Well that was a waste

[Lennys Tap]

By the way, there are a number that aren’t publicly defending the actions but have already PM’d me saying what he did was perfectly fine, they just don’t want to get called out by the mob here that will judge them and sentence them to Dante’s inferno.  Up to them if they wish to state it, but I suspect most will not because it isn’t worth the attacks.  My two cents.

The way past prominent people are vilified by some here for actions they took years ago, I’m a little surprised by the silence.  At any rate, I loved Al, enjoyed working with him, he was not perfect nor are any of us.  He did something that I don’t think was a big deal, others disagree.  That’s fine...we just disagree.  I do find it odd how outraged some get when others do it, but how church mouse quiet the outrage is with our own...but ok. 

Al rolling around the locker room with talented but immature Bernard Toone happened more than 42 years ago. Not Al's finest moment by a long shot, but that sort of stuff wasn't uncommon in 1977 and was met with a shrug or even a smile back then. I actually agree with you that those who don't view this sort of thing in context are unfair and dead wrong. Corporal punishment - by parents, teachers, coaches, etc., - was viewed differently and it's not fair to brand people based on today's standards.

That said, today's standards are much better for all involved - adults and children. Anybody who doesn't believe that is romanticizing or justifying behavior that isn't acceptable any more. Today (thankfully) that kind of stuff is just wrong.

[Pakuni]

Uhm, I think you missed the linkage.  Let me help

500 economists said so in a study, thus it must be true

A child psychologist said so in a study, so it must be true.

Coach K says players should be paid for their likeness, so it must be true.

Nobody has said these things, but you.
And you still don't know what appeal to authority is.

[4everwarriors]

Lenny man, I agree with you and Al's fuse was running short. As we know, Al was the master psychologist and he used that moment in Omaha to jumpstart his talented, but underperforming squad. In the very next game vs K-State in Oklahoma City, which MU barely won, Al went off again, as only Al could do, on the NCAA after the game claiming the refs were out to get him.
God bless America and that man. Had the best mouth I've ever heard.

[Cheeks]

Al rolling around the locker room with talented but immature Bernard Toone happened more than 42 years ago. Not Al's finest moment by a long shot, but that sort of stuff wasn't uncommon in 1977 and was met with a shrug or even a smile back then. I actually agree with you that those who don't view this sort of thing in context are unfair and dead wrong. Corporal punishment - by parents, teachers, coaches, etc., - was viewed differently and it's not fair to brand people based on today's standards.

That said, today's standards are much better for all involved - adults and children. Anybody who doesn't believe that is romanticizing or justifying behavior that isn't acceptable any more. Today (thankfully) that kind of stuff is just wrong.

That’s fair...for the most part.  Glad you semi-allowed for the actions by implicating Toone’s immaturity as a reason why Al did what he did.   

In the end, Al gets a pass from me.  I think his intent was just.  And yes, I think there are situations today that would also allow for it.  We will agree to disagree.  For you old timers, you got a natty because of his actions...per comments from the team, and Al.  Maybe some of you think it is tainted.  I don’t.  Sometimes nothing else works, and HOLY CRAP just got real moment gets everyone pointed in the same direction.   Glad he did it.  Glad to have known him.  I’m sure he regrets some of the hitting incident, but his intent was true.

God Bless Al

Go Warriors

[Uncle Rico]

Al rolling around the locker room with talented but immature Bernard Toone happened more than 42 years ago. Not Al's finest moment by a long shot, but that sort of stuff wasn't uncommon in 1977 and was met with a shrug or even a smile back then. I actually agree with you that those who don't view this sort of thing in context are unfair and dead wrong. Corporal punishment - by parents, teachers, coaches, etc., - was viewed differently and it's not fair to brand people based on today's standards.

That said, today's standards are much better for all involved - adults and children. Anybody who doesn't believe that is romanticizing or justifying behavior that isn't acceptable any more. Today (thankfully) that kind of stuff is just wrong.

This sums it up quite well.  We can romanticize Al while still admitting there is no place for behavior like that in today’s world.  The two are not mutually exclusive. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Al rolling around the locker room with talented but immature Bernard Toone happened more than 42 years ago. Not Al's finest moment by a long shot, but that sort of stuff wasn't uncommon in 1977 and was met with a shrug or even a smile back then. I actually agree with you that those who don't view this sort of thing in context are unfair and dead wrong. Corporal punishment - by parents, teachers, coaches, etc., - was viewed differently and it's not fair to brand people based on today's standards.

