Outsiders View Of Hausers Transfer

[MUHoopsFan2]

RJax55 said:

That said, I'm not sold that this transfer was specifically about their numbers. I feel it was more about winning and losing and how they feared next season would end up finishing in a similar fashion as what happened this March.

It is not about "winning and losing." They did win! They were 24-10! One win from the Big East title...so it is not about that.

I think that failure to not win the Big East when they could have clinched at Fiserv really weighed on the entire situation.

But it was about their numbers and the teams numbers coming up short at the end of games...and shot attempts.

In my opinion:
They not going to win anymore wherever they go than they would of if they had just stayed here...I bet that.

Plus they lose a year of playing...unfortunate. Had they stayed and worked it out all of that would have taken care of itself.

They might have challenged for a National Title... Final Four at least. Just buy in...

[NickelDimer]

I'm not sold it was that either. That's the narrative being pushed hard by some here. The Hausers were selfish, looking for their own opportunities, wanted to be the top guys, etc.

I think it very much could be a focus on achieving more balance within the offense. With the idea, that more balance would led to greater sustainability, thus a better opportunity to win big. That was the tipping point, faith (or lack of) that the Wojo could get this team (with Markus) to win big.

A more balanced attack would give Sam and Joey more opportunities, but others would benefit as well. That said, I'm not sold that this transfer was specifically about their numbers. I feel it was more about winning and losing and how they feared next season would end up finishing in a similar fashion as what happened this March.

It will be interesting to see where they end up. Perhaps, they misjudged this situation and MU will win big next year with Markus. That's a possibility. We can talk about Koby or Greg all day, but the ball is going to be in Markus' hands next season. A lot. I'm pretty confident his usage will continue to be among the nation's leaders. If it works, we can throw it back at the Hausers on how they missed out on a special season. But, if next year ends of looking more like a redux of how last season ended, the Hausers transfer will very much be looked at as the canary in the coal mine moment.

Perfectly stated

[Spotcheck Billy]

Personally, I don't care if Wojo replaces the Hausers with cocker spaniels, I want to see MU in the Top 25 and a Sweet Sixteen run. The rest is background noise. (other alums I've talked to feel the exact same way)

Only if they are part of the halftime entertainment at the FF.

[MU82]

As often happens on Scoop (and other interwebs sites) folks get hung up on a word or two.

In this case, it's "selfish."

I do not think Sam was a selfish player. He usually was the opposite of that, although there were stretches (Seton Hall game, IIRC) where he took a couple of crazy shots late that, if another Warrior had taken them, he'd have been called "selfish" by some.

But I do think there were aspects of his decision to transfer that were "selfish" because he was thinking about his own situation rather than the team's. I don't like that he did it but I understand why (if it's for the reason I think it was).

There isn't a single one of us who isn't "selfish" at times. Nobody has my interests at heart more than I do. Nobody has your interests at heart more than you do. And nobody has Sam's interests at heart more than Sam does. So of course Sam was "selfish" here in that he obviously was thinking more about his own basketball situation than about Marquette's basketball situation.

But kind of like "quitter," it's that word -- "selfish" -- that makes folks recoil because it has such a negative connotation.

Oh, and I STILL have not seen a good explanation as to why, if it was all about Wojo's dishonesty and not about Markus, the Hausers would have been willing to keep playing under the dishonest Wojo if Markus had left.

[Lennys Tap]

Oh, and I STILL have not seen a good explanation as to why, if it was all about Wojo's dishonesty and not about Markus, the Hausers would have been willing to keep playing under the dishonest Wojo if Markus had left.

I think that one is actually pretty easy. I think Sam actually liked Wojo's motion offense (i.e., "system"). When run the way it was drawn up it everyone was involved and the team was successful. When Markus chucked the system and took over games himself the team was initially successful (Buffalo, e.g.) but Sam felt that hero ball would ultimately be the team's downfall. He was right.

Sam (logically, IMO) felt that if Markus left it would be back to the system and the end of hero ball. When Markus announced his return, either Wojo was unsuccessful in  trying to convince  Sam that Markus would be expected to play within the system next year or Wojo told Sam the freelancing would continue unabated with his blessing. Either way, Sam was gone.

[CTWarrior]

Oh, and I STILL have not seen a good explanation as to why, if it was all about Wojo's dishonesty and not about Markus, the Hausers would have been willing to keep playing under the dishonest Wojo if Markus had left.

The most obvious reason is that if they believe that Wojo has a "star" system which lets the star control the game without much in the way of consequences, with Howard gone Sam would have been the star and could either instill more of a team ethic on the floor or hoist up 20 shots a night himself.

