MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MU82 on December 02, 2017, 06:33:08 PM
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In other threads, the warmth of Wojo's seat is again a topic of conversation.
I get it, I really do. We all want Marquette to be not just good but great, Wojo is in Year 4, we seem to be taking a step backward after a general upward trend, many of us are frustrated, he doesn't seem to have command of his huddles, we keep making the same mistakes, etc, etc, etc.
But I'm curious to know what the "or else" is.
In other words, let's say we lose the next two games - a mid-major Vermont at home, and on the road against an obviously mediocre-at-best F&cky team. Dozens of Scoopers will declare Wojo's seat to be hot - or at least saying they think it should be. Some might even say something like, "If we don't improve, and quickly, Marquette has to consider going another direction."
Or else what? You will withhold contributions to the MU general fund until Wojo is fired and a "real" coach is hired? You won't use your season tickets for the rest of this season and won't renew for next season? You will refuse to buy any MU gear until we make the NCAAs again? You will email Lovell and/or Scholl to complain - multiple times if you feel you're not being heard? You will go to games and boo the team mercilessly? What?
Over the last couple of years, I have seen comments from some folks and have responded with the one-liner, "Or else what?" I was clearly being snide. I'm not being snide here. I genuinely want to know what actions folks who are frustrated beyond the pale are prepared to do.
Thanks in advance.
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Go out ta dinner, read a book, talk to humans, invest the bread in somethin’ that’ll appreciate, hey?
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This year:
Rowsey/Howard
Howard/Elliott
Anim/Cain
Hauser/Cain/Anim
Heldt/John/Hauser
Next year:
Howard/hopefully a grad transfer
Elliott/Anim/Bailey
S Hauser/Cain/Bailey
J Hauser/Morrow/S Hauser
Morrow/Froling/Heldt/John/Eke
His seat is ice cold if for no other reason than we upgrade gigantically in talent and depth next year. If we aren’t a top 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament next year his seat warmer should be going on. And that team only graduates Heldt.
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Barry said Paul saved da program. Perhaps we knead a water walkin’ dude, hey?
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This year:
Rowsey/Howard
Howard/Elliott
Anim/Cain
Hauser/Cain/Anim
Heldt/John/Hauser
Next year:
Howard/hopefully a grad transfer
Elliott/Anim/Bailey
S Hauser/Cain/Bailey
J Hauser/Morrow/S Hauser
Morrow/Froling/Heldt/John/Eke
His seat is ice cold if for no other reason than we upgrade gigantically in talent and depth next year. If we aren’t a top 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament next year his seat warmer should be going on. And that team only graduates Heldt.
Agree with this. The jury is adjourned this year. Next year is a different story
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Agree with this. The jury is adjourned this year. Next year is a different story
+1
revive this thread near the end of NEXT season
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This year:
Rowsey/Howard
Howard/Elliott
Anim/Cain
Hauser/Cain/Anim
Heldt/John/Hauser
Next year:
Howard/hopefully a grad transfer
Elliott/Anim/Bailey
S Hauser/Cain/Bailey
J Hauser/Morrow/S Hauser
Morrow/Froling/Heldt/John/Eke
His seat is ice cold if for no other reason than we upgrade gigantically in talent and depth next year. If we aren’t a top 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament next year his seat warmer should be going on. And that team only graduates Heldt.
Do you predict Howard will be an effective point guard?
I seem to recall him having difficulty bringing the ball up against pressure. Maybe I'm wrong on this. I hope I'm wrong on this.
We may have increased talent and depth next year, but without an effective PG we will not have an effective offense, especially against pressure.
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In other threads, the warmth of Wojo's seat is again a topic of conversation.
I get it, I really do. We all want Marquette to be not just good but great, Wojo is in Year 4, we seem to be taking a step backward after a general upward trend, many of us are frustrated, he doesn't seem to have command of his huddles, we keep making the same mistakes, etc, etc, etc.
But I'm curious to know what the "or else" is.
In other words, let's say we lose the next two games - a mid-major Vermont at home, and on the road against an obviously mediocre-at-best F&cky team. Dozens of Scoopers will declare Wojo's seat to be hot - or at least saying they think it should be. Some might even say something like, "If we don't improve, and quickly, Marquette has to consider going another direction."
Or else what? You will withhold contributions to the MU general fund until Wojo is fired and a "real" coach is hired? You won't use your season tickets for the rest of this season and won't renew for next season? You will refuse to buy any MU gear until we make the NCAAs again? You will email Lovell and/or Scholl to complain - multiple times if you feel you're not being heard? You will go to games and boo the team mercilessly? What?
Over the last couple of years, I have seen comments from some folks and have responded with the one-liner, "Or else what?" I was clearly being snide. I'm not being snide here. I genuinely want to know what actions folks who are frustrated beyond the pale are prepared to do.
Thanks in advance.
This is exactly what I intend to do...I'm just tired of the program "spinning it's wheels". Honestly, If it weren't for so many losses at home the last few years(to teams they are better or equal to), I might feel differently, but that's the part that is beyond frustrating to me.
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+1
revive this thread near the end of NEXT season
And there it is...the "wait till next year" mantra that's been stated numerous times here.
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start a poll?
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Cool as a cucumber.
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Win or lose, Wojo is not going anywhere.
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Do you predict Howard will be an effective point guard?
I seem to recall him having difficulty bringing the ball up against pressure. Maybe I'm wrong on this. I hope I'm wrong on this.
We may have increased talent and depth next year, but without an effective PG we will not have an effective offense, especially against pressure.
That was the worry and why I hope for a grad transfer at PG. If we can bring that in then he plays the same roll as he has his first 2 years. Start off the ball and be a secondary ball handler.
I was VERY worried about his ability to play the PG effectively early in the year. He has looked capable lately though. But it would still be, in my opinion, the biggest concern for next year if it’s Howard backed up by Elliott.
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How’s Greg Gard’s arse? Maybe Bo will come back from Exile Island, like Fulmer?
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Go out ta dinner, read a book, talk to humans, invest the bread in somethin’ that’ll appreciate, hey?
Bingo, Doc!
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Coach Wojo is what Marquette needs. Super young team, nice class coming in, new building next year. They will be picked as a top 3 team in the conference next season. Still should surprise a few teams this season, but may lose a few games they shouldn't. Lack of depth, youth = mistakes.
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Coach Wojo is what Marquette needs. Super young team, nice class coming in, new building next year. They will be picked as a top 3 team in the conference next season. Still should surprise a few teams this season, but may lose a few games they shouldn't. Lack of depth, youth = mistakes.
This sounds like something a DePaul fan would say.
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Win or lose, Wojo is not going anywhere.
According to you, Wojo can go 0-28 and not loose his job. Since when is he coaching 4th grade soccer?
Since I'm new here, maybe I misunderstood what you are saying. Is your statement an indictment of the MU AD and president? I am not "in the know" about MU's administration and it's expectations for the flagship program of the university but I find it hard to believe that any institution in the Big East would be indifferent about the performance of it's basketball team.
For the record, I feel that Wojo, short of a disaster season (less than 10 wins) should be here next year and hopefully more.
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This year:
Rowsey/Howard
Howard/Elliott
Anim/Cain
Hauser/Cain/Anim
Heldt/John/Hauser
Next year:
Howard/hopefully a grad transfer
Elliott/Anim/Bailey
S Hauser/Cain/Bailey
J Hauser/Morrow/S Hauser
Morrow/Froling/Heldt/John/Eke
His seat is ice cold if for no other reason than we upgrade gigantically in talent and depth next year. If we aren’t a top 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament next year his seat warmer should be going on. And that team only graduates Heldt.
wades, nowhere did I say Wojo is or should be on the hot seat. I don't think he is. I am just curious about what those who feel his seat should be hot are "doing" about it.
guru being guru, he said what he will do - basically, stop acknowledging the existence of Marquette basketball until it's "fixed." Not sure I totally believe him because, based on what he's said for years, he'd be lost without MU hoops. But maybe.
I like knowing what's going on in the noggins of my fellow Scoopers.
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wades, nowhere did I say Wojo is or should be on the hot seat. I don't think he is. I am just curious about what those who feel his seat should be hot are "doing" about it.
guru being guru, he said what he will do - basically, stop acknowledging the existence of Marquette basketball until it's "fixed." Not sure I totally believe him because, based on what he's said for years, he'd be lost without MU hoops. But maybe.
I like knowing what's going on in the noggins of my fellow Scoopers.
I know. I’m saying that even if Wojo doesn’t deserve our faith, the talent next year is undeniable with the obvious need of a PG that can contribute right away. Even if people think Wojo is hopeless, it’s worth seeing how next year goes. And then next year Heldt is our only graduating player, so the year after next should be even better.
This year is going to be frustrating. We’re small and thin. Cheatham leaving was a big blow for this year. But if we can pick up a PG in the offseason it could help us in the long run. I think the early departure of players expected to contribute is an issue and is certainly partly on Wojo. It’s why MU is not where they should be right now. But next year I’m of the belief MU will be where we should be.
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In other threads, the warmth of Wojo's seat is again a topic of conversation.
I get it, I really do. We all want Marquette to be not just good but great, Wojo is in Year 4, we seem to be taking a step backward after a general upward trend, many of us are frustrated, he doesn't seem to have command of his huddles, we keep making the same mistakes, etc, etc, etc.
But I'm curious to know what the "or else" is.
In other words, let's say we lose the next two games - a mid-major Vermont at home, and on the road against an obviously mediocre-at-best F&cky team. Dozens of Scoopers will declare Wojo's seat to be hot - or at least saying they think it should be. Some might even say something like, "If we don't improve, and quickly, Marquette has to consider going another direction."
Or else what? You will withhold contributions to the MU general fund until Wojo is fired and a "real" coach is hired? You won't use your season tickets for the rest of this season and won't renew for next season? You will refuse to buy any MU gear until we make the NCAAs again? You will email Lovell and/or Scholl to complain - multiple times if you feel you're not being heard? You will go to games and boo the team mercilessly? What?
Over the last couple of years, I have seen comments from some folks and have responded with the one-liner, "Or else what?" I was clearly being snide. I'm not being snide here. I genuinely want to know what actions folks who are frustrated beyond the pale are prepared to do.
Thanks in advance.
My "or else" is simple - I'll continue to become less interested. I was a fanatic in the Al years, first as a student, then as a young alum. Never missed a home game, traveled often to see the Warriors. Still rooted for the team in the dark days of Dukiet but only made the Chicago to Milwaukee trip e few times a year. KO got me back on the bandwagon and Buzz got me to make the Chicago to Milwaukee trip 18 times a year again. Now I watch on TV. Still really want our guys to win but I can't get as excited over mediocrity as I do over excellence. OTOH, I'm not emailing the president or the AD about it. If they think Wojo is "the one" I'll wait a couple more seasons hoping they're right.
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Coach Wojo is what Marquette needs. Super young team, nice class coming in, new building next year. They will be picked as a top 3 team in the conference next season. Still should surprise a few teams this season, but may lose a few games they shouldn't. Lack of depth, youth = mistakes.
I doubt the Top 3 conference pick next year.
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Win or lose, Wojo is not going anywhere.
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The administration thinks Wojo walks on water, win or loose since he give the team the right image? I assume winning games is, shall we say, secondary?
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The way we talk with our most spending in college stuff, I think he should be gone. But I also believe in guys getting better. So I actually think that Wojo will improve. And unless we hire Buzz, we’re going to regress.
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The truth is, I don't think MU has much of a chance of finding a coach who is so much better than Wojo that its worth another year of no/practically no recruits as the recruitis that Wojo has for whatever year he's replaced scatter to the winds after he is let go, and the rebuilding process starts all over again.
To get to the next level what this program needs is some Freaking stability.
People forget how almost every school that lets its coach go starts out the the hunt for a replacement with very high expectations only to find that hiring away a top coach is much more difficult then it used to be. How many schools thought they could get Buzz? Shaka? Marshall from Wichita? There are no more McGuires from a Belmont Abbey who are building programs where their team plays all away games because they have no home court.
I like knowing what's going on in the noggins of my fellow Scoopers.
In my case, I believe its spyders spinning webs.
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Win or lose, Wojo is not going anywhere.
[/quote
The administration thinks Wojo walks on water, win or loose since he give the team the right image? I assume winning games is, shall we say, secondary?
More like the administration, unlike most MUScoopers, understands that a complete tear down and rebuild like MU is going through takes a bit of time and patience is necessary.
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More like the administration, unlike most MUScoopers, understands that a complete tear down and rebuild like MU is going through takes a bit of time and patience is necessary.
Dude, it’s a basketball team, not football. This rebuild stuff is old. Can’t have a revolving door of transfers or every year it’s a rebuild. Plenty of coaches in basketball are rolling by year 4. Who know what next year will bring , but if history is any indication, somebody will be leaving so I would not be making big predictions just yet.
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Dude, it’s a basketball team, not football. This rebuild stuff is old. Can’t have a revolving door of transfers or every year it’s a rebuild. Plenty of coaches in basketball are rolling by year 4. Who know what next year will bring , but if history is any indication, somebody will be leaving so I would not be making big predictions just yet.
Who ever said it was football? That’s weird.
I don’t really care what other coaches did with other programs. Obviously different situations.
Thankfully you aren’t the one making decisions around here. If coaches needed to make big splashes by year 3 of their coaching careers some of the greatest coaches in the history of sports would’ve never made it to year 4. Whether you want to be realistic or not, rebuilds take time.
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Firing Wojo before we see what next season has in store would be an unforgivable mistake.
But it’s never gonna happen.
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Front burner on...
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What am I missing?
Stop with the hook shots.
Stop driving into the Redwood forests with midgets.
Don't they have enough data to make those two simple changes?
I don't think coach realizes fully that his team is not DUKE.
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This year:
Rowsey/Howard
Howard/Elliott
Anim/Cain
Hauser/Cain/Anim
Heldt/John/Hauser
Next year:
Here some go again. For some it is perpetually "next year" and "possibly" which is now the Wojo defense mantra. And this year as in past years, a middle of the pack BEast finish. We are fast becoming the mediocrity of the midwest. Wojo needs to be told to produce or move on. But wait..."next year we will be really good"...because a powerpoint demo and the internet told me so. Why settle for BEast championships (after all, it is a great conference with such high majors as Creighton, Butler and Providence) and deep runs in the NCAA, when we can always get a one and done in the NIT.
Howard/hopefully a grad transfer
Elliott/Anim/Bailey
S Hauser/Cain/Bailey
J Hauser/Morrow/S Hauser
Morrow/Froling/Heldt/John/Eke
His seat is ice cold if for no other reason than we upgrade gigantically in talent and depth next year. If we aren’t a top 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament next year his seat warmer should be going on. And that team only graduates Heldt.
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+1
revive this thread near the end of NEXT season
Which will surely happen again this season and surely 10 games into next. And don't call me Surely.
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Do you predict Howard will be an effective point guard?
I seem to recall him having difficulty bringing the ball up against pressure. Maybe I'm wrong on this. I hope I'm wrong on this.
We may have increased talent and depth next year, but without an effective PG we will not have an effective offense, especially against pressure.
Yes, we need to see if Derrick has any eligibility left.
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Win or lose, Wojo is not going anywhere.
Well......that's it then....we are stuck with mediocrity....because Al ain't walking through that door again...or O'Neil, or Crean. So we need to accept 9-9 each year in the BEast. After all, we ain't Wisky with final 4 runs in us.
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The way we talk with our most spending in college stuff, I think he should be gone. But I also believe in guys getting better. So I actually think that Wojo will improve. And unless we hire Buzz, we’re going to regress.
The most spending in college basketball thing isn’t really accurate. Marquette is dedicated to basketball. It’s very obvious.
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Well......that's it then....we are stuck with mediocrity....because Al ain't walking through that door again...or O'Neil, or Crean.
To borrow one of his favorite phrases, Crean would "crawl on his hands and knees from Bloomington to Milwaukee" to get the MU job back. Fortunately, nobody at Marquette wants him.
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Ice cold.
Huge recruiting class next year with some real talented players. (Morrow was a beast in the B1G)
Also, yes it's slow progress but this is technically season 3 of rebuild.
He's doing it right. The administration will keep him for quite a while.
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Wojo is not yet on the hot seat. But there are some things that are concerning.
1) Yesterday's game and, indeed, much of this year, has been a very strong disappointment. The team is still "young" but we are making fundamental mistakes. The turnovers, the sloppiness, poor shot selection, our poor interior game, the fouls and living and dying only by the three ball. Those things are on the coaches. We've had the same problem for three years now and things do not get materially better. To be candid, we made the tournament last year because of an incredible victory over Villanova. Had we had the same record without the Villanova win, we'd have been in the NIT.
2) People talk about expectations. Since the Hillbilly ignited things and moved us closer to where many of us think we should be, seeing our beloved Warriors sink to a very mediocre basketball team that can't beat an even more mediocre team is troublesome. Our expectations should be for an annual tournament berth, competitive for the Big East and competitive for Sweet 16 and Final Four. Some of us, including this Scooper, believe we should be moving toward another banner next to 1977's.
3) I understand rebuilding. Wojo's first year was on on us. We're now in the fourth year. The recruiting has been good, yes. But not good enough to overcome the problems in Item 1, above.
4) For Marquette, expectations translate into attendance and net income. If the enthusiasm isn't there, the attendance and consequently the net income won't be either. We're moving into a new arena and I can bet costs just skyrocketed. If our team continues on its current path, revenues will be down because folks just won't continue to pay to see a very undisciplined, fundamentally mediocre team. The alumni that drives up from Chicago for weekends or stays for the game after a business meeting in Milwaukee will watch on it on TV or, go do the grocery shopping!
I recognize starting over would be a disaster. Wojo is where Majerus was in the mid-1980s, learning on the job. You hope that by staying with him, we end up with what the University of Utah had with our cast-off. I'm also not advocating we go down the start over route because the chances are too high we end up with a new version of Bob Dukiet. That pushes the rebuild out beyond my reasonable expectation for a remaining lifespan.
Yes, I'm frustrated. I bleed blue and gold and remember fondly the "good ole days." I'm hopeful for next year and maybe yet for this year. But I'm NOT a Cub fan and "wait 'til next year" is repugnant.
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Wojo is not yet on the hot seat. But there are some things that are concerning.
1) Yesterday's game and, indeed, much of this year, has been a very strong disappointment. The team is still "young" but we are making fundamental mistakes. The turnovers, the sloppiness, poor shot selection, our poor interior game, the fouls and living and dying only by the three ball. Those things are on the coaches. We've had the same problem for three years now and things do not get materially better. To be candid, we made the tournament last year because of an incredible victory over Villanova. Had we had the same record without the Villanova win, we'd have been in the NIT.
2) People talk about expectations. Since the Hillbilly ignited things and moved us closer to where many of us think we should be, seeing our beloved Warriors sink to a very mediocre basketball team that can't beat an even more mediocre team is troublesome. Our expectations should be for an annual tournament berth, competitive for the Big East and competitive for Sweet 16 and Final Four. Some of us, including this Scooper, believe we should be moving toward another banner next to 1977's.
3) I understand rebuilding. Wojo's first year was on on us. We're now in the fourth year. The recruiting has been good, yes. But not good enough to overcome the problems in Item 1, above.
4) For Marquette, expectations translate into attendance and net income. If the enthusiasm isn't there, the attendance and consequently the net income won't be either. We're moving into a new arena and I can bet costs just skyrocketed. If our team continues on its current path, revenues will be down because folks just won't continue to pay to see a very undisciplined, fundamentally mediocre team. The alumni that drives up from Chicago for weekends or stays for the game after a business meeting in Milwaukee will watch on it on TV or, go do the grocery shopping!
I recognize starting over would be a disaster. Wojo is where Majerus was in the mid-1980s, learning on the job. You hope that by staying with him, we end up with what the University of Utah had with our cast-off. I'm also not advocating we go down the start over route because the chances are too high we end up with a new version of Bob Dukiet. That pushes the rebuild out beyond my reasonable expectation for a remaining lifespan.
Yes, I'm frustrated. I bleed blue and gold and remember fondly the "good ole days." I'm hopeful for next year and maybe yet for this year. But I'm NOT a Cub fan and "wait 'til next year" is repugnant.
what he said.
and there is nothing wrong with goose and 4ever demanding excellence. that's how you become excellent.
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WOJO for not realizing to play Elliott, Rousey, and Howard in 3 guard line up to rain 3's down on those guys.....The time outs.....Everything......
Just a poorly coached game.....
I totally disagree with starting Elliott......You punch them in the nose.....Take that 10 point lead.....and then bring in Elliott.....How many games do we start out on fire and have to let the other team catch up......That is "our" method......The Elliott starting and Howard fouls led to 3 points in the first 5 minutes or something like that......Terrible.....
PS.....How does that Vermont game look now......At least if we lose......It won't be like 30ish like Bucky at home......Gard will be on thin ice.....Especially considering it does not like he is a great recruiter either.....
WOJO clearly not on the hot seat until end of next year......But I think next year will be Sweet 16 min.....
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Or else what? You will withhold contributions to the MU general fund until Wojo is fired and a "real" coach is hired?
This where perspective is important. Giving to the AMF is not a function of basketball wins and losses. It's a function of your belief in what Marquette is doing as a university -- educating and preparing people to lead exemplary lives.
Yes, I'm disappointed by our basketball team so far this year. I'll bet Dr. Lovell is too! At least in some ways. But what I give to Marquette is dependent on the mission of the university and not the wins and losses of our basketball team.
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dgies
I agree with your statement completely. I have stated for years that it would be great to know what school wants from the program. My guy says that aside from a bit more success on the court, they are happy with the program as a whole. I have no problem with it that is the case. My only issue, they give impression that they want to be a big time program, but accept mid level success.
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I have stated for years that it would be great to know what school wants from the program.
Cash flow. As long as the cash flows, the university is getting what it wants and needs. But when it doesn't........
That's what concerns me. For Marquette to get what it needs, it needs strong cash flow from basketball. That's not going to happen if the program languishes too much longer.
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dgies
100% correct across the board. That said, I think they believe the base is there and will keep supporting the program.
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Wojo’s seat is air-conditioned. Next year will be the year he makes it or does not. Until then, carry on.
