminish the fact that he has a good point.
I can make a bunch of great points if I make up data too!
-
I can make a bunch of great points if I make up data too!
Are you saying that the CDC made this up? The CDC is the source.
For the record, I don't believe anything that comes out of the CDC, but I may be in the minority on that.
-
Are you saying that the CDC made this up? The CDC is the source.
He said "3 of 4 kids still got Covid." That is not what the article said, not what the data says and not what the CDC said.
For the record, I don't believe anything that comes out of the CDC, but I may be in the minority on that.
Shocking.
-
He said "3 of 4 kids still got Covid." That is not what the article said, not what the data says and not what the CDC said.
Shocking.
Enlighten us Fluffy on what it said then.
-
Implication by OP is kids caught it at school.
Source?
-
For the record, I don't believe anything that comes out of the CDC, but I may be in the minority on that.
Smart move, stick with the Epoch Times for all your information.
-
Enlighten us Fluffy on what it said then.
(https://www.nwcouncil.org/sites/default/files/steller-sea-lion.jpg)
-
Implication by OP is kids caught it at school.
Source?
Nope never implied that, nor did the article.
-
Enlighten us Fluffy on what it said then.
Read what Spotcheck said above.
-
How could that have happened? I'm sure she's double boosted, wears a mask, and is extra cautious. I hope she'll be alright, aina?
-
Read what Spotcheck said above.
What spotcheck said the article stated 3 out of 4 kids had antibodies from prior Covid infection. How is that different from what I said?
-
How could that have happened? I'm sure she's double boosted, wears a mask, and is extra cautious. I hope she'll be alright, aina?
Pretty easily. The American population had an opportunity to avoid this kind of infection rate had they attempted to mitigate the spread upon its arrival on these shores.
Unfortunately, we were ill-prepared to do so because we gutted our pandemic response plan after the 2016 election. On top of that, our fragmented governments across the nation are incapable of working together and sharing information.
You add the selfishness of the random American citizen to be inconvenienced and it’s not a surprise our handling of the pandemic was an abject failure in every regard. When the history books are written about this down the road, it will reflect poorly in every way possible how this was handled.
We can also include the anti-vaxxers who could have also helped mitigate the omicron surge of late 2021. Anyway you cut it, the American response as supposed leaders of the free world was embarrassing and a stain on our nation. On the plus side, both sides of the political spectrum can use this to score points and avoid any introspection and actually learn something, aina?
-
Pretty easily. The American population had an opportunity to avoid this kind of infection rate had they attempted to mitigate the spread upon its arrival on these shores.
Unfortunately, we were ill-prepared to do so because we gutted our pandemic response plan after the 2016 election. On top of that, our fragmented governments across the nation are incapable of working together and sharing information.
You add the selfishness of the random American citizen to be inconvenienced and it’s not a surprise our handling of the pandemic was an abject failure in every regard. When the history books are written about this down the road, it will reflect poorly in every way possible how this was handled.
We can also include the anti-vaxxers who could have also helped mitigate the omicron surge of late 2021. Anyway you cut it, the American response as supposed leaders of the free world was embarrassing and a stain on our nation. On the plus side, both sides of the political spectrum can use this to score points and avoid any introspection and actually learn something, aina?
Have you learned anything? All I hear from you ever are tired talking points from the media and then blaming the other “side” yourself.
-
Nope never implied that, nor did the article.
Oh.
Your post mentioned a lot of pandemic measures present only at school.
Excuse me for being confused on the implications of mentioning those alongside the article
-
Oh.
Your post mentioned a lot of pandemic measures present only at school.
Excuse me for being confused on the implications of mentioning those alongside the article
I literally said virtual learning as one of my pandemic measures and then other mandates/measures that were widely used in and out of school settings. But the biggest black mark on our response IMO was forced school closures, cancelled extra curricular seasons, etc that led to the mental health emergency we are now facing.
-
Have you learned anything? All I hear from you ever are tired talking points from the media and then blaming the other “side” yourself.
I’ve learned you’re an idiot
-
Nm
-
Nm
Fluffy please tell me how I misinterpreted the article and “made up data”. Unless you’re just throwing around accusations blindly which would surprise me and be very uncharacteristic of you.
-
Fluffy please tell me how I misinterpreted the article and “made up data”. Unless you’re just throwing around accusations blindly which would surprise me and be very uncharacteristic of you.
Read the article you posted then report back.
-
Trolls like trolling...and they like when people get taken in by their disingenuous trolling.
-
Trolls like trolling...and they like when people get taken in by their disingenuous trolling.
Yeah I get it. Will stop.
-
Read the article you posted then report back.
The researchers examined blood samples from more than 200,000 Americans and looked for virus-fighting antibodies made from infections, not vaccines. They found that signs of past infection rose dramatically between December and February, when the more contagious omicron variant surged through the U.S.
For Americans of all ages, about 34% had signs of prior infection in December. Just two months later, 58% did.
“I did expect it to increase. I did not expect it to increase quite this much,” said Dr. Kristie Clarke, co-leader of a CDC team that tracks the extent of coronavirus infections.
In the CDC report, the most striking increase was in children. The percentage of those 17 and under with antibodies rose from about 45% in December to about 75% in February.
…..the above was taken directly from the article.
-
The researchers examined blood samples from more than 200,000 Americans and looked for virus-fighting antibodies made from infections, not vaccines. They found that signs of past infection rose dramatically between December and February, when the more contagious omicron variant surged through the U.S.
For Americans of all ages, about 34% had signs of prior infection in December. Just two months later, 58% did.
“I did expect it to increase. I did not expect it to increase quite this much,” said Dr. Kristie Clarke, co-leader of a CDC team that tracks the extent of coronavirus infections.
In the CDC report, the most striking increase was in children. The percentage of those 17 and under with antibodies rose from about 45% in December to about 75% in February.
…..the above was taken directly from the article.
Ok. You’re almost there. Now take that next step.
-
Ok. You’re almost there. Now take that next step.
Ahhhhh….eat Arbys?
-
All I hear from you ever are tired talking points from the media and then blaming the other “side” yourself.
the mental health emergency we are now facing.
🧐
-
🧐
Are you suggesting the current mental health challenges are a “talking point” of one side?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/07/science/pandemic-adolescents-depression-anxiety.html
-
Are you suggesting the current mental health challenges are a “talking point” of one side?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/07/science/pandemic-adolescents-depression-anxiety.html
Those with mental health problems should pull themselves up by their own boot straps
-
Those with mental health problems should pull themselves up by their own boot straps
Failed sarcasm
Not much wit
Grade A doosh
-
Shocker.
https://econ.trib.al/iJsrChn
-
Shocker.
https://econ.trib.al/iJsrChn
Seems like teachers are far more valuable than those on the Right like to think. Maybe they should be more respected and have massively higher salaries.
-
Seems like teachers are far more valuable than those on the Right like to think. Maybe they should be more respected and have massively higher salaries.
Define "massively higher"
-
Seems like teachers are far more valuable than those on the Right like to think. Maybe they should be more respected and have massively higher salaries.
The ones who wanted to teach in person and not hide behind the Union; sure, pay them.
-
Teacher shortage is here. As predicted.
-
Not just cause of Covid, but a growing problem accelerated by Covid.
-
Agreed. A problem decades in the making.
-
Great opportunity for aspiring young teachers who actually want to teach, aina?
#freerocket2022v2
#freeziggy2022
-
Great opportunity for aspiring young teachers who actually want to teach, aina?
#freerocket2022v2
#freeziggy2022
Great opportunity for communities and politicians to support teachers, aina?
-
Great opportunity for aspiring young teachers who actually want to teach, aina?
#freerocket2022v2
#freeziggy2022
Yup. Work for just over minimum wage, get blame from all sides.
-
Yup. Work for just over minimum wage, get blame from all sides.
Are many teachers underpaid? Probably.
Is the bolded statement remotely true? Not even close. There is not a single state where the average starting teacher salary is within $10K of minimum wage, much less into your career. Most are not even within $15K.
Its possible to make points without being dramatic and absurdist. Salaries being too low to attract proper talent against other careers or justify the headaches and blame/drama is the real salary issue. Not that teachers are living on food stamps and subsidized housing.
-
Oklahoma, average starting salary is $38k. For Head Start, as low as $21k. So, I confess to engaging in hyperbole. But not by as much as I wish.
-
Its possible to make points without being dramatic and absurdist.
lol
-
Are many teachers underpaid? Probably.
Is the bolded statement remotely true? Not even close. There is not a single state where the average starting teacher salary is within $10K of minimum wage, much less into your career. Most are not even within $15K.
Its possible to make points without being dramatic and absurdist. Salaries being too low to attract proper talent against other careers or justify the headaches and blame/drama is the real salary issue. Not that teachers are living on food stamps and subsidized housing.
FWIW, there are a growing number of school districts - mostly in high-priced real estate markets or places where housing is scarce - that do, in fact, offer subsidized housing for teachers.
https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/affordable-housing-teachers-its-table-now
-
There's a school district in Door County that put out an email blast to families asking if anyone had spare bedrooms for (new) teachers who couldn't find housing in the area.
-
FWIW, there are a growing number of school districts - mostly in high-priced real estate markets or places where housing is scarce - that do, in fact, offer subsidized housing for teachers.
https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/affordable-housing-teachers-its-table-now
Interesting but seemingly very niche examples. Silicon Valley and Aspen aren't exactly representative. I think solutions in places like that, or somewhere like Door County or other high priced vacation destinations, need to be creative, and should be applauded, but aren't emblematic of a national issue to counter my original point.
-
This story from 4 years ago has always stuck with me:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/01/29/what-industry-has-seen-pay-fall-below-average-most-states-public-schools/?noredirect=on
Roughly, 30 years ago, in half the states, teacher salaries were 10-20% higher than the average salary in the state. By 2018, that dropped to 1 state.
Should be no surprise that there's teacher shortages across the country.
The article calls out Wisconsin, where teachers used to be paid 1.2x the average job. Now it's .9x. That's .. quite pathetic, and shows what happens when the state successfully kneecaps unions for public workers.
