Do you want to miss the NCAA tournament so Wojo gets fired?

[Silkk the Shaka]

And you're doing a great service.  Great job.

Cheeks carrying water for the bosses, looking for a pat on the head & a gold star for his valiant service in the keyboard wars. We salute you Cheeks!

[🏀]

And you're doing a great service.  Great job.

Can't believe I'm going to do this, but without Cheeks I think the majority of positive posters have flown the coop since Saturday. See warriorchick's post. It would be a fairly one-sided place without his couple hundred posts since Seton Hall.

[f/k/a humanlung]

I would say allowing players to showcase their offensive talents. I would usually criticize a coach for allowing it to the point of being counterproductive in games and in the locker room, but considering the crap  other schools do to lure recruits,  I think it's the one thing Wojo can point to that will grab a kids attention.

Of course this leads to Markus and the poor Hauser brothers. I find this confusing, because if anyone had a right to bitch it was Sacar. Joey comes in as a true freshman and is immediately given a starting position, 30 minutes a game, and as many shot attempts as Sacar who was a fourth year junior. Sam averaged four more shots per game than Sacar despite being lower in seniority.
That's why I laugh when people try to portray the Hausers as victims.
 
I don't really blame Markus either, because we were short a second quality ball handler. Chartouny was a miss and Greg was hurt. Someone had to take up their slack, and I'm glad it was Markus. It worked until injuries and fatigue caught up to the whole team.

Oddly, all of this may have worked in Wojos favor when it came to recruiting, because he could entice the new recruits with the promise of minutes, a starting position and an opportunity to showcase their talent.

I don't think the new recruits give a damn about what happened with the Hausers and Markus. I know they don't give a damn about what happened to Sacar..

If you are right, then this is the problem.

Defense wins.  You can shoot yourself into wins against inferior teams but against quality opponents, that is not going to happen on a consistent enough basis.  And many coaches have said this in the past - the ONLY thing you can control is effort on defense.  Everything else, especially what happens on offense, can be subject to having bad games, getting a bad bounce, etc...  Going all out on defense is something that can always be done no matter the opponent.

[f/k/a humanlung]

It's the only objective one.

That's why I purposefully try to avoid including subjective observations in my evaluation of Wojo.

Oddly, things that some of the NoJos think are excuses,( injuries, unanticipated transfers of key players, and lack of experience ) are actually objective evidence that can and should be used when evaluating Wojos record.

Ironically, things NoJos think are fair criticisms, ( assigning Wojo blame for the Hausers leaving, blame for lack of in game adjustments in a loss, blame for player personnel decisions in a loss, etc ) are subjective observations and should generally be avoided when evaluating Wojos record

Here's a little something to think about.

If, over the course of Wojos tenure, his record was so bad, and his recruiting was so bad, and the players were so bad, and there was no excitement surrounding Marquette basketball, wouldn't it be obvious to everyone( the AD, top recruits, ALL the fans )?? Wouldnt he already have been fired??

Again, it's just something to think about.

It's not the only objective one.

1) Overall won loss record over three of fours years.  Right at 20, except for last year (an outlier).
2) BE won loss record over three of four years.  (8, 10, 9 - and a 12 last year in a weak BE.  Ex last year, Wojo is 500).
3) 11-18 record vs. ranked teams.
4) Collapse at end of 2018 that likely cost is an NCAA bid.  We lost on 2/10/18 to a 16-17 (4-14 in BE) SJU.  We lost on 2/24/18 to 11-20 (4-14 in BE) DePaul.  It took OT on 2/26/18 to beat 15-15 (5-13 in BE) Georgetown.  That was quite the OT win as someone pointed out in another post...
5) Last year.  Don't need to get into that, we all know the crap show that was heading into the NCAAs.

No this part is, arguably, subjective at points.  Wojo is a good person but he is not a good coach.  Not at game prep, not at putting players in a position to win, not at adjusting in-game, not at adjusting his system to fit talents of players, not at managing/maintaining focus of the team, not getting max effort every game, not at correcting consistent problem areas (turnovers, defense, offensive flow, player development, etc...).