[MU82]

I think that one is actually pretty easy. I think Sam actually liked Wojo's motion offense (i.e., "system"). When run the way it was drawn up it everyone was involved and the team was successful. When Markus chucked the system and took over games himself the team was initially successful (Buffalo, e.g.) but Sam felt that hero ball would ultimately be the team's downfall. He was right.

Sam (logically, IMO) felt that if Markus left it would be back to the system and the end of hero ball. When Markus announced his return, either Wojo was unsuccessful in  trying to convince  Sam that Markus would be expected to play within the system next year or Wojo told Sam the freelancing would continue unabated with his blessing. Either way, Sam was gone.

That's the best explanation I have seen, Lenny.

However ...

Two different older-guard Scoopers who claim to be in the know about the Hauser family's intimate thoughts sent me PMs saying well before Markus' announcement that the family's level of trust of Wojo had completely evaporated. They felt misled by him and doubted he had the team's best interests at heart.

And Wojo was still going to be here, the same guy they had completely lost faith in.

These things are rarely "easy," Lenny.

The most obvious reason is that if they believe that Wojo has a "star" system which lets the star control the game without much in the way of consequences, with Howard gone Sam would have been the star and could either instill more of a team ethic on the floor or hoist up 20 shots a night himself.

OK, that I can believe a little more. The whole "they lost their faith in Wojo" angle might have been a smokescreen, or overstated ... and, in the end, Sam just wanted more shots and touches, and wanted more of a say in how the offense would be run.

That makes some sense, CTW, but the "Hausers are the golden children who aren't even 1% about themselves" folks have trouble with that theory.

[Lennys Tap]

That's the best explanation I have seen, Lenny.

However ...

Two different older-guard Scoopers who claim to be in the know about the Hauser family's intimate thoughts sent me PMs saying well before Markus' announcement that the family's level of trust of Wojo had completely evaporated. They felt misled by him and doubted he had the team's best interests at heart.

And Wojo was still going to be here, the same guy they had completely lost faith in.

These things are rarely "easy," Lenny.

I'm not privy to what's said in team meetings. Perhaps Wojo acknowledged that at times they were moving away from the system into "hero ball" and that it needed to change. But it didn't. Hence a loss of "faith", "trust", whatever. Of course if Markus left, getting back to the system the Hausers liked would be seamless and trust (at least a level of it) could be restored. But with Markus coming back one of two things happened: Wojo said Markus would be reined in or he wouldn't. If the former, there was (in the Hausers opinion) enough past evidence to make them non believers. If the latter there was nothing even to discuss. Who knows? Doesn't matter, really.

[MU82]

I'm not privy to what's said in team meetings. Perhaps Wojo acknowledged that at times they were moving away from the system into "hero ball" and that it needed to change. But it didn't. Hence a loss of "faith", "trust", whatever. Of course if Markus left, getting back to the system the Hausers liked would be seamless and trust (at least a level of it) could be restored. But with Markus coming back one of two things happened: Wojo said Markus would be reined in or he wouldn't. If the former, there was (in the Hausers opinion) enough past evidence to make them non believers. If the latter there was nothing even to discuss. Who knows? Doesn't matter, really.

Fair enough, Lenny. Your last sentence is the one that really resonates now.

The Hausers are gone. Wojo and Markus are still here, as is a group of players who want to be here and want to win here. Hopefully, more reinforcements are on the way, both for next season and for 2020-21 and beyond.

We are Marquette!

[Nukem2]

Fair enough, Lenny. Your last sentence is the one that really resonates now.

The Hausers are gone. Wojo and Markus are still here, as is a group of players who want to be here and want to win here. Hopefully, more reinforcements are on the way, both for next season and for 2020-21 and beyond.

We are Marquette!

Yup, they are history.  Need to focus on the here and now as well as the future. 

[The Equalizer]

Oh, and I STILL have not seen a good explanation as to why, if it was all about Wojo's dishonesty and not about Markus, the Hausers would have been willing to keep playing under the dishonest Wojo if Markus had left.

How about this:

Lets go back to a comment that someone made back in February that suggested Koby (and not Joey) was the 3rd best player in practice. 

Talk is McEwen is 3rd best player in practice......

Hope this is true......and he is pulling Ellitott along with him.....

Now let's say Wojo promised that Joey and Sam would start together for two years, fulfilling the brothers' dream, expecting that he wouldn't have Markus for 19-20.

Everything works out fine if Markus leaves, even if Koby is outperforming Joey--that means a likely starting lineup of Koby, Sam, Joey, Theo and Sacar.  It would still give Joey ample opportunity to shine as a starter.

