Markus GOAT

[rocket surgeon]

Another 6" and you could be making money on xhamster.

   ouchie!!

enjoyed watching all of the aforementioned fellas.  for the size(no pun intended) of our school and our ability to recruit against the big boys(once again, no pun intended) MU sure has put out some good ones

ok, commence

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I love Markus. Probably makes my top 10, maybe top 5. He's nowhere near Wade at the moment IMHO.

Only way Markus gets there is if he Kemba Walkers us to the championship game

[The Sultan]

A lot of romanticism with some of the older players here. Al would have loved Markus.

[Jockey]

I look at it as a lifetime body of work and I'm willing to keep Markus on the waiting list depending on how he proceeds in life.  For now D.Wade remains the MU GOAT, and there are a lot of guys close which make even the top 10 difficult.

I think you and many others look at it as a lifetime. Wade is undeniably first from that viewpoint. I was looking at it as just the time they were at MU.

But every player mentioned had a better supporting cast than Markus.

[Eldon]

I love Markus. Probably makes my top 10, maybe top 5. He's nowhere near Wade at the moment IMHO.

Only way Markus gets there is if he Kemba Walkers us to the championship game

+1

Fair or not (e.g., needing to consider quality of the coach), it's all about the Ws, and especially Ws in March.

Before anyone responds with "crapshoot," let me say that Ws in the regular season lead to a higher seed, which increases the probability of rolling a 7 or 11 at the table.

[dgies9156]

Meminger: 78-9 record over his career including a 46-0 mark at the Milwaukee Arena. Lets get serious.

OK, first off, I'm an older Warrior. I have seen everyone from Meminger to Markus. From Thompson to Theo.

You're probably right, Dean the Dream should be on the all-time GOAT list. He was Al's quarterback.

Here's a novel thought: Let's enjoy Markus while we have him. Cheer him on, hope for the best and be thankful we have experienced him for four years. Hopefully, he and the NCAA second round introduce themselves to each other. But either way, he is fun to watch and a great ballplayer.

And yes, this Warrior would agree: Al would have loved him!

[MU82]

If we get to the FF this year, for some Scoopers it'll be, "Wojo and Markus only get to the easy Final Fours. The Hausers would have done it better, especially if they were coached by Al."

[The Sultan]

Crean got to a final four and some Scoopers think he's the Antichrist.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Crean got to a final four and some Scoopers think he's the Antichrist.

No just a complete d bag n a very odd human being with the personality of a tennis ball

[Lennys Tap]

A lot of romanticism with some of the older players here. Al would have loved Markus.

I don't think players like Meminger, Chones, Bo, Mo and Butch Lee are being romanticized at all. They were complete players, and all but Butch were outstanding on both ends of the court.

Markus is an elite shooter/scorer. When he's hitting on all cylinders he's on a par with DWade as MU's most exciting player.  But he's an average at best passer, his handle is loose and he's below average on defense. On nights when his shot isn't falling he has little (sometimes less than little) to contribute. One skill, even when it's off the charts, doesn't put him in the GOAT conversation for me - I think he's the one being a little romanticized.

Al would have loved him when he was announcing. He loved "exciting" from the booth. But as a coach Al was a dictator who valued discipline. Those head down drives through the trees resulting in blocked shots/turnovers just wouldn't have been tolerated by Al.

[Shooter McGavin]

There is a choice missing:

Potentially. Let's see how this season plays out.

This is correct.  We need to see how this season plays out.   A final four on the back of Markus and even the 70s boys will agree he is at least top five (national championship and he's the GOAT). If they don't at that point, we'll excuse it as early dementia.

However, I do not consider a final four likely and tournament success is important when talking about the "greats from MU".

He will be in my top ten regardless for obliterating the scoring record and for potentially being the Big East's all time leading scorer.  I understand why others might not feel that way now.  I feel ten years from now people will look on his career less harshly.

[Lennys Tap]

If we get to the FF this year, for some Scoopers it'll be, "Wojo and Markus only get to the easy Final Fours. The Hausers would have done it better, especially if they were coached by Al."

Cheap shot, Mike.