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what he said.
and there is nothing wrong with goose and 4ever demanding excellence. that's how you become excellent.
random old guys anonymously demanding excellence on an internet forum is how the program will become excellent?????
That's bizarre.
Just in case you are right, I DEMAND EXCELLENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I wouldn't call Wojo seat hot. We lost to #8 Wichita State, Purdue, and Georgia. We are sitting at 5-3. I think we win at least 3 of the next 4 and hopefully 4 out of 4. I haven't really heard of any player sexual assaults, bar fights, or any of that other crap.
I guess it depends on what the Beast season brings. Am I happy with a 500 record in the Beast? I am if it squeaks us into the NCAA tourney again. Man, I will be really disappointed with NIT or some other crappy post season tournament.
Or else? I won't spend my money making the trip to Milwaukee for 3 games a year. I won't watch on tv as much. My expectations are easy to meet because I was on campus during the Mike Deane years and just wishing we would be consistent NCAA.
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Atl MU Warrior
I hope Marquette is a success on and off the court. I believe on court success makes the off court success easier. I am not demanding anything from anyone. Not sure why everyone feels a need to jump on everyone that has a different viewpoint.
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Cash flow. As long as the cash flows, the university is getting what it wants and needs. But when it doesn't........
That's what concerns me. For Marquette to get what it needs, it needs strong cash flow from basketball. That's not going to happen if the program languishes too much longer.
I think a big part of what they want is consistency. Look at the top of the league. Wright has been at Nova 17 years. Mack, Willard, and Cooley are at 9, 8, and 7 years. I don't know if Wojo is the long term answer, but unless we could replace him with a true marquee name, we'd likely be turning the clock back 4 years.
The next two years we'll get the first true glimpses of Wojo's vision. If we become a perennial NCAA team starting in 2019 with the potential for some deep runs, I think that's the hope. If not, then I think they start considering alternatives in 2020.
Patience sucks, but the consensus top-4 in the league all entered the year with coaches that had double Wojo's tenure. Building and sustaining a winner takes a lot of time. We were spoiled by Buzz and burned by his fallout. Wojo is far from perfect to date, but there's enough reason for optimism that I think he still has a couple years of rope left.
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With this season likely heading for March sadness in one form or another .. it's all about future prospects, long and short. Changing head coaches always set a program back a few years, maybe more, so short term is almost always uncomfortable at best.
Something does need to change, though, as we're just treading water as the ~70-100th best team in the country which amounts to bottom feeders in the Big East.
So how do you get a new system without the massive back-step of changing head coaches?
New assistant coach(es.) In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.
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New assistant coach(es.) In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.
This. People ask what should be done short of Wojo getting fired. We should be demanding that one of his coaching buddies leave and be replaced by a veteran defensive minded coach.
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random old guys anonymously demanding excellence on an internet forum is how the program will become excellent?????
That's bizarre.
Just in case you are right, I DEMAND EXCELLENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that's not what I was saying and you know it. what's bizarre is random posters twisting other posters words so they can rip on them.
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Had a conversation with a friend in Chicago who is close to the administration and a few of the significant boosters of the program. Here are a few of his takes.
Wojo has 100% support from all stakeholders. Everyone like the way Wojo conducts his business and are happy with the trajectory of the program. The tourney appearance last year was viewed as a significant validation of his hiring.
That said, he stated that while everyone is happy with the trajectory of the program he does not get the sense that everyone is satisfied with the current performance for different reasons.
The administration's desire for a upper level program is based on a return on investment view point and he said that has been the motivation for years prior to Wojo coming to MU. It's not only a return on dollars but also as a way to elevate the university's public profile to advance academics and the Catholic based mission of MU.
Booster's share the goals of the administration but also, like most here, just love MU basketball and want a winner.
His said, in his opinion, Wojo is very safe right now. He also said that the notion that Wojo's job is safe regardless of wins and losses is "ridiculous". He said the boosters he knows feel that based upon the investment in the program that success at schools like Xavier, Nova, Gonzaga, ND, etc. can be attained at MU.
I should mention, he does not claim to know everyone or everything but in my opinion he's more dialed in than the average fan, like me. His insight may confirm or contradict some opinions or actual knowledge of some posters here. I thought I'd pass it on for fans here to believe or dismiss.
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With all this being said......
We should be superior to Seton Hall and Providence......continually......
Georgetown and St. Johns an equal to. (minimally)....They will get their "footings" back at some point......
And there is no excuse that we should be worse than Butler, Crieghton, and most importantly Xavier.....
We spend more money on basketball than any other school in the Beast!
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Who ever said it was football? That’s weird.
I don’t really care what other coaches did with other programs. Obviously different situations.
Thankfully you aren’t the one making decisions around here. If coaches needed to make big splashes by year 3 of their coaching careers some of the greatest coaches in the history of sports would’ve never made it to year 4. Whether you want to be realistic or not, rebuilds take time.
My point is rebuilding a basketball team is way easier than football. A handful of good players and you could have a competitive team on the floor. By year four I would have hoped we would be competing in the upper half of the BE.
I actually care what other coaches are doing because that is a barometer of how our guys should be doing. If you did not care how other coaches are doing relative to ours, Dukiet would still be here.
I am not advocating nor have ever said we should get rid of Wojo. Not expecting a big splash either. But I am disappointed with the balance of his teams. At the least, by year four how about we have a real point guard?
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With all this being said......
We should be superior to Seton Hall and Providence......continually......
Georgetown and St. Johns an equal to. (minimally)....They will get their "footings" back at some point......
And there is no excuse that we should be worse than Butler, Crieghton, and most importantly Xavier.....
We spend more money on basketball than any other school in the Beast!
Why?
Seton Hall is close to New York. They are all small Catholic Schools. There is nothing that gives MU an advantage, except that we probably spend more money. Our spending is likely to decrease, because our attendance is falling. History does not matter much. How many prospective recruits' parents are even old enough to have watched MU win its national title in 1977. Basically, all of us here have a built in bias towards MU, which means nothing in the real world. I am sure Providence fans think they should be better than MU.
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New assistant coach(es.) In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.
I agree with this. Truthfully if my butt was on the line for the success of the program - I would have done it last year.
To 82s question - I will be going to less games this year. Still do one in MKE but won't do any of the northeast games this year. Bball is one of my primary connections to MU as an institution, so not saying my donation will change but where I spend my free time does impact where I place donations (typically).
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He ain't stone cold and he ain't flaming out...but the front burner is on. New arena, people. That will be Wojo's and Lovell's vote since they are inexorably tied.
If MU is charging Duke driven pricing, you best damn deliver a demand-driven experience. If MU is just assuming the base will come along, I think the fall from hubris will be a lesson learned. With the change up of the ticket priority points system to a seat license program, it will be easier for fans to take their personal treasure elsewhere. In the past, it was easier just to reup and hope for next year. Not so for next.
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With this season likely heading for March sadness in one form or another .. it's all about future prospects, long and short. Changing head coaches always set a program back a few years, maybe more, so short term is almost always uncomfortable at best.
Something does need to change, though, as we're just treading water as the ~70-100th best team in the country which amounts to bottom feeders in the Big East.
So how do you get a new system without the massive back-step of changing head coaches?
New assistant coach(es.) In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.
I think the landscape is changing. When Wojo became coach he was able to recruit in Wisconsin, because he was new and Bo was old. I felt the last two years Gard had the advantage, because he was the new kid on the block with a program riding the high of two straight final fours. Gard being able to take UW to two straight sweet 16's also gave him an advantage in recruiting Wisconsin players. Look what is happening now. Gard was not able to take Joey away from MU and Herro decommitted. His team got destroyed by a less than steller Ohio St. team at home last night. Watching that game made me think that it is more likely that Gard gets fired before Wojo.
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With this season likely heading for March sadness in one form or another .. it's all about future prospects, long and short. Changing head coaches always set a program back a few years, maybe more, so short term is almost always uncomfortable at best.
Something does need to change, though, as we're just treading water as the ~70-100th best team in the country which amounts to bottom feeders in the Big East.
So how do you get a new system without the massive back-step of changing head coaches?
New assistant coach(es.) In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.
To be fair, Rob Judson was brought in this past off season as Wojo's Special Assistant. Long-term assistant, prior head coaching experience. Stan and Brett have been strong on the recruiting trail. I think your key point is defensive system. Wojo has installed the Duke defense (with MU talent) that even K has moved away from.
The "Defense Problem" is on Wojo, frankly. I yearn for a Wojo team to play Marquette defense.
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This sounds like something a DePaul fan would say.
My expectations for this year were NIT. Froling is the wild card, now the transfer a new wild card. If a major injury happens, then everything changes.
Next year looks great if no one decides they are NBA ready when they are not. Morrow is a stud. Second Hauser comes in. Brendan Bailey will surprise you all. The current freshmen with a year under their belt, Ike will also have a year of practice. We should be really good next year. This is a mini-rebuild year. Losing your center in Luke, a 5th year Grad Student Reinhardt, Jajuan Johnson, a senior in Duane Wilson, then the transfer midseason is going to take time. We are talented, but thin and undersized. Your expectations were obviously much higher than mine, but that doesn't mean they are at DePaul level.
Hot seat? Not with next year's talent on the horizon. We stubbed our toe one time this season, and that was yesterday with major foul trouble.
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New assistant coach(es.) In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.
Not sure how many people realize it, but I do think Wojo has already tried to address this. He brought Rob Judson on this past August.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/080117aaa.html
Judson was previously head coach at Northern Illinois and has been an assistant more recently under Tim Jankovich at Illinois State and Tom Crean at Indiana. I'm not sure if he's the defensive specialist we need, but he is the veteran coach (coaching at the collegiate level since the late 1980s) that many seem to be clamoring for.
I realize that the results might not be there yet, but I think what everyone wants is something the staff is already trying to address. I think the simple truth is that nothing outside maybe bringing on MU82 (who I assume has experience teaching height) will turn Rowsey and Howard into good defenders. It's really frustrating. Our 2PFG defense is a black hole of miserableness. It's easy to drive on us and our bigs are not great shot-blockers when drivers do get through. Yes, we are just outside the top-100 in block percentage, but a ton of that is down to a 6'3" freshman guard who accounts for 31.3% of our blocks.
I hate to say it, but I think this year might be a replay of the back half of last year where our entire goal is to simply outscore the opposition. We'll have more length next year with Froling, Morrow, Joey, Bailey, and Eke available. Hopefully we can land a grad transfer point guard with more size and defensive acumen than Rowsey, and Markus will be the only guy we really have to hide on defense. But for now, we need Rowsey and Howard for the offense to function, and our defense will suffer because of their presence on the floor.
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what he said.
and there is nothing wrong with goose and 4ever demanding excellence. that's how you become excellent.
LOL. No. Fans demanding excellence on a message board is not how MU becomes excellent.
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Had a conversation with a friend in Chicago who is close to the administration and a few of the significant boosters of the program. Here are a few of his takes.
Wojo has 100% support from all stakeholders. Everyone like the way Wojo conducts his business and are happy with the trajectory of the program. The tourney appearance last year was viewed as a significant validation of his hiring.
That said, he stated that while everyone is happy with the trajectory of the program he does not get the sense that everyone is satisfied with the current performance for different reasons.
The administration's desire for a upper level program is based on a return on investment view point and he said that has been the motivation for years prior to Wojo coming to MU. It's not only a return on dollars but also as a way to elevate the university's public profile to advance academics and the Catholic based mission of MU.
Booster's share the goals of the administration but also, like most here, just love MU basketball and want a winner.
His said, in his opinion, Wojo is very safe right now. He also said that the notion that Wojo's job is safe regardless of wins and losses is "ridiculous". He said the boosters he knows feel that based upon the investment in the program that success at schools like Xavier, Nova, Gonzaga, ND, etc. can be attained at MU.
I should mention, he does not claim to know everyone or everything but in my opinion he's more dialed in than the average fan, like me. His insight may confirm or contradict some opinions or actual knowledge of some posters here. I thought I'd pass it on for fans here to believe or dismiss.
There is zero doubt that everyone involved, including Wojo, expects winning at the highest levels. Boosters, administration, fans, etc.
The question is how much patience should people have? Two years after this one seems reasonable to me given the pieces in place.
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Agree with this. The jury is adjourned this year. Next year is a different story
Disco concurs
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There is zero doubt that everyone involved, including Wojo, expects winning at the highest levels. Boosters, administration, fans, etc.
The question is how much patience should people have? Two years after this one seems reasonable to me given the pieces in place.
I agree two more years is prudent given the prospect of the incoming players and assuming the level of play improves with said talent. I really like the freshmen so far and the fact that they were not top 50 recruits is a testament to the staff being able to find top level talent that is not on everyone's radar.
I'll quibble slightly with your assertion that Wojo "expects winning at the highest level"; not that it false but that it is a bit of a straw man assertion. Of course he does. He would not be here today (or on Coach K's staff for years) if he did not. I believe our attorney friends would say that this is a "stipulated fact". Thus I do not feel anyone should feel the need to defend Wojo based upon his desire to win. People fail at endeavors to succeed even though they have poured their hearts and souls into them, myself included.
Not now but possibly in the future MU may come to the conclusion that Wojo, while a terrific human being and a proven top level assistant coach, may not be a high major head coach.
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The signing of Henry Ellenson along with his brother Wally had everyone on this board ecstatic. Who could pass up a 5 star recruit. However I believe signing Henry has set the program back at least a year, perhaps more. I am willing to give Wojo two more seasons to make us at least competitive with other teams in the top of the BE. However, I am concerned with the mid-year transfers which cannot but hurt the program in the long term. Like some here have stated what the program needs is stability not turmoil.
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Wojo’s seat is air-conditioned. Next year will be the year he makes it or does not. Until then, carry on.
If his seat is air conditioned then that blower should be pushed way up his kielbasa.
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If his seat is air conditioned then that blower should be pushed way up his kielbasa.
No Love Woody, Willie?
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Why?
Seton Hall is close to New York. They are all small Catholic Schools. There is nothing that gives MU an advantage, except that we probably spend more money. Our spending is likely to decrease, because our attendance is falling. History does not matter much. How many prospective recruits' parents are even old enough to have watched MU win its national title in 1977. Basically, all of us here have a built in bias towards MU, which means nothing in the real world. I am sure Providence fans think they should be better than MU.
Even with our falling attendance, MU has substantially more support for its men's basketball program (both form an administrative and fan support perspective) than Seton Hall and St. John's combined. Neither program gets the cream of the crop of NYC area recruits nor have they for a very long time......not since Lou Carnesecca / PJ Carlessimo were their respective head coaches. I live in the NYC metro area so I have some perspective. Unlike MU, Both of those schools have substantial commuter populations.....perhaps 50% and student fan support suffers significantly as a result. Seton Hall plays their home games in Newark which is a good 35 minutes away from their campus and St. John's plays half their home games at MSG, which admittedly has some advantages but because it takes almost an hour to get to MSG from their campus in Queens via public transportation, it's not their students who typically attend those games, just college basketball enthusiasts generally. St John's' on campus facility where they play the other half of their games is akin to a large high school gym . Anyone that lives in the greater NYC metro area knows that Syracuse is the real college basketball king in NYC despite their campus being five hours away from NYC proper. Villanova is a close second given Philadelphia's proximity to NYC and UCONN a distant third, but the point I'm making is Syracuse, Villanova and UCONN all have a much larger followings in the NYC area than Seton Hall or Saint John's. Marquette's fan support could drop by 30% and it would still be more than either of those two schools combined. All that said, I agree that having more administrative and fan support doesn't give us a right to be better than either of those programs in any given season, but it should. At least in theory.
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The signing of Henry Ellenson along with his brother Wally had everyone on this board ecstatic. Who could pass up a 5 star recruit. However I believe signing Henry has set the program back at least a year, perhaps more. I am willing to give Wojo two more seasons to make us at least competitive with other teams in the top of the BE. However, I am concerned with the mid-year transfers which cannot but hurt the program in the long term. Like some here have stated what the program needs is stability not turmoil.
I was thinking this same thing. Wally and Henry consumed 3 years of scholarships for which we got a NBA guy for one year when we didn't have the other talent to win. If those ships had been used on simply high major freshman recruits (like Morrow for instance) They'd be upperclassmen now and we wouldn't be rebuilding in year 4. Then if Traci had stayed we'd have a junior distributor type PG right now and our glaring weakness that we all agree has to be filled by a Grad transfer next year would already be on the team. If anything Wojo gambled to win now more than he should have in hindsight. So certainly he gets 2 more years. I really hope that we'll see a team where guys are willing to stay here for 4 years whatever their role is.
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LOL. No. Fans demanding excellence on a message board is not how MU becomes excellent.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? Read my post and find where it says fans demanding excellence makes mu excellent. In general, in life, striving for excellence creates excellence. settling for mediocrity makes you mediocre. Stop parsing posters words and then criticizing them for what you claim they say.
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I was thinking this same thing. Wally and Henry consumed 3 years of scholarships for which we got a NBA guy for one year when we didn't have the other talent to win. If those ships had been used on simply high major freshman recruits (like Morrow for instance) They'd be upperclassmen now and we wouldn't be rebuilding in year 4. Then if Traci had stayed we'd have a junior distributor type PG right now and our glaring weakness that we all agree has to be filled by a Grad transfer next year would already be on the team. If anything Wojo gambled to win now more than he should have in hindsight. So certainly he gets 2 more years. I really hope that we'll see a team where guys are willing to stay here for 4 years whatever their role is.
I don't agree with any of this. Wojo would have been an idiot to decline brining Henry in. And why should we expect Marquette to the exception to the rule (re: frequency of transfers)?
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Getting Henry was a big win for Wojo. I think it was a great get and well worth the effort.
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Do you have reading comprehension problems? Read my post and find where it says fans demanding excellence makes mu excellent. In general, in life, striving for excellence creates excellence. settling for mediocrity makes you mediocre. Stop parsing posters words and then criticizing them for what you claim they say.
You should lay off the two-bit "leadership" books for awhile.
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I don't agree with any of this. Wojo would have been an idiot to decline brining Henry in. And why should we expect Marquette to the exception to the rule (re: frequency of transfers)?
Getting Henry was a big win for Wojo. I think it was a great get and well worth the effort.
Exactly. A big, early recruiting win. Plus it was fun to watch him when he was here.
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You should lay off the two-bit "leadership" books for awhile.
Goose is right you are a kook and I don't get into pissing matches with kooks so bye bye now.
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Goose is right you are a kook and I don't get into pissing matches with kooks so bye bye now.
Apparently, I once "demanded kookiness."
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Apparently, I once "demanded kookiness."
Make Marquette Kookie Again
#MMKA
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I don't agree with any of this. Wojo would have been an idiot to decline brining Henry in. And why should we expect Marquette to the exception to the rule (re: frequency of transfers)?
You like salt water?
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that's not what I was saying and you know it. what's bizarre is random posters twisting other posters words so they can rip on them.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? Read my post and find where it says fans demanding excellence makes mu excellent. In general, in life, striving for excellence creates excellence. settling for mediocrity makes you mediocre. Stop parsing posters words and then criticizing them for what you claim they say.
If you want respect, be a man and own what you said, instead of going after others who comprehended very well what those words were.
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Make Marquette Kookie Again
#MMKA
Since we're on the subject, I think Coach Wojo needs to find his inner Kook. Like when Coach Al went into full-crazed Warrior mode and admonished the team that he'd "killzz" them if they don't shape up. Wojo is going to prove to be a keeper, but he needs to know he's not in Raleigh-Durham anymore. The staid, button-down approach that is successful there needs tweaking to succeed in Milwaukee. You don't have to be "Al 2.0" (and no, Buzz was NOT).
Be yourself, Coach. Marquette and the Milwaukee community not only allows a little eccentricity, it embraces it. Take a technical when your star guard gets called for his 2nd ticky-tac foul within the first 2 minutes. Practice horrible and not near expectations? Walk out on em...take a couple "left turns."
Do it your way....jaw with JP Macura mid-game when he inevitably crosses a boundary of taste, then tell him in the handshake line that he's forever a "made man" in these parts for his Madison gator chomp.
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If you want respect, be a man and own what you said, instead of going after others who comprehended very well what those words were.
Wrong, and I sure as hell I'm not looking for respect from anyone on a fan board. Go back and look at who is going after who. My original statement was not derogatory or disrespectful to anyone, but some poster's responses were derogatory to me.
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hairy
Well said.
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Wrong, and I sure as hell I'm not looking for respect from anyone on a fan board. Go back and look at who is going after who. My original statement was not derogatory or disrespectful to anyone, but some poster's responses were derogatory to me.
Nobody is "going after" you. Stop being a victim.
You wrote something very clearly that was also very clearly silly. That's it.
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Wrong, and I sure as hell I'm not looking for respect from anyone on a fan board. Go back and look at who is going after who. My original statement was not derogatory or disrespectful to anyone, but some poster's responses were derogatory to me.
Your statement was a trite cliche. Sorry for pointing that out.
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Guys, lets all just be completely honest with each other. Wojo has led us to nowhere and nothing. Besides stability in the athletic department and a one and done NCAA tourney birth last season, his tenure has been pretty pedestrian. Enter year FOUR and here we are talking about NEXT season, what PG we need to recruit, can't play defense etc. It's bizarre. Wojo=nice guy, former player, assistant coach. Wojo also =not a very good head coach.
Fire Wojo
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To answer the original question, I express my support for the coach/program with season tickets and donation dollars. This year's team seems to be fatally flawed, but I already purchased season tickets, so I'm putting each game up for sale.
Although I've definitely turned anti-Wojo (poor roster construction, no ability to teach defense, needs great players -- hasn't shown the ability to "coach up" a team of misfits ) I acknowledge I'm excited about next year's roster. I'm still planning to renew my season tickets and acknowledge firing Wojo would set our program back ANOTHER four years. I think Year No. 5 will be Wojo's best, I just wish we didn't have to suffer with some of the abominations we've seen on the court (Nebraska-Omaha, Iowa, etc.) in the past few years.
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We've had some lows with Wojo so far. But it's interesting how quickly some folks forgot about Nova.
No, that one win is not enough to justify anything. But if you're going to provide evidence for "firing" or being "anti-wojo", need to acknowledge both sides.
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Matt Heldt
Ed Morrow
Sacar Anim
Ike Eke
Harry Froling (probably)
That's likely our roster starting point if Wojo is fired after this year. So even though Wojo hasn't proven he definitely is the guy, he gets at least one more year. Deal with it.