-
This story from 4 years ago has always stuck with me:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/01/29/what-industry-has-seen-pay-fall-below-average-most-states-public-schools/?noredirect=on
Roughly, 30 years ago, in half the states, teacher salaries were 10-20% higher than the average salary in the state. By 2018, that dropped to 1 state.
Should be no surprise that there's teacher shortages across the country.
The article calls out Wisconsin, where teachers used to be paid 1.2x the average job. Now it's .9x. That's .. quite pathetic, and shows what happens when the state successfully kneecaps unions for public workers.
We as a society has a great understanding of the cost of things, but not a great understanding of the value of things. It's the equivalent of building a house with cheap materials and wondering why the roof leaks five years later.
Wisconsin's devaluing of a historically great public school system has been a tragedy.
-
The profession has been attacked relentlessly since that POS Newt, if not before. The reason is pretty simple, all you have to do is ask who benefits from an uneducated populace.
-
The profession has been attacked relentlessly since that POS Newt, if not before. The reason is pretty simple, all you have to do is ask who benefits from an uneducated populace.
What would you expect for a group that's trying to groom the kids?
But, groomers or not, we should still give them guns
-
We can always cut the amount of administrators. For some reason, their numbers have had an exponential increase in the past couple of decades… while the number of teacher have only had a steady linear increase. You want to talk about getting paid the big bucks in our educational system. look no further than these administrators/bureaucrats. Cut their numbers and send this money the teachers way.
-
We can always cut the amount of administrators. For some reason, their numbers have had an exponential increase in the past couple of decades… while the number of teacher have only had a steady linear increase. You want to talk about getting paid the big bucks in our educational system. look no further than these administrators/bureaucrats. Cut their numbers and send this money the teachers way.
Not the worst idea. Similar applies to hospital administration vs staff
-
I find it reasonable to consider…
1) teaching isn’t a full year job for many. Can they not work another job during parts of the year? If so, is their teaching salary the right metric, or should it be adjusted?
2) There are still some highly favorable retirement provisions that some teachers benefit from. Doesn’t show up in the base salary, but is real
3) Tell me why public school teachers have on average a meaningfully higher base salary than private… and why don’t people break these down more often when talking about “teacher salaries”?
-
I find it reasonable to consider…
1) teaching isn’t a full year job for many. Can they not work another job during parts of the year? If so, is their teaching salary the right metric, or should it be adjusted?
2) There are still some highly favorable retirement provisions that some teachers benefit from. Doesn’t show up in the base salary, but is real
3) Tell me why public school teachers have on average a meaningfully higher base salary than private… and why don’t people break these down more often when talking about “teacher salaries”?
1. Not sure that is relevant at all. Even if they do have second sources of income, that doesn't mean that they feel that teaching is worth the compensation.
2. I think that is why people stick with teaching why they reach a certain age and/or tenure. But my guess is retirement doesn't really much to anyone under the age of 40...or older. Regardless, do we really want teachers who are continuing simply because of the "golden handcuffs" of a public pension?
3. I have no idea.
-
I find it reasonable to consider…
1) teaching isn’t a full year job for many. Can they not work another job during parts of the year? If so, is their teaching salary the right metric, or should it be adjusted?
2) There are still some highly favorable retirement provisions that some teachers benefit from. Doesn’t show up in the base salary, but is real
3) Tell me why public school teachers have on average a meaningfully higher base salary than private… and why don’t people break these down more often when talking about “teacher salaries”?
1. Mrs. Hilltopper is a 3rd grade teacher. She's at work from 7:15am, quits around 5. She eats lunch at her desk as she works, she has zero down time, zero social time. At home, she works another 2, so 55 hours a week, easy. Removing school breaks, that's 2035 hours packed into 37 weeks.
Incidentally, she has a masters and 16 years experience for a $66,000 salary, so around $32 an hour. And that's about in the top quarter of compensation for the district.
She ain't getting a summer job.
2. As for pensions .. Looking at her pension payout, it's about $16,000 per year after age 65 (right now.) She'll probably work another 7-10 years, so maybe that perks up to $25k a year, but that's an optimistic guess. Hardly an easy street retirement.
3. I'm not sure where you'd get that teachers have a "meaningfully higher base salary than private." Maybe you're comparing them to non-college degree workers? Entry-level teacher salaries are in the low-40s. After 10 years, teachers are in the high 50s. Google tells me the average starting salary for a college grad is $55k.
No doubt, teachers do pay around 10% of health care premiums versus around 30% in the private sector. Family premium, let's say is $25k, that's $5k in premiums teachers aren't paying. Ok, bump the salaries by $5k.
Regardless .. K-12 Teachers .. are underpaid, full stop. And no surprise, the supply of people willing to do the job is decreasing.
-
Teachers taking a lot of time off is relevant because the data point was “the average salary is only $XX”. Well, they’re not working the entire year.
As for the 2,035 hours worked.. there are many of us who are salaried, yet can hardly imagine working that LITTLE in a year. There may be time management issues (I hardly believe every teacher has to work 55 hours a week in order to do their job), but the idea of ‘I don’t get a summer job because I work a lot during the school year’ seems like a decision that is fine to make, but lessens the argument of ‘I need more money’.
As for public vs. private – I probably didn’t type that clearly. I’m talking about teachers only – public school teachers on average make meaningfully more than private school teachers. Why? I think there are a few things at play… but the red tape/over-bearing requirements of some public school systems are probably a reason. Unions won’t love it, but especially now with the need for educators, why not open things up a bit to highly smart people with alternative training to help public school kids?
-
Teachers taking a lot of time off is relevant because the data point was “the average salary is only $XX”. Well, they’re not working the entire year.
But they have to work more than 40 hours a week during the times that they are working. They also are only allowed 3-5 PTO days during the time that they are working so it balances out.
As for the 2,035 hours worked.. there are many of us who are salaried, yet can hardly imagine working that LITTLE in a year.
As you pointed out that's in a year, not 9 months. Also it is your choice if you want to work more than you are paid for. For teachers, the expectation is that they work for more than they are paid for. You also make significantly more than a teacher does.
There may be time management issues (I hardly believe every teacher has to work 55 hours a week in order to do their job),
Have you done the math?
School day is what? 7 hours? As already discussed, teachers are expected to work through lunch and don't get breaks the way most salaried positions do so that's 7 hours x 5 school days = 35 hours a week.
Let's conservatively estimate that a teacher needs 30 minutes in the morning to prep and stays 30 minutes after final bell to wrap things up for the day so that's 1 hour x 5 school days = 5 + 35 = 40 hours.
Now let's conservatively estimate that a teacher needs an hour and a half a night to lesson plan/grade (most teachers I know take at least 2 hours) so that 1.5 hours x 5 school days = 7.5+40 = 47.5 hours
So you'd only need an additional 7.5 hours of tutoring, after school programs, supervising extra curriculars, managing pick up or drop off, meeting with parents, and other duties as assigned to get to 55 hours a week. And that's with conservative estimates on time needed for prep, lesson planning, and grading. I think it's fair to estimate that most teachers are somewhere in the 45-60 hours a week range.
why not open things up a bit to highly smart people with alternative training to help public school kids?
What highly smart people with alternative training are banging down the door to be a teacher right now?
-
Teachers taking a lot of time off is relevant because the data point was “the average salary is only $XX”. Well, they’re not working the entire year.
As for the 2,035 hours worked.. there are many of us who are salaried, yet can hardly imagine working that LITTLE in a year. There may be time management issues (I hardly believe every teacher has to work 55 hours a week in order to do their job), but the idea of ‘I don’t get a summer job because I work a lot during the school year’ seems like a decision that is fine to make, but lessens the argument of ‘I need more money’.
The argument isn't "I need more money." The argument is "I am paid too little for what I do."
And this is what the marketplace is saying right? People either aren't entering the profession, or they are exiting the profession prior to retirement, because they feel underpaid. Either they can make more doing something else OR they can make something similar doing something easier. (I know former teachers that fit both categories BTW.)
So I am not saying "let's pay teachers more" because it is the right thing to do. I am saying we need to pay them more to attract and retain qualified people in the profession. That's exactly what my microeconomics class taught me would happen when there is a lack of supply. It is also exactly what private industry would do if there was a shortage of accountants, etc.
-
JB, you already spend a lot of time coaching. Quit your job and start teaching, too. You can still have your summers for the AAU circuit. Private schools and charter schools are options, too. I am sure you would be welcomed.
-
As you pointed out that's in a year, not 9 months. Also it is your choice if you want to work more than you are paid for. For teachers, the expectation is that they work for more than they are paid for. You also make significantly more than a teacher does.
I won't argue with the majority of your fair points, but thats an incredibly naive view of the private sector. Thinking that working more than 40 hours a week is solely of your own volition is not remotely true.
I'm not arguing that teachers aren't underpaid, but positioning them as the only ones who work more than they are "paid for" is off base. That can be said about many salaried workers. And thats not necessarily some evil capitalistic conspiracy, but rather sometimes the nature of work and business.
Though you can argue doing so in business or other industries is a means to an end and leads to potential expansion of role and compensation not usually found in teaching, but thats a different argument.
-
I did some math, but it didn’t add up.
37 weeks (non-summer, I presume – but maybe this is what I’m not tracking correctly) x 55 weeks = 2,035 hours were cited.
Again, I don’t think 2,035 hours is a ridiculous amount of hours to work in a year.. but, I struggle with the calculation provided.
Does this 37 weeks include winter break? Spring break? Thanksgiving and other holidays? Not sure I’d calculate out to the 2,035 hours if there are a bunch of days off. Back off just 3 weeks and you’re at 1,870 at 55 hours / week.
Of course, outside of education, there are many jobs in which you are fully expected to work significantly more ‘than you are paid for’. Many would consider some of these hours to be ‘extreme’, but it’s part of certain jobs… anything under 2,500/year would be seen as a significant negative, and working on weekends simply part of the norm / expectation. Long hours are certainly not something unique to teaching (if that’s even true for the average teacher).
I guess more than anything the idea of saying, “the average teacher only makes $xx,xxx a year” is short-sighted and not a good comp. Lots of variables and angles to consider.
