Wojo's seat

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Sure some might transfer. I do not see Howard and Sam burning a year in college when they are both going to be making money off the sport. I also don't see all 3 freshman transferring. (infact if Wojo was fired I'd only see Eke likely to transfer.)

Eke would be the least likely to leave.

[onepost]

Wojo's seat is ice cold.  With the guys coming in next year and the young guys we have now (outside of a polarizing Rowsey our team is solely freshmen and sophomores) gaining more experience there's a 0% chance anything is even DISCUSSED before the end of next year.

So why, AGAIN, is this even a discussion?  It's an annoying loss to a decent Georgia team with our best player saddled with foul trouble and our second best option playing his worst game to date: let's chill the unnatural carnal knowledge out.  God damn't this place is insufferable like 90% of the time.

[skianth16]

I've said this a number of times in regards to the Wojo hire and his mediocre-at-best performance since coming on board - Why does Marquette have to be a place where unproven coaches come to cut their teeth?

Prior to his hiring, we were consistently a top 25 program, all but guaranteed to make the tournament, and turning out pro prospects on a pretty regular basis. And on top of the on-court performance, we had great attendance numbers and committed a ton of money to the program. To me, this sounds like a destination job, or at least a job that could be pitched as such. I don't get why so many fans (ie- Scoopers) are content with the current product and with the Wojo learning curve.

I'll agree (for now) that it wouldn't do the program much good to cut him loose now, so he's obviously not going anywhere. But at what point will the "wait til next year" crew begin to want a change? Is just making the tournament going to be enough next year? Or should there be higher expectations? In general, can you only fire a coach when he doesn't have a decent recruiting class coming in? By the assumptions of many on here, if there is a good recruit or two waiting in the wings, it's too risky to move on to a new coach. So at what point is a change in direction ever acceptable?

Last thought - I loved the blue collar attitude of the Buzz era. I thought it was a great brand of basketball. I do recognize that the administration has to be concerned with more than just wins and losses, but did the university decide that an image makeover was more important for the school than having a strong basketball program?

[Hubert Davis]

Agreed. Don't even let him finish the season.

Then, after we go 14-17 this year, and a bunch of guys transfer, and the recruits go elsewhere, you can get all "honest" with us again 3-4 years from now and say: Fire (Insert Coach's Name).

Perfect!

82, you are right. That is EXACTLY what would happen. I should change my tune and I will (because I know they won't actually FIRE Wojo and it probably would set us back even more). I'll just start saying WOJO SUCKS.

Wojo sucks. Go Marquette

[Galway Eagle]

I've said this a number of times in regards to the Wojo hire and his mediocre-at-best performance since coming on board - Why does Marquette have to be a place where unproven coaches come to cut their teeth?

Prior to his hiring, we were consistently a top 25 program, all but guaranteed to make the tournament, and turning out pro prospects on a pretty regular basis. And on top of the on-court performance, we had great attendance numbers and committed a ton of money to the program. To me, this sounds like a destination job, or at least a job that could be pitched as such. I don't get why so many fans (ie- Scoopers) are content with the current product and with the Wojo learning curve.

I'll agree (for now) that it wouldn't do the program much good to cut him loose now, so he's obviously not going anywhere. But at what point will the "wait til next year" crew begin to want a change? Is just making the tournament going to be enough next year? Or should there be higher expectations? In general, can you only fire a coach when he doesn't have a decent recruiting class coming in? By the assumptions of many on here, if there is a good recruit or two waiting in the wings, it's too risky to move on to a new coach. So at what point is a change in direction ever acceptable?

Last thought - I loved the blue collar attitude of the Buzz era. I thought it was a great brand of basketball. I do recognize that the administration has to be concerned with more than just wins and losses, but did the university decide that an image makeover was more important for the school than having a strong basketball program?

I feel like everybody you view as the wait till next year crew has flat out said literally next year is the year we're waiting for for two years now. If it's a first round exit but a top 2 finish I'll chalk it up to tournament experience and say it was a great season. If it's like last year and we barely make it and we lose out right away that's a different story.