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Matt Heldt
Ed Morrow
Sacar Anim
Ike Eke
Harry Froling (probably)
That's likely our roster starting point if Wojo is fired after this year. So even though Wojo hasn't proven he definitely is the guy, he gets at least one more year. Deal with it.
Did Markus Howard jump ship somewhere? Along with Elliot and cain?
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I can't imagine why anyone would want Wojo's seat to be even remotely hot right now. Fire Wojo to do what exactly? Bring in a guy with Wojo's exact credentials but a different last name, without the recruiting victories, and a sense that we'll can him in four years without a Sweet 16 even if the future looks bright? Great.
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Did Markus Howard jump ship somewhere? Along with Elliot and cain?
My roster was assuming Wojo is fired. Howard hypothetically transfers out west (Arizona, ASU, UCLA, USC, etc). Sam and Joey decide between Michigan State and Virginia. Greg, Jamal, and Theo likely transfer.
Do you think they are staying if Wojo is fired? I highly doubt it.
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Guys, lets all just be completely honest with each other. Wojo has led us to nowhere and nothing. Besides stability in the athletic department and a one and done NCAA tourney birth last season, his tenure has been pretty pedestrian. Enter year FOUR and here we are talking about NEXT season, what PG we need to recruit, can't play defense etc. It's bizarre. Wojo=nice guy, former player, assistant coach. Wojo also =not a very good head coach.
Fire Wojo
Agreed. Don't even let him finish the season.
Then, after we go 14-17 this year, and a bunch of guys transfer, and the recruits go elsewhere, you can get all "honest" with us again 3-4 years from now and say: Fire (Insert Coach's Name).
Perfect!
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Agreed. Don't even let him finish the season.
Then, after we go 14-17 this year, and a bunch of guys transfer, and the recruits go elsewhere, you can get all "honest" with us and say: Fire (Insert Coach's Name).
Perfect!
It’s the Al Davis way.
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My roster was assuming Wojo is fired. Howard hypothetically transfers out west (Arizona, ASU, UCLA, USC, etc). Sam and Joey decide between Michigan State and Virginia. Greg, Jamal, and Theo likely transfer.
Do you think they are staying if Wojo is fired? I highly doubt it.
Sure some might transfer. I do not see Howard and Sam burning a year in college when they are both going to be making money off the sport. I also don't see all 3 freshman transferring. (infact if Wojo was fired I'd only see Eke likely to transfer.)
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I can't imagine why anyone would want Wojo's seat to be even remotely hot right now. Fire Wojo to do what exactly? Bring in a guy with Wojo's exact credentials but a different last name, without the recruiting victories, and a sense that we'll can him in four years without a Sweet 16 even if the future looks bright? Great.
I agree with this. Everyone calling for Wojo's head right now - what's the alternative? Who do we bring in?
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I agree with this. Everyone calling for Wojo's head right now - what's the alternative? Who do we bring in?
Maybe Calipari. Or Roy Williams. Or Bill Self.
The whole "fire Wojo" thing is dopier beyond dopiness because it simply isn't going to happen, so why not get crazy dopey?
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Sure some might transfer. I do not see Howard and Sam burning a year in college when they are both going to be making money off the sport. I also don't see all 3 freshman transferring. (infact if Wojo was fired I'd only see Eke likely to transfer.)
Agree to disagree, I guess. No matta since Wojo isn't getting fired this year.
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Sure some might transfer. I do not see Howard and Sam burning a year in college when they are both going to be making money off the sport. I also don't see all 3 freshman transferring. (infact if Wojo was fired I'd only see Eke likely to transfer.)
Eke would be the least likely to leave.
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Wojo's seat is ice cold. With the guys coming in next year and the young guys we have now (outside of a polarizing Rowsey our team is solely freshmen and sophomores) gaining more experience there's a 0% chance anything is even DISCUSSED before the end of next year.
So why, AGAIN, is this even a discussion? It's an annoying loss to a decent Georgia team with our best player saddled with foul trouble and our second best option playing his worst game to date: let's chill the unnatural carnal knowledge out. God damn't this place is insufferable like 90% of the time.
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I've said this a number of times in regards to the Wojo hire and his mediocre-at-best performance since coming on board - Why does Marquette have to be a place where unproven coaches come to cut their teeth?
Prior to his hiring, we were consistently a top 25 program, all but guaranteed to make the tournament, and turning out pro prospects on a pretty regular basis. And on top of the on-court performance, we had great attendance numbers and committed a ton of money to the program. To me, this sounds like a destination job, or at least a job that could be pitched as such. I don't get why so many fans (ie- Scoopers) are content with the current product and with the Wojo learning curve.
I'll agree (for now) that it wouldn't do the program much good to cut him loose now, so he's obviously not going anywhere. But at what point will the "wait til next year" crew begin to want a change? Is just making the tournament going to be enough next year? Or should there be higher expectations? In general, can you only fire a coach when he doesn't have a decent recruiting class coming in? By the assumptions of many on here, if there is a good recruit or two waiting in the wings, it's too risky to move on to a new coach. So at what point is a change in direction ever acceptable?
Last thought - I loved the blue collar attitude of the Buzz era. I thought it was a great brand of basketball. I do recognize that the administration has to be concerned with more than just wins and losses, but did the university decide that an image makeover was more important for the school than having a strong basketball program?
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Agreed. Don't even let him finish the season.
Then, after we go 14-17 this year, and a bunch of guys transfer, and the recruits go elsewhere, you can get all "honest" with us again 3-4 years from now and say: Fire (Insert Coach's Name).
Perfect!
82, you are right. That is EXACTLY what would happen. I should change my tune and I will (because I know they won't actually FIRE Wojo and it probably would set us back even more). I'll just start saying WOJO SUCKS.
Wojo sucks. Go Marquette
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I've said this a number of times in regards to the Wojo hire and his mediocre-at-best performance since coming on board - Why does Marquette have to be a place where unproven coaches come to cut their teeth?
Prior to his hiring, we were consistently a top 25 program, all but guaranteed to make the tournament, and turning out pro prospects on a pretty regular basis. And on top of the on-court performance, we had great attendance numbers and committed a ton of money to the program. To me, this sounds like a destination job, or at least a job that could be pitched as such. I don't get why so many fans (ie- Scoopers) are content with the current product and with the Wojo learning curve.
I'll agree (for now) that it wouldn't do the program much good to cut him loose now, so he's obviously not going anywhere. But at what point will the "wait til next year" crew begin to want a change? Is just making the tournament going to be enough next year? Or should there be higher expectations? In general, can you only fire a coach when he doesn't have a decent recruiting class coming in? By the assumptions of many on here, if there is a good recruit or two waiting in the wings, it's too risky to move on to a new coach. So at what point is a change in direction ever acceptable?
Last thought - I loved the blue collar attitude of the Buzz era. I thought it was a great brand of basketball. I do recognize that the administration has to be concerned with more than just wins and losses, but did the university decide that an image makeover was more important for the school than having a strong basketball program?
I feel like everybody you view as the wait till next year crew has flat out said literally next year is the year we’re waiting for for two years now. If it’s a first round exit but a top 2 finish I’ll chalk it up to tournament experience and say it was a great season. If it’s like last year and we barely make it and we lose out right away that’s a different story.
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I feel like everybody you view as the wait till next year crew has flat out said literally next year is the year we’re waiting for for two years now. If it’s a first round exit but a top 2 finish I’ll chalk it up to tournament experience and say it was a great season. If it’s like last year and we barely make it and we lose out right away that’s a different story.
That's been the tune this year. But last year, there were a lot of folks who seemed to think that a tournament appearance last year was proof of going in the right direction and that this year would be a continuance of that progress.
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That's been the tune this year. But last year, there were a lot of folks who seemed to think that a tournament appearance last year was proof of going in the right direction and that this year would be a continuance of that progress.
We must be keying in on different posters but those I remember knew as soon as four years ago that theoretically losing Burton, Dawson, Johnson and Fischer in one year would cause a massive drop off this year. Sure it didn’t play out like that but still figured a similar step back.
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82, you are right. That is EXACTLY what would happen. I should change my tune and I will (because I know they won't actually FIRE Wojo and it probably would set us back even more). I'll just start saying WOJO SUCKS.
Wojo sucks. Go Marquette
“Just suck, baby!”
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That's been the tune this year. But last year, there were a lot of folks who seemed to think that a tournament appearance last year was proof of going in the right direction and that this year would be a continuance of that progress.
Many people predicted a step back this year.
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Maybe Calipari. Or Roy Williams. Or Bill Self.
The whole "fire Wojo" thing is dopier beyond dopiness because it simply isn't going to happen, so why not get crazy dopey?
The correct Scoop jargon is “kooky.”
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When reading through these comments on Wojo, the vision seems to be the following:
1) We hate losing.
2) We have an inferior product again this year. How much more are we going to have to take?
3) Wojo runs a clean program where the athletes graduate, but we're concerned about how many people transfer.
4) What does the university want from the program.
What concerns me is whether the university is willing to put up with the type of personality associated with a Top 10 basketball program. Some of Al's exploits would have made Bobby Knight look like a choir boy. The Hillbilly certainly had his issues. Personalities often win, but at a consequence the University elders think is too high.
My fear is the costs of being a national champion for today's MU may be more than the university wants to pay, particularly on a non-financial basis. Just a thought but, well, we'll see!
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There are plenty of examples of top 10 coaches who have fine personalities. Wright. Izzo.
You don’t think MU would put up with Wojo if he turned out like his mentor?
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To be fair, MU put up with a lot from the hillbilly. Times have changed and I doubt they would do so with Wojo or anyone else.
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Many people predicted a step back this year.
I think most felt this year would be similar or maybe a slight improvement. Next year is the Wojo equivalent of what 2014 was supposed to be for Buzz.
There's the core of upperclassmen...
2014 - Vander Blue, Davante Gardner, Jamil Wilson, Todd Mayo, Juan Anderson
2019 - Haanif Cheatham, Matt Heldt, Sacar Anim, Markus Howard, Sam Hauser
There's the "missing link" transfer...
2014 - Jameel McKay
2019 - Ed Morrow
There's the impact recruits...
2014 - Duane Wilson, Deonte Burton, Jajuan Johnson
2019 - Joey Hauser, Brendan Bailey
And legitimate depth...
2014 - Chris Otule, Derrick Wilson, Jake Thomas, Steve Taylor
2019 - Theo John, Jamal Cain, Greg Elliott
Now obviously tons went wrong in 2014. Blue and McKay left (similar to Cheatham). Jamil and Mayo couldn't make the transition from starter to star, and the guys we thought would be supporting cast members had to play major minutes. That disaster led to Buzz's departure.
Hopefully 2018 goes better than 2014 did, but it has a similar near-limitless ceiling type of feel. Buzz got that year and botched it. Here's hoping Wojo does more with that chance.
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As someone whose freshman year was Buzz's last, I view Wojo's seat as cool.
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I agree with this. Everyone calling for Wojo's head right now - what's the alternative? Who do we bring in?
There is not a good alternative. I am not sure why MU is not attractive to a proven coach. We consistently hire assistants. Raymonds, Majerus, O'Neal, Crean, Buzz and Wojo. The last hires from the head coaching ranks were Dukiet and Dean and they both got fired. Between Raymonds and Wojo the assistants all left for other jobs.
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As someone whose freshman year was Buzz's last, I view Wojo's seat as cool.
That's like a vegetarian who has never even eaten meat saying life without ribeyes ain't so bad.
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Prior to his hiring, we were consistently a top 25 program, all but guaranteed to make the tournament
That's revising history! You must have blacked out during Buzz's last year.
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That's revising history! You must have blacked out during Buzz's last year.
He's been revising history all day.
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That's revising history! You must have blacked out during Buzz's last year.
Given how much I drank that season, I blacked out quite regularly.
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That's revising history! You must have blacked out during Buzz's last year.
Oh, pardon me. Only 8 out of 9 years prior to Wojo were we a solid competitive team consistently making the tournament. That one oopsie should clearly make me rethink our standards. Anyone looking at a single bad year as defense for Wojo's inadequacies is just making excuses at this point.
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I'm no Wojo fanboy (indeed, if I recall ,this thread is a duplication!) but he's still on track for this year. 18-12, First Four, seems like a very reachable feat this year if Harry can do anything. That's the benchmark I'm evaluating against. If we make it there, that's fine, let's bring on bigger and better things in 2018-2019. If we miss NCAA but have a solid little NIT run, I'm not thrilled, but still on board with seeing how 2018-2019 pans out. If we're safely in (and even win one), then Wojo has exceeded expectations and I'm really positive about the trajectory of the program.
If we finish sub-500 (especially if it's markedly so) I think there is reasonable grounds for having a conversation about THIS year. It's all about performing to expectations with the talent you have. I don't think ANYONE here would argue that Wojo has, to date, EXCEEDED the expectations given the teams he's had. At best he's been meeting them and probably has been under-performing (missing the post-season completely with a 1st round pick and a few decent supporting pieces - although I get some of that might have been scheduling which maybe wasn't entirely in his control?).
Of course a transition at the end of the year would be disruptive, but no more so than one the following year. Promote Stan and try to hang on to as much of team/continuity as possible.
Hanging on for one more year can be a sunk cost fallacy. Once you think Wojo has plateaued you want to cut bait ASAP. Waiting for the "right time" to fire a coach is folly, there is no "right time" and you want to start a rebuild as quickly as possible. According to the logic of many people here, we'll never fire Wojo as long as he has a promising recruiting class coming in. But at some point we have to look at his track record with those classes and evaluate how he's been performing to expectations.
But like I said, I still see us as on track for expectations this year. Let's revive the thread at the end of our season?
Need a W tonight. Go Marquette!
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Oh, pardon me. Only 8 out of 9 years prior to Wojo were we a solid competitive team consistently making the tournament. That one oopsie should clearly make me rethink our standards. Anyone looking at a single bad year as defense for Wojo's inadequacies is just making excuses at this point.
That’s more accurate since we weren’t actually ranked in 09-10 or 10-11
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Oh, pardon me. Only 8 out of 9 years prior to Wojo were we a solid competitive team consistently making the tournament. That one oopsie should clearly make me rethink our standards. Anyone looking at a single bad year as defense for Wojo's inadequacies is just making excuses at this point.
It would be helpful if you would state your opinion and then back it with facts.
You keep arguing against points that haven't been made (eg., no one said that Buzz wasn't a better coach than Wojo), and then backing it with hyperbole.
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It would be helpful if you would state your opinion and then back it with facts.
You keep arguing against points that haven't been made (eg., no one said that Buzz wasn't a better coach than Wojo), and then backing it with hyperbole.
I overstated our record in Madison, but other than that, I don't think there's much exaggeration or hyperbole. Most of what I've said has been pretty straightforward.
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We must be keying in on different posters but those I remember knew as soon as four years ago that theoretically losing Burton, Dawson, Johnson and Fischer in one year would cause a massive drop off this year. Sure it didn’t play out like that but still figured a similar step back.
I think more people would be OK with a step back, if it was a step back from big time success. What are we stepping back from? A 6th place conference finish and a blowout tournament loss as a 10 seed? It's not like we are reloading after some sweet 16 runs.
Personally, I get sick of hearing the "wait until next year" stuff because it implies that Wojo hasn't had any talent yet, which I disagree with. I'm beginning to doubt Wojo some because I think some of his teams so far have underperformed. Last year's team must have had something like 7-8 former 4 star, top 100 recruits and that doesn't even include guys like Rowsey and Reinhardt who were proven, experienced veterans at the college level. How many teams around the country had that type of raw talent? That team should have been better than a one and done 10 seed, IMO.
The year before he had a lot of those same guys and a 5 star one and done lottery talent. Not even getting a NIT berth with that squad, that was underperforming. How much talent does he need before MU can compete for a Big East title and a Sweet 16 run? Sure next year's team looks good on paper but so did the Ellenson team, and so did last year's team.
I'm not a fire Wojo club member right now, but I'm starting to get concerned and have been pretty unimpressed to date. I wouldn't say his seat should be hot, but it shouldn't be cold either.
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Grimm
A+ post
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I agree with this. Everyone calling for Wojo's head right now - what's the alternative? Who do we bring in?
I'm not sure anyone other than Al Davis is calling for Wojo's head.
There's a lot of frustration in here. Many of us want something that appears just outside of reach -- a return to glory. We are asking for consideration of adjustments that would facilitate the return.
Sending Wojo back to the Research Triangle would set us back at least five and probably 10 years. And it would drive us crazy if we sent him packing and he ended up taking someplace like the University of Utah to the Final Four.
Please don't confuse frustration with irrational acts.
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There's a lot of frustration in here. Many of us want something that appears just outside of reach -- a return to glory. We are asking for consideration of adjustments that would facilitate the return.
Frankly, I would accept a return to solid program status (top half of conference, tourney nearly every year, Top 30 kenpom).
I will deal with glory later.
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I think more people would be OK with a step back, if it was a step back from big time success. What are we stepping back from? A 6th place conference finish and a blowout tournament loss as an 11 seed? It's not like we are reloading after some sweet 16 runs.
Personally, I get sick of hearing the "wait until next year" stuff because it implies that Wojo hasn't had any talent yet, which I disagree with. I'm beginning to doubt Wojo some because I think some of his teams so far have underperformed. Last year's team must have had something like 7-8 former 4 star, top 100 recruits and that doesn't even include guys like Rowsey and Reinhardt who were proven, experienced veterans at the college level. How many teams around the country had that type of raw talent? That team should have been better than a one and done 11 seed, IMO.
The year before he had a lot of those same guys and a 5 star one and done lottery talent. Not even getting a NIT berth with that squad, that was underperforming. How much talent does he need before MU can compete for a Big East title and a Sweet 16 run? Sure next year's team looks good on paper but so did the Ellenson team, and so did last year's team.
I'm not a fire Wojo club member right now, but I'm starting to get concerned and have been pretty unimpressed to date. I wouldn't say his seat should be hot, but it shouldn't be cold either.
+1
I guess this is where I am at right now. In Wojo’s defense though, it looks like he is doing things the “right” way and also building for long term success. That’s what makes me be a little more patient. I will sacrifice how long it takes to get there if it can be sustainable over a long time. I liked Buzz and always defended him, but he burned hot and you could see what he was doing was going to flame out. (So I better go back and read my post before sending so the board Nazis call me out on something.)
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+1
I guess this is where I am at right now. In Wojo’s defense though, it looks like he is doing things the “right” way and also building for long term success. That’s what makes me be a little more patient. I will sacrifice how long it takes to get there if it can be sustainable over a long time. I liked Buzz and always defended him, but he burned hot and you could see what he was doing was going to flame out. (So I better go back and read my post before sending so the board Nazis call me out on something.)
I think the proper term is "Intelligencia"
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hairy
One of my gripes was pointed out by Grimm. Last year's team way under performed IMO. Far from a FF team, but aside from Villanova win there were a lot of clunkers. I thought post 'Nova they might have something and they didn't. I'd give last year a C for a grade. Going back to a D this year would taste better if last year was B or B+.
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My only issue with Grimm's post is he stated we finished 6th in the conference last year., and he's not the first to say that.
We finished tied for 3rd, got the 4 seed in the BET, and were seeded in front of Xavier and Providence in the NCAA tournament. In no way did we finish 6th, unless you're saying Nova and Butler were 1/2 and then nobody placed 3rd, 4th or 5th, which doesn't make much sense.
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I think the proper term is "Intelligencia"
Wait, I thought we established the term as kook.
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hairy
One of my gripes was pointed out by Grimm. Last year's team way under performed IMO. Far from a FF team, but aside from Villanova win there were a lot of clunkers. I thought post 'Nova they might have something and they didn't. I'd give last year a C for a grade. Going back to a D this year would taste better if last year was B or B+.
Revisionist history.
Last year, Marquette was picked to finish 7th in the Big East, and was predicted to go 18-11 overall, 9-9 in conference, by Pomeroy. Pomeroy had them 47th overall. Lunardi had them as a "next four out" for the tournament.
They ended up winning more games overall, more games in conference, finished 32nd overall in Pomeroy's rankings and earned a 6 seed in the tourney.
In what world is this not just underperforming, but "way" underperforming?
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Pakuni
Revisionist history per you. I think they had decent talent and played lousy more often than they should have. After 'Nova they were hit and miss. So much so, that folks on here were BEGGING for Matt Heldt to play over Luke.
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hairy
One of my gripes was pointed out by Grimm. Last year's team way under performed IMO. Far from a FF team, but aside from Villanova win there were a lot of clunkers. I thought post 'Nova they might have something and they didn't. I'd give last year a C for a grade. Going back to a D this year would taste better if last year was B or B+.
I'm going to remain optimistic about this year. We can't criticize something that hasn't happened yet. Someone said building a program to success isn't always linear and that may be true we will see. Every good team takes a step down but we haven't taken the step up yet to justify the step down. That's a good point by grimm.
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Pakuni
Revisionist history per you. I think they had decent talent and played lousy more often than they should have. After 'Nova they were hit and miss. So much so, that folks on here were BEGGING for Matt Heldt to play over Luke.
Got it. So even though they exceeded just about every objective preseason expectation (record, conference finish, Pomeroy, tournament status), they actually underperformed because some knuckleheads on Scoop thought Heldt should play over Luke.
Makes a lot of sense when you put it that way.
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Pakuni
Come on. Did last year disappoint you at with the results? I was not devastated with the result, but definitely thought they left some room for improvement. Everything is not black and white. A tad more success last year (which I believe was possible) would make this year easier.
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I will say that I have not seen on a regular basis from Wojo the alchemy, the 'it', that makes a team more than the sum of the parts. He can recruit men of high character and skill.
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Pakuni
Come on. Did last year disappoint you at with the results? I was not devastated with the result, but definitely thought they left some room for improvement. Everything is not black and white. A tad more success last year (which I believe was possible) would make this year easier.
You're asking two very different questions.
No, last year did not disappoint me with the results. I went into the season thinking MU was a bubble team that could finished .500 in the conference, and they exceeded that.
Not winning any tournament games was a disappointment, but they ran into a white-hot SC team in the first round. It happens.