“the average teacher makes $xx,xxx a year” = “person A averaged 21 points per game, but person B averaged 16”
Nonetheless, would be interested in thoughts on why public school teachers make more, on average, than their private school teacher counterparts.
-
........x 55 weeks.......
Making 'em work 3 extra weeks in the same time frame. Got to get every drop out them.
-
........x 55 weeks.......
Making 'em work 3 extra weeks in the same time frame. Got to get every drop out them.
Hours, sorry
I’ve been working so many hours (but only bc I want to & not as much as teachers), I messed up.
-
I won't argue with the majority of your fair points, but thats an incredibly naive view of the private sector. Thinking that working more than 40 hours a week is solely of your own volition is not remotely true.
I'm not arguing that teachers aren't underpaid, but positioning them as the only ones who work more than they are "paid for" is off base. That can be said about many salaried workers. And thats not necessarily some evil capitalistic conspiracy, but rather sometimes the nature of work and business.
Though you can argue doing so in business or other industries is a means to an end and leads to potential expansion of role and compensation not usually found in teaching, but thats a different argument.
I'm sure there are others similar to teaching. But with teaching, they are literally required to work outside of normal work hours every day or be fired. That is a universal industry standard. I'm sure there are some companies that have similar expectations but those are just individual companies exploiting their employees, not a universal practice. I'd also bring up Jay Bee's point and question if they actually need to work long hours or if they are having time management issues and a more efficient employee could get the same work done in 40 hours.
I regularly work more than 40 hours a week. I used to regularly put in 60-80 hours a week but realized that was unhealthy and cut back. I only get paid for 40. It is my decision to work beyond that 40 hours a week because I want to be exceptional. That's not the same thing as being told that I have 40+ hours of work scheduled AND I have to take 5-20 hours a week home with me.
-
Hours, sorry
I’ve been working so many hours (but only bc I want to & not as much as teachers), I messed up.
No one has said that you or anyone else doesn't work as much as teachers. You are the one who keeps implying that teachers work less than everyone else.
If you only worked 40 hours a week would you be fired?
-
No one has said that you or anyone else doesn't work as much as teachers. You are the one who keeps implying that teachers work less than everyone else.
If you only worked 40 hours a week would you be fired?
I thought you implying that teachers are incredibly unique in needing to work a lot during their part-year gig.
There are absolutely jobs in which working only 40 hours a week would not be acceptable.
Jobs where you must report detailed hours & billable hours are tracked and analyzed regularly and in great detail.
My point is teachers - who may work a lot during certain parts of the year - are not alone in doing so.
-
I'm sure there are others similar to teaching. But with teaching, they are literally required to work outside of normal work hours every day or be fired. That is a universal industry standard. I'm sure there are some companies that have similar expectations but those are just individual companies exploiting their employees, not a universal practice. I'd also bring up Jay Bee's point and question if they actually need to work long hours or if they are having time management issues and a more efficient employee could get the same work done in 40 hours.
Almost every job in the business world -- particularly management - requires more than 40 hours per week to meet expectations. You get compensated for that...it's not exploitation, but it is the way it is.
Do teachers get compensated for it? Fair debate. But your premise isn't going to resonate with a lot of people that likely post on the board.
-
I thought you implying that teachers are incredibly unique in needing to work a lot during their part-year gig.
There are absolutely jobs in which working only 40 hours a week would not be acceptable.
Jobs where you must report detailed hours & billable hours are tracked and analyzed regularly and in great detail.
I'll take that as a no
My point is teachers - who may work a lot during certain parts of the year - are not alone in doing so.
No one ever said they were. No one is questioning how much other occupations work.
Almost every job in the business world -- particularly management - requires more than 40 hours per week to meet expectations. You get compensated for that...it's not exploitation, but it is the way it is.
Do teachers get compensated for it? Fair debate. But your premise isn't going to resonate with a lot of people that likely post on the board.
If that's true, then it's not exploitation. But that's not actually the case in many jobs. I also don't believe that most jobs require than more 40 hours of work. I think that's a lie that many have been conditioned to believe.
You say that's the way it is. I don't think that will be true for much longer.
-
I'll take that as a no
Don’t take it as a no. I would not have my job if I only worked 40 hours a week.
Things have changed a bit over the years, but certainly the idea of working 40 hours a week in (now) Big Four public accounting would still get you laughed out of the firm, real quick.
A 40 hour work week isn’t realistic for many people. Neither is taking nights & weekends off. And it’s certainly not a significant differentiator for teachers.
-
Don’t take it as a no. I would not have my job if I only worked 40 hours a week.
Things have changed a bit over the years, but certainly the idea of working 40 hours a week in (now) Big Four public accounting would still get you laughed out of the firm, real quick.
A 40 hour work week isn’t realistic for many people. Neither is taking nights & weekends off. And it’s certainly not a significant differentiator for teachers.
See, that’s the problem. Work expectations rise for the worker bee but the salary rise isn’t matching the extra work across the board in all fields.
Of course, most workers don’t have to deal with their jobs being politicized
-
Don’t take it as a no. I would not have my job if I only worked 40 hours a week.
So you would be fired?
Or you wouldn't have earned this promotion if you didn't work over 40 hours a week?
-
Working class people should be building each other up and cheering each other on to get more money. Not comparing their peanut pile and poor work-life balance.
I hope you all get underworked and overpaid sooner rather than later.
-
So you would be fired?
Or you wouldn't have earned this promotion if you didn't work over 40 hours a week?
If you work for a Big Four firm and expect to work 40 hours a week, you won't last very long.
-
Don’t take it as a no. I would not have my job if I only worked 40 hours a week.
Things have changed a bit over the years, but certainly the idea of working 40 hours a week in (now) Big Four public accounting would still get you laughed out of the firm, real quick.
A 40 hour work week isn’t realistic for many people. Neither is taking nights & weekends off. And it’s certainly not a significant differentiator for teachers.
I agree with you. But if there are teacher shortages, which have been coming for awhile, that should tell you something about the compensation provided for what is asked of them.
-
I agree with you. But if there are teacher shortages, which have been coming for awhile, that should tell you something about the compensation provided for what is asked of them.
There's a teacher shortage because nobody wants to work anymore
-
I did some math, but it didn’t add up.
37 weeks (non-summer, I presume – but maybe this is what I’m not tracking correctly) x 55 weeks = 2,035 hours were cited.
Again, I don’t think 2,035 hours is a ridiculous amount of hours to work in a year.. but, I struggle with the calculation provided.
Does this 37 weeks include winter break? Spring break? Thanksgiving and other holidays? Not sure I’d calculate out to the 2,035 hours if there are a bunch of days off. Back off just 3 weeks and you’re at 1,870 at 55 hours / week.
Of course, outside of education, there are many jobs in which you are fully expected to work significantly more ‘than you are paid for’. Many would consider some of these hours to be ‘extreme’, but it’s part of certain jobs… anything under 2,500/year would be seen as a significant negative, and working on weekends simply part of the norm / expectation. Long hours are certainly not something unique to teaching (if that’s even true for the average teacher).
I guess more than anything the idea of saying, “the average teacher only makes $xx,xxx a year” is short-sighted and not a good comp. Lots of variables and angles to consider.
“the average teacher makes $xx,xxx a year” = “person A averaged 21 points per game, but person B averaged 16”
Nonetheless, would be interested in thoughts on why public school teachers make more, on average, than their private school teacher counterparts.
Most state's schools require 180 days of in class teaching, which amounts to 36 weeks of instructional time. Most schools require teachers to be present/working for an additional 1-4 weeks depending on state/school district.
55 hours a day is pretty common, unless you completely mail it in and don't put in any effort.
So a minimum of 37 weeks for 2035 hours as others have said, and if you are in a district that requires more weeks of training prep, up to 2200 hours (40 weeks).
In most states you make more managing a Panda Express than being a teacher.
-
55 hours a day is pretty common, unless you completely mail it in and don't put in any effort.
Whoa! Lots of people mailing it in I guess. :P
-
Thank you for jumping on the 55 hour day grenade
-
If you work for a Big Four firm and expect to work 40 hours a week, you won't last very long.
Does Jay Bee moonlight for a Big Four firm?
-
Does Jay Bee moonlight for a Big Four firm?
This isn’t about me, but I’ve work with and at consistently since the days of the Big Six. More than a quarter-century. And an avg of 40 hours a week doesn’t fly. Not even close. But, you know that.
-
This isn’t about me, but I’ve work with and at consistently since the days of the Big Six. More than a quarter-century. And an avg of 40 hours a week doesn’t fly. Not even close. But, you know that.
So no then. And that's my point. There's a difference between "I need to work more than 40 hours of week or I won't advance/get a bad review/be looked down/etc" and "I have 40 hours of work scheduled that I can't do more efficiently and an additional 5-20 hours of work a week that I have to take home or I will lose my job". Also, if you don't look the work culture at a company in most industries, you can leave and go to another one with a different culture. This is an industry wide standard. There's also a difference between a job like teaching where it doesn't matter how efficient you are, you are working more than 40 hours, whereas two employees at a company could complete different amounts of work in the same amount of time. That's where the "time management issues" that you mention come in to play.
Teaching isn't the only profession like this. There are also companies that truly will fire their employees if they work only 40 hours of week. No one is saying teachers work harder than other professions, but they shouldn't be belittled either.
-
I mean, if you want the compensation and the career advancement that comes from working with the Big Four, you are going to work well more than 40 hours a week.
If you want to work 40 hours a week, you can go work for Ma and Pa CPA down the street And your compensation will reflect that.
That's exactly the problem with teaching right now. Big Four expectations matched with Ma and Pa compensation.
-
There's a teacher shortage because nobody wants to work anymore
Yeah, sittin' home on one's fat ass collectin' da bag sure has worked out just fine, aina?
-
Yeah, sittin' home on one's fat ass collectin' da bag sure has worked out just fine, aina?
This guy?
https://twitter.com/georgehahn/status/1561919207725465600?s=21&t=lVdDM8AHEpdBE-q7Oh_S7A
-
There's a teacher shortage because nobody wants to work anymore
I'm so tired of hearing this. Labor shortage is a combined result.