On a par with saying If we finish last in the Big East this year for some Scoopers it'll be, "Howard's the GOAT, Big East was a bear this year, just wait until next year when Wojo gets to coach his Fab 5 - he'll make us forget about Al".

Both preposterous.

[Lennys Tap]

No just a complete d bag n a very odd human being with the personality of a tennis ball

Pay the man, Shirley!

[Cheeks]

No just a complete d bag n a very odd human being with the personality of a tennis ball

Could say the same thing about Buzz, who didn't get to the Final Four and looks like a tennis ball.

[Goose]

TAMU

If Howard pulls off a Kemba, it would not change my opinion of Howard's place in history. My criteria is not necessarily based off individual games or seasons, it is based off the overall collection of skills the player possesses, ball IQ and athleticism. Howard scoring 50 a game this season does not overcome his shortcomings, IMO.
Would add, it would be a helluva of a season and story to tell our grandkids, but it seems unlikely to me.

[1SE]

Could say the same thing about Buzz, who didn't get to the Final Four and looks like a tennis ball.

This is funny. One out of 4160 posts ain't bad.

[The Sultan]

I don't think players like Meminger, Chones, Bo, Mo and Butch Lee are being romanticized at all. They were complete players, and all but Butch were outstanding on both ends of the court.

Markus is an elite shooter/scorer. When he's hitting on all cylinders he's on a par with DWade as MU's most exciting player.  But he's an average at best passer, his handle is loose and he's below average on defense. On nights when his shot isn't falling he has little (sometimes less than little) to contribute. One skill, even when it's off the charts, doesn't put him in the GOAT conversation for me - I think he's the one being a little romanticized.

Al would have loved him when he was announcing. He loved "exciting" from the booth. But as a coach Al was a dictator who valued discipline. Those head down drives through the trees resulting in blocked shots/turnovers just wouldn't have been tolerated by Al.

As I said - over romanticized.  Markus is a first team All American player.  An elite scorer who is nowhere near as difficient as you portray him.  He would have been great in any Marquette era.

[The Sultan]

TAMU

If Howard pulls off a Kemba, it would not change my opinion of Howard's place in history.

LOL, what?  If he doesn't single handedly lead MU to a title it would keep MH out of your top ten all time?

It's 2019.  Not 1972.  It's time to wake up.

[Shooter McGavin]

Goose be careful about making declarative statements for which you will need to back peddle on later.  If Markus were to lead MU to a final four or championship it would be so obvious that he would be top 5 you would have to dig yourself out of a cavernous hole. Having said that, I do understand it is probably not going to happen and you are on firm ground for now.  NCAA success is very important when discussing the greats.  It just a fact of NCAA life.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

If Howard pulls off a Kemba, it would not change my opinion of Howard's place in history. My criteria is not necessarily based off individual games or seasons, it is based off the overall collection of skills the player possesses, ball IQ and athleticism. Howard scoring 50 a game this season does not overcome his shortcomings, IMO.
Would add, it would be a helluva of a season and story to tell our grandkids, but it seems unlikely to me.

So does performance not actually matter?  Just your eye test? That's fine if it does,  I just think we are having different conversations.

[🏀]

Man, if these guys from the 70s were such complete players with the highest IQs, often played on the same teams and led by the best coach off all-time, you'd think they would've won more, aina?

[The Sultan]

To be fair, the players of the 1970s have two things Markus doesn't have.  An elite level coach and elite level teammates.  What NBA-quality teammates does Markus have on this team?  Right now, I don't see any.  Sam and Joey could have been, but you know, they wrote letters.  A coach like Al would have handled that issue better than Wojo did.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It just a fact of NCAA life sports.

FIFY

[🏀]

To be fair, the players of the 1970s have two things Markus doesn't have.  An elite level coach and elite level teammates.  What NBA-quality teammates does Markus have on this team?  Right now, I don't see any.  Sam and Joey could have been, but you know, they wrote letters.  A coach like Al would have handled that issue better than Wojo did.

The Joey v. Al fist fight wouldn't have lasted long, vanilla soft serve.

[TallTitan34]

Man, if these guys from the 70s were such complete players with the highest IQs, often played on the same teams and led by the best coach off all-time, you'd think they would've won more, aina?

I think Al's ego cost Marquette a second National Championship.