But with Markus returning, the starting lineup could have been Markus, Sam, Koby, Theo, and Sacar, with Joey off the bench.   

On hearing Markus comes back, Joey asks Wojo: "Im still starting, right", and Wojo says "We'll see about that in November--you have to earn it," thus becoming dishonest Wojo.  Team Hauser gets pissed because in their minds, Wojo broke a promise. 

[Newsdreams]

How about this:

Lets go back to a comment that someone made back in February that suggested Koby (and not Joey) was the 3rd best player in practice. 

Now let's say Wojo promised that Joey and Sam would start together for two years, fulfilling the brothers' dream, expecting that he wouldn't have Markus for 19-20.

Everything works out fine if Markus leaves, even if Koby is outperforming Joey--that means a likely starting lineup of Koby, Sam, Joey, Theo and Sacar.  It would still give Joey ample opportunity to shine as a starter.

But with Markus returning, the starting lineup could have been Markus, Sam, Koby, Theo, and Sacar, with Joey off the bench.   

On hearing Markus comes back, Joey asks Wojo: "Im still starting, right", and Wojo says "We'll see about that in November--you have to earn it," thus becoming dishonest Wojo.  Team Hauser gets pissed because in their minds, Wojo broke a promise.

This is what I have thought. Also Wojo did bow to their wish to not keep recruiting Herro. A big mistake. What they really missed is that the ball will not be in Markus hands at the beginning of the offensive possession but mostly in Koby's and distribution would have been a lot better.

[rocket surgeon]

This, coupled with equalizers thoughts re: koby vs Joey

"Two different older-guard Scoopers who claim to be in the know about the Hauser family's intimate thoughts sent me PMs saying well before Markus' announcement that the family's level of trust of Wojo had completely evaporated. They felt misled by him and doubted he had the team's best interests at heart."


So the Hauser felt misled by Wojo cuz he can't promise Joey he will be starting?  Then, doubt Wojo has the teams best interest at heart? 

  Nothing wrong with team mates pushing each other to be BETTER. Whoever is ringing the bell, gets the pt baby last season, Wojo gave Joey an awfully long leash.  Not taking him out after blowing some defensive assignments or his fill in the blank turnover(s) could have also indicated to some that Wojo didn't or had trouble standing up to the Hausers cuz he had a " deal" with them? 

Now, let me just preface all this with, if this were the scenario, then, maybe Wojo had some difficulties fitting the pieces together. Now, despite losing one very good talent and another with a lot of promise, Wojo will set some new ground rules...well, he has to cuz what's his alternative...learn from ones mistakes. If ya don't acknowledge history, it's bound to repeat itself, Eyna?

[tower912]

How about this:

Lets go back to a comment that someone made back in February that suggested Koby (and not Joey) was the 3rd best player in practice. 

Now let's say Wojo promised that Joey and Sam would start together for two years, fulfilling the brothers' dream, expecting that he wouldn't have Markus for 19-20.

Everything works out fine if Markus leaves, even if Koby is outperforming Joey--that means a likely starting lineup of Koby, Sam, Joey, Theo and Sacar.  It would still give Joey ample opportunity to shine as a starter.

But with Markus returning, the starting lineup could have been Markus, Sam, Koby, Theo, and Sacar, with Joey off the bench.   

On hearing Markus comes back, Joey asks Wojo: "Im still starting, right", and Wojo says "We'll see about that in November--you have to earn it," thus becoming dishonest Wojo.  Team Hauser gets pissed because in their minds, Wojo broke a promise.

I've made a version of this argument.  To add on, Bailey played very well down the stretch and, if this is true, Sam and Joey would be competing with each other.

[Newsdreams]

I've made a version of this argument.  To add on, Bailey played very well down the stretch and, if this is true, Sam and Joey would be competing with each other.

Definitely. But I could see depending on matchups fouls and game flow Joey would come in for Sacar /Theo or Ed / Sam. They'll most likely compete with each other wherever they go unless the team has no Forwards

[MU82]

I appreciate everybody's attempts to answer the question. I've moved on.

Go Marquette!

[Lennys Tap]

I've made a version of this argument.  To add on, Bailey played very well down the stretch and, if this is true, Sam and Joey would be competing with each other.

Hope you and the others are right. If Joey was headed for the bench and we've got a grad transfer who's a better shooter than Sam headed our way we should be better off without them, their terrible attitude and all the dissension they caused. So,  between #2 and #7 with them. What have we moved up to? #National Champs 2020

[denverMU]

So, my oldest brother is a MSU grad and big college b-ball fan.  His opinion of the Hauser's.....they aren't coming to MSU...no room and they aren't that good.  Watched the MU/Murray St. game and thought MU lost because of Joey.  Thinks Wojo told Joey his playing time would probably go down and that led mom and dad Hauser decide their sons were leaving MU.  I don't know what happened but that is another outsider view.

