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Author Topic: Wojo's seat  (Read 64486 times)

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2017, 10:04:28 AM »
With this season likely heading for March sadness in one form or another .. it's all about future prospects, long and short.   Changing head coaches always set a program back a few years, maybe more, so short term is almost always uncomfortable at best.

Something does need to change, though, as we're just treading water as the ~70-100th best team in the country which amounts to bottom feeders in the Big East.

So how do you get a new system without the massive back-step of changing head coaches?

New assistant coach(es.)  In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.

MarquetteDano

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2017, 10:16:40 AM »

New assistant coach(es.)  In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.

This.  People ask what should be done short of Wojo getting fired.  We should be demanding that one of his coaching buddies leave and be replaced by a veteran defensive minded coach.

hairy worthen

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2017, 10:18:25 AM »
random old guys anonymously demanding excellence on an internet forum is how the program will become excellent?????

That's bizarre.

Just in case you are right, I DEMAND EXCELLENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that's not what I was saying  and you know it. what's bizarre is random posters twisting other posters words so they can rip on them.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2017, 10:25:02 AM »
Had a conversation with a friend in Chicago who is close to the administration and a few of the significant boosters of the program. Here are a few of his takes.

Wojo has 100% support from all stakeholders. Everyone like the way Wojo conducts his business and are happy with the trajectory of the program. The tourney appearance last year was viewed as a significant validation of his hiring.

That said, he stated that while everyone is happy with the trajectory of the program he does not get the sense that everyone is satisfied with the current performance for different reasons.

The administration's desire for a upper level program is based on a return on investment view point and he said that has been the motivation for years prior to Wojo coming to MU. It's not only a return on dollars but also as a way to elevate the university's public profile to advance academics and the Catholic based mission of MU.

Booster's share the goals of the administration but also, like most here, just love MU basketball and want a winner.

His said, in his opinion, Wojo is very safe right now. He also said that the notion that Wojo's job is safe regardless of wins and losses is "ridiculous". He said the boosters he knows feel that based upon the investment in the program that success at schools like Xavier, Nova, Gonzaga, ND, etc. can be attained at MU.

I should mention, he does not claim to know everyone or everything but in my opinion he's more dialed in than the average fan, like me. His insight may confirm or contradict some opinions or actual knowledge of some posters here. I thought I'd pass it on for fans here to believe or dismiss.

burger

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2017, 10:30:47 AM »
With all this being said......

We should be superior to Seton Hall and Providence......continually......

Georgetown and St. Johns an equal to. (minimally)....They will get their "footings" back at some point......

And there is no excuse that we should be worse than Butler, Crieghton, and most importantly Xavier.....

We spend more money on basketball than any other school in the Beast!

79Warrior

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2017, 10:37:03 AM »
Who ever said it was football? That’s weird.

I don’t really care what other coaches did with other programs. Obviously different situations.

Thankfully you aren’t the one making decisions around here. If coaches needed to make big splashes by year 3 of their coaching careers some of the greatest coaches in the history of sports would’ve never made it to year 4. Whether you want to be realistic or not, rebuilds take time.

My point is rebuilding a basketball team is way easier than football. A handful of good players and you could have a competitive team on the floor. By year four I would have hoped we would be competing in the upper half of the BE.

I actually care what other coaches are doing because that is a barometer of how our guys should be doing. If you did not care how other coaches are doing relative to ours, Dukiet would still be here.

I am not advocating nor have ever said we should get rid of Wojo. Not expecting a big splash either. But I am disappointed with the balance of his teams. At the least, by year four how about we have a real point guard?

bilsu

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2017, 10:55:00 AM »
With all this being said......

We should be superior to Seton Hall and Providence......continually......

Georgetown and St. Johns an equal to. (minimally)....They will get their "footings" back at some point......

And there is no excuse that we should be worse than Butler, Crieghton, and most importantly Xavier.....

We spend more money on basketball than any other school in the Beast!
Why?
Seton Hall is close to New York. They are all small Catholic Schools. There is nothing that gives MU an advantage, except that we probably spend more money. Our spending is likely to decrease, because our attendance is falling. History does not matter much. How many prospective recruits' parents are even old enough to have watched MU win its national title in 1977. Basically, all of us here have a built in bias towards MU, which means nothing in the real world. I am sure Providence fans think they should be better than MU.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2017, 10:56:57 AM »
New assistant coach(es.)  In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.

