Investing Thread

[MU82]

Wow, the emails and other communications between Boeing employees concerning the 737 Max are damning.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-737max/boeing-releases-internal-messages-on-737-max-calls-them-completely-unacceptable-idUSKBN1Z902N?il=0

In an instant messaging exchange on Feb. 8, 2018 - when the plane was in the air and eight months before the first of two fatal crashes, an employee asks another: “Would you put your family on a MAX simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn’t”.

And in a May 2018 message, an unnamed Boeing employee said: “I still haven’t been forgiven by god for the covering up I did last year.”

Etc etc

Frankly, it is incredible that Boeing stock has not tanked by 50% or more. I am very glad I sold mine at around $400. I usually shrug at "noise," but this company is surrounded by more than just noise, and I didn't need the day-to-day drama in my portfolio.

Bigger picture, I feel terrible for the families whose lives have been ruined by this company.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Smart trade 82.

I had someone pitch Boeing to me over the summer with the premise that it would bounce back once the MAX issues were fixed.  My response was "let's see them fix the engineering issues FIRST".

Looks like the bad engineering was a feature, not a bug.

[MU82]

It certainly could bounce back. Indeed, I would imagine that when it all finally is fixed, it will.

But how low can it go first?

More than that, does an investor have the willingness to monitor such a company in his/her portfolio and the patience to deal with the constant drumbeat of bad news?

I am a long-term investor, generally a buy-and-holdish kind of guy. I had BA since early 2016, bought it at $115. I decided a few months back that I no longer "needed" BA so I took my profits.

FWIW, my daughter, who bought BA around the same time I did (at an even better price -- 110), is still holding. She HATES selling anything, and that generally has made for very nice performance of her portfolio.

[Benny B]

Wow, the emails and other communications between Boeing employees concerning the 737 Max are damning.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-737max/boeing-releases-internal-messages-on-737-max-calls-them-completely-unacceptable-idUSKBN1Z902N?il=0

In an instant messaging exchange on Feb. 8, 2018 - when the plane was in the air and eight months before the first of two fatal crashes, an employee asks another: “Would you put your family on a MAX simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn’t”.

And in a May 2018 message, an unnamed Boeing employee said: “I still haven’t been forgiven by god for the covering up I did last year.”

C'mon 82... you're a freakin' journalist.  I know you can see past through the BS and misdirection.

“Would you put your family on a MAX simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn’t”

Ask yourself this: Why would they train the aircraft in a simulator?  Hell, how would they fit the airplane into the simulator?

FFS, these are engineers... they have their own language that cannot be taken at face value by a layperson.  What is most likely being said here is either:

a) "Would you put your family in a plane flown by a crew without training in the MAX simulator"  -or-
b) "Would you put your family in a plane flown by a crew who has only trained in the MAX simulator (i.e. has not actually flown the plane IRL"

Both of the above are fair questions.  Both of the above could be cause for concern to some people.  But neither suggests that something is wrong... some people simply have a fear of flying, even aerospace engineers (yes, there are actually aviation enthusiasts who have a fear of flying, imagine that).

Hell, we don't even know what the author's role is.  But what we do know is the FAA doesn't require simulator training at all (this will likely be changed).   In fact, most airlines don't even have a MAX simulator.

In any event, this text is - at best - being taken out of context or - at worst - a deep fake.  Along with the "God hasn't forgiven me for covering up" text.  Covering what up?  That you stole someone's diabetic lunch from the cafeteria?  That you gang-banged your wife's cousin?  That you saw a co-worker piss in the water cooler?

Garbage in, garbage out.





Full Disclaimer: I closed all positions in BA completely several months ago.  I won't go back in until the MAX is re-certified, I already have enough exposure to this shiiteshow with my GE positions.

[MU82]

C'mon 82... you're a freakin' journalist.  I know you can see past through the BS and misdirection.

“Would you put your family on a MAX simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn’t”

Ask yourself this: Why would they train the aircraft in a simulator?  Hell, how would they fit the airplane into the simulator?

FFS, these are engineers... they have their own language that cannot be taken at face value by a layperson.  What is most likely being said here is either:

a) "Would you put your family in a plane flown by a crew without training in the MAX simulator"  -or-
b) "Would you put your family in a plane flown by a crew who has only trained in the MAX simulator (i.e. has not actually flown the plane IRL"

Both of the above are fair questions.  Both of the above could be cause for concern to some people.  But neither suggests that something is wrong... some people simply have a fear of flying, even aerospace engineers (yes, there are actually aviation enthusiasts who have a fear of flying, imagine that).

