Well that was a waste

[MU82]

I have 5 children and I never hit any of them. They all are now grown and turned out fine.Regardless of the fact that some people spank or hit their children, I think that hitting is an admission of defeat and counter productive. My father never hit me and I guess I turned out OK.

Exact same, harry.

My dad was a tough as nails guy who fought under Patton in WWII ... but he never once hit me or my 3 brothers. And I never hit either of my two kids.

I simply don't see the need for being physically violent with one's kids. I like the way you termed it: admission of defeat.

[79Warrior]

harry,

Just anecdotal, but the only people I know who defend hitting kids are those who have been hit themselves. Once the "tradition" is broken I know of nobody who decided to reinstate it.

I actually was hit as a kid. Totally resented it and vowed I would never parent like that. My wife and I raised two great kids and we never raised a hand.

[Lennys Tap]

I actually was hit as a kid. Totally resented it and vowed I would never parent like that. My wife and I raised two great kids and we never raised a hand.

Well done, Warrior.

[tower912]

I wasn't just hit, my dad had a piece of 2 x 4 that he used on us so he didn't hurt his hand.   That continued until I was about 14 when he hit me and I didn't flinch.  I just gritted my teeth and glared at him.  Never again.

I made a conscious choice to never hit my children.

[Uncle Rico]

Was Wojo hit as a child?  Could explain a lot

[The Sultan]

Was Wojo hit as a child?  Could explain a lot

His dad only hit whiteboards.

[WhiteTrash]

"Children who experience repeated use of corporal punishment tend to develop more aggressive behaviors"

Hmm

Argument for corporal punishment?

[Cheeks]

No, what you went out of your way to say - resurrecting a dead thread - was:

Remember when Al punched Bernard Toone at halftime.  In Al's words..."very hard" after throwing him up against a wall.  What would have happened today if Al had done that?  Seriously?

Sometimes these things get way over played in my opinion.  And yes, I think it is b3cause we are softer than we used to be.  Al would have been highly scrutinized for what he did, though it did exactly what he was hoping for.  If memory serves, all involved came to understand what it was and people didn't lose their jobs or collective minds because of it.  Thank God video wasn't around then, or some of the outage of today, in my opinion.

You certainly seem to be romanticizing the "good old days" when an authority figure not only could get away with punching a young person under his charge in the face but be applauded for it.

You seem to be suggesting that it would be outrageous that some might want to "highly scrutinize" a coach for punching a player in the face. And you apparently wish video didn't exist today, because it's likely to show an authority figure punching a kid in the face.

You have "lost your mind" here on Scoop over Buzz Williams' alleged misconduct ... but you would have been fine with Buzz punching Jake Thomas in the face to motivate him?

You're a dad. Can you honestly say you would applaud an authority figure for punching your kid in the face as a motivational tactic "because it did exactly what he was hoping for"?

Alleged misconduct....LOL.

More than anything I think the most interesting part is the hypocrisy exposed where people tee off on Mike Rice, Bob Knight, Woody, etc and it happened in our own house and not just by one coach.  We have selective outrage and amnesia here all the time.

Lots of ways to skin a cat.  I was spanked for running into the street as a young lad and a car almost hit me.  My dad had a long talk with me, he didn't want to spank me but he also wanted to make damn sure I never did it again.  I never did it again.  Loved my dad, he loved me...I knew there was no malice.  This is the part some of you completely ignore.  Do I support teeing off on someone?  Nope.  Kids?  Wife?  Nope, nope.  Have I ever raised a hand to my wife?  Nope.  Have I spanked my kids, yup...after long discussion, explaining why.  Did it work.  Yup.

My wife tells the story of her upbringing by a Marquette grad, she was never spanked.  At age 14 she was talking back to her mom in front of many people and her mom slapped her, embarrassed her in front of all of them.  My wife to this day says it was the most humiliated she ever felt and also the best punishment she ever received....it straightened her out...different things work for different people.  Malice, abuse, etc cannot be tolerated...but a simple good talking to sometimes doesn't work which is why I copied the article.

[Cheeks]

I guess there is a group that don't believe society should improve / evolve.

I guess there is a group that thinks unicorns, gumdrops and rainbows are right around the corner.

[MU82]

Alleged misconduct....LOL.

More than anything I think the most interesting part is the hypocrisy exposed where people tee off on Mike Rice, Bob Knight, Woody, etc and it happened in our own house and not just by one coach.  We have selective outrage and amnesia here all the time.

