Markus GOAT

[dgies9156]

earl tatum was great, but imho. Markus has passed him on that list. Earl averaged 12 points a game and never shot over 50%.

Brother Dawg:

I understand your thought on this one. Tatum played with some of the truly greatest Warriors. He never over 12 points because, as I am sure you recall, we never scored much over 60 in those games. Our game was deliberate, no shot clocks and no there point lines.

The game is different now. I can see the argument for Markus vis a vi Tatum but Tatum played better defense and was part of a national runner up.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

If you are basing it on tournament success, Dwyane Wade would have won ZERO tournament games if Marquette didn't sneak by Holy Cross thanks to 29 points from Travis Diener.

Just saying.

"If" just saying

[4everwarriors]

Howard will make money somewhere after MU playing ball. Nice player, too bad he doesn't have another 6 inches. But, he isn't in the conversation with #24, #14, #15, #22, #3, #31, #20, or even #10.

[real chili 83]

Howard will make money somewhere after MU playing ball. Nice player, too bad he doesn't have another 6 inches. But, he isn't in the conversation with #24, #14, #15, #22, #3, #31, #20, or even #10.

I question your fandom.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Only player in last 20 years with multiple 50 point games.

Has three of the four 50 point games in Big East history.

Along with Pete Maravich and Wayman Tisdale as only players in NCAA history with a 50 point game in three straight years.

Passed the Orlando Invitational three day scoring record of 73 in only two days with 91.

Unsubscribe.

[4everwarriors]

Thanks, Rock

[TallTitan34]

Howard will make money somewhere after MU playing ball. Nice player, too bad he doesn't have another 6 inches. But, he isn't in the conversation with #24, #14, #15, #22, #3, #31, #20, or even #10.

Ok boomer.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Howard will make money somewhere after MU playing ball. Nice player, too bad he doesn't have another 6 inches. But, he isn't in the conversation with #24, #14, #15, #22, #3, #31, #20, or even #10.

Another 6" and you could be making money on xhamster.

[Heisenberg]

Dwyane is a solid choice, but it's probably not fair to compare his tournament success with that of Markus.  Wade had two other NBA players along with him on that Final Four run,  and that team doesn't survive the first weekend without huge contributions from both. Markus has not been blessed with the quality of teammates as DWade.

Anyone who says Markus makes his teammates worse is a bona fide moron.

I believe that two brothers from Steven's Point said this.

[Goose]

ZFB

Nice xhamster shout out.

[warriorchick]

There is a choice missing:

Potentially. Let's see how this season plays out.

[1SE]

There is a choice missing:

Potentially. Let's see how this season plays out.

Isn't that the "deep tourney run"? If we flame out in the first row (or miss) I didn't think a year where he just piles on points would change anyone's mind (who either does or doesn't think he is GOAT).

I was born in the early 80s so most of the other GOATers are before my time and I can't really compare, but I was also at MU during the Wade years and I can't see how anyone thinks Markus is "miles behind" Wade. I brought this up last time we had this discussion but look at their stats...

Wade: Career 49.4% FG, 33.3% 3pt, 6.5 reb, 3.9 ast, 2.3 st, 1.2 blk, 3.1 to, 19.7 ppg.

Markus: Career 45.3% FG, 43.7% 3pt, 3.1 reb, 3.0 ast, 0.9 st, 0.1 blk, 3.1 to, 20.3 ppg.

So basically Wade was 3.5 rebounds, an assist, a steal and a block better. Markus is a much better 3-ball shooter. But as others have noted, I also think longevity matters. And again, Wade had a better supporting cast. All in all I think those numbers are mostly a wash.

What Wade has was the FF run and, arguably, the single greatest MU performance of all time. If Markus can conjure up something similar in the tourney this year I'd say they are on par. 

[Mutaman]

The next folks in line after Wade for GOAT are Butch Lee and Bo Ellis, Maurice Lucas, George Thompson, Jim Chones, Earl Tatum.

Meminger: 78-9 record over his career including a 46-0 mark at the Milwaukee Arena. Lets get serious.