Why no change?  I am not on the BOT and they are the only ones who know.  Looking at the "pros" of Wojo:  Wojo runs a clean program and I am all for that.  His win total at around 20 per year, on the surface, looks good (although we are not remotely consistently competitive vs. quality opponents).  That said, there is no doubt that he has pulled off some big wins.  He is a great recruiter, in my opinion, of that there is no doubt.

He is doing just enough to be "safe" with this BOT.  But not enough to be successful with talent that should be seeing far more success. 

[BM1090]

It's not the only objective one.

1) Overall won loss record over three of fours years.  Right at 20, except for last year (an outlier).
2) BE won loss record over three of four years.  (8, 10, 9 - and a 12 last year in a weak BE.  Ex last year, Wojo is 500).
3) 11-18 record vs. ranked teams.
4) Collapse at end of 2018 that likely cost is an NCAA bid.  We lost on 2/10/18 to a 16-17 (4-14 in BE) SJU.  We lost on 2/24/18 to 11-20 (4-14 in BE) DePaul.  It took OT on 2/26/18 to beat 15-15 (5-13 in BE) Georgetown.  That was quite the OT win as someone pointed out in another post...
5) Last year.  Don't need to get into that, we all know the crap show that was heading into the NCAAs.

No this part is, arguably, subjective at points.  Wojo is a good person but he is not a good coach.  Not at game prep, not at putting players in a position to win, not at adjusting in-game, not at adjusting his system to fit talents of players, not at managing/maintaining focus of the team, not getting max effort every game, not at correcting consistent problem areas (turnovers, defense, offensive flow, player development, etc...).

Why no change?  I am not on the BOT and they are the only ones who know.  Looking at the "pros" of Wojo:  Wojo runs a clean program and I am all for that.  His win total at around 20 per year, on the surface, looks good (although we are not remotely consistently competitive vs. quality opponents).  That said, there is no doubt that he has pulled off some big wins.  He is a great recruiter, in my opinion, of that there is no doubt.

He is doing just enough to be "safe" with this BOT.  But not enough to be successful with talent that should be seeing far more success.

#4 is pretty dishonest. There's no way that 2018 was a collapse. In our last 7 games we went 5-2. It's true we lost to a bad DePaul team and that may have cost us a NCAA bid. Our other loss was on the road against SJU, who started 0-11 in conference and then beat Duke and finished the year 4-14.

In that end of season stretch, we beat #94 Georgetown on the road, #30 Creighton on the road, #26 SHU on the road, and #30 Creighton at home. That's 3 quad one and 1 quad two win in the last 7 games. 3 wins over NCAA teams. We were playing our best basketball at the end of the year in 2018, unfortunately we dug ourselves too large of a hole at the start of conference play.

[WarriorDad]

Can't believe I'm going to do this, but without Cheeks I think the majority of positive posters have flown the coop since Saturday. See warriorchick's post. It would be a fairly one-sided place without his couple hundred posts since Seton Hall.

This place is miserable after losses.  I stay away from here usually because the toxic hate from the anti Wojo members isn’t worth it.  We are going to lose games, but now losses that are supposed to happen fuel some members.

[Ardmore Mug]

+1000    Staying away and the IGNORE list is your friend ! ! !   

[curbina]

You wanted him out with your very first post in 2015 claiming the program was in turmoil....then you were oddly quiet (under this username) until 2018...then went quiet again until last last year.

When presented with data last year to counter your claims, you said it was “talking heads” data (whatever that means) when it was actually data from Sagarin, Net, BPI, KenPom, and others.

Chico, that is incorrect. I made a post before or right after Wojo was hired stating that I thought he was a bad hire. Wojo has done nothing in the last five plus years to change my mind.

My argument last year has that MU basketball was not trending up at the end of regular season play! Trends can only be defined with respect to the time frame they are enclosed. I make my living drawing and understanding trend lines. Furthermore, I know the difference between a loser and a winner and when to cut my losses.

In closing, I don't feel the need to come to this site and repeat myself over and over. As I have stated before, I respect you as a person and your opinion. It just happens that my opinion is not the same as yours.

Regards,
curbina

[Jay Bee]

Defense wins. 

#FakeNews
#Lies

[WhoaJoe2020]

Chico, that is incorrect. I made a post before or right after Wojo was hired stating that I thought he was a bad hire. Wojo has done nothing in the last five plus years to change my mind.

