Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?

[WhoaJoe2020]

Those two losses definitely cost us a tournament bid. I'm not trying to minimize them. Individually, each one was a bad result (although I believe we were underdogs @SJU)

I'm just trying to look at it as a whole. We played our hottest stretch of basketball in the last 7 games. If you go back to when we were 4-7 in conference with 4 games left against tournament teams and 4 of the final 7 on the road, I don't think anyone was predicting a 5-2 finish.

The crazy thing , is that you and f/k/a are both right and wrong.

It wasn't a collapse AND those two losses had a significant impact on Marquette not making the tournament in the 2017-2018 season. 

Marquette had a good finish but stumbled twice at the end of the 2017-2018 season. Those two stumbles likely cost Marquette an invitation to the NCAA tournament.

Not a COLLAPSE and not a STRONG finish.

[BM1090]

I am having trouble finding your four wins. 

In 2017-2018 the BE sent six teams to the NCAAs.  Villanova and Xavier were #1 seeds.  Seton Hall and Creighton were #8 seeds, while Butler and Providence were #10 seeds.  Starting in February, MU beat Seton Hall, Creighton (twice), St. John's and Georgetown (in OT).  That adds up to three wins vs. tournament teams (Seton Hall and 2x Creighton). 

Overall, against the teams that got an NCAA bid, MU had a 5-7 record in 2017-2018.

Looking deeper, that year there was a three way tie for 3rd in the BE - Seton Hall, Creighton and Providence - all at 10-8.  MU finished in a tie with Butler for 6th pace at 9-9. 

The wins you reference - Seton Hall and Creighton - are decent wins but these teams were barely above 500 in conference.   As I mentioned earlier, these weren't top half of the bracket teams in the selection committee's assessment.  And the committee found Butler more worthy of a bid despite an identical record and the fact they staggered to the finish line, too (although one loss was in double OT away at St. Johns).  Perhaps they got the bid due to the fact that they beat us twice.   

From the start of February to the end of the regular season, we lost to terrible St. Johns and DePaul and needed OT to beat an equally awful Georgetown team.  Then in the BE tournament, we squeezed past DePaul by 3 and then got blown out by Villanova by 24 (94 to 70).

Like I said, this is my opinion, but the struggle to beat and outright losses to bad teams and the blowout by Villanova in the BET (that I had actually forgotten) had a disproportionately large impact that more than offset the wins you reference.

Much like last year, MU had its destiny in its hands in 2017-2018 (should have been 11-7, not 9-9) and fell apart when it mattered.  Same dog, different fleas.

You are correct on the bolded. For some reason I lumped in the win @ Providence in the 5-2 stretch. My apologies.

We were one marquee win away from getting in the tournament that year. I remember being upset that Providence, Creighton and SHU were all safely in and we were left out despite going 5-1 against that group. But each of those 3 had a marquee win that we didn't earn.

I just don't see how you can truly believe we should have been 11-7 that year. You expected us to win our last 7 despite only being favored in 3-4 of those games? If you believe that, then okay we can agree to disagree. I don't think that's a reasonable expectation.

If you think we should have won earlier games so we didn't have to win our last 7, then we didn't collapse.

[BM1090]

The crazy thing , is that you and f/k/a are both right and wrong.

It wasn't a collapse AND those two losses had a significant impact on Marquette not making the tournament in the 2017-2018 season. 

Marquette had a good finish but stumbled twice at the end of the 2017-2018 season. Those two stumbles likely cost Marquette an invitation to the NCAA tournament.

Not a COLLAPSE and not a STRONG finish.

Yeah, it's mostly just semantics. I have no issue with F/k/a. We disagree often but he also is clearly not a troll. We just look at things differently and that's not an issue.

[CTWarrior]

There are some here who will never be satisfied under Wojo. They've been against the hire from day 1 and refuse to change their stance, regardless of win/loss record. I truly believe that. If wojo won the conference in 3 of the next 5 seasons and went sweet 16 or better in that same time period, they would be thrilled with the success of MU, but if you talked to them privately, they'd still say they don't like wojo. Happy with MU success, sure. But don't like Wojo. And they'll pounce at the next chance they get.

They say things like "I hope to be proven wrong." But I don't believe that either.

Of course, they can't root for him to fail without being portrayed as anti-MU. So, they hope for success and him being poached. However, if he's successful here, that's only going to make the admin/BOT dig in harder on supporting him. Quite the catch-22.

I wish those guys would just come out and say they don't like Wojo and want him gone no matter the success/failure of MU. Draw the line in the sand. But they won't.

