Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread

[JWags85]

Finally set our Italy trip. Going October 4 to 16. Two days in Rome, three in Florence, three in Tuscany two in Naples, a day back to Rome and home.

Back just in time for Packers vs.Bears.

The countryside looks incredible. Has anyone driven a car in Italy.

Amazing.  My sister is actually in Italy right now. One of her college roommates is marrying an Italian guy from Lake Como.  They live in Milan and their wedding got delayed by COVID. A group of them met near Turin and worked their way south to Portofino before they head back north to Como for the wedding this weekend.  They said it’s been relatively normal and nice.

Florence and Tuscany are so incredible.  Driving in Italy is fine, my experience is limited but it’s like Greece…the locals are prone to driving a bit wild.  What are you planning on using the car for?  We saw plenty of the countryside in Tuscany via various winery related shuttles and tour vans and then used the excellent train system for city to city

[pbiflyer]

Typically you probably can’t and don’t want to drive in Rome. Parking in Florence is pricey.
https://romevacationtips.com/12-reasons-shouldnt-hire-car-rome/

But driving through the Tuscan countryside is amazing. Take back roads, you will be amazed at what you find.
Any chance of training between Florence and Rome?

Great time to go. If you do Pompeii, get a guide or join a tour. Herculaneum is less crowded but as impressive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herculaneum

We actually opted to spend more time in Rome instead of Naples.  Rome has so much to explore.
My advice to almost everyone going to Europe is "You are going to too many places". And I speak from experience. We did a similar itinerary of yours, except replace Naples with Venice and a return out of Milan. We were exhausted by the end.

Oh and since good beer is in short supply in Italy, visit "Ma che siete venuti a fà" for some great beers.  https://www.football-pub.com/
As an ale drinker, we like ReAle made in Italy.

[Galway Eagle]

Suggestions for St Louis? Hitting up side project but that's it so food, breweries, etc please!

[shoothoops]

Suggestions for St Louis? Hitting up side project but that's it so food, breweries, etc please!

How many days? Time of year? Interests? What parts of town? Types of food you like etc…you can ask here or message me.

[Galway Eagle]

How many days? Time of year? Interests? What parts of town? Types of food you like etc…you can ask here or message me.

4 days, next weekend, I like food, beer, diver bars and history. I can get around on public transit or Uber so not held by a part of town, have been out by SLU a few times and done the AB tour before.

Apparently getting dragged to a Cardinals game but would prefer a cool by the park bar not some St. Louis equivalent of Wrigleyville.

I literally eat anything that isn't eggplant or dessert so any great food that's off the beaten path would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[StillAWarrior]

4 days, next weekend, I like food, beer, diver bars and history. I can get around on public transit or Uber so not held by a part of town, have been out by SLU a few times and done the AB tour before.

Apparently getting dragged to a Cardinals game but would prefer a cool by the park bar not some St. Louis equivalent of Wrigleyville.

I literally eat anything that isn't eggplant or dessert so any great food that's off the beaten path would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I know very little about STL, but did eat at a burger place called Bailey's Range when I was there several years go. I still recall it as one of the better burger places I've been (as does my daughter). I just checked and it's still there.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

4 days, next weekend, I like food, beer, diver bars and history. I can get around on public transit or Uber so not held by a part of town, have been out by SLU a few times and done the AB tour before.

Apparently getting dragged to a Cardinals game but would prefer a cool by the park bar not some St. Louis equivalent of Wrigleyville.

I literally eat anything that isn't eggplant or dessert so any great food that's off the beaten path would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I'll leave for the St. Louis alums to answer in detail, but I've been there a few times recently the last being 2019 when the daughter visited SLU.
They just completely redid the Gateway Arch Riverfront Park.  One visit, I stayed on the riverfront by Laclede's Landing Neighborhood and I recall a bunch of restaurants in the stone streets there.  It's walking distance to the Cardinals stadium. 
For the SLU visit I was walking distance to Forrest Park which was impressive.  Only thing close to my hotel was hospitals and the Urban Chestnut Brewery.

