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Marquette
Marquette

Madness

Date/Time: Oct 16, 2020?
TV: NA
Schedule for 2019-20
18-12

Poll

How many want to miss NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?

Yes.  It shortens the time to make a move.
12 (9%)
No.  Counter productive, Wojo has made progress and this is silly talk.
91 (67.9%)
No. I hope MU wins a game and Wojo is hired away elsewhere.
31 (23.1%)

Total Members Voted: 134

Voting closed: January 18, 2020, 11:45:13 AM

Author Topic: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?  (Read 7455 times)

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #100 on: January 13, 2020, 09:54:54 PM »
There are some here who will never be satisfied under Wojo. They've been against the hire from day 1 and refuse to change their stance, regardless of win/loss record. I truly believe that. If wojo won the conference in 3 of the next 5 seasons and went sweet 16 or better in that same time period, they would be thrilled with the success of MU, but if you talked to them privately, they'd still say they don't like wojo. Happy with MU success, sure. But don't like Wojo. And they'll pounce at the next chance they get.

They say things like "I hope to be proven wrong." But I don't believe that either.

Of course, they can't root for him to fail without being portrayed as anti-MU. So, they hope for success and him being poached. However, if he's successful here, that's only going to make the admin/BOT dig in harder on supporting him. Quite the catch-22.

I wish those guys would just come out and say they don't like Wojo and want him gone no matter the success/failure of MU. Draw the line in the sand. But they won't.

Really it’s just been this year that I have turned. Life’s not quite as simple as you portray.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Aughnanure

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #101 on: January 13, 2020, 09:56:51 PM »
Not the main argument or the only argument...an argument, sure, but if such examples exist they should be easy to find.

By some posters, yes it is the only part of their argument. A. Lot. Just cause you do t make it the main part of YOUR argument, doesn’t mean others haven’t and still do.

I’m not doing your homework for you. Pay attention and stop looking for only the things you want to see and you will find the pro-Wojo people being insufferable with their blinders on and anti-Wojo posters being reasonable and vice-versa.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:01:56 PM by Aughnanure »
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WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #102 on: January 13, 2020, 10:02:13 PM »
Yes, quite often (i.e. “name me the coach to replace Wojo who could keep this class”). It is used all the time as one of the few arguments some pro-Wojo posters turn to when they can’t point to any other good on-the-court reason to keep him.

Emphasis on some. But it is made way too much to the point that it’s pathetic. Pinning our hopes for success on HS students and falsely believing no other coach could possibly recruit decently as well.

So ironically false.

NoJos constantly misrepresent Wojos record, and when they are called out for their BS they retreat to their ONE valid talking point.

Wojo hasn't won a game in the NCAA tournament.


Cheeks

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #103 on: January 13, 2020, 10:05:02 PM »
Really it’s just been this year that I have turned. Life’s not quite as simple as you portray.

That may be the case for you that you've come out, but that's not the case for others who have been that way since day one and as Jesu points out...will not matter what he does.

20% want us not to make the NCAAs so they can get their way with a new coach...wishing for losing more than winning. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #104 on: January 13, 2020, 10:26:09 PM »
So ironically false.

NoJos constantly misrepresent Wojos record, and when they are called out for their BS they retreat to their ONE valid talking point.

Wojo hasn't won a game in the NCAA tournament.

Yeah. That's the only valid point...  ::)

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #105 on: January 13, 2020, 10:33:00 PM »
That may be the case for you that you've come out, but that's not the case for others who have been that way since day one and as Jesu points out...will not matter what he does.

20% want us not to make the NCAAs so they can get their way with a new coach...wishing for losing more than winning. 

I want nothing more than Wojo to succeed. I want him to be the next Al. He is a great representative of the University.

I just don’t think it’s going to happen. The same mistakes keep happening. The lack of in-game adjustments have been a continuing issue.

I’ve lost faith and think it’s time to move on.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

jesmu84

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #106 on: January 13, 2020, 10:39:43 PM »
That may be the case for you that you've come out, but that's not the case for others who have been that way since day one and as Jesu points out...will not matter what he does.

20% want us not to make the NCAAs so they can get their way with a new coach...wishing for losing more than winning.

Fluffy,

I wasn't including you in that group.

