Wojo's seat

[MUBurrow]

crapshoot, a1na?

Yeah, I don't want to make major program decisions based on NCAA tournament results.

[Goose]

jsglow

I agree completely with your post. He is nowhere near a hot seat, and probably should not be, especially with the clean program and program making money. I think Wojo has a VERY long leash and everyone on Wisconsin Ave are comfortable with that. If no off court issues, Wojo is good for this year and two more after this year.

Regarding attendance next year, I think MU better be very careful on pricing and expectations. I do not think the joint will cause an MU attendance bounce. The Buck's will be sold out every night and I expect marginal, at best, improvement for MU. Lastly, if Buck's get really good, it will affect Mu attendance next year.

[Pakuni]

Stats can sometimes be misleading. Finishing 32nd in Pomeroy is a great example of that. We were not the 32nd best team in college basketball last year. No, I don't have a statistical or objective way of "proving" this, but from watching the team and seeing the ups and downs on the floor, I just have a hard time believing in that ranking.

Well, the NCAA tournament committee placed MU 39th on their seeding S-curve.
Does that work for you?

Here's my point ... by every objective or unbiased measure I can come up with, Marquette exceeded their preseason expectations last year. So, to me at least, when someone comes here complaining about how they way underperformed, it doesn't jibe with reality.

[mu03eng]

What is the alternative to Wojo? Another highly regarding assistance that may or may not return the program to glory? It's fair to say that Wojo hasn't proven he can put a day in-day out winner on the court, but he also hasn't proven he hasn't. Until he proves that he can't, the risk in changing is much higher than the risk in not changing.

[hairy worthen]

Cute.

But I agree with you 100% here.  I have said it before that I am not sold on Wojo.  I just think expecting growth from last year is unrealistic given what we lost.  (Best offensive post player and two best slashers.)  Is it Wojo's fault that those positions have not been adequately replaced?  100% yes.  It is his fault that MU is completely one-dimensional on offense right now?  Yep.  Is it is his fault that the current players are poor defensively?  No doubt.

Here is what I also think.  First, I think has recognized the short comings.  This year's freshman class includes more slashers than shooters.  Players with more length.  Players with more mobility and quickness.  Second, next year's class includes one of the top players in the country and another player who I think is going to fit in quite nicely.  Third, I think he getting better as a bench coach.

So I am willing to be patient.  I expect improvement next year and the year after.  Substantial improvement.  More balanced scoring.  Better defense.  Finish near the top of the conference.  Second weekend in the NCAAs.

If that doesn't happen next year, the seat should be warm.  After the year after, he should be gone.

love the new screen name btw.

[1SE]

I will say that I have not seen on a regular basis from Wojo the alchemy, the 'it', that makes a team more than the sum of the parts.   He can recruit men of high character and skill.

I agree with this analysis.

But I'm also frustrated by the inconsistency in developing the skill he recruits. Sam and Markus I think have made great strides and are playing "above" their expectations. So far, everyone else, not so much.

[DCHoopster]

I'm going to take a different slant on this.  If, despite the new arena, ticket sales take a plunge next year owing to 1) frustration over many years of mediocre basketball, 2) an overly aggressive price bump, and 3) little to no belief that Joey is the 'savior' in much the same way that HE truly wasn't, then Wojo's seat will get hot in a jiffy.  Now whether the administration would pull a quick trigger on a new 'hot seat' is a different story.  I really can't see a scenario where in March 2019 they made that decision absent a scandal or complete collapse. But the year after that.......?  And Wojo would certainly be under pressure in '19-'20 to win big now.

I'm not sure if it was this thread or another but the post that described the MU Administration's view with regard to 'return on investment' was spot on. He gets paid a lot of money.  He's given considerable resources.  He's expected to run a clean program that produces results.

Lets get something straight, Joey will be a nice player, yes, savior, no way.  Morrow is the key next year, Joey probably will come off the bench.  The fans will flock
to the new arena just to see it, pricing will be higher but compared to the Bucks, a bargain.  I can see MU averaging 15,000 next year.  I would expect Wojo will have
a good recruiting year with the new arena being a big selling point.  Only needs to recruit 2 or 3 players the next 2 years, has the resources to do that.  The year they
lose Morrow, Hauser, Howard, Anim and Froling, now that will be a hard task.  Recruiting is a 365 day job, good luck.  I do not think they make the tournament this year, but the following 2 years they better for Wojo to keep his job.