Lots of ways to skin a cat.  I was spanked for running into the street as a young lad and a car almost hit me.  My dad had a long talk with me, he didn't want to spank me but he also wanted to make damn sure I never did it again.  I never did it again.  Loved my dad, he loved me...I knew there was no malice.  This is the part some of you completely ignore.  Do I support teeing off on someone?  Nope.  Kids?  Wife?  Nope, nope. 

My wife tells the story of her upbringing by a Marquette grad, she was never spanked.  At age 14 she was talking back to her mom in front of many people and her mom slapped her, embarrassed her in front of all of them.  My wife to this day says it was the most humiliated she ever felt and also the best punishment she ever received....it straightened her out...different things work for different people.  Malice, abuse, etc cannot be tolerated...but a simple good talking to sometimes doesn't work which is why I copied the article.

In the MLB thread, you were very quick to defend the Astros' sexist jerk, and you were still doing so days later: what was the intent.  Looks like their GM is saying the same thing.  We get it, some people assume auto-guilt.  I just don't. He might be, but I would want to know why he did it and what the intent was.

OK, so what was Buzz's intent when it came to actions you considered squirmy? When you can provide absolute proof about his intent, only then does any criticism you have against him carry even a shred of credibility.

Also, with this -- More than anything I think the most interesting part is the hypocrisy exposed where people tee off on Mike Rice, Bob Knight, Woody, etc and it happened in our own house and not just by one coach -- do you have something to share about Buzz punching an athlete in the face or choking an athlete? Or is this another thing you'll promise to share at some point in the future?

As for your anecdotes about you getting spanked and your wife getting slapped ... that's what they are. Personal anecdotes. As you've seen, others have offered their own personal anecdotes and we've never considered corporal punishment for our kids. And we certainly would never have OKed a non-parent to get physically violent with our kids.

I see that you conveniently ignored the main part of my post. You didn't just say spanking might be OK sometimes; if you did, you'd have received much less backlash than you got. No, you romanticized an authority figure punching a college student in the face, and you lamented how that would no longer be acceptable because these aren't the "good old days."

Also, hypocrite hoopaloop, you didn't say whether or not you would similarly applaud an authority figure for punching one of your own kids in the face as a motivational tactic.

[Lennys Tap]

Lots of ways to skin a cat.  I was spanked for running into the street as a young lad and a car almost hit me.  My dad had a long talk with me, he didn't want to spank me but he also wanted to make damn sure I never did it again.  I never did it again.  Loved my dad, he loved me...I knew there was no malice.  This is the part some of you completely ignore.  Do I support teeing off on someone?  Nope.  Kids?  Wife?  Nope, nope. 

My wife tells the story of her upbringing by a Marquette grad, she was never spanked.  At age 14 she was talking back to her mom in front of many people and her mom slapped her, embarrassed her in front of all of them.  My wife to this day says it was the most humiliated she ever felt and also the best punishment she ever received....it straightened her out...different things work for different people.  Malice, abuse, etc cannot be tolerated...but a simple good talking to sometimes doesn't work which is why I copied the article.

Your mother in law didn't slap your wife to teach her a valuable lesson. She hit her because she lost her temper. Not uncommon for the victim to assess good motives/positive results to the bad behavior of an authority figure, especially one they love. Not saying your mother in law is a bad person, just saying that loss of control is a bad way to "teach a lesson".

Your Dad's situation is different. He never lost control, never hit you in anger. Corporal punishment was common in those days and thought to be effective. To an extent it was but I think we can agree there are better ways to get the message across. Nevertheless, he acted out of love/concern (assuming your memory is accurate). So I think he gets a pass, but I'm glad we've evolved from there.

[Pakuni]

Alleged misconduct....LOL.

More than anything I think the most interesting part is the hypocrisy exposed where people tee off on Mike Rice, Bob Knight, Woody, etc and it happened in our own house and not just by one coach.  We have selective outrage and amnesia here all the time.

Pretty sure you and guru are the only ones praising and defending the physical abuse of players "in our own house."

[Pakuni]

Your mother in law didn't slap your wife to teach her a valuable lesson. She hit her because she lost her temper. Not uncommon for the victim to assess good motives/positive results to the bad behavior of an authority figure, especially one they love. Not saying your mother in law is a bad person, just saying that loss of control is a bad way to "teach a lesson"

100 percent this.

[Galway Eagle]

100 percent this.