I think this is 100% wrong.  I think there are a lot of people who are tiring of the lack of progress under Wojo.  We kept hearing that the future is bright and the first two big years we were gunning for featured a collapse, an exodus of top players and a bubbly-looking start to the second year.  I was Pro-Wojo until March of last year and am in the not sure group now, but I completely understand the attitude of the anti-Wojo faction at this point.  If he wins the Big East or gets a high seed accompanied by an NCAA run, you'd see a marked lessening of the criticisms.  He's been here a long time now without accomplishing much of anything.

[jesmu84]

I think this is 100% wrong.  I think there are a lot of people who are tiring of the lack of progress under Wojo.  We kept hearing that the future is bright and the first two big years we were gunning for featured a collapse, an exodus of top players and a bubbly-looking start to the second year.  I was Pro-Wojo until March of last year and am in the not sure group now, but I completely understand the attitude of the anti-Wojo faction at this point.  If he wins the Big East or gets a high seed accompanied by an NCAA run, you'd see a marked lessening of the criticisms.  He's been here a long time now without accomplishing much of anything.

I agree with the bulk of your post. Winning cures most/all ills.

However, there are absolutely posters here who want wojo gone no matter what. And have wanted that since day 1. For example, curbina.

[f/k/a humanlung]

The crazy thing , is that you and f/k/a are both right and wrong.

It wasn't a collapse AND those two losses had a significant impact on Marquette not making the tournament in the 2017-2018 season. 

Marquette had a good finish but stumbled twice at the end of the 2017-2018 season. Those two stumbles likely cost Marquette an invitation to the NCAA tournament.

Not a COLLAPSE and not a STRONG finish.

I can live with this. 

[f/k/a humanlung]

You are correct on the bolded. For some reason I lumped in the win @ Providence in the 5-2 stretch. My apologies.

We were one marquee win away from getting in the tournament that year. I remember being upset that Providence, Creighton and SHU were all safely in and we were left out despite going 5-1 against that group. But each of those 3 had a marquee win that we didn't earn.

I just don't see how you can truly believe we should have been 11-7 that year. You expected us to win our last 7 despite only being favored in 3-4 of those games? If you believe that, then okay we can agree to disagree. I don't think that's a reasonable expectation.

If you think we should have won earlier games so we didn't have to win our last 7, then we didn't collapse.

I got to 11-7 by winning the St. Johns and DePaul games.  I think we can agree that they were very winnable games.

[f/k/a humanlung]

I agree with the bulk of your post. Winning cures most/all ills.

However, there are absolutely posters here who want wojo gone no matter what. And have wanted that since day 1. For example, curbina.

I am clearly a "nojo" and at the same time think it's sad that Jesmu84 is right regarding some people's feelings on Wojo. 

[Ardmore Mug]

Im sorry, but isn't this enough on this stupid topic???  Can the mods in their infinite wisdom, Please close this thread??

[WhoaJoe2020]

I think this is 100% wrong.  I think there are a lot of people who are tiring of the lack of progress under Wojo.  We kept hearing that the future is bright and the first two big years we were gunning for featured a collapse, an exodus of top players and a bubbly-looking start to the second year.  I was Pro-Wojo until March of last year and am in the not sure group now, but I completely understand the attitude of the anti-Wojo faction at this point.  If he wins the Big East or gets a high seed accompanied by an NCAA run, you'd see a marked lessening of the criticisms.  He's been here a long time now without accomplishing much of anything.

Every situation and every program is different.

While some see Marquettes 2nd place finish in the BEast and a 5 seed in the tournament as a sign of improvement, others don't. While some see a top ten recruiting class as a sign of encouragement, others don't. While some see a team still competing  despite the unforced exodus of two key players, others don't.

Some think Wojo and Marquette should be held to the same standard as the blue blood coaches and programs, or cherry picked example of more successful coaches and programs, others think that's unfair and unrealistic.

Looking objectively at the totality of Wojos tenure, including next years recruiting class, an argument can be made that he has earned more time.

If no argument could be made for giving Wojo more time it would be OBVIOUS to EVERYONE  that he should be let go.

Sincerely yours,  Captain Obvious

[f/k/a humanlung]

Im sorry, but isn't this enough on this stupid topic???  Can the mods in their infinite wisdom, Please close this thread??

On behalf of everyone who forced you to read it, our apologies.

[skianth16]

Someone seems cranky we won again today...

That post is a week old. Quit picking fights. You ruin this site day after day. Just stop.