I think there are some, who post here loudly, that are in that group.

jesmu84

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #107 on: January 13, 2020, 10:43:31 PM »
Your frustration is misplaced.  Instead of lashing out at Wojo’s critics, you should be angry with Wojo for not shutting them up in the 5.5 years he’s had to do so.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I remember you saying that as long as Wojo is running a clean program, you’ll support him and the team no matter what.  (Again, I apologize if I’m putting words in your mouth, but I recall you saying something like that.)  You can’t blame people for not feeling that way.

I can be frustrated at both. Those wojo critics who want wojo to simply fail, regardless of how it might hurt MU, are the ones who are annoying.

I don't recall saying that. Doesn't mean I djdnt.

However, I did just text my small group of MU friends (after the Seton Hall loss), that I was out on Wojo. I additionally don't feel the team will make the NCAA this season (based on what I've seen from them so far this season - performance, not straight w/l).

I hope Wojo doesn't become Majerus part 2. I hope (if wojo is gone in the next few years) that MU can unearth a Beard or Oats/Musselman (assuming success continues for them).

skianth16

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #108 on: January 13, 2020, 10:59:23 PM »
I can be frustrated at both. Those wojo critics who want wojo to simply fail, regardless of how it might hurt MU, are the ones who are annoying.

There are maybe 2 of those here. No need to focus on the fringe so much.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #109 on: January 13, 2020, 11:23:31 PM »
Yeah. That's the only valid point...  ::)

It's the only objective one.

That's why I purposefully try to avoid including subjective observations in my evaluation of Wojo.

Oddly, things that some of the NoJos think are excuses,( injuries, unanticipated transfers of key players, and lack of experience ) are actually objective evidence that can and should be used when evaluating Wojos record.

Ironically, things NoJos think are fair criticisms, ( assigning Wojo blame for the Hausers leaving, blame for lack of in game adjustments in a loss, blame for player personnel decisions in a loss, etc ) are subjective observations and should generally be avoided when evaluating Wojos record

Here's a little something to think about.

If, over the course of Wojos tenure, his record was so bad, and his recruiting was so bad, and the players were so bad, and there was no excitement surrounding Marquette basketball, wouldn't it be obvious to everyone( the AD, top recruits, ALL the fans )?? Wouldnt he already have been fired??

Again, it's just something to think about.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 11:35:04 PM by WhoaJoe2020 »

statnik

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #110 on: January 13, 2020, 11:56:11 PM »
I do have a question for the Pro-joers: Most good coaches have a common identity that many of their teams exhibit, a trait that makes them a good basketball team year in and year out.  For both Crean and Buzz, it seemed to be that their teams played very hard, a lot of deflections and defensive pressure.  What positive identity/identities have Wojo's teams showed so far?  There is no trademark that I can pin down; it certainly isn't defensive pressure like Wojo the player was known for.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #111 on: January 14, 2020, 12:05:30 AM »
I do have a question for the Pro-joers: Most good coaches have a common identity that many of their teams exhibit, a trait that makes them a good basketball team year in and year out.  For both Crean and Buzz, it seemed to be that their teams played very hard, a lot of deflections and defensive pressure.  What positive identity/identities have Wojo's teams showed so far?  There is no trademark that I can pin down; it certainly isn't defensive pressure like Wojo the player was known for.

He’s extremely loyal. He lets Markus do whatever the hell he wants even if it means alienating and pushing away his second and third best players. Loyalty.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

curbina

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #112 on: January 14, 2020, 12:31:09 AM »
I want Wojo gone ASAP! It has been five plus years! Enough is enough, period!
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Marcus92

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #113 on: January 14, 2020, 12:43:53 AM »
I believe the punctuation mark you're referring to is an exclamation point, not a period.
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curbina

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #114 on: January 14, 2020, 12:47:32 AM »
I believe the punctuation mark you're referring to is an exclamation point, not a period.

Take it any way you want.
“You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks.”
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WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #115 on: January 14, 2020, 12:57:12 AM »
I do have a question for the Pro-joers: Most good coaches have a common identity that many of their teams exhibit, a trait that makes them a good basketball team year in and year out.  For both Crean and Buzz, it seemed to be that their teams played very hard, a lot of deflections and defensive pressure.  What positive identity/identities have Wojo's teams showed so far?  There is no trademark that I can pin down; it certainly isn't defensive pressure like Wojo the player was known for.

I would say allowing players to showcase their offensive talents. I would usually criticize a coach for allowing it to the point of being counterproductive in games and in the locker room, but considering the crap  other schools do to lure recruits,  I think it's the one thing Wojo can point to that will grab a kids attention.