[shoothoops]

4 days, next weekend, I like food, beer, diver bars and history. I can get around on public transit or Uber so not held by a part of town, have been out by SLU a few times and done the AB tour before.

Apparently getting dragged to a Cardinals game but would prefer a cool by the park bar not some St. Louis equivalent of Wrigleyville.

I literally eat anything that isn't eggplant or dessert so any great food that's off the beaten path would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I like to say, “if it were me” when giving suggestions, as well as ask what someone likes or wants because it isn’t me or my trip.

In my opinion, Forest Park is one of St. Louis’ best things. It has something for everyone. It’s over 1300 acres, larger than Central Park in NYC. They have free trolleys once you get there. In it is the zoo (free) art museum (free) outdoor touring broadway show amphitheater (not free but affordable) connection to the science center,  multiple 9 hole golf courses, 2 tennis centers clay and hard court, including my favorite one Dwight Davis, (18 courts hard court and stadium) which happens to be next to the nice air conditioned visitor’s center. (staff there can give you tips etc…) There’s a brand new several acre area for children if there will be some on your trip. Literally just opened. A Play escape. This is where I would go on a nice weather day. There’s a boathouse restaurant too. It’s pretty good BBQ. Sugarfire Smokehouse runs it. It will likely be crowded. You can take canoes and paddle boats out into the water if you wish. Art Hill is popular for relaxing in the summer or sledding in the winter.

The Missouri History Museum is free, and it's located in the park next to the visitor's center and Dwight Davis, on the North Side of the park near the metro stop. It's a nice museum. They have many exhibits. The Old Courthouse downtown is also worth exploring for a history buff.


The other nice thing about Forest Park is that it has a Metro link stop, and, it’s centrally located, close to several other neighborhoods, Delmar Loop, Central West End, Cortex, Midtown, Tower Grove, downtown, etc….if it were me, at the very least I would spend some time in the Central West End next to the park. The East end of the park is Central West, towards Midtown and SLU. The West end of the park is Washington University’s campus, Wydown neighborhood which is nice, etc... Lots of biking, running, walking, paths in there. Check their event schedule.There are often seasonal special events such as free Shakespeare in the Park like NYC, or a hot air balloon festival or whatever is going on that weekend.

It’s a rare down season for the Cards but they will still get a crowd and many out of town visitors for their weekend summer games. There are a lot of newer places in the neighborhood, not unlike several other cities including what the Cubs have done with Wrigleyville. It’s worth walking past the few blocks, just to see the development, but, if you want a dive place or something more local, you will move it along a bit. But there is a lot going on in Ball Park Village and Cardinal Nation areas. Paddy O’s immediately South of the Stadium would be a better fit for that. Also, near there, Broadway Oyster Bar is popular. You could to to or from Soulard before or after. Lots of free shuttles back and forth to Busch.  If you need quick walking distance food place with beer only, try Sauce on the Side.

City Museum downtown is popular, kids and adults who are young at heart, It isn’t for the faint of heart or non able bodied. Wear sneakers or fomrortable shoes there.

Combining activities/locations with the ball park, Arch Grounds are walkable from there, and they had a huge $380 million renovation recently.  Washington Ave is a loft district near there, walkable of bars and restaurants not far from Busch. Also, The Soulard neighborhood to the South has lots of walkable bars, restaurants, farmer’s market, and it’s one worth visiting. Benton Park is just past it.

There are many local breweries depending on your neighborhood. 4 Hands is near Soulard. I am partial to their “City Wide” Pale Ale. Urban Chestnut is near SLU. Center Ice and Rockwell are near the Grove. Schlafly’s is near the new MLS Stadium in Downtown West.

Burger? Bailey’s is still there. Hi Pointe Drive in is near there. Schlafly’s could get you a brew pub and a decent burger close to there. Soulard has some good burger spots and it has 4 Hands nearby. And just beyond is Benton Park which is known for Mexican food and many Mexican restaurants bakeries and groceries, but it also has a popular local burger place called Mac’s Local Eats. If you are near SLU, Retreat Gastro Pub is a good upscale casual place that I like for both.