Seconded

[Cheeks]

"Children who experience repeated use of corporal punishment tend to develop more aggressive behaviors"

Hmm

Careful, authority fallacy response coming from some posters...actually, nevermind, it won't because that response only comes depending on who is citing authority and if their position is supported...carry on.

[Pakuni]

Careful, authority fallacy response coming from some posters...actually, nevermind, it won't because that response only comes depending on who is citing authority and if their position is supported...carry on.

Your understanding of the appeal to authority fallacy is very wrong.
Appeal to authority is not when a person cities the results of a scientific study to support or refute an argument.
Appeal to authority is when someone argues "Tom Izzo says so, so it must be true."
And here I thought Logic 101 was a requirement at Marquette.

[Uncle Rico]

If I had to choose between punching players or them getting paid on their likeness, it's a no-brainer. 

[79Warrior]

Your understanding of the appeal to authority fallacy is very wrong.
Appeal to authority is not when a person cities the results of a scientific study to support or refute an argument.
Appeal to authority is when someone argues "Tom Izzo says so, so it must be true."
And here I thought Logic 101 was a requirement at Marquette.

You are correct

[WhiteTrash]

If I had to choose between punching players or them getting paid on their likeness, it's a no-brainer.

I would hope the choice between punching players and them NOT getting paid on their likeness, is a no-brainer also.

[Cheeks]

In the MLB thread, you were very quick to defend the Astros' sexist jerk, and you were still doing so days later: what was the intent.  Looks like their GM is saying the same thing.  We get it, some people assume auto-guilt.  I just don't. He might be, but I would want to know why he did it and what the intent was.

OK, so what was Buzz's intent when it came to actions you considered squirmy? When you can provide absolute proof about his intent, only then does any criticism you have against him carry even a shred of credibility.

Also, with this -- More than anything I think the most interesting part is the hypocrisy exposed where people tee off on Mike Rice, Bob Knight, Woody, etc and it happened in our own house and not just by one coach -- do you have something to share about Buzz punching an athlete in the face or choking an athlete? Or is this another thing you'll promise to share at some point in the future?

As for your anecdotes about you getting spanked and your wife getting slapped ... that's what they are. Personal anecdotes. As you've seen, others have offered their own personal anecdotes and we've never considered corporal punishment for our kids. And we certainly would never have OKed a non-parent to get physically violent with our kids.

I see that you conveniently ignored the main part of my post. You didn't just say spanking might be OK sometimes; if you did, you'd have received much less backlash than you got. No, you romanticized an authority figure punching a college student in the face, and you lamented how that would no longer be acceptable because these aren't the "good old days."

Also, hypocrite hoopaloop, you didn't say whether or not you would similarly applaud an authority figure for punching one of your own kids in the face as a motivational tactic.

LOL

[Cheeks]

Pretty sure you and guru are the only ones praising and defending the physical abuse of players "in our own house"

By the way, there are a number that aren't publicly defending the actions but have already PM'd me saying what he did was perfectly fine, they just don't want to get called out by the mob here that will judge them and sentence them to Dante's inferno.  Up to them if they wish to state it, but I suspect most will not because it isn't worth the attacks.  My two cents.

The way past prominent people are vilified by some here for actions they took years ago, I'm a little surprised by the silence.  At any rate, I loved Al, enjoyed working with him, he was not perfect nor are any of us.  He did something that I don't think was a big deal, others disagree.  That's fine...we just disagree.  I do find it odd how outraged some get when others do it, but how church mouse quiet the outrage is with our own...but ok. 

Some of you spanked your kids, some didn't. That's fine.  Lots of ways to go about it.  No universal solutions work for all in my opinion.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Isn't Al our own?

[Cheeks]

Your understanding of the appeal to authority fallacy is very wrong.
Appeal to authority is not when a person cities the results of a scientific study to support or refute an argument.
Appeal to authority is when someone argues "Tom Izzo says so, so it must be true."
And here I thought Logic 101 was a requirement at Marquette.

Uhm, I think you missed the linkage.  Let me help

500 economists said so in a study, thus it must be true

A child psychologist said so in a study, so it must be true.

Coach K says players should be paid for their likeness, so it must be true.

Logic...received an A in it.  Cannot remember the course number...was that 050 or a 100 level.

[Cheeks]

Isn't Al our own?

Yup. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yup.

So wouldn't those criticizing Al be an example of people getting outraged even if though it was their own?