[skianth16]

I feel like everybody you view as the wait till next year crew has flat out said literally next year is the year we're waiting for for two years now. If it's a first round exit but a top 2 finish I'll chalk it up to tournament experience and say it was a great season. If it's like last year and we barely make it and we lose out right away that's a different story.

That's been the tune this year. But last year, there were a lot of folks who seemed to think that a tournament appearance last year was proof of going in the right direction and that this year would be a continuance of that progress.

[Galway Eagle]

That's been the tune this year. But last year, there were a lot of folks who seemed to think that a tournament appearance last year was proof of going in the right direction and that this year would be a continuance of that progress.

We must be keying in on different posters but those I remember knew as soon as four years ago that theoretically losing Burton, Dawson, Johnson and Fischer in one year would cause a massive drop off this year. Sure it didn't play out like that but still figured a similar step back.

[Dr. Blackheart]

82, you are right. That is EXACTLY what would happen. I should change my tune and I will (because I know they won't actually FIRE Wojo and it probably would set us back even more). I'll just start saying WOJO SUCKS.

Wojo sucks. Go Marquette

"Just suck, baby!"

[GGGG]

That's been the tune this year. But last year, there were a lot of folks who seemed to think that a tournament appearance last year was proof of going in the right direction and that this year would be a continuance of that progress.

Many people predicted a step back this year.

[GGGG]

Maybe Calipari. Or Roy Williams. Or Bill Self.

The whole "fire Wojo" thing is dopier beyond dopiness because it simply isn't going to happen, so why not get crazy dopey?

The correct Scoop jargon is "kooky."

[dgies9156]

When reading through these comments on Wojo, the vision seems to be the following:

1) We hate losing.

2) We have an inferior product again this year. How much more are we going to have to take?

3) Wojo runs a clean program where the athletes graduate, but we're concerned about how many people transfer.

4) What does the university want from the program.

What concerns me is whether the university is willing to put up with the type of personality associated with a Top 10 basketball program. Some of Al's exploits would have made Bobby Knight look like a choir boy. The Hillbilly certainly had his issues. Personalities often win, but at a consequence the University elders think is too high.

My fear is the costs of being a national champion for today's MU may be more than the university wants to pay, particularly on a non-financial basis. Just a thought but, well, we'll see!

[GGGG]

There are plenty of examples of top 10 coaches who have fine personalities. Wright. Izzo. 

You don't think MU would put up with Wojo if he turned out like his mentor?

[connie]

To be fair, MU put up with a lot from the hillbilly.  Times have changed and I doubt they would do so with Wojo or anyone else.

[brewcity77]

Many people predicted a step back this year.

I think most felt this year would be similar or maybe a slight improvement. Next year is the Wojo equivalent of what 2014 was supposed to be for Buzz.

There's the core of upperclassmen...

2014 - Vander Blue, Davante Gardner, Jamil Wilson, Todd Mayo, Juan Anderson

2019 - Haanif Cheatham, Matt Heldt, Sacar Anim, Markus Howard, Sam Hauser

There's the "missing link" transfer...

2014 - Jameel McKay

2019 - Ed Morrow

There's the impact recruits...

2014 - Duane Wilson, Deonte Burton, Jajuan Johnson

2019 - Joey Hauser, Brendan Bailey

And legitimate depth...

2014 - Chris Otule, Derrick Wilson, Jake Thomas, Steve Taylor

2019 - Theo John, Jamal Cain, Greg Elliott

Now obviously tons went wrong in 2014. Blue and McKay left (similar to Cheatham). Jamil and Mayo couldn't make the transition from starter to star, and the guys we thought would be supporting cast members had to play major minutes. That disaster led to Buzz's departure.

Hopefully 2018 goes better than 2014 did, but it has a similar near-limitless ceiling type of feel. Buzz got that year and botched it. Here's hoping Wojo does more with that chance.

[6ft 1in Center]

As someone whose freshman year was Buzz's last, I view Wojo's seat as cool.

[bilsu]

I agree with this. Everyone calling for Wojo's head right now - what's the alternative? Who do we bring in?