If you have young kids, Union Station has an aquarium, ferris wheel, mini golf and all of those types of things after it was redone a few years back. Schlafly’s is walking distance from there. Rooster is a good brunch spot downtown and serves a pretty good burger. Near there is Lafayette Square, lots of cool 1800’s Victorian buildings and homes, variety of colors,  with a park and bars and restaurants.

Also if near SLU, they are building a new $300 Million Food Hall, Cinema, grocery, all kinds of things. It’s called City Foundry. It still has a ways to go. It’s in the Prospect Yards District.

Missouri Botanical Gardens is popular, worth a visit and it’s immediately next to (North) of Tower Grove Park, which is more of a local’s Forest Park. It isn't free but it's very affordable. It's one of the bigger ones nationally and has a lot to see in there. There are several good restaurants nearby.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

4 days, next weekend, I like food, beer, diver bars and history. I can get around on public transit or Uber so not held by a part of town, have been out by SLU a few times and done the AB tour before.

Apparently getting dragged to a Cardinals game but would prefer a cool by the park bar not some St. Louis equivalent of Wrigleyville.

I literally eat anything that isn't eggplant or dessert so any great food that's off the beaten path would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Avoid the "pizza".

[shoothoops]

Avoid the "pizza".

St. Louis has a wide variety of types of pizza. Many people in Chicago don’t either eat deep dish pizza, or eat it only once in a while, as opposed to frequently or all the time. Chicago of course has several other types of pizza as well. St. Louis isn’t any different.

Although it was pretty fun during the recent U.S. Olympic Trials held in St. Louis, when Simone Biles lavished her praise not only for Stl style pizza, but also for the provel version of it.

https://twitter.com/simone_biles/status/1409915138640072705?s=21

[Galway Eagle]

I like to say, “if it were me” when giving suggestions, as well as ask what someone likes or wants because it isn’t me or my trip.

In my opinion, Forest Park is one of St. Louis’ best things. It has something for everyone. It’s over 1300 acres, larger than Central Park in NYC. They have free trolleys once you get there. In it is the zoo (free) art museum (free) outdoor touring broadway show amphitheater (not free but affordable) connection to the science center,  multiple 9 hole golf courses, 2 tennis centers clay and hard court, including my favorite one Dwight Davis, (18 courts hard court and stadium) which happens to be next to the nice air conditioned visitor’s center. (staff there can give you tips etc…) There’s a brand new several acre area for children if there will be some on your trip. Literally just opened. A Play escape. This is where I would go on a nice weather day. There’s a boathouse restaurant too. It’s pretty good BBQ. Sugarfire Smokehouse runs it. It will likely be crowded. You can take canoes and paddle boats out into the water if you wish. Art Hill is popular for relaxing in the summer or sledding in the winter.

The Missouri History Museum is free, and it's located in the park next to the visitor's center and Dwight Davis, on the North Side of the park near the metro stop. It's a nice museum. They have many exhibits. The Old Courthouse downtown is also worth exploring for a history buff.


The other nice thing about Forest Park is that it has a Metro link stop, and, it’s centrally located, close to several other neighborhoods, Delmar Loop, Central West End, Cortex, Midtown, Tower Grove, downtown, etc….if it were me, at the very least I would spend some time in the Central West End next to the park. The East end of the park is Central West, towards Midtown and SLU. The West end of the park is Washington University’s campus, Wydown neighborhood which is nice, etc... Lots of biking, running, walking, paths in there. Check their event schedule.There are often seasonal special events such as free Shakespeare in the Park like NYC, or a hot air balloon festival or whatever is going on that weekend.

It’s a rare down season for the Cards but they will still get a crowd and many out of town visitors for their weekend summer games. There are a lot of newer places in the neighborhood, not unlike several other cities including what the Cubs have done with Wrigleyville. It’s worth walking past the few blocks, just to see the development, but, if you want a dive place or something more local, you will move it along a bit. But there is a lot going on in Ball Park Village and Cardinal Nation areas. Paddy O’s immediately South of the Stadium would be a better fit for that. Also, near there, Broadway Oyster Bar is popular. You could to to or from Soulard before or after. Lots of free shuttles back and forth to Busch.  If you need quick walking distance food place with beer only, try Sauce on the Side.