My argument last year has that MU basketball was not trending up at the end of regular season play! Trends can only be defined with respect to the time frame they are enclosed.

These two paragraphs clearly demonstrate the problem.......

What we have here.... is failure to communicate.

A NoJo states they didn't like the Wojo hire from the start. They go on to say he has done NOTHING to change their mind in FIVE  PLUS YEARS.

The NoJo has set the timeframe for analyzing the trend concerning the trajectory of the program during Wojos tenure.

Using the timeframe the NoJo set,  another poster analyzes the data and accurately concludes that the program has trended in a positive direction within the timeframe set by the NoJo.
Seems fair, right??

This is where it gets confusing.....

The NoJo states that Wojo has done NOTHING in FIVE YEARS as part of their rationale in support of his removal as head coach. Then the NoJo states that only the short timeframe from the end of last year should be considered when determining which way the team has been trending during Wojos tenure.
Seems unfair, right??

If the NoJo had simply said they don't like the direction the program is heading after last years collapse, that would be fair, right??

All the hyperbole and exaggerations regarding Wojos record only serve to garble the message NoJos are trying to communicate.

I guess the captain was right.

[f/k/a humanlung]

#FakeNews
#Lies

#Not

https://www.breezejmu.org/sports/does-defense-win-ncaa-basketball-championships/article_edde0c66-261f-11e8-bc8a-5bf692f16fe2.html

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1567816-blueprint-of-an-ncaa-basketball-champion

https://www.vuhoops.com/villanova-basketball/2018/2/8/16986218/villanova-basketball-what-does-kenpom-tell-us-about-past-champions

[curbina]

These two paragraphs clearly demonstrate the problem.......

What we have here.... is failure to communicate.

A NoJo states they didn't like the Wojo hire from the start. They go on to say he has done NOTHING to change their mind in FIVE  PLUS YEARS.

The NoJo has set the timeframe for analyzing the trend concerning the trajectory of the program during Wojos tenure.

Using the timeframe the NoJo set,  another poster analyzes the data and accurately concludes that the program has trended in a positive direction within the timeframe set by the NoJo.
Seems fair, right??

This is where it gets confusing.....

The NoJo states that Wojo has done NOTHING in FIVE YEARS as part of their rationale in support of his removal as head coach. Then the NoJo states that only the short timeframe from the end of last year should be considered when determining which way the team has been trending during Wojos tenure.
Seems unfair, right??

If the NoJo had simply said they don't like the direction the program is heading after last years collapse, that would be fair, right??

All the hyperbole and exaggerations regarding Wojos record only serve to garble the message NoJos are trying to communicate.

I guess the captain was right.

Let be very clear, I want Wojo gone ASAP!

[Cheeks]

Overtime wins: IUPUI, Eastern Illinois, a 15-17 Arizona State, a 15-15 Georgetown.  Excluding these craps teams, we're 6-1. And there are good wins in there but these are examples that the team doesn't show up every game.

Excludind his first year, Wojo has the following records in Big East play:

8 - 10
10 - 8
9 - 9
12 - 6
1 - 3

Last year was a down year for the BE and I believe this is accepted as fact by most experts.  So we are 4 games over 500, due entirely to a weak conference last year.

We are 11 - 18 against ranked opponents over this same time.

This is what you consider acceptable after five years?

And again, thank you for reading my post and doing exactly what I thought you would do.

Arizona State that year was on a neutral court and they were 10-3 to start the season with losses to MU and Kentucky.  They had beaten NC State, Creighton, a top 20 Texas A&M team, and Belmont during that opening stretch.  There's a reason they won only 5 games after that 10-3 start....care to opine why?

Georgetown was an away, conference game. 

You and others said we don't play hard down the stretch....that is demonstrably false or we wouldn't be 10-1 in OT games, as well winning so many others. 

Let me ask you, what do YOU consider acceptable?  Take a look at all the teams in our league the last 5 years...how many of them have glowing Big East records?   

Going into this season and looking at the last four years, Marquette has the 4th most conference wins in the conference, which includes his second year which I still contend is a rebuilding year, but included anyway.  Nova first, Xavier, Seton Hall, then us. 

