Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?

[WhoaJoe2020]

It’s WhoaJoe, just pull his chain and watch him go!

Poke.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Arizona State that year was on a neutral court and they were 10-3 to start the season with losses to MU and Kentucky.  They had beaten NC State, Creighton, a top 20 Texas A&M team, and Belmont during that opening stretch.  There's a reason they won only 5 games after that 10-3 start....care to opine why?

Georgetown was an away, conference game. 

You and others said we don't play hard down the stretch....that is demonstrably false or we wouldn't be 10-1 in OT games, as well winning so many others. 

Let me ask you, what do YOU consider acceptable?  Take a look at all the teams in our league the last 5 years...how many of them have glowing Big East records?   

Going into this season and looking at the last four years, Marquette has the 4th most conference wins in the conference, which includes his second year which I still contend is a rebuilding year, but included anyway.  Nova first, Xavier, Seton Hall, then us.

What I view as acceptable is a team that gives 100%, every minute of every game.  A team the dives for loose balls every time.  That refuses to back down no matter what the score.

 

[f/k/a humanlung]

#4 is pretty dishonest. There's no way that 2018 was a collapse. In our last 7 games we went 5-2. It's true we lost to a bad DePaul team and that may have cost us a NCAA bid. Our other loss was on the road against SJU, who started 0-11 in conference and then beat Duke and finished the year 4-14.

In that end of season stretch, we beat #94 Georgetown on the road, #30 Creighton on the road, #26 SHU on the road, and #30 Creighton at home. That's 3 quad one and 1 quad two win in the last 7 games. 3 wins over NCAA teams. We were playing our best basketball at the end of the year in 2018, unfortunately we dug ourselves too large of a hole at the start of conference play.

Dishonest?  Am I not telling the truth factually?

We can argue about the impact but those were horrible losses as the worst time.

[Cheeks]

What I view as acceptable is a team that gives 100%, every minute of every game.  A team the dives for loose balls every time.  That refuses to back down no matter what the score.

We agree on this...we probably disagree on whether it is happening.  I suspect all of us, including the coaches, want this.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Dishonest?  Am I not telling the truth factually?

We can argue about the impact but those were horrible losses as the worst time.

No 5-2 is not a collapse down the stretch. A stumble maybe, but not a collapse. Last year was a collapse. I swear, if people would just use the right terminology, things would improve 100% on this board.

[Carl]

Is anyone else sick of seeing this topic at the top of this board? Ridiculous.  You're either a fan of this team and root for their success or you aren't.  If you're rooting for Wojo and therefore Marquette's failure then I don't have much in common with you. Most of you come off as spoiled brats.

 There is nothing that separates a small-ish private school like Marquette from Gonzaga or Duke... or Dayton, Davidson...DePaul.

We have been blessed and fairly lucky with a lot of the success we have had in the past.  It has put us in a very favorable spot going forward.  We are able to attract great talent both at the athlete and coaching level.  It's fine if you hate Wojo.  He won't be here forever, but exaggerating his failures or successes doesn't help anybody.  Careful what you ask for. 

I've been a Nebraska football fan since 1994 and if there is one thing I know, if you keep firing winning coaches you'll run out of them very fast.

[burger]

Just because you pay absorbent tuition.....Does not guarantee you a spot in the tourney each year....

We have the best recruiting class coming in 15 - 20 years.....

The Hauser thing hurts....Part of that was on WOJO.....Part on the Hauser's and Markus.....

It is what it is.....

If you want to go to the tourney every year.....Apply to Duke (good luck) and pony up the 80K.....

That is the price of admission to the NCAA basketball tournament.....

Makes the 500K for 4 years at USC kind of cheap.....

Just talking like a parent who has two in college.....

[f/k/a humanlung]

No 5-2 is not a collapse down the stretch. A stumble maybe, but not a collapse. Last year was a collapse. I swear, if people would just use the right terminology, things would improve 100% on this board.

In my opinion losing to those teams in February is a collapse.  It was inexcusable that it happened and that team should have won those games easily.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Just because you pay absorbent tuition.....Does not guarantee you a spot in the tourney each year....

We have the best recruiting class coming in 15 - 20 years.....

The Hauser thing hurts....Part of that was on WOJO.....Part on the Hauser's and Markus.....

It is what it is.....

If you want to go to the tourney every year.....Apply to Duke (good luck) and pony up the 80K.....

That is the price of admission to the NCAA basketball tournament.....

Makes the 500K for 4 years at USC kind of cheap....