City Museum downtown is popular, kids and adults who are young at heart, It isn’t for the faint of heart or non able bodied. Wear sneakers or fomrortable shoes there.

Combining activities/locations with the ball park, Arch Grounds are walkable from there, and they had a huge $380 million renovation recently.  Washington Ave is a loft district near there, walkable of bars and restaurants not far from Busch. Also, The Soulard neighborhood to the South has lots of walkable bars, restaurants, farmer’s market, and it’s one worth visiting. Benton Park is just past it.

There are many local breweries depending on your neighborhood. 4 Hands is near Soulard. I am partial to their “City Wide” Pale Ale. Urban Chestnut is near SLU. Center Ice and Rockwell are near the Grove. Schlafly’s is near the new MLS Stadium in Downtown West.

Burger? Bailey’s is still there. Hi Pointe Drive in is near there. Schlafly’s could get you a brew pub and a decent burger close to there. Soulard has some good burger spots and it has 4 Hands nearby. And just beyond is Benton Park which is known for Mexican food and many Mexican restaurants bakeries and groceries, but it also has a popular local burger place called Mac’s Local Eats. If you are near SLU, Retreat Gastro Pub is a good upscale casual place that I like for both.

If you have young kids, Union Station has an aquarium, ferris wheel, mini golf and all of those types of things after it was redone a few years back. Schlafly’s is walking distance from there. Rooster is a good brunch spot downtown and serves a pretty good burger. Near there is Lafayette Square, lots of cool 1800’s Victorian buildings and homes, variety of colors,  with a park and bars and restaurants.

Also if near SLU, they are building a new $300 Million Food Hall, Cinema, grocery, all kinds of things. It’s called City Foundry. It still has a ways to go. It’s in the Prospect Yards District.

Missouri Botanical Gardens is popular, worth a visit and it’s immediately next to (North) of Tower Grove Park, which is more of a local’s Forest Park. It isn't free but it's very affordable. It's one of the bigger ones nationally and has a lot to see in there. There are several good restaurants nearby.

Thanks! Last time I was in town we tried to hit up Pappys Smokehouse but the wait was absurd. Worth a second attempt or forgo it for a better BBQ spot?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I like to say, “if it were me” when giving suggestions, as well as ask what someone likes or wants because it isn’t me or my trip.

In my opinion, Forest Park is one of St. Louis’ best things. It has something for everyone. It’s over 1300 acres, larger than Central Park in NYC. They have free trolleys once you get there. In it is the zoo (free) art museum (free) outdoor touring broadway show amphitheater (not free but affordable) connection to the science center,  multiple 9 hole golf courses, 2 tennis centers clay and hard court, including my favorite one Dwight Davis, (18 courts hard court and stadium) which happens to be next to the nice air conditioned visitor’s center. (staff there can give you tips etc…) There’s a brand new several acre area for children if there will be some on your trip. Literally just opened. A Play escape. This is where I would go on a nice weather day. There’s a boathouse restaurant too. It’s pretty good BBQ. Sugarfire Smokehouse runs it. It will likely be crowded. You can take canoes and paddle boats out into the water if you wish. Art Hill is popular for relaxing in the summer or sledding in the winter.

The Missouri History Museum is free, and it's located in the park next to the visitor's center and Dwight Davis, on the North Side of the park near the metro stop. It's a nice museum. They have many exhibits. The Old Courthouse downtown is also worth exploring for a history buff.


The other nice thing about Forest Park is that it has a Metro link stop, and, it’s centrally located, close to several other neighborhoods, Delmar Loop, Central West End, Cortex, Midtown, Tower Grove, downtown, etc….if it were me, at the very least I would spend some time in the Central West End next to the park. The East end of the park is Central West, towards Midtown and SLU. The West end of the park is Washington University’s campus, Wydown neighborhood which is nice, etc... Lots of biking, running, walking, paths in there. Check their event schedule.There are often seasonal special events such as free Shakespeare in the Park like NYC, or a hot air balloon festival or whatever is going on that weekend.