[Galway Eagle]

I think more people would be OK with a step back, if it was a step back from big time success.  What are we stepping back from?  A 6th place conference finish and a blowout tournament loss as a 10 seed?  It's not like we are reloading after some sweet 16 runs. 

Personally, I get sick of hearing the "wait until next year" stuff because it implies that Wojo hasn't had any talent yet, which I disagree with.  I'm beginning to doubt Wojo some because I think some of his teams so far have underperformed.  Last year's team must have had something like 7-8 former 4 star, top 100 recruits and that doesn't even include guys like Rowsey and Reinhardt who were proven, experienced veterans at the college level.  How many teams around the country had that type of raw talent?  That team should have been better than a one and done 10 seed, IMO.

The year before he had a lot of those same guys and a 5 star one and done lottery talent.  Not even getting a NIT berth with that squad, that was underperforming.  How much talent does he need before MU can compete for a Big East title and a Sweet 16 run?  Sure next year's team looks good on paper but so did the Ellenson team, and so did last year's team.

I'm not a fire Wojo club member right now, but I'm starting to get concerned and have been pretty unimpressed to date.  I wouldn't say his seat should be hot, but it shouldn't be cold either.

So 20 wins was underperforming?

I agree I was extremely disappointed by no bid, however, it has been established that that was squarely on the schedule (or the ref that called the foul for Depaul to win) Wojo does not independently make the schedule so is it not fair to blame the AD as much or more for that lack of a postseason? 

I believe it’s easy to get caught up in focusing on the lack of postseason rather than the results of that year. If you give me a choice between 15-16 and about 4 of our NIT teams I would choose the 15-16 season.

[4everwarriors]

Cute.

But I agree with you 100% here.  I have said it before that I am not sold on Wojo.  I just think expecting growth from last year is unrealistic given what we lost.  (Best offensive post player and two best slashers.)  Is it Wojo's fault that those positions have not been adequately replaced?  100% yes.  It is his fault that MU is completely one-dimensional on offense right now?  Yep.  Is it is his fault that the current players are poor defensively?  No doubt.

Here is what I also think.  First, I think has recognized the short comings.  This year's freshman class includes more slashers than shooters.  Players with more length.  Players with more mobility and quickness.  Second, next year's class includes one of the top players in the country and another player who I think is going to fit in quite nicely.  Third, I think he getting better as a bench coach.

So I am willing to be patient.  I expect improvement next year and the year after.  Substantial improvement.  More balanced scoring.  Better defense.  Finish near the top of the conference.  Second weekend in the NCAAs.

If that doesn't happen next year, the seat should be warm.  After the year after, he should be gone.

Wee recruitin’ some kid named Kook now, hey?

[Goose]

DC Hoopster

If Hauser is coming off the bench it ain't going to be Joey. I would be careful on attendance bump, who is going to go that is not going now? The new arena is going to have more crap going on for everyone to see it. The Buck's owners will give everyone a fair chance to visit the arena, with concerts, wrestling, tractor puuls or any other way to make a buck. In addition, they are screwing MU big time and pricing will be an issue.  I know  more than handful of people that will not partaking in bailing out the crazy lease they agreed to.

[Goose]

4ever

Kook won't play with Cam Marotta, we ain't chasing him.

[MU82]

I'm going to take a different slant on this.  If, despite the new arena, ticket sales take a plunge next year owing to 1) frustration over many years of mediocre basketball, 2) an overly aggressive price bump, and 3) little to no belief that Joey is the 'savior' in much the same way that HE truly wasn't, then Wojo's seat will get hot in a jiffy.  Now whether the administration would pull a quick trigger on a new 'hot seat' is a different story.  I really can't see a scenario where in March 2019 they made that decision absent a scandal or complete collapse. But the year after that.......?  And Wojo would certainly be under pressure in '19-'20 to win big now.

I'm not sure if it was this thread or another but the post that described the MU Administration's view with regard to 'return on investment' was spot on. He gets paid a lot of money.  He's given considerable resources.  He's expected to run a clean program that produces results.