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+1
I guess this is where I am at right now. In Wojo’s defense though, it looks like he is doing things the “right” way and also building for long term success. That’s what makes me be a little more patient. I will sacrifice how long it takes to get there if it can be sustainable over a long time. I liked Buzz and always defended him, but he burned hot and you could see what he was doing was going to flame out. (So I better go back and read my post before sending so the board Nazis call me out on something.)
Cute.
But I agree with you 100% here. I have said it before that I am not sold on Wojo. I just think expecting growth from last year is unrealistic given what we lost. (Best offensive post player and two best slashers.) Is it Wojo's fault that those positions have not been adequately replaced? 100% yes. It is his fault that MU is completely one-dimensional on offense right now? Yep. Is it is his fault that the current players are poor defensively? No doubt.
Here is what I also think. First, I think has recognized the short comings. This year's freshman class includes more slashers than shooters. Players with more length. Players with more mobility and quickness. Second, next year's class includes one of the top players in the country and another player who I think is going to fit in quite nicely. Third, I think he getting better as a bench coach.
So I am willing to be patient. I expect improvement next year and the year after. Substantial improvement. More balanced scoring. Better defense. Finish near the top of the conference. Second weekend in the NCAAs.
If that doesn't happen next year, the seat should be warm. After the year after, he should be gone.
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So I am willing to be patient. I expect improvement next year and the year after. Substantial improvement. More balanced scoring. Better defense. Finish near the top of the conference. Second weekend in the NCAAs.
If that doesn't happen next year, the seat should be warm. After the year after, he should be gone.
crapshoot, a1na?
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I will say that I have not seen on a regular basis from Wojo the alchemy, the 'it', that makes a team more than the sum of the parts. He can recruit men of high character and skill.
I think you're spot on. You can really tell that certain teams just fit together well and feed off each other in a way that makes everyone better. Unfortunately, we haven't seen that for a few years. Maybe next year, when we're pretty good on paper, it will transfer over to the floor as well.
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Pakuni
Fair enough. I think they left a tad in the tank, but what the hell do I know?
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Got it. So even though they exceeded just about every objective preseason expectation (record, conference finish, Pomeroy, tournament status), they actually underperformed because some knuckleheads on Scoop thought Heldt should play over Luke.
Makes a lot of sense when you put it that way.
In terms of what was predicted of them by so called experts, yes they met expectations. In terms of what is expected of a third year coach at supposed high level program maybe not so mich.
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Why does everyone keep saying 6 seed? We tied for third in conference and got a 10-seed in the NCAA
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In terms of what was predicted of them by so called experts, yes they met expectations. In terms of what is expected of a third year coach at supposed high level program maybe not so mich.
Stats can sometimes be misleading. Finishing 32nd in Pomeroy is a great example of that. We were not the 32nd best team in college basketball last year. No, I don't have a statistical or objective way of "proving" this, but from watching the team and seeing the ups and downs on the floor, I just have a hard time believing in that ranking.
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crapshoot, a1na?
Highly dependent on if they hit their free throws or not the first weekend.
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I'm going to take a different slant on this. If, despite the new arena, ticket sales take a plunge next year owing to 1) frustration over many years of mediocre basketball, 2) an overly aggressive price bump, and 3) little to no belief that Joey is the 'savior' in much the same way that HE truly wasn't, then Wojo's seat will get hot in a jiffy. Now whether the administration would pull a quick trigger on a new 'hot seat' is a different story. I really can't see a scenario where in March 2019 they made that decision absent a scandal or complete collapse. But the year after that.......? And Wojo would certainly be under pressure in '19-'20 to win big now.
I'm not sure if it was this thread or another but the post that described the MU Administration's view with regard to 'return on investment' was spot on. He gets paid a lot of money. He's given considerable resources. He's expected to run a clean program that produces results.
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crapshoot, a1na?
Yeah, I don't want to make major program decisions based on NCAA tournament results.
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jsglow
I agree completely with your post. He is nowhere near a hot seat, and probably should not be, especially with the clean program and program making money. I think Wojo has a VERY long leash and everyone on Wisconsin Ave are comfortable with that. If no off court issues, Wojo is good for this year and two more after this year.
Regarding attendance next year, I think MU better be very careful on pricing and expectations. I do not think the joint will cause an MU attendance bounce. The Buck's will be sold out every night and I expect marginal, at best, improvement for MU. Lastly, if Buck's get really good, it will affect Mu attendance next year.
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Stats can sometimes be misleading. Finishing 32nd in Pomeroy is a great example of that. We were not the 32nd best team in college basketball last year. No, I don't have a statistical or objective way of "proving" this, but from watching the team and seeing the ups and downs on the floor, I just have a hard time believing in that ranking.
Well, the NCAA tournament committee placed MU 39th on their seeding S-curve.
Does that work for you?
Here's my point ... by every objective or unbiased measure I can come up with, Marquette exceeded their preseason expectations last year. So, to me at least, when someone comes here complaining about how they way underperformed, it doesn't jibe with reality.
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What is the alternative to Wojo? Another highly regarding assistance that may or may not return the program to glory? It's fair to say that Wojo hasn't proven he can put a day in-day out winner on the court, but he also hasn't proven he hasn't. Until he proves that he can't, the risk in changing is much higher than the risk in not changing.
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Cute.
But I agree with you 100% here. I have said it before that I am not sold on Wojo. I just think expecting growth from last year is unrealistic given what we lost. (Best offensive post player and two best slashers.) Is it Wojo's fault that those positions have not been adequately replaced? 100% yes. It is his fault that MU is completely one-dimensional on offense right now? Yep. Is it is his fault that the current players are poor defensively? No doubt.
Here is what I also think. First, I think has recognized the short comings. This year's freshman class includes more slashers than shooters. Players with more length. Players with more mobility and quickness. Second, next year's class includes one of the top players in the country and another player who I think is going to fit in quite nicely. Third, I think he getting better as a bench coach.
So I am willing to be patient. I expect improvement next year and the year after. Substantial improvement. More balanced scoring. Better defense. Finish near the top of the conference. Second weekend in the NCAAs.
If that doesn't happen next year, the seat should be warm. After the year after, he should be gone.
love the new screen name btw.
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I will say that I have not seen on a regular basis from Wojo the alchemy, the 'it', that makes a team more than the sum of the parts. He can recruit men of high character and skill.
I agree with this analysis.
But I'm also frustrated by the inconsistency in developing the skill he recruits. Sam and Markus I think have made great strides and are playing "above" their expectations. So far, everyone else, not so much.
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I'm going to take a different slant on this. If, despite the new arena, ticket sales take a plunge next year owing to 1) frustration over many years of mediocre basketball, 2) an overly aggressive price bump, and 3) little to no belief that Joey is the 'savior' in much the same way that HE truly wasn't, then Wojo's seat will get hot in a jiffy. Now whether the administration would pull a quick trigger on a new 'hot seat' is a different story. I really can't see a scenario where in March 2019 they made that decision absent a scandal or complete collapse. But the year after that.......? And Wojo would certainly be under pressure in '19-'20 to win big now.
I'm not sure if it was this thread or another but the post that described the MU Administration's view with regard to 'return on investment' was spot on. He gets paid a lot of money. He's given considerable resources. He's expected to run a clean program that produces results.
Lets get something straight, Joey will be a nice player, yes, savior, no way. Morrow is the key next year, Joey probably will come off the bench. The fans will flock
to the new arena just to see it, pricing will be higher but compared to the Bucks, a bargain. I can see MU averaging 15,000 next year. I would expect Wojo will have
a good recruiting year with the new arena being a big selling point. Only needs to recruit 2 or 3 players the next 2 years, has the resources to do that. The year they
lose Morrow, Hauser, Howard, Anim and Froling, now that will be a hard task. Recruiting is a 365 day job, good luck. I do not think they make the tournament this year, but the following 2 years they better for Wojo to keep his job.
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I think more people would be OK with a step back, if it was a step back from big time success. What are we stepping back from? A 6th place conference finish and a blowout tournament loss as a 10 seed? It's not like we are reloading after some sweet 16 runs.
Personally, I get sick of hearing the "wait until next year" stuff because it implies that Wojo hasn't had any talent yet, which I disagree with. I'm beginning to doubt Wojo some because I think some of his teams so far have underperformed. Last year's team must have had something like 7-8 former 4 star, top 100 recruits and that doesn't even include guys like Rowsey and Reinhardt who were proven, experienced veterans at the college level. How many teams around the country had that type of raw talent? That team should have been better than a one and done 10 seed, IMO.
The year before he had a lot of those same guys and a 5 star one and done lottery talent. Not even getting a NIT berth with that squad, that was underperforming. How much talent does he need before MU can compete for a Big East title and a Sweet 16 run? Sure next year's team looks good on paper but so did the Ellenson team, and so did last year's team.
I'm not a fire Wojo club member right now, but I'm starting to get concerned and have been pretty unimpressed to date. I wouldn't say his seat should be hot, but it shouldn't be cold either.
So 20 wins was underperforming?
I agree I was extremely disappointed by no bid, however, it has been established that that was squarely on the schedule (or the ref that called the foul for Depaul to win) Wojo does not independently make the schedule so is it not fair to blame the AD as much or more for that lack of a postseason?
I believe it’s easy to get caught up in focusing on the lack of postseason rather than the results of that year. If you give me a choice between 15-16 and about 4 of our NIT teams I would choose the 15-16 season.
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Cute.
But I agree with you 100% here. I have said it before that I am not sold on Wojo. I just think expecting growth from last year is unrealistic given what we lost. (Best offensive post player and two best slashers.) Is it Wojo's fault that those positions have not been adequately replaced? 100% yes. It is his fault that MU is completely one-dimensional on offense right now? Yep. Is it is his fault that the current players are poor defensively? No doubt.
Here is what I also think. First, I think has recognized the short comings. This year's freshman class includes more slashers than shooters. Players with more length. Players with more mobility and quickness. Second, next year's class includes one of the top players in the country and another player who I think is going to fit in quite nicely. Third, I think he getting better as a bench coach.
So I am willing to be patient. I expect improvement next year and the year after. Substantial improvement. More balanced scoring. Better defense. Finish near the top of the conference. Second weekend in the NCAAs.
If that doesn't happen next year, the seat should be warm. After the year after, he should be gone.
Wee recruitin’ some kid named Kook now, hey?
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DC Hoopster
If Hauser is coming off the bench it ain't going to be Joey. I would be careful on attendance bump, who is going to go that is not going now? The new arena is going to have more crap going on for everyone to see it. The Buck's owners will give everyone a fair chance to visit the arena, with concerts, wrestling, tractor puuls or any other way to make a buck. In addition, they are screwing MU big time and pricing will be an issue. I know more than handful of people that will not partaking in bailing out the crazy lease they agreed to.
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4ever
Kook won't play with Cam Marotta, we ain't chasing him.
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I'm going to take a different slant on this. If, despite the new arena, ticket sales take a plunge next year owing to 1) frustration over many years of mediocre basketball, 2) an overly aggressive price bump, and 3) little to no belief that Joey is the 'savior' in much the same way that HE truly wasn't, then Wojo's seat will get hot in a jiffy. Now whether the administration would pull a quick trigger on a new 'hot seat' is a different story. I really can't see a scenario where in March 2019 they made that decision absent a scandal or complete collapse. But the year after that.......? And Wojo would certainly be under pressure in '19-'20 to win big now.
I'm not sure if it was this thread or another but the post that described the MU Administration's view with regard to 'return on investment' was spot on. He gets paid a lot of money. He's given considerable resources. He's expected to run a clean program that produces results.
Thanks, glow, for putting my thoughts on this topic into words. Excellent summary of where I stand on Wojo, too.
I am bullish on Wojo, but like any other professional, he has to produce in his job. I think he's done "fine" so far. It's not unreasonable for any of us to want better than "fine" long-term. I strongly believe his team will deliver in 2018-19 and 2019-20.
If not, we are Marquette, and we can do better.
As an aside, except for a little pissing contest between a coupla posters, this thread has exceeded my expectations after having started it. I appreciate the discussion, everybody!
Go Marquette!
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DC Hoopster
If Hauser is coming off the bench it ain't going to be Joey. I would be careful on attendance bump, who is going to go that is not going now? The new arena is going to have more crap going on for everyone to see it. The Buck's owners will give everyone a fair chance to visit the arena, with concerts, wrestling, tractor puuls or any other way to make a buck. In addition, they are screwing MU big time and pricing will be an issue. I know more than handful of people that will not partaking in bailing out the crazy lease they agreed to.
Out of curiosity goose who do you expect the starters to be next year? Markus Sam and Morrow seem like locks to me. At 2, 3 and 4. So where do you see Joey starting?
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Solid, goose
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Wee recruitin’ some kid named Kook now, hey?
Name just Happened from a Bird, I expect.
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When Wojo was hired, if you would have told me year 4 would be a bubble year I would have said that's not good enough. But I can also reshape my expectations year by year as new information arises. Such as:
1) Henry's one and done year leaving a hole this long. Wojo miscalculated that Henry would have a negative affect on Levin transferring out and finding a replacement for Henry, like Kyle Washington or Xavier Tillman, was harder than expected. Luckily, Wojo back filled with transfers Froling and Morrow. But we're still a couple weeks away from Froling being eligible and Morrow is almost a year away. So the hole remains for now.
2) Cheatham didn't develop as hoped. Combine that with missing out on Amir Coffey and Wojo has another hole. Cain and Elliott have nice potential but they're not instant impact frosh, so we're left waiting for them to develop and for Sam to be able to move to SF next year when Morrow is eligible.
3) Howard reclassifying. You take that talent every time but it also set up a two year overlap of Rowsey and Howard, which lead to Carter transferring. Hard to play 3 sub-6 foot guards together. Now we have another whole. Wojo missed on Grimes and Elliott's development remains to be seen. Hopefully Wojo can find a guard to help shore up the backcourt.
The other thing is, I recognize the progress Wojo has made. I can be excited for the future. But I can also see the holes on this roster. I will add that I'm not thrilled with every strategic move Wojo's made, especially defensive scheme. But for now, I'll keep watching the process and see where it takes us.
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What is the alternative to Wojo? Another highly regarding assistance that may or may not return the program to glory? It's fair to say that Wojo hasn't proven he can put a day in-day out winner on the court, but he also hasn't proven he hasn't. Until he proves that he can't, the risk in changing is much higher than the risk in not changing.
This is simple and concise. Anyone who is satisfied with where the program is at has too low of expectations, but anyone that thinks things would magically improve by changing coaches is simply delusional. We have to give Wojo at least this year and 2 more at this point to see how things play out. If we aren't solidly a tournament team in 2019 and 2020 and feeling confident as we go into single elimination games in March, then it might be time for a change. Until then, we need to wait and see.
When Wojo was hired, if you would have told me year 4 would be a bubble year I would have said that's not good enough. But I can also reshape my expectations year by year as new information arises. Such as:
1) Henry's one and done year leaving a hole this long. Wojo miscalculated that Henry would have a negative affect on Levin transferring out and finding a replacement for Henry, like Kyle Washington or Xavier Tillman, was harder than expected. Luckily, Wojo back filled with transfers Froling and Morrow. But we're still a couple weeks away from Froling being eligible and Morrow is almost a year away. So the hole remains for now.
2) Cheatham didn't develop as hoped. Combine that with missing out on Amir Coffey and Wojo has another hole. Cain and Elliott have nice potential but they're not instant impact frosh, so we're left waiting for them to develop and for Sam to be able to move to SF next year when Morrow is eligible.
3) Howard reclassifying. You take that talent every time but it also set up a two year overlap of Rowsey and Howard, which lead to Carter transferring. Hard to play 3 sub-6 foot guards together. Now we have another whole. Wojo missed on Grimes and Elliott's development remains to be seen. Hopefully Wojo can find a guard to help shore up the backcourt.
The other thing is, I recognize the progress Wojo has made. I can be excited for the future. But I can also see the holes on this roster. I will add that I'm not thrilled with every strategic move Wojo's made, especially defensive scheme. But for now, I'll keep watching the process and see where it takes us.
I think all of this is pretty fair. I don't think anyone associated with Marquette would've said no to Henry Ellenson, but the ripple effect of his decision was massive. Hopefully Froling and Morrow finally stem that setback, but I still applaud Wojo for swinging for the fences on that one. Development in general, not just Cheatham, is my biggest concern. Love some of these young pieces, but will they be demonstrably better in 1-2 years? And will roster realization lead to better execution of the defense?
As above, it's kind of wait and see right now. At this point, I'm committed to the Wojo plan until at least March 2020 because I think we have to be. Where we go from there is anyone's guess.
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Grimm
A+ post
Seconded
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DC Hoopster
If Hauser is coming off the bench it ain't going to be Joey.
If that is the case, we're going to be playing a pretty large starting line up - Froling, Morrow, Joey, Sam and Markus. If we get a grad transfer PG, either Morrow plays the 5 (which isn't) and Froling to the bench, or the more natural choice would be Joey to the bench.
Love the length of the next years squad though. A 6-8 Sam at the 2 is super neat.
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Lets get something straight, Joey will be a nice player, yes, savior, no way. Morrow is the key next year, Joey probably will come off the bench. The fans will flock
to the new arena just to see it, pricing will be higher but compared to the Bucks, a bargain. I can see MU averaging 15,000 next year. I would expect Wojo will have
a good recruiting year with the new arena being a big selling point. Only needs to recruit 2 or 3 players the next 2 years, has the resources to do that. The year they
lose Morrow, Hauser, Howard, Anim and Froling, now that will be a hard task. Recruiting is a 365 day job, good luck. I do not think they make the tournament this year, but the following 2 years they better for Wojo to keep his job.
Totally agree.
Next year attendance is mostly dependent on this year's success and, more importantly, the ticket prices. I fear MU is going to overshoot and have a lot of egg on their face necessitating BIG in-season promotions.
Agree.
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jsglow
There will not be enough success to equal the price increase on tickets next year. There are going to be a lot of angry folks when they get the bill next year.
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What is the alternative to Wojo? Another highly regarding assistance that may or may not return the program to glory? It's fair to say that Wojo hasn't proven he can put a day in-day out winner on the court, but he also hasn't proven he hasn't. Until he proves that he can't, the risk in changing is much higher than the risk in not changing.
No argument from me. Oh, and listening to the pod was downright depressing.
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If that is the case, we're going to be playing a pretty large starting line up - Froling, Morrow, Joey, Sam and Markus. If we get a grad transfer PG, either Morrow plays the 5 (which isn't) and Froling to the bench, or the more natural choice would be Joey to the bench.
Love the length of the next years squad though. A 6-8 Sam at the 2 is super neat.
If we get a grad transfer PG I will have to adjust, but barring injury or other issue I think the starting 5(line-up/grouping of players with most minutes) will be Markus at the 1/2, Elliot at the 1/2, Sam at the 3, Morrow at the 4, and Froling at the 5. Next most minutes "off the bench" will be Joey and Cain, after that Theo and Sacar and Sir "Not really appearing in this film" will be Matt and Ike. I think we play a lot of "centerless" basketball next season.
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jsglow
There will not be enough success to equal the price increase on tickets next year. There are going to be a lot of angry folks when they get the bill next year.
You have confirmation on the price increase? It's already been decided? Please share!
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No argument from me. Oh, and listening to the pod was downright depressing.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Fp7kPiWkFkUtG/giphy.gif)
Any better?
And I did forecast they go 2-0 this week and Gard has never beaten Wojo in the Kohl Hole...what's not to like :)
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Diener
Not sure if they have priced things out or not, but with less than favorable lease, likely not going to be couple buck a ticket increase. That said, I still think MU games our a reasonable ticket price currently, especially if only buying tickets for games you want to attend.
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If we get a grad transfer PG I will have to adjust, but barring injury or other issue I think the starting 5(line-up/grouping of players with most minutes) will be Markus at the 1/2, Elliot at the 1/2, Sam at the 3, Morrow at the 4, and Froling at the 5. Next most minutes "off the bench" will be Joey and Cain, after that Theo and Sacar and Sir "Not really appearing in this film" will be Matt and Ike. I think we play a lot of "centerless" basketball next season.
Bailey red shirting or what?
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When Wojo was hired, if you would have told me year 4 would be a bubble year I would have said that's not good enough. But I can also reshape my expectations year by year as new information arises. Such as:
1) Henry's one and done year leaving a hole this long. Wojo miscalculated that Henry would have a negative affect on Levin transferring out and finding a replacement for Henry, like Kyle Washington or Xavier Tillman, was harder than expected. Luckily, Wojo back filled with transfers Froling and Morrow. But we're still a couple weeks away from Froling being eligible and Morrow is almost a year away. So the hole remains for now.
2) Cheatham didn't develop as hoped. Combine that with missing out on Amir Coffey and Wojo has another hole. Cain and Elliott have nice potential but they're not instant impact frosh, so we're left waiting for them to develop and for Sam to be able to move to SF next year when Morrow is eligible.
3) Howard reclassifying. You take that talent every time but it also set up a two year overlap of Rowsey and Howard, which lead to Carter transferring. Hard to play 3 sub-6 foot guards together. Now we have another whole. Wojo missed on Grimes and Elliott's development remains to be seen. Hopefully Wojo can find a guard to help shore up the backcourt.
The other thing is, I recognize the progress Wojo has made. I can be excited for the future. But I can also see the holes on this roster. I will add that I'm not thrilled with every strategic move Wojo's made, especially defensive scheme. But for now, I'll keep watching the process and see where it takes us.
All of this is reasonable. Although I'm quite sure we probably would not have made the tournament last season if Markus had still been in high school.
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If we get a grad transfer PG I will have to adjust, but barring injury or other issue I think the starting 5(line-up/grouping of players with most minutes) will be Markus at the 1/2, Elliot at the 1/2, Sam at the 3, Morrow at the 4, and Froling at the 5. Next most minutes "off the bench" will be Joey and Cain, after that Theo and Sacar and Sir "Not really appearing in this film" will be Matt and Ike. I think we play a lot of "centerless" basketball next season.
Completely agree.
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Bailey red shirting or what?
I'm not convinced he comes to MU. but even still, with Sam pushed down to the 3 with Sacar, Cain, and Elliot at times....not sure where Bailey fits in unless there is an injury. If Bailey can beat out those guys I will 100% eat crow as being wrong.