Of course this leads to Markus and the poor Hauser brothers. I find this confusing, because if anyone had a right to bitch it was Sacar. Joey comes in as a true freshman and is immediately given a starting position, 30 minutes a game, and as many shot attempts as Sacar who was a fourth year junior. Sam averaged four more shots per game than Sacar despite being lower in seniority.
That's why I laugh when people try to portray the Hausers as victims.
 
I don't really blame Markus either, because we were short a second quality ball handler. Chartouny was a miss and Greg was hurt. Someone had to take up their slack, and I'm glad it was Markus. It worked until injuries and fatigue caught up to the whole team.

Oddly, all of this may have worked in Wojos favor when it came to recruiting, because he could entice the new recruits with the promise of minutes, a starting position and an opportunity to showcase their talent.

I don't think the new recruits give a damn about what happened with the Hausers and Markus. I know they don't give a damn about what happened to Sacar..
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 04:06:38 AM by WhoaJoe2020 »

jesmu84

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #116 on: January 14, 2020, 04:37:42 AM »
I do have a question for the Pro-joers: Most good coaches have a common identity that many of their teams exhibit, a trait that makes them a good basketball team year in and year out.  For both Crean and Buzz, it seemed to be that their teams played very hard, a lot of deflections and defensive pressure.  What positive identity/identities have Wojo's teams showed so far?  There is no trademark that I can pin down; it certainly isn't defensive pressure like Wojo the player was known for.

3 point shooting

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #117 on: January 14, 2020, 08:42:19 AM »
3 point shooting

Undeniably a major strength

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #118 on: January 14, 2020, 09:05:03 AM »
Hey if he wins a championship or even gets to a Final Four with this crew, I’d be happy to be wrong and give him a lifetime contract.

But IMO it’s in the best long-term interest of MU basketball that he’s not here. He’s not a great coach. So even if he wins a game in the tournament that wouldn’t change my mind. (I’ve never said he couldn’t win a tournament game or simply use that as a measure of success. Mike Deane won a tournament game and he stunk too.)

If he gets this team to the tournament and wins one or two games he will have demonstrated to me that he is developing as a coach and that keeping him is the right move.  I would see no reason to give up on someone who is getting better at his craft while recruiting at a high level and running a clean program.

I should mention that is a big “if” at this point .
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 09:11:54 AM by Shooter McGavin »

Cheeks

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2020, 09:12:21 AM »
If he gets this team to the tournament and wins one or two games he will have demonstrated to me that he is developing as a coach and that keeping him is the right move.  I would see no reason to give up on someone who is getting better at his craft while recruiting at a high level and running a clean program.

To many people don’t care about the clean program....it is mocked here by some.  Just as some people mocked the Christmas visit by MU players to the less fortunate posted here...that’s who some of our fans are.  Remember that.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2020, 09:15:09 AM »
This is a classic MUScoop thread. 

It's all about recriminations ..  identifying the bad fans, the good fans, dividing the fanbase up, punishing those on the "other" side.

In before the lock.

Cheeks

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2020, 09:16:51 AM »
This is a classic MUScoop thread. 

It's all about recriminations ..  identifying the bad fans, the good fans, dividing the fanbase up, punishing those on the "other" side.

In before the lock.

Fans were divided on day one....hundreds of posts to prove that out.  Happens every coaching change.  Hell, happens every damn game result here.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

The Lens

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #122 on: January 14, 2020, 09:22:35 AM »
To many people don’t care about the clean program....it is mocked here by some.  Just as some people mocked the Christmas visit by MU players to the less fortunate posted here...that’s who some of our fans are.  Remember that.

Ironic that you're the guy who wants higher academic standards.  When Jae Crowder gave my daughter an autograph it didn't look like this: "Two: Lil Lens"
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 09:37:01 AM by The Lens »
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mu_hilltopper

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #123 on: January 14, 2020, 09:33:44 AM »
Fans were divided on day one....hundreds of posts to prove that out.  Happens every coaching change.  Hell, happens every damn game result here.

And you're doing a great service.  Great job.

Cheeks

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Re: Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?
« Reply #124 on: January 14, 2020, 09:42:46 AM »
I want Wojo gone ASAP! It has been five plus years! Enough is enough, period!


You wanted him out with your very first post in 2015 claiming the program was in turmoil....then you were oddly quiet (under this username) until 2018...then went quiet again until last last year.

When presented with data last year to counter your claims, you said it was “talking heads” data (whatever that means) when it was actually data from Sagarin, Net, BPI, KenPom, and others.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

 

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