Just talking like a parent who has two in college.....

I don't think dollar bills soak up that much water...

A week or saw ago I got auto corrected into saying that Theo John was a "breast", it happens.

[Cheeks]

Is anyone else sick of seeing this topic at the top of this board? Ridiculous.  You're either a fan of this team and root for their success or you aren't.  If you're rooting for Wojo and therefore Marquette's failure then I don't have much in common with you. Most of you come off as spoiled brats.

 There is nothing that separates a small-ish private school like Marquette from Gonzaga or Duke... or Dayton, Davidson...DePaul.

We have been blessed and fairly lucky with a lot of the success we have had in the past.  It has put us in a very favorable spot going forward.  We are able to attract great talent both at the athlete and coaching level.  It's fine if you hate Wojo.  He won't be here forever, but exaggerating his failures or successes doesn't help anybody.  Careful what you ask for. 

I've been a Nebraska football fan since 1994 and if there is one thing I know, if you keep firing winning coaches you'll run out of them very fast.

Amen Carl

[Cheeks]

In my opinion losing to those teams in February is a collapse.  It was inexcusable that it happened and that team should have won those games easily.

Come on.  You don’t need to twist the logic here.  Losses happen, especially in conference and especially on the road.  5-2 isn’t a collapse.

[Keithtisbarf]

Is anyone else sick of seeing this topic at the top of this board? Ridiculous.  You're either a fan of this team and root for their success or you aren't.  If you're rooting for Wojo and therefore Marquette's failure then I don't have much in common with you. Most of you come off as spoiled brats.

 There is nothing that separates a small-ish private school like Marquette from Gonzaga or Duke... or Dayton, Davidson...DePaul.

We have been blessed and fairly lucky with a lot of the success we have had in the past.  It has put us in a very favorable spot going forward.  We are able to attract great talent both at the athlete and coaching level.  It's fine if you hate Wojo.  He won't be here forever, but exaggerating his failures or successes doesn't help anybody.  Careful what you ask for. 

I've been a Nebraska football fan since 1994 and if there is one thing I know, if you keep firing winning coaches you'll run out of them very fast.

Yes. May as well call it wojoscoop.  I also think the term nojo is incredibly lame. 

[f/k/a humanlung]

Come on.  You don’t need to twist the logic here.  Losses happen, especially in conference and especially on the road.  5-2 isn’t a collapse.

It's not logic.  It's an opinion.  The only factual part of it is the lousy record of the teams that beat us in February.   

[WhoaJoe2020]

It's not logic.  It's an opinion.  The only factual part of it is the lousy record of the teams that beat us in February.

It's inaccurate terminology or hyperbole.
Either way it leads to unnecessary arguments.
Use the right word in the first place and people might even agree with your point.

Example: Marquette stumbled at the end of the 2017-2018. season. I would agree with this statement.

Exaggeration: Marquette collapsed at the end of the 2017- 2018 season. I disagree with this statement.

Changing one word can lead to dramatically different results.

Think about it.

[BM1090]

It's not logic.  It's an opinion.  The only factual part of it is the lousy record of the teams that beat us in February.

But we also had 4 wins in that stretch against tournament teams. 2 of them on the road.

[BM1090]

It's inaccurate terminology or hyperbole.
Either way it leads to unnecessary arguments.
Use the right word in the first place and people might even agree with your point.

Example: Marquette stumbled at the end of the 2017-2018. season. I would agree with this statement.

Exaggeration: Marquette collapsed at the end of the 2017- 2018 season. I disagree with this statement.

Changing one word can lead to dramatically different results.

Think about it.

I wouldn't even agree with stumbled. We went from 13-10 to 19-12. We improved as the season went on, even if that included a bad loss to DePaul.

[WhoaJoe2020]

I wouldn't even agree with stumbled. We went from 13-10 to 19-12. We improved as the season went on, even if that included a bad loss to DePaul.

Two losses in very winnable games at the end of the season that cost Marquette an invitation to the tournament could accurately be described as a stumble at the end of the 2017-2018 season.

Minimization is as bad as hyperbole, and equally inaccurate .

[BM1090]

Two losses in very winnable games at the end of the season that cost Marquette an invitation to the tournament could accurately be described as a stumble at the end of the 2017-2018 season.

Minimization is as bad as hyperbole, and equally inaccurate .