It’s a rare down season for the Cards but they will still get a crowd and many out of town visitors for their weekend summer games. There are a lot of newer places in the neighborhood, not unlike several other cities including what the Cubs have done with Wrigleyville. It’s worth walking past the few blocks, just to see the development, but, if you want a dive place or something more local, you will move it along a bit. But there is a lot going on in Ball Park Village and Cardinal Nation areas. Paddy O’s immediately South of the Stadium would be a better fit for that. Also, near there, Broadway Oyster Bar is popular. You could to to or from Soulard before or after. Lots of free shuttles back and forth to Busch.  If you need quick walking distance food place with beer only, try Sauce on the Side.

City Museum downtown is popular, kids and adults who are young at heart, It isn’t for the faint of heart or non able bodied. Wear sneakers or fomrortable shoes there.

Combining activities/locations with the ball park, Arch Grounds are walkable from there, and they had a huge $380 million renovation recently.  Washington Ave is a loft district near there, walkable of bars and restaurants not far from Busch. Also, The Soulard neighborhood to the South has lots of walkable bars, restaurants, farmer’s market, and it’s one worth visiting. Benton Park is just past it.

There are many local breweries depending on your neighborhood. 4 Hands is near Soulard. I am partial to their “City Wide” Pale Ale. Urban Chestnut is near SLU. Center Ice and Rockwell are near the Grove. Schlafly’s is near the new MLS Stadium in Downtown West.

Burger? Bailey’s is still there. Hi Pointe Drive in is near there. Schlafly’s could get you a brew pub and a decent burger close to there. Soulard has some good burger spots and it has 4 Hands nearby. And just beyond is Benton Park which is known for Mexican food and many Mexican restaurants bakeries and groceries, but it also has a popular local burger place called Mac’s Local Eats. If you are near SLU, Retreat Gastro Pub is a good upscale casual place that I like for both.

If you have young kids, Union Station has an aquarium, ferris wheel, mini golf and all of those types of things after it was redone a few years back. Schlafly’s is walking distance from there. Rooster is a good brunch spot downtown and serves a pretty good burger. Near there is Lafayette Square, lots of cool 1800’s Victorian buildings and homes, variety of colors,  with a park and bars and restaurants.

Also if near SLU, they are building a new $300 Million Food Hall, Cinema, grocery, all kinds of things. It’s called City Foundry. It still has a ways to go. It’s in the Prospect Yards District.

Missouri Botanical Gardens is popular, worth a visit and it’s immediately next to (North) of Tower Grove Park, which is more of a local’s Forest Park. It isn't free but it's very affordable. It's one of the bigger ones nationally and has a lot to see in there. There are several good restaurants nearby.

shoothoops - This is a great list and I think I'm ready for another visit and a Cards game (on my to do list).
City Museum is different and interesting.  I forgot about that.

Galway - One more thing if you like history.  I visited Cahokia Mounds, the earthen Pyramids.  It's a 15 minute drive from DT St. Louis.  Everything is extremely flat and it's very weird to walk to the top of the main mound and be able to see the St. Louis skyline. 

[shoothoops]

Thanks! Last time I was in town we tried to hit up Pappys Smokehouse but the wait was absurd. Worth a second attempt or forgo it for a better BBQ spot?

Short answer is yes worth another try. Longer answer is there are now many other very good alternatives to Pappy’s if you can’t get in there.

Pappy’s also owns Bogart’s in the Soulard. It’s also very good. They have two other locations with other names as they are often a Pappy’s person opening their own offshoot of Pappy’s. Pappy’s is popular with locals, as well as out of towners and celebrity types etc so it is always busy. Line moves with good pace. They did expand a while back so not sure when you tried it last. I personally like Pappy’s. (I’m a bit of a Memphis style BBQ person, which is more of a Pappy’s style). Some say a late weekday lunch is a good time to try. I would either do that or get there when they open. Don’t bother late in the day. They serve until they run out.