[Jockey]

Howard will make money somewhere after MU playing ball. Nice player, too bad he doesn't have another 6 inches. But, he isn't in the conversation with #24, #14, #15, #22, #3, #31, #20, or even #10.

Utter nonsense.

Of course it depends if you are looking at their entire career - including NBA - or just their time at MU. I thought the premise was their time at MU.

Anybody who doesn't think Wade is the greatest that MU has produced is nuts. It's a slam dunk. But for just their time at MU? Markus can easily claim to be in the running for #1. Had Chones stayed for 3 years, I think he would be a lock for #1.

[goldeneagle91114]

Couldn't win the Big East conference regular season title last year (it was handed to them in a silver platter) and still has 0 NCAA tournament wins. The kid can score know doubt. However truly GREAT players win championships... Howard hasn't even come close.

[Jockey]

Meminger: 78-9 record over his career including a 46-0 mark at the Milwaukee Arena. Lets get serious.

Dean was a great college player. But ... he was the best player on MU only 1 of his 3 years. And still a top 5 guy.

[Jockey]

Couldn't win the Big East conference regular season title last year (it was handed to them in a silver platter) and still has 0 NCAA tournament wins. The kid can score know doubt. However truly GREAT players win championships... Howard hasn't even come close.

So you are saying that Lee and Ellis are the only true great players from MU's long history? Sounds crazy to me.

[Elonsmusk]

Markus in my Top 5, with relevant grading back to 1980.  What people fail to consider is the caliber of the MU coach.  In my view, Wojo is easily the weakest MU coach out of Al, Crean, Buzz, and its not even close.

If Markus were coached by any of the above guys, I suspect he'd have 4-8 NCAA wins already on his resume.

[WarriorFan]

I look at it as a lifetime body of work and I'm willing to keep Markus on the waiting list depending on how he proceeds in life.  For now D.Wade remains the MU GOAT, and there are a lot of guys close which make even the top 10 difficult.

[Cheeks]

Meminger: 78-9 record over his career including a 46-0 mark at the Milwaukee Arena. Lets get serious.

For ancient people like Mutaman, he will say Meminger.

For mid age guys, probably Wade

Younger fans will say Markus.

[Jay Bee]

Wade: Career 49.4% FG, 33.3% 3pt, 6.5 reb, 3.9 ast, 2.3 st, 1.2 blk, 3.1 to, 19.7 ppg.

Markus: Career 45.3% FG, 43.7% 3pt, 3.1 reb, 3.0 ast, 0.9 st, 0.1 blk, 3.1 to, 20.3 ppg.

FG% is not relevant and per game averages aren't really, either.

Fun numbers... eFG%.. Markus 56.7% career.. Wade.. 51.1% career.. both with ultra-high usages.

Another fun number... in year 1, Markus had a FD/40 of 3.7 and a FTR of 23.4%.. year 2, 4.2 and 21.8%

Before the 2018-19 season, we noted at http://latenighthoops.com/quick-random-preseason-thoughts-on-marquette/#.XeMSjFVKjIU that, "There are two other areas where we believe Markus can make meaningful improvements....The second is getting to the line. His brother Jordan (at Central Arkansas) continued to improve each year at drawing fouls and getting to the free throw stripe, and we believe this is a year where Markus can make a nice jump. Much of the improvement will come from Howard being a relentless worker, but he may also get an edge from being viewed as a respected, veteran star in the Big East by referees instead of a young, undersized guard."

In year 3, he was at 7.2 (#5 in the nation) and 42.5%. This year, 9.3 (#1) and 51.4%. Simply amazing.

[goldeneagle91114]

So you are saying that Lee and Ellis are the only true great players from MU's long history? Sounds crazy to me.

Ok, how about multiple sweet 16s or an elite 8?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Markus is a special player and we are lucky to witness his accomplishments.

Scoring more points wont improve that sentiment across the fan base...and I bet he knows that. 

[4everwarriors]

If I told Brandy the sky was blue, he'd dispute it. Just sayin', hey?

[The Sultan]

Nm