NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18

[Jockey]

But you don't have possession until you complete the catch, and you don't complete the catch until you fall to the ground and have control.

That is not correct at all. There are dozens of catches in every single game that are completed before the runner falls to the ground and has control.

I think you probably just mis-stated what you were intending to say and you meant catches where the receiver goes down right after he "catches" the ball and, so, must show control.

But I'm glad they got both calls right last night. We could easily have seen both of those overturned this season.

[GooooMarquette]

Wentz. Without a doubt. The timetable for his return may result in Foles (or another #2) beginning the season as the starter but Wentz is their guy.

You are likely right, but it makes you wonder how long the Eagles can hang onto Foles.  Not many Super Bowl MVPs like riding the bench....

[wadesworld]

I'm not sure how the patriots do it, but I'd like to see how Rodgers operates in a system where he can stand immobile in the pocket and survey the field and almost never seem to have any pressure on him.

Because Tom Brady gets the ball out on time and isn't looking for a home run every play, is willing to take the underneath routes/what the defense is giving him, sticks to runs when they're called, and is willing to throw an incompletion rather than a hit/sack.

[Jockey]

Because Tom Brady gets the ball out on time and isn't looking for a home run every play, is willing to take the underneath routes/what the defense is giving him, sticks to runs when they're called, and is willing to throw an incompletion rather than a hit/sack.

I think you are being a little harsh as Brady clearly has more time in the pocket....

but, overall, your points are well taken.

[WarriorDad]

RIP.  With every article update this becomes more tragic.  Young NFL player did the right thing, lost his life anyway.  New details on the man who killed him are troubling.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/05/americas/colts-player-edwin-jackson-killed/index.html

[GGGG]

RIP.  With every article update this becomes more tragic.  Young NFL player did the right thing, lost his life anyway.  New details on the man who killed him are troubling.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/05/americas/colts-player-edwin-jackson-killed/index.html

Agreed.  It sure is troubling that people continue to drink and drive.

[jesmu84]

Agreed.  It sure is troubling that people continue to drink and drive.

This. Drinking and driving was the problem.

[lawdog77]

This. Drinking and driving was the problem.

my only question is whose car was the POS driving?  If it was his,  I eish some liability should fall on the seller of the vehicle. Drinking and driving sucks

[GGGG]

my only question is whose car was the POS driving?  If it was his,  I eish some liability should fall on the seller of the vehicle. Drinking and driving sucks

The seller of the vehicle?  Why should he/she face any liability if it was a legal sale?  A seller isn't required to check to see if the buyer has a valid driver's license. 

[lawdog77]

I said I wish there would be some..An illegal with a prior DUI, no license, and no insurance....what could possibly go wrong...even take out the illegal portion,

[Pakuni]

This. Drinking and driving was the problem.

This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.

[GGGG]

I said I wish there would be some..An illegal with a prior DUI, no license, and no insurance....what could possibly go wrong...even take out the illegal portion,

So it's up to the seller of a car to make sure that the buyer is in the US legally, has a good driving record, a license and insurance?

That's ridiculous. 

[lawdog77]

So it's up to the seller of a car to make sure that the buyer is in the US legally, has a good driving record, a license and insurance?

That's ridiculous.

why not?  You are putting the equivalent of a loaded handgun into someone's hands. A simple BMV check would do the trick.

[MU82]

This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.

Can't argue with that.

[GGGG]

This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.

Agreed.

[lawdog77]

Can't argue with that.

I could argue with that...but I would be wrong...+10000

[CTWarrior]

That's the thing about using the GOAT label in any team sport, especially one in which the guys who get considered for that label - mostly QBs and a few RBs - are so dependent on others around him.

I'm not going to revisit the whole Brady-Rodgers thing again, but until Rodgers has more postseason success, he simply can't be viewed the way Brady is by those who judge these things. I know Rodgers fans don't like that, but them's the facts.

If the Jets drafted Tom Brady way back when, you may never have heard of him.  Football is such a team game that it is almost impossible to separate the player from the team.  Brady is no doubt a great, great QB, but I don't know how you fairly compare him to Johnny Unitas, Otto Graham, Joe Montana, John Elway, etc.

[GooooMarquette]

This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.

Very well said.

[jesmu84]

Lol, Colts.

McDaniels doesn't get another chance after this, right?

[Sir Lawrence]

Lol, Colts.

McDaniels doesn't get another chance after this, right?

Incredible. 

Looks like McDaniels is eyeing that takeover after the hooded one leaves in 2019. It's been rumored that Kraft's son loves him and dislikes Hoody.

[GGGG]

Lol, Colts.

McDaniels doesn't get another chance after this, right?

He'll be the next coach at NE, perhaps as soon as 2019.  Rumors were that Belichick was contemplating retirement.  Wonder if NE would have won if he would have.

[nyg]

He'll be the next coach at NE, perhaps as soon as 2019.  Rumors were that Belichick was contemplating retirement.  Wonder if NE would have won if he would have.

This and concerns about Luck's shoulder not being healed. 

[WarriorDad]

This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.

My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent.  She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat.  We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border.  She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry?       My answer was yes.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?

My answer was no.  I would feel furious.  That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support.  It comes down to incremental loss of life.  This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be.  The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country.  It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.

Thank you for hearing my opinion.

[Silkk the Shaka]

My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent.  She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat.  We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border.  She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry?       My answer was yes.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?

My answer was no.  I would feel furious.  That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support.  It comes down to incremental loss of life.  This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be.  The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country.  It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.

Thank you for hearing my opinion.

Chicos?

[MU82]

Brady is no doubt a great, great QB, but I don't know how you fairly compare him to Johnny Unitas, Otto Graham, Joe Montana, John Elway, etc.

The same could be said of any basketball, hockey or football player.

So you go with the information you have.

By the time he retires, Brady will have most notable passing records, playoff appearances every season of his long career, deep playoff runs most seasons, and at least 5 championships.

Maybe the Jets would have been contenders every year if they had Brady, maybe not. We'll never know.

How many NFL titles did the Patriots win without Brady? (The answer is less than 1.)

I know people who swear Wilt was a better basketball player than Jordan and who think Messier was a more valuable player than Gretzky. Maybe they're right ... but I'm sticking with the best facts as I interpret them.

It's fine if others disagree with me about Brady, but they better bring more than, "Yeah, but just put any great QB in that system and he wins at least 5 Super Bowls." Because that's only an opinion, too. Absolutely unprovable.