Close to Home Reports

[mu_hilltopper]

If it impacts your student, they will let you know.

Nature abhors a vacuum.  The grapevine will fill it -- and possibly with misinformation.   Be as transparent as possible, without divulging specifics.  Otherwise -- chaos.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I mean, you don't really have a right to know anything beyond the basics. If it impacts your student, they will let you know.

Yeah this sounds great until the emails start coming out.

In March I started to get the 'employee x wasn't in direct contact with you but did use the common areas of clarity, b, c .'

So it doesn't work great.  Ultimate transparency or remove the risk.  The in between seems chaotic. 

[GooooMarquette]

I mean, you don't really have a right to know anything beyond the basics. If it impacts your student, they will let you know.

If you are a parent deciding whether to send your child into a school or keep them home for virtual learning, I think you have a right to know the basic demographics of any positive cases, so that you can make an informed decision about your child's well-being. Obviously, I would be most concerned if the case was in my child's classroom, but I would still have an interest in knowing that there was another person wandering around the school building with Covid.

[The Sultan]

If you are a parent deciding whether to send your child into a school or keep them home for virtual learning, I think you have a right to know the basic demographics of any positive cases, so that you can make an informed decision about your child's well-being. Obviously, I would be most concerned if the case was in my child's classroom, but I would still have an interest in knowing that there was another person wandering around the school building with Covid.

You may have an interest, but you don't have a right to know.

So it doesn't work great.  Ultimate transparency or remove the risk.  The in between seems chaotic. 

Ultimate transparency isn't possible. 

[GooooMarquette]

You may have an interest, but you don't have a right to know.

I disagree. This is not a typical, run-of-the-mill illness; this is the worst pandemic in more than a century. Schools are tacitly acknowledging this already by giving more information than we typically get.

And as you and other stated in various threads, parents have to make the decision both on the best interests of their kids, and on their family-specific knowledge about who their kids might bring the virus home to. Since schools aren't privy to the knowledge of how many elderly or other at-risk people might be at every one their students' homes, parents need this information in order to make the exact types of decisions you advocated earlier. Are there any '2-risk factor' people in the home? How about several '1-risk factor' people? Only parents know this, and they have a right to information about the outbreak in order to protect their families.

[The Sultan]

I disagree. This is not a typical, run-of-the-mill illness; this is the worst pandemic in more than a century. Schools are tacitly acknowledging this already by giving more information than we typically get.

And as you and other stated in various threads, parents have to make the decision both on the best interests of their kids, and on their family-specific knowledge about who their kids might bring the virus home to. Since schools aren't privy to the knowledge of how many elderly or other at-risk people might be at every one their students' homes, parents need this information in order to make the exact types of decisions you advocated earlier. Are there any '2-risk factor' people in the home? How about several '1-risk factor' people? Only parents know this, and they have a right to information about the outbreak in order to protect their families.

If you are determined to be a close contact, they should let you know.  Otherwise, simply saying that someone in Room 102 tested positive, while your kid is in Room 313, shouldn't be relevant information.

[mu_hilltopper]

If you are determined to be a close contact, they should let you know.  Otherwise, simply saying that someone in Room 102 tested positive, while your kid is in Room 313, shouldn't be relevant information.

This argument falls apart when Room 102's positive steps out into the hallway, the lunchroom, the bathroom.  AND if we learned anything from the cruise ship debacles, COVID likely spread through HVAC systems. 

I agree with Gooooo here.   This is a lethal disease and every family has an unknown amount of health sensitivity and has rights too.

[GooooMarquette]

If you are determined to be a close contact, they should let you know.  Otherwise, simply saying that someone in Room 102 tested positive, while your kid is in Room 313, shouldn't be relevant information.

We are going to have to disagree on this one, Fluff. Families know best what their individual situations are and the level of risk they're going to accept in order to send their kids to school, and they can only determine this if they know what the situation is in the school.

Also, you are assuming that the kids in room 102 are always separated from the kids on room 313 - even on buses, and in the gym/lunchroom, and even walking to the bathroom between classes. The only way they would know this for sure is if they tracked the kids' movements electronically. As far as I know, no schools are doing this.

And when you add in 'Topper's comment about what we've learned about transmission through HVAC systems on cruise ships and in restaurants, all bets are off.

[The Sultan]

So what do you want the schools to do?  Publish a daily map of where the kids classrooms are, the route they walk down the hallways, the bathrooms they used, etc.

Sorry but that's an impossibility for ANY organization.  What schools should do is alert parents if there is a positive case in their classroom, their bus route or any other close contact.  And if they want to keep a dashboard, that's fine. 

But other than that, more specific information isn't necessary.

[GooooMarquette]

So what do you want the schools to do?  Publish a daily map of where the kids classrooms are, the route they walk down the hallways, the bathrooms they used, etc.