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Look, I'm not in the "fire wojo" group...yet. But that doesn't mean I don't have concerns on where this program is at currently. And even if next year and the year after are outstanding(and I really hope they are), does that necessarily make up for what "some" think has been a bit of underachievement to this point?? I don't necessarily think it does.
Sure, you will have the people that crow "see, told ya it takes 5 years to really see the effects", but that's just boasting to boast with no evidence to back it up, since Coaches HAVE rebuilt faster.
My biggest issues with Wojo right now are what seem to be his lack of creativity with game plans, and not seeming to make proper adjustments in game. As a Coach, you HAVE to have flexibility, and you have to have option(s), if what you originally intend to do doesn't/isn't working. Yes, there may be a learning curve changing some things up from time to time, and there may well be struggles. But you have to know your team, their strengths, their weaknesses etc. And you cannot just keep doing "what you do" when it's repeatedly not working.
Like the Heldt hedge on ball screens..he is simply not quick enough to recover..Wojo and the staff have to see that, yet, they keep doing it. Why not do something different??
Also, he doesn't seem to have a good feel for "subbing". What I mean by this is..there are plenty of opportunities, late in games where if it's close and you need a stop..you can do offense-defense substitutions fairly easily. He never seems to do that.
For example, let's say MU is down 1 with a minute to go..you need a stop on the defensive side..why don't you sub in Elliott(the better defender) for Howard or Rowsey, and then switch that back when you get the stop and put the other back in for the offense?? Take a time out if you have to. You see it done all the time, Wojo doesn't seem to do this nearly enough. Those are things that can win/lose basketball games.
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If we get a grad transfer PG I will have to adjust, but barring injury or other issue I think the starting 5(line-up/grouping of players with most minutes) will be Markus at the 1/2, Elliot at the 1/2, Sam at the 3, Morrow at the 4, and Froling at the 5. Next most minutes "off the bench" will be Joey and Cain, after that Theo and Sacar and Sir "Not really appearing in this film" will be Matt and Ike. I think we play a lot of "centerless" basketball next season.
You don't have enough guard time in there eng. Sacar can't be 9th man if he's our 3rd guard. Those are 4th guard minutes. So that's correct if we get a Point.
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Also, he doesn't seem to have a good feel for "subbing". What I mean by this is..there are plenty of opportunities, late in games where if it's close and you need a stop..you can do offense-defense substitutions fairly easily. He never seems to do that.
For example, let's say MU is down 1 with a minute to go..you need a stop on the defensive side..why don't you sub in Elliott(the better defender) for Howard or Rowsey, and then switch that back when you get the stop and put the other back in for the offense?? Take a time out if you have to. You see it done all the time, Wojo doesn't seem to do this nearly enough. Those are things that can win/lose basketball games.
You mean like he did in the last minute of the Georgia game?
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You don't have enough guard time in there eng. Sacar can't be 9th man if he's our 3rd guard. Those are 4th guard minutes. So that's correct if we get a Point.
Howard's gonna average 36 minutes a game next year, Elliot likely 26 (if his trend line continues). That only leaves 18 minutes at the 2 on average....ala Sacar.
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I'm not convinced he comes to MU. but even still, with Sam pushed down to the 3 with Sacar, Cain, and Elliot at times....not sure where Bailey fits in unless there is an injury. If Bailey can beat out those guys I will 100% eat crow as being wrong.
Interesting. This is even with Big Daddy reaffirming Bailey’s commitment a few weeks ago?
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Howard's gonna average 36 minutes a game next year, Elliot likely 26 (if his trend line continues). That only leaves 18 minutes at the 2 on average....ala Sacar.
I agree on your distribution of minutes.
Let's hope for our sanity that M2N doesn't get 2 fouls in 45 seconds tonight. I might walk out. :'(
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Interesting. This is even with Big Daddy reaffirming Bailey’s commitment a few weeks ago?
I will always defer to Big Daddy's knowledge so this was gut feel (didn't see what Big Daddy posted). If he does come, I'm not sure he's going to be able to contribute much in year one after not playing a lot of competitive basketball in two years.
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My view on Bailey is that he'll be rusty from the 2 year mission. As a frosh I just want him to regain his rhythm. Then see how he develops from there.
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I agree on your distribution of minutes.
Let's hope for our sanity that M2N doesn't get 2 fouls in 45 seconds tonight. I might walk out. :'(
We'll see how Greg's thumb heals up, and if it brings with it a more refined handle....likely going to need him to play some 1 next season.
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I'm not convinced he comes to MU. but even still, with Sam pushed down to the 3 with Sacar, Cain, and Elliot at times....not sure where Bailey fits in unless there is an injury. If Bailey can beat out those guys I will 100% eat crow as being wrong.
Why? Nothing has indicated as such. And hasn't he signed?
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You don't have enough guard time in there eng. Sacar can't be 9th man if he's our 3rd guard. Those are 4th guard minutes. So that's correct if we get a Point.
Sam and Cain are just as much guards as they are forwards.
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I agree on your distribution of minutes.
Let's hope for our sanity that M2N doesn't get 2 fouls in 45 seconds tonight. I might walk out. :'(
No more Walking TO's.
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Why? Nothing has indicated as such. And hasn't he signed?
He is signed.
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What is the alternative to Wojo? Another highly regarding assistance that may or may not return the program to glory? It's fair to say that Wojo hasn't proven he can put a day in-day out winner on the court, but he also hasn't proven he hasn't. Until he proves that he can't, the risk in changing is much higher than the risk in not changing.
First, with his standing and who is here or signed, Wojo is safe.
Second, not having apparent alternatives is not an excuse to keep a coach who is not performing.
Third, there are viable alternatives, especially with the Marquette job and what we spend.
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As I have stated previously, I am in the keep Wojo at least one more year and hopefully more camp. That said I don't agree with a couple of "pro-Wojo' arguments made in this thread.
1. 'Wojo is safe regardless of wins and losses.' This makes no sense unless you assume the AD and the administration do not care about success on the court and the collateral benefit to the university as a whole. From what I heard the university cares deeply about the wins and losses and feels they have made, and are making, a significant investment to produce success. I don't think MU views having a clean, respectable program and a winning program as mutually exclusive.
2. 'Firing Wojo will set the program back 3, 5 or 10 years'. While I understand some of the reasoning behind this (yes, there would be short term set backs), it flies in the face of the basic economic principle of 'sunk cost' (and not in the financial sense). Also, it appears to me that anyone sharing this opinion has a fairly dim view of Marquette and MU basketball. My sense is that
those people feel like MU got lucky getting Wojo to come to a mediocre university with a below average basketball program with below average resources; therefore, "what coach with any sort of ability to win at MU would take the job", thus we are destined to years of performance below what Wojo has delivered.
IMHO, MU is a great university with a great basketball program and great tradition. The university provides some of the top resources in the nation, competes in a top 5 conference and will start playing in maybe the best basketball arena in the country next year in front of top 20 attendance in college basketball. If MU decided to move on from Wojo, it will be just fine. I am not advocating firing Wojo nor do I think this is being discussed by MU at this time but I am confident the university, should the day come, will make a decision in its best interest and not be paralyzed by fear.
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Third, there are viable alternatives, especially with the Marquette job and what we spend.
Based on the candidates who were viable that I know about when we landed Wojo, I guess it depends on your definition of viable. Well regarded assistant, absolutely. Established, proven HC...that's where I'm not so sure unless you are going into tier 2 (SWAC, MAEC, etc) conference (like Waddle or Harris being hired if they prove they're good.)
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The notion that Markus can/will/should play 35 minutes per game at the point will make it difficult for Wojo to land a quality point guard. A similar thing happened to Crean because of Yogi Ferrell. Tough to find a top notch player willing to come and sit for two years.
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Based on the candidates who were viable that I know about when we landed Wojo, I guess it depends on your definition of viable. Well regarded assistant, absolutely. Established, proven HC...that's where I'm not so sure unless you are going into tier 2 (SWAC, MAEC, etc) conference (like Waddle or Harris being hired if they prove they're good.)
Or a fired coach on the rebound.
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We vastly overrate our program based on the amount of money spent. The amount of money MU pours into basketball is the price to overcome its inherent disadvantages vs its competition, and is sufficient to bring it back on to even footing in many respects. But it doesn't put it on a higher plane, or make it a uniquely desirable job.
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I think more people would be OK with a step back, if it was a step back from big time success. What are we stepping back from? A 6th place conference finish and a blowout tournament loss as a 10 seed? It's not like we are reloading after some sweet 16 runs.
Personally, I get sick of hearing the "wait until next year" stuff because it implies that Wojo hasn't had any talent yet, which I disagree with. I'm beginning to doubt Wojo some because I think some of his teams so far have underperformed. Last year's team must have had something like 7-8 former 4 star, top 100 recruits and that doesn't even include guys like Rowsey and Reinhardt who were proven, experienced veterans at the college level. How many teams around the country had that type of raw talent? That team should have been better than a one and done 10 seed, IMO.
The year before he had a lot of those same guys and a 5 star one and done lottery talent. Not even getting a NIT berth with that squad, that was underperforming. How much talent does he need before MU can compete for a Big East title and a Sweet 16 run? Sure next year's team looks good on paper but so did the Ellenson team, and so did last year's team.
I'm not a fire Wojo club member right now, but I'm starting to get concerned and have been pretty unimpressed to date. I wouldn't say his seat should be hot, but it shouldn't be cold either.
So, you realize high school rankings don't always translate to college success, right?
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Bailey red shirting or what?
And, if Joey isn’t pencilled in as a starter, ya might as well have recruited Herro, then. What the fook, ai na?
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We vastly overrate our program based on the amount of money spent. The amount of money MU pours into basketball is the price to overcome its inherent disadvantages vs its competition, and is sufficient to bring it back on to even footing in many respects. But it doesn't put it on a higher plane, or make it a uniquely desirable job.
Yep.
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Based on the candidates who were viable that I know about when we landed Wojo, I guess it depends on your definition of viable. Well regarded assistant, absolutely. Established, proven HC...that's where I'm not so sure unless you are going into tier 2 (SWAC, MAEC, etc) conference (like Waddle or Harris being hired if they prove they're good.)
Like Shaka?
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So, you realize high school rankings don't always translate to college success, right?
Stealing Brew's name that player format:
RSCI top 100 rankings for Sam Hauser, Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson, and Sandy Cohen
Player 1. #75
Player 2. #81
Player 3. #82
Player 4. #94
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Stealing Brew's name that player format:
RSCI top 100 rankings for Sam Hauser, Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson, and Sandy Cohen
Player 1. #75
Player 2. #81
Player 3. #82
Player 4. #94
Can add on
Jamail Jones #74
Erik Williams #67
If this doesn’t prove rankings are always accurate i don’t know what does ::)
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Or a fired coach on the rebound.
Correct
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We vastly overrate our program based on the amount of money spent. The amount of money MU pours into basketball is the price to overcome its inherent disadvantages vs its competition, and is sufficient to bring it back on to even footing in many respects. But it doesn't put it on a higher plane, or make it a uniquely desirable job.
#parochialism
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Or a fired coach on the rebound.
That would send 4never back into a grain based diet...
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Or a fired coach on the rebound.
Crean baby! Taking a page out of the DePaul book of coaching hires.
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My "or else" is simple - I'll continue to become less interested. I was a fanatic in the Al years, first as a student, then as a young alum. Never missed a home game, traveled often to see the Warriors. Still rooted for the team in the dark days of Dukiet but only made the Chicago to Milwaukee trip e few times a year. KO got me back on the bandwagon and Buzz got me to make the Chicago to Milwaukee trip 18 times a year again. Now I watch on TV. Still really want our guys to win but I can't get as excited over mediocrity as I do over excellence. OTOH, I'm not emailing the president or the AD about it. If they think Wojo is "the one" I'll wait a couple more seasons hoping they're right.
Know exactly how you feel. It is very disappointing to see how far the program has fallen. Wojo screams until he is hoarse but some just do not listen. I can accept the lack of talent of some of our players but the deliberate disregard of the coach is unacceptable. It is very hard to watch the same old flaws over and over again.
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Crean sucks
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We vastly overrate our program based on the amount of money spent. The amount of money MU pours into basketball is the price to overcome its inherent disadvantages vs its competition, and is sufficient to bring it back on to even footing in many respects. But it doesn't put it on a higher plane, or make it a uniquely desirable job.
What disadvantages would you say Marquette has as a basketball program or university that force us to outspend our most similar competition? I don't see MU as disadvantaged compared to any of the schools in the conference except for maybe Nova. We certainly shouldn't have to outspend Xavier, Butler, Creighton, or DePaul to be seen as equal.
Are we going to compete with Kentucky or Kansas for coaches? Of course not. But I don't see any reason why we couldn't land a top guy if/when we ever have to replace Wojo. If Wichita State, Butler and VCU can have top-tier coaching talent, I think we can too.
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Sure, you will have the people that crow "see, told ya it takes 5 years to really see the effects", but that's just boasting to boast with no evidence to back it up, since Coaches HAVE rebuilt faster.
A few questions...
1) Can you cite for me some examples of coaches that have rebuilt faster and sustained that success at a similar program?
2) Who do you think would've done better had they been hired in the Spring of 2014?
3) Where were your expectations set for year 4 of the Wojo era?
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Well, the NCAA tournament committee placed MU 39th on their seeding S-curve.
Does that work for you?
Here's my point ... by every objective or unbiased measure I can come up with, Marquette exceeded their preseason expectations last year. So, to me at least, when someone comes here complaining about how they way underperformed, it doesn't jibe with reality.
Preseason expectations did not project that Creighton and Xavier would lose their point guards to injury. I still believe, if those injuries did not happen we would not of swept those teams. Go two and two in those games, we may of even missed out on NIT again. Give Wojo credit for taking advantage of the breaks he got last year. However, making the NCAA last year unfairly raised expectations for this year.
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Preseason expectations did not project that Creighton and Xavier would lose their point guards to injury. I still believe, if those injuries did not happen we would not of swept those teams. Go two and two in those games, we may of even missed out on NIT again. Give Wojo credit for taking advantage of the breaks he got last year. However, making the NCAA last year unfairly raised expectations for this year.
Umm X still managed an elite 8 bid without their PG I think that was still a pretty big win
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Umm X still managed an elite 8 bid without their PG I think that was still a pretty big win
We beat them twice during their big losing streak. They got going again, when they beat DePaul in Big East tournament. Had they lost to DePaul they would not of got a bid.
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What I find ironic is Wojo, who was a point guard, has trouble recruiting point guards.
The new arena will not see an increase in attendance. Someone who wants to see the new arena needs to go to only one game to do that and there are a lot more buck's games than MU games to choose from.
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4ever
Joey is starting, regardless of folks on here think.
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4ever
Joey is starting, regardless of folks on here think.
I guess I'm guilty of setting the bar a little lower so that I'm pleasantly surprised if Joey starts and plays 28+ mpg. Some of the people expecting Joey to start could end up mildly disappointed if he has a lesser role. As it is, I expect about 22 mpg as a 6th man (starting no matta). Hopefully his ankle heals up for next year!
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What I find ironic is Wojo, who was a point guard, has trouble recruiting point guards.
Wojo's first recruiting class included 4-star PG Traci Carter.
Wojo's second recruiting class included 4-star PG Markus Howard.
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Bump ;D
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I think this thread can be summed up pretty much like this:
There are two groups of fans, one who sets season expectations based on where the program should be and one that sets season expectations based on where the program currently is. Both want the program to be in the same place. Neither is wrong. Neither is a bad group fans. Just different ways of viewing the same thing.
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Bump ;D
Speaking of "bump", Steve Bardo is changing his announcer handle to Markus'sSoreTailbone.
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Bump ;D
I'm sure this is mostly just tongue in cheek, but let's not oversell a win over a small mid-major at home. This was a great performance with a lot of positives, but we should be expected to win this kind of game at home. Not trying to be a downer here or nit pick the game, but tonight isn't the kind of W that makes a difference for a coach's standing. This one isn't going on a t-shirt any time soon.... right?
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I'm sure this is mostly just tongue in cheek, but let's not oversell a win over a small mid-major at home. This was a great performance with a lot of positives, but we should be expected to win this kind of game at home. Not trying to be a downer here or nit pick the game, but tonight isn't the kind of W that makes a difference for a coach's standing. This one isn't going on a t-shirt any time soon.... right?
So you're saying this win catAMOUNTS TO NOTHING!! TShirt Presses Rolling!!
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I'm sure this is mostly just tongue in cheek, but let's not oversell a win over a small mid-major at home. This was a great performance with a lot of positives, but we should be expected to win this kind of game at home. Not trying to be a downer here or nit pick the game, but tonight isn't the kind of W that makes a difference for a coach's standing. This one isn't going on a t-shirt any time soon.... right?
You're right, Debbie Downer. But it wouldn't kill you to acknowledge that our coach did his job well tonight.
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You're right, Debbie Downer. But it wouldn't kill you to acknowledge that our coach did his job well tonight.
He did. Game plan was good, defensive focus was good, the attitude and feel of the team tonight was as good as we've seen this year. This is a good win against a tournament-caliber team, and Wojo gets credit for that. I hope we get to see more of this at home for the rest of the year. This was a great performance.
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He did. Game plan was good, defensive focus was good, the attitude and feel of the team tonight was as good as we've seen this year. This is a good win against a tournament-caliber team, and Wojo gets credit for that. I hope we get to see more of this at home for the rest of the year. This was a great performance.
Im on board with this..great job tonight. That being said..where was this against Georgia? I hope this kind of coaching/performance becomes a trend for the rest of the year..especially at home.
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What I find ironic is Wojo, who was a point guard, has trouble recruiting point guards.
The new arena will not see an increase in attendance. Someone who wants to see the new arena needs to go to only one game to do that and there are a lot more buck's games than MU games to choose from.
I SAID IT BEFORE...MU SHOULD GO BACK TO THE PANTHER ARENA AND MOVE UWM OUT OF THERE... The ole' Arena would be an absolute PIT, it would rival Cameron Indoor Stadium II....
It will never happen, but man I wish it would. Man would that be absolutely great! A college team who could fill out that arena every night and those who can't make it there...just show the game on a big screen at 'the AL' if possible for fans to watch as well...
Send Panthers back to Klotschke...no offense but they do not draw well enough to be there.
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I SAID IT BEFORE...MU SHOULD GO BACK TO THE PANTHER ARENA AND MOVE UWM OUT OF THERE... The ole' Arena would be an absolute PIT, it would rival Cameron Indoor Stadium II....
It will never happen, but man I wish it would. Man would that be absolutely great! A college team who could fill out that arena every night and those who can't make it there...just show the game on a big screen at 'the AL' if possible for fans to watch as well...
Send Panthers back to Klotschke...no offense but they do not draw well enough to be there.
Terrible idea for revenue, wasted opportunity to have much better facilities in the new arena and a big screen at the Al? Yeah who wouldn’t want to sit in uncomfortable stadium chairs for a regular season game at a place that doesn’t serve alcohol.
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I actually like the idea of a more intimate arena, maybe even one owned by the university itself. It would be packed every night, and when we get great again there would be a waiting list for season tickets. But we'd want it to have all the whistles and bells, like any modern arena. And a couple times a year, you could move big games to Bradley Center.
Maybe this was even considered before MU built the Al? I don't know the history of that decision. Obviously, a bigger, MECCA-sized on-campus arena is never gonna happen.
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I'm sure this is mostly just tongue in cheek, but let's not oversell a win over a small mid-major at home. This was a great performance with a lot of positives, but we should be expected to win this kind of game at home. Not trying to be a downer here or nit pick the game, but tonight isn't the kind of W that makes a difference for a coach's standing. This one isn't going on a t-shirt any time soon.... right?
Like ND should beat Ball State at home, hey?
ND Sucks!
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I actually like the idea of a more intimate arena, maybe even one owned by the university itself. It would be packed every night, and when we get great again there would be a waiting list for season tickets. But we'd want it to have all the whistles and bells, like any modern arena. And a couple times a year, you could move big games to Bradley Center.
Maybe this was even considered before MU built the Al? I don't know the history of that decision. Obviously, a bigger, MECCA-sized on-campus arena is never gonna happen.
I think the biggest problem is if you have 5 games at the Silk Exotic Entertainment Center, that leaves maybe 14 games at the Tom Crean "Grass Isn't Greener" Arena. What do we do with it the other 351 days of the year?
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So did Wojos seat heat up during the first half last night and then cool back down late in the second half??
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I think the biggest problem is if you have 5 games at the Silk Exotic Entertainment Center, that leaves maybe 14 games at the Tom Crean "Grass Isn't Greener" Arena. What do we do with it the other 351 days of the year?
Marquette would need to work it so that the Mecca and Bradley center close when the new stadium is built. The Marquette stadium would take on the Admirals, the UWM Panthers, and all the other events that flow through the Mecca currently. You could also make the Al a true practice facility and move the women's bball team and the volleyball team to Wild Arena.
A lot of pieces would need to fall into place and it is probably never going to happen for various reasons, but I don't think it's the impossiblity that many think it to be.
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Marquette would need to work it so that the Mecca and Bradley center close when the new stadium is built. The Marquette stadium would take on the Admirals, the UWM Panthers, and all the other events that flow through the Mecca currently. You could also make the Al a true practice facility and move the women's bball team and the volleyball team to Wild Arena.
A lot of pieces would need to fall into place and it is probably never going to happen for various reasons, but I don't think it's the impossiblity that many think it to be.
UWM has enough pride that it would never play in an arena called the Marquette Arena
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Marquette would need to work it so that the Mecca and Bradley center close when the new stadium is built. The Marquette stadium would take on the Admirals, the UWM Panthers, and all the other events that flow through the Mecca currently. You could also make the Al a true practice facility and move the women's bball team and the volleyball team to Wild Arena.
A lot of pieces would need to fall into place and it is probably never going to happen for various reasons, but I don't think it's the impossiblity that many think it to be.
You progressives sure enjoy spending other people's money.
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You progressives sure enjoy spending other people's money.
Long term it would pay for itself!
Isn't that what you conservatives say when you want to spend other people's money?
;D
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Wojo’s seat is as cold as Milwaukee in December.
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UWM has enough pride that it would never play in an arena called the Marquette Arena
I know....but do they?
And it wouldn't be called Marquette Arena some company will get naming rights. I'm assuming Silk will make a big push after Foxconn outbids them for the new Bucks arena
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Sand Knit
Wojo's seat is the same temp as it was three months ago. Nice win by the fella's last night. The young guys looked good and I think Cain and Elliott can develop into nice players.