Thanks, glow, for putting my thoughts on this topic into words. Excellent summary of where I stand on Wojo, too.

I am bullish on Wojo, but like any other professional, he has to produce in his job. I think he's done "fine" so far. It's not unreasonable for any of us to want better than "fine" long-term. I strongly believe his team will deliver in 2018-19 and 2019-20.

If not, we are Marquette, and we can do better.

As an aside, except for a little pissing contest between a coupla posters, this thread has exceeded my expectations after having started it. I appreciate the discussion, everybody!

Go Marquette!

[Galway Eagle]

DC Hoopster

If Hauser is coming off the bench it ain't going to be Joey. I would be careful on attendance bump, who is going to go that is not going now? The new arena is going to have more crap going on for everyone to see it. The Buck's owners will give everyone a fair chance to visit the arena, with concerts, wrestling, tractor puuls or any other way to make a buck. In addition, they are screwing MU big time and pricing will be an issue.  I know  more than handful of people that will not partaking in bailing out the crazy lease they agreed to.

Out of curiosity goose who do you expect the starters to be next year? Markus Sam and Morrow seem like locks to me. At 2, 3 and 4. So where do you see Joey starting?

[4everwarriors]

Solid, goose

[Loose Cannon]

Wee recruitin’ some kid named Kook now, hey?

Name just Happened from a Bird, I expect.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

When Wojo was hired, if you would have told me year 4 would be a bubble year I would have said that's not good enough.  But I can also reshape my expectations year by year as new information arises.  Such as:

1) Henry's one and done year leaving a hole this long.  Wojo miscalculated that Henry would have a negative affect on Levin transferring out and finding a replacement for Henry, like Kyle Washington or Xavier Tillman, was harder than expected.  Luckily, Wojo back filled with transfers Froling and Morrow.  But we're still a couple weeks away from Froling being eligible and Morrow is almost a year away.  So the hole remains for now.

2) Cheatham didn't develop as hoped.  Combine that with missing out on Amir Coffey and Wojo has another hole.  Cain and Elliott have nice potential but they're not instant impact frosh, so we're left waiting for them to develop and for Sam to be able to move to SF next year when Morrow is eligible.

3) Howard reclassifying.  You take that talent every time but it also set up a two year overlap of Rowsey and Howard, which lead to Carter transferring.  Hard to play 3 sub-6 foot guards together.  Now we have another whole.  Wojo missed on Grimes and Elliott's development remains to be seen.  Hopefully Wojo can find a guard to help shore up the backcourt.

The other thing is, I recognize the progress Wojo has made.  I can be excited for the future.  But I can also see the holes on this roster.  I will add that I'm not thrilled with every strategic move Wojo's made, especially defensive scheme.  But for now, I'll keep watching the process and see where it takes us.

[brewcity77]

What is the alternative to Wojo? Another highly regarding assistance that may or may not return the program to glory? It's fair to say that Wojo hasn't proven he can put a day in-day out winner on the court, but he also hasn't proven he hasn't. Until he proves that he can't, the risk in changing is much higher than the risk in not changing.

This is simple and concise. Anyone who is satisfied with where the program is at has too low of expectations, but anyone that thinks things would magically improve by changing coaches is simply delusional. We have to give Wojo at least this year and 2 more at this point to see how things play out. If we aren't solidly a tournament team in 2019 and 2020 and feeling confident as we go into single elimination games in March, then it might be time for a change. Until then, we need to wait and see.

When Wojo was hired, if you would have told me year 4 would be a bubble year I would have said that's not good enough.  But I can also reshape my expectations year by year as new information arises.  Such as:

1) Henry's one and done year leaving a hole this long.  Wojo miscalculated that Henry would have a negative affect on Levin transferring out and finding a replacement for Henry, like Kyle Washington or Xavier Tillman, was harder than expected.  Luckily, Wojo back filled with transfers Froling and Morrow.  But we're still a couple weeks away from Froling being eligible and Morrow is almost a year away.  So the hole remains for now.

2) Cheatham didn't develop as hoped.  Combine that with missing out on Amir Coffey and Wojo has another hole.  Cain and Elliott have nice potential but they're not instant impact frosh, so we're left waiting for them to develop and for Sam to be able to move to SF next year when Morrow is eligible.