That said, today's standards are much better for all involved - adults and children. Anybody who doesn't believe that is romanticizing or justifying behavior that isn't acceptable any more. Today (thankfully) that kind of stuff is just wrong.

That’s exactly right. I don’t think anyone is vilifying him for what he did.

[Cheeks]

This sums it up quite well.  We can romanticize Al while still admitting there is no place for behavior like that in today’s world.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

“The turning point was when me and Al had our physical confrontation in the first game (of the NCAA tournament)," Toone said. "That gave us a sense of purpose. After that, we settled down as a team. He left me alone, and we all just played."



Glad Al and Bernard knew what it was all about...no malice...God Bless Bernard, Al and America.

[Newsdreams]

I guess there is a group that thinks unicorns, gumdrops and rainbows are right around the corner.

And I have told you, seek help.

[Newsdreams]

Agreed. The biggest problem today is that we do not burn enough suspected witches at the stake.

Witch hunt, hey?

[jesmu84]

That’s fair...for the most part.  Glad you semi-allowed for the actions by implicating Toone’s immaturity as a reason why Al did what he did.   

In the end, Al gets a pass from me.  I think his intent was just.  And yes, I think there are situations today that would also allow for it.  We will agree to disagree.  For you old timers, you got a natty because of his actions...per comments from the team, and Al.  Maybe some of you think it is tainted.  I don’t.  Sometimes nothing else works, and HOLY CRAP just got real moment gets everyone pointed in the same direction.   Glad he did it.  Glad to have known him.  I’m sure he regrets some of the hitting incident, but his intent was true.

God Bless Al

Go Warriors

I wasn't alive for Al's championship. Or this incident.

But I was hoping you could clarify your position. If your son or daughter was punched in the face by a coach, even in the event that it was to try and inspire/"fire up" the team/player, you'd be okay with that?

Is intent the only thing that matters? Ends justify the means?

[Newsdreams]

I wasn't alive for Al's championship. Or this incident.

But I was hoping you could clarify your position. If your son or daughter was punched in the face by a coach, even in the event that it was to try and inspire/"fire up" the team/player, you'd be okay with that?

Is intent the only thing that matters? Ends justify the means?

That is only a very tiny part of his problem. Goes much deeper.

[Cheeks]

I wasn't alive for Al's championship. Or this incident.

But I was hoping you could clarify your position. If your son or daughter was punched in the face by a coach, even in the event that it was to try and inspire/"fire up" the team/player, you'd be okay with that?

Is intent the only thing that matters? Ends justify the means?

If as Bernard Toone stated, it was understood between him and Al what the purpose of it was...that would weigh into.  It would depend who the coach is, what I know of the coach, etc.

My daughter...no.  Double standards exist...yup...been saying that forever and just another example.

If it were my son, it depends.
I would want his input.  Why, what, how, etc.  Was it a “punch”, was it a slap?  Was it pushing up against the lockers?  How well do I know the coach. What was the intent?  Etc.  My default answer would be super pissed and likely go after him administratively.

But, let’s say he says “Dad, I deserved it.  I was immature (Lenny’s words) and I made a comment about coach that was hardcore, incredibly incendiary and wrong.  I get why he did it, we are good now...coach and I have buried the hatchet”.   Would that make a difference in my evaluation?  Yes

[MU82]

LOL

Indeed.

If as Bernard Toone stated, it was understood between him and Al what the purpose of it was...that would weigh into.  It would depend who the coach is, what I know of the coach, etc.

My daughter...no.  Double standards exist...yup...been saying that forever and just another example.

If it were my son, it depends.
I would want my his input.  Why, what, how, etc.  Was it a “punch”, was it a slap?  Was it pushing up against the lockers?  How well do I know the coach. What was the intent?  Etc.  My default answer would be super pissed and likely go after him administratively.

But, let’s say he says “Dad, I deserved it.  I was immature (Lenny’s words) and I made a comment about coach that was hardcore, incredibly incendiary and wrong.  I get why he did it, we are good now...coach and I have buried the hatchet”.   Would that make a difference in my evaluation?  Yes

Liar

[Cheeks]

Indeed.

Liar

I’m sorry, what am I lying about? 

I’ll ask it to you.  Your son makes a racist comment to his coach and the coach slaps him...justified”?  I would say yes. 

Sorry things are so cut and dry for you.  I’m glad Bernard and Al figured it out and it was no big thing.  Reasonable people can disagree without calling people liars.

[MU82]

I’m sorry, what am I lying about?

That you would be OK if an authority figure punched your son in the face. Your caveat was ridiculous and simply wouldn't happen. You might as well have said, "I'd be OK with a unicorn punching my son in the face."