If waiting in line was an issue, you could have someone wait in line and have someone else run over to do something else. The Fountain on Locust is the next street over from Pappy’s, good food for lunch or dinner, also known for its ice cream. Diagonally across the street is Vito’s for pizza and pasta. And up around the corner is the theater/arts district. And of course SLU’s campus is next to Pappy’s on the South and West sides. But make Pappy’s a lunch spot not dinner. Save dinner for those other ones or Retreat Gastro Pub if you are near that area.

So, Bogart’s is the closest to it in style and ownership, in the Soulard. Soulard is one of the better walkable Irish Pub meets French Quarter neighborhoods in town. You can park and walk to many restaurants and bars, big farmer’s market. McGurk’s has long been a local favorite (and one of mine) for their huge outdoor beer garden with lots of scenery and greenery. Inside is red brick and pretty cool too but make sure you go out back outside. Tucker’s is popular for casual dress steak and potato or a burger immediately next door to McGurk’s. It’s more of a dinner spot. Good place to have a drink outside. Soulard is one of my favorite neighborhoods.  McGurk’s has an Irish menu so that is hit or miss for some. You may want to just drink and sit outside there and eat at one of the other many nearby places. That’s probably what I would do.

The Wood Shack and Jack Nolen’s are also popular pub burger spots in Soulard.

If you venture just beyond Soulard to Benton Park, as mentioned, lots of Mexican restaurants. It’s like the Milwaukee Mexican restaurant area on the Southside a little bit. That same neighborhood has a really good pizza place called Melo’s. And, immediately next to it is a great lunch sandwich spot called Blues City Deli. They play live music, and there will be a swift moving line, but, it will have a line. It will be crowded. Lunch only. The rest are night spots. Peacemaker Lobster is a casual but expensive seafood place. You are after all flying in fresh stuff from the coasts. It’s a $20+ Lobster roll type of spot that may not fill you up without adding something else. But the quality is high end. You’ll have to spend a few bucks there or skip it.

Salt + Smoke is good, different than Pappy’s, and, it has a brand new location across the street from Busch Stadium behind center field. Very convenient for your ball game. Nice views and people watching there. It has multiple floors indoor/outdoor and is a big space. You’d be able to get in there as a pre or post game meal. You can’t miss it. It’s located inside the brand new high rise apartment tower that looks into the stadium from center field. Speaking of the game, it’s a bit of a summer time thing to go to Ted Drewe’s Frozen Custard after, in South City.

Sugarfire Smoke House has a Washington Ave location. That’s the loft district over by the dome but walkable from Busch. It’s also good. And if the wait is the issue, either here or Salt+Smoke should be easier than Pappy’s or Bogart’s.

Beast Butcher & Block is a good BBQ spot in Forest Park Southeast/near the Grove.If you are near the Botanical Gardens that would be a good try over there.

But I wouldn’t let the line deter you for Pappy’s. Go either first thing or an off hour mid afternoon weekday as more of a sweet spot. It is pretty good bbq. Closest thing to it would be Bogart’s in Soulard. The others are all good but different from each other. The Sugarfire people also own Hi Pointe Drive In down by Wash Ave as well. They offer burgers on their menu in addition to their bbq as the others don’t.

Just remember, Pappy’s and Bogart’s are lunch only recs up until mid later afternoon. The others are lunch or dinner, day or night. All of them are pretty popular.

And there are many other types of cuisine recs based on type of cuisine and location. I have a favorite quick, fast casual grab and go Mediterranean place called Medina which is on Washington Ave. etc…

[shoothoops]

shoothoops - This is a great list and I think I'm ready for another visit and a Cards game (on my to do list).
City Museum is different and interesting.  I forgot about that.

Galway - One more thing if you like history.  I visited Cahokia Mounds, the earthen Pyramids.  It's a 15 minute drive from DT St. Louis.  Everything is extremely flat and it's very weird to walk to the top of the main mound and be able to see the St. Louis skyline.