I agree with this.  Truthfully if my butt was on the line for the success of the program - I would have done it last year.

To 82s question - I will be going to less games this year.  Still do one in MKE but won't do any of the northeast games this year. Bball is one of my primary connections to MU as an institution, so not saying my donation will change but where I spend my free time does impact where I place donations (typically).

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2017, 10:59:38 AM »
He ain't stone cold and he ain't flaming out...but the front burner is on.  New arena, people. That will be Wojo's and Lovell's vote since they are inexorably tied.

If MU is charging Duke driven pricing, you best damn deliver a demand-driven experience. If MU is just assuming the base will come along, I think the fall from hubris will be a lesson learned. With the change up of the ticket priority points system to a seat license program, it will be easier for fans to take their personal treasure elsewhere. In the past, it was easier just to reup and hope for next year. Not so for next.

bilsu

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2017, 11:02:37 AM »
With this season likely heading for March sadness in one form or another .. it's all about future prospects, long and short.   Changing head coaches always set a program back a few years, maybe more, so short term is almost always uncomfortable at best.

Something does need to change, though, as we're just treading water as the ~70-100th best team in the country which amounts to bottom feeders in the Big East.

So how do you get a new system without the massive back-step of changing head coaches?

New assistant coach(es.)  In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.
I think the landscape is changing. When Wojo became coach he was able to recruit in Wisconsin, because he was new and Bo was old. I felt the last two years Gard had the advantage, because he was the new kid on the block with a program riding the high of two straight final fours. Gard being able to take UW to two straight sweet 16's also gave him an advantage in recruiting Wisconsin players. Look what is happening now. Gard was not able to take Joey away from MU and Herro decommitted. His team got destroyed by a less than steller Ohio St. team at home last night. Watching that game made me think that it is more likely that Gard gets fired before Wojo.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2017, 11:24:44 AM »
With this season likely heading for March sadness in one form or another .. it's all about future prospects, long and short.   Changing head coaches always set a program back a few years, maybe more, so short term is almost always uncomfortable at best.

Something does need to change, though, as we're just treading water as the ~70-100th best team in the country which amounts to bottom feeders in the Big East.

So how do you get a new system without the massive back-step of changing head coaches?

New assistant coach(es.)  In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.

To be fair, Rob Judson was brought in this past off season as Wojo's Special Assistant. Long-term assistant, prior head coaching experience. Stan and Brett have been strong on the recruiting trail. I think your key point is defensive system. Wojo has installed the Duke defense (with MU talent) that even K has moved away from.

The "Defense Problem" is on Wojo, frankly. I yearn for a Wojo team to play Marquette defense.

WarriorDad

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2017, 11:30:38 AM »
This sounds like something a DePaul fan would say.

My expectations for this year were NIT.  Froling is the wild card, now the transfer a new wild card.  If a major injury happens, then everything changes.

Next year looks great if no one decides they are NBA ready when they are not.  Morrow is a stud.  Second Hauser comes in. Brendan Bailey will surprise you all.  The current freshmen with a year under their belt, Ike will also have a year of practice.  We should be really good next year.  This is a mini-rebuild year.  Losing your center in Luke, a 5th year Grad Student Reinhardt, Jajuan Johnson, a senior in Duane Wilson, then the transfer midseason is going to take time. We are talented, but thin and undersized.   Your expectations were obviously much higher than mine, but that doesn't mean they are at DePaul level.

Hot seat?  Not with next year's talent on the horizon.  We stubbed our toe one time this season, and that was yesterday with major foul trouble.
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brewcity77

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2017, 11:33:51 AM »
New assistant coach(es.)  In our case .. Solid defensive schemers, who can teach players how to execute it within their abilities and at least get to mediocre defensive levels.

Not sure how many people realize it, but I do think Wojo has already tried to address this. He brought Rob Judson on this past August.

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/080117aaa.html

Judson was previously head coach at Northern Illinois and has been an assistant more recently under Tim Jankovich at Illinois State and Tom Crean at Indiana. I'm not sure if he's the defensive specialist we need, but he is the veteran coach (coaching at the collegiate level since the late 1980s) that many seem to be clamoring for.

I realize that the results might not be there yet, but I think what everyone wants is something the staff is already trying to address. I think the simple truth is that nothing outside maybe bringing on MU82 (who I assume has experience teaching height) will turn Rowsey and Howard into good defenders. It's really frustrating. Our 2PFG defense is a black hole of miserableness. It's easy to drive on us and our bigs are not great shot-blockers when drivers do get through. Yes, we are just outside the top-100 in block percentage, but a ton of that is down to a 6'3" freshman guard who accounts for 31.3% of our blocks.