You admitting you have a double-standard about your daughter, that actually was refreshing.

[Cheeks]

That you would be OK if an authority figure punched your son in the face. Your caveat was ridiculous and simply wouldn't happen. You might as well have said, "I'd be OK with a unicorn punching my son in the face."

You admitting you have a double-standard about your daughter, that actually was refreshing.

See above as I edited response.

 And not ridiculous, in fact what I said is what essentially happened with Toone and Al.  You can read his own words or the words or Majerus, Al, etc. 

God Bless Al, Bernard, cool heads prevailing, common sense, and America. 

[MU82]

See above as I edited response.

 And not ridiculous, in fact what I said is what essentially happened with Toone and Al.  You can read his own words or the words or Majerus, Al, etc. 

God Bless Al, Bernard, cool heads prevailing, common sense, and America.

The only situation in which cooler heads would have prevailed is if the coach didn't punch your kid in the face.

You would sue the school -- I 100% don't believe you if you say you wouldn't -- and you would win the lawsuit..

And if you were too stupid to sue the school, the coach would be fired anyway. As he should be.

Short of the kid punching the coach in the face first, there is no acceptable reason for the coach to punch the kid. And you know it. You are just hoopaloopin' -- arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Cheeks]

The only situation in which cooler heads would have prevailed is if the coach didn't punch your kid in the face.

You would sue the school -- I 100% don't believe you if you say you wouldn't -- and you would win the lawsuit..

And if you were too stupid to sue the school, the coach would be fired anyway. As he should be.

Short of the kid punching the coach in the face first, there is no acceptable reason for the coach to punch the kid. And you know it. You are just hoopaloopin' -- arguing for the sake of arguing.

If my son said all was good, I absolutely would not sue. I would trust my son’s response and leave it at that.  Besides, Toone was an adult and using that same parallel it would be up to my son to make that decision, not me...he has the legal claim, not I.

[MU82]

If my son said all was good, I absolutely would not sue. I would trust my son’s response and leave it at that.  Besides, Toone was an adult and using that same parallel it would be up to my son to make that decision, not me...he has the legal claim, not I.

It's a dopey hypothetical, a ridiculous scenario that would not happen today.

And the school would fire the coach even if you were too cowed by the coach's greatness to sue.

Besides that, I don't believe you, and I doubt anybody else does either. You are not credible.

And if you wouldn't accept a coach punching your daughter in the face for the exact same ridiculous scenario, you are a sexist, too.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I’m sorry, what am I lying about? 

How much time you got, Hoopaloop?

[79Warrior]

If my son said all was good, I absolutely would not sue. I would trust my son’s response and leave it at that.  Besides, Toone was an adult and using that same parallel it would be up to my son to make that decision, not me...he has the legal claim, not I.

Bernard was probably 19 at the time

[Cheeks]

It's a dopey hypothetical, a ridiculous scenario that would not happen today.

And the school would fire the coach even if you were too cowed by the coach's greatness to sue.

Besides that, I don't believe you, and I doubt anybody else does either. You are not credible.

And if you wouldn't accept a coach punching your daughter in the face for the exact same ridiculous scenario, you are a sexist, too.

I am a sexist then, in the way you described.  I believe no one should ever hit a woman, period.  I have double standards there, which I admitted.  Guilty as charged.

Do not care if you believe me, but I wouldn’t sue necessarily.  Depends on the situation and who did it, why, etc.  Should Bernard Toone sue MU and the McGuire estate?

[MU82]

I am a sexist then, in the way you described.  I believe no one should ever hit a woman, period.  I have double standards there, which I admitted.  Guilty as charged.

Do not care if you believe me, but I wouldn’t sue necessarily.  Depends on the situation and who did it, why, etc.  Should Bernard Toone sue MU and the McGuire estate?

It's not 1977 any more, pal. Assault is no longer considered "motivation" or "inspiration." It's assault, and illegal actions have consequences.

I know you long for the good old days when an authority figure could punch, kick, choke and bully the young men under his charge, but alas, welcome to 2019.

[jesmu84]

NIL update....

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/nflpa-teaming-up-with-national-college-players-association-could-mean-the-return-of-ncaa-football

[Cheeks]

It's not 1977 any more, pal. Assault is no longer considered "motivation" or "inspiration." It's assault, and illegal actions have consequences.

I know you long for the good old days when an authority figure could punch, kick, choke and bully the young men under his charge, but alas, welcome to 2019.

Should Bernard Toone sue, you didn’t answer the question as usual.