Hell, we don't even know what the author's role is.  But what we do know is the FAA doesn't require simulator training at all (this will likely be changed).   In fact, most airlines don't even have a MAX simulator.

In any event, this text is - at best - being taken out of context or - at worst - a deep fake.  Along with the "God hasn't forgiven me for covering up" text.  Covering what up?  That you stole someone's diabetic lunch from the cafeteria?  That you gang-banged your wife's cousin?  That you saw a co-worker piss in the water cooler?

Garbage in, garbage out.





Full Disclaimer: I closed all positions in BA completely several months ago.  I won't go back in until the MAX is re-certified, I already have enough exposure to this shiiteshow with my GE positions.

OK.

[Cheeks]

Wow, the emails and other communications between Boeing employees concerning the 737 Max are damning.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-737max/boeing-releases-internal-messages-on-737-max-calls-them-completely-unacceptable-idUSKBN1Z902N?il=0

In an instant messaging exchange on Feb. 8, 2018 - when the plane was in the air and eight months before the first of two fatal crashes, an employee asks another: “Would you put your family on a MAX simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn’t”.

And in a May 2018 message, an unnamed Boeing employee said: “I still haven’t been forgiven by god for the covering up I did last year.”

Etc etc

Frankly, it is incredible that Boeing stock has not tanked by 50% or more. I am very glad I sold mine at around $400. I usually shrug at "noise," but this company is surrounded by more than just noise, and I didn't need the day-to-day drama in my portfolio.

Bigger picture, I feel terrible for the families whose lives have been ruined by this company.

Ironically when an employee of American Airlines, a mechanic, tried to sabotage a plane and was asked by law enforcement of he would allow his family members on the plane (he said no) that wasn’t so damning by some here.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Take your crap elsewhere and don't get another investing thread shut down.

[WarriorDad]

Wayfair stock. 

Poised to make a comeback in 2020? 

[MU82]

The person I really feel terrible for is the former Boeing CEO.

In addition to knowing he played a role in the deaths of hundreds of people, he has to get by on a departure package of only about $62 million.

[Jay Bee]

The person I really feel terrible for is the former Boeing CEO.

In addition to knowing he played a role in the deaths of hundreds of people, he has to get by on a departure package of only about $62 million.

#FakeNews
#Lies

The $62 million is NOT a departure package. Complete and total lie.

[MU82]

#FakeNews
#Lies

The $62 million is NOT a departure package. Complete and total lie.

https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-muilenburg-payout-same-time-thousands-layoffs-2020-1

The recently-fired CEO of Boeing is leaving the company with a package worth $62 million, the company said Friday — just hours after 2,800 workers lost their jobs over the 737 Max disaster.

Payout details for Dennis Muilenburg, who was ousted from Boeing in late December, were made public in a filing with the US Securities and Exchange Commission.

Muilenburg lost his job over Boeing's disastrous handling of two fatal crashes by the 737 Max in which 346 people died.

The jet was grounded ten months ago, in March 2019. It has no firm date to return to service and Boeing has stopped building new ones.

On his departure, Boeing stripped him of his bonus, any severance pay, and other incentives worth nearly $15 million.

However, that still left him with a parting package of $62 million made up of Boeing stock, pension payments, and other deferred contributions.

[Jay Bee]

Yes, that is completely false. There is no $62 milliion departing package. Read SEC filings, understand what they mean, and understand that journalists are dumb.

[Golden Avalanche]

Yes, that is completely false. There is no $62 milliion departing package. Read SEC filings, understand what they mean, and understand that journalists are dumb.

What do they mean?

[Jay Bee]

What do they mean?

It means no departing package.

[Benny B]

What do they mean?

Not 100% certain, but these things aren’t always a golden parachutes or severance.... it could be stock or options awards that vest or exercise after a given period of time or upon departure (whichever occurs first); less likely, could be an automatic sale of stock (or election to sell after a lockout expires); it could be deferred or unpaid compensation, etc. 

In other words, the $62M was likely already earned and is simply being  :'(converted to cash when he departs

[MU82]

It means no departing package.

He departed. He's getting $62 million.

But if you want, you don't have to use them in the same sentence.

#semanticsRfun

[Jay Bee]

He departed. He's getting $62 million.

But if you want, you don't have to use them in the same sentence.

#semanticsRfun

No, he's not "getting $62 million". 

Let's say when you got laid off, before that happened... 5 years prior, you made contributions of your own money to a deferred comp plan. Now, you get fired. Because of that, your contribution from 5 years ago to the plan is distributed to you.

You call that "getting" the money as part of a 'departing package'?

Nonsense.

He got what he had already earned contractually. Nada else. Stop the lies!