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Long term it would pay for itself!
Very funny! Let's see the numbers.
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Very funny! Let's see the numbers.
Numbers no matta
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Sand Knit
Wojo's seat is the same temp as it was three months ago. Nice win by the fella's last night. The young guys looked good and I think Cain and Elliott can develop into nice players.
Sarcasm bro,
Wijo hasnt come in like a house a fire. But im ok with his slow and steady approach. Sophomore, freshman n hs seniir class signees bode very well for MU!!
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Bro?
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Bro?
He ain't your bro, buddy.
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He ain't your bro, buddy.
He ain’t your buddy, pal
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He ain’t your buddy, pal
Definitely not your Friend, buddy!
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Definitely not your Friend, buddy!
He certainly ain't your Friend, Cuz!
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He ain't your Cuz, amigo!
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I'd rather be in Wojo's seat than Gard's. Working for an AD with a huge ego that was backed into hiring you in the ugly departure of your predecessor. That will be an interesting one to watch if he doesn't turn the ship around.
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He ain't your Cuz, amigo!
He ain't your amigo, chum!
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He ain't your amigo, chum!
He ain't your chum, bub!
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He ain't your chum, bub!
Who you calling bub, missy?
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Who you calling bub, missy?
That lady ain't no missy, dude!
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Wojo's first recruiting class included 4-star PG Traci Carter.
Wojo's second recruiting class included 4-star PG Markus Howard.
Howard is a shooting guard. He be a one star point guard, if he shot the ball like Derrick Wilson.
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I'd rather be in Wojo's seat than Gard's. Working for an AD with a huge ego that was backed into hiring you in the ugly departure of your predecessor. That will be an interesting one to watch if he doesn't turn the ship around.
I agree with you on this. Gard deserved the Wisconsin job, but he was also forced on them by Bo. Gard is gone, if he misses the tournament two straight years.
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Howard is a shooting guard. He be a one star point guard, if he shot the ball like Derrick Wilson.
And he'd be a 5-star center if he were a 7-footer who 50 percent from three.
Your point?
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Howard is a shooting guard. He be a one star point guard, if he shot the ball like Derrick Wilson.
Howard is a combo guard who likely will be running point next year.
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Who you calling bub, missy?
Who you calling missy, fella?
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He ain't your Cuz, amigo!
He ain't your amigo, chief!
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He ain't your amigo, chief!
He ain’t your chief, mate!
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Howard is a shooting guard. He be a one star point guard, if he shot the ball like Derrick Wilson.
And he'd be a 5-star center if he were a 7-footer who 50 percent from three.
Your point?
Exactly.
No offense, bilsu, but statements like yours are silly - which maybe is what you were trying to be.
What matters is that Markus doesn't shoot like Derrick ... thank goodness!
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I agree with you on this. Gard deserved the Wisconsin job, but he was also forced on them by Bo. Gard is gone, if he misses the tournament two straight years.
If this is the case, and if this is really how results-driven the UW admins and AD are, is that too aggressive, or is that an attitude worth emulating? I would imagine that many Scoopers would think that a 2 year window is way too aggressive, but at the same time, I wonder if UW would be willing to give him the 5-6 years that so many on the boards here feel is needed for a new head coach.
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If this is the case, and if this is really how results-driven the UW admins and AD are, is that too aggressive, or is that an attitude worth emulating? I would imagine that many Scoopers would think that a 2 year window is way too aggressive, but at the same time, I wonder if UW would be willing to give him the 5-6 years that so many on the boards here feel is needed for a new head coach.
I highly doubt Wisconsin snags a good coach if they get rid of Gard. They aren’t a basketball school, they’re in a small unattractive city, they play an unattractive brand of basketball and have a known dbag as an AD.
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I hope you are right, but Madison is an attractive college town and they have a great campus. A new coach would determine what kind of style they play and they play in a major power conference. Barry won't be there forever and there are enough people that respect him. They would get a good high level coach.
I agree the new coach would be able implement his own system but Wisconsin doesn’t exactly have a bunch of high major recruits that are adaptable to run and gun. It’d be a really really rough first year or two.
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I agree the new coach would be able implement his own system but Wisconsin doesn’t exactly have a bunch of high major recruits that are adaptable to run and gun. It’d be a really really rough first year or two.
That's true, they would have to find a coach that can adapt to the players he has available to recruit or recruit other markets.
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I hope you are right, but Madison is an attractive college town and they have a great campus. A new coach would determine what kind of style they play and they play in a major power conference. Barry won't be there forever and there are enough people that respect him. They would get a good high level coach.
I would agree with this. I hope basketball coaches wouldn't view them as a desirable option, but I think UW could probably make the sale to a lot of people. Madison has its perks, the university as a good reputation, and the basketball program has been better than average in a good conference. If I was part of the program, I'd expect to land a quality candidate.
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If this is the case, and if this is really how results-driven the UW admins and AD are, is that too aggressive, or is that an attitude worth emulating? I would imagine that many Scoopers would think that a 2 year window is way too aggressive, but at the same time, I wonder if UW would be willing to give him the 5-6 years that so many on the boards here feel is needed for a new head coach.
Two different situations. Wojo was an outsider who was given a dumpster fire and has made slow progress every season. We can also look ahead and see that the next two seasons will be great on paper at least.
Gard was an insider who was given a team that was expected to be a top competitor for at least the next two years. Badger fans are looking ahead and they see a 2018 recruiting class with 2 low three star recruits (one of whom is a walk on) and their highest rated recruit since Dekker decomitting. The future is a little more cloudy. And fair or not, the manner in which Gard got the job changes the expectations a little bit.
All that being said, I think it is premature for Gard's seat to get warm. A step back should have been expected this season with four starters graduating. They have a lot of losses but they are all to quality teams. The only "unacceptable" loss was the 25 point beatdown at home by Ohio State. Even if they miss the postseason this year, they have zero seniors and should be in a for a bounceback year. Now if that doesn't go as well.....then I think Gard's derriere starts to get a little sweaty.
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Two different situations. Wojo was an outsider who was given a dumpster fire and has made slow progress every season. We can also look ahead and see that the next two seasons will be great on paper at least.
Gard was an insider who was given a team that was expected to be a top competitor for at least the next two years. Badger fans are looking ahead and they see a 2018 recruiting class with 2 low three star recruits (one of whom is a walk on) and their highest rated recruit since Dekker decomitting. The future is a little more cloudy. And fair or not, the manner in which Gard got the job changes the expectations a little bit.
All that being said, I think it is premature for Gard's seat to get warm. A step back should have been expected this season with four starters graduating. They have a lot of losses but they are all to quality teams. The only "unacceptable" loss was the 25 point beatdown at home by Ohio State. Even if they miss the postseason this year, they have zero seniors and should be in a for a bounceback year. Now if that doesn't go as well.....then I think Gard's derriere starts to get a little sweaty.
The Wisky team next year may or may not have Happ, 5th year senior. I really do not see him coming back. If he does not, they have nothing to hang there hat on.
Bo really left a good team to Gard last year, but now he has a junior class that it very weak. He maybe in a lot of trouble moving forward. Not getting Herro, or what
I heard took the scholarship away from him, and Bo not giving Sam a scholarship was a huge mistake. NO Sam, no Joey. It is not like this state is full of D1 players.
MU will move in to a new building that will be first class, it will impress some of upcoming high school kids as well. Gard will has bigtime work in the future. Style is boring as well. Good luck.
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Exactly.
No offense, bilsu, but statements like yours are silly - which maybe is what you were trying to be.
What matters is that Markus doesn't shoot like Derrick ... thank goodness!
I was not trying to be silly. I posted that Wojo has trouble recruiting point guards, which I found surprising since he was a all-American point guard. I know Howard can play the point guard position if needed, but he is a not a true point guard. The poster also pointed out that Wojo recruited Traci Carter. Carter was a true point guard, but Wojo decided to start Hani over him at point, so how good was Carter who could not beat out a fellow freshmen that was more suited for small forward than he was at point? I have been attending MU games since 1962 and have seen many great point guards. Howard is the best pure shooting guard we have ever had. I am really impressed by his ability this year to drive and make the 2 point shot, which is a significant improvement over last year. He is not a point guard by nature and he is out of position when he plays there. Just like Sam is out of position when he plays the four or subs in at center.
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yup, agree on all counts. Except nothing compares to Bryan/College Station
Ha! On gameday maybe.
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Warmer than it was yesterday.
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Warmer than it was yesterday.
Thankfully the people that make those decisions are smart enough not to look at a single game result and be influenced whatsoever by it.
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It has gone from 0 Kelvin to 1 Kelvin.
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There is no excuse for our tram to be continually out coached. Our talent is better than our record. The kids don’t look properly prepared. Wojo doesn’t make the necessary adjustments during the game. Our defense is plain awful. It’s becoming obvious that while he’s a good recruiter, he is not a good coach.
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Wojo can loose every game by 100 points for the next 10 years and he will not be fired by Marquette because he does things the right way.
It's 100% true........... I heard it on MUScoop!
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There is no excuse for our tram to be continually out coached. Our talent is better than our record. The kids don’t look properly prepared. Wojo doesn’t make the necessary adjustments during the game. Our defense is plain awful. It’s becoming obvious that while he’s a good recruiter, he is not a good coach.
Once the streetcar is operational, it should solve all of our tram issues.
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I'd say its at about 4 on a 1 to 10 scale after last night.
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Once the streetcar is operational, it should solve all of our tram issues.
Stretch got auto-corrected on the way to the (wojciechow)SKI tram.
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I have no idea how warm his seat is, and I also still don’t know whether Wojo is capable of coaching. And that’s a serious problem that we should all be concerned about
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I have no idea how warm his seat is, and I also still don’t know whether Wojo is capable of coaching. And that’s a serious problem that we should all be concerned about
He's like our freshmen right now. You see flashes here and there of being able to compete at a high level, but then there are moments that make you just shake your head.
I expect that from 18 year old kids, but I sure wish Wojo's experience would begin to show on the floor more often.
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Wojo's comments are mind-boggling too. Last night, he leads with "No excuses," before rattling off a list of excuses about being tired after Nova and being young. After the Nova loss it was bad calls by the refs. After Xavier it was too much time off between games.
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If donations drop significantly and season ticket sales drop dramatically, and the school is losing money or not making much, then the heat will be turned up. Until then, no.
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Wojo's comments are mind-boggling too. Last night, he leads with "No excuses," before rattling off a list of excuses about being tired after Nova and being young. After the Nova loss it was bad calls by the refs. After Xavier it was too much time off between games.
Absolutely agree. I just watched the post game interview and I didn't think I could get anymore pissed off then I was last night, I was wrong... wtf is his deal?
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If donations drop significantly and season ticket sales drop dramatically, and the school is losing money or not making much, then the heat will be turned up. Until then, no.
100% agree. The open question is how close is that to happening. The Athletic Department closely monitors the ratio of 'basketball dollars spent/return on that investment'. I've heard Bill speak of it personally. And if you don't think that Lovell is an empirical stats junky.....
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I'd say its at about 4 on a 1 to 10 scale after last night.
If I am an AD or a President, there really are only too settings...on or off. So there is endless patience until there isn't. Most notably because of...
If donations drop significantly and season ticket sales drop dramatically, and the school is losing money or not making much, then the heat will be turned up. Until then, no.
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The seat is ice cold.
Anyone who says otherwise is clueless, and that's putting it nicely.
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Ice cold. Didn't even warm up yesterday. Not one degree.
Single game results no matta to coaching seats. Season results matta. Wojo goes 5-3 the rest of the way and he's met the season goal.
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Zero warmth in season....we'll see where we are when the season ends.
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Ice cold. Didn't even warm up yesterday. Not one degree.
Single game results no matta to coaching seats. Season results matta. Wojo goes 5-3 the rest of the way and he's met the season goal.
Exactly, season to season he has shown improvement every year. If he gets us in the tournament this year, still very possible, it would also have to be considered improvement, when comparing experience difference from last year to this.
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Looking at where the scholarship table sits, and how the classes have been balanced, I can't imagine why anyone would want to upend the program before the 2019-2020 season.
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Warmer than it was yesterday.
#FakeNews
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Absolutely agree. I just watched the post game interview and I didn't think I could get anymore pissed off then I was last night, I was wrong... wtf is his deal?
The one I saw he said no excuses it was all on him
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Once the streetcar is operational, it should solve all of our tram issues.
I bet it improves recruiting
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Ice cold. Didn't even warm up yesterday. Not one degree.
Single game results no matta to coaching seats. Season results matta. Wojo goes 5-3 the rest of the way and he's met the season goal.
But here's the thing. If SeatWarmth=f(SeasonResults), and SeasonResults=∑_i(Game_i), where SuccessfulSeason={1 if ∑_i(Game_i)>NCAA ticket (or NIT, or whatever your metric is)
{0 if ∑_i(Game_i)<NCAA entrance
then p(SuccessfulSeason) goes down after each loss. And seat warmth increases. If Vegas gave odds on Wojo getting fired (do they?) they should have gone up last night.
Now Tower may well be right that the move was from 0 to 1 kelvin, but I can't imagine too many of the top brass think the season is currently exceeding expectations. Maybe on expectations for some. Probably lower than expectations for others. Certainly higher probability of a top brass member thinking the season is currently trending below expectations than above.
Still time to turn it around (we go 8-0 on the way out and p(SuccessfulSeason)=1), but it's getting harder.
Really need the win Saturday.
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Ice cold. Didn't even warm up yesterday. Not one degree.
Single game results no matta to coaching seats. Season results matta. Wojo goes 5-3 the rest of the way and he's met the season goal.
i completely agree this is how it should be...but i have seen powerful alum get pissed over specific games and situations where i think it does make a difference with administration.
i always figured wojo was absolutely going to get next year, in part because you wouldn't want joey backing out. joey decommitting isn't an option anymore...so i would imagine the MU gig might look nice to some coaches as the cabinet surely isn't empty and wojo leaving likely wouldn't result in players looking to leave/decommitt. i still believe wojo is here for many more years...but if i'm an AD i would be thinking i have more to sell right now then i might ever have again, and you bring in someone who can coach and you should get instant results. i also understand the cabinet is stocked because of wojo...
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But here's the thing. If SeatWarmth=f(SeasonResults), and SeasonResults=∑_i(Game_i), where SuccessfulSeason={1 if ∑_i(Game_i)>NCAA ticket (or NIT, or whatever your metric is)
{0 if ∑_i(Game_i)<NCAA entrance
then p(SuccessfulSeason) goes down after each loss. And seat warmth increases. If Vegas gave odds on Wojo getting fired (do they?) they should have gone up last night.
Now Tower may well be right that the move was from 0 to 1 kelvin, but I can't imagine too many of the top brass think the season is currently exceeding expectations. Maybe on expectations for some. Probably lower than expectations for others. Certainly higher probability of a top brass member thinking the season is currently trending below expectations than above.
Still time to turn it around (we go 8-0 on the way out and p(SuccessfulSeason)=1), but it's getting harder.
Really need the win Saturday.
Scary thing...I can follow this post a bit better than 4never's posts...
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Dr. B
That made me laugh.
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There is no excuse for our tram to be continually out coached. Our talent is better than our record. The kids don’t look properly prepared. Wojo doesn’t make the necessary adjustments during the game. Our defense is plain awful. It’s becoming obvious that while he’s a good recruiter, he is not a good coach.
In both Butler games you could see that Butler's players had quicker first steps and were quicker leapers. They also were better shooters. You will also see in the next game that the Providence players have a quicker first step and are quicker leapers.
Howard can really score, but there are reasons why he will not be on the Big East's first team. It is quite obvious that Villanova, Xavier, Butler, Seton Hall, Creighton and Providence have more talent than MU and that is why we will behind them in the Big East.
You can question Wojo's coaching ability if you want, but at least open your eyes to our talent level. It is not as good as you think it is.
In the end the coach is responsible for the talent level on his team and I would give Wojo a C- in recruiting,
because more than half the teams in the Big East have more talent than MU.
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Win or lose, Wojo is not going anywhere.
SAorry Goose, he is not getting the job done. Turn around should have begun last year. It did not.
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SAorry Goose, he is not getting the job done. Turn around should have begun last year. It did not.
We made the ncaa tournament last year. I think thats a bit of a turnaround no?
That said I haven't been sold on Wojo at all. Next year is his last if the ncaa is missed.
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We made the ncaa tournament last year. I think thats a bit of a turnaround no?
That said I haven't been sold on Wojo at all. Next year is his last if the ncaa is missed.
k, and lost first game. We went from 20-13 to 19-13 last year. Not much of a turn around. And what are we this year, 13-9, so if we go 6-4, we would be "no improvement"
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k, and lost first game. We went from 20-13 to 19-13 last year. Not much of a turn around. And what are we this year, 13-9, so if we go 6-4, we would be "no improvement"
Um.. doesn't SOS factor in?
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We made the ncaa tournament last year. I think thats a bit of a turnaround no?
That said I haven't been sold on Wojo at all. Next year is his last if the ncaa is missed.
That's where I'm at, too
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Um.. doesn't SOS factor in?
That concept is too advanced for willie
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That said I haven't been sold on Wojo at all. Next year is his last if the ncaa is missed.
I doubt it, especially if we make it this year. However, if we don't make it next year, that will be the first time that his seat will legitimately warm. The season after that will be the do or die year.
Wojo sold the university on a five year rebuild. So far he has met the season goal every year. He hasn't exceeded them, but he's met them. I don't think they'd fire him the first time he didn't hit his mark though I could be wrong.
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100% agree. The open question is how close is that to happening. The Athletic Department closely monitors the ratio of 'basketball dollars spent/return on that investment'. I've heard Bill speak of it personally. And if you don't think that Lovell is an empirical stats junky.....
Does the new tax rules effect college bball donations? Wonder if this will have an effect on future salaries?
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We made the ncaa tournament last year. I think thats a bit of a turnaround no?
That said I haven't been sold on Wojo at all. Next year is his last if the ncaa is missed.
First, I don't think we miss the NCAA this year or next year. Second, even if we don't make it next year I don't think he would be gone nor do I think he should. Seat should definitely be warm but I think changing a coach is kind of a nuclear option depending on what is out there to replace Wojo with.
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We are a little to slow, a little to short, a little to light, a little to young, a little to nice (not one thug), so we lose a little more than we win.
The BOT got exactly what they wanted, a class act all the way around. The low risk approach gets the results we see.
I think we lose because we are not aggressive or athletic enough. Can that be coached?
Recently, I really enjoyed watching V.Tec beat NC, ND and BC.
I vote to stick with Wojo, I like the image.
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First, I don't think we miss the NCAA this year or next year. Second, even if we don't make it next year I don't think he would be gone nor do I think he should. Seat should definitely be warm but I think changing a coach is kind of a nuclear option depending on what is out there to replace Wojo with.
Agreed, it is what it is, accept it.
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Does the new tax rules effect college bball donations? Wonder if this will have an effect on future salaries?
Yes, you can no longer deduct 80% of your seat donation. Colleges are very concerned that this will have a big impact on season ticket sales. We were given the opportunity to renew our gopher football tickets in December and we grabbed it.
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We are a little to slow, a little to short, a little to light, a little to young, a little to nice (not one thug), so we lose a little more than we win.
Your comment is a lot too light on the second "o" in "to."
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We are a little to slow, a little to short, a little to light, a little to young, a little to nice (not one thug), so we lose a little more than we win.
The BOT got exactly what they wanted, a class act all the way around. The low risk approach gets the results we see.
I think we lose because we are not aggressive or athletic enough. Can that be coached?
Recently, I really enjoyed watching V.Tec beat NC, ND and BC.
I vote to stick with Wojo, I like the image.
It can be recruited though. Not saying I disagree with you. I agree stick with wojo, but these are all his guys he and Stan Recruited.
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First, I don't think we miss the NCAA this year or next year. Second, even if we don't make it next year I don't think he would be gone nor do I think he should. Seat should definitely be warm but I think changing a coach is kind of a nuclear option depending on what is out there to replace Wojo with.
This x100. And not to bump my own post, but we shouldn't even think about going nuclear before Wojo has a chance to run through a full cycle with his guys. If we haven't enjoyed a taste of the good life by the end of the 2019-2020 season, then we need to have this talk. But in the meantime, anyone that thinks that Marquette firing Wojo before that class graduates wouldn't have a deterrent effect on other prospective coaches woefully overestimates the desirability of the MU job.
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This x100. And not to bump my own post, but we shouldn't even think about going nuclear before Wojo has a chance to run through a full cycle with his guys. If we haven't enjoyed a taste of the good life by the end of the 2019-2020 season, then we need to have this talk. But in the meantime, anyone that thinks that Marquette firing Wojo before that class graduates wouldn't have a deterrent effect on other prospective coaches woefully overestimates the desirability of the MU job.
Oh stop it. You and mu03eng and TAMU and a few others with your reasoned takes and your logical conclusions ... you're mucking up a perfectly good panic!!!
I say FIRE WOJO 2 YEARS AGO! Then we kill him (slowly) and eat his entrails!!!
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Does the new tax rules effect college bball donations? Wonder if this will have an effect on future salaries?
Yes, you can't deduct the donation anymore. However, I may be wrong (I often am) but I don't believe the B&G fund is used to pay the coach (at least not yet). If I am correct the initial purpose of B&G is to endow every scholarship MU gives (basketball has been covered for a while), then every coaching/training position in the non-revs thus making them revenue neutral, then maybe start endowing endowing basketball positions. I haven't spoken with anyone in the AD about it but that's the impression I get reading the B&G page.
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This x100. And not to bump my own post, but we shouldn't even think about going nuclear before Wojo has a chance to run through a full cycle with his guys. If we haven't enjoyed a taste of the good life by the end of the 2019-2020 season, then we need to have this talk. But in the meantime, anyone that thinks that Marquette firing Wojo before that class graduates wouldn't have a deterrent effect on other prospective coaches woefully overestimates the desirability of the MU job.
I'm with you 100%. Plus, CBB seasons (like CBB games) are compiled of a series of runs. Every team goes through a rough patch or two during the season.