Thanks. The Mounds are a really good tip for history buffs and really anyone. Very unique. That may be a must stop for him. 1,000 years before European contact. One of the largest prehistoric site in America North of Mexico. National Historic Landmark. Museum, exhibits, theater, galleries. You will want to drive here as the mix of public transit is a bit more of a pain. But it isn’t too far.

I was actually hoping the new MLS soccer team would name their team Mound City Stars after the Native American people in Cahokia and the Negro League and former NASL outdoor soccer league St. Louis Stars. But they wanted St. Louis and City in the name for marketing purposes and to emphasize the city of St. Louis.

It is as you say a short highway drive. I focused mostly on things in the city. There are other good side excursions as well, Meramec Cave Caverns, or Augusta MO wineries. (There’s a guy who is currently spending over ) $100 million adding to everything that already exists there.

I also forgot about the National Blues Museum downtown as well.

I don’t even know how to describe City Museum to someone who hasn’t been. You will probably love it or hate it but many love it.

The Museum underground under the Arch has a Lewis and Clark Expedition, Westward Expansion type of feel but other things too.

By the way, I forgot he has Galway in his name. He really needs to hit up McGurk’s in Soulard for an outdoor beverage if he has Galway in his name. Beer garden is in the back. (I’ve spent a bit of time of at The Quays and the like in Galway, Ireland.) 

[cheebs09]

Thanks again for the recommendations Chili and Wags. They were both great.

It was our first time exploring western Michigan and it is a very beautiful place.

[dgies9156]

Typically you probably can’t and don’t want to drive in Rome. Parking in Florence is pricey.
https://romevacationtips.com/12-reasons-shouldnt-hire-car-rome/

But driving through the Tuscan countryside is amazing. Take back roads, you will be amazed at what you find.
Any chance of training between Florence and Rome?

Great time to go. If you do Pompeii, get a guide or join a tour. Herculaneum is less crowded but as impressive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herculaneum

We actually opted to spend more time in Rome instead of Naples.  Rome has so much to explore.
My advice to almost everyone going to Europe is "You are going to too many places". And I speak from experience. We did a similar itinerary of yours, except replace Naples with Venice and a return out of Milan. We were exhausted by the end.

Oh and since good beer is in short supply in Italy, visit "Ma che siete venuti a fà" for some great beers.  https://www.football-pub.com/
As an ale drinker, we like ReAle made in Italy.

We are training between Rome and Florence. We will not get a car until we're in the countryside. Want to poke

I misspoke -- we are going to Venice this trip.

Probably will drive to Venice and then drop the car there. Train will waste an etnire day.

[JWags85]

We are training between Rome and Florence. We will not get a car until we're in the countryside. Want to poke

I misspoke -- we are going to Venice this trip.

Probably will drive to Naples and then drop the car there. Train will waste an etire day.

At the risk of sounding stereotypical, this is probably a great time to go to Venice as I imagine the huge tourist ships dumping heaps of Asian tourists every day won't be operating as usual.  The uniqueness and history of Venice is ruined by the tourist trap nature of so much of it these days, but that is exponentially exacerbated by the huge tour groups that come off the cruise ships and roam around like lemmings.

[dgies9156]

shoothoops - This is a great list and I think I'm ready for another visit and a Cards game (on my to do list).

Does anything else in St. Louis really matter?

Cardinal games always have been worth the trip, this year somewhat less than other years. It's the best thing about St. Louis, by far!

[Dr. Blackheart]

Probably will drive to Venice and then drop the car there. Train will waste an etnire day.

Pro trip: Driving in Venice will end up being catastrophic. About as bad as laboring through a horrible Cardinals game in 100% St. Louis summer humidity.

[shoothoops]

Does anything else in St. Louis really matter?

Cardinal games always have been worth the trip, this year somewhat less than other years. It's the best thing about St. Louis, by far!

Sports? Well, that depends on your interests.