Those two losses definitely cost us a tournament bid. I'm not trying to minimize them. Individually, each one was a bad result (although I believe we were underdogs @SJU)

I'm just trying to look at it as a whole. We played our hottest stretch of basketball in the last 7 games. If you go back to when we were 4-7 in conference with 4 games left against tournament teams and 4 of the final 7 on the road, I don't think anyone was predicting a 5-2 finish.

[Jay Bee]

#Not

https://www.breezejmu.org/sports/does-defense-win-ncaa-basketball-championships/article_edde0c66-261f-11e8-bc8a-5bf692f16fe2.html

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1567816-blueprint-of-an-ncaa-basketball-champion

https://www.vuhoops.com/villanova-basketball/2018/2/8/16986218/villanova-basketball-what-does-kenpom-tell-us-about-past-champions

wtf? You post a belcher report article... and then other articles that argue AGAINST you? lol

https://the-cauldron.com/defense-does-not-win-championships-69887aa968dc

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/offense-may-be-more-important-than-defense-in-ncaa-tournament/

[f/k/a humanlung]

But we also had 4 wins in that stretch against tournament teams. 2 of them on the road.

I am having trouble finding your four wins. 

In 2017-2018 the BE sent six teams to the NCAAs.  Villanova and Xavier were #1 seeds.  Seton Hall and Creighton were #8 seeds, while Butler and Providence were #10 seeds.  Starting in February, MU beat Seton Hall, Creighton (twice), St. John's and Georgetown (in OT).  That adds up to three wins vs. tournament teams (Seton Hall and 2x Creighton). 

Overall, against the teams that got an NCAA bid, MU had a 5-7 record in 2017-2018.

Looking deeper, that year there was a three way tie for 3rd in the BE - Seton Hall, Creighton and Providence - all at 10-8.  MU finished in a tie with Butler for 6th pace at 9-9. 

The wins you reference - Seton Hall and Creighton - are decent wins but these teams were barely above 500 in conference.   As I mentioned earlier, these weren't top half of the bracket teams in the selection committee's assessment.  And the committee found Butler more worthy of a bid despite an identical record and the fact they staggered to the finish line, too (although one loss was in double OT away at St. Johns).  Perhaps they got the bid due to the fact that they beat us twice.   

From the start of February to the end of the regular season, we lost to terrible St. Johns and DePaul and needed OT to beat an equally awful Georgetown team.  Then in the BE tournament, we squeezed past DePaul by 3 and then got blown out by Villanova by 24 (94 to 70).

Like I said, this is my opinion, but the struggle to beat and outright losses to bad teams and the blowout by Villanova in the BET (that I had actually forgotten) had a disproportionately large impact that more than offset the wins you reference.

Much like last year, MU had its destiny in its hands in 2017-2018 (should have been 11-7, not 9-9) and fell apart when it mattered.  Same dog, different fleas. 
 

[Cheeks]

It's not logic.  It's an opinion.  The only factual part of it is the lousy record of the teams that beat us in February.

Fair enough, but I think most people would call you out on saying 5-2 finish is a collapse....opinion or not.  And yes, I would agree it is not logical....fandom makes many things illogical.

[f/k/a humanlung]

nm

[Cheeks]

I wouldn't even agree with stumbled. We went from 13-10 to 19-12. We improved as the season went on, even if that included a bad loss to DePaul.

Yup, which is why when some show an upward trajectory from 9th place to 2nd place in 4 years or a KenPom in the 90's to the 30's....they don't see improvement because for some, 5-2 is collapsing.  What can you do?  Emotion trumps logic.

[f/k/a humanlung]

wtf? You post a belcher report article... and then other articles that argue AGAINST you? lol

https://the-cauldron.com/defense-does-not-win-championships-69887aa968dc

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/offense-may-be-more-important-than-defense-in-ncaa-tournament/

From my first link, if you look at the table, the average adjusted defensive rank was 8.4. Further:

"From 2008 to 2017, the NCAA champions have averaged the third-best defense and the ninth-best offense. In other words, history says that the national champion will be a team with an elite defense and a potent offense."

From my third link:

"By no means am I saying that you need a top-20 offense and defense to win a championship. UConn won it all in 2014 with the 39th ranked AdjO and 10th ranked AdjD. However, based on the past 16 years, no team has won the championship and finished the year with a AdjD rating outside the top-20. Looking at the data from early February in seasons past, the lowest ranked defensive-efficiency was the 2015 Duke Blue Devils with their 48th ranked AdjD (they went on the finish ranked #11 in that category)."

[Stretchdeltsig]

Hate the negative city on scoop. This topic should not be published.