One thing i'm curious about is if anyone knows the distribution of the opponent scouting responsibilities. Its been noted that each assistant is given specific opponents to scout, is there any chance the same person who scouted and put together the game plan for Butler (both games) did it for our other two clunkers (GA and Eastern IL)?
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Those calling for Wojo's head, who's the alternative?
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Shaka Smart (after fired from Texas) or Tom Crean.
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Yes, you can't deduct the donation anymore. However, I may be wrong (I often am) but I don't believe the B&G fund is used to pay the coach (at least not yet). If I am correct the initial purpose of B&G is to endow every scholarship MU gives (basketball has been covered for a while), then every coaching/training position in the non-revs thus making them revenue neutral, then maybe start endowing endowing basketball positions. I haven't spoken with anyone in the AD about it but that's the impression I get reading the B&G page.
It doesn't really matter. It's all money that can be spent somewhere.
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Those calling for Wojo's head, who's the alternative?
Wardle.
Heard some info though that the admin loves Wojo and his seat is ice cold, regardless of NCAAs this year. Not the news I was hoping to hear.
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Wardle.
Heard some info though that the admin loves Wojo and his seat is ice cold, regardless of NCAAs this year. Not the news I was hoping to hear.
Lets see after the new arena is being used as a selling point to new recruits, it should be the most impressive stadium in the country. I expect good things down the
line in recruiting because I know one thing, MU has the budget to recruit and Wojo and group work there ass off trying to find good talent.
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Any chance we ever get to see Wardle's Braves vs. our Warriors?
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Wardle.
Heard some info though that the admin loves Wojo and his seat is ice cold, regardless of NCAAs this year. Not the news I was hoping to hear.
Why on earth would the administration consider getting rid of him now when all but two of his players are freshmen and sophomores? With a nice class coming in next year? All while having zero off-court issues and zero indication of anything shady going on recruiting wise?
And Wardle might end up being a really good coach but we have a couple years to figure out where everyone stands. Get used to it.
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Wardle.
Heard some info though that the admin loves Wojo and his seat is ice cold, regardless of NCAAs this year.
As it should be. The admin got what they wanted as far as building and running a squeaky clean program. This year, with the roster make up, should be a down year. Admin is taking a long view.
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Wardle.
Heard some info though that the admin loves Wojo and his seat is ice cold, regardless of NCAAs this year. Not the news I was hoping to hear.
Can you cite why exactly Wardle would do better at MU compared Wojo? I mean other than "he gets Marquette" because he played here.
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As it should be. The admin got what they wanted as far as building and running a squeaky clean program. This year, with the roster make up, should be a down year. Admin is taking a long view.
I disagree it should be a down year this year....I think it should be at worst a flat year compared to last year. If we don't make the NCAA we underachieved.
Having said this, if that happens this would be the first year we underachieved so I'm certainly not going to panic about it
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I disagree it should be a down year this year....I think it should be at worst a flat year compared to last year. If we don't make the NCAA we underachieved.
Marquette replaced JJJ (solid, four year player), Luke (best interior scorer), Duane (three year player) and Katin (solid grad transfer) with three freshmen, none of whom were highly ranked, and a mid-year transfer.
Yeah I know players develop from year to year. But I have no idea you think this team should have been at the same level as last year.
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Marquette replaced JJJ (solid, four year player), Luke (best interior scorer), Duane (three year player) and Katin (solid grad transfer) with three freshmen, none of whom were highly ranked, and a mid-year transfer.
Yeah I know players develop from year to year. But I have no idea you think this team should have been at the same level as last year.
Difference between pre-season (I don't know the new players) and in-season (I know what we're capable of). The pieces we've lost haven't been replaced one for one but this year our talent is better than last year and our experience is less. For me it works out to be net neutral so we should expect a bid this season.
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On a 1-10 scale, a 6 talent with 4 years of experience usually beats an 8-9 talent with one year of experience. See: Mid-major upsets in the NCAA tourney. It is almost always a team of 4 year guys upsetting a young talented team. Or at least scaring the hell out of them. I think that this group has a higher ceiling compared to last year's team, but it won't be reached this season. I think Cain is going to be really good, but we have just seen him get thrown to the ground at a critical juncture by a 4th year junior with 25 lbs of muscle. We have watched Theo and Greg's ups and downs. I think Greg can start at the point next year and I am giddy about what Theo's ceiling as a junior or senior might be. They have progressed well, a rebuttal to those who say Wojo can't develop talent. But they were never supposed to be instant impact players and they aren't.
My point is that if Wojo DOES turn this roster into a second weekend team, as Herman so blithely predicts, it will be a coaching job on a par with Buzz and the midgets.
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Difference between pre-season (I don't know the new players) and in-season (I know what we're capable of). The pieces we've lost haven't been replaced one for one but this year our talent is better than last year and our experience is less. For me it works out to be net neutral so we should expect a bid this season.
I don't think our talent is better this year.
JJJ>>>>Jamal
Luke>>>>Theo
Duane = Greg (And I'm being generous here)
Katin and Harry are hard to compare
And yeah you essentially are replacing players who had a combined 15 years of experience with a combined half-year experience.
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What's most troublesome to me is how badly the team is getting beat, losing at home, lack of player development and incomplete roster, seemingly being out coached, and a terrible defense. As for recruiting, I'd rate Wojo a 6 on a scale of 10 given the resources available to him. It all raises legitimate concerns as to the head coach's ability to lead this program back to elite status.
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What's most troublesome to me is how badly the team is getting beat, losing at home, lack of player development and incomplete roster, seemingly being out coached, and a terrible defense. As for recruiting, I'd rate Wojo a 6 on a scale of 10 given the resources available to him. It all raises legitimate concerns as to the head coach's ability to lead this program back to elite status.
I'm having trouble understanding. Can you translate that into your usual jargon so I can figure out what you meant?
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Sho 'nough, Bro. It all sucks ass, aina?
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Sho 'nough, Bro. It all sucks ass, aina?
Got it. Thanks.
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What's most troublesome to me is how badly the team is getting beat, losing at home, lack of player development and incomplete roster, seemingly being out coached, and a terrible defense. As for recruiting, I'd rate Wojo a 6 on a scale of 10 given the resources available to him. It all raises legitimate concerns as to the head coach's ability to lead this program back to elite status.
Incomplete roster for sure. I think there are legit questions about building a BE quality roster.
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Sho 'nough, Bro. It all sucks ass, aina?
Goddammit that's funny
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I think this thread has resurfaced because of how truly bad the team played last night. I can't remember when a MU team gave no effort in a home game like that and I think that has a lot of fans upset thus a 'Wojo's seat' topic to the top of the board.
A single loss does not merit a call for Wojo's job nor does his record overall at MU in my opinion. But I think reasonable people/fans can disagree on that point. I believe with MU's resources, conference affiliation, fan support and history you can rationally argue that a coach could produce better results than Wojo has so far. On the other hand I believe he has done a good job overall and has the program headed in the right direction and I am willing to give him more time to get the program to a level of success that I think it can reasonably be at.
As for Wojo's seat, I heard earlier, coming into this season, that the people who matter were happy with the direction things were going and I suspect there has been nothing to change their opinion. But remember, as in most well run organizations, someone like Wojo's seat will be Ice Cold until the moment he is fired.
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Lets see after the new arena is being used as a selling point to new recruits, it should be the most impressive stadium in the country. I expect good things down the
line in recruiting because I know one thing, MU has the budget to recruit and Wojo and group work there ass off trying to find good talent.
The recruits want an NBA track record, not a fancy arena.
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Your comment is a lot too light on the second "o" in "to."
Interesting, at first I used "too", but it did not look right. I looked up the deninition of to vs. too, I chose "to".
You may be right, but I did not want to say they are to, to, to young or too young, etc.
They are just a little to young, light, short, etc..
Thanks anyway, its better than talking about the games.
The BOT are happy, they have what they want, a good image.
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The recruits want an NBA track record, not a fancy arena.
I'm my experience they want both.
Interesting, at first I used "too", but it did not look right. I looked up the deninition of to vs. too, I chose "to".
You may be right, but I did not want to say they are to, to, to young or too young, etc.
They are just a little to young, light, short, etc..
Thanks anyway, its better than talking about the games.
The BOT are happy, they have what they want, a good image.
Happy for now. Good image is important. Winning is just as important.
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Goddammit that's funny
Yessir, dat sho is funny.
Funny like Stepin Fetchit.
He can pretend whatever he wants, and I won’t bother to try to figure out where his heart is. Maybe he really is obtuse (as Andy might say) and thinks the act is funny and not offensive and an embarrassment to this board and MU.
But it’s not funny. It is an embarrasment. And it’s racist.
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We are a little to slow, a little to short, a little to light, a little to young, a little to nice (not one thug), so we lose a little more than we win.
The BOT got exactly what they wanted, a class act all the way around. The low risk approach gets the results we see.
I think we lose because we are not aggressive or athletic enough. Can that be coached?
Recently, I really enjoyed watching V.Tec beat NC, ND and BC.
I vote to stick with Wojo, I like the image.
Wojo is 100% responsible for this team. Starting with the recruitment, training and coaching of the team. He is highly paid to win. This isn't high school. Unfortunately he is not succeeding. I wish it weren't so, but, it is what we see.
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Yessir, dat sho is funny.
Funny like Stepin Fetchit.
He can pretend whatever he wants, and I won’t bother to try to figure out where his heart is. Maybe he really is obtuse (as Andy might say) and thinks the act is funny and not offensive and an embarrassment to this board and MU.
But it’s not funny. It is an embarrasment. And it’s racist.
OK, as one of the resident social liberals who doesn't see it, i have to ask....racist against whom? My take was that his schtick was being a rural Wisconsinite, like one of the characters in Making a Murderer, amped up to 11.
Edit: i had to look up Stepin Fetchit. He's WAY more Allan Avery than Stepin Fetchit.
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Two different situations. Wojo was an outsider who was given a dumpster fire and has made slow progress every season. We can also look ahead and see that the next two seasons will be great on paper at least.
Gard was an insider who was given a team that was expected to be a top competitor for at least the next two years. Badger fans are looking ahead and they see a 2018 recruiting class with 2 low three star recruits (one of whom is a walk on) and their highest rated recruit since Dekker decomitting. The future is a little more cloudy. And fair or not, the manner in which Gard got the job changes the expectations a little bit.
All that being said, I think it is premature for Gard's seat to get warm. A step back should have been expected this season with four starters graduating. They have a lot of losses but they are all to quality teams. The only "unacceptable" loss was the 25 point beatdown at home by Ohio State. Even if they miss the postseason this year, they have zero seniors and should be in a for a bounceback year. Now if that doesn't go as well.....then I think Gard's derriere starts to get a little sweaty.
I think your overly dramatic by classifying MU as a dumpster fire at that time. Yes, it is true Buzz had lost the fire in the belly but we were coming off a winning season and Buzz had some decent recruits coming in. If he had stayed I doubt we would have had the train wreck we did in 2014-15.
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/9fb06daeb532e26115a0a3a248c74b6d/tenor.gif?itemid=4685458)
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On a 1-10 scale, a 6 talent with 4 years of experience usually beats an 8-9 talent with one year of experience. See: Mid-major upsets in the NCAA tourney. It is almost always a team of 4 year guys upsetting a young talented team. Or at least scaring the hell out of them. I think that this group has a higher ceiling compared to last year's team, but it won't be reached this season. I think Cain is going to be really good, but we have just seen him get thrown to the ground at a critical juncture by a 4th year junior with 25 lbs of muscle. We have watched Theo and Greg's ups and downs. I think Greg can start at the point next year and I am giddy about what Theo's ceiling as a junior or senior might be. They have progressed well, a rebuttal to those who say Wojo can't develop talent. But they were never supposed to be instant impact players and they aren't.
My point is that if Wojo DOES turn this roster into a second weekend team, as Herman so blithely predicts, it will be a coaching job on a par with Buzz and the midgets.
Greg is doing a very good job this year, despite a nagging injury. Really looking forward to him running the offense next year. Greg has excellent chemistry with all the players on floor and I think as he gets older that gets even more valuable .
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Just win baby!
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/9fb06daeb532e26115a0a3a248c74b6d/tenor.gif?itemid=4685458)
So much awesome in one GIF:
- are they playing at some sort of St. Patty's Valentine gig?
- should the bassist get immediate help for his scoliosis or is that necklace deceptively heavy?
- striped ascot. bold choice but it works.
- "are we singing backup or doing equestrian training tonight?"...."i don't know but where your knee high boots just in case"
i have more but i'll stop
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OK, as one of the resident social liberals who doesn't see it, i have to ask....racist against whom? My take was that his schtick was being a rural Wisconsinite, like one of the characters in Making a Murderer, amped up to 11.
I don't view 4ever's schtick as racist, either.
Tired as my 92-year-old father-in-law, and often unintelligible, but not racist.
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So much awesome in one GIF:
- are they playing at some sort of St. Patty's Valentine gig?
- should the bassist get immediate help for his scoliosis or is that necklace deceptively heavy?
- striped ascot. bold choice but it works.
- "are we singing backup or doing equestrian training tonight?"...."i don't know but where your knee high boots just in case"
i have more but i'll stop
Solid analysis
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Wojo is 100% responsible for this team. Starting with the recruitment, training and coaching of the team. He is highly paid to win. This isn't high school. Unfortunately he is not succeeding. I wish it weren't so, but, it is what we see.
Won 20 games in his second season, which included a fine year for a 5-star recruit who went on to be a first-round draft pick.
Went to the NCAAs in his third season with a very entertaining team that beat defending champion and top-ranked Villanova as well as several other ranked teams.
Still has a chance at the NCAAs this season. Might fall short, might not.
His recruiting class for next year, along with the transfer from Nebraska he signed, portents very good things to come.
And the program has been squeaky clean (that we know of), just as the administration demanded.
I guess we could debate if that's "not succeeding," but IMHO it certainly isn't failing.
Now, let's take a look at our other choices.
Ben Howland, who ran a suspicious (but winning) program at UCLA, is now in his third season at Mississippi State. He went 14-17 in his first season, 16-16 in his second and is 16-6 this season. They have yet to have a winning record in the mediocre SEC. They are not listed anywhere in anybody's bracketology, not even "next 4 out."
Not succeeding.
Cuonzo Martin had one NCAA tournament appearance - resulting in a first-round loss despite the presence of 2 NBA players - in 3 years at Cal (the same as Wojo had in his first 3 years at MU). Never one to hang around anywhere very long (in other words, he would have seen MU as a stepping-stone job for sure), he bolted on his contract and left the cupboard bare at Cal to scoot for Missouri, where he is 14-8; bracketology has him as a "first 4 out."
Not succeeding.
Shaka Smart went 11-22 in his second season at Texas and his team isn't even mentioned in bracketology despite the presence of a 7-foot center who is expected to be a top-3 NBA pick.
Not succeeding.
Any of those 3 might have done better here than Wojo has ... or might not have. They certainly haven't shown they would have.
No matter how much some Scoopers whine, Wojo will be in the same cool seat next season. I think his lads will do very well. But yes, we'll see.
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Shaka......Shaka.......Shaka.
A loooong time ago I said you have a strange factuation with Shaka.
You continue to not disappoint in that area. Any chance you get.
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I think your overly dramatic by classifying MU as a dumpster fire at that time. Yes, it is true Buzz had lost the fire in the belly but we were coming off a winning season and Buzz had some decent recruits coming in. If he had stayed I doubt we would have had the train wreck we did in 2014-15.
....but Buzz did leave. Causing all but one of those decent recruits to decommit. Wojo took over a team that missed the NIT, lost 6/7 of the top rotation players....which was Derrick Wilson...and lost its entire recruiting class...except Sandy Cohen.
I suppose when you keep in mind all the resources the Marquette has, dumpster fire is a harsh statement. But there was no coach that could turn that roster into an NCAA tournament team
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Won 20 games in his second season, which included a fine year for a 5-star recruit who went on to be a first-round draft pick.
Went to the NCAAs in his third season with a very entertaining team that beat defending champion and top-ranked Villanova as well as several other ranked teams.
Still has a chance at the NCAAs this season. Might fall short, might not.
His recruiting class for next year, along with the transfer from Nebraska he signed, portents very good things to come.
And the program has been squeaky clean (that we know of), just as the administration demanded.
I guess we could debate if that's "not succeeding," but IMHO it certainly isn't failing.
Now, let's take a look at our other choices.
Ben Howland, who ran a suspicious (but winning) program at UCLA, is now in his third season at Mississippi State. He went 14-17 in his first season, 16-16 in his second and is 16-6 this season. They have yet to have a winning record in the mediocre SEC. They are not listed anywhere in anybody's bracketology, not even "next 4 out."
Not succeeding.
Cuonzo Martin had one NCAA tournament appearance - resulting in a first-round loss despite the presence of 2 NBA players - in 3 years at Cal (the same as Wojo had in his first 3 years at MU). Never one to hang around anywhere very long (in other words, he would have seen MU as a stepping-stone job for sure), he bolted on his contract and left the cupboard bare at Cal to scoot for Missouri, where he is 14-8; bracketology has him as a "first 4 out."
Not succeeding.
Shaka Smart went 11-22 in his second season at Texas and his team isn't even mentioned in bracketology despite the presence of a 7-foot center who is expected to be a top-3 NBA pick.
Not succeeding.
Any of those 3 might have done better here than Wojo has ... or might not have. They certainly haven't shown they would have.
No matter how much some Scoopers whine, Wojo will be in the same cool seat next season. I think his lads will do very well. But yes, we'll see.
Lunardi currently has Texas as a 9 seed
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Lunardi currently has Texas as a 9 seed
Thank you. Wasn't trying to deceive. I did a "find" with Texas and for some reason it didn't come up. See it now.
So there you have it. Texas is a projected 9 seed at the moment and we are only a projected 11-seed. Shaka is killin' it compared to Wojo!
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I'm my experience they want both.
Happy for now. Good image is important. Winning is just as important.
In my view you can't have both, unless you are Duke. We are the Princeton or Bucknell of the Big East.
The big time recruits want an NBA career, not a fancy dorm room or arena. The only way to win, unless you are Duke, is with a chip on your shoulder. Junkyard dogs are not easily impressed or intimidated.
We talk a lot about coaching, defensive schemes, game plans, etc., but it is simply that we are being intimidated. Our coach says it is because we are toooooo young, he may be right. On the court, I don't see any of our very nice young men turning into basketball thugs.
Oh, and we are far toooo concerened with comitting fouls. I'll stop there, I think I have made my point.
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Shaka turned MU down. Wojo was the better choice of those in consideration. Should they have considered Bobby Hurley or Bryce Drew instead? Perhaps. But their names weren't being mentioned at the time.
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Anybody who thinks Wojo’s seat is anywhere near tepid should have their head examined. We are lucky to have him. He’s the best recruiter we’ve had since Al, he’s nationally known, he’s likable...he’s a perfect fit for Marquette.
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Anybody who thinks Wojo’s seat is anywhere near tepid should have their head examined. We are lucky to have him. He’s the best recruiter we’ve had since Al, he’s nationally known, he’s likable...he’s a perfect fit for Marquette.
Hay PR Nightmare, I have a close friend, former co-worker, FEMA manager in Puerto Rico, we have no idea how bad it is. Peace
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Wojo has a long way to go to make this program better than a year in and year out bubble team. The roster is filled with mostly players that would be good role players on upper end teams. Watching the X and 'Nova games only confirmed my believe that there is a great deal of work to be done to reach the next level.
Wojo is not going anywhere soon and we will see what next year brings. For those expecting a higher level of success next season, I hope you are right. At this point, based on Wojo's coaching ability, I do not have the same level of optimism. You need to have studs or a stud as a coach. IMO, they are lacking on both fronts.
As 4ever noted, the recruiting and on court success does not match the investment made in the program. The money invested in the program should lead to far better success than the last fours years have shown. Wojo has to get things moving on a much faster level of trajectory moving forward. We will see what happens.
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Hay PR Nightmare, I have a close friend, former co-worker, FEMA manager in Puerto Rico, we have no idea how bad it is. Peace
Rando. What does Butch Lee's nickname have to do with this commentary of this topic?
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If the recruiting that Wojo is doing "does not match the investment made in the program" Crean and Buzz must have gotten an F in that department!
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If the recruiting that Wojo is doing "does not match the investment made in the program" Crean and Buzz must have gotten an F in that department!
Wojo comment aside...Buzz got some very great players for the program. Not sure why you would give him an f.
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Hay PR Nightmare, I have a close friend, former co-worker, FEMA manager in Puerto Rico, we have no idea how bad it is. Peace
Rican lives in chicago, kin.
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What's most troublesome to me is how badly the team is getting beat, losing at home, lack of player development and incomplete roster, seemingly being out coached, and a terrible defense. As for recruiting, I'd rate Wojo a 6 on a scale of 10 given the resources available to him. It all raises legitimate concerns as to the head coach's ability to lead this program back to elite status.
Whoa, he's pissed off. ⬇️
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If the recruiting that Wojo is doing "does not match the investment made in the program" Crean and Buzz must have gotten an F in that department!
How could you give Crean and Buzz an F in recruiting? These are the guys that brought us Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, Wes Matthews, Jerel McNeal, Jimmy Butler, Lazar, Jae, etc, etc, etc. If you think consistently bringing in NBA-caliber talent gets an F, you must have an awfully high bar.
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If the recruiting that Wojo is doing "does not match the investment made in the program" Crean and Buzz must have gotten an F in that department!
Idiotic comments like this totally derail any intelligent debate. I can only assume that was the intent and move on to reasoned thoughts on either side of Wojo's performance.
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Wojo has a long way to go to make this program better than a year in and year out bubble team. The roster is filled with mostly players that would be good role players on upper end teams. Watching the X and 'Nova games only confirmed my believe that there is a great deal of work to be done to reach the next level.
Wojo is not going anywhere soon and we will see what next year brings. For those expecting a higher level of success next season, I hope you are right. At this point, based on Wojo's coaching ability, I do not have the same level of optimism. You need to have studs or a stud as a coach. IMO, they are lacking on both fronts.
As 4ever noted, the recruiting and on court success does not match the investment made in the program. The money invested in the program should lead to far better success than the last fours years have shown. Wojo has to get things moving on a much faster level of trajectory moving forward. We will see what happens.