The unemployment rate is a historical record low 3.4%. People are already working and the pool is not very deep.
1 million people died from the pandemic and they're not available to work ever again.
A lot of Boomers retired early because why risk COVID when you can afford to retire.
We can work out changes to immigration to fill positions but you know.......
-
Amen.
-
Yeah, sittin' home on one's fat ass collectin' da bag sure has worked out just fine, aina?
jesmu, you hooked a lunker here with that bait.
-
So no then. And that's my point. There's a difference between "I need to work more than 40 hours of week or I won't advance/get a bad review/be looked down/etc" and "I have 40 hours of work scheduled that I can't do more efficiently and an additional 5-20 hours of work a week that I have to take home or I will lose my job".
You’ve got it wrong. Your point is invalid. Again, this isn’t about me or another single example, but I absolutely today must work more than 40 hours a week & work - at times - “odd hours” - I must do it.
Teachers are nothing special in that regard (if true that most of them do this)
-
You’ve got it wrong. Your point is invalid. Again, this isn’t about me or another single example, but I absolutely today must work more than 40 hours a week & work - at times - “odd hours” - I must do it.
Teachers are nothing special in that regard (if true that most of them do this)
Must? No. I don't know about your job specifically but most salaried employees can leave work after 40 hours a week (or however many hours they are compensated for) and not fear being fired provided they are working efficiently and producing quality work. You've just been conditioned to believe a lie that you must work more. An employee may need to work more than 40 hours to get ahead, be exceptional, or even just to breakeven (if they have a "time management issue" as you put it), but not to keep their job. If you must work more than 40 hours a week to produce just enough value to avoid being fired, you either aren't working efficiently/don't have the capacity for the position or your being exploited/undercompensated.
Odd hours sure. Lots of jobs require working outside of business hours, though that's usually on occasion. Few require it on a near daily basis.
-
Must? No. I don't know about your job specifically but most salaried employees can leave work after 40 hours a week (or however many hours they are compensated for) and not fear being fired provided they are working efficiently and producing quality work. You've just been conditioned to believe a lie that you must work more. An employee may need to work more than 40 hours to get ahead, be exceptional, or even just to breakeven (if they have a "time management issue" as you put it), but not to keep their job. If you must work more than 40 hours a week to produce just enough value to avoid being fired, you either aren't working efficiently/don't have the capacity for the position or your being exploited/undercompensated.
I’m trying to figure out if it’s just semantics, but I think you’re just dead wrong here.
When job listings state, “this position will or may require overtime hours” or something similar, do you think it’s just for kicks? They’re saying it’s a job requirement, but it’s cool if you’re not into working any “required” overtime?
I used public accounting as an example because I actually experienced it. The idea that a young professional could simply tell his audit team, ‘hey, I really kicked butt these past 40 hours… I’m heading out. See ya next week!’ and stay employed with that firm is ludicrous.
-
I’m trying to figure out if it’s just semantics, but I think you’re just dead wrong here.
When job listings state, “this position will or may require overtime hours” or something similar, do you think it’s just for kicks? They’re saying it’s a job requirement, but it’s cool if you’re not into working any “required” overtime?
Most salaried positions don't or are compensated for overtime hours. Teachers aren't.
I used public accounting as an example because I actually experienced it. The idea that a young professional could simply tell his audit team, ‘hey, I really kicked butt these past 40 hours… I’m heading out. See ya next week!’ and stay employed with that firm is ludicrous.
I'm sure there are individual examples where that is true but it is not an industry standard like it is with teaching. And if it is true, are you really saying that a firm would prefer an employee who can get twice as much work done in 40 hours than what another employee can do in 50? If so, you should introduce them to some tempo free stats!
And more and more young professionals are starting to do exactly what you describe in your last sentence and they are somehow still staying employed!
Dumb companies care about how many hours you work. Smart companies care about how much you accomplish.
-
You’re providing commentary that doesn’t have to do with what I’m talking about: there are plenty of jobs out there where overtime is expected and required. You will not remain employed in these jobs if you don’t work overtime. You’re not going to get paid more if you work 50 or 70 hours vs. 40 hours, but it’s quite literally part of the job.
There are many jobs (including ones I’ve been around a lot – such as in accounting, finance, investment banking, legal, etc.) that can be transactional or project based with tight timelines. It’s part of the job.
It’s not acceptable for a lawyer to do this: “Oh hi, I really like my firm and we got this great engagement. There are really tight timelines and tons to do, so it’s stressful but I’m excited to work on it. To that end, I am going to be ultra-productive in my 40 hours before I wrap it up for the week, because that’s what my firm and my client needs from me! Toodles!”
I’d fire myself if I only worked 40 hours a week. I understand maintaining a healthy balance, not getting overly burned out, keeping stress/health issues at bay, etc. is all important and something people need to work on – but that’s not what I’m trying to convey here. What I’m telling you is fact is that there are a lot of jobs where overtime is effectively required and a part of the job.
-
And more and more young professionals are starting to do exactly what you describe in your last sentence and they are somehow still staying employed!
Yeah, this was also said a lot in the mid-90s about GenX. And guess what? People decided they actually didn't mind working, liked being promoted and making money, and put in the hours to do so. There aren't many 50 year olds working the same job they did out of college.
And back to your point, teachers can do things other than teach K-12 school students. They are free to exit the industry and try something else. And obviously many have! They have translatable skills!
But that's a reason they should be paid more. They are going to have to do so to make the professional attractive.
Dumb companies care about how many hours you work. Smart companies care about how much you accomplish.
Of course. But there are jobs that are very difficult, if not impossible, to accomplish regularly working forty hours a week.
-
It has been my experience that a vast majority of salaried positions carry the expectation that the employee is going to work in excess of 40 hours per week. I don't claim to be an expert on the rules that make that employee exempt or not-exempt from being entitled to overtime pay, though I think it has something to do with whether the employee has any control or management authority over those hours. Though I think that "control" or "management authority" is a fairly low standard to meet.
-
You’re providing commentary that doesn’t have to do with what I’m talking about: there are plenty of jobs out there where overtime is expected and required. You will not remain employed in these jobs if you don’t work overtime. You’re not going to get paid more if you work 50 or 70 hours vs. 40 hours, but it’s quite literally part of the job.
There are many jobs (including ones I’ve been around a lot – such as in accounting, finance, investment banking, legal, etc.) that can be transactional or project based with tight timelines. It’s part of the job.
It’s not acceptable for a lawyer to do this: “Oh hi, I really like my firm and we got this great engagement. There are really tight timelines and tons to do, so it’s stressful but I’m excited to work on it. To that end, I am going to be ultra-productive in my 40 hours before I wrap it up for the week, because that’s what my firm and my client needs from me! Toodles!”
I’d fire myself if I only worked 40 hours a week. I understand maintaining a healthy balance, not getting overly burned out, keeping stress/health issues at bay, etc. is all important and something people need to work on – but that’s not what I’m trying to convey here. What I’m telling you is fact is that there are a lot of jobs where overtime is effectively required and a part of the job.
What you don't get, or don't acknowledge, is all those other jobs you are talking about are very well compensated.
Teachers are not.
Also, in addition to their normal salaries, if they are deemed to put a lot of extra time in (e.g. billable hours for an attorney), they get bonuses, not uncommonly around the same size as the teachers actual take home salary.
-
It has been my experience that a vast majority of salaried positions carry the expectation that the employee is going to work in excess of 40 hours per week. I don't claim to be an expert on the rules that make that employee exempt or not-exempt from being entitled to overtime pay, though I think it has something to do with whether the employee has any control or management authority over those hours. Though I think that "control" or "management authority" is a fairly low standard to meet.
There is also a compensation threshold to be salaried. I believe it's more than $17.10 an hour.
-
How much of the teacher shortage is due to rising college costs? At least to me, it seems like the salaries of teachers are not in line with the rising costs of college. Then you add in some of the additional things teachers have been dealing with over the years.
Unless you have a deep passion for teaching, it feels like a difficult choice to make to go to school to be a teacher. Hence, Sultan’s comments about needing to raise pay to incentivize. It feels like we can theorize what teachers should be paid and the rationale, but the market is giving us empirical evidence it is not enough.
-
What you don't get, or don't acknowledge, is all those other jobs you are talking about are very well compensated.
Teachers are not.
This is all subjective. In the late 90s you had first year accountants working 2,500-2,700 hours for $35k flat, no bonus. Was that very well compensated?
Regardless, my point has been working around 2,000 hours a year isn’t some radical, crazy thing unique to any teachers that do so. Overtime is real and oftentimes required.
-
This is all subjective. In the late 90s you had first year accountants working 2,500-2,700 hours for $35k flat, no bonus. Was that very well compensated?
Were there accountant shortages at the time? Not that I recall. Therefore I would say they were well compensated.
-
This is all subjective. In the late 90s you had first year accountants working 2,500-2,700 hours for $35k flat, no bonus. Was that very well compensated?
Considering that $35,000 in 1999 is equal to $62,246.62 today. Yes, they were well compensated.
Regardless, my point has been working around 2,000 hours a year isn’t some radical, crazy thing unique to any teachers that do so. Overtime is real and oftentimes required.
And this is where you are confused. No one has implied that it is. No one is saying teachers work harder than most other jobs. YOU were the one who implied that teachers work less than most other jobs. I and others aren't trying to say that teachers work more than most, we are saying that their work is comparable to most despite getting summers off. And despite their workload being comparable, they are paid significantly less than most other salaried positions.
-
Yeah, this was also said a lot in the mid-90s about GenX. And guess what? People decided they actually didn't mind working, liked being promoted and making money, and put in the hours to do so. There aren't many 50 year olds working the same job they did out of college.
Yep. And there were also GenXers who found companies that valued their time and got promoted despite limiting how much extra they work. There were also those that got promoted just based on longevity. And there were also those who hopped from company to company rising the ladder because they were a great interview. Same will be true of GenZers, though I think work culture is shifting enough that a higher percentage will stick to lower work hours.
-
Considering that $35,000 in 1999 is equal to $62,246.62 today. Yes, they were well compensated.
https://dcjobsource.com/teachersalaries.html
If $62k in todays dollars is considered fair compensation then you’ll be happy to know that is almost exactly the avg salary for a k-12 teacher as of 2020.