[MU82]

No, he's not "getting $62 million". 

Let's say when you got laid off, before that happened... 5 years prior, you made contributions of your own money to a deferred comp plan. Now, you get fired. Because of that, your contribution from 5 years ago to the plan is distributed to you.

You call that "getting" the money as part of a 'departing package'?

Nonsense.

He got what he had already earned contractually. Nada else. Stop the lies!

I hope he'll have enough to feed Latrell Sprewell's family.

[Cheeks]

No, he's not "getting $62 million". 

Let's say when you got laid off, before that happened... 5 years prior, you made contributions of your own money to a deferred comp plan. Now, you get fired. Because of that, your contribution from 5 years ago to the plan is distributed to you.

You call that "getting" the money as part of a 'departing package'?

Nonsense.

He got what he had already earned contractually. Nada else. Stop the lies!

Correct, but details don’t matter when it is a chance to take a shot.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

TCOM (a China travel company) is down 9.5% today solely on concerns around the Asian flu. Contrarian trade opportunity IMO.

[JWags85]

Wheels off on BA.  All the bad news had it teetering, this Asian flu effects on travel has pushed it off the edge.  Can't remember the last time Ive seen a Dow Jones stock halted.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Would strongly encourage all to get into AMRN, ASAP - as in Monday.  I put 50% of my portfolio into it back in July and used another 25% to buy the dips the last 5 months for dollar cost average of $18 per share.

AMRN's Vascepa will revolutionize the way we treat heart disease, diabetes, strokes, and potentially dementia.

Other strong biotech play:  IGMS

Stock I took a flier on and kind of like is WRTC.

FYI, recent write up (note that the firm is long AMRN)
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4317936-amarins-multiple-positives-and-news-good-bad-and-ugly-of-biopharma

"Amarin Corporation PLC (AMRN) is currently on a roll as the company is gearing up for the expanded market launch of its potential blockbuster drug Vascepa, which is now the only drug approved in the United States for lowering the risk of cardiovascular events in conjunction with statin therapy. It is estimated that the drug may touch the peak sales volume of $3-4 billion a year. However, after certain developments in the market, some analysts are thinking that the drug may be able to garner even higher revenue.

While Vascepa received its product label expansion in December, further increasing its market reach, the drug was given another positive fillip recently as competitor AstraZeneca (AZN) reported shelving trials for its Epanova drug candidate. The decision is not only going to cost the company to the tune of $100 million in write-offs but has also opened up a wider market for Amarin's Vascepa. Epanova was being touted as a strong rival to Vascepa and was expected to be a major player in the fish oil drug market. With Epanova out of the scene, Vascepa does not have any significant competition in the market.

Epanova is for treating high TG levels in adult patients suffering from hypertriglyceridemia. Had the company been successful with its now-abandoned STRENGTH study, it would have been able to market the drug to a wider market with label expansion.

Similarly, Amarin received another positive push as Acasti Pharma Inc. (ACST) also posted negative developments regarding its CaPre drug candidate. The company reported that a phase 3 trial of the drug failed to meet its endpoint, which was of the reduction of triglycerides by 20% in comparison to placebo. The trial showed that the median triglyceride reduction in patients taking CaPre was 30.5% and the corresponding reduction in the placebo arm was 27.5 percent. Thus, the drug failed to make a significant reduction in TG levels, leading to the failure of the trial."

[MU82]

Several WFC execs, including the fired CEO, got fined a collective $59 million for their roles in the fake-accounts scandal. Talk about getting a slap on the wrist.

All of these guys became multi-multi-multi-millionaires, socked away the dough for years by cheating customers and screwing shareholders. Fining one of them $10 million would be like fining one of us $10. Except we'd miss the $10 more.

They are thieves, this was a capital crime, and they should have done serious time. Instead, they were fined a pittance.

[StillAWarrior]

They are thieves, this was a capital crime, and they should have done serious time. Instead, they were fined a pittance.

Not sure if you were making a pun here, or if you really believe that theft is a "capital crime."  The punishment you're advocating seems to suggest not.

/Not disagreeing with your underlying point...I was just struck by the double meaning of the word "capital" when I read it.

[MU82]

Not sure if you were making a pun here, or if you really believe that theft is a "capital crime."  The punishment you're advocating seems to suggest not.

/Not disagreeing with your underlying point...I was just struck by the double meaning of the word "capital" when I read it.

Yeah, I didn't mean a capital offense. Dopey wording on my part. Should have said "serious crime" -- deserving of jail time.

They are thieves, and they ruined countless lives. But thank goodness they were fined, so now each of them only has a few yachts instead of 6 or 8.