Agree with all of the above, but Wojo, after almost 4 years and with his Duke pedigree has proven that he can recruit (but not as well as several others in BEast), and has not proven that he can game coach or motivate the talent. He has lots of resources, and after almost 4 years is still at best, middle of the pack to lowest tier BEast. But we keep waiting until next year, to get the same level of performance. Guess we should all agree that we are mid major status, and give up on elite dreams.
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How could you give Crean and Buzz an F in recruiting? These are the guys that brought us Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, Wes Matthews, Jerel McNeal, Jimmy Butler, Lazar, Jae, etc, etc, etc. If you think consistently bringing in NBA-caliber talent gets an F, you must have an awfully high bar.
Agreed. In fact I’m not sure what makes people think Wojo has outrecruited either Crean or Buzz
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Wojo comment aside...Buzz got some very great players for the program. Not sure why you would give him an f.
Idiotic comments like this totally derail any intelligent debate. I can only assume that was the intent and move on to reasoned thoughts on either side of Wojo's performance.
How could you give Crean and Buzz an F in recruiting? These are the guys that brought us Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, Wes Matthews, Jerel McNeal, Jimmy Butler, Lazar, Jae, etc, etc, etc. If you think consistently bringing in NBA-caliber talent gets an F, you must have an awfully high bar.
You guys should go back and read TAMU's post in context with what Goose said and then report back with your findings. Because he didn't say what you thought he said.
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(https://cornerstoreglory.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/emeco-111-navy-chair-ice.jpg)
width=500 is your friend.
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You guys should go back and read TAMU's post in context with what Goose said and then report back with your findings. Because he didn't say what you thought he said.
I know exactly what he said. He said Wojo is a far superior recruiter to Buzz and Crean. I took exception with his characterization and don’t believe it’s accurate.
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I know exactly what he said. He said Wojo is a far superior recruiter to Buzz and Crean. I took exception with his characterization and don’t believe it’s accurate.
He didn't say that either.
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2 Kelvin, Tower?
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I'm up to a 6 of 10 after today.
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2 Kelvin, Tower?
Nope.
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Sultan
You are correct. The BOT bets there are more of you, than anti Wojo guys. You win!!!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgo_wNeBypA
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(https://cornerstoreglory.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/emeco-111-navy-chair-ice.jpg)
width=500 is your friend.
Good picture, brought to us by Captain Objectivity adorning Blue and Gold Sunglasses.
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I admit it .. Wojo's seat is ice cold in the only place it matters: Inside MU.
He's a nice guy. The program is clean. We're thisclose to mediocre and "next season will be better."
It's hard to fathom the exact circumstances whereby the BOT or, I dunno, Bill Scholl, decide enough is enough. The institutional inertia is 10/10.
I suppose one of the triggers is season ticket sales, which will be artificially buoyed by moving to a new stadium, kicking the inevitable decision an extra 1-2 years down the road.
In conclusion, invest in Arby's. That stock is going up.
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Wojo was not great in his post game conference.
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Wojo was not great in his post game conference.
How did it compare to his huddles?
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I admit it .. Wojo's seat is ice cold in the only place it matters: Inside MU.
He's a nice guy. The program is clean. We're thisclose to mediocre and "next season will be better."
It's hard to fathom the exact circumstances whereby the BOT or, I dunno, Bill Scholl, decide enough is enough. The institutional inertia is 10/10.
I suppose one of the triggers is season ticket sales, which will be artificially buoyed by moving to a new stadium, kicking the inevitable decision an extra 1-2 years down the road.
In conclusion, invest in Arby's. That stock is going up.
“This close to mediocre”
I have no doubt you’re right, Wojo’s done just enough to keep his job. He’s the Peter Gibbons of the college basketball world.
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How did it compare to his huddles?
Much more clear and sussinct But he did repeat “I have to coach better a lot”
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Dude has a contact for what, the next 4 years? Is there incentive to improve when you're getting paid top 10-20 money for losing 10-12 games?
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Dude has a contact for what, the next 4 years? Is there incentive to improve when you're getting paid top 10-20 money for losing 10-12 games?
Really? You think Wojo isn't motivated to win?
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I have to coach a lot better?
Channeling Belichick.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/xpNbQ2eH7x8qc/200w.gif)
Really? You think Wojo isn't motivated to win?
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Just watched his post game conference. Wow..
All I heard was "were young" a million times.
We don't shoot free throws
"It's all on me cause I'm a bad coach yet we're top 13 on offense"
I really don't think he gets it... I didn't watch a minute of the game yet, but why would Rowsey be in with 4 fouls guarding their 5? Sounded like Theo was doing well, why didn't he play more? He sounded much much more unenjoyable today. Grow a sack, and man up.
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Dude has a contact for what, the next 4 years? Is there incentive to improve when you're getting paid top 10-20 money for losing 10-12 games?
Haven't we lost at least 13 games each year of Wojo, but who is counting?
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Haven't we lost at least 13 games each year of Wojo, but who is counting?
Honestly, we were all shocked you kept up once it hit double digits.
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Honestly, we were all shocked you kept up once it hit double digits.
I am shocked that you can count. Can you?
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Wojo was not great in his post game conference.
Can you summarize?
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Can you summarize?
We are young
We didn’t execute
We are young
Not where we want to be but it’s where we are
I need to coach better
“What exactly did you adjust after the losses to change the momentum coach”
Young - coach better - fist pounding on podium - press conference over
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I am shocked that you can count. Can you?
Did you just come back to someone with the exact same burn they just made on you? Wow, you really got him there willie!
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We are young
We didn’t execute
We are young
Not where we want to be but it’s where we are
I need to coach better
“What exactly did you adjust after the losses to change the momentum coach”
Young - coach better - fist pounding on podium - press conference over
Agree was also frustrated with this.
We are the youngest team in the oldest league. *smiles* This league is a bear. *smiles* We are asking a lot out of guys who have never done this before and we are playing against a team that’s done it four times. I love my team. That’s what I told them after the game.
Not very inspiring if you ask me. I’d expect more of the same moving forward.
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Criticizing a coach over his post game presser is almost as dumb as criticizing him for his huddles.
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Criticizing a coach over his post game presser is almost as dumb as criticizing him for his huddles.
Or the product he puts on the floor
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I realize all of us want want Marquette to be a top 25 program. Trust me I want the same thing. But when I’m at the game today and our best lineup has 3 sophomores and 2 freshman, why are we expecting to beat a team as talented and experienced as providence? To be honest I was excited for this team after the first several games even though preseason I expected a down year. Now we are at expectations. Look at the roster and the ages of our best players. Good things are still to come. I know everyone is sick of hearing about next year but it’s the truth. We will look back on this year as a growing pains year. We have talent. Just need upperclassmen now. Step off the ledge.
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I realize all of us want want Marquette to be a top 25 program. Trust me I want the same thing. But when I’m at the game today and our best lineup has 3 sophomores and 2 freshman, why are we expecting to beat a team as talented and experienced as providence? To be honest I was excited for this team after the first several games even though preseason I expected a down year. Now we are at expectations. Look at the roster and the ages of our best players. Good things are still to come. I know everyone is sick of hearing about next year but it’s the truth. We will look back on this year as a growing pains year. We have talent. Just need upperclassmen now. Step off the ledge.
The same reason Vegas had us favored by 6. That's why. We play below our talent level. Like when we were favored by 3 vs. Butler and lost by 20. How bout that for a reason.
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The same reason Vegas had us favored by 6. That's why. We play below our talent level. Like when we were favored by 3 vs. Butler and lost by 20. How bout that for a reason.
So you think we have more talent than Butler and Providence? Do you watch the games or just check box scores?
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So you think we have more talent than Butler and Providence? Do you watch the games or just check box scores?
Beat providence away and then lost to them at home. Then got blown off the unnatural carnal knowledgeing court by Butler. Both at home. Gave up a career high to a straight up bum vs. Butler. Don't become a bookie........You'll go bankrupt.
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Wojo’s seat is as Ice Cold as a Miller High Life left outside on a January night in Milwaukee.
Tough three game stretch. We came up short. Call next game. That job won’t be decided over three games.
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Beat providence away and then lost to them at home. Then got blown off the unnatural carnal knowledgeing court by Butler. Both at home. Gave up a career high to a straight up bum vs. Butler. Don't become a bookie........You'll go bankrupt.
Not a bookie. Also not sure what any of that has to do with what i said. Condolences on losing money or whatever you’re upset about
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Not a bookie. Also not sure what any of that has to do with what i said. Condolences on losing money or whatever you’re upset about
I know you're not a bookie. You're a moron.
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I know you're not a bookie. You're a moron.
Can always count on jonny boy being active after a loss.
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Can always count on jonny boy being active after a loss.
And if by "active," you mean "posting dumb sh*t" you are correct.
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And if by "active," you mean "posting dumb sh*t" you are correct.
That is accurate.
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That is accurate.
I love it. Two bums who think they know basketball. Keep it coming.
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I love it. Two bums who think they know basketball. Keep it coming.
Shocked that you weren’t around after the Seton Hall game. I might be a bum and I might know nothing about basketball, but I do know we can count on you to be blasting away on the keyboard when MU goes on a losing streak but absolutely MIA when MU plays well. And that is the kind of man that has some balls, folks.
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Shocked that you weren’t around after the Seton Hall game. I might be a bum and I might know nothing about basketball, but I do know we can count on you to be blasting away on the keyboard when MU goes on a losing streak but absolutely MIA when MU plays well. And that is the kind of man that has some balls, folks.
Yeeeees!!!! Great stuff...........More please
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Beat providence away and then lost to them at home. Then got blown off the unnatural carnal knowledgeing court by Butler. Both at home. Gave up a career high to a straight up bum vs. Butler. Don't become a bookie........You'll go bankrupt.
We beat Providence on the road without their best player and it took overtime for us to do it, plus a out of body experience by Markus.
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Well, back to Wojo's seat; in addition to it apparently being ice cold due to Marquette's indifference to having a successful men's basketball program, the bright side is we don't have to worry about Wojo leaving. I think we can all agree that no other program in the country would want our coach (maybe/hopefully in the future). Stress and rumor free off season ahead!
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Well, back to Wojo's seat; in addition to it apparently being ice cold due to Marquette's indifference to having a successful men's basketball program,m
Laughable.
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I don't think Wojo is in any danger this year. Even if we miss the NCAAs, which I still think is about a 50/50 proposition (looking at that 0-21 combined record for SJU/GT/DPU against other BE teams) the years Wojo has always been building toward were the next two. Now if we are a bubble team next year, he will be on the precipice. Miss the tourney in 2018 and 2019 and I think he could be replaced.
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I don't think Wojo is in any danger this year. Even if we miss the NCAAs, which I still think is about a 50/50 proposition (looking at that 0-21 combined record for SJU/GT/DPU against other BE teams) the years Wojo has always been building toward were the next two. Now if we are a bubble team next year, he will be on the precipice. Miss the tourney in 2018 and 2019 and I think he could be replaced.
The problem with this is that the cabinet is likely relatively empty at that point as we would assume players havent developed and incoming recruits would leave. If they don't make the NCAA next year he should be gone. That said...I don't think that will be an issue.
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Laughable.
I don't actually believe that statement, just a poke at all the insane "wins no matta" and the like posts on this board.
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The problem with this is that the cabinet is likely relatively empty at that point as we would assume players havent developed and incoming recruits would leave. If they don't make the NCAA next year he should be gone. That said...I don't think that will be an issue.
From a roster perspective, the cabinet will always be empty for a new hire, especially if they approve immediate eligibility for all transfers. At any point going forward, we should assume that any coach we hire will require a complete and total rebuild. So anyone thinking "I want to replace Wojo with X", make damn sure you are content with the idea of Coach X building this thing from the ground up, Tom Crean at Indiana style.
That's part of the reason for my list in the "Making a Trade" thread. I'm confident Dan Hurley could succeed at this level. McDevitt has proven he can keep elevating win totals despite losing players. Wardle has shown he can do a rebuild twice. If you are counting on the new coach winning with what's here, that's simply a losing gambit, especially in the long term.
As much as Wojo was left with an empty roster (and anyone arguing otherwise is lying) that is going to be the norm for anyone now.
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The only place that Wojo's seat is hot is on internet forums. And so many of the young guys and incoming recruits chose MU BECAUSE of Wojo that if he were fired, the next coach's rebuild would be more daunting than Wojo's.
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The problem with this is that the cabinet is likely relatively empty at that point as we would assume players havent developed and incoming recruits would leave. If they don't make the NCAA next year he should be gone. That said...I don't think that will be an issue.
Yup...always next year.
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Yup...always next year.
Last year we made the tournament, yes?
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I believe that Wojo's seat remains frigid. Not on the Board of course, but where it matters.
There has always been a desire on this board to get a coach who is willing to stay here long term. Not jump at the first well paying Power 5 job that opens up. That means if the coach has a great year, the administration and the fan base want the coach to show MU some loyalty and stick around. The other side of that is when the coach has a down year, the expectation of the coach is the fan base and administration will show some loyalty and not run him out of town.
Wojo isn't at the point where he can be considered our "long term" coach but I think the consensus is we would like to have SOMEONE fill that role sometime. I don't think we can be calling for his head or request that the heat be turned up on him after a bad loss, bad season, or bad post-game presser in his tenure...yet. As others smarter than me have persistently noted, we need to see the results from next season and 2019-2020. If next season unfolds in a less than acceptable manner, turn the burner up. If that persists into the following season, then it's time to get serious about moving on. (And yes, there's a sixth year in there to make up for the Henry Ellenson wasted season and, to a lesser extent, surprise transfers.)
Just my 2 cents worth.
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This board would have run a number of high caliber coaches out of town. It's quite amusing.
No, I am not saying wojo is defined as high caliber.
But many coaches weren't in their first few years.
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Wojo’s seat is as Ice Cold as a Miller High Life left outside on a January night in Milwaukee.
Tough three game stretch. We came up short. Call next game. That job won’t be decided over three games.
Mmmmmm...
(http://www.collectiblesonlinedaily.com/photo/192278645374_1.jpg)
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The only place that Wojo's seat is hot is on internet forums. And so many of the young guys and incoming recruits chose MU BECAUSE of Wojo that if he were fired, the next coach's rebuild would be more daunting than Wojo's.
I'm firmly in the camp of giving Wojo at least one more year and I'm sure the MU admin is not considering a change now. That said, I don't see any harm in some fans questioning his performance and future at MU. Trump will be our president for at least three more years, should we shut down any criticism of him by stating "his seat is ice cold and he's not going anywhere for three more years"?
Just curious, seems to me if a coach like Wojo was so dynamic and successful that his departure would gut a program we would be hearing a lot of rumors of him for other "bigger" jobs, no? I think the one thing everyone on this board can agree on (well maybe also the day of the week) is that no other school is looking to hire our coach.
Also, should the day ever come that MU's admin comes to the conclusion that Wojo is not the man for the job I hope they don't fall hostage to the cowardly mentality of "who can we get that is better?" or "if we fire him, all the players will leave". MU is a world class institution and Wojo and the players should feel honored to represent this great university and so will anyone who is fortunate enough to be part of the men's basketball program in the future.
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We all know the future, right?
As Brew has noted, it's still a 50/50 shot for the NCAAs this year (yay, math!).
Zero chance Wojo is fired in 2 months, however our record this year.
2019 MU will have more experience, and new recruits. We'll be north of 9 wins in the BE next year, which means MU is in the NCAAs next year = Wojo not fired in 2019.
2020, MU should again be north of 9 BE wins, and NCAA again. No coach gets fired the year he makes the NCAAs.
2021 is the season to watch.
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We all know the future, right?
As Brew has noted, it's still a 50/50 shot for the NCAAs this year (yay, math!).
Zero chance Wojo is fired in 2 months, however our record this year.
2019 MU will have more experience, and new recruits. We'll be north of 9 wins in the BE next year, which means MU is in the NCAAs next year = Wojo not fired in 2019.
2020, MU should again be north of 9 BE wins, and NCAA again. No coach gets fired the year he makes the NCAAs.
2021 is the season to watch.
I'll sign up for this. Maybe a Sweet Sixteen in there too?
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If our defense doesn't improve we won't be north of 9 wins.
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I’ll take any sort of stability over changing coaches every other year like this board wants. Do we really want another rebuild from nothing after what we’ve just been through? Name me a coach we can get that will turn it around in 2 years?
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Not including tangents, there are 2 topics here.
1. Is Wojo's seat getting warmer?
2. Should Wojo's seat be getting warmer?
The answers to the latter question are based upon opinions. "We are underachieving, so he should be on the hot seat" ... "He sucks, so he should be fired" ... "We should give him at least until this next recruiting class has a couple of years to play" ... "The cupboard was empty and he's just now building something, so firing him now and starting over would be counterproductive" ... etc. Even if one thinks his or her opinion is based upon sound reasoning, the answers are subjective.
The answers to No. 1 are fact-based. People who are plugged in to how university brass think say Wojo's seat is not even the tiniest bit warm.
So the disgruntled among us can opine and whine that Wojo should be in big trouble, but that's all it is: opining and letting off steam because Wojo simply isn't on the hot seat. And yes, the same people would have been whining about K in his early days at Duke, about Wright in his early days at Nova, etc, etc.
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Here's Coach K on trying to motivate his team against St. John's:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/article198288464.html?#emlnl=Sports_Newsletter&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=
“It was disgusting, really,” Krzyzewski said of Duke’s play. “ No matter what we said, nothing worked with our team – until the last eight minutes, and then we had a chance to win.
“You can say ‘why?’ Look, I do not know why. I can tell you that that’s not the group that I have coached all year. And they were a very frustrating group to coach today, because they did not respond to anything.”
Bottom line:
One of the greatest coaches in the history of college sports couldn't motivate his team in its game against a team that is winless in Big East play. Just thought it was interesting in the context of discussing other coaches.
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I figured now that the dumpster fire that Buzz left has been extinguished by Wojo that we'd be a tourney team.
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If our defense doesn't improve we won't be north of 9 wins.
Our defense wasn't the problem against Providence.
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Hay PR Nightmare, I have a close friend, former co-worker, FEMA manager in Puerto Rico, we have no idea how bad it is. Peace
Who?
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Our defense wasn't the problem against Providence.
I believe that the disappointing losses lately have been the fault of the offense moreso than the D
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I know this is a long string of posts but I don't think Wojo's seat is hot.
I do think we have some problems. After four years of Wojo, we're still playing way too much "Hero Ball" as its called. First it was Matt Carlino (who probably had to be the hero), then Henry Ellenson, then Katlin Reinhardt and now the Rowsey/Howard combo.
Our opponents have figured us out. Let's em score inside if you must, but Marquette is not going to win if you contain the "3" ball. The fact that Rowsey has been in a slump during the past few games is indicative of that trend.
Our guys still don't have the confidence and moxey it takes to make me feel good when we're down a few and backed against the wall. That's coaching, pure and simple. You have to make your guys feel invincible and simply put, we're not there yet. They may not be invincible, but they have to feel that way and our guards have to know the (a), (b) and (c) options when they need a basket, one of which is not to find Rowsey and have him hurl one up from mid-court.
Next year, we hope we have the talent and depth to beat someone from anywhere. If we don't, something is really wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, on paper, we should be good for 12 or 13 Big East wins based on the advanced billing for our talent next year (and the hoopla surrounding our new arena). If we don't get that, there should be a lot of questions asked about the state of our program.
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So much awesome in one GIF:
- are they playing at some sort of St. Patty's Valentine gig?
- should the bassist get immediate help for his scoliosis or is that necklace deceptively heavy?
- striped ascot. bold choice but it works.
- "are we singing backup or doing equestrian training tonight?"...."i don't know but where your knee high boots just in case"
i have more but i'll stop
That is a video clip from one of the biggest hits of the early 2000's. Don't tell me you have never seen it before.
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I believe that the disappointing losses lately have been the fault of the offense moreso than the D
Markus and Rowsey are way too easy to disrupt with length. Everyone in the league has length, so at worst our opponents have to weather the storm from one of them. Sometimes, like Howard at Providence, that's too much. More often than not, however, a good team can overcome one good performer.
Against Providence, we allowed 1.04 ppp. That should be good enough with our offense. But when they aren't executing, even good defense isn't enough.
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That is a video clip from one of the biggest hits of the early 2000's. Don't tell me you have never seen it before.
To my recollection, I have never seen it. Early 2000's I was deep into RATM, NIN, RHCP with a bunch of Aimee Mann, RadioHead and Lenny Kravitz just to balance things off. Who gave us this pure gold funk?
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To my recollection, I have never seen it. Early 2000's I was deep into RATM, NIN, RHCP with a bunch of Aimee Mann, RadioHead and Lenny Kravitz just to balance things off. Who gave us this pure gold funk?
OutKast!
https://youtu.be/PWgvGjAhvIw
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Not including tangents, there are 2 topics here.
1. Is Wojo's seat getting warmer?
2. Should Wojo's seat be getting warmer?
The answers to the latter question are based upon opinions. "We are underachieving, so he should be on the hot seat" ... "He sucks, so he should be fired" ... "We should give him at least until this next recruiting class has a couple of years to play" ... "The cupboard was empty and he's just now building something, so firing him now and starting over would be counterproductive" ... etc. Even if one thinks his or her opinion is based upon sound reasoning, the answers are subjective.
The answers to No. 1 are fact-based. People who are plugged in to how university brass think say Wojo's seat is not even the tiniest bit warm.
So the disgruntled among us can opine and whine that Wojo should be in big trouble, but that's all it is: opining and letting off steam because Wojo simply isn't on the hot seat. And yes, the same people would have been whining about K in his early days at Duke, about Wright in his early days at Nova, etc, etc.
Phenomenal post!
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This board would have run a number of high caliber coaches out of town. It's quite amusing.
No, I am not saying wojo is defined as high caliber.
But many coaches weren't in their first few years.
Thank You Thank You Thank You!
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http://store.hermanmiller.com/office/office-chairs/aeron-chair/100069170.html?lang=en_US&mrkgcl=583&mrkgadid=3200073509&rkg_id=h-61e7bd26262f94109ef3b67ffb7834bc_t-1518011998&adpos=1o2&creative=177757806673&device=c&matchtype=&network=s&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9dO6o_uT2QIVnrXACh3d4gTIEAYYAiABEgIK2vD_BwE
Hot or cold, should it be this one? Wouldn't all of the players and coaches be more comfortable in this?