More updated 2022 figures with link below
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/teacher-pay-by-state
-
If $62k in todays dollars is considered fair compensation then you’ll be happy to know that is almost exactly the avg salary for a k-12 teacher as of 2020.
More updated 2022 figures with link below
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/teacher-pay-by-state
Nice try. By that is the average of ALL teachers, whether they are fresh out of school or have been teaching for 70 years and have graduate degrees. Not first years which was the example given.
From your article:
It's crucial to note that these are overall average teacher salaries. Starting teacher salaries are much lower and are often far below the livable wage in many states. The District of Columbia and New Jersey are the only states with starting teacher salaries over $50,000, with $55,209 and $51,443. Unfortunately, the livable wage is $68,000 in D.C. and $56,000 in New Jersey.
Despite that, that number is still about $4000 a year less than $62,246.62
-
Nice try. By that is the average of ALL teachers, whether they are fresh out of school or have been teaching for 70 years and have graduate degrees. Not first years which was the example given.
From your article:
Despite that, that number is still about $4000 a year less than $62,246.62
That's fair.
Couldn't find anything definitive showing how long it takes for a first year teacher to get from the avg 1st year salary of $40K(ish) up to that national avg of $60+ but I for one would support a bump in teacher pay across the board!
-
Nice try. By that is the average of ALL teachers, whether they are fresh out of school or have been teaching for 70 years and have graduate degrees. Not first years which was the example given.
From your article:
Despite that, that number is still about $4000 a year less than $62,246.62
My issues with "livable wage" when examining starting salaries is that its misleading. I highly doubt the majority of green, just starting teachers are the sole breadwinner for a family of 4. It just muddies the argument with misleading data points. Unless they really wish to attract mid career professionals switching professions to teaching.
What you don't get, or don't acknowledge, is all those other jobs you are talking about are very well compensated.
Teachers are not.
Also, in addition to their normal salaries, if they are deemed to put a lot of extra time in (e.g. billable hours for an attorney), they get bonuses, not uncommonly around the same size as the teachers actual take home salary.
This is hilariously naive. There are plenty of accountants, financial analysts, legal staff, etc... that aren't receiving fat bonuses. People see "finance" and assume they are all Gordon Gekko. You really think most people in finance are bringing down $70K bonuses every year?
My uncle was an immigration attorney for 30+ years. I don't think he ever broke $85K, and that was in Boston, not the Midwest. He absolutely wouldn't have had a job if he punched out at 5 every day. There are plenty of people in the legal profession that aren't highly compensated white shoe Harvey Spectors.
Again, this is not to say "f teachers, they have enough". There is certainly changes that need to be made in how the profession is approached, recruited for, and compensated. But the discussion can't be buoyed by false assumptions and comparisons.
-
Getting rid of teachers unions would be a good start for teachers to be paid fairly for the work they do. And treated like professionals by the administration and board, not unskilled labor.
-
Getting rid of teachers unions would be a good start for teachers to be paid fairly for the work they do. And treated like professionals by the administration and board, not unskilled labor.
Would work for cops, too
-
Getting rid of teachers unions would be a good start for teachers to be paid fairly for the work they do. And treated like professionals by the administration and board, not unskilled labor.
What are you on?
Act 10 has been devastating for school districts and teachers across Wisconsin.
-
As always The Onion is right on queue.
Teachers Reveal Why They Are Quitting Their Jobs
https://www.theonion.com/teachers-reveal-why-they-are-quitting-their-jobs-1849443196/slides/1
-
Getting rid of teachers unions would be a good start for teachers to be paid fairly for the work they do. And treated like professionals by the administration and board, not unskilled labor.
Another great joke celebrating Ziggys return.
-
What are you on?
Act 10 has been devastating for school districts and teachers across Wisconsin.
From what I remember didn’t Act10 essentially gave teachers the option to opt out of union membership if they didn’t find it beneficial and they wanted to save on paying union dues?
I know teachers were also forced to chip in more for their benefits package but if my memory holds true the % they had to chip in was still well below private sector employee %s.
Admittedly could be missing other details as to how it was so terrible for teachers so a refresher would be beneficial.
-
From what I remember didn’t Act10 essentially gave teachers the option to opt out of union membership if they didn’t find it beneficial and they wanted to save on paying union dues?
I know teachers were also forced to chip in more for their benefits package but if my memory holds true the % they had to chip in was still well below private sector employee %s.
Admittedly could be missing other details as to how it was so terrible for teachers so a refresher would be beneficial.
Lol
-
Here's a study:What I get out of it, conclusion is that higher school teachers are underpaid relative to other work, while grade school teachers often overreport the number of hours they work
https://watermark.silverchair.com/edfp_a_00133.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAp8wggKbBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKMMIICiAIBADCCAoEGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQM7JPuc85Yr-HOizRoAgEQgIICUson-ZBGZw6cftKynXdcZ18WHKPKALtwXtsrS4qyeTAhhx0ZRtJSO6KtmW3iQs-ysEm8zWHVHAOMmqaYWF7h2at1i-iS1sREGvWzyS89r8i6g0RABFVLP5eOCglO1uE10X6i3uPXS3zUa9_Ewmmn-Vp2xmQZyHFNz5zEVhd4T93pHwGdQ1LZqPzhLs_4h7fk5Xg1Sg7mDm9imfA40l_TkJahLyviSne9qJp6toRGt2q2VBKyCagVPxexgRrf7mUlMG82ZVB3bw81p8pkAmd65mwbIbr-MlY-sza9OB3TNxCN_QqrQKxoN2CJlE8YNR3jZJ7Vfeobm4Lk5bT_GdfVN2uNQggN7elUX02JDHfinFn6Oq78ZVShYU3AJm6_eKp3RUELG5cLOGs-iuUm9fqc1g1vddb-RjHsWOIluB1aQq0v_RY6_GLtQ1VhByv2mAggWCPY1j3AqbVXDXqtQIv4nA8MB1bEqjan_HfXVhz_R3nVPeUt3S0QQbs8nc-op0owGP3vhdxDGo1NLD6viZmy9dSAvVRD50UuYXrrjYWr5XYuQ_OYSVuJpAmiH5zmAWeo7ytvie9dVuWbUj1ii_VarTANm8CSPy8NQ9SEL9qLXJq6iNinRcSNZeebdd7V0fSs1h2YZJpyJslOEWjbsvAWuuMnBFEL9f2nqv28KkS9wMFND-7IB9_PE9qGfd0LSVwVeGHpWXoV_Muwx31DQUz0RNIdkhj8bRw3-SciQ-jdNsnPslIKAwpacnydG7l208Cq_R7dnZgrQaUuHCBLaSPmplnOTg (https://watermark.silverchair.com/edfp_a_00133.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAp8wggKbBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKMMIICiAIBADCCAoEGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQM7JPuc85Yr-HOizRoAgEQgIICUson-ZBGZw6cftKynXdcZ18WHKPKALtwXtsrS4qyeTAhhx0ZRtJSO6KtmW3iQs-ysEm8zWHVHAOMmqaYWF7h2at1i-iS1sREGvWzyS89r8i6g0RABFVLP5eOCglO1uE10X6i3uPXS3zUa9_Ewmmn-Vp2xmQZyHFNz5zEVhd4T93pHwGdQ1LZqPzhLs_4h7fk5Xg1Sg7mDm9imfA40l_TkJahLyviSne9qJp6toRGt2q2VBKyCagVPxexgRrf7mUlMG82ZVB3bw81p8pkAmd65mwbIbr-MlY-sza9OB3TNxCN_QqrQKxoN2CJlE8YNR3jZJ7Vfeobm4Lk5bT_GdfVN2uNQggN7elUX02JDHfinFn6Oq78ZVShYU3AJm6_eKp3RUELG5cLOGs-iuUm9fqc1g1vddb-RjHsWOIluB1aQq0v_RY6_GLtQ1VhByv2mAggWCPY1j3AqbVXDXqtQIv4nA8MB1bEqjan_HfXVhz_R3nVPeUt3S0QQbs8nc-op0owGP3vhdxDGo1NLD6viZmy9dSAvVRD50UuYXrrjYWr5XYuQ_OYSVuJpAmiH5zmAWeo7ytvie9dVuWbUj1ii_VarTANm8CSPy8NQ9SEL9qLXJq6iNinRcSNZeebdd7V0fSs1h2YZJpyJslOEWjbsvAWuuMnBFEL9f2nqv28KkS9wMFND-7IB9_PE9qGfd0LSVwVeGHpWXoV_Muwx31DQUz0RNIdkhj8bRw3-SciQ-jdNsnPslIKAwpacnydG7l208Cq_R7dnZgrQaUuHCBLaSPmplnOTg)
-
Here's a study:What I get out of it, conclusion is that higher school teachers are underpaid relative to other work, while grade school teachers often overreport the number of hours they work
https://watermark.silverchair.com/edfp_a_00133.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAp8wggKbBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKMMIICiAIBADCCAoEGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQM7JPuc85Yr-HOizRoAgEQgIICUson-ZBGZw6cftKynXdcZ18WHKPKALtwXtsrS4qyeTAhhx0ZRtJSO6KtmW3iQs-ysEm8zWHVHAOMmqaYWF7h2at1i-iS1sREGvWzyS89r8i6g0RABFVLP5eOCglO1uE10X6i3uPXS3zUa9_Ewmmn-Vp2xmQZyHFNz5zEVhd4T93pHwGdQ1LZqPzhLs_4h7fk5Xg1Sg7mDm9imfA40l_TkJahLyviSne9qJp6toRGt2q2VBKyCagVPxexgRrf7mUlMG82ZVB3bw81p8pkAmd65mwbIbr-MlY-sza9OB3TNxCN_QqrQKxoN2CJlE8YNR3jZJ7Vfeobm4Lk5bT_GdfVN2uNQggN7elUX02JDHfinFn6Oq78ZVShYU3AJm6_eKp3RUELG5cLOGs-iuUm9fqc1g1vddb-RjHsWOIluB1aQq0v_RY6_GLtQ1VhByv2mAggWCPY1j3AqbVXDXqtQIv4nA8MB1bEqjan_HfXVhz_R3nVPeUt3S0QQbs8nc-op0owGP3vhdxDGo1NLD6viZmy9dSAvVRD50UuYXrrjYWr5XYuQ_OYSVuJpAmiH5zmAWeo7ytvie9dVuWbUj1ii_VarTANm8CSPy8NQ9SEL9qLXJq6iNinRcSNZeebdd7V0fSs1h2YZJpyJslOEWjbsvAWuuMnBFEL9f2nqv28KkS9wMFND-7IB9_PE9qGfd0LSVwVeGHpWXoV_Muwx31DQUz0RNIdkhj8bRw3-SciQ-jdNsnPslIKAwpacnydG7l208Cq_R7dnZgrQaUuHCBLaSPmplnOTg (https://watermark.silverchair.com/edfp_a_00133.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAp8wggKbBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKMMIICiAIBADCCAoEGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQM7JPuc85Yr-HOizRoAgEQgIICUson-ZBGZw6cftKynXdcZ18WHKPKALtwXtsrS4qyeTAhhx0ZRtJSO6KtmW3iQs-ysEm8zWHVHAOMmqaYWF7h2at1i-iS1sREGvWzyS89r8i6g0RABFVLP5eOCglO1uE10X6i3uPXS3zUa9_Ewmmn-Vp2xmQZyHFNz5zEVhd4T93pHwGdQ1LZqPzhLs_4h7fk5Xg1Sg7mDm9imfA40l_TkJahLyviSne9qJp6toRGt2q2VBKyCagVPxexgRrf7mUlMG82ZVB3bw81p8pkAmd65mwbIbr-MlY-sza9OB3TNxCN_QqrQKxoN2CJlE8YNR3jZJ7Vfeobm4Lk5bT_GdfVN2uNQggN7elUX02JDHfinFn6Oq78ZVShYU3AJm6_eKp3RUELG5cLOGs-iuUm9fqc1g1vddb-RjHsWOIluB1aQq0v_RY6_GLtQ1VhByv2mAggWCPY1j3AqbVXDXqtQIv4nA8MB1bEqjan_HfXVhz_R3nVPeUt3S0QQbs8nc-op0owGP3vhdxDGo1NLD6viZmy9dSAvVRD50UuYXrrjYWr5XYuQ_OYSVuJpAmiH5zmAWeo7ytvie9dVuWbUj1ii_VarTANm8CSPy8NQ9SEL9qLXJq6iNinRcSNZeebdd7V0fSs1h2YZJpyJslOEWjbsvAWuuMnBFEL9f2nqv28KkS9wMFND-7IB9_PE9qGfd0LSVwVeGHpWXoV_Muwx31DQUz0RNIdkhj8bRw3-SciQ-jdNsnPslIKAwpacnydG7l208Cq_R7dnZgrQaUuHCBLaSPmplnOTg)
That seems sensible based on my interactions with teachers of both stripes. Just anecdotal, of course
-
What are you on?
Act 10 has been devastating for school districts and teachers across Wisconsin.
Brainwashed
-
I hope the protestors enjoyed the pizzas I sent.
-
I hope the protestors enjoyed the pizzas I sent.
Ian's?
I'd rather eat St Louis style than that garbage.
-
I no longer have the receipts. Someplace that was on the square then.
-
Getting rid of teachers unions would be a good start for teachers to be paid fairly for the work they do. And treated like professionals by the administration and board, not unskilled labor.
Why yes, getting rid of the organization that fights for increased teachers' salary will surely lead to increased teachers' salaries.
Insights like this are what make you such a valuable poster.
-
Brainwashed
Well, at least you can admit it. ;D
-
Ian's?
I'd rather eat St Louis style than that garbage.
Almost Yep.
I no longer have the receipts. Someplace that was on the square then.
Yep
-
From what I remember didn’t Act10 essentially gave teachers the option to opt out of union membership if they didn’t find it beneficial and they wanted to save on paying union dues?
I know teachers were also forced to chip in more for their benefits package but if my memory holds true the % they had to chip in was still well below private sector employee %s.
Admittedly could be missing other details as to how it was so terrible for teachers so a refresher would be beneficial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_Act_10
There. Read.
If you don't know what union busting is, I can't help you.
-
Why yes, getting rid of the organization that fights for increased teachers' salary will surely lead to increased teachers' salaries.
Insights like this are what make you such a valuable poster.
Getting rid of the organization? The teachers union in Wisconsin is still alive and well? Did they lose tens of thousands of members who didn’t want to pay the dues, yep. Did Act 10 outlaw unions, nope.
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_Act_10
There. Read.
If you don't know what union busting is, I can't help you.
You didn’t say it was devastating for unions, that I would have agreed with. You said it’s been devastating for teachers and school districts, which is not the same nor true.
-
Why yes, getting rid of the organization that fights for increased teachers' salary will surely lead to increased teachers' salaries.
Insights like this are what make you such a valuable poster.
🐷🐷
-
This is hilariously naive. There are plenty of accountants, financial analysts, legal staff, etc... that aren't receiving fat bonuses. People see "finance" and assume they are all Gordon Gekko. You really think most people in finance are bringing down $70K bonuses every year?
My uncle was an immigration attorney for 30+ years. I don't think he ever broke $85K, and that was in Boston, not the Midwest. He absolutely wouldn't have had a job if he punched out at 5 every day. There are plenty of people in the legal profession that aren't highly compensated white shoe Harvey Spectors.
Again, this is not to say "f teachers, they have enough". There is certainly changes that need to be made in how the profession is approached, recruited for, and compensated. But the discussion can't be buoyed by false assumptions and comparisons.
Frankly, and I hate to say such things, but your response was extremely naive, and misrepresented what I said. I never said anyone was getting $70k bonuses. I said it wasn't "uncommon" for high billable hours attorneys to get bonuses that rival the "take home" pay of many teachers. That take home pay is less than 40k (much less in many states).
For some reference.
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/big-law-always-willing-to-pay-more-as-bonuses-reach-100-000 (https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/big-law-always-willing-to-pay-more-as-bonuses-reach-100-000)
Now for the part where your response was actually quite naive, your uncle was an immigration attorney by choice. He could have been in corporate law, where he would have easily taken home $130-160k, with large annual bonuses, or IT ~$140k, or several other high paying law specialties. Your uncle happened to choose one of the lowest compensated specialties...his choice. Teachers don't have that choice. Their salaries are poor across the board.
-
Unions are all unskilled labor?
-
Unions are all unskilled labor?
Yours sure is.
-
Yours sure is.
🤣
-
Yours sure is.
The value you add cannot be overstated.
-
Frankly, and I hate to say such things, but your response was extremely naive, and misrepresented what I said. I never said anyone was getting $70k bonuses. I said it wasn't "uncommon" for high billable hours attorneys to get bonuses that rival the "take home" pay of many teachers. That take home pay is less than 40k (much less in many states).
You also said, “ What you don't get, or don't acknowledge, is all those other jobs you are talking about are very well compensated.
Teachers are not.
Also, in addition to their normal salaries, if they are deemed to put a lot of extra time in (e.g. billable hours for an attorney), they get bonuses”
That is, you claimed ALL those other jobs are well compensated and that bonuses were given, without exclusions, if they are “deemed to put a lot of extra time”
You are wrong
-
Frankly, and I hate to say such things, but your response was extremely naive, and misrepresented what I said. I never said anyone was getting $70k bonuses. I said it wasn't "uncommon" for high billable hours attorneys to get bonuses that rival the "take home" pay of many teachers. That take home pay is less than 40k (much less in many states).
For some reference.
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/big-law-always-willing-to-pay-more-as-bonuses-reach-100-000 (https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/big-law-always-willing-to-pay-more-as-bonuses-reach-100-000)
Now for the part where your response was actually quite naive, your uncle was an immigration attorney by choice. He could have been in corporate law, where he would have easily taken home $130-160k, with large annual bonuses, or IT ~$140k, or several other high paying law specialties. Your uncle happened to choose one of the lowest compensated specialties...his choice. Teachers don't have that choice. Their salaries are poor across the board.
Using big law salaries to speak to the legal profession as a whole is misrepresentation, as is using hedge fund managers or Goldman I Bankers to speak to finance as a whole.
You think there are enough cushy legal jobs that every law school graduate can just slide into a fat corporate law, big white shoe law, or IT law role? Thats like insinuating every college basketball player can make big bucks professionally after graduating.
I brought up my uncle as an example that there are MANY lawyers who work more than a 9-5 who aren't banking tons of compensation. Yes they chose their specific field, but its also a job that needs to be done. Much like teachers choose their specific field, a job that needs to be done. Nobody is forcing them to teach. So thats a weak argument. If my uncle could have simply chose a different law path, well then a teacher could simply choose a better paying profession. But neither did cause they were passionate about a field that helped people.
You've also suggested in the past, if im not mistaken, that teachers deserve "massively higher salaries". I'm genuinely curious to what salary levels you think are reasonable.
-
JB, your love of numbers, experience with teenagers, and affinity for precision would make you a great high school math teacher. Consider a career change.
-
The value you add cannot be overstated.
🐷🐷
-
JB, your love of numbers, experience with teenagers, and affinity for precision would make you a great high school math teacher. Consider a career change.
Will you teach even your FD retirement hits? You'd have a good 15 or so years to give.
-
I brought up my uncle as an example that there are MANY lawyers who work more than a 9-5 who aren't banking. Yes they chose their specific field, but its also a job that needs to be done. Much like teachers choose their specific field, a job that needs to be done. Nobody is forcing them to teach. So thats a dumb argument. If my uncle could have simply chose a different law path, well then a teacher could simply choose a better paying profession.
Yep. Corporate training is a field full of former K-12 teachers. We also just hired a former elementary school teacher that helps professors design ways to incorporate technology into their curriculum. The idea that teachers have no choice but K-12, and the compensation that it comes with, is wrong.
That being said, teachers should be compensated more.
-
I will probably wait until my son graduates high school before I re-enter the work force. I have missed way too many baseball games and band performances.
I already have some volunteer work lined up. And I can see grabbing a tee ball team and working with a group of kids for a few years. But actually going into a classroom every day has never held any appeal to me.
-
Here a novel thought. Let's raise property taxes and give some teachers raises, of course not based on merit, and get the same piss poor product at the end. There is no inflation, hey?
-
Here a novel thought. Let's raise property taxes and give some teachers raises, of course not based on merit, and get the same piss poor product at the end. There is no inflation, hey?
Well, since many districts are reporting shortages, I think that means you should increase property taxes and pay teachers more. And I am all for paying higher performing teachers more than low performers.
But the idea that the product of the K-12 system is "piss poor" is laughably inaccurate. People have been saying that for 30+ years and the kids seem alright to me. Each generation brings their challenges, but they are hardly insurmountable.
Honestly one of the great injustices is that people have been brainwashed to think that our educational system didn't deserve investment.
-
I am a product of MPS. It was chitty then and significantly worse now. I've been told teachers have been reduced to glorified baby sitters, hey?
-
Yes, because MPS is the only public school system in Wisconsin.
And it doesn't come with a host of other challenges that would be impossible for any public school system to fix.
Cmon...
-
Not to mention they aren’t going to improve by giving them LESS money.
-
Chef’s kisses 😍
-
Yes, because MPS is the only public school system in Wisconsin.
And it doesn't come with a host of other challenges that would be impossible for any public school system to fix.
Cmon...
Do MMSD next.
-
Today ..
https://www.axios.com/2022/08/25/teacher-pay-college-graduates-inflation-report
-
Silly data.
-
Today ..
https://www.axios.com/2022/08/25/teacher-pay-college-graduates-inflation-report
Those unions sure have gotten the public to pay for crazy-high benefits! Part-year job, but huge benefits
-
Those unions sure have gotten the public to pay for crazy-high benefits! Part-year job, but huge benefits
Still underpaid even with that
-
Still underpaid even with that
What should they be paid for this part-year work, and why the big diff between public school & private school comp?
-
What should they be paid for this part-year work, and why the big diff between public school & private school comp?
Because of their importance to our society? Is that enough of a reason?
-
Because of their importance to our society? Is that enough of a reason?
Public school teachers are more important than private school teachers and therefore are rightfully paid more is your stance? Why is that?
Two eight grade teachers. But why the disparity in pay?
-
Public school teachers are more important than private school teachers and therefore are rightfully paid more is your stance? Why is that?
Two eight grade teachers. But why the disparity in pay?
My apologies.
I was replying to the overarching thread of why should teachers be paid more.
I suppose when it comes to private vs public, it's cause the private schools haven't raised enough funds to pay their staff equal to what the public teachers get paid.
-
Public school teachers are more important than private school teachers and therefore are rightfully paid more is your stance? Why is that?
Two eight grade teachers. But why the disparity in pay?
Teachers in private schools should be paid more as well. Probably even more
-
Teachers in private schools should be paid more as well. Probably even more
Ok. But why do private school teachers get paid less than their public school counterparts?
-
Teachers in private schools should be paid more as well. Probably even more
Turnover in private schools are severe so they probably should be paid more. But the main reason is that the working conditions are better. Smaller class sizes. More parental involvement.
-
Ok. But why do private school teachers get paid less than their public school counterparts?
Beats me. Pay them all more
-
Turnover in private schools are severe so they probably should be paid more. But the main reason is that the working conditions are better. Smaller class sizes. More parental involvement.
Ahh. So private is better for the teachers (except if they want to be paid) and the kids. Wonder why that is. Heh
-
Ahh. So private is better for the teachers (except if they want to be paid) and the kids. Wonder why that is. Heh
Or we could just pay all teachers better, private or public. Probably wouldn’t have a shortage then. Alas, we don’t value education in this country and revel in our ignorance
-
Ahh. So private is better for the teachers (except if they want to be paid) and the kids. Wonder why that is. Heh
Probably because they don't have to provide universal service, including kids with troubled backgrounds and/or kids whose family's aren't engaged in the process.
Also many private schools, if not most, don't provide much in the way of special education, which is the source of a great deal of the shortages in public schools.
-
Probably because they don't have to provide universal service, including kids with troubled backgrounds and/or kids whose family's aren't engaged in the process.
Also many private schools, if not most, don't provide much in the way of special education, which is the source of a great deal of the shortages in public schools.
You’re saying special Ed teachers get paid a huge premium? Not sure I follow Re: your explanation as to why private gets paid less than public
-
Pay them all more.
-
Pay them all more.
It’s not complicated
-
It’s not complicated
Doesn’t answer the question
-
You’re saying special Ed teachers get paid a huge premium? Not sure I follow Re: your explanation as to why private gets paid less than public
The special education comment was mostly about why there are more vacancies in public than private education.
-
The special education comment was mostly about why there are more vacancies in public than private education.
That makes sense to me. Still struggling with why there’s a big gap b/w public & private, and why this doesn’t seem to be a talking point
-
That makes sense to me. Still struggling with why there’s a big gap b/w public & private, and why this doesn’t seem to be a talking point
I mean, I did address this in the same post.
-
That makes sense to me. Still struggling with why there’s a big gap b/w public & private, and why this doesn’t seem to be a talking point
What's your take? Why do you think there's a pay gap?
-
My wife turned down a job at the local private (Catholic) school, as the pay was ~15k under public school jobs.
Teachers who take positions like that .. are part missionaries. And that's fine, if they feel they want to help spread their faith to a young generation, passing up compensation.
-
That makes sense to me. Still struggling with why there’s a big gap b/w public & private, and why this doesn’t seem to be a talking point
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/
-
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/
Thanks for that article that is nearly a decade old and doesn’t answer the question!
-
p]
Thanks for that article that is nearly a decade old and doesn’t answer the question!
Gosh, I'm starting to think you might not be engaging in good faith here.
-
"JUST ASKING QUESTIONS, GUYS"
-
My wife turned down a job at the local private (Catholic) school, as the pay was ~15k under public school jobs.
Teachers who take positions like that .. are part missionaries. And that's fine, if they feel they want to help spread their faith to a young generation, passing up compensation.
It highly depends on the state. In TX, most private school teachers get paid more, but the pay range is wider. You might have a teacher making $18k, and another making $165k.
In open enrollment charter schools for gifted and talented students (considered private school, because even though it is open enrollment you have to "qualify" to get in) average salaries are around $88k, and there are bonuses thrown at upper level teachers for every student that takes an AP exam....someting like $300 per student.
In other areas, being at a private school might pay less, but they have complete control over their curriculum, have tiny class sizes (maybe only 10 students), all the students there come from wealthy backgrounds, and the schools will pay for ridiculous trips like to the Vatican, or the Galapagos, all expense paid in the summer for your family in order to "research" for teaching methods/materials the next year.
-
In open enrollment charter schools for gifted and talented students (considered private school, because even though it is open enrollment you have to "qualify" to get in) average salaries are around $88k, and there are bonuses thrown at upper level teachers for every student that takes an AP exam....someting like $300 per student.
I can't speak to other states or areas, but I coached for four years at a charter school for gifted kids here in Charlotte. The head of school makes low 6 figures, the teachers nowhere even close. I was surprised when I learned how poorly the teachers were paid, and yet they don't have very high turnover. They have willingly traded higher salaries to work with determined, diligent, well-behaved kids who have engaged parents.
That's their choice, of course ... but its not as if they passed on much higher salaries, as the Carolinas have notoriously paid their public and private teachers shyte and have busted the unions. Pay actually has improved some the last few years -- the legislature was shamed into lifting teacher pay over what they get in Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, etc. More middle of the pack now. Slow progress.
-
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/25/health/childrens-hospital-beds-delayed-care-long-waits/index.html
Interesting. Pediatric beds more full now compared to at any point over the last two years largely because of RSV and other non-Covid related respiratory outbreaks.
Where’s the call to shut down in person learning?!?!?
-
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/25/health/childrens-hospital-beds-delayed-care-long-waits/index.html
Interesting. Pediatric beds more full now compared to at any point over the last two years largely because of RSV and other non-Covid related respiratory outbreaks.
Where’s the call to shut down in person learning?!?!?
Could it be because COVID was new and we didn't have knowledge on effective treatment protocols? Is RSV new? Do we know how to treat it?
-
Could it be because COVID was new and we didn't have knowledge on effective treatment protocols? Is RSV new? Do we know how to treat it?
Shutting down schools was a treatment option? It was preventative to limit the spread which what it would be for RSV breakouts as well being they’re both respiratory viruses transmitted the same way, preventative measure to “slow the spread”. Give our healthcare workers and hospitals a chance to breath and allow for beds to be available for kids who need emergency procedures, cancer treatments, etc.
-
Shutting down schools was a treatment option? It was preventative to limit the spread which what it would be for RSV breakouts as well being they’re both respiratory viruses transmitted the same way, preventative measure to “slow the spread”. Give our healthcare workers and hospitals a chance to breath and allow for beds to be available for kids who need emergency procedures, cancer treatments, etc.
Idiot or just an pretty boy?
I see you're on a legit crapstain heater today, so the question has been answered.
-
Idiot or just an pretty boy?
I see you're on a legit crapstain heater today, so the question has been answered.
Fantastic response Retire, very on brand.
-
Fantastic response Retire, very on brand.
Keep on being disingenuous. It's always been your best look.
-
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/25/health/childrens-hospital-beds-delayed-care-long-waits/index.html
Interesting. Pediatric beds more full now compared to at any point over the last two years largely because of RSV and other non-Covid related respiratory outbreaks.
Where’s the call to shut down in person learning?!?!?
What's the mortality rate of RSV versus the mortality rate of COVID?
-
Keep on being disingenuous. It's always been your best look.
Pointing out the hypocrisy by so many on this board is not disingenuous. I am not advocating for schools to be shut down cause the current RSV outbreak but nor was I advocating to keep schools closed during Covid, I’ve been consistent.
I’m asking why all those on this board who argued to keep schools closed cause Covid risked filling up hospitals aren’t also advocating for the same preventative measures now when there are other respiratory illnesses that are actually filling up children’s hospitals across the country leading to delayed treatments, surgeries, etc.
-
What's the mortality rate of RSV versus the mortality rate of COVID?
Similar, if looking at young kids very low for both. Since there is no vaccine for RSV I included a link below looking at IFR of Covid pre vaccine rollout to try and get as good of an apples to apples comparison. First link looks at RSV vs Influenza and second link has Covid estimates.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/articlepdf/2789446/hansen_2022_oi_220034_1645202343.63645.pdf
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.11.22280963v1
-
nm
-
Pointing out the hypocrisy by so many on this board is not disingenuous. I am not advocating for schools to be shut down cause the current RSV outbreak but nor was I advocating to keep schools closed during Covid, I’ve been consistent.
I’m asking why all those on this board who argued to keep schools closed cause Covid risked filling up hospitals aren’t also advocating for the same preventative measures now when there are other respiratory illnesses that are actually filling up children’s hospitals across the country leading to delayed treatments, surgeries, etc.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/Ow59c0pwTPruU/200.gif)
-
Similar, if looking at young kids very low for both. Since there is no vaccine for RSV I included a link below looking at IFR of Covid pre vaccine rollout to try and get as good of an apples to apples comparison. First link looks at RSV vs Influenza and second link has Covid estimates.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/articlepdf/2789446/hansen_2022_oi_220034_1645202343.63645.pdf
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.11.22280963v1
The first article looks at the excess mortality rate for all age groups for RSV. The second looks at infection fatality rate in non-elderly people from COVID, they are not comparable. One looks at increased deaths of all people from all causes due to RSV while the second one looks at percentage of non-elderly people infected with COVID who died. In other words, you picked two different stats that sound the same but measure completely different things and measured two different populations of people to come up with a skewed result.
Let me help you, COVID is a lot more deadly regardless of age group than RSV. Over 1 million people have died from COVID in the last year in the US alone. It's estimated that 160,000 people a year die from RSV globally. RSV is deadlier specifically for children aged 5 and under.
-
The first article looks at the excess mortality rate for all age groups for RSV. The second looks at infection fatality rate in non-elderly people from COVID, they are not comparable. One looks at increased deaths of all people from all causes due to RSV while the second one looks at percentage of non-elderly people infected with COVID who died. In other words, you picked two different stats that sound the same but measure completely different things and measured two different populations of people to come up with a skewed result.
Let me help you, COVID is a lot more deadly regardless of age group than RSV. Over 1 million people have died from COVID in the last year in the US alone. It's estimated that 160,000 people a year die from RSV globally. RSV is deadlier specifically for children aged 5 and under.
Chicos never actually reads the content of the links he posts, as we all know.
-
The first article looks at the excess mortality rate for all age groups for RSV. The second looks at infection fatality rate in non-elderly people from COVID, they are not comparable. One looks at increased deaths of all people from all causes due to RSV while the second one looks at percentage of non-elderly people infected with COVID who died. In other words, you picked two different stats that sound the same but measure completely different things and measured two different populations of people to come up with a skewed result.
Let me help you, COVID is a lot more deadly than RSV. Over 1 million people have died from COVID in the last year in the US alone. It's estimated that 160,000 people a year die from RSV globally.
Over 1 million people have died in the last year of Covid in the US alone? CDC has the number at just over 400,000 in last 12 months.
Below link compares influenza, C19, RSV, and mis-c hospitalization rates (where the initial discussion started). Study found mortality was rare for any of the conditions with similar hospitalization rates for kids aged 5-11.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2789353
-
The first article looks at the excess mortality rate for all age groups for RSV. The second looks at infection fatality rate in non-elderly people from COVID, they are not comparable. One looks at increased deaths of all people from all causes due to RSV while the second one looks at percentage of non-elderly people infected with COVID who died. In other words, you picked two different stats that sound the same but measure completely different things and measured two different populations of people to come up with a skewed result.
Let me help you, COVID is a lot more deadly regardless of age group than RSV. Over 1 million people have died from COVID in the last year in the US alone. It's estimated that 160,000 people a year die from RSV globally. RSV is deadlier specifically for children aged 5 and under.
Also there's been less then 1,500 total deaths in almost 3 years from Covid for the 18 and under crowd per CDC again.
-
Over 1 million people have died in the last year of Covid in the US alone? CDC has the number at just over 400,000 in last 12 months.
Below link compares influenza, C19, RSV, and mis-c hospitalization rates (where the initial discussion started). Study found mortality was rare for any of the conditions with similar hospitalization rates for kids aged 5-11.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2789353
Also there's been less then 1,500 total deaths in almost 3 years from Covid for the 18 and under crowd per CDC again.
Ah you did get me. I misread a stat, it's over a million since January 2020 in the US alone. In that same time frame, an estimated 453,330 people have died globally from RSV. Still refutes your point.
You keep giving specific age ranges. I didn't ask about mortality rates for specific age ranges. I asked for mortality rates for all people. COVID blows RSV out of the water and you know that.
-
Ya that’s fair and I acknowledge that/never argued overall IFR of RSV to be worse for any age much less for all ages. Only think I said was mortality from C19 or RSV for kids was rare, then conversation went sideways from there which is required when trying to talk about anything on Scoop.
Conversation started around Childrens Hospitals being full across the country, you brought comparing all age mortality into the mix.
-
Ya that’s fair and I acknowledge that/never argued overall IFR of RSV to be worse for any age much less for all ages. Only think I said was mortality from C19 or RSV for kids was rare, then conversation went sideways from there which is required when trying to talk about anything on Scoop.
Conversation started around Childrens Hospitals being full across the country, you brought comparing all age mortality into the mix.
How the f*ck do you still not know how disease spreads? At this point, I think you must be an act. Because every time you come here, you get dunked on ruthlessly.
-
How the f*ck do you still not know how disease spreads? At this point, I think you must be an act. Because every time you come here, you get dunked on ruthlessly.
🤦♂️
-
Ya that’s fair and I acknowledge that/never argued overall IFR of RSV to be worse for any age much less for all ages. Only think I said was mortality from C19 or RSV for kids was rare, then conversation went sideways from there which is required when trying to talk about anything on Scoop.
Conversation started around Childrens Hospitals being full across the country, you brought comparing all age mortality into the mix.
Do you think the differing mortality rates might have something to do with why there were calls to shut down for COVID but not for RSV?
-
Do you think the differing mortality rates might have something to do with why there were calls to shut down for COVID but not for RSV?
No I don’t. Total number of deaths might have been higher without the lockdowns (impossible to know ) but not the IFR.
-
No I don’t. Total number of deaths might have been higher without the lockdowns (impossible to know ) but not the IFR.
Well no, idk why anyone would think IFR would go up (or down) because of a lockdown. But infections would go up no? So if the IFR stays the same but infections go up wouldn't that mean more deaths? So couldn't a reasonable person say that because COVID is significantly more lethal than RSV, it makes more sense to do a lockdown for covid than it does for RSV?
-
Well no, idk why anyone would think IFR would go up (or down) because of a lockdown. But infections would go up no? So if the IFR stays the same but infections go up wouldn't that mean more deaths? So couldn't a reasonable person say that because COVID is significantly more lethal than RSV, it makes more sense to do a lockdown for covid than it does for RSV?
TAMU…….
-
TAMU…….
Maybe this time is different
-
Maybe this time is different
It isn’t.
-
I avoided the COVID board like the...well...plague until recently. I take it we've been down this road before?
-
I avoided the COVID board like the...well...plague until recently. I take it we've been down this road before?
Many, many times.
-
Well no, idk why anyone would think IFR would go up (or down) because of a lockdown. But infections would go up no? So if the IFR stays the same but infections go up wouldn't that mean more deaths? So couldn't a reasonable person say that because COVID is significantly more lethal than RSV, it makes more sense to do a lockdown for covid than it does for RSV?
You asked if I thought mortality rate would have changed. If you would have asked the question that you’re now answering I would have answered differently. No way to know for certain though if infections would have gone up, stayed the same, or gone down. Impossible to know.
-
You asked if I thought mortality rate would have changed. If you would have asked the question that you’re now answering I would have answered differently. No way to know for certain though if infections would have gone up, stayed the same, or gone down. Impossible to know.
I didn't ask if I thought mortality rate would have changed. This is what I asked:
Do you think the differing mortality rates might have something to do with why there were calls to shut down for COVID but not for RSV?
-
I didn't ask if I thought mortality rate would have changed. This is what I asked:
Right, I know what you asked.
-
The pacearrow experience in a nutshell...
You asked if I thought mortality rate would have changed.
I didn't ask if I thought mortality rate would have changed.
Right, I know what you asked.
-
I avoided the COVID board like the...well...plague until recently. I take it we've been down this road before?
Down this road with pace. He is a troll who specializes at being disingenuous.
Might as well call this "pacing" --> Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate"
-
Down this road with pace. He is a troll who specializes at being disingenuous.
Might as well call this "pacing" --> Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate"
🐷🐷
-
Pointing out the hypocrisy by so many on this board is not disingenuous. I am not advocating for schools to be shut down cause the current RSV outbreak but nor was I advocating to keep schools closed during Covid, I’ve been consistent.
I’m asking why all those on this board who argued to keep schools closed cause Covid risked filling up hospitals aren’t also advocating for the same preventative measures now when there are other respiratory illnesses that are actually filling up children’s hospitals across the country leading to delayed treatments, surgeries, etc.
You're not pointing out hypocrisy. You're only demonstrating your lack of understanding, as usual. You find the newest click-bait article of the day that gets passed around twitter or facebook and run with the headline. You're the family and friends I've left behind over the last two years because they are unsaveable.
We closed schools because Covid kills. RSV poses an infinitesimal risk to basically everyone. Covid has killed over a million Americans.
Each year in the United States, RSV leads to approximately:
2.1 million outpatient (non-hospitalization) visits among children younger than 5 years old.(1)
58,000 hospitalizations among children younger than 5 years old.(2)
177,000 hospitalizations among adults 65 years and older.(3)
14,000 deaths among adults 65 years and older.(3)
100–300 deaths in children younger than 5 years old.(4)