3) Howard reclassifying.  You take that talent every time but it also set up a two year overlap of Rowsey and Howard, which lead to Carter transferring.  Hard to play 3 sub-6 foot guards together.  Now we have another whole.  Wojo missed on Grimes and Elliott's development remains to be seen.  Hopefully Wojo can find a guard to help shore up the backcourt.

The other thing is, I recognize the progress Wojo has made.  I can be excited for the future.  But I can also see the holes on this roster.  I will add that I'm not thrilled with every strategic move Wojo's made, especially defensive scheme.  But for now, I'll keep watching the process and see where it takes us.

I think all of this is pretty fair. I don't think anyone associated with Marquette would've said no to Henry Ellenson, but the ripple effect of his decision was massive. Hopefully Froling and Morrow finally stem that setback, but I still applaud Wojo for swinging for the fences on that one. Development in general, not just Cheatham, is my biggest concern. Love some of these young pieces, but will they be demonstrably better in 1-2 years? And will roster realization lead to better execution of the defense?

As above, it's kind of wait and see right now. At this point, I'm committed to the Wojo plan until at least March 2020 because I think we have to be. Where we go from there is anyone's guess.

[muguru]

Grimm

A+ post

Seconded

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

DC Hoopster

If Hauser is coming off the bench it ain't going to be Joey.

If that is the case, we're going to be playing a pretty large starting line up - Froling, Morrow, Joey, Sam and Markus. If we get a grad transfer PG, either Morrow plays the 5 (which isn't) and Froling to the bench, or the more natural choice would be Joey to the bench.

Love the length of the next years squad though.  A 6-8 Sam at the 2 is super neat.

[jsglow]

Lets get something straight, Joey will be a nice player, yes, savior, no way.  Morrow is the key next year, Joey probably will come off the bench.  The fans will flock
to the new arena just to see it, pricing will be higher but compared to the Bucks, a bargain.  I can see MU averaging 15,000 next year.  I would expect Wojo will have
a good recruiting year with the new arena being a big selling point.  Only needs to recruit 2 or 3 players the next 2 years, has the resources to do that.  The year they
lose Morrow, Hauser, Howard, Anim and Froling, now that will be a hard task.  Recruiting is a 365 day job, good luck.  I do not think they make the tournament this year, but the following 2 years they better for Wojo to keep his job.

Totally agree.

Next year attendance is mostly dependent on this year's success and, more importantly, the ticket prices.  I fear MU is going to overshoot and have a lot of egg on their face necessitating BIG in-season promotions.

Agree.

[Goose]

jsglow

There will not be enough success to equal the price increase on tickets next year. There are going to be a lot of angry folks when they get the bill next year.

[jsglow]

What is the alternative to Wojo? Another highly regarding assistance that may or may not return the program to glory? It's fair to say that Wojo hasn't proven he can put a day in-day out winner on the court, but he also hasn't proven he hasn't. Until he proves that he can't, the risk in changing is much higher than the risk in not changing.

No argument from me.  Oh, and listening to the pod was downright depressing.

[mu03eng]

If that is the case, we're going to be playing a pretty large starting line up - Froling, Morrow, Joey, Sam and Markus. If we get a grad transfer PG, either Morrow plays the 5 (which isn't) and Froling to the bench, or the more natural choice would be Joey to the bench.

Love the length of the next years squad though.  A 6-8 Sam at the 2 is super neat.

If we get a grad transfer PG I will have to adjust, but barring injury or other issue I think the starting 5(line-up/grouping of players with most minutes) will be Markus at the 1/2, Elliot at the 1/2, Sam at the 3, Morrow at the 4, and Froling at the 5. Next most minutes "off the bench" will be Joey and Cain, after that Theo and Sacar and Sir "Not really appearing in this film" will be Matt and Ike. I think we play a lot of "centerless" basketball next season.

[DienerTime34]

jsglow

There will not be enough success to equal the price increase on tickets next year. There are going to be a lot of angry folks when they get the bill next year.

You have confirmation on the price increase? It's already been decided? Please share!

[mu03eng]

No argument from me.  Oh, and listening to the pod was downright depressing.

Any better?

And I did forecast they go 2-0 this week and Gard has never beaten Wojo in the Kohl Hole...what's not to like