I hate to say it, but I think this year might be a replay of the back half of last year where our entire goal is to simply outscore the opposition. We'll have more length next year with Froling, Morrow, Joey, Bailey, and Eke available. Hopefully we can land a grad transfer point guard with more size and defensive acumen than Rowsey, and Markus will be the only guy we really have to hide on defense. But for now, we need Rowsey and Howard for the offense to function, and our defense will suffer because of their presence on the floor.
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GGGG

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2017, 11:41:06 AM »
what he said. 

and there is nothing wrong  with goose and 4ever demanding excellence.  that's how you become excellent.

LOL.  No.  Fans demanding excellence on a message board is not how MU becomes excellent.

GGGG

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2017, 11:43:39 AM »
Had a conversation with a friend in Chicago who is close to the administration and a few of the significant boosters of the program. Here are a few of his takes.

Wojo has 100% support from all stakeholders. Everyone like the way Wojo conducts his business and are happy with the trajectory of the program. The tourney appearance last year was viewed as a significant validation of his hiring.

That said, he stated that while everyone is happy with the trajectory of the program he does not get the sense that everyone is satisfied with the current performance for different reasons.

The administration's desire for a upper level program is based on a return on investment view point and he said that has been the motivation for years prior to Wojo coming to MU. It's not only a return on dollars but also as a way to elevate the university's public profile to advance academics and the Catholic based mission of MU.

Booster's share the goals of the administration but also, like most here, just love MU basketball and want a winner.

His said, in his opinion, Wojo is very safe right now. He also said that the notion that Wojo's job is safe regardless of wins and losses is "ridiculous". He said the boosters he knows feel that based upon the investment in the program that success at schools like Xavier, Nova, Gonzaga, ND, etc. can be attained at MU.

I should mention, he does not claim to know everyone or everything but in my opinion he's more dialed in than the average fan, like me. His insight may confirm or contradict some opinions or actual knowledge of some posters here. I thought I'd pass it on for fans here to believe or dismiss.


There is zero doubt that everyone involved, including Wojo, expects winning at the highest levels.  Boosters, administration, fans, etc.

The question is how much patience should people have?  Two years after this one seems reasonable to me given the pieces in place. 

Disco Hippie

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2017, 12:54:07 PM »
Agree with this. The jury is adjourned this year. Next year is a different story

Disco concurs

WhiteTrash

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2017, 01:07:09 PM »

There is zero doubt that everyone involved, including Wojo, expects winning at the highest levels.  Boosters, administration, fans, etc.

The question is how much patience should people have?  Two years after this one seems reasonable to me given the pieces in place.

I agree two more years is prudent given the prospect of the incoming players and assuming the level of play improves with said talent. I really like the freshmen so far and the fact that they were not top 50 recruits is a testament to the staff being able to find top level talent that is not on everyone's radar.

I'll quibble slightly with your assertion that Wojo "expects winning at the highest level"; not that it false but that it is a bit of a straw man assertion. Of course he does. He would not be here today (or on Coach K's staff for years) if he did not. I believe our attorney friends would say that this is a "stipulated fact". Thus I do not feel anyone should feel the need to defend Wojo based upon his desire to win. People fail at endeavors to succeed even though they have poured their hearts and souls into them, myself included.

Not now but possibly in the future MU may come to the conclusion that Wojo, while a terrific human being and a proven top level assistant coach, may not be a high major head coach.

muwarrior69

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2017, 01:27:02 PM »
The signing of Henry Ellenson along with his brother Wally had everyone on this board ecstatic. Who could pass up a 5 star recruit. However I believe signing Henry has set the program back at least a year, perhaps more. I am willing to give Wojo two more seasons to make us at least competitive with other teams in the top of the BE. However, I am concerned with the mid-year transfers which cannot but hurt the program in the long term. Like some here have stated what the program needs is stability not turmoil.

willie warrior

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2017, 01:38:35 PM »
Wojo’s seat is air-conditioned.  Next year will be the year he makes it or does not. Until then, carry on.
If his seat is air conditioned then that blower should be pushed way up his kielbasa.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2017, 01:42:47 PM »
If his seat is air conditioned then that blower should be pushed way up his kielbasa.