Sorry but that's an impossibility for ANY organization.  What schools should do is alert parents if there is a positive case in their classroom, their bus route or any other close contact.  And if they want to keep a dashboard, that's fine. 

But other than that, more specific information isn't necessary.

Nope, just an update on the number of kids who have tested positive, and the grade or classroom they are in. From there, the parents can decide their risk tolerance.

Is that an impossibility?

[Jockey]

This argument falls apart when Room 102's positive steps out into the hallway, the lunchroom, the bathroom.  AND if we learned anything from the cruise ship debacles, COVID likely spread through HVAC systems. 

I agree with Gooooo here.   This is a lethal disease and every family has an unknown amount of health sensitivity and has rights too.

Or when the kid is around his brother at home who is in a different classroom.

We don't need to know personal information. The kid shouldn't be identified to other parents (which is probably illegal, anyway), but all parents should have general information about cases in their kid's school.

[The Sultan]

Nope, just an update on the number of kids who have tested positive, and the grade or classroom they are in. From there, the parents can decide their risk tolerance.

Is that an impossibility?

If you can't assume that kids from one classroom aren't interacting with students from another, then what does it matter?

[GooooMarquette]

If you can't assume that kids from one classroom aren't interacting with students from another, then what does it matter?

You seem to be implying that schools can guarantee that kids from one class won't interact with kids from another. And you were accusing me of placing unrealistic expectations on the school? Lol.

But to answer your question, it matters because if there is some interaction but no positive cases, the risk is low. If there is some interaction and lots of positive cases, the risk is greater. Simple math.

And then there's the HVAC.

[Hards Alumni]

If you send your child back to school you should expect that someone in that school will test positive in the next month.  Knowing WHO that kid is or WHERE they were won't change anything.  If you're worried you shouldn't have sent your kid in the first place.  Assume (like they have in downtown Madison) that if they were at the school with the kid, there is a chance they were exposed.  Knowing that it was a 5th grader when your child is a 3rd grader has little impact.  Sure, the chance that your 3rd grader has a LOWER chance of having been exposed, but it is definitely non-zero.  So would you feel better if you knew it was a 20% chance?  10%?  70%?

Tracking an infected child's movement around a school is neigh impossible... especially if he was asymptomatic for three days.

The fact is that there will always be a risk, and anything above non-zero should be cause for worry.   So just don't send your kids.

[GooooMarquette]

If you send your child back to school you should expect that someone in that school will test positive in the next month.  Knowing WHO that kid is or WHERE they were won't change anything.  If you're worried you shouldn't have sent your kid in the first place.  Assume (like they have in downtown Madison) that if they were at the school with the kid, there is a chance they were exposed.  Knowing that it was a 5th grader when your child is a 3rd grader has little impact.  Sure, the chance that your 3rd grader has a LOWER chance of having been exposed, but it is definitely non-zero.  So would you feel better if you knew it was a 20% chance?  10%?  70%?

Tracking an infected child's movement around a school is neigh impossible... especially if he was asymptomatic for three days.

The fact is that there will always be a risk, and anything above non-zero should be cause for worry.   So just don't send your kids.

And to think others have accused me of being anti-school earlier in the thread....

I am trying to come up with a reasonable way to balance the resources of the school with the necessary risk-balancing that parents must do, in an attempt to create a system wherein parents can be comfortable sending their kids to school. I didn't say the number has to be zero, and I haven't demanded 'tracking' of kids who test positive. Yet when I ask for reasonable data - the number of kids testing positive, and the grade and classroom - in order for parents to make an informed decision, the response is "just don't send your kids?"

Wow.

[Hards Alumni]

And to think others have accused me of being anti-school earlier in the thread....

I am trying to come up with a reasonable way to balance the resources of the school with the necessary risk-balancing that parents must do, in an attempt to create a system wherein parents can be comfortable sending their kids to school. I didn't say the number has to be zero, and I haven't demanded 'tracking' of kids who test positive. Yet when I ask for reasonable data - the number of kids testing positive, and the grade and classroom - in order for parents to make an informed decision, the response is "just don't send your kids?"

Wow.

You can start with some changes to laws in the country.  Schools can't and won't violate privacy laws because of the pandemic.  And yes, that would be my decision if I had kids that are school aged.  Either I'm comfortable with taking chances (I'm not) and I send them... or you know the saying... play stupid games...

Everyone in my immediate family and my in-laws are keeping their kids at home.  It sure isn't great, but it's better than worrying about what is going on every day at school.

[naginiF]

Stupid question? Is this conversation specific to public schools?

If 'yes', I'll keep my opinion to myself.

If you're dealing with a private school I'm happy to share what our school has done to keep the kids/classes separated, maintain an clean environment and what the communication with with community plan is. Tomorrow will be the end of our 3rd week back and there have been zero cases of covid, or kids having covid symptoms (one strep throat), or kids quarantining because of exposure.