The Stanley Cup Parade mattered enough to a million people two years ago at the parade.

https://twitter.com/pdpj/status/1140598047816265728?s=21

But if you are just talking about sports this week or this summer…

The new MLS soccer team broke a season ticket deposit record within 24 hours of going on sale. Here’s how that is going the past few weeks:

https://twitter.com/stlcitysc/status/1407698835401580545?s=21

https://twitter.com/soccermadeinstl/status/1306641790171217920?s=21

The U.S. Gymnastics Trials last month at the dome broke the previous attendance record.

https://twitter.com/ackerman1120/status/1409304361055010817?s=21

The USYS U13-U19 boys and girls regionals last month were pretty popular with people from 14 states. Next week’s U14-U17 boys ECNL National Championships at WWT Park will be pretty popular.

If you need a Big East fix, Dikembo Mutombo is in town there this week visiting Jahidi White selling his new coffee line:

https://twitter.com/earlaustinjr/status/1414618079548559365?s=21

If 4 year multi-billion dollar NFL lawsuits are your thing, maybe swing by the courts building this week:

https://twitter.com/ben_fred/status/1414807238095552513?s=21

But yes, with regards to sports, the Cardinals are always a popular good choice, fun, with lots going on in the neighborhood(s). He’ll have a good time there.

Looks like 80’s and sunny much of his visit. That’s a good opportunity for those many outdoor activities previously mentioned such as Forest Park, Missouri Botanical Gardens, Cahokia Mounds, Soulard, Wash Ave, Central West End, Midtown, etc…check for concert listing at The Pageant, Delmar  Hall, and the like. I think Thomas Rhett is the outdoor amphitheater headliner there this weekend. Kevin C Johnson would good to hit up for info regarding various venue shows. https://twitter.com/kevincjohnson/status/1412835147028783104?s=21

[shoothoops]

Pro trip: Driving in Venice will end up being catastrophic. About as bad as laboring through a horrible Cardinals game in 100% St. Louis summer humidity.

Since the Cardinals have had one losing record season in over twenty years, I’ll guess you’re a Cubs fan.

While I personally prefer 365 days of sunny, 80 degree weather with low humidity weather myself, (it can rain overnight to keep everything green) I’ll take sunny, hot, humid weather over cold weather any day.

It looks like he’ll get the former on much of his trip.

[Billy Hoyle]

Suggestions for St Louis? Hitting up side project but that's it so food, breweries, etc please!

Duck in certain neighborhoods. Do not go north of Delmar.

I noticed you mentioned burgers. O'Connell's is an institution. Check it out. https://www.oconnells-pub.com/

[thebigjake]

St. Louis has a wide variety of types of pizza. Many people in Chicago don’t either eat deep dish pizza, or eat it only once in a while, as opposed to frequently or all the time. Chicago of course has several other types of pizza as well. St. Louis isn’t any different.

Although it was pretty fun during the recent U.S. Olympic Trials held in St. Louis, when Simone Biles lavished her praise not only for Stl style pizza, but also for the provel version of it.

https://twitter.com/simone_biles/status/1409915138640072705?s=21

The provel "pizza" they sell in St. Louis is disgusting. Just my opinion.  Some solid rib joints down there though

[Hards Alumni]

At the risk of sounding stereotypical, this is probably a great time to go to Venice as I imagine the huge tourist ships dumping heaps of Asian tourists every day won't be operating as usual.  The uniqueness and history of Venice is ruined by the tourist trap nature of so much of it these days, but that is exponentially exacerbated by the huge tour groups that come off the cruise ships and roam around like lemmings.

And the cruise ships won't be back at all starting 8/1

[warriorchick]

The U.S. Gymnastics Trials last month at the dome broke the previous attendance record.

https://twitter.com/ackerman1120/status/1409304361055010817?s=21

Chick jr. and I had tickets and an AirBnB lined up to see this, but when they switched it from the hockey arena to the Football stadium, we took a pass.  We watched it on TV instead of being 50 yards away from the action.  Got seats for when the post-Olympic tour hits
Milwaukee instead.