No Love Woody, Willie?

Disco Hippie

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2017, 02:13:45 PM »
Why?
Seton Hall is close to New York. They are all small Catholic Schools. There is nothing that gives MU an advantage, except that we probably spend more money. Our spending is likely to decrease, because our attendance is falling. History does not matter much. How many prospective recruits' parents are even old enough to have watched MU win its national title in 1977. Basically, all of us here have a built in bias towards MU, which means nothing in the real world. I am sure Providence fans think they should be better than MU.

Even with our falling attendance, MU has substantially more support for its men's basketball program (both form an administrative and fan support perspective) than Seton Hall and St. John's combined.  Neither program gets the cream of the crop of NYC area recruits nor have they for a very long time......not since Lou Carnesecca / PJ Carlessimo were their respective head coaches.   I live in the NYC metro area so I have some perspective.  Unlike MU, Both of those schools have substantial commuter populations.....perhaps 50% and student fan support suffers significantly as a result.   Seton Hall plays their home games in Newark which is a good 35 minutes away from their campus and St. John's plays half their home games at MSG,  which admittedly has some advantages but because it takes almost an hour to get to MSG  from their campus in Queens via public transportation,  it's not their students who typically attend those games,  just college basketball enthusiasts generally.  St John's' on campus facility  where they play the other half of their games is akin to a large high school gym .   Anyone that lives in the greater NYC metro area knows that Syracuse is the real college basketball king in NYC  despite their campus being five hours away from NYC proper.   Villanova is a close second given Philadelphia's proximity to NYC and UCONN a distant third, but the point I'm making is Syracuse, Villanova and UCONN all have a much larger followings in the NYC area than Seton Hall or Saint John's.   Marquette's fan support could drop by 30% and it would still be more than either of those two schools combined.   All that said,  I agree that having more administrative and fan support doesn't give us a right to be better than either of those programs in any given season, but it should.   At least in theory.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 02:26:34 PM by Disco Hippie »

NotAnAlum

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2017, 05:20:58 PM »
The signing of Henry Ellenson along with his brother Wally had everyone on this board ecstatic. Who could pass up a 5 star recruit. However I believe signing Henry has set the program back at least a year, perhaps more. I am willing to give Wojo two more seasons to make us at least competitive with other teams in the top of the BE. However, I am concerned with the mid-year transfers which cannot but hurt the program in the long term. Like some here have stated what the program needs is stability not turmoil.
I was thinking this same thing.  Wally and Henry consumed 3 years of scholarships for which we got a NBA guy for one year when we didn't have the other talent to win.  If those ships had been used on simply high major freshman recruits (like Morrow for instance) They'd be upperclassmen now and we wouldn't be rebuilding in year 4.  Then if Traci had stayed we'd have a junior distributor type PG right now and our glaring weakness that we all agree has to be filled by a Grad transfer next year would already be on the team.  If anything Wojo gambled to win now more than he should have in hindsight.  So certainly he gets 2 more years.  I really hope that we'll see a team where guys are willing to stay here for 4 years whatever their role is.

hairy worthen

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2017, 05:22:26 PM »
LOL.  No.  Fans demanding excellence on a message board is not how MU becomes excellent.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? Read my post and find where it says fans demanding excellence makes mu excellent. In general, in life, striving for excellence creates excellence. settling for mediocrity makes you mediocre. Stop parsing posters words and then criticizing them for what you claim they say.


Jay Bee

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2017, 06:03:37 PM »
I was thinking this same thing.  Wally and Henry consumed 3 years of scholarships for which we got a NBA guy for one year when we didn't have the other talent to win.  If those ships had been used on simply high major freshman recruits (like Morrow for instance) They'd be upperclassmen now and we wouldn't be rebuilding in year 4.  Then if Traci had stayed we'd have a junior distributor type PG right now and our glaring weakness that we all agree has to be filled by a Grad transfer next year would already be on the team.  If anything Wojo gambled to win now more than he should have in hindsight.  So certainly he gets 2 more years.  I really hope that we'll see a team where guys are willing to stay here for 4 years whatever their role is.

I don't agree with any of this. Wojo would have been an idiot to decline brining Henry in. And why should we expect Marquette to the exception to the rule (re: frequency of transfers)?
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Goose

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Re: Wojo's seat
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2017, 06:05:12 PM »
Getting Henry was a big win for Wojo. I think it was a great get and well worth the effort.

 

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