There is not a good alternative. I am not sure why MU is not attractive to a proven coach. We consistently hire assistants. Raymonds, Majerus, O'Neal, Crean, Buzz and Wojo. The last hires from the head coaching ranks were Dukiet and Dean and they both got fired. Between Raymonds and Wojo the assistants all left for other jobs.

[skianth16]

As someone whose freshman year was Buzz's last, I view Wojo's seat as cool.

That's like a vegetarian who has never even eaten meat saying life without ribeyes ain't so bad.

[rocky_warrior]

Prior to his hiring, we were consistently a top 25 program, all but guaranteed to make the tournament

That's revising history!  You must have blacked out during Buzz's last year. 

[GGGG]

That's revising history!  You must have blacked out during Buzz's last year. 

He's been revising history all day.

[MU82]

That's revising history!  You must have blacked out during Buzz's last year.

Given how much I drank that season, I blacked out quite regularly.

[skianth16]

That's revising history!  You must have blacked out during Buzz's last year.

Oh, pardon me. Only 8 out of 9 years prior to Wojo were we a solid competitive team consistently making the tournament. That one oopsie should clearly make me rethink our standards. Anyone looking at a single bad year as defense for Wojo's inadequacies is just making excuses at this point.

[1SE]

I'm no Wojo fanboy (indeed, if I recall ,this thread is a duplication!) but he's still on track for this year. 18-12, First Four, seems like a very reachable feat this year if Harry can do anything. That's the benchmark I'm evaluating against. If we make it there, that's fine, let's bring on bigger and better things in 2018-2019. If we miss NCAA but have a solid little NIT run, I'm not thrilled, but still on board with seeing how 2018-2019 pans out. If we're safely in (and even win one), then Wojo has exceeded expectations and I'm really positive about the trajectory of the program.

If we finish sub-500 (especially if it's markedly so) I think there is reasonable grounds for having a conversation about THIS year. It's all about performing to expectations with the talent you have. I don't think ANYONE here would argue that Wojo has, to date, EXCEEDED the expectations given the teams he's had. At best he's been meeting them and probably has been under-performing (missing the post-season completely with a 1st round pick and a few decent supporting pieces - although I get some of that might have been scheduling which maybe wasn't entirely in his control?).

Of course a transition at the end of the year would be disruptive, but no more so than one the following year. Promote Stan and try to hang on to as much of team/continuity as possible.

Hanging on for one more year can be a sunk cost fallacy. Once you think Wojo has plateaued you want to cut bait ASAP. Waiting for the "right time" to fire a coach is folly, there is no "right time" and you want to start a rebuild as quickly as possible. According to the logic of many people here, we'll never fire Wojo as long as he has a promising recruiting class coming in. But at some point we have to look at his track record with those classes and evaluate how he's been performing to expectations. 

But like I said, I still see us as on track for expectations this year. Let's revive the thread at the end of our season?

Need a W tonight. Go Marquette!

[Galway Eagle]

Oh, pardon me. Only 8 out of 9 years prior to Wojo were we a solid competitive team consistently making the tournament. That one oopsie should clearly make me rethink our standards. Anyone looking at a single bad year as defense for Wojo's inadequacies is just making excuses at this point.

That's more accurate since we weren't actually ranked in 09-10 or 10-11

[GGGG]

Oh, pardon me. Only 8 out of 9 years prior to Wojo were we a solid competitive team consistently making the tournament. That one oopsie should clearly make me rethink our standards. Anyone looking at a single bad year as defense for Wojo's inadequacies is just making excuses at this point.

It would be helpful if you would state your opinion and then back it with facts. 

You keep arguing against points that haven't been made (eg., no one said that Buzz wasn't a better coach than Wojo), and then backing it with hyperbole.

[skianth16]

It would be helpful if you would state your opinion and then back it with facts. 

You keep arguing against points that haven't been made (eg., no one said that Buzz wasn't a better coach than Wojo), and then backing it with hyperbole.

I overstated our record in Madison, but other than that, I don't think there's much exaggeration or hyperbole. Most of what I've said has been pretty straightforward.