[MU82]

So, my oldest brother is a MSU grad and big college b-ball fan.  His opinion of the Hauser's.....they aren't coming to MSU...no room and they aren't that good.  Watched the MU/Murray St. game and thought MU lost because of Joey.  Thinks Wojo told Joey his playing time would probably go down and that led mom and dad Hauser decide their sons were leaving MU.  I don't know what happened but that is another outsider view.

I doubt Wojo told Joey his playing time would be reduced; coaches just don't say that kind of thing. Much easier to believe: Wojo told Joey that he needed to take his game to another level if he wanted to continue getting the kind of playing time he received this year.

There's a big difference. The latter is the kind of challenge that coaches make to players all the time: You have to get better because the people who want your playing time are determined to get better. It's Coaching 101, because it puts the situation in the player's control.

[Billy Hoyle]

Watched the MU/Murray St. game and thought MU lost because of Joey. 

Then he doesn't know basketball well. MU lost because of Ja Morant.

[shoothoops]

Outsiders obviously aren't going to care anywhere near as much as much as MU fans. If Marquette is successful next year and in the coming years, the Hauser's won't be thought of much or mentioned. If Marquette stumbles and struggles next season and beyond, some people will mention the Hauser's leaving.

[#UnleashSean]

So, my oldest brother is a MSU grad and big college b-ball fan.  His opinion of the Hauser's.....they aren't coming to MSU...no room and they aren't that good.  Watched the MU/Murray St. game and thought MU lost because of Joey.  Thinks Wojo told Joey his playing time would probably go down and that led mom and dad Hauser decide their sons were leaving MU.  I don't know what happened but that is another outsider view.

I'd guess the pg who went 9 for 27 with 2 assists was more at fault then the 6٪ usage 3/8 PF. But that's just me.

[Lennys Tap]

I'd guess the pg who went 9 for 27 with 2 assists was more at fault then the 6٪ usage 3/8 PF. But that's just me.

Yeah, no offense to denver's brother or our own Billy Hoyle but they're both wrong.

The biggest reason we were routed was because we didn't play anything that resembled team basketball and the person most responsible for that (Markus) was awful.

The second biggest reason we were annihilated was that Murray State played quintessential team basketball and the person most responsible for that (Ja) was outstanding.

Here are the unhappy totals for both teams starting 5s:

Murray St:    Usage%   ORtg
KJ Williams     24.3        132
Ja Morant       23.8        122
T Brown         19,9        143
D Cowert        19.4        103
Shaq              17.4        111

Marquette:
M Howard       42.8         95
S Hauser        20.7         109
J Hauser         17.8          80
S Anim            7.0           25
T John            10.3          36

Markus took almost half of our shots and shot very poorly. We double teamed Morant and hoped he wouldn't find wide open shooters - even though that was the greatest strength of his game.

So the two biggest reasons we lost? Bad Markus showed up and still insisted to hog the ball and Wojo's strategy to make the best passer in college basketball pass the ball backfired. Duh.

[Marcus92]

I wish there were only two reasons we lost to Murray State.

In addition to getting open looks, MSU also made those shots at an incredibly high rate. A team that averaged 35% from three-point range hit 9 of 18 (50.0%) against MU -- their highest three-point percentage of the season. That alone accounts for 8 or 9 points of the victory margin compared to a typical performance. Murray State's 55.3% shooting inside the arc was in line with their season average (56.2%).

As for Markus...

While it's true that he took half our shots and performed poorly, the guys who took the other half of our shots were even worse.

Markus shot 4-14 (28.6%) from beyond the arc; the rest of the team shot just 4-17 (23.5%). The result was MU's second-worst 3-point shooting performance of the season. Markus was 5-13 (38.5%) on 2-pointers; the rest of the team was 11-30 (36.7%). Again, the second-worst team performance of the season.

I'm not a fan of hero ball. But absolutely nothing else was working, either.

Add it all up, and Marquette made four fewer 3-point shots and five fewer 2-point shots than we'd be expected to make, given our season averages. In other words, the offense produced roughly 22 fewer points than it would have in a typical game.

This is not a defense of Wojo's game plan, his coaching or Markus. There is no defense for a game like that. It's simply an acknowledgement that Markus doesn't deserve all the blame. This was a team beatdown in every way.

[lawdog77]

Yes, plenty of blame to go around. Still not quite sure how someone who shoots 6 for 17 can have an ORtg of 109