[Cheeks]

Ironic that you're the guy who wants higher academic standards.  When Jae Crowder gave my daughter an autograph it didn't look like this: "Two: Lil Lens"

[Cheeks]

Let be very clear, I want Wojo gone ASAP!

You always have.  In Feb of 2015 you said "Under Wojo's leadership Marquette basketball is now in complete turmoil! I suppose you could say that "you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" and it is now time to send Wojo back to Duke and hire an experienced basketball coach!"

Yet, we all know things got better rather quickly.  You then disappeared for 11 months and came back for one dip into the water...then disappeared again for two years, assuming you aren't using another username here.  Apparently, things weren't in turmoil and you were biting your tongue. 

So I would ask because you were so wrong then, why we should think you are right now?  Furthermore, who is replacing him? 

[WhoaJoe2020]

Let be very clear, I want Wojo gone ASAP!

Let be very clear??

[skianth16]

You always have.  In Feb of 2015 you said "Under Wojo's leadership Marquette basketball is now in complete turmoil! I suppose you could say that "you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" and it is now time to send Wojo back to Duke and hire an experienced basketball coach!"

Yet, we all know things got better rather quickly.  You then disappeared for 11 months and came back for one dip into the water...then disappeared again for two years, assuming you aren't using another username here.  Apparently, things weren't in turmoil and you were biting your tongue. 

So I would ask because you were so wrong then, why we should think you are right now?  Furthermore, who is replacing him?

This kind of personal vendetta garbage ruins the boards. The references to arguments from years ago and past slights are completely unnecessary and add no value here. Be an adult and learn to just ignore dissenting opinions sometimes. This is ridiculous. Quoting a post from 5 years ago? Move on, bro.

[Cheeks]

This kind of personal vendetta garbage ruins the boards. The references to arguments from years ago and past slights are completely unnecessary and add no value here. Be an adult and learn to just ignore dissenting opinions sometimes. This is ridiculous. Quoting a post from 5 years ago? Move on, bro.

It's not a personal vendetta at all, there are some people that have always not wanted him and how is that not germane to the conversation?  NeverWojoer who hid for most years when things were going well, but comes out of the woodwork to pile on? 

But if that is going to be the case and no one's past words are allowed...fine...then apply it equally to all posters. 

[curbina]

It's not a personal vendetta at all, there are some people that have always not wanted him and how is that not germane to the conversation?  NeverWojoer who hid for most years when things were going well, but comes out of the woodwork to pile on? 

But if that is going to be the case and no one's past words are allowed...fine...then apply it equally to all posters.

Chico, You need to take a break from this board, it’s driving you crazy!

[WhoaJoe2020]

This kind of personal vendetta garbage ruins the boards. The references to arguments from years ago and past slights are completely unnecessary and add no value here. Be an adult and learn to just ignore dissenting opinions sometimes. This is ridiculous. Quoting a post from 5 years ago? Move on, bro.

If what he says is true it's pretty relevant. It's similar to what warriorchick posted about those showing up after losses and carpet bombing the board with negative comments. If the only time you care enough to comment about the team is after a loss,  well.......... WTAF

[curbina]

If what he says is true it's pretty relevant. It's similar to what warriorchick posted about those showing up after losses and carpet bombing the board with negative comments. If the only time you care enough to comment about the team is after a loss,  well.......... WTAF

WhoaJoe2020, am I getting under your skin? I love jerking your chain!

[Cheeks]

Chico, You need to take a break from this board, it’s driving you crazy!

It's an escape....I have so many other real-world things that do make me crazy, allowing for 20 minutes in the morning on Scoop and an hour at night to get away from the real world craziness.....this is therapy. 

[Keithtisbarf]

Chico, You need to take a break from this board, it’s driving you crazy!

+1000000000000000000000000 hahahahaha

[WhoaJoe2020]

WhoaJoe2020, am I getting under your skin? I love jerking your chain!

If what Cheeks says is true, I wouldn't be surprised if you have a bit of a sadistic streak........

[curbina]

If what Cheeks says is true, I wouldn't be surprised if you have a bit of a sadistic streak........

It’s WhoaJoe, just pull his chain and watch him go!