[GooooMarquette]

You can start with some changes to laws in the country.  Schools can't and won't violate privacy laws because of the pandemic.  And yes, that would be my decision if I had kids that are school aged.  Either I'm comfortable with taking chances (I'm not) and I send them... or you know the saying... play stupid games...

Everyone in my immediate family and my in-laws are keeping their kids at home.  It sure isn't great, but it's better than worrying about what is going on every day at school.

Just FWIW - most privacy laws don't prohibit the release of basic demographics of contagious diseases as long as personal identifiers aren't disclosed, so I don't think any changes to the laws are necessary.

And personally, I agree with you on not sending kids. If mine were still school-aged, I would keep them home too. But one of the main reasons is exactly what we've been talking about - the lack of transparency that would be necessary to make an informed decision. I was trying to find a middle ground that the 'pro-classroom' and 'stay home' parents could be comfortable with. Obviously, most attempts to find middle grounds are futile these days.

[Hards Alumni]

Stupid question? Is this conversation specific to public schools?

If 'yes', I'll keep my opinion to myself.

If you're dealing with a private school I'm happy to share what our school has done to keep the kids/classes separated, maintain an clean environment and what the communication with with community plan is. Tomorrow will be the end of our 3rd week back and there have been zero cases of covid, or kids having covid symptoms (one strep throat), or kids quarantining because of exposure.

Depends on county... I think.  Personally, I think private schools are more invested, have more power over policy, and are generally much smaller.   They stand a much better chance of not having cases pop up.  Of course, they are not immune, but statistically, the chances should be lower than public schools.

[Hards Alumni]

Just FWIW - most privacy laws don't prohibit the release of basic demographics of contagious diseases as long as personal identifiers aren't disclosed, so I don't think any changes to the laws are necessary.

And personally, I agree with you on not sending kids. If mine were still school-aged, I would keep them home too. But one of the main reasons is exactly what we've been talking about - the lack of transparency that would be necessary to make an informed decision. I was trying to find a middle ground that the 'pro-classroom' and 'stay home' parents could be comfortable with. Obviously, most attempts to find middle grounds are futile these days.

Maybe.  I'm sure it will be litigated.  But schools are trying to CYA.  Better to have an upset parent rather than a potential privacy lawsuit.

[naginiF]

Depends on county... I think.  Personally, I think private schools are more invested, have more power over policy, and are generally much smaller.   They stand a much better chance of not having cases pop up.  Of course, they are not immune, but statistically, the chances should be lower than public schools.

That's why I asked. We were able to implement a plan specific to our school layout and throw a ton of resources at the problem. Not an option for public so what we did wouldn't be helpful at all, but (so far) we're having better results than other similar private schools in the area who didn't take all the steps we did.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

That's why I asked. We were able to implement a plan specific to our school layout and throw a ton of resources at the problem. Not an option for public so what we did wouldn't be helpful at all, but (so far) we're having better results than other similar private schools in the area who didn't take all the steps we did.

Our school is similar.  Lunches in the classroom.  Different entrances and exits.  Outdoor classes.  Air purifiers. Separate play areas on the playground.  No mixing of classrooms.  Masks, sanitize out, wash in.

Of course, Dane Co randomly limited school to k-2, so not the same as having K-8 there, but there was a livestream option for all grades.

Good to see the empty nesters and the no kids experts continue to weigh in, despite no knowledge of the actual situation.   

[naginiF]

Our school is similar. Lunches in the classroom.  Different entrances and exits.  Outdoor classes.  Air purifiers. Separate play areas on the playground.  No mixing of classrooms.  Masks, sanitize out, wash in.

Of course, Dane Co randomly limited school to k-2, so not the same as having K-8 there, but there was a livestream option for all grades.

Good to see the empty nesters and the no kids experts continue to weigh in, despite no knowledge of the actual situation.   

Sounds exactly like us. We're fortunate that K and younger are in a different building on campus and 1&2, 3-5, and 6-8 each have their own floors where dedicated entrance/exits could be established.

The big difference between us and the other private schools in the area is we seem to be one of the few that put up outdoor classrooms and went with an air purification system that uses dried hydrogen peroxide.

If we were public our kids would be virtual.

[Hards Alumni]

Our school is similar.  Lunches in the classroom.  Different entrances and exits.  Outdoor classes.  Air purifiers. Separate play areas on the playground.  No mixing of classrooms.  Masks, sanitize out, wash in.

Of course, Dane Co randomly limited school to k-2, so not the same as having K-8 there, but there was a livestream option for all grades.

Good to see the empty nesters and the no kids experts continue to weigh in, despite no knowledge of the actual situation.   

I mean Zigs, you talk about a lot of things that you nothing about too.   

[Jockey]

Depends on county... I think.  Personally, I think private schools are more invested, have more power over policy, and are generally much smaller.   They stand a much better chance of not having cases pop up.  Of course, they are not immune, but statistically, the chances should be lower than public schools.

Do they do this because